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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Hannah Elliott and

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Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller.

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Speaker 2: This is Hot Pursuit. Coming up on today's program, we

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Speaker 2: have Ken On, formerly of Goldman, Sachs and Sotheby's, now

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Speaker 2: running the Broad Arrow Auction group, which you know has

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Speaker 2: seen such incredible growth lately, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yes, and Ken is fresh off coming from the

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Speaker 1: Villadeste auction, which of course returned amazing results, especially on

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Speaker 1: some Ferraris. I think Ferrari's is going to be a

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Speaker 1: big theme for us this episode, Matt.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I was just gonna say that, so a warning

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Speaker 2: that we spoke with Ken before Ferrari released the Luce.

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Speaker 2: It's new critical six hundred and forty thousand dollars four door,

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Speaker 2: five seat electric vehicle that everybody has a take on,

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Speaker 2: and I mean everybody, yes, people who aren't car people

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Speaker 2: at all.

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Speaker 1: I think it's important to keep that in mind, that

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Speaker 1: we all know what opinions are, like, everybody has one,

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Speaker 1: and it's important to be able to stay a little

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Speaker 1: bit clearheaded and not get mired down in the peanut

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Speaker 1: gallery of people who have an opinion but not much else.

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Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, people don't have very different opinions.

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Speaker 2: Everybody has pretty much the same take on the Luce.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, Matt, I think you and I

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Speaker 1: have different opinions about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I personally I think I do as well. So

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Speaker 2: we'll talk about that. And I have driven well one

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Speaker 2: Bonker's nine to eleven competitor, the M two CS, BMW's

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Speaker 2: M two CS. I spend a week with that, so

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Speaker 2: I have some thoughts. And I've driven an electric Mercedes,

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Speaker 2: which isn't anything like good.

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Speaker 1: Yes, this is good to know because right you're gonna say,

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Speaker 1: it's not anything like the.

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Speaker 2: AMGGT exactly which you saw and would have been like,

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Speaker 2: according to the Global Peanut Gallery, the ugliest and most

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Speaker 2: horrible EV and any car launch of the year. Until

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Speaker 2: a week later. Ferrari was like, hold my beer.

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Speaker 1: Right exactly, I love it. You know. I did go

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Speaker 1: to that launch on the Sixth Street Bridge. It's very

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Speaker 1: close to our garage anyway, so it felt like right

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Speaker 1: in my own backyard. And I don't think that car

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Speaker 1: looked that bad.

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Speaker 2: To be honest, I didn't get the outrage to I know.

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Speaker 1: I've got other there, they're sure. Let's talk about other

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Speaker 1: issues associated with AMG doing an electric sedan, but the

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Speaker 1: car itself, for a sedan, looked fine. I have no

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Speaker 1: problem with how it looks.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like, if you think that's the

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Speaker 2: worst thing in the automotive world, you really haven't been

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Speaker 2: following Mercedes design language for the past twenty five years.

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Speaker 1: Or Jaguar for that instance.

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Speaker 2: Right, But I mean even Mercedes, that to me is

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Speaker 2: just an extension of what we've been seeing.

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Speaker 1: I think it's slightly better. I actually I thought it

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Speaker 1: looked more interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree, And I mean I

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Speaker 2: just I grew up with the C classes of the

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Speaker 2: late nineties early two thousands and there were horrible like

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Speaker 2: Honda CRX design elements in Mercedes then, so like now

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Speaker 2: I'm immune to it. I didn't think it was as

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Speaker 2: awful as I mean, do I particularly love that car? No,

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Speaker 2: But yeah, that's not the that's not they don't want

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Speaker 2: to be pleasing everyone all the time, and across brands,

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Speaker 2: that's I think the case. You want to have some

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Speaker 2: kind of controversy about the brand, you don't want to

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Speaker 2: make it as bad as Chris Bangle did at BMDL.

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Speaker 1: The Bengal Butt, the infamous bangle butt.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want people saying, oh, it's a Fiat

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Speaker 2: multiply right, No.

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Speaker 1: But I agree you don't. Not everybody has to like

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Speaker 1: everything all the time. I totally agree with that. The

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Speaker 1: important thing is to be very specific about what you're

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Speaker 1: trying to say and what you're trying to communicate to

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Speaker 1: the people that you do want to buy the car.

