WEBVTT - Bob Pittman 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:07.240 Bob, Well, I'm so grateful for your time and your wisdom. Well, 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:09.680 I don't know whether there's any wisdom, but I always 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:13.440 enjoyed talking about these kinds of topics because usually we 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.880 don't in life, and to me, these are probably the 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:20.000 most important topics that we can talk about because the 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:23.560 foundation of our life. Yeah, exactly. And I do really 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:28.240 believe in the sharing of experience because it's identifiable. It's 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:30.840 it reminds us that we're part of something that, however 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.560 isolated we feel. There are people, you know, you would 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.520 be identifiable as an extraordinarily successful person, but it's good 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.680 to know that you are a person to best compliment, 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:46.320 I'm going to have thank you. Hello, I'm Mini Driver. 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:52.040 Welcome to Many Questions Season two. I've always loved Christ's Questionnaire. 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:56.560 It was originally a nineteenth century parlor game where players 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.960 would ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:04.400 the other player's true nature. It's just the scientific method really. 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.920 In asking different people the same set of questions, you 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.280 can make observations about which truths appeared to be universal. 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.160 I love this discipline and it made me wonder what 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:17.959 if these questions were just the jumping off point, what 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.440 greater depths would be revealed if I ask these questions 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:25.840 as conversation starters with thought leaders and trailblazers across all 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:29.440 these different disciplines. So I adapted prus questionnaire and I 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.160 wrote my own seven questions that I personally think a 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.399 pertinent to a person's story. They are when and where 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:38.319 were you happiest? What is the quality you like least 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:42.800 about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.920 What question would you most like answered, What person, place, 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:49.960 or experience has shaped you the most? What would be 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:52.600 your last meal? And can you tell me something in 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:56.280 your life that's grown out of a personal disaster. And 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:00.800 I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.360 I am honored and humbled to have had the chance 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.000 to engage with. You may not hear their answers to 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.400 all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.840 which questions felt closest to their experience or the most surprising, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:19.400 or created the most fertile ground to connect. My guest 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.639 today on many questions is the co founder of MTV 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:26.600 and I Heeart Media, where he is the current chairman 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:31.840 Bob Pittman. Bob is a media entrepreneur who feels to 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.080 me like he's sort of in a league of his own. 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.320 He's had so many interesting and creative incarnations in a 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.720 ton of consumer focused industries. Just to give you an idea, 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:46.720 Bob has been CEO of a Well Networks, six Flags, 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.360 Theme Parks, Century to any One real Estate, and a 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.840 World Time Warner, as well as being CEO of clear Channel, 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:57.440 which was what evolved and expanded into the current I 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:02.680 Heeart media. So it's extraordinarily varied. He's one of the 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.880 most interested people I've ever met, and when you're having 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:10.519 a conversation with him, ideas sort of spark off each other, 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.840 creating this brilliant feeling of forward momentum. And given the 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.080 scope of his success, it feels like, you know, he 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.920 could probably sit back and enjoy the extraordinarily diverse fruits 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.799 of his labor. But whenever we speak, I always get 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.880 to see the perspective of a person who is constantly 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.639 looking forward and is interested in the exploration and unfolding 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:38.120 of life, not just business. It feels like a weird 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.680 time to be asking this first question, but it's always 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.800 pertinent within peacetime or war, But when and where were 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:48.360 you happiest. I hope that I'm happiest right now. Someone 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:50.720 told me when I was a young man, said, you know, 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.040 most people never live because they're in the past, with 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.880 their regrets, in the future, with their worries, and they 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:00.040 never get right here, right now. And so I try, I, 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:04.160 as a human, not always successful, to sort of understand 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.720 that and try and be happy wherever I am, whatever 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.040 I'm doing, and at the moment I'm alive. I've had 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.160 a lot of happy moments, but I want this to 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:14.600 be the happiest moment, and I want to appreciate this 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:16.800 moment the most of any moment I could have. Is 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.160 that part of the contingency of happiness fear is presence 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:22.400 and appreciation. It's just a good way to say it, 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.160 I think so. But it's also I just don't want 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.800 to think, well that I was happy, then why am 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.640 I not happy now? I mean to me, happiness is 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:32.760 one of those things that I can either choose to 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.560 be happy or I can choose to be unhappy. And 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.039 how do I get myself in a frame where I 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.720 just look at things and go I'm happy. I'm feeling good. 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:44.520 I appreciate it. Yeah, I mean sometimes just saying it. 