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Speaker 1: My welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, the production

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Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio. Hey are you welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind? My name is Robert Lamb and

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe McCormick, and today we bring you ill omens

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Speaker 1: from the planet Jupiter. Today is gonna be the first

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Speaker 1: of a two part series where we're going to be

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Speaker 1: looking at the planet Jupiter and how Jupiter interacts with

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Speaker 1: some some specific mythology about the wars before the world

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Speaker 1: we know, and how that also relates to some very

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Speaker 1: interesting scientific theories concerning the fate of the planets in

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Speaker 1: our solar system and in star systems beyond throughout the galaxy.

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Speaker 1: But I start I wanted to start off today by

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Speaker 1: talking about the belief that the motion of the planets

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Speaker 1: can have dire effects on the fate of creatures here

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Speaker 1: on Earth. Of course, this is a long time tenant

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Speaker 1: of many of the world's different traditions of astrology. But

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Speaker 1: like if you read astrology today, Rob, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you've had this experience, there's little sense in in

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Speaker 1: astrology today that like the planets are literally doing physical

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Speaker 1: things to you, like they're reaching down with I don't know,

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Speaker 1: with like gravity or winds or something to have physical

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Speaker 1: effects on your life. Rather, the mechanism that is believed

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Speaker 1: to to link the movement of the planets or the

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Speaker 1: constellations or whatever uh to your fate is is a

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Speaker 1: more obscure one. It's a kind of like invisible almost

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Speaker 1: kind of young gian um anti causal relationship. Would you

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Speaker 1: would you agree? Yeah, yeah, I would think so. And

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Speaker 1: I mean not that I spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: in the astrology sections, right, but sometimes people have believed

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Speaker 1: that the movement of the planets or the constellations have

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Speaker 1: more direct physical effects on the Earth that can absolutely

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Speaker 1: influence the fate of people or the fate of nations.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to talk about one example that we

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Speaker 1: discussed way back when we did an episode on miasthma theory.

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Speaker 1: And I remember the miasma theory was a it was

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Speaker 1: a theory of disease that predated modern germ theory. It

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Speaker 1: was the idea that disease was often was spread by

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Speaker 1: like bad vapors or foul smelling odors, winds that went

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Speaker 1: from you know, that that might come up from the

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Speaker 1: earth or down from heaven and would bring the plague

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Speaker 1: or would bring malaria or something like that. And so

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Speaker 1: the example I wanted to look at was how in

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Speaker 1: the year thirty this was during the Second Plague pandemic,

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Speaker 1: when the Bubonic plague was sweeping through Europe. It was

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Speaker 1: devastating towns and cities. Of course, people had no understanding

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Speaker 1: of what was actually causing the disease. So King Philip

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Speaker 1: the sixth of France called in scholars from the medical

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Speaker 1: faculty of the University of Paris to see if they

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Speaker 1: could figure out what was going on. And the scholars

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Speaker 1: discussed things, they researched the matter, and they eventually came

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Speaker 1: back with an answer. And there answer was this. On

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Speaker 1: marchty five, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn had all lined up

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Speaker 1: in conjunction and it happened within the House of Aquarius.

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Speaker 1: And this was bad because to these scholars, uh, there

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Speaker 1: was a causative story to tell here. The conjunction of

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Speaker 1: Jupiter and Saturn to them was said to bring death

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Speaker 1: and calamity, and the conjunction of Jupiter and Mars was

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Speaker 1: said to bring pestilence on the breeze. And then this

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Speaker 1: was both of those things happening at the same time.

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Speaker 1: So here I'm gonna quote from a historian named ole

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Speaker 1: Jorgan Benedicto from his book The Black Death to thirteen

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Speaker 1: fifty three quote. In this astrological theory of epidemiology, Jupiter

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Speaker 1: was assumed to be warm and humid and to draw

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Speaker 1: malignant vapors both from the ground and from water, while

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Speaker 1: Mars was assumed to be hot and dry and therefore

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Speaker 1: had the capacity to kindle such malignant vapors into infective fire.

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Speaker 1: So under this theory, the movement of the planets would

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Speaker 1: be directly responsible for calamity here on Earth. Now, obviously,

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Speaker 1: scientists today do not put a lot of stock in

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Speaker 1: the motions of Jupiter and Mars in determining our fates,

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Speaker 1: but we did want to talk about some ways that

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Speaker 1: in a very real and material sense, local gas giants,

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Speaker 1: and in our case that would be Jupiter in particular.

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Speaker 1: We can also talk something about saturn Um can indeed

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Speaker 1: shape the fate of creatures dwelling on inner rocky planets.

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Speaker 1: And so that's what we're going to focus on for

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Speaker 1: the next couple of episodes. A number of scientific ideas

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Speaker 1: about ways that the planet Jupiter could like the Jupiter

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Speaker 1: of myth that we're going to talk about in a

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Speaker 1: few minutes, be a kind of cosmic destroyer or a

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Speaker 1: cosmic creator deciding the fortunes of earth bound mortals like us.

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Speaker 1: Without Jupiter, could we even exist? And how long could

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Speaker 1: life go on? So this should be a fun one.

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Speaker 1: If you know some of you out there, you might say, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not as crazy about the space episodes. And some

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Speaker 1: of you might say, well, you know, I'm not crazy.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy about the mythology episodes. Well we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: a little bit of mythology and a little bit of

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Speaker 1: of of space just spread throughout here. Um. So if

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Speaker 1: you hate both topics, I guess it's time to click off.

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Speaker 1: But I think we've heard from anybody who said that, No, no, no, Um,

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Speaker 1: I just I know, uh, some people are maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: it's my mom. I can't remember my mom that might

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Speaker 1: be less into the space episodes. Uh. I guess one

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Speaker 1: of the things about space, in talking about it is

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Speaker 1: I always feel that it is nice to have some

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Speaker 1: sort of human element there, uh, to to sort of

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Speaker 1: uh attach us to it. Now, A lot of times

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Speaker 1: that human element is just imagining if we were there,

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Speaker 1: you know, or or talk about how we might get

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Speaker 1: there one day and just sort of put it in

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Speaker 1: in in that kind of human context. And there's gonna,

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Speaker 1: I guess, be some of that here. But for the

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Speaker 1: most part, uh, the mythology provides that there's like the

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Speaker 1: mytholotical idea of who Jupiter is, and then there is

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Speaker 1: the planetary idea of what Jupiter the planet is, and

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Speaker 1: I it's ultimately a lot of fun to compare the two,

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Speaker 1: right though there might not be a lot of I

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Speaker 1: don't know, human interest or drama and looking just at

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Speaker 1: the icy ridges of Yapidus or something, right, but those

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Speaker 1: are some good icy ridges. But yeah, well, we'll try

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Speaker 1: to give you some some narrative context here when when

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Speaker 1: talking about the planets. So one of the first things

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Speaker 1: I wanted to mention was I was recently reading about

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Speaker 1: the etymology of the word Jupiter and came across something