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Speaker 1: That to me is the thing, and that is really

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Speaker 1: I think the tension with Ferrari because their core base

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Speaker 1: pretty universally I think, doesn't like the Luce. But Ferrari

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Speaker 1: has done this thing where they're trying to attract some

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Speaker 1: new They need to expand they you know, they need to.

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Speaker 1: They're a publicly held company. They need to continue to

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Speaker 1: somehow bring in new people, right, and like this maybe

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Speaker 1: will do it.

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Speaker 2: I so on that note, I mean a publicly held

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Speaker 2: company whose stock has been crucified right from the high.

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Speaker 2: They've lost a third of the value of their company.

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Speaker 2: And I wonder how much this has to do with it,

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Speaker 2: or I did wonder that. Wait, was I showing you

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Speaker 2: the Arimez chart?

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Speaker 1: Also, ah, you sent me a charge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you put Ferrari stock up against Amez, they

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Speaker 2: track each other almost perfectly. So as soon as the

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Speaker 2: Luce came out, I thought, oh, this is why everyone

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Speaker 2: sold the stock, because it started at that investor day

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Speaker 2: when Michael Dean of Bloomberg Intelligence saw all the Chinese

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Speaker 2: battery boxes.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: But the fact is they they've been tracking Arimez perfectly.

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Speaker 2: It's a luxury issue. It's not an ev issue. I

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Speaker 2: want to just drill down though, and get some more

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Speaker 2: specifics on the on the Mercedes. Because you were there

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Speaker 2: at the launch, Brad Pitt, I think drove it. Is

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Speaker 2: that right? Yes, Brat and b you got a black eye.

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Speaker 1: I did get a black eye. Yeah, And let this

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Speaker 1: be a reminder for everyone that just be careful at Karshos.

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Speaker 1: This was I'll say, I have no problem saying this

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Speaker 1: was a freak accident. I don't hold Mercedes livele any

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Speaker 1: and anyway. It could happened to anywhere. They had swept

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Speaker 1: that road a million times. I'm very familiar with the

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Speaker 1: asphalt on that bridge. It's a very compromised bridge and

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Speaker 1: we can go into that. So it was a freak thing.

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Speaker 1: But I did get hit in the eye with rock

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Speaker 1: and I got a really good shiner.

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Speaker 2: By the way, unrelated. I love these car review guys

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Speaker 2: out of Canada. I always talked about the straight pipes,

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Speaker 2: you know, yeah, yeah, yeah tube. They go around as

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Speaker 2: part of their you know, normal testing track, a corner

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Speaker 2: that they call Cliche Corner, and for the important cars

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Speaker 2: like this, they go out and sweep Cliche Corner, which, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a real thing.

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Speaker 3: It is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a real thing. And you know, when you're

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Speaker 1: getting pushed. This didn't happen to me. I was actually

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Speaker 1: pretty far back in the stands. But at other car evans,

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Speaker 1: when the security are pushing you back from the road,

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Speaker 1: there's a reason for that. It's because who knows what

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Speaker 1: could you know get kicked up?

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Speaker 2: But this is this car isn't a production vehicle, right,

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Speaker 2: it's is it a concept still?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, it's production. This car is going forward. This

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Speaker 1: is this is the first electric vehicle from a falter

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Speaker 1: Bach and it's moving forward. This is this is full

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Speaker 1: steam ahead.

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Speaker 2: AMG's headquarters in southwest Germany are in falter Bach and

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Speaker 2: it's one of my favorite German town names.

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Speaker 1: To say, yeah, it makes you sound like you know

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about exactly. I've not been there, but

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Speaker 1: I liked a reference.

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Speaker 2: It's not far from from Stuttgart. I've been there quite

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Speaker 2: a bit, figured you had, yeah, because I went to

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Speaker 2: school in tubing In, which is also right there. And

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Speaker 2: but so this car is going to actually come out.

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Speaker 2: And the interesting thing I thought, besides the fact that

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Speaker 2: everyone thought that was super ugly and almost died until

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Speaker 2: the luce came out, and then they thought they were

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Speaker 2: even more dead, It's got eleven and fifty three horse

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Speaker 2: power as fourteen hundred and seventy five pound feet of torque.

