WEBVTT - Computer, Mathematical Workers Remain at Home 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.239 Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.760 pm Eastern Time on the Bloomberg Radio or watch us 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:31.440 on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. A lot to get through, 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:34.200 Tim and I just talking about Michelle A. Cortez who's 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:36.000 got this story about the world may never reach herd 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:39.200 immunity against COVID. Meantime, New York cities, museums and cultural 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.040 institutions they're going to require visitors and staff to be vaccinated. 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:45.280 We got that from Mayor Bill de Blasio. Uh. And 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:47.400 then we've got fives from BioNTech saying they have submitted 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.440 tim phase one trial data to the US FDA for 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:53.040 third dose of their COVID nineteen vaccine. There's a lot 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.240 still going on. Yeah, they're showing that a third dose 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:57.840 of the vaccine led to higher levels of protective antibodies 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.880 when given eight to nine months after the original regiment. 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:03.800 Let's get right to it with Dr Tom McGinn, executive 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.080 vice president at Common Spirit Health. Common Spirit Health has 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.920 a hundred forty hospitals and more than one thousand care 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.840 sites across twenty one different states. Dr McGinn, it's it's 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:15.400 great to have you on the show. Give us an 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.319 update about what you're seeing in Common Spirit Health hospitals 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.080 right now. What's what's what's the what's the view on 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:25.720 the ground. Thanks Tim, and thanks Charlos, thanks for having 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.399 us having me on. Well, the view on the ground 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.680 is that we are seeing as no actual you know, 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.240 new news to you is that we're seeing a resurgence 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:38.640 in our hospitals in almost every market now. Uh. You know, 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.039 it was isolated, you know, in some of our regions 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.319 in the Southeast and Texas, but now we're seeing it 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:47.040 in the Northwest. Our hospitals are reaching you know, some 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.080 some real critical moments, but I think we're managing it well. 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:54.360 But we're now seeing pockets in California, in all of 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:58.040 the southeast in all of the Texas area, and now 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.560 we're seeing it in the Pacific Northwest. So you know, 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.760 we are controlling it, we're managing it, we're you know, 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:07.520 we're a lot more nimble. We have a lot more 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:09.840 algorithms and treatments that we can offer folks as they 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.800 come to the hospital. This is fundamentally a hospitalization of 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:18.880 the unvaccinated. While about ten percent are vaccinated, many of 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:23.560 those folks are folks with underlying medical conditions and things 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:25.520 to that effect. So really, what we're seeing in the 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:30.160 severe cases is a resurgence across the board of the unvaccinated. 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:31.880 So let me make sure we have this right because 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:35.320 data is really important here. Of the hospitalization is roughly 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:38.280 that you're seeing in your hospitals across the country. Those 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:42.160 are people who have not been vaccinated approximately. I mean, 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.400 it could vary from seven to fifteen or seven to 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:48.239 twelve percent, But fundamentally, I just said, let's for simplicity sake, 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:52.560 let's say, are they younger, are they older? Who are they? 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:56.560 What are the demographics? Well, you know they are the 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.960 hospitalization rates are much higher. The numbers are a little tricky. 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:03.400 We're seeing an uptick from baseline of the young folks, 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:09.120 it's increase of those getting hospitalized who are young in children, 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.080 but however, the baseline was very low. Still, the vast 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:16.160 majority of folks are older. Um many of them are, 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.000 you know, with chronic illnesses, the diabetes, the hypertension, all 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.800 the things that we learned. I was in New York 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.400 for the beginning of this phase of the pandemic and 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.200 did a lot of work on the early predictors of 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.880 who would have severe COVID. So it's that story still 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.640 plays itself out. What we're seeing is an uptick of 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:38.800 hospitalizations among young people, no question. We spoke earlier about 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:41.880 the fact that vaccines still aren't available as we go 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.160 back to school around the country to people who are 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.360 under the age of twelve, what's what's the best way 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.240 for those young kids to stay safe, the best way 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.440 for parents to think about risk factors and are we 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:58.480 seeing different data play out with younger people under the 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:02.240 age of twelves. We can't be vaccinated, so you know, 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:04.800 this is the real challenge. I I heard you speak earlier, 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.360 and I'm in agreement that we need to get the 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.360 kids back in the schools and I'm working with several 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:11.920 schools across the country, and I think we need to 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.880 just good old fashion and now what we call old 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:20.160 fashioned methods of mask wearing, social distancing, um, you know, handwashing, 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.320 all the things that we did uh early in that pandemic. 