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:48.200 It's tricky with circumstance not lining up with one's expectations. 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.640 And even though I think that expectation might be the 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:55.880 deadliest psychological weapon that we have against ourselves, of expecting 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.120 reality to conform to what it is we want as 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:01.360 opposed to being in the business of what it is, 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:03.560 I agree with you. I think I think one of 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.279 the worst things we do. And it's gonna sound very weird, 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.120 and I don't mean it this extreme, and I'm gonna 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:10.400 say it this extreme. The worst thing we do is plan. 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:15.039 Plans don't come true. Something wonderful can happen. But you know, 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.159 plan we sort of develop, I think to reduce our 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.120 fear of the future and our anxiety about the future. 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.400 But to me, you know, I do I have a plan. 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.320 Of course, in business, I've got to a game plan 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.800 we lay out the year. But it's interesting. Even at work, 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:32.880 we have a weekly meeting what we call our strat 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.359 com and it's the senior leaders of the company, and 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.120 the goal is to adjust the plan because we know 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:41.839 no plan, and even in a week the plan has 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.680 changed that this plan is not going to come true, 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.080 and you know, the plans, I hope it's a dream. 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:49.520 It's an you know, as you say, an expectation. But 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.920 I think sometimes we get ourselves off track by saying 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.440 I plan something, and I'm unhappy because it didn't come 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.920 out as planned. Wait a minute, you made the plan. One, 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.520 you make another plan. Make a plan work about exactly 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.240 as you want. It bedevils a lot of people and 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.960 leads people astray from their own enjoyment of this journey 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.120 we have called life, you know. And at the end 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.240 of the day, this thing, it ends the same way 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:16.839 no matter what we do. You know, most business they go, 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.360 you know, the means, it's not important, it's just the end. 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.960 What are you gonna do? Life, it's the opposite. The 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.200 ends the same no matter what you do. So it's 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.080 all about the journey. And I think if we can 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.040 begin to get an appreciation of that journey, it not 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:35.000 only makes it better for us spiritually, mentally, etcetera, but 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.520 also even in business, it makes it better because which 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.520 is realistic about there's so many variables you can't control, 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.400 stop trying to control. But if we know these things, 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.880 why do we persist? Then with the expectation of circumstance, 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.479 either conforming to the idea that we have about what 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.320 a good version of that is, like when everything does 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.279 as we've just seen in the last two years, how 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.039 things come apart in an instant. Why are we still 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.880 so attached as humans to this idea of it working 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.120 out as we envision it, as opposed to going, let 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.159 me stay incredibly loose and fluid with the vessel that 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:08.800 the things I want is going to come to me, 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:10.600 and because maybe it's going to be different. I think 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.480 the ambiguity and the randomness makes people very anxious. And 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:17.520 I'm comfortable, and I think if they can do a 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:19.840 plan and say I've got my five year plan, I've 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:21.760 got my one year plan, I have my weak plan, 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:23.960 I know what I'm gonna do, I know what's coming 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:27.400 for me, it goes ah. I've reduced the anxiety, but 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.480 I'm not sure that's healthy. But I will tell you 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:34.440 some people criticize me because a year so ambiguous, you know, 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:36.600 you're not being clear, And I go, I'm trying to 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:40.160 be realistic that there's only so much that's knowable in life. 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:42.760 I think is more of a random walk than it 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.720 is a planned experience. I look back, and you know, 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:48.760 even talking about business, I look back on my business 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:52.280 career and go, gosh, it's been a series of meteors 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:54.920 flying out of the sky and hitting me on the head. 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.480 It's that kind of randomness that my career has been about. 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:00.600 And when I was a young man and I thought 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.840 I had a plan, that plan fell apart really quickly, 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:08.080 and thank goodness, I sort of opened my mind to say, oh, well, 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:10.800 maybe I'll do that. Then if that's popping up, and 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:14.480 in my personal life as well, is you know, you think, gosh, 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:16.080 I know what's going to be great for my kids. 