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Speaker 2: It does zero sixty and two point one seconds like

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Speaker 2: just massive numbers. But does anyone care about that?

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing. The electrification of cars has totally commoditized

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Speaker 1: speed performance figures, by which I mean, no, they all

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Speaker 1: start to sound the same. They all have a thousand

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Speaker 1: horse power, they all do zero to sixty in just

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Speaker 1: under three seconds, they all have a top speed of

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Speaker 1: around two hundred miles an hour, and they all look

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Speaker 1: like the same sedan or tiny suv. So it no,

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Speaker 1: it starts to feel like nothing. It starts to fill

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Speaker 1: mid it starts to feel like AI slop. And the

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Speaker 1: other thing about this car that people really didn't like

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Speaker 1: was the fact that Mercedes made such a big point

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Speaker 1: of fabricating a V eight engine sound to it. I

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Speaker 1: actually thought it sounded cool. The problem was that Mercedes

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Speaker 1: is saying it sounds like a vaight, which like, it's

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Speaker 1: not a VA So you know, it sounds like and

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Speaker 1: is are two different things. I thought it sounded cool,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a different thing. But to your point, Matt, No,

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Speaker 1: and I'm actually working on a story right now about

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Speaker 1: the death of the halo car, the true traditional halo car,

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Speaker 1: like the Kara GT, like the Accura are A, like

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Speaker 1: the NSX, like these were halo cars. And now we

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Speaker 1: see lots of cars that have these performance figures that

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Speaker 1: would beat any supercar from the past, but they all

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Speaker 1: kind of blend together.

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Speaker 2: Yeah for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, like right now, I'm driving the Mercedes CLA and

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Speaker 2: it's a world away from what was that one that

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Speaker 2: you saw called the gtamg.

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Speaker 1: AMGGT four door coop.

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Speaker 2: Okay, this little Mercedes that I'm driving is an absolute

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Speaker 2: world away. I mean, for one thing, it starts at

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Speaker 2: I think forty seven thousand dollars or something, right, Okay,

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Speaker 2: it has two hundred and sixty eight horse power.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's a quarter.

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Speaker 2: It has two hundred and forty seven pound feet of torque,

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Speaker 2: and yet it feels it's an electric car. So it

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Speaker 2: feels so quick and I have been flying to work

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Speaker 2: in this thing. It's it's kind of fun. But like

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Speaker 2: with every electric car I drive, the first few hours

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Speaker 2: or the first few days with it, the novelty of

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Speaker 2: the instant torque and going so fast without making sound

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Speaker 2: or vibrations is pretty cool. And then and then it

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Speaker 2: wears off because there's nothing for me to really connect

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Speaker 2: with longer term. This is the Alex roy like vibrations

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Speaker 2: or heartbeat theory, and so that's totally I think it's

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Speaker 2: spot on, Like no electric car I've ever driven for

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Speaker 2: a full week has enough to keep me, has enough

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Speaker 2: soul that I that I feel like I could actually

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Speaker 2: own one and be happy with the longer term, with

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Speaker 2: the exception of the huge like Luxo barges like the

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Speaker 2: BMW I seven, because to me, the isolation, the suspension,

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Speaker 2: like the really expensive trickery that they that creates the

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Speaker 2: magic carpet ride, actually does give it a soul. It's

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Speaker 2: not the engine anymore. It's about the thing else. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: But I just want to say quickly about the this

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Speaker 2: cla Mercedes is so good at the finishing touches, at

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Speaker 2: the fit of the panels, at the you know, the

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Speaker 2: windows switch when you pull up on it or push

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Speaker 2: down on it, it's so it's like butter. The turn

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Speaker 2: signal makes the perfect sound. They have little pieces of

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Speaker 2: actual metal, where my Dodge has like cheap plastic everywhere.

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Speaker 2: The wood finish even I'm not a screen a fan

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Speaker 2: of the huge screens, and this thing is just like

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Speaker 2: a sixty inch flat screen in the front. But the

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Speaker 2: way they've done it, it works. It works really well, totally,

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Speaker 2: and that's the luxury, that's what you're paying the extra

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Speaker 2: premium for.

