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Speaker 1: Bob, Well, I'm so grateful for your time and your wisdom. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know whether there's any wisdom, but I always

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Speaker 1: enjoyed talking about these kinds of topics because usually we

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Speaker 1: don't in life, and to me, these are probably the

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Speaker 1: most important topics that we can talk about because the

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Speaker 1: foundation of our life. Yeah, exactly. And I do really

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Speaker 1: believe in the sharing of experience because it's identifiable. It's

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Speaker 1: it reminds us that we're part of something that, however

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Speaker 1: isolated we feel. There are people, you know, you would

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Speaker 1: be identifiable as an extraordinarily successful person, but it's good

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Speaker 1: to know that you are a person to best compliment,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to have thank you. Hello, I'm Mini Driver.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Many Questions Season two. I've always loved Christ's Questionnaire.

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Speaker 1: It was originally a nineteenth century parlor game where players

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Speaker 1: would ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing

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Speaker 1: the other player's true nature. It's just the scientific method really.

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Speaker 1: In asking different people the same set of questions, you

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Speaker 1: can make observations about which truths appeared to be universal.

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Speaker 1: I love this discipline and it made me wonder what

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Speaker 1: if these questions were just the jumping off point, what

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Speaker 1: greater depths would be revealed if I ask these questions

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Speaker 1: as conversation starters with thought leaders and trailblazers across all

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Speaker 1: these different disciplines. So I adapted prus questionnaire and I

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Speaker 1: wrote my own seven questions that I personally think a

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Speaker 1: pertinent to a person's story. They are when and where

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Speaker 1: were you happiest? What is the quality you like least

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Speaker 1: about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you?

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Speaker 1: What question would you most like answered, What person, place,

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Speaker 1: or experience has shaped you the most? What would be

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Speaker 1: your last meal? And can you tell me something in

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Speaker 1: your life that's grown out of a personal disaster. And

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Speaker 1: I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that

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Speaker 1: I am honored and humbled to have had the chance

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Speaker 1: to engage with. You may not hear their answers to

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Speaker 1: all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to

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Speaker 1: which questions felt closest to their experience or the most surprising,

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Speaker 1: or created the most fertile ground to connect. My guest

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Speaker 1: today on many questions is the co founder of MTV

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Speaker 1: and I Heeart Media, where he is the current chairman

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Speaker 1: Bob Pittman. Bob is a media entrepreneur who feels to

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Speaker 1: me like he's sort of in a league of his own.

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Speaker 1: He's had so many interesting and creative incarnations in a

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Speaker 1: ton of consumer focused industries. Just to give you an idea,

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Speaker 1: Bob has been CEO of a Well Networks, six Flags,

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Speaker 1: Theme Parks, Century to any One real Estate, and a

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Speaker 1: World Time Warner, as well as being CEO of clear Channel,

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Speaker 1: which was what evolved and expanded into the current I

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Speaker 1: Heeart media. So it's extraordinarily varied. He's one of the

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Speaker 1: most interested people I've ever met, and when you're having

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Speaker 1: a conversation with him, ideas sort of spark off each other,

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Speaker 1: creating this brilliant feeling of forward momentum. And given the

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Speaker 1: scope of his success, it feels like, you know, he

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Speaker 1: could probably sit back and enjoy the extraordinarily diverse fruits

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Speaker 1: of his labor. But whenever we speak, I always get

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Speaker 1: to see the perspective of a person who is constantly

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Speaker 1: looking forward and is interested in the exploration and unfolding

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Speaker 1: of life, not just business. It feels like a weird

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Speaker 1: time to be asking this first question, but it's always

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Speaker 1: pertinent within peacetime or war, But when and where were

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Speaker 1: you happiest. I hope that I'm happiest right now. Someone

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Speaker 1: told me when I was a young man, said, you know,

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Speaker 1: most people never live because they're in the past, with

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Speaker 1: their regrets, in the future, with their worries, and they

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Speaker 1: never get right here, right now. And so I try, I,

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Speaker 1: as a human, not always successful, to sort of understand

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Speaker 1: that and try and be happy wherever I am, whatever

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Speaker 1: I'm doing, and at the moment I'm alive. I've had

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Speaker 1: a lot of happy moments, but I want this to

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Speaker 1: be the happiest moment, and I want to appreciate this

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Speaker 1: moment the most of any moment I could have. Is

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Speaker 1: that part of the contingency of happiness fear is presence

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Speaker 1: and appreciation. It's just a good way to say it,

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Speaker 1: I think so. But it's also I just don't want

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Speaker 1: to think, well that I was happy, then why am

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Speaker 1: I not happy now? I mean to me, happiness is

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Speaker 1: one of those things that I can either choose to

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Speaker 1: be happy or I can choose to be unhappy. And

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Speaker 1: how do I get myself in a frame where I

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Speaker 1: just look at things and go I'm happy. I'm feeling good.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Yeah, I mean sometimes just saying it.