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:17.640 I know what my kids should do. I know what 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.680 school is, you could do. M Wow. It's like that's 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.200 not at all what happens. And if I try and 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.800 force my kids into my plan for them, I'm not 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.080 doing them a favor and I'm not doing anything for 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.960 my relationship with them. It's this idea of how do 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:35.440 I do active listening and really try and understand the 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.040 moment and where they are and how I can support 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.800 them as opposed to try and get them to conform 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.760 to my plan. Yeah. I think it's actually the secret 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.800 of happiness. In fact, that's what I think happiness is 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:49.600 is being able to let go of what you think 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.560 happiness should be and allow it to be what is 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.520 and fit yourself. There's a great quote I can't remember 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.760 who's William James or something about our experience is what 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.320 we attend to j unit. If you look at something, 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:04.000 it can only look like this. And my happiness and 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:07.040 my everything, my business, my relationship, my everything is hung 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.080 on it looking this way. Well, it's It's also one 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:11.360 of those saying as reality is what you perceive it 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.240 to be. And you know this whole discussion now about 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:18.160 is does the universe create consciousness or does consciousness create 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:21.360 the universe? I mean you get the very fundamental levels 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.120 of existence and and so you know, when you get 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:27.080 down the happiness is. I think the challenge is to 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:29.000 be happy with what we have, when we have it, 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:32.640 how we have it, and to accept happiness as opposed 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:37.240 to reject happiness. I agree so eleanor Roosevelt. People are 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:38.880 as happy as they make up their mind to be. 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:41.840 I like that. I always say that, Yeah, that's a 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.760 very good line. She was cool. I liked her, Yes, 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:51.360 she was very cool. In your life. Can you tell 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:55.520 me about something that has grown out of a personal disaster. Sure, 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.040 when I was six years old, I was at a 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:02.080 family reunion and Thanksgiving and a little farm outside of 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.000 Holly Springs, Mississippi, and one of my uncles put me 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.400 on a horse to give becoming. All the kids ride, 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:09.959 and the horse reared up, threw me off, stepped in 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.319 my face, and I lost an eye. Valued lucky the 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.360 horse didn't kill me, So I'm lucky that all I 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.760 did was lose an eye. But having a artificial eye 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:21.760 growing up made me a bit of an outsider. I 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.120 was the kid with the glass eye, and kids are 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:28.440 not young kids especially can be extraordinarily cruel, not accepting. 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:33.360 But I think that experience gave me the feeling of 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.040 what it feels like to be on the outside, what 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.079 it feels like to be an outsider. Gave me a 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.160 little bit of detachment from being on the inside and 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:45.240 allowed me to sort of grow into being myself. Probably 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:49.240 helped with my empathy and developing that, and I think 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.240 I probably wouldn't be anywhere near the human being I 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.680 am without having had that what you would consider to 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:58.720 be a you know, a personal disaster. But ultimately, I 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:00.760 think if I look back on my life and say, 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.920 why am I here at this point instead of somewhere else. 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:05.840 I have to attribute a lot of it to what 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:09.040 I got out of being the kid with one eye. Wow. 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.679 Were there any other children that you grew up with 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:16.400 who had either a disability or had some other challenge 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:18.040 that they were dealing with or were you Were you 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:22.200 really isolated in that experience? I was probably the kid 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.040 with the problem. I mean, I think today we would 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.720 probably identify some of the kids as having dyslexia. You know, 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:31.079 dyslexia was undiagnosed back then, and you know, you had 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:34.160 these kids that were thought to be dumb that we're 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.880 not all done. They were brilliant, but they had dyslexia, 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:39.280 and so the issues like that that I look back 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.839 on now and gosh, it's very clear what was going on, 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.360 But at the time it was more physical. Do you 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.480 have an arm, a leg, ni or something missing? It 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.280 was isolated, but it was also allowed me to build 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:55.120 who I am, and I certainly wouldn't trade it for anything. Now. Yeah, 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.319 what person, place, or experience, most of all to do 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.079 your life my mom and dad. I couldn't have asked 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.520 for a better childhood. If you know, there's a parental 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.600 lottery I certainly wanted. And you know, I lived in 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.640 a house where the words you couldn't say was hate. 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.040 We don't hate anything, honey, And it really set me 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.200 on the course. I'm not saying I've lived up to 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:32.439 all those expectations, but I have them at my core, 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.240 and I I am very grateful for him, and I 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:37.800 think that certainly shaped me. I also think I have 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:39.560 to say I was shaped by I grew up in 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:43.840 Mississippi in the fifties and sixties, which was segregated. When 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.679 I started school, there were black and white schools. There 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:51.400 were colored only bathrooms and white only bathrooms. When I 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:55.160 graduated from high school, our school was about fifty fifty white, black. 