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Speaker 1: Totally. I think Mercedes has the best interiors. Maybe there

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Speaker 1: are some that are equal to it, but none are

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Speaker 1: better than a Mercedes interior right now. And maybe people

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Speaker 1: don't like the screens, but the thing is the screen.

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Speaker 1: These screens work. They feel apropos to the overall package

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Speaker 1: of the car, So I totally agree.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 2: So now with that all out of the way, before

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Speaker 2: we get to Ken, let me get your take on

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Speaker 2: the Ferrari Luce, the Johnny I've collaboration that created Ferrari's

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Speaker 2: first five seater.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the more I think about this, the more I

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Speaker 1: think it truly is an aberration for Ferrari. It is

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Speaker 1: weird that they did it. I think it's very fascinating

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Speaker 1: that they have chosen to have a completely outside design firm,

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Speaker 1: and by outside we mean outside of Italy for the

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Speaker 1: first time ever. It's not unusual that an automaker would

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Speaker 1: have consult with a design house. They have been doing

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Speaker 1: it since the beginning of time, think of Pininfarina, for instance,

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Speaker 1: but it is odd they would consult with a design

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Speaker 1: house that has no experience doing cars, and one that

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Speaker 1: is outside of Italy, which is kind of a convenient

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Speaker 1: off ramp to sort of separate and perhaps protect the

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Speaker 1: core Ferrari brand that they can say this came from outside,

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Speaker 1: let's get to it. When I first saw the car,

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Speaker 1: I just thought, that is so ugly and terrible.

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Speaker 2: It's abhorring, terrible.

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Speaker 1: It's secrecure. You know. I have to withhold some judgment

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Speaker 1: because I know because I haven't seen it in person

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Speaker 1: and I haven't driven it, and I know cars photographed

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Speaker 1: differently now. But I do think two things are really important.

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Speaker 1: Number One, this car is a compliance car. It helps

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Speaker 1: them meet efficiency regulations, et cetera, et cetera, and.

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Speaker 2: A lot of other companies don't have to do that.

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Speaker 2: Lamborghini does not have to do that because they're exact

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Speaker 2: bulkswag exactly.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't answer the question of why does it have

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Speaker 1: to be ugly. You could have done a full performance car.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that I think is if this car

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Speaker 1: had come from and we've talked about this before, if

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Speaker 1: this car had come from Tesla or Lucid, we would

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Speaker 1: not be freaking out. The problem is that it comes

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Speaker 1: from Ferrari, this beautiful brand known as the epitome of

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Speaker 1: elegance and sophistication and Italian life, this dulce Vita. And

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Speaker 1: when you look at this, this is not that no

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Speaker 1: matter which, even if you like it, it's not that.

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Speaker 1: This is a car for tech pros. And again back

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Speaker 1: to our earlier point, maybe that's the point. They're trying

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Speaker 1: to get a new audience. They're trying to appeal to

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Speaker 1: drivers in Asia and tech pros who are way more

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Speaker 1: who are able to afford something way more expensive than

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Speaker 1: in Tesla.

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Speaker 2: Okay, sure, people who don't care even for a minute

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Speaker 2: about dropping six hundred and fifty.

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Speaker 1: Grand Yes, so I understand all of that. If you

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Speaker 1: look at it from a business PERSPECTI maybe this is

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Speaker 1: not as damaging. If you look at this from a

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Speaker 1: pure Ferrari soul DNA of the company, this is like

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Speaker 1: so sacrilegious, But if you look at it from a

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Speaker 1: business standpoint, it may be rather savvy. And Kevin Tynan

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Speaker 1: we talked about before, I will never forget now when

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Speaker 1: he said the purpose of a car company is not

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Speaker 1: to sell cars, it's to make money.