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Speaker 1: It's tricky with circumstance not lining up with one's expectations.

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Speaker 1: And even though I think that expectation might be the

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Speaker 1: deadliest psychological weapon that we have against ourselves, of expecting

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Speaker 1: reality to conform to what it is we want as

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Speaker 1: opposed to being in the business of what it is,

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think I think one of

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Speaker 1: the worst things we do. And it's gonna sound very weird,

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Speaker 1: and I don't mean it this extreme, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: say it this extreme. The worst thing we do is plan.

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Speaker 1: Plans don't come true. Something wonderful can happen. But you know,

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Speaker 1: plan we sort of develop, I think to reduce our

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Speaker 1: fear of the future and our anxiety about the future.

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Speaker 1: But to me, you know, I do I have a plan.

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Speaker 1: Of course, in business, I've got to a game plan

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Speaker 1: we lay out the year. But it's interesting. Even at work,

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Speaker 1: we have a weekly meeting what we call our strat

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Speaker 1: com and it's the senior leaders of the company, and

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Speaker 1: the goal is to adjust the plan because we know

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Speaker 1: no plan, and even in a week the plan has

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Speaker 1: changed that this plan is not going to come true,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the plans, I hope it's a dream.

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Speaker 1: It's an you know, as you say, an expectation. But

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Speaker 1: I think sometimes we get ourselves off track by saying

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Speaker 1: I plan something, and I'm unhappy because it didn't come

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Speaker 1: out as planned. Wait a minute, you made the plan. One,

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Speaker 1: you make another plan. Make a plan work about exactly

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Speaker 1: as you want. It bedevils a lot of people and

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Speaker 1: leads people astray from their own enjoyment of this journey

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Speaker 1: we have called life, you know. And at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, this thing, it ends the same way

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Speaker 1: no matter what we do. You know, most business they go,

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Speaker 1: you know, the means, it's not important, it's just the end.

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Speaker 1: What are you gonna do? Life, it's the opposite. The

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Speaker 1: ends the same no matter what you do. So it's

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Speaker 1: all about the journey. And I think if we can

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Speaker 1: begin to get an appreciation of that journey, it not

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Speaker 1: only makes it better for us spiritually, mentally, etcetera, but

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Speaker 1: also even in business, it makes it better because which

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Speaker 1: is realistic about there's so many variables you can't control,

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Speaker 1: stop trying to control. But if we know these things,

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Speaker 1: why do we persist? Then with the expectation of circumstance,

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Speaker 1: either conforming to the idea that we have about what

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Speaker 1: a good version of that is, like when everything does

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Speaker 1: as we've just seen in the last two years, how

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Speaker 1: things come apart in an instant. Why are we still

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Speaker 1: so attached as humans to this idea of it working

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Speaker 1: out as we envision it, as opposed to going, let

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Speaker 1: me stay incredibly loose and fluid with the vessel that

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Speaker 1: the things I want is going to come to me,

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Speaker 1: and because maybe it's going to be different. I think

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Speaker 1: the ambiguity and the randomness makes people very anxious. And

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Speaker 1: I'm comfortable, and I think if they can do a

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Speaker 1: plan and say I've got my five year plan, I've

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Speaker 1: got my one year plan, I have my weak plan,

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Speaker 1: I know what I'm gonna do, I know what's coming

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Speaker 1: for me, it goes ah. I've reduced the anxiety, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's healthy. But I will tell you

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Speaker 1: some people criticize me because a year so ambiguous, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're not being clear, And I go, I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: be realistic that there's only so much that's knowable in life.

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Speaker 1: I think is more of a random walk than it

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Speaker 1: is a planned experience. I look back, and you know,

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Speaker 1: even talking about business, I look back on my business

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Speaker 1: career and go, gosh, it's been a series of meteors

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Speaker 1: flying out of the sky and hitting me on the head.

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Speaker 1: It's that kind of randomness that my career has been about.