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.400 But having kids in the classroom, I think that you know, 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.680 we can get through this if we continue to follow 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.360 the basic rules of engagement around mask wearing, that that 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:35.320 really is going to be the key to success as 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:37.880 we go back into schools. I think as you and 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.200 I talked about this, and as a primary care physician, 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:43.839 I can see the stress, the anxiety, and all the 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:47.800 issues that we're creating by not going back to school. 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.559 So I really think we all need to just face 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.120 the facts. Kids are gonna need to wear masks if 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.000 they're unvaccinated, which they are, and we're gonna have to 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.880 do a lot of the same social distancing and careful 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.200 uh you know approach to this as we move into 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:05.760 the fall. And I also just want to mention that 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.720 this fall and excuse me, no, no, no, sorry, Carol, 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:11.280 I think that one thing we have to think about, 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:15.800 and I'm preparing for this across Common Spirit is the sniffles. Okay, 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:19.320 we are coming into what will likely be a regular 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.520 cold season, whether or not the flu. Remember, the flu 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.320 and the cold are two separate things. We've seen an 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.039 uptick in RSD virus, which is a specific virus that 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:31.800 is a harbinger for common colds. So we're anticipating a 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:35.080 lot of colds and sniffles mixed in with the potential flu, 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.360 mixed in with the potential covid. So how do we 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.320 test for that? How do we carefully, you know, manage 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.159 that situation is something we are all preparing for right now. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:46.919 So I just wanted to put that into think of 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.320 the child showing up at school with the runny nose, 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.080 wiping their nose in the middle of the fall. What 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.159 does that mean? How do we manage that and that 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:56.200 stuff we were all trying to figure out. Now you 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.920 call it a twin demic or potentially a twin demic season, correct, Yeah, 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:03.839 I think that, you know, we you know, we could 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:07.720 see if influenza comes up, we will see that will 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.719 be a stress on our hospitals. But I think even 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:14.159 beyond flu, I mean people very confused. I thought, oh 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:16.160 I had a bad flu, what they really means sometimes 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.760 I had a bad cold, and a cold can mask 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.880 and look a little bit like mild COVID. So how 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.960 are we going to distinguish that? Um, So we need 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:29.960 to really ramp up our testing strategies, particularly in primary 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.200 care sites, our strategies that are schools, you know, all 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.520 across the country. Do we have the equipment, Do we 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:39.080 have the supplies to do all that right? And that 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.400 stuff that we're all working on. Hey, sit tight for 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:43.480 a second, um, Dr McGain, We're going to come back 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.560 and continue the conversation. I also do wonder if we 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:50.520 just put masks on again to him down. Many companies 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:52.640 doing it right now. You have many companies saying wait 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:54.960 a second, even if you're fully vaccinated, if you're coming 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.000 back to work, uh, you have to wear a mask again, right, 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:01.360 and that'll keep hopefully maybe cold to own regular flu down, 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:03.680 keep it all down. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't matter 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:05.040 if it's a small bike shop. I was in one 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.120 yesterday where they're requiring employees to be vaccinated and wear masks, 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:09.880 or one of the big banks that announced in the 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:11.920 last couple of weeks, even if you're vaccinated, wear that mask. 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.080 All right. We're gonna come back to Dr Tom McGain 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.160 he's executive ep a physician enterprise of at Common Spirit Health. 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.440 Will continue right here on Bloomberg Radio. Let's get right 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:22.679 back to it with Dr Tom McGain, executive vice president 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:25.040 at Common Spirit Health. He joins us on the phone 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:27.400 from here in New York, a dark Common Spirit Health 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:29.800 operates a hundred and forty hospitals and more than one 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.880 thousand care sites, this across twenty one states. Dr Dr 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:38.280 McGinn um. I want to have a realistic, uh idea 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.160 of how we're going to be living with COVID for 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.760 the rest of our lives. Is this is this something 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.960 that we get inoculated against each and every year, like 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:51.360 the flu, and it fades into the background. Yeah, well, 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.560 you know, I think obviously we will learn, but I 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.640 do feel that's where we're heading. I think that as 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.920 we increase our vaccination rates, as we look the variants 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.640 and we adjust, uh you know, these vaccines, that we 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.760 will end up learning to live with COVID, just as 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.920 we learned to live with influenza. But we we are 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:12.640 getting better at this, I don't you know. I think 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:14.200 a lot of us can get caught up in in 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:15.960 sort of this is never going to go away. But 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:18.960 we are managing it. We are learning more every day 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:21.160 and I think when this servige goes down, we will 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.560 continue to be prepared for it and if we need 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:28.320 to live with it, we will learn to live with it. Right. 