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Speaker 2: Right. So Kevin Tynan, who used to work for Bloomberg Intelligence,

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Speaker 2: he's an analyst now he worked at the pre Udio

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Speaker 2: Group exactly. Yeah, So one quick question, how do you

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Speaker 2: feel about so At first glance, it's abhorrent, it's repugnant,

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Speaker 2: it's grotesque, and I think everybody had that. I don't

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Speaker 2: think there's an exception. What do you think about it

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Speaker 2: after having looked at it for a week, having read

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Speaker 2: about it, having heard everyone else's takes your have your

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Speaker 2: thoughts changed? Because the first time I saw BMW's bucktooth grill,

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Speaker 2: I also hated it, and now I think it's really cool.

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Speaker 1: My reactions and my thoughts stand really so.

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Speaker 2: When I first saw this thing, I thought, I almost

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Speaker 2: I thought I was going to have a heart attack,

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Speaker 2: Like I couldn't believe it. And I thought immediately of

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Speaker 2: Benedetto Vinya, and I was like, I had so much

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Speaker 2: respect for you, you know, the CEO of Ferrari. But

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Speaker 2: then I realized, these ugly cars or cars that on

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Speaker 2: first glance make you recoil and shudder a lot of

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Speaker 2: times grow on you. And so the first one I

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Speaker 2: saw was the reddish orange with the horrible wheels, and

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Speaker 2: then Bloomberg did a story on it, and we put

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Speaker 2: out the blue one with more Ferrari like I thought, oh,

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Speaker 2: that looks a lot better, and I thought, this is

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Speaker 2: going to grow on people. And now I really I've

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Speaker 2: been reading a lot more about the point of the

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Speaker 2: design and what they're trying to do with it. Now

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Speaker 2: I really really like it. A roadent tracted some strong

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Speaker 2: reporting with Johnny Ive who or actually not with Johnny,

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Speaker 2: but with another former employee of Love from the design firm,

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Speaker 2: who said, like, we're trying to really separate. Well, they

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Speaker 2: did the space of the interior and the outside of

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Speaker 2: the car, so they basically made a shell and then

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Speaker 2: put an additional shell on top of it. That's why

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Speaker 2: it's like two tone. And you know, the interior, I

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Speaker 2: don't think anyone debates is absolutely beautiful because it looks

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Speaker 2: like an interior from the seventies or eighties. Yes, with

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Speaker 2: the exception of the digital stuff, but they don't go,

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Speaker 2: it's not in your face screens, right. And so now

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Speaker 2: my thinking is if this had been an Apple car

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Speaker 2: by Ferrari, it would be a home run. The problem

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Speaker 2: is that it's a Ferrari by Apple. That's the issue here.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and that gets to my fundamental sort of recoil

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Speaker 1: on a theoretical standpoint that I just don't like the

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Speaker 1: idea of tech taking over everything. And it feels like

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Speaker 1: when Jeff Bezos buys the met Gala and his wife

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Speaker 1: is now quote unquote in fashion, which is just not true.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It's the whole gaslighting of the modern day culture. If

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Speaker 2: you say it enough times, it's true, even if it's

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Speaker 2: a blatant lie.

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Speaker 1: And there it's a It's a fundamental for me on

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Speaker 1: a personal level, and this does not apply to when

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Speaker 1: I drive the car, and I the car drives are

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Speaker 1: later this year and I look forward to it. But

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Speaker 1: on a fundamental level, I personally just recoil against tech

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Speaker 1: buying and controlling every industry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, well, I've I have already had a

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Speaker 2: problem with the technology increases we've seen and Ferrari, you know,

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Speaker 2: the the pure saying, which also everybody hated at first

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Speaker 2: gate it. That's because the first time you saw it,

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Speaker 2: you saw it in the.

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Speaker 1: Form person, which is an advantage.

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Speaker 2: Most people saw it in pictures and they were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it looks like a Mazda MX thirty or whatever. Remember,

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Speaker 2: I think, now it looks beautiful. I've seen one on

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Speaker 2: the street now and I'm like, Wow, that really looks cool.

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Speaker 2: I still have a problem with the fact that Chris

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Speaker 2: Harris described it as like, you know, a supercomputer at

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Speaker 2: each wheel. I have issues with that in a Ferrari.

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Speaker 2: But I guess they have to keep up with the times.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know. I just the the the Luce.

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Speaker 2: I just I can't wait to see it in real

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Speaker 2: life and I can't wait to get in it and

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Speaker 2: experience I love the suicide doors. I wish more car

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Speaker 2: manufacturers would have the kahonas to put suicide doors on

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Speaker 2: a production car instead of just putting them on a concept.