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Speaker 1: And when I was a young man and I thought

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Speaker 1: I had a plan, that plan fell apart really quickly,

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Speaker 1: and thank goodness, I sort of opened my mind to say, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'll do that. Then if that's popping up, and

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Speaker 1: in my personal life as well, is you know, you think, gosh,

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Speaker 1: I know what's going to be great for my kids.

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Speaker 1: I know what my kids should do. I know what

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Speaker 1: school is, you could do. M Wow. It's like that's

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Speaker 1: not at all what happens. And if I try and

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Speaker 1: force my kids into my plan for them, I'm not

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Speaker 1: doing them a favor and I'm not doing anything for

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Speaker 1: my relationship with them. It's this idea of how do

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Speaker 1: I do active listening and really try and understand the

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Speaker 1: moment and where they are and how I can support

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Speaker 1: them as opposed to try and get them to conform

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Speaker 1: to my plan. Yeah. I think it's actually the secret

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Speaker 1: of happiness. In fact, that's what I think happiness is

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Speaker 1: is being able to let go of what you think

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Speaker 1: happiness should be and allow it to be what is

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Speaker 1: and fit yourself. There's a great quote I can't remember

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Speaker 1: who's William James or something about our experience is what

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Speaker 1: we attend to j unit. If you look at something,

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Speaker 1: it can only look like this. And my happiness and

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Speaker 1: my everything, my business, my relationship, my everything is hung

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Speaker 1: on it looking this way. Well, it's It's also one

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Speaker 1: of those saying as reality is what you perceive it

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Speaker 1: to be. And you know this whole discussion now about

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Speaker 1: is does the universe create consciousness or does consciousness create

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Speaker 1: the universe? I mean you get the very fundamental levels

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Speaker 1: of existence and and so you know, when you get

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Speaker 1: down the happiness is. I think the challenge is to

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Speaker 1: be happy with what we have, when we have it,

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Speaker 1: how we have it, and to accept happiness as opposed

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Speaker 1: to reject happiness. I agree so eleanor Roosevelt. People are

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Speaker 1: as happy as they make up their mind to be.

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Speaker 1: I like that. I always say that, Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 1: very good line. She was cool. I liked her, Yes,

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Speaker 1: she was very cool. In your life. Can you tell

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Speaker 1: me about something that has grown out of a personal disaster. Sure,

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Speaker 1: when I was six years old, I was at a

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Speaker 1: family reunion and Thanksgiving and a little farm outside of

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Speaker 1: Holly Springs, Mississippi, and one of my uncles put me

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Speaker 1: on a horse to give becoming. All the kids ride,

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Speaker 1: and the horse reared up, threw me off, stepped in

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Speaker 1: my face, and I lost an eye. Valued lucky the

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Speaker 1: horse didn't kill me, So I'm lucky that all I

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Speaker 1: did was lose an eye. But having a artificial eye

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Speaker 1: growing up made me a bit of an outsider. I

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Speaker 1: was the kid with the glass eye, and kids are

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Speaker 1: not young kids especially can be extraordinarily cruel, not accepting.

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Speaker 1: But I think that experience gave me the feeling of

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Speaker 1: what it feels like to be on the outside, what

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Speaker 1: it feels like to be an outsider. Gave me a

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Speaker 1: little bit of detachment from being on the inside and

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Speaker 1: allowed me to sort of grow into being myself. Probably

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Speaker 1: helped with my empathy and developing that, and I think

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Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't be anywhere near the human being I

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Speaker 1: am without having had that what you would consider to

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Speaker 1: be a you know, a personal disaster. But ultimately, I

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Speaker 1: think if I look back on my life and say,

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Speaker 1: why am I here at this point instead of somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: I have to attribute a lot of it to what

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Speaker 1: I got out of being the kid with one eye. Wow.

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Speaker 1: Were there any other children that you grew up with

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Speaker 1: who had either a disability or had some other challenge

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Speaker 1: that they were dealing with or were you Were you

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Speaker 1: really isolated in that experience? I was probably the kid

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Speaker 1: with the problem. I mean, I think today we would

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Speaker 1: probably identify some of the kids as having dyslexia. You know,

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Speaker 1: dyslexia was undiagnosed back then, and you know, you had

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Speaker 1: these kids that were thought to be dumb that we're

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Speaker 1: not all done. They were brilliant, but they had dyslexia,

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Speaker 1: and so the issues like that that I look back

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Speaker 1: on now and gosh, it's very clear what was going on,

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Speaker 1: But at the time it was more physical. Do you

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Speaker 1: have an arm, a leg, ni or something missing? It

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Speaker 1: was isolated, but it was also allowed me to build

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Speaker 1: who I am, and I certainly wouldn't trade it for anything. Now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what person, place, or experience, most of all to do

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Speaker 1: your life my mom and dad. I couldn't have asked

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Speaker 1: for a better childhood. If you know, there's a parental

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Speaker 1: lottery I certainly wanted. And you know, I lived in

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Speaker 1: a house where the words you couldn't say was hate.