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.000 As our synthir Coon wrote for Business Week last week, 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.600 we talked about it on Friday. The vaccine, folks, it works. 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:37.800 You know, we need to be reminded with all of 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:41.520 these you know worry where some headlines that the vaccine 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:45.400 it actually works. Having said that, um Dr McGinn. Do 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:47.760 we need to be smart because as you said, you 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.440 know we're going to be dealing with colds and the 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:54.280 regular flu and COVID come fall that by wearing a 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:58.280 max mask excuse me, can we mitigate much of the 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:03.360 risk from those three? Well? It was amazing fall last year, 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:05.760 wasn't it? The fact that we saw almost no flu. 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:07.840 I mean many of us reflect back, Wait a minute, 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:09.480 I didn't really have a cold lest floor. How does 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.200 that happen? Uh? You know? And I think a lot 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:14.840 of it came from the mask wearing, the social distancing, 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.800 and I think as we go back to school again, 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.160 I you know, I don't I'm avoiding the whole discussion 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.600 of the political mandate of a mask, But it really 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.200 will get these kids through a false season that I 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.960 guarantee will be complex, and we are preparing for it 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.680 and we'll manage it. But I do think the mask 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.800 will reduce cold costs, flues and COVID, so it will 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.920 have a multiple effects that will be positive. It's hard 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:41.200 to think about this as the parent of a two 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:42.840 and a half year old though, as I am, because 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.280 you know, he wears a mask for five minutes and 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.120 you know he's been he's been like chewing on it 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:50.640 versus a nine year old who could totally keep a 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.360 mask on when when inside. So how do you make 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.240 sense of that? No, Well, first of all, I have 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.240 to say, you know, ChIL John, I have you know 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.000 two girls there older now their college age, and so 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.640 that has its own inherent issues. But I I'm amazed 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.120 as I work with many schools and watch kids walk 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.600 around Manhattan with their masks on. Now as you get 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.240 below you know, three years old, it gets complicated and 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:14.719 you do the best you can. I mean all we're 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.040 asking people to do. Let's do the best you can. 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.319 You know, this is not you know, something where we're 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:20.920 going to force people to do things. You do the 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.400 best you can under the circumstances. Try to put the 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.800 mask on, try to be socially distant, try to be 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:28.880 smart about it. On our side, on the public health side, 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.000 on the health system side. You know, we're a common 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.360 spirit dedicated to provide care and test and treat and 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:38.920 vaccinate in every community throughout this very diverse country that 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.200 we live in. And that's our job to figure out, 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.719 how do we test these kids when they have the sniffles, 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:47.040 how do we get them easy access to vaccinations when 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.160 they're available for the young kids, which I hope will 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:52.040 becoming sometime late in the fall, maybe early next year. 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:54.400 But you know, you do the best you can with 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:58.439 the mask and all of those efforts mitigate every little 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.679 thing we do mitigates that's bread by a little bit. Well, 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.680 that's helpful when you edit up hey just quickly thirty seconds. 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.480 Do you anticipate that in terms of an additional booster 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:09.720 for the general public, Does that happen before the end 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:14.160 of the year. I do think we're going to see 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:16.560 that and come out in a process that we just 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.200 saw some folks who are mean compromise. I would assume 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.840 healthcare workers sometime soon we started hearing. Hey, they were 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:24.720 the first ones back then, they're on the front lines. 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:26.280 Do we give them the booster. I think it's going 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:30.120 to roll itself out gradually over time. Absolutely. Hey, listen, 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.080 thank you so much. Really appreciate it, and I hope 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.360 we can get you back real soon. Dr Tom Again, 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:37.560 Executive Vice President Common Spirit Health, on the phone from 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.360 New York City. Are you going back to some of 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.800 the stuff that we were doing before we got the vaccine? Um, yes, 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.240 I am. I'm wearing a mask now in source. You know, 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:47.640 I was to the point where I would go and 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:49.720 pick up food and go to the I was always 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:51.280 wearing the grocer in the grocery store, I was wearing 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.000 a mask. But yeah, even around here in the office. 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.400 Public transportation, oh yeah, I'm still taking public transit, but 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.040 I'm wearing a mask. You have to yeah, no, yeah, 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.280 you don't have to. I would. This is Bloomberg Business 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:06.080 Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.400 on Bloomberg Radio. So I see it, I hear about it. 