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Speaker 1: that I did not know but I actually found really interesting. So,

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Speaker 1: of course, the English word Jupiter comes to English through Latin,

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Speaker 1: where it is a Jupiter spilt with an eye at

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Speaker 1: the beginning. A lot of Latin words that start with

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Speaker 1: a J in English actually start with an eye. There

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Speaker 1: was no j in Latin, and this of course, was

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Speaker 1: the name of the sky god and the chief of

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Speaker 1: the Roman pantheon, Jew Pitter or Jove or Upiter or Yove. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's why we refer to the moons of Jupiter as

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Speaker 1: the Jovian moons, right, synonymous in the Latin context. But so,

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Speaker 1: so I was reading about Okay, well what goes back

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Speaker 1: before that? It seems that the Latin word Upiter traces

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Speaker 1: back to a Proto Indo European route. And I apologize,

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Speaker 1: I don't know perfectly how to pronounce this, but it's

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Speaker 1: something like deuce fatter. And remember, of course Proto Indo

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Speaker 1: European is a prehistoric lost language, so nobody speaks it today.

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Speaker 1: In fact, nobody spoke it at any time that anybody

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Speaker 1: was writing anything down. So this is a This is

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Speaker 1: a prehistoric, pre written language that was the direct ancestor

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Speaker 1: of a huge number of languages spoken throughout Europe and

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Speaker 1: Asia today. It was probably originally spoken by people living

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Speaker 1: somewhere around modern day Ukraine or southern Russia. But it

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Speaker 1: is a lane which that has to be reconstructed by

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Speaker 1: linguists by looking at all these different languages around the

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Speaker 1: world and sort of tracing back their common roots in

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Speaker 1: this Proto Indo European language, do you Spotter would have

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Speaker 1: meant something like daylight sky father, and this would have

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Speaker 1: been the sky god of the reconstructed Proto Indo European religion. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you hear in that there, Juice Potter, you can

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Speaker 1: hear where we get Jupiter from that. But you can

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Speaker 1: also probably hear where the word Zeus can be derived

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Speaker 1: from that, right, Juice. And so again there is a

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Speaker 1: reconstructed form of this religion. We don't have any written

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Speaker 1: records of this religion. It existed before writing, but scholars

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Speaker 1: can conclude some things about it with pretty high confidence

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Speaker 1: by looking at what common elements appear in very geographically

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Speaker 1: separated religions that have a Proto Indo European linguistic root.

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Speaker 1: And this deity, this deuced patter one uh, it seems

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Speaker 1: to be very common to religions that are spread out

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Speaker 1: all over the place. For example, this name formulation also

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Speaker 1: appears in the Sanskrit rig Veda, where you get a

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Speaker 1: god named like Diaos or something roughly equivalent to that.

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Speaker 1: But in Roman religion in particular, this ancient sky god

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Speaker 1: tradition that of course had been channeled through the Greek

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Speaker 1: stories of Zeus. Remember, the the Roman mythology and the

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Speaker 1: Roman gods are extremely close copies of the of the

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Speaker 1: Greek gods, and there might be there are some appreciable differences,

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Speaker 1: but there is enormous overlap between them. So for all

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Speaker 1: practical purposes, Jupiter is Zeus. But in the Roman tradition,

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Speaker 1: this god, this sky god, this chief of the pantheon,

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Speaker 1: came to be associated with the planet Jupiter, which had

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Speaker 1: been known since ancient times since it could be seen

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Speaker 1: with the naked eye. And of course Jupiter, the planet

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Speaker 1: has mythological significance beyond the Roman connection. One example is

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Speaker 1: that in the ancient Babylonian religion, the planet Jupiter is

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Speaker 1: associated with another chief god, mar Duke, the chief god

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Speaker 1: of the city of Babylon Uh. He's the slayer hero

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Speaker 1: of the epic poem the Enuma a Leash, where there

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Speaker 1: is a primeval chaos monster named Tiamat, a sort of

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Speaker 1: saltwater dragon that arises from a previous generation of divine beings,

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Speaker 1: and then Tiamat threatens to destroy the younger generation of gods,

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Speaker 1: and mar Duke becomes sort of president of the God

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Speaker 1: Club by going out to slay Tiamat and the monsters

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Speaker 1: at her command. And there are some interesting parallels here,

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Speaker 1: because a mar duke like Zeus and like Jupiter is

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Speaker 1: sort of a sky god. Now, I think it's interesting

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Speaker 1: that the broad contours of this story in the Enuma

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Speaker 1: a Lesh have a very strong echo in Greco Roman mythology,

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Speaker 1: where Zeus, who would later become Jupiter to the Romans,

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Speaker 1: also has to overthrow and destroy a pre existent class

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Speaker 1: of divine beings to sort of pave the way for

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Speaker 1: the younger generation of gods to take power. And in

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Speaker 1: the Greek case, this earlier generation of divine beings were

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Speaker 1: the Titans. This conflict in Greek religion that pits Zeus

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Speaker 1: and the gods of Olympus versus the older beings of

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Speaker 1: the previous divine generation is sometimes called the Titanomicy. The

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Speaker 1: War of the Titans is what that means, Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: the Titanomicy is an example of what is sometimes referred

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Speaker 1: to as um a theomicy like theo and then uh

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of it, you know, a war of

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Speaker 1: the gods. So the Titanomicy is just one in the

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Speaker 1: Greek tradition. In the Trojan War, is also essentially a theomicy.

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Speaker 1: There's also the Gigantomici, which occurred after the war against

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Speaker 1: the gods. This is the war between the Olympian gods

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Speaker 1: and the giants who are the offspring of Gaia and

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Speaker 1: the blood of chronos Um. Now, of course, there are

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Speaker 1: plenty of other religions that feature theomachies. Of course, there's

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Speaker 1: a Norse uh god between the Aser and the van Ear.

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Speaker 1: There's the Vedic wars of the Davas and the Astras.

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Speaker 1: There's the Water War of Chinese mythology that that pitted

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Speaker 1: the destructive water god Gong Gong against Zoo Wrong, the

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Speaker 1: fire god. And then, of course, in Christian tradition we

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Speaker 1: have this idea of a war in heaven uh and

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure there there are numerous other examples we

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Speaker 1: could point to. Yeah, it seems to be very common

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Speaker 1: throughout the myths of the world to imagine that it's

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Speaker 1: some ancient time there was a conflict between a pre

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Speaker 1: existent class of of divine beings and then some like

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Speaker 1: newer or younger class of divine beings. It doesn't always

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Speaker 1: break down along generational lines like that, but it certainly does.

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Speaker 1: In the Greek example. Yeah, we kind of get into

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Speaker 1: this in our head, this idea of like, Okay, we

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Speaker 1: have the King of the gods, and he shall reign

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Speaker 1: forever and ever. But I feel like things feel a

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Speaker 1: bit more tenuous with these earlier models, because it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: this have been He's been ruling for a good three

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Speaker 1: or four years. Now, there are some there's some other

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Speaker 1: guys that came before him. I don't know what will

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Speaker 1: come next. He has he doesn't get along with everybody.