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Speaker 1: We don't hate anything, honey, And it really set me

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Speaker 1: on the course. I'm not saying I've lived up to

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Speaker 1: all those expectations, but I have them at my core,

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Speaker 1: and I I am very grateful for him, and I

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Speaker 1: think that certainly shaped me. I also think I have

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Speaker 1: to say I was shaped by I grew up in

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Speaker 1: Mississippi in the fifties and sixties, which was segregated. When

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Speaker 1: I started school, there were black and white schools. There

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Speaker 1: were colored only bathrooms and white only bathrooms. When I

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Speaker 1: graduated from high school, our school was about fifty fifty white, black.

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Speaker 1: So everything happened in that period. I was going to

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Speaker 1: school in the Civil rights move But so you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody's influenced I think by whatever, that big thing that

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Speaker 1: overhangs them in their childhood, and that probably for me

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Speaker 1: was the one that hit me the most. And so

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Speaker 1: as a result, I sort of still see that in

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Speaker 1: society and and look forward and notice it. Did you

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Speaker 1: talk about the civil rights movement with your parents, like

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Speaker 1: did they address it with you or was it more experiential.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and my family, it was a big issue,

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Speaker 1: and everybody there was working on it, at least the

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Speaker 1: people I knew, working and trying to work for change.

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Speaker 1: My dad was a Methodist minister, and in Mississippi they

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Speaker 1: had a Black They have conferences in the Methodist Church,

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Speaker 1: and they had a Black conference and a White conference

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Speaker 1: of the same geographic area. And my dad made it

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Speaker 1: his mission to integrate the two and to combine them,

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Speaker 1: which meant the Ku Klux planking. After my dad a

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Speaker 1: few times when I was a little young to sort

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Speaker 1: of understand the impact of that when that was going on,

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Speaker 1: and then after they merged that, my dad was in

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Speaker 1: the by that time in the acutive branch of the

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Speaker 1: church and worked on trying on what he called reconciliation,

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Speaker 1: is trying to get people to join together and sort

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Speaker 1: of you know, move past it, and you know, mentors

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Speaker 1: some of the black ministers as they went into some

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Speaker 1: predominantly white churches and really tried to change the tenor

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Speaker 1: of things. But there are, you know, awful stories to

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Speaker 1: go with it too. My mother's first cousin, who she

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Speaker 1: was very close to it or like a brother, was

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Speaker 1: the school superintendent Philadelphia, Mississippi, and he had thrown some

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Speaker 1: clansman's kid out of school for harassing a black child,

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Speaker 1: and they came one Friday night, shot up his daughter's bedroom,

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Speaker 1: and my mother's cousin want up committing suicide and just

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Speaker 1: sort of couldn't see a way out, felt torn between

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Speaker 1: doing the right thing and protecting his family. And they're

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Speaker 1: awful stories like that, and you know, certainly, you know

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Speaker 1: that pales in comparison to the stories that the black

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Speaker 1: community suffered through and the horrors that they dealt with

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Speaker 1: and the degradation. I think for all of us who

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Speaker 1: were there. My mom and I were watching them mpr

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Speaker 1: s along the Civil rights movement in the nineties. We

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Speaker 1: were in New York and watching it together and my

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Speaker 1: mother turned to me with tears and just go she said,

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Speaker 1: For the life of me, I can't imagine how we

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Speaker 1: let that go on. And I think there's something in that.

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Speaker 1: When you grow up in things a certain way, at

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Speaker 1: what point do you look around and say, hey, this

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Speaker 1: isn't right. And the lesson I've tried to take out

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Speaker 1: of it that goes beyond this is what am I

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Speaker 1: seeing today that's not right? But I'm just not noticing

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Speaker 1: because it's quote unquote normal, and I think there's probably

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Speaker 1: a lot of them I'm not even seeing right now,

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Speaker 1: but I at least try to look for those. And

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Speaker 1: as we look in the world, is what is happening

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Speaker 1: that's not right? What moment do you notice it? And

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Speaker 1: then when you notice it, what do you do about it?