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Speaker 2: And yes, so I'm pretty I'm pretty excited about that.

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Speaker 2: Can I quickly tell you? Tell you about the M

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Speaker 2: two CS?

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Speaker 1: I want to hear about it.

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Speaker 2: So for me, the M two is such a tantalizing vehicle.

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Speaker 2: It's like the smallest BMW and it looks and you

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Speaker 2: think it's very small. And you can still get it

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Speaker 2: with a stick which although people complaints about the actual

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Speaker 2: stick shift mechanism, everyone's happy that you can still get

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Speaker 2: a sports car three pedals. I didn't realize until this

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Speaker 2: week that the M two, no matter what guys you

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Speaker 2: buy it in, is longer, wider, taller, and heavier than

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Speaker 2: a nine to eleven. Wow it looks tiny, right, Yes,

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Speaker 2: it's big.

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Speaker 1: You have quite a nose on it. Interesting.

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Speaker 2: And this is another car that was people didn't like

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Speaker 2: it when it first came out. A lot of people

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Speaker 2: still think that design is controversial. The squared off. No,

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Speaker 2: it isn't. The muscular, brawny look. I love it. I

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Speaker 2: like it too, I absolutely love it. And I had

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Speaker 2: I was kind of like wiping it down after washing

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Speaker 2: it in my driveway and.

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Speaker 1: Some wow, you wash the cars too.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes if they get because I have a lot of

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Speaker 2: pond these these kids like twelve or thirteen were walking

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Speaker 2: by and couldn't see it from the back. And the

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Speaker 2: only differentiation between a CS and I mean there's a

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Speaker 2: body kit kind of, but the big difference is the

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Speaker 2: ductail on the CS compared to the Base M two.

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Speaker 2: This like twelve year old kid goes, oh, man, is

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Speaker 2: that the M two CS? Cool car? Dude?

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Speaker 3: No way?

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Speaker 1: I was like, yes, that's very cool.

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Speaker 2: You can't get the CS with a stick, so I

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Speaker 2: would buy the base model and you can get a

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Speaker 2: lightly used Base M two with a stick. I'm talking like,

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Speaker 2: you know, one or two years old with ten or

393
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Speaker 2: twelve thousand miles for sixty grand.

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Speaker 1: Like, would you get this over a nine to eleven?

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Speaker 2: I would, because well, because then the nine to elevens

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Speaker 2: that I want are starting at like one thirty, right,

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Speaker 2: And if you're talking about like if you're talking about

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Speaker 2: newish cars, sure I would want the Kara Tea and

399
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Speaker 2: even a used Kara Tea. And you really want the

400
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 2: twenty five and up models. They're they're one hundred thirty

401
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 2: thousand dollars. That's a lot of cash. I'm about to

402
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Speaker 2: have a third kid, Like, it's much more responsible for

403
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Speaker 2: me to drop sixty k on M two and spend

404
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Speaker 2: two thousand dollars beefing up the stick shit a little bit,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like I would get just as much

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Speaker 2: pleasure out of it. It's also got four seats and

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Speaker 2: two doors.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing, I love that. That's great to know. How

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Speaker 1: was the gas mileage on this?

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Speaker 2: I've never paid attention to gas mileage in any car

411
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Speaker 2: test driven. Really, I drive a Dodge Challenger as a

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Speaker 2: daily right.

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Speaker 1: So I get like, are you finding yourself going to

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Speaker 1: the gas station more often? Just or not necessarily?

415
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Speaker 2: I mean not, you go to the gas station a

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Speaker 2: fair amount. I just feel about the Challenger. It was uh,

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Speaker 2: I think six dollars and thirty six cents a gallon.

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Speaker 2: The full tank was one hundred and ten bucks. And look,

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know I've had a g Wagon, a

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Speaker 2: Ford F one fifty raptor. I'm used to getting like

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Speaker 2: sub fifteen mpg right.

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Speaker 1: The same we're a really bad test group.

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Speaker 2: I mean exactly, the most MPG I've ever had on

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Speaker 2: a car that I own has been my nine to eleven.