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Speaker 1: Heavy lies the crown. Yeah, I mean it makes sense

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Speaker 1: too if you're basing your ideas of divine rule, uh

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Speaker 1: in a mythological sense on the on the examples of

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Speaker 1: rule that you see in the world around you. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's just the nature of things. Yes, uh So, Now

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Speaker 1: I want to move to reading a section from a

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Speaker 1: an ancient text known as Hesiod's Theogomy. This is the

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Speaker 1: the Genealogy of the Gods by the ancient Greek writer

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Speaker 1: has He had to give some color to this story

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Speaker 1: we're telling. But first I need to set the stage

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Speaker 1: before I get to the part that we're going to read.

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Speaker 1: So I'm necessarily doing a bunch of condensing here because

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Speaker 1: there are a whole bunch of stories about like which

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Speaker 1: divine beings emanated and gave birth to what. But the

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Speaker 1: short version is there have already been a couple of

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Speaker 1: generations of divine beings by the time we get the

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Speaker 1: Olympian gods. Uh. The Earth deity Guia and the sky

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Speaker 1: deity Oranas or Uranus Oranas together have a bunch of offspring.

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Speaker 1: And these offspring include these beings called the Hecaton Curries

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Speaker 1: or the hundred Handers. Uh. There were there were three

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Speaker 1: of them, these three brothers, and they had some amazing

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Speaker 1: body plans, you might say, Yeah, fifty heads, a hundred arms.

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Speaker 1: It's great. I really enjoyed looking up, uh, mostly modern

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Speaker 1: illustrations of what this could have looked like, because there's

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Speaker 1: a there's a temptation to want to kind of draw

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Speaker 1: a turbo goro. You know. Um, it's been it's just

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Speaker 1: too many heads and too many arms. It just becomes

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Speaker 1: this mass of limbs and heads. But I've seen some people,

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Speaker 1: some artists push this more in the direction of kind

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Speaker 1: of like an amorphous being, you know, like it's the

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Speaker 1: thing or some sort of a show goth or something.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, just to kind of rat king god. Yeah. Now,

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Speaker 1: Guya and Uranas also gave birth to the Cyclopes, who

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Speaker 1: you know, we know about those. And then finally they

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Speaker 1: gave birth to a bunch of gods that were called

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Speaker 1: the Titans, and two of these titans Chronus and Raya.

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Speaker 1: They together then sire a new generation of gods with

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Speaker 1: names that might be more familiar Poseidon, Hades, demiter Hera, Zeus. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the members of the proper Greek pantheon of gods, right,

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Speaker 1: But as we mentioned, Heavy lies the crown and Chronus.

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Speaker 1: At this point, Cronus has assumed the throne of the

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Speaker 1: of the heavens after castrating his father Uranas, so Chronus

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Speaker 1: is in charge now. But Chronus is jealous and paranoid

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Speaker 1: like like many kings of Greek myth are like a Chrysius,

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Speaker 1: you know. In the Perseus narrative, he fears his own

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Speaker 1: offspring um and be because he's been given an omen

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Speaker 1: that one day he would be dethroned by his own offspring.

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Speaker 1: So every time Reya gives birth to one of his offspring,

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Speaker 1: Chronus would eat the newborn child. But then Zeus is born,

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Speaker 1: and I guess Zeus is the youngest of the brood.

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Speaker 1: Of the Olympian gods. And here Ya plays a trick

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Speaker 1: on Chronus. She feeds him a rock. It's a very

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Speaker 1: good trick. Instead, she she sends the real Zeus off

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Speaker 1: to hide away in a cave and swaps out Zeus

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Speaker 1: for a stone in a blanket and hands it over

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Speaker 1: to Chronus, and Chronus just eats it up. And then

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Speaker 1: Zeus is just training in a cave like a big

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Speaker 1: training montage, getting ready for the rebellion against his father. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's like Rocky four when he's out in the snow,

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Speaker 1: you know, lifting the logs and everything getting ready. And

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Speaker 1: so you have to imagine Chronus here is Ivan Draco

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Speaker 1: and Zeus is Rocky and what's going to happen? Well,

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Speaker 1: when Zeus has grown up, he somehow tricks Chronus into

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Speaker 1: vomiting up all of Zeus's siblings, who are then able

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Speaker 1: to join Zeus in making war on Chronus and the

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Speaker 1: Order of the Titans. And they also enlist some of

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Speaker 1: their allies, like some of the other primordial beings come

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Speaker 1: to fight on the side of Zeus and the Olympians.

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Speaker 1: The cyclopese Is and the hecaton Cries they had previously

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Speaker 1: those last two classes of beings had previously been imprisoned

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Speaker 1: in the underworld of Tartarus, and they're sort of set free,

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Speaker 1: and they joined in the fight. Zeos says to them,

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Speaker 1: put down your chainsaw and listen to me. It's time

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Speaker 1: for you to join in the fight, and they do.

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Speaker 1: Now Here, we're gearing up for battle. And Robert, are

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Speaker 1: you ready for us to read some from the theogony?

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Speaker 1: That wasn't from the theogony that you just quoted about

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Speaker 1: the Shain's house. No, no, no, that that was from

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Speaker 1: a weird al dared stupid right, well, then then carry on.

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Speaker 1: This translation appears in Thomas G. Palma's Anthology of Classical

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Speaker 1: myth Primary Sources in translation from Hackett Publishing, two thousand four.

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Speaker 1: So the Olympian gods take their position. Quote they stood

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Speaker 1: against the Titans on the line of battle, holding chunks

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Speaker 1: of cliff in their rugged hands. Opposite them, the Titans

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Speaker 1: tightened their ranks expectantly. Then both sides hands flashed with power,

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Speaker 1: and the unfathomable sea shrieked eerily. The earth crashed and rumbled,

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Speaker 1: the vast sky groaned and quavered, and massive Olympus shook

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Speaker 1: from its roots under the immortals onslaught a deep trimmor

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Speaker 1: of feet reached misty tartarus, and a high whistling noise

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Speaker 1: of insuppressible tumult, with heavy missiles that groaned and wind

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Speaker 1: in flight, and the sound of each side shouting rose

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Speaker 1: to starry heaven as they collided with a magnificent battle cry.

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Speaker 1: And now Zeus no longer held back his strength. His

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Speaker 1: lung seethed with anger, and he revealed all his power.