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.720 We know what's happening that despite some of the slowdowns 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.280 in an office reopenings because of the delta variant. There 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:17.040 are still tim a lot of us back in the office, 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.800 and yet for a certain subset of the workforce, they're 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.360 clearly staying at home. Justin Fox is a columnist for 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.680 Bloomberg Opinion. He writes about it in the upcoming issue 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:28.040 of Bloomberg Business Week magazine. You can read it now 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.440 at Bloomberg and at bloomberg dot com slash business Week. 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.760 So Justin who as people some reluctantly go back to 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:39.640 the office, UM State Street employees, notwithstanding, we should know, 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.120 correct in New York, I should say, who's staying home? 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.920 What did you What does the data tell you? UMS? 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:50.960 The group that is most stuck at home is UM 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:56.640 people in computer and mathematical operations, which is basically software engineers, 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.760 data analysts, that whole world. And it's on level. We 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.040 know this because it's the Silicon Valley companies, the tech 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.120 companies that are sort of being the slowest to come back. 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.040 But these people aren't just working in tech companies. They're 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.360 at all different kinds of companies, and it just seems 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:16.120 like more than any else, it's it's as of July 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.400 of them reported that they were still working remotely at 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.760 least part of the time because of the pandemic. But 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.959 that doesn't reflect people who were already working remotely before 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.400 the pandemic. Or you hear a lot about, especially in tech, 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:34.160 people getting hired completely remotely. Now. I don't know if 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.079 they get asked by the Census Bureau whether they're working 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:39.559 at home because of the pandemic, they may say, no, 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:41.920 I'm just working at home, dude, Right, that's how I 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.280 was hired. Hey, Jill Weber's with us of course, editor 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:47.560 of Bloomberg business Week magazine, and Joe it is, you know, 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.200 interesting on a daily basis, we are kind of parsing 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.560 out what's going on, who's coming back to work, who is, 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.559 and who can go back to work who can't? Uh, 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:59.120 And love that you guys are highlighting this. Well. When 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:03.080 I saw um Justin's draft, it reminded me of the 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.360 ending of Point Break. Uh and if you can place that, 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.480 the quote is he's not coming back, And that was 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:14.640 totally how I felt about exactly. Oh, you've come out 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:20.720 of you and watched Point Break. You know, you're just justin. 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.320 It's a fantastic one. Oh man, I just want to 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.640 slap you from here. So you need to be in 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:32.160 the office, dude, the virtual slap. I think that the 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:36.360 story revealed to me again, but there are certain workers 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.920 and certain career paths that have ended up kind of 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.280 being able to rise above the fraight. So to me, 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.200 as much as anything, this is a story about this 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.600 wealth inequality and wealth disparity because obviously these are high 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.480 paying jobs right justin yeah, I mean that's part of it. 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.840 And more broadly, you know, white collar workers have been 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:58.720 more able to work remotely than everybody else. But it 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.720 seems like with this p particular group, yes, they're highly paid, 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:03.880 but it's also just kind of the way they do 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:08.120 their work has even before the pandemic, been getting increasingly 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.200 sort of distributed, and lots of times when there's any 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.480 big sort of software related project, there are teams all 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.200 over the world working on it. There's already been a 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:21.360 lot of outsourcing to freelance workers all over the place. 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:22.960 So it just sort of feels like this is a 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:28.120 particular area where you know, the default going forward maybe 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.280 doing it remotely. Well, we were talking with the CEO 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.760 of Mozilla to who said, we've been doing this for years, 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.960 like this isn't new to us, but increasingly as every 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.640 company we're a high tech company, where a media company, 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.000 but where a lot more than that obviously, But each company, 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.720 UM justin often has a huge tech component to it. 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.560 They've got a lot of software engineers, people who are 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.440 writing code for one reason or another. Pick your industry, 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.440 pick your company. Yeah, No, it's spread all over the place. 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:57.760 I mean, the BLS does this annual sort of accounting 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:01.960 of where people in every pretty arrow occupation, UM, what 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.160 industries they work in. And so I was going through 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.560 the list for computer and mathematical operations and I think 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:12.720 I found like a Mason reconstruction doesn't have any UM, 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.760 but bars. There were fifty of them listed as working 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.840 in the bar industry can conclude, you know, like a 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.640 chain of bars or something. Aren't many of those shipping 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:26.480 liquor to all of us at home exactly? So it's yeah, 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.400 it's all over the place. And you know, obviously that 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:32.240 will differ by industry. Some industries, you know, another oil 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:36.479 and gas industry has tons of UM computer and mathematical occupations. 