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Speaker 1: But I think as human beings, we all have that obligation.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, unfortunately I have something in my past that

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Speaker 1: was so horrible and the fact that my mother looking

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Speaker 1: at me at that time, I mean I still remember

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Speaker 1: that and saying, yeah, my mother grew up in and

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Speaker 1: sort of didn't see it, didn't sort of see what

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Speaker 1: was possible and uh, and then did take an action

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Speaker 1: and they could have people have seen it earlier. Do

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Speaker 1: you look today and do you feel whether it's a

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Speaker 1: similar or maybe it's akin to the ground swell of

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Speaker 1: change that is hopefully happening in some of the systemic

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Speaker 1: ship that exists in our world. Like having seen things

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Speaker 1: really shift in the sixties, do you think that that's

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Speaker 1: playing out now? You know, present world collapse? Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: know what I think we're finding. You know, there are

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Speaker 1: things that are falling apart, and there are things that

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Speaker 1: are growing and blossoming. My dad used to talk about

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Speaker 1: and I talked about somebody did something terrible. He says, well,

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Speaker 1: I believe in the redemptive power of love, and he

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Speaker 1: was talking about forgiveness, that we should all have an

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Speaker 1: open heart to forgive, because if somebody says something wrong

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Speaker 1: to someone, hey, here's what's wrong with that, and give

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Speaker 1: them the chance to say, wow, you're right, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: and sorry means something. Apologies do mean something. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I love the old things, slow to blame, quick to forgive.

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Speaker 1: I think there's always a room for them, and always

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Speaker 1: room for love and our hearts to accept that people. Basically,

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Speaker 1: I think most people want to do good. I think

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Speaker 1: most people want to do the right thing. There was

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Speaker 1: time at which, you know, and I'm sure we've all

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Speaker 1: had it, which I've been in a meeting, someone says

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Speaker 1: something and it's off, and after the meeting, I'll say,

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Speaker 1: you know, I know you maybe didn't realize it, but

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Speaker 1: you said this, And almost always they're horrified. They're mortified.

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Speaker 1: They go, I didn't even realize that. I didn't see

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Speaker 1: it that way. I feel so badly, and so I

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Speaker 1: think that's actually most people's feelings. And at work, I

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Speaker 1: try and push upon our people that don't be afraid

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Speaker 1: of the mistake because we learned from it. I forget

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Speaker 1: who it was said I either win or I learned something.

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Speaker 1: And I preached to my kids that, you know, a

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Speaker 1: failure and success are the same thing. They're just a

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Speaker 1: stepping stone. They're not the end. And what we call

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Speaker 1: the failures, I step on that stone and I go

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Speaker 1: another direction on what we call it success. I step

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Speaker 1: on that stone and keep going in the same direction.

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Speaker 1: But those aren't the ends. They're just merely a step

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Speaker 1: on the journey. And I think if we can wrap

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Speaker 1: our heads around the fact that we're constantly moving, we're

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Speaker 1: constantly growing, we're constantly changing, then it allows us to

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Speaker 1: be a little more gracious with our forgiveness and our understanding.

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Speaker 1: Being a preacher's kid, always remember vengeance as mind say

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Speaker 1: of the Lord, Wait, what does that mean? Vengeance's mind?

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Speaker 1: That God was like, only I can have vengeance. Don't

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Speaker 1: have vengeance. That that's not for humans to have, that's

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Speaker 1: not for you people. Yeah, yeah, God, I wish he'd

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Speaker 1: I wish you'd given us a proper list. This is

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Speaker 1: really not your cast out because he ate from the

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Speaker 1: tree of knowledge. I want a really specific list. It's

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Speaker 1: why I do this podcast because I like very specific questions,

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Speaker 1: so I can have very specific answers and try and

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Speaker 1: understand the meaning of everything. What relationship, real or fictionalized,

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Speaker 1: defines love for you? I think it has to be

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Speaker 1: a mother child relationship, which is one of the most beautiful,

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Speaker 1: pure relationships I've ever seen. I mean, I'd love to

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Speaker 1: say it's dad gile because I love my kids and

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Speaker 1: I hope they love me as much as I love them.