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:58.440 So everything happened in that period. I was going to 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:00.680 school in the Civil rights move But so you know, 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.040 everybody's influenced I think by whatever, that big thing that 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:08.040 overhangs them in their childhood, and that probably for me 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:10.320 was the one that hit me the most. And so 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.560 as a result, I sort of still see that in 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.560 society and and look forward and notice it. Did you 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.520 talk about the civil rights movement with your parents, like 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.080 did they address it with you or was it more experiential. 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.720 Oh yeah, and my family, it was a big issue, 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.160 and everybody there was working on it, at least the 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.280 people I knew, working and trying to work for change. 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:37.240 My dad was a Methodist minister, and in Mississippi they 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.559 had a Black They have conferences in the Methodist Church, 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:42.600 and they had a Black conference and a White conference 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:46.000 of the same geographic area. And my dad made it 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.880 his mission to integrate the two and to combine them, 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.320 which meant the Ku Klux planking. After my dad a 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:52.960 few times when I was a little young to sort 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.079 of understand the impact of that when that was going on, 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.240 and then after they merged that, my dad was in 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.840 the by that time in the acutive branch of the 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.160 church and worked on trying on what he called reconciliation, 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.280 is trying to get people to join together and sort 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.240 of you know, move past it, and you know, mentors 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.680 some of the black ministers as they went into some 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:16.439 predominantly white churches and really tried to change the tenor 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.959 of things. But there are, you know, awful stories to 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.240 go with it too. My mother's first cousin, who she 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.200 was very close to it or like a brother, was 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:28.240 the school superintendent Philadelphia, Mississippi, and he had thrown some 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.920 clansman's kid out of school for harassing a black child, 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.840 and they came one Friday night, shot up his daughter's bedroom, 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.520 and my mother's cousin want up committing suicide and just 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.240 sort of couldn't see a way out, felt torn between 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.680 doing the right thing and protecting his family. And they're 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.760 awful stories like that, and you know, certainly, you know 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.120 that pales in comparison to the stories that the black 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:54.480 community suffered through and the horrors that they dealt with 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.000 and the degradation. I think for all of us who 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.680 were there. My mom and I were watching them mpr 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.120 s along the Civil rights movement in the nineties. We 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:04.520 were in New York and watching it together and my 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.640 mother turned to me with tears and just go she said, 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:10.960 For the life of me, I can't imagine how we 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.000 let that go on. And I think there's something in that. 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.600 When you grow up in things a certain way, at 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.240 what point do you look around and say, hey, this 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:21.880 isn't right. And the lesson I've tried to take out 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.040 of it that goes beyond this is what am I 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.720 seeing today that's not right? But I'm just not noticing 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.120 because it's quote unquote normal, and I think there's probably 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:32.920 a lot of them I'm not even seeing right now, 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.600 but I at least try to look for those. And 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:38.160 as we look in the world, is what is happening 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:41.720 that's not right? What moment do you notice it? And 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.080 then when you notice it, what do you do about it? 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.920 But I think as human beings, we all have that obligation. 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.240 And unfortunately, unfortunately I have something in my past that 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:52.680 was so horrible and the fact that my mother looking 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:54.640 at me at that time, I mean I still remember 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:56.600 that and saying, yeah, my mother grew up in and 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:00.320 sort of didn't see it, didn't sort of see what 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.320 was possible and uh, and then did take an action 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.320 and they could have people have seen it earlier. Do 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:10.800 you look today and do you feel whether it's a 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.600 similar or maybe it's akin to the ground swell of 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:17.520 change that is hopefully happening in some of the systemic 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.840 ship that exists in our world. Like having seen things 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.800 really shift in the sixties, do you think that that's 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:28.320 playing out now? You know, present world collapse? Yeah, you 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.360 know what I think we're finding. You know, there are 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.280 things that are falling apart, and there are things that 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.800 are growing and blossoming. My dad used to talk about 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.040 and I talked about somebody did something terrible. He says, well, 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.560 I believe in the redemptive power of love, and he 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.520 was talking about forgiveness, that we should all have an 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.600 open heart to forgive, because if somebody says something wrong 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.960 to someone, hey, here's what's wrong with that, and give 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.400 them the chance to say, wow, you're right, I'm sorry, 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:56.200 and sorry means something. Apologies do mean something. I mean, 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.520 I love the old things, slow to blame, quick to forgive. 