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Speaker 1: He charred from the sky, hurtling down from olympos in

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Speaker 1: a fury of lightning, hurling thunderbolts one after another, right

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Speaker 1: on target from his massive hand, a whirlwind of holy flame,

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Speaker 1: and the earth that bears life roared as it burned,

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Speaker 1: and the endless forest crackled in fire, and the continents melted,

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Speaker 1: and the ocean streams boiled, and the barren sea. The

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Speaker 1: blast of heat enveloped the Thornian Titans, and the flame

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Speaker 1: reached the bright stratosphere, and the incandescent rays of the

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Speaker 1: thunderbolts and lightning flashes blinded their eyes. Mighty as they were,

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Speaker 1: heat so terrible, and engulfed deep chaos. The sight of

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Speaker 1: it all and its sound to the ears was just

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Speaker 1: as if broad Heaven had fallen on Earth. The noise

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Speaker 1: of it crashing and of Earth being crushed would be

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Speaker 1: like the noise that arose from the strife of the

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Speaker 1: clashing gods. Winds hissed through the earth, starting off tremors

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Speaker 1: and swept dust and thunder and flashing bolts of lightning

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Speaker 1: the weapons of Zeus, along with the shouting and din

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Speaker 1: into both sides, reverberation from the terrible strife hung in

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Speaker 1: the air, and sheer power shone through it. I love it.

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Speaker 1: One can imagine like led Zeppelin or Rage against the

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Speaker 1: machine ring in the background. Yeah, or Chronus is like

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Speaker 1: the witch king of Angmar and Uh. But anyway, as

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Speaker 1: Zeus and the Olympians are, of course the victors in

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Speaker 1: this war, the titanomic he breaks in their favor. The

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Speaker 1: Titans are defeated, and they are chained up in Tartarus.

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Speaker 1: So they're cold, sort of thrown down into this hell

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Speaker 1: like underworld and and imprisoned there. And and there are

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Speaker 1: a few other disparate fates, like some of these primordial

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Speaker 1: being side with the Olympians. Uh Atlas is one of

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Speaker 1: the Titans. In particular, he's punished by being made to

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Speaker 1: hold up the heavens forever. But it'll be interesting to

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Speaker 1: keep this in mind later on when we talk about

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Speaker 1: some of the astrophysics today. Is that this idea that

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Speaker 1: Zeus or his Roman counterpart Jupiter would have been these

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Speaker 1: prolific destroyers that paved the way for the status quo

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Speaker 1: of today, the you know, the way things have been

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Speaker 1: ordained today by defeating this ancient class of gods that

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Speaker 1: had existed since the beginning or shortly after it. And

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Speaker 1: of course, and another funny thing about Zeus and Jupiter

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Speaker 1: is that the slaying doesn't stop there. I mean, they

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Speaker 1: are these these gods are prolific destroyers throughout all time

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Speaker 1: of myth. Yeah, because you know they they won the

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Speaker 1: crown through war, and then wars are required to maintain

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Speaker 1: the order. And then also you just have individuals who

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Speaker 1: step out of line. Uh. And you know, maybe in

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Speaker 1: a way that is meaningful, but also sometimes the idea

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Speaker 1: is just in a way where mortals are are not

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Speaker 1: are not allowed to question the gods or or or

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Speaker 1: in any ways like them. Than so I thought we

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Speaker 1: might run through some of the the murders or I

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Speaker 1: don't know, executions, I guess attributed to Jupiter and Zeus um.

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Speaker 1: So first of all ones that seem to be more

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Speaker 1: specifically aligned with the Roman Jupiter. There's the story of

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Speaker 1: Tillis Hostilius, who was killed by lightning bolt for botching

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Speaker 1: the reading of a sacred right. Um. So you know

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Speaker 1: it makes sense. Rights are important to religion. All of

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Speaker 1: this is it's it's it's part of the framework that's

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Speaker 1: holding up the cosmic order of the universe. This guy

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Speaker 1: is getting it wrong, so Zeus sends a lightning bolt

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Speaker 1: down on him. Could you imagine if Seth could throw

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Speaker 1: lightning at us every time we screwed up reading something? Oh,

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Speaker 1: it would it would be it would be a blood path. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Now we mentioned in Um the Titano mocky. Sorry. Now,

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Speaker 1: during the Titanomicy, the war against the Titans, it's also

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Speaker 1: said that Jupiter killed his father the Titan Saturn right,

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Speaker 1: and Saturn is basically the equivalent of the Greek Titan

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Speaker 1: Chronus right. You get into different versions of it, particularly,

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Speaker 1: I think some of the Greek variations of it, it's

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Speaker 1: it's less a clear picture of him having killed. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's the dividing up. I mean, it's It's kind of

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Speaker 1: like when you do them with a titan or a god. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes that kind of marvel uh universe system

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Speaker 1: comes into play where nobody really dies. There's always a

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Speaker 1: way they could come back. Now murders attributed more properly

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Speaker 1: to Zeus. Um boy, there there are a number of

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Speaker 1: them here. First there's Asclepius, and uh, this one's interesting

395
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Speaker 1: because he was essentially killed by Zeus for practicing necromancy,

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Speaker 1: for raising the dead. Asclepius was some kind of healer figure,

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Speaker 1: wasn't he. Yeah, but you're not supposed to heal too

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Speaker 1: much because when you're miss you're interfering with the divine

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Speaker 1: order of things. That's over the line. Now there's salmon As,

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Speaker 1: who is executed for essentially pretending to be Zus. That's

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Speaker 1: a no no. Then there's another Titan here, the Titan Minnotius,

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Speaker 1: who is also killed during the war against the Titans.

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Speaker 1: And then when you get into the myth of like

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Speaker 1: Hayn the like Haan was this individual. There's a whole

405
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: cool story to this. I think we've we've touched on

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Speaker 1: it before on the show. But essentially, uh, he was

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Speaker 1: punished by being turned into a wolf, but he had

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Speaker 1: a number of sons, and a lot of those. If

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Speaker 1: you look at lists of people that were killed by Zeus,

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Speaker 1: his son's make up a whole subsection of that list.

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Speaker 1: And then there faith On, the son of Helios, who

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Speaker 1: is essentially executed for bad driving. Uh but bad driving

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Speaker 1: with the sun chariot. So you know, that's that's one thing.

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Speaker 1: If if if you're just you know, misusing a normal chariot,

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Speaker 1: but if it's the chariot of the Sun itself, well

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Speaker 1: that's dangerous. And now you're toying with the gods. But

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Speaker 1: of course, beyond specific murders or executions or killings however

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Speaker 1: you want to establish them, Jupiter or Zeus, you know,

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Speaker 1: he tended to punish gods, mortals, and titans with various imprisonments, transformations, tortures.

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Speaker 1: He is the king of the gods, after all, and

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Speaker 1: then he has to dish out this punishment to maintain

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Speaker 1: cosmic balance. But but also due to sort of the

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Speaker 1: outside nature of his own powers and his otherwise humanoid demeanor,

424
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: you know, he is still essentially a king, and while

425
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: a human king with human cravings and imperfections, certainly has

426
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: an outsized ability to create chaos. Uh, it's even more

427
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 1: so with the God of gods. So he's a being

428
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: of intense gravity and mass, and those who involve themselves

429
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: with him risk just being crushed by that mass. Right.