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Speaker 1: But I actually think there's something about the mother and

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Speaker 1: child childbirth with a child, I mean, that experience that

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Speaker 1: just sort of indescribable bond I think is pretty polperful.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of hard to imagine love could be any

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Speaker 1: deeper and impurer than that. Was that observable because you

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Speaker 1: were there at the birth of your children, or because

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Speaker 1: you've observed their relationship with their mother. I think both,

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Speaker 1: and also the relationship with my mother and watching other

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Speaker 1: people with their mother. I have a close friend who

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Speaker 1: was the victim of just a awful abuse as a child,

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Speaker 1: and I said, how do you cope with it? And

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Speaker 1: she said, I think about that abuser as once was

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Speaker 1: just a baby and their mother loved that person, and

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Speaker 1: I try and take it back to love as opposed

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Speaker 1: to what they became, and I go, wow, that is

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Speaker 1: like so advanced, because I'm not sure I could ever

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Speaker 1: bring myself to do that, but I do think this idea,

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Speaker 1: and it was one of the ones that sort of

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Speaker 1: keep me in and sort of focused me again on

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Speaker 1: that mother child old love. It being so pure that

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Speaker 1: it's what we sort of all aspire to in some

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Speaker 1: form or another. That's so interesting. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: you're right, like there is it's unadulterated, you know. It

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Speaker 1: is the version of unconditional. Yea completely unconditional, and it

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Speaker 1: may turn into something that gets distorted over time, but

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Speaker 1: at that moment, it's this sort of truly unconditional love.

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Speaker 1: I hope what we all can achieve and strive for. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the sure looks like some people don't want to strive

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Speaker 1: for that, or they don't know the power of it,

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Speaker 1: you know, you see, unconditionally except for and no, no,

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Speaker 1: there's not no except for Look, it's easier for me

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Speaker 1: to talk about it because I had that for my

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Speaker 1: mother and I know people that didn't have it from

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Speaker 1: their parents. It's a much more difficult experience for them.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's the regret of parenting issues. But if

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Speaker 1: you've got it, you can always call upon it. And

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Speaker 1: it's that sense that it's always there omnipresent gives you

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Speaker 1: this security to go through your life with sort of

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Speaker 1: a base. And I think people who have not been

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Speaker 1: even that gift have a lot of work they've got

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Speaker 1: to do that. Fortunately I don't have to do. So

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Speaker 1: I'm not judgmental about the issues they deal with because

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Speaker 1: I understand that they're going through something that I can't

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Speaker 1: totally relate to. It's funny, I think about a lot,

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Speaker 1: maybe since Mom died, the love for a mother and

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Speaker 1: the love for my child. It's like, what's it cooled?

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Speaker 1: Is it a double helix? The shape of the DNA

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Speaker 1: keeps going, Yeah, So what quality do you like? Least

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Speaker 1: about yourself? Lack of patience? I run things too quickly.

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Speaker 1: I want to move too quickly through things. I don't

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Speaker 1: sometimes take the time. We're just talking about active listening, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: I keep wanting to jump to a conclusion and jump

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Speaker 1: to an action, and jump to the next step and

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Speaker 1: not sort of savor at the moment, take the time

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Speaker 1: to sort of let it all unfold and blossom. So

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Speaker 1: patience is not a virtue of mine, but I work

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Speaker 1: hard at trying to compensate. When you're impatient, what are

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Speaker 1: you impatient to get to? That's exactly the point. Nothing.

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Speaker 1: There's no reason to have that impatience. I can take

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Speaker 1: a beat, I can listen a little longer. I think

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Speaker 1: a beat between the last thing someone says and what

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Speaker 1: I say. I can think about it a second. I

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Speaker 1: tend to move too quickly to action, and again I

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Speaker 1: try and modulate it. I have some degree of self

428
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: awareness that may have self control, and I do work

429
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: on that. Going back to the point about happiness, it

430
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 1: does interfere with my happiness and others happiness. If they

431
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 1: feel like I'm not listening to them enough and I

432
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: have taken the time to truly consider everything they have,

433
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: it sounds like I'm moving too quickly to a conclusion. Uh,

434
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: it's harder for them to be happy, and it's harder

435
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: for me to be happy. Do you think there's anything

436
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 1: other than catching oneself in the moment of doing these

437
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 1: things that we would like to change? About ourselves that

438
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: when you're doing it and having an awareness of it

439
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 1: is how it evolves. I can have some self awareness

440
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: and began to control it to a certain degree. I

441
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: stopped working in two thousand and two completely, and I've

442
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: been working full time since I was fifteen years old,

443
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 1: probably never taken more than a two week vacation ever

444
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 1: in that period of time, and my vacation was like

445
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 1: long weekends or something, and always thinking about work. And

446
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 1: when I stopped working, it took me about two or