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:01.960 I think there's always a room for them, and always 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.600 room for love and our hearts to accept that people. Basically, 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:07.880 I think most people want to do good. I think 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:10.280 most people want to do the right thing. There was 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.520 time at which, you know, and I'm sure we've all 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:14.680 had it, which I've been in a meeting, someone says 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.360 something and it's off, and after the meeting, I'll say, 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.520 you know, I know you maybe didn't realize it, but 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:23.679 you said this, And almost always they're horrified. They're mortified. 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.600 They go, I didn't even realize that. I didn't see 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.600 it that way. I feel so badly, and so I 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.960 think that's actually most people's feelings. And at work, I 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:35.760 try and push upon our people that don't be afraid 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.119 of the mistake because we learned from it. I forget 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.800 who it was said I either win or I learned something. 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.880 And I preached to my kids that, you know, a 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.600 failure and success are the same thing. They're just a 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.120 stepping stone. They're not the end. And what we call 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:50.960 the failures, I step on that stone and I go 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.359 another direction on what we call it success. I step 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.160 on that stone and keep going in the same direction. 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.760 But those aren't the ends. They're just merely a step 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.760 on the journey. And I think if we can wrap 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.560 our heads around the fact that we're constantly moving, we're 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.520 constantly growing, we're constantly changing, then it allows us to 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:12.280 be a little more gracious with our forgiveness and our understanding. 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.880 Being a preacher's kid, always remember vengeance as mind say 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.520 of the Lord, Wait, what does that mean? Vengeance's mind? 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.200 That God was like, only I can have vengeance. Don't 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.120 have vengeance. That that's not for humans to have, that's 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.160 not for you people. Yeah, yeah, God, I wish he'd 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.919 I wish you'd given us a proper list. This is 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.720 really not your cast out because he ate from the 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.320 tree of knowledge. I want a really specific list. It's 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:38.080 why I do this podcast because I like very specific questions, 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.320 so I can have very specific answers and try and 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:49.960 understand the meaning of everything. What relationship, real or fictionalized, 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:52.960 defines love for you? I think it has to be 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.560 a mother child relationship, which is one of the most beautiful, 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.879 pure relationships I've ever seen. I mean, I'd love to 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:01.520 say it's dad gile because I love my kids and 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.720 I hope they love me as much as I love them. 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:05.919 But I actually think there's something about the mother and 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.679 child childbirth with a child, I mean, that experience that 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.800 just sort of indescribable bond I think is pretty polperful. 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:15.880 It's sort of hard to imagine love could be any 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:19.600 deeper and impurer than that. Was that observable because you 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:21.600 were there at the birth of your children, or because 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.840 you've observed their relationship with their mother. I think both, 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:28.680 and also the relationship with my mother and watching other 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:31.320 people with their mother. I have a close friend who 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:35.000 was the victim of just a awful abuse as a child, 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:36.840 and I said, how do you cope with it? And 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.520 she said, I think about that abuser as once was 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:44.560 just a baby and their mother loved that person, and 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.400 I try and take it back to love as opposed 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.320 to what they became, and I go, wow, that is 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.760 like so advanced, because I'm not sure I could ever 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.560 bring myself to do that, but I do think this idea, 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:56.760 and it was one of the ones that sort of 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:58.879 keep me in and sort of focused me again on 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:02.320 that mother child old love. It being so pure that 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:04.840 it's what we sort of all aspire to in some 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.760 form or another. That's so interesting. I mean, I think 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.000 you're right, like there is it's unadulterated, you know. It 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:15.520 is the version of unconditional. Yea completely unconditional, and it 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:19.159 may turn into something that gets distorted over time, but 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.360 at that moment, it's this sort of truly unconditional love. 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.320 I hope what we all can achieve and strive for. Yeah, 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:27.960 the sure looks like some people don't want to strive 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:31.000 for that, or they don't know the power of it, 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.800 you know, you see, unconditionally except for and no, no, 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:37.760 there's not no except for Look, it's easier for me 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:39.960 to talk about it because I had that for my 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:42.320 mother and I know people that didn't have it from 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.200 their parents. It's a much more difficult experience for them. 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:47.800 You know, it's the regret of parenting issues. But if 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.119 you've got it, you can always call upon it. And 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:54.040 it's that sense that it's always there omnipresent gives you 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:57.439