430
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: And this brings us back, of course to the planet, which,

431
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: as we mentioned earlier. You know, as you can tell

432
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: from the from the English word for the planet, the

433
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: Romans came to associate this chief of their pantheon with

434
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 1: the bright light in the sky that actually is the

435
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: planet Jupiter. Yeah. So obviously Jupiter is big. I don't

436
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: think that's gonna come as a as a surprise to

437
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: anyone out there. And some of the facts that we're

438
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: gonna lay out for you here are kind of sort

439
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: of the typical songs of Jupiter that we must sing

440
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: just to remind you how big Jupiter is in relation

441
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: to Earth. Uh So let's refresh. First of all, Jupiter

442
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: is eleven times larger than Earth. That's in terms of diameter, right, Yeah,

443
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: if you're gonna line them up, Jupiter is more massive

444
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: than all the other planets of the Solar System combined.

445
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: That is incredible, because there's some there's some other once, right,

446
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: Jupiter is three hundred and seventeen point eight times as

447
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: massive as Earth, and you could fit almost thirteen hundred

448
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: earths inside of Jupiter. So basically, if Jupiter was a

449
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: gumball machine and you were putting Earth's inside it, that's

450
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: about how many you could fit. Uh. So these are

451
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: pretty standard facts. I got these from NASA and from

452
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: Universe Today, And yeah, you've probably heard them before, but

453
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 1: I think it it just bears reminding just how big

454
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: Jupiter is, and therefore how massive, how just gravitationally potent

455
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: and powerful. You know, I bet you could fit more

456
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: earths inside Jupiter Earth was cube shaped rather than round.

457
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: You ever look at that like the packing efficiency of

458
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: ball shapes versus other shapes. Yeah, I guess, I guess so. Uh.

459
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: But it also it makes you wonder how many humans

460
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: could fit inside Zeus or Jupiter the god. How many

461
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: gods can fit inside Chronus? Seems like a lot, you know,

462
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: well the baby gods, that's true, are smaller than Yeah.

463
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: How big was that rock you think that Cronus had

464
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: to eat like to trick him into thinking it was Zeus?

465
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: I mean, are we are we talking just like a

466
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: you know, hand sized rock? Or is this like a

467
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: Mountain that he ate. I think it's like, well, I

468
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,719
Speaker 1: mean it's it's size the size of a baby guide.

469
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: So then I guess the question is how big is

470
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: a baby god? I don't know. Uh. There Uh so

471
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: the difference between Earth and Jupiter is so great that

472
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: it can even play into our sci fi models and

473
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: uh and I think this is great because this is

474
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: also I think helps make our point here. I was

475
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: reading reading about this. This is some work from David

476
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: Boulderstone from the University of Leicester. He asked a couple

477
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: of questions regarding Jupiter and planet sizes and energy. Back

478
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: in twenty eleven, this would have been an article titled

479
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 1: That's no Moon by Boulderstone at All, published in the

480
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 1: Journal of Special Topics, University of Leicester, Department of Physics

481
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: and Astronomy. Yeah, this is this journal is fun. It's

482
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: an undergraduate journal, but it's for papers by physics students,

483
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: like working out the math of weird problems involving superpowers

484
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: and destroying planets. I think I recall one paper on

485
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: there that was about whether you could drive a boat

486
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: in Jupiter's atmosphere That was really funny. Uh. It's it's

487
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: stuff like that, so you can find a lot of

488
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: really fun topics. The topics are quite special in fact. Yeah,

489
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 1: and as you can guess from the title, that's no Moon.

490
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,719
Speaker 1: This paper concerns the Death Star. So the main questions

491
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: asked by this paper and you should look it up

492
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: if you can find it for free online, if you

493
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: if you're if you really want to geek out on

494
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: your your star wars and uh science here first of

495
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: all asked, is it possible for something the size of

496
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: the Death Star so uh physical construction more or less

497
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: the size of of Earth Moon, uh, to generate enough

498
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: power to destroy a rocky planet like Earth. And in

499
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: the secondary question, if so, would it be possible to

500
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: generate enough power to destroy a gas giant the size

501
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: of Jupiter. So a lot of this paper is about,

502
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: you know, doing the math, can a number of necessary assumptions, uh,

503
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: and without you know, geeking out too hard on questions

504
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: about well, what does a chiber crystal really do to

505
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: energy and so forth? But ultimately they decided that the

506
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: Earth is well within the star, the Death Star's energy budget,

507
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: so it could totally blow up our planet. No questions asked?

508
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: Cool but good? But Jupiter Jupiter this would be a challenge. Quote,

509
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: Jupiter requires much greater energy demands and would put considerable

510
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: strain on the Death Star. To destroy a planet like Jupiter,

511
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: it would probably have to divert all remaining power from

512
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: all essential systems and life support, which is not necessarily possible. Okay,

513
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: So granted this is not like. This is not firm

514
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: and set side is just a speculation on the power

515
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: of the Death Star. But think about that. That is

516
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: how massive and tough the planet Jupiter is. H If

517
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: it was Jupiter versus the Death Star, the death Star

518
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: would not completely win. Uh. Late, the death Star is

519
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: not powerful enough to destroy Jupiter. No, Jupiter absolutely is

520
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: a local bully. Jupiter has a mass and a gravitational

521
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: influence that is unrivaled in the Solar System, of course,

522
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: apart from the Sun itself. This does make me think

523
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: of Percy Shelley's verse play Prometheus Unbound, where the god

524
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: Jupiter is the villain. He's this cruel, tyrant god who

525
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: has to be destroyed in order to free the world

526
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: from his grip. And he's destroyed with the help of

527
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: this being of the void called the Demogorgon, which we

528
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: explored in a was it was it last October that

529
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: we did that episode, or maybe two octobers ago. Maybe

530
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: it was two ago. Yeah, but yeah, there's one part

531
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: where the spirit of the Earth itself is speaking of

532
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: Jupiter in Prometheus Unbound, and it says, I dare not

533
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: speak like life lest heavens fell king should hear and

534
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: link me to some wheel of pain more torturing than

535
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: the one where on role. So Earth is already on

536
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: a wheel of pain? What what if it gets worse?

537
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: Could could Jupiter put Earth on a worse wheel of pain?