447
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: three months to come off the adrenaline addiction. And then

448
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,479
Speaker 1: I discovered that it's actually possible to be bored, and

449
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: I began to enjoy boredom and go, Wow, I'm bored

450
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: right now. I'm just gonna wallow in this boredom. And

451
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 1: I think that my patients got a lot better because

452
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: I just sort of wallowed in the moment and accepted

453
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 1: whatever it was as interesting. Boredom was suddenly interesting. Wow,

454
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: this is a great sensation boredom, and get excited about

455
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: whatever life threw me at that moment and not feel

456
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: like I had to quickly do something. You know, when

457
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: I first stopped working, if I went to the beach,

458
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: if I was lying on the beach. I go, what

459
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: am I gonna do now? What I was lying on

460
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: the beach, and then at a certain point I began

461
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 1: to go, Wow, this is great. I'm just lying here.

462
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: And it was a real transformation and gave me an

463
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: insight that I can still use even though I've gone

464
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 1: back to my adrenaline addiction and I did go back

465
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: to work, and my impatience is still a problem for me.

466
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,239
Speaker 1: I can call upon this time I had to go

467
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: boredom is good, and I should look for a little

468
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 1: more of that and a little bit of that ah

469
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: time where I don't have to process anything, I don't

470
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: have to have an opinion. I can just let life

471
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: drift over me a little bit. And that's sort of

472
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 1: the opposite of impatience. Yeah, it's interesting. We spent a

473
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: lot of time being bored when we were kids, because

474
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 1: I was you know, obviously they want cell phones and computers,

475
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: and my son sometimes I say, put the phone down

476
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: and stare out the window and see what happens. And

477
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 1: he does and he's like, it's so weird. You kind

478
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: of go into a trance. And I was like, yeah,

479
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: that was like my whole childhood. Well, you know, in

480
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: my childhood, my parents had turn off that TV, turn

481
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: off the radio. Oh, which is funny because you the

482
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: went and put the radio on television with MTV. So

483
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: there's always something that kids would occupy themselves, whether people

484
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: will rather than just enjoy ourselves and our space. And

485
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: it's hard sometimes to feel comfortable with yourself in that

486
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: space because you really have to confront your space and

487
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 1: you have to live with you. There's nothing to distract you,

488
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: there's nothing to keep you busy, there's nothing to drive

489
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 1: your ambition. But I think it's wildly helpful. And when

490
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: I can have those moments to recharge my batteries, I'm

491
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: so much better at all this other stuff that I

492
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: think is better if I keep working. But I discover

493
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: again and again it's actually better when I recharge myself

494
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: a little bit and then come back to the task.

495
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: And I find that if I'm working on a problem

496
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: or trying to come up with a creative solution, even

497
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: looking for a line in an advertising campaign, that the

498
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: best thing I can do is sort of okay, low myself.

499
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: I'll understand and then forget about it. And at that

500
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: moment where I'm in my most zen moment down in

501
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: my alpha state, which for me is about a fifteen

502
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: minute hot shower in the morning where I just like

503
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: zone out. Suddenly the answer just pop in my head.

504
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: And I have run out of the shower so many

505
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: times with a pen and a wet piece of paper

506
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: writing a speech, writing down something because it comes to me.

507
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: And I think there's a great lesson in that, which

508
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 1: is it's not going to come when you try too hard.

509
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: It's gonna come in your most relaxed moment, in which

510
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: you're just letting things drift over you. That's an enormous

511
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: amount of trust that is required to let go of,

512
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: I think, being into control. It's interesting when I was

513
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: a young man, I would give speeches, and I would

514
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: write the speeches and slavishly read them, and at a

515
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: certain point I realized I could do a much better

516
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: talk if I just got up and talked. So I

517
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: would have maybe three points scribbled down, a little note

518
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: and get up and start talking. The scary thing when

519
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: you do that is you have to go on to

520
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: your point about trust trust yourself, because suddenly I'm standing

521
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: in front of all these people and I've really thought

522
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: of nothing except a couple of things I want to

523
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: talk about, and I just go with the flow. And

524
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: I find when I do that, it's much better. It's

525
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: much more of what I really want to say. I

526
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: think people enjoy it more. It's more relevant to them.

527
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: And even sometimes we're doing a you know, I'm doing

528
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 1: a speech for the company or something, and I've got

529
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: to do that inspirational closing. I don't have any idea

530
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: what I'm going to say, and I just step out

531
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: there and start talking. And that's one of the ones

532
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: where you really have to just trust that it will

533
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: come to you. But boys, it's scary at that moment.