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:39.320 It's going to vary by industry how much they stay 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.040 at home. But I just feel like that particular kind 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.720 of work is going beyond where a lot of the 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.840 other things that what color people do are going. Okay, 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.160 justin help us think through some implications of this. Does 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.320 it Does it mean that companies will save money by 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.680 having to pay employees who don't live in the Bay 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.640 Area or in Los Angeles or New York as much money? 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.880 Does it mean that, you know, so called in putting 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.560 this in quotes and air quotes, the second tier, third 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.560 tier cities are going to see some sort of resurgence 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.639 because you're gonna have people moving there because the quality 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:13.520 of life is higher. I mean, I think what we've 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.080 seen so far in terms of where people are moving, 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.240 it's like, yes, more people are moving to Austin, then 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:24.320 also Phoenix. They're not moving to Cleveland or other They're 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.120 not moving to the second tier cities where you actually 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:29.399 get a really big jump up in the kind of 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:31.760 house you can buy and the quality of life. So 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:33.679 it is. I don't think it's going to be some 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.960 great equalizer. It's just gonna shift the inequality sort of. 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.600 You know, it's gonna make things a lot worse in 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.000 a few towns in Montana um and then in the 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.120 rest of the country. It's not going to change things 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.480 that much. But I think in again, in the computer 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:54.240 and mathematical um occupations, it's also just gonna be and 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.960 this was again already happening, but it's just gonna increase 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:01.560 the tendency to think globally. And you're trying to staff 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:05.560 up something and and you know, even if companies aren't 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.080 able to push through that, hey you have to take 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.679 less pay. If you lived in Bend, Oregon, then if 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.480 you live in Silicon Valley, they can probably get away 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:15.560 with it saying yes, you take less pay. If you 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.080 live in Ukraine, then if you live in the US, 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.720 you know Bend Oregon long ago, justin at the early 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.199 days of the pandemic, as an Oregon I woke up 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:29.080 one morning and in that like little hazy spot before 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.480 your brain is fully awake, I was like, where in 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.080 the world would I work if I could work anywhere? 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.520 And Bend Oregan was the spot that popped into my 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.680 brain in that hazy hour. But uh, I also just 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:41.520 want to bring up another point that you raised in 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.080 your story here, which is like, you know, one other 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:49.080 element of this work from home conversation with this particular 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:52.520 category of jobs is like jobs here are really scarce 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.159 in this field. Right even before the pandemic, this has 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:59.400 been some of the most desirable workers in career path. 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.000 The workers are scarce, the jobs are not scarce. The 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.520 workers are exactly right. And and so I'm wondering as 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:10.000 as the pandemic actually exacerbated that, because it's not like 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.639 the pipeline has been robust and growing right right, and 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:17.119 and there hasn't been any you know, like overall employment 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.480 is still down something like four percent in the computer 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.080 and mathematical occupations, it's it's up, but not by a 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.800 huge amount. But they're they're basically other than really temporarily 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.240 right at the in the middle of the lockdowns, there 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.200 was no real decline and employment in the in that area, 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:38.120 and no definitely no decline overall in demand for people 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.200 to do those kinds of jobs. Yeah, and these guys 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.399 are getting paid well. The meeting hourly wage for all 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:46.840 computer and mathematical occupations of almost forty four dollars. Computer 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.879 and information research scientists had the highest meeting wage at 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.840 almost sixty hour perhaps in surprising why you saw a 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.159 lot of this workout source early for the pandemic. Exactly 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.280 good stuff, Thank you so much, justin really appreciate it. Yeah, 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.800 you bet. Check out this. It's a column on the 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.560 back page of the upcoming issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine. 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:08.640 Jil Webber and Bloomberg opinion columnist Justin Fox in our studio. 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:14.480 This is Bloomberg. This is the Big Take, the best 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:18.560 of Bloomberg's in depth, original reporting from around the globe. Well, 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.360 we have to make sure we do as the economy. 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.000 What covers is what cut. The data kind of broken 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.040 down a bit. It's fun to becoming more and more 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:28.800 expensive to be looking at for shipping billion dollars for 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.520 the red entry levels. There's been ways of immigration that 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.000 have taced a lot of resistance, a lot of color 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:36.920