538
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: The answer is yes, thank okay. So here I wanted

539
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: to shift to talking about some astrophysics, and specifically I

540
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: want to get to a hypothesis put forward in in

541
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: one interesting paper that came out a few years ago

542
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: that has some parallels to the titanomicy. So first, I

543
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: think we should look at some exoplanets, because you know,

544
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: it's weird. I can still remember a time when the

545
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: idea of planets orbiting other stars was mostly a matter

546
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: of speculation, you know, with a few stray bits of

547
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: evidence here and there. But within the past decade or so,

548
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: exo planet research has just exploded, and I think this

549
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: is largely due to a number of new telescopes coming

550
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: online and new detection techniques. But I remember one of

551
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: the big moments here in the history of exoplanet research

552
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: was this dump of data on hundreds of new exoplanets

553
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: from the Kepler Space Telescope. I think this was in

554
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: Do you remember when this happened, Rob, Yeah, yeah, vaguely so. Yes,

555
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: it was hugely illuminating. But it also raises these questions

556
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: about what kinds of planets are out there, and what

557
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: kind of differences do we see when we compare our

558
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: Solar System to the types of stellar systems that are

559
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: common throughout the galaxy. And so here I wanted to

560
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: turn to something interesting I was reading. It was a

561
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: blog post by the astrophysicist and science writer Ethan Seagull

562
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: called this is why you must never try and colonize

563
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: a super Earth planet. You've probably heard this term super

564
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: Earth so but that term can actually be fairly misleading,

565
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: and this post gets into why that is. And I

566
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: wanted to kind of follow his logic here. So first

567
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: of all, you can observe that here in our Solar

568
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: System we've got two kinds of planets pretty much. You

569
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: have small rocky planets with a thin atmosphere or no atmosphere,

570
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: and those are those are closer into the Sun. So

571
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: you've got Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars rocky core, very little

572
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: atmosphere relative to gas giants. And then further out you

573
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: have these larger gas planets with some kind of solid

574
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: or metal core surrounded by dense gases extending out for

575
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: thousands of kilometers in radius. How do these different types

576
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: of planets form. Well, the leading theory on the formation

577
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: of the planets is that our Solar system began as

578
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: a huge cloud of interstellar gas and dust floating in space.

579
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: And this would have been made up of atoms and

580
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: molecules that were partially left over from previous generations of

581
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: stars that may have exploded in a supernova or been

582
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: torn apart in other events, you know, neutron star collisions

583
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: and things like that billions of years ago, or just

584
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: hydrogen that's been floating around out there in space since

585
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: the Big Bang. But so you've got all this gas

586
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: and dust just floating around, and at some point this

587
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: huge cloud of gas and dust collapsed, meaning it started

588
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: to fold in upon itself and become much denser and

589
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 1: there are certain they're there are different things that could

590
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: have caused. This could have been caused by gravitational or

591
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: magnetic disturbances, maybe another star exploding nearby, sending material and

592
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: a shock wave through the cloud um But when the

593
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: cloud collapsed, all of that dense matter pulled together by

594
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: gravity at the center of the cloud started to become

595
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: a star, which would be our sun. But in this

596
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: kind of larval stage, it would be known as a

597
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 1: solar nebula. It's a cloud on the way toward becoming

598
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: a sun. So you can picture a kind of huge

599
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: wheel of spinning gas and dust orbiting around a dense

600
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: hot center and getting more thinned out as you move

601
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 1: out from the center. Now, eventually gravity pulls things together

602
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: so much that the material at the center of the

603
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: spinning disk under under all this heat and pressure, as

604
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: it gets denser and denser, starts to cause hydrogen atoms

605
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: to fuse into helium atoms. And this is the beginning

606
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: of the nuclear fusion reaction that powers our sun. And

607
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: of course this releases tremendous amounts of energy in the process.

608
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: You get radiation, heat, and sunshine. Meanwhile, the outer parts

609
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 1: of this spinning wheel they keep spinning around the newborn

610
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: star at the center, and eventually clumps of gas and

611
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: dust inside this spinning disk start to be attracted to

612
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: each other and to attract more gas and dust to

613
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: themselves because of gravity, and they form these larger and

614
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: larger clumps of matter still in orbit around the star.

615
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: And of course these accumulating clumps would eventually turn out

616
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: to be solid stuff like planets, moons, comets, and asteroids,

617
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: and one of the biggest of these early forming clumps

618
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: would become Jupiter. Now, this is a normal way for

619
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: for star systems to form. But coming back to that

620
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: that blog post by Seagull that I was talking about.

621
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: Sometimes we would just assume that other stellar systems should

622
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: be like ours, with small rocky planets towards the you know,

623
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: in smaller orbits are closer orbits around the Sun, and

624
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: then bigger gas giants farther out. But actually it looks

625
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: like our Solar system is rather unusual in this regard.

626
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: To read from seagull quote, When we look at our

627
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: most successful exoplanet hunting missions, Kepler and tests, the most

628
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: abundant class of world that they found is an in

629
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: between type commonly known as super Earth's. Despite the allure

630
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: of a planet that might be Earth like, only larger

631
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 1: and with more room for life forms on it, super

632
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: Earths are nothing like our science fiction imaginings. Here's why

633
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: you must never try and call an ice one. So

634
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 1: in our solar systems, smaller rocky planets are close to

635
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 1: the star within what's known as the frost line, as

636
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: a certain distance out from from the host star, and

637
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: the outer planets beyond the frost line are these gas giants.

638
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: But actually we know now from exoplanet surveys that this

639
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: is somewhat arbitrary. Planets of any mask and any size

640
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: can orbit in very close to the host star. You

641
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 1: can have a planet as big as Jupiter orbiting really

642
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: close to our Sun, making a full circuit within days.

643
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,280
Speaker 1: You've probably heard about these types of planets that referred

644
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: to as hot jupiters, so it doesn't have to be

645
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 1: the way it is here and uh and as Siegel said,

646
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: the most common type of planet we've actually found out

647
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: there are these super earth So these would be planets

648
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: of two to ten Earth masses. So once you get

649
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: to about double the mass of Earth, you're in super

650
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: earth territory. Now, an important thing to point out here

651
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: is that to some extent, by necessity, our picture of

652
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: what kind of planets are out there is going to

653
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: be influenced by our detection methods, like what types of

654
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 1: planets we are particularly good at spot using the methods

655
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: available to us. So it's possible that these types of

656
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 1: planets may be overrepresented in surveys. But still it does

657
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 1: appear that there are lots and lots of super Earths

658
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: around stars throughout the rest of the galaxy. And despite

659
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: the name, these super earth planets are not necessarily much

660
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: like Earth at all. One factor is how much gas

661
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 1: these planets retain around them as they form. Because when

662
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: you think about a planet, you know whether it's a

663
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 1: rocky planet like Earth or a gas giant like Jupiter.

664
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: There are gonna be a couple of things working against

665
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: each other that helped determine what types of volatiles you

666
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: can keep stuck to you. One is going to be

667
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: your mass and thus your gravity that really helps keep

668
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: the atmosphere stuck to you. But then another thing is

669
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: going to be is going to be solar radiation, because

670
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 1: the Sun is always going to be blasting you with

671
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: solar winds and solar radiation that want to strip away

672
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: volatiles from the planet and blow them out into space,

673
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: and this is something we can see happening to other planets,

674
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: like I think you know. One of the theories of

675
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: how Mars ended up with such a thin atmosphere today

676
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: is that it once may have had a thicker atmosphere,

677
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: but the Sun kind of blasted that atmosphere further out

678
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: into space over time. Now it's nice for us that

679
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,439
Speaker 1: Earth is able to maintain an atmosphere because we need

680
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,760
Speaker 1: it in order to breathe, but actually having too much

681
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: mass and thus too much gravity and thus too much

682
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: atmosphere can really make it impossible for creatures like us

683
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: to survive on a planet. To read from seagull quote,

684
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: as long as the mass remains below a certain threshold,

685
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: the radiation from the nearby star will hit these easily

686
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 1: boiled gases and hit them with enough energy that they'll

687
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: escape from the planet in question. But it rise above

688
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: that threshold, and even the ultraviolet radiation and solar wind

689
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: particles emitted from the star within the Solar System won't

690
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,720
Speaker 1: be able to kick those light atoms and molecules away.