534
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: Now I've been doing it long enough that I probably

535
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: not scared enough. But it's just to sort of relax,

536
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: go out there and whatever is in your mind, your heart,

537
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: let it start coming out, and just trust that it

538
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 1: will be the right thing. As opposed to them, I

539
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: said the wrong word, I stumbled on a word, or

540
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: I said no one cares about any of that. I

541
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: think here about your message, well, I wholeheartedly agree, I

542
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: really do. I think that so much is about letting

543
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: go untrusting, and we don't do that. We don't because

544
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: I think I think it goes back to planning. We

545
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: think you have to have a plan, you have to

546
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: have a script, but you have to have a preordained

547
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 1: idea of what you're doing, when, like you said, it's

548
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: a random walk life. It's not prescribed. And yet I

549
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: honestly think it's fair of death. I really do. I

550
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: really think that the distraction and the planning and this

551
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: idea of control is because we know, like you said,

552
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: where this ends, this is where it's going. But if

553
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 1: we actually lived with that idea, there is a clock ticking.

554
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: Don't waste a single moment. What worrying about the moment

555
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: not looking like you think it should? I think it

556
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: is mortality. I agree with you. I think that is

557
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: a big consideration for people, and it drives us more

558
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 1: than we recognize. I didn't realize until my mom died

559
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,719
Speaker 1: that it was a huge consideration. It's actually incredible. It's

560
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: actually in an extraordinary moment because you can use it

561
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: like rocket fuel to just be that. I'm no longer

562
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: available to judge whether this looks like how it should.

563
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: In fact, the words should I've said this before and

564
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,959
Speaker 1: this podcast. My mother used to say, the words should

565
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: should be buried in a big hole in the backyard.

566
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: Your mother was very enlightened. I think the loss of

567
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: our parents does something to us. All. My mom died

568
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: in her sleep, and so I didn't get a chance

569
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: to be with her as she died. My dad was

570
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: dying and died slowly, and my brother and I sat

571
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: with him the day he died and held his hand

572
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: as he died in this weird way. It was such

573
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: a beautiful experience to be able to share that moment

574
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: with him. Because I think we're so afraid of it,

575
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: we want to avoid it. But I went on the

576
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: journey with my dad. I'm still here, but it was

577
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's a lot of talking to my dad.

578
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: It's okay, you know you can, you can let go.

579
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: We love you, and sort of all the reasons why

580
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: he had a wonderful life and why we love him

581
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: so much. And with my mother, I sort of missed

582
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,479
Speaker 1: that moment, although I had a great relationship with her

583
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: and felt very close to her, and even after her

584
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: death that's I still feel her presence. But I think

585
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: you're exactly right. It were sort of fearful that we

586
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: want to run it away. I had a house of

587
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: Mexico for about twenty years and I got to know

588
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: Day of the Dead there, which is turned out to

589
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: be one of my favorite holidays because it is so

590
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: contrary to what we do in America. And in this

591
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: little town, Sam Miguel, day and day there was a

592
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: ex pats cemetery and there was a cemetery for the locals.

593
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: And on Day of the Day, it's so sad because

594
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: there's no activity in the cemetery for the ex pats.

595
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: It's dark, and in the other they're celebrating the life

596
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: of those people and they have their food out, their

597
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: favorite songs. They're acting as if they're still alive and

598
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: still a part of them. And I just thought such

599
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: a beautiful experience to accept death and to sort of

600
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: put it into your life, as opposed to, as you

601
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: point out, spend your whole life trying to avoid the

602
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: existence of it. Bob is not only a wonderful podcast guest,

603
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: but he is also a wonderful podcast host. You can

604
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: listen to his own podcast, Math and Magic wherever you

605
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: listen to your podcasts, and while you're at it, check

606
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: out the i Heart Radio app for radio stations, music,

607
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: and more podcasts. Many Questions is hosted and written by

608
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: Me Mini Driver, Supervising producer Aaron Kaufman, Producer Morgan Lavoy,

609
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: Research assistant Marissa Brown. Original music Sorry Baby by Minni Driver,

610
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: Additional music by Aaron Kaufman. Executive produced by me Mini Driver.

611
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Jim Nikolay, Will Pearson, Addison No Day,

612
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: Lisa Castella and a Nick Oppenheim at w kPr, de

613
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: La Pescador, Kate Driver and Jason Weinberg, and for constantly

614
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: solicited tech support, Henry Driver,