691
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: So in other words, if you are too low in

692
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: mass and too close to the star, the star will

693
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: blast away your atmosphere. But if you raise a planet's

694
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: mass beyond a certain threshold, its gravity is going to

695
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: get so strong, strong enough to withstand that solar assault

696
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: and hold onto its volatiles like gases and water. And

697
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: you get enough mass together in one place, and it

698
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: will start suctioning up material from all around it. It

699
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: will become this great accumulator. And of course, if it

700
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: gets enough mass that atoms at its core start undergoing fusion,

701
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: then you've just created a new star. But if you

702
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: if you're not, if you don't have quite that much mass,

703
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: what you end up creating is a gas giant, a

704
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 1: gas planet, even even smaller than Jupiter and Saturn. Planets

705
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: more on the on the scale of Neptune are going

706
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: to have these thick accumulated atmospheres that will make the

707
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: surface uninhabitable. So Seagull calls attention to a really important

708
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 1: paper from published in the Astrophysical Journal by Jinging Chin

709
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: and David Kipping called Probabilistic Forecasting of the masses and

710
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: radii of other worlds. And this is basically a survey

711
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: that says that there are pretty much four types of

712
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 1: planets that you expect to find in our in our galaxy,

713
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 1: you get rocky worlds like Earth, and then you get

714
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: gas planets with with big what was called volatile envelopes,

715
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: like Neptune. And then you get very big gas giants

716
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: like Jupiter, and then you get basically fully fledged stars.

717
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: Just a planet gets so big that it's a star

718
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: in its own And one of the important things for

719
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 1: us here is that category of the Neptune like planets.

720
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: Seagull points out that if you're talking about a planet

721
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: with a density roughly equal to Earth's, which is about

722
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: six grams per cubic centimeter, you can really only get

723
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: about thirty percent larger in radius than Earth is and

724
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: still be a rocky planet. You start getting bigger than that,

725
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: and your mass means that you will be less like

726
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: Earth and more like Neptune, a minor gas planet clinging

727
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: to a deep blanket of hydrogen and other gases with

728
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 1: maybe thousands of times the atmospheric pressure of Earth at

729
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: the surface. So I feel like we don't appreciate this

730
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: enough when we think about this idea of you know,

731
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: super Earth's orbiting other stars that you don't have to

732
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: go much bigger than Earth before you're starting to turn

733
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: into an uninhabitable gas planet, or at least uninhabitable for

734
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,720
Speaker 1: the kinds of life that we understand. And these kinds

735
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 1: of planets litter the galaxy, Planets that are a little

736
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: bit bigger than Earth, probably enveloped in a gas cloud

737
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: that would make the surface fully uninhabitable for us uh

738
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: seagull rites quote. Once you get to about twice as

739
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: massive as Earth, or just about twenty five to thirty

740
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 1: larger and radius than our planet, you're no longer rocky

741
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: with only a thin atmosphere, but are overwhelmingly likely to

742
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: be Neptune like with a full fledged, large envelope of hydrogen,

743
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: helium and other light gases. And so for this reason,

744
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: if you hear references to the abundant super Earth's in

745
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: the Milky Way, these are not good places for humans

746
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 1: to colonize, probably not at least, and probably not great

747
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 1: places to look for life that is a close analog

748
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: to Earth life. Some people have seen calling them many

749
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,399
Speaker 1: Neptunes rather than Super Earth's. But this brings us back

750
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: to an interesting question about our own solar system. Why

751
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: does our Solar System look like it does. Why does

752
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: it have a planet like Earth rather than a bunch

753
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: of these infernal super earths like so many other stars

754
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: in our galaxy? And there was a paper published in

755
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in that offers

756
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: one hypothesis to answer this, So why does our Solar

757
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 1: system look the way it does? This paper is called

758
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: Jupiter's Decisive Role in the Inner Solar System's Early evolutions

759
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: is by Constantine Batigen and Greg Laughlin. Now, in addition

760
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: to this paper, I was looking at a couple of

761
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: write ups on it that quoted the authors, one inh

762
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 1: NA Geo by Andrew Physicis and one in Scientific American

763
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 1: by Lee Billings. And so the short version here is

764
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: that the authors of this study in argue that in

765
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: the newly forming Solar System, Jupiter briefly migrated inwards from

766
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: the place where it first formed, and as it moved

767
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: inward into the Inner Solar System, it caused a series

768
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: of cascading effects that would have smashed other early forming

769
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: super Earth's in its wake, and that the current inner

770
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: planets like Earth are actually formed from the debris left

771
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: over after this catastrophic series of collisions caused by Jupiter's

772
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: inward migration, and this broader hypothesis about the ancient inner

773
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: migration of Jupiter is sometimes called the Grand Tach hypothesis. Basically,

774
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: it goes that lots of astronomers used to think that

775
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 1: planetary orbits were as a rule, highly stable and nearly circular,

776
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: unlikely to change. But when we look at other stars again,

777
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: that's just not what we find. Sometimes we see weird

778
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: kind of changes or eccentricities in planetary orbits. And so

779
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: to explain the Grand Tech hypothesis, I'm going to quote

780
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: from this article in Scientific American by Lee Billings called Jupiter,

781
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 1: Destroyer of Worlds may have paved the way for Earth,

782
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: where Billings describes the Grand Tach hypothesis by saying that

783
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: it posits quote, in the first few million years of

784
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: our Solar systems existence, Jupiter migrated into and then back

785
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: out of the inner Solar System, following a course similar

786
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: to a sailboats when it tacks around a buoy. Back then,

787
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: Jupiter would have still been embedded in a gas rich disc.

788
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 1: Much of that gas was spiraling down towards the Sun

789
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: so much that the action would have sapped some of

790
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: Jupiter's angular momentum too, causing the giant planet itself to

791
00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: spiral into the vicinity of where Mars is today. Jupiter

792
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: would have kept falling in towards the Sun if not

793
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: for being caught by the subsequent formation of Saturn, which

794
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: began drifting in as well. As the two giant planets

795
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: came closer together, they were caught in an orbital resonance.

796
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: This resonance expelled all the gas between them, gradually reversing

797
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 1: their death spirals and causing them to tack back out

798
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: to the outer Solar System. So this Grand Tach hypothesis,

799
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: if true, would explain several things. It would explain why

800
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: Mars is so small when we might expect it to

801
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: be larger, in the words of Billings. It would also

802
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: explain the distribution of icy and rocky bodies in the

803
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: asteroid belt and other strange features of the Solar System.

804
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 1: But if the Grand Tach is correct, Jupiter's orbit would

805
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: have strayed into the inner regions of the Solar System,

806
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: and its gravitational influence would have caused the realignment of

807
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: the orbits of existing early forming super Earth's sometimes causing

808
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: their orbits to overlap one another, and sometimes they would

809
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: actually have major collisions. You would really only need one

810
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: such catastrophic collision in order to have a chain reaction

811
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: that could annihilate these early forming inner planets. One one

812
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 1: crash could lead to what the authors here called a

813
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: collisional cascade. The studies author Greg Laughlin is quoted in

814
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: the in these news articles by saying, quote, it's the

815
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: same thing we worry about if satellites were to be

816
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: destroyed in low Earth orbit, their fragments would start smashing

817
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: into other satellites, and you'd risk a chain reaction of collisions.

818
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: Our work indicates that Jupiter would have created just such

819
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: a collisional cascade in the Inner Solar System. And to

820
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: quote here from billings quote, the simulation suggested that Jupiter's

821
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 1: inward spiral would send swarms of one hundred kilometer wide

822
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: planetary building blocks cascading into the Inner Solar System. The

823
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: giant planet's gravity would also sling those building blocks and

824
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 1: the inner planets themselves into overlapping elliptical orbits, creating an

825
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: interplanetary demolition derby of whirling, colliding, fragmenting worlds now this.

826
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: I mean, this sounds like a titanomic y yeah to me.

827
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 1: I mean this is a war of the gods in

828
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: which maybe the gods themselves are not destroyed, but there's

829
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: a lot of destruction um going on between them. Yeah,

830
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 1: exactly right. I mean that's why I was making this connection.

831
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: And I do want to be very clear, Uh, we

832
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,479
Speaker 1: are suggesting a connection based on like metaphorical similarities, because

833
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,919
Speaker 1: there are actually people in the more Velakovsky vein who

834
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: think that you could draw literal parallels between things described

835
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: in myth and ancient movements of the planets, which I

836
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 1: think is not probably not true. Like uh, Emmanuel Velakowski.

837
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: One of the things he wrote was that, you know,

838
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: like miracles described in the Bible, about like pillars of

839
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: fire and stuff like that would have been caused by

840
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: ancient planets moving around in their orbits and you know,

841
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 1: stuff like that. I mean, there's no evidence for this

842
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: in the modern world, but fantastically weird hypotheses that some

843
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: people still believe for some reason, not not actual scientists.

844
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: All of this stuff we're talking about would have been

845
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: before we even had the Earth as it exists today,

846
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: So this would not have been things that people could

847
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: have witnessed. But the metaphorical similarity to these uh you know, uh,

848
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: theomicy myths is is fantastically cool. Yeah, and you can

849
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: you can easily get into comparisons of like, what does

850
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: it mean to have terrific power? You know, whether you're

851
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: that that power is coming via the mass of some

852
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: sort of a planet or it's coming through the you know,

853
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: the power of a of a single warrior king in

854
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 1: in history. And I like that it's it's creating this

855
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 1: metaphorical residence that it's not just Jupiter destroying this early

856
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,919
Speaker 1: generation of of primordial beings like the Titans, but it's

857
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 1: also creating the new divine order because, according to the

858
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: authors here, a second generation of planets after this you know,

859
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: destruction cascade within the inner Solar System caused by Jupiter.

860
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,720
Speaker 1: If this hypothesis is correct, a second generation of planets

861
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 1: would inform out of the whirling field of debris that's

862
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: left over. So the pulverized remnants of these ancient super

863
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: earths would have a couple of fates, Like some of

864
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: the debris would get dragged down into the Sun, and

865
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 1: then some of the leftover chunks would become the bodies

866
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: of planets like Earth and Venus. After Jupiter migrates back

867
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: out away from the Sun again. Yeah, it's like in

868
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: the aftermath of the war, um, Zeus has to say, well, um,

869
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 1: looks okay, Poseidon Hades, Um, we gotta divvy this up. Uh,

870
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: somebody's gotta make the ocean's work. Somebody's got to keep

871
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: the underworld running clean. Um, so let's let's get to it.

872
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: These are jobs now. Now, the the aftermath of the

873
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: war defines our roles. Now. One thing that doesn't perfectly

874
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 1: match up with the story in Greek myth, but does

875
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,720
Speaker 1: seem just generally mythologically interesting, is that if the Grand

876
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,399
Speaker 1: Tach hypothesis is correct, that Saturn would have been responsible

877
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: for pulling Jupiter out of the fray, right, pulling Jupiter

878
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: back out away from the Sun. Now, Saturn again is

879
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 1: associated with Chronus, the father of Jupiter, who was actually

880
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,399
Speaker 1: the main enemy here. So that part doesn't really line up,

881
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,919
Speaker 1: but but I like it anyway. Well, you know, don't

882
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:25,479
Speaker 1: discount the bond between father and son. Who knows, even

883
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: after you fought one another in battle, right, I mean,

884
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: I just imagine, like the six hour Snyder cut of

885
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: this myth, like, can I can imagine this scene where yeah,

886
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: they've been battling each other, but then, uh, you know,

887
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,320
Speaker 1: Saturn reaches out to him and and and and saves

888
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: him from from destruction or something. My son, I am sorry,

889
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: I tried to eat you while digesting that stone, I realized.

890
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what he realized. I don't. I don't

891
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 1: think Chronus learns lessons. Chronus does not seem like a

892
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: lesson learner. Well, I don't know if any of the

893
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: gods do particularly, I mean not really. It's not really

894
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,439
Speaker 1: a role for them. It's for mortals are the ones

895
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 1: who learn the lessons. Uh, the gods are the ones

896
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: who teach the lessons. Yeah, so I think that's maybe

897
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 1: gonna have to do it for this episode. But in

898
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 1: the next episode, we wanted to come back and look

899
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: at more interesting ways that the tyrant Jupiter could indeed

900
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: be the decider of the fates of Earth, acting as protector, creator,

901
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 1: and destroyer all in one. So so come back next

902
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: time for more Jupiter myths and Jupiter science. That's right,

903
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: should be a good time. In the meantime, if you

904
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 1: want to check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow

905
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,799
Speaker 1: your Mind, including past episodes that have dealt with with

906
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 1: Saturn and Jupiter uh, mainly with the moons of of

907
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: Saturn and then also the Jovian moons UH. Then you

908
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,839
Speaker 1: can find those in the Stuff to Blow your Mind

909
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: podcast feed, and you can find that podcast feed wherever

910
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, wherever that happens to be. We

911
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: just ask that you rate, review, and subscribe. Huge thanks

912
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,720
Speaker 1: as always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson.

913
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us

914
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other to suggest

915
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: topic for the future, just to say hello, you can

916
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind

917
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of

918
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,

919
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're

920
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:31,240
Speaker 1: listening to your favorite shows.