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Speaker 1: No, that's that's a low bar. Really not.

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Speaker 2: They're pretty efficient, I think, well.

427
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Speaker 1: Sure, sure, but it's still a sports car.

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Speaker 2: True.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's cool. What color was your BMW?

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Speaker 2: By the way, it was the Brooklyn gray. It's a

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Speaker 2: very cool color. I would probably choose a skyscraper gray

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Speaker 2: or I wish they made it in the dark purple

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Speaker 2: that they make the regular two series.

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Speaker 1: But I like purplews.

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Speaker 2: I like purple cars in general.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're kind of I feel like there's a having

437
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: a moment, kind of like how we spoke with Brett Burke.

438
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: They're having a moment for sure.

439
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: Yes, all right, with all of that out of the way,

440
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 2: shall we get to ken On.

441
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: Let's get to ken On. I want to know all

442
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: about the auction market and what to expect for the summer.

443
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 2: Ken You do now a ton of these really cool events,

444
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you're at Pebble and you're obviously Amelia

445
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: Island and Villadeste. To me, that would be the one,

446
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 2: if I could only do one in terms of the concourse,

447
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 2: I think that would be it.

448
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 3: It's an amazing setup and head I'm with you. Even

449
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 3: in Detroit it was probably a seventeen hour door to

450
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 3: door trip back all nights ago. But it is a

451
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 3: magical setting on the shores of Lake Como. It's certainly

452
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 3: you know, once in your life. If you're a car person,

453
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 3: I highly recommend at least once in your life. But

454
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 3: it's the longest standing concord, the Elegance, I would argue,

455
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 3: the first one in current form that we now started

456
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 3: in nineteen twenty nine and it's maintained its tradition over

457
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 3: the years and it's a very beautiful. So the quality

458
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 3: of the cars, the setting, the people, the concor itself

459
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 3: is just amazing.

460
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: We I mean, we obviously brought you on CAN to

461
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 1: talk about some of the auction sales because in addition

462
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: to the concord, you guys hold an auction and I'm

463
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 1: so interested to dive into these results with you. You know,

464
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: the top top sellers are like two Ferraris and a

465
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 1: Portia supercars. Can you just give us a rundown of

466
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: is this a surprise at all to you? How did

467
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: the numbers come out? What are when you look at

468
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: the results? What are you seeing that we should know?

469
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this was actually only our second auction there

470
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 3: at the last day. We actually that was our launching

471
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 3: point last year for our European auctions schedule, and obviously

472
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 3: when a lot of the car events and auctions go

473
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 3: hand to hand, just like you see a Monterey Peninsula

474
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 3: or when you see an Amelia when car collectors and

475
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 3: car lovers gather and it's a great place to launch

476
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 3: your actions. And the results were fantastic. We were up

477
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 3: about thirty three percent year over year, and we thought

478
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 3: we had an amazing first year. We actually thought to ourselves,

479
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 3: how we're going to repeat that number and not be

480
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 3: a one hit wonder, but it was. It was very strong.

481
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 3: By the way, that is also in line with what's

482
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 3: happening in the broader marks. So before we dive into

483
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: the specifics of the auctions, based on our HAGRID Market

484
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 3: Intelligence and Automotive Intelligence team's data through April, year to date,

485
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 3: total sales across all auctions live and online is up

486
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 3: about thirty percent, and so that's not surprising that we

487
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 3: were up thirty three percent year over year as well.

488
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 3: We're seeing a very robust market condition. What's really interesting,

489
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 3: and having been a form of Wall Street Guy and

490
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 3: looking at the markets and looking at the data, is

491
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 3: I've never seen in my ten years this kind of

492
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 3: phenomenon happening, where the average sale price so far this

493
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 3: year year over year is up twenty five percent, but

494
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 3: medium prices is down one percent. So what that means

495
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 3: is the very high end of the market is incredibly robust,

496
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 3: whereas the broader market is relatively flat, and so that's

497
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 3: a very interesting phenomenon we're seeing. Now, you know, that's

498
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 3: a shape.

499
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 2: You've got a K shape. Collector car market just took.

500
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 3: The word exactly out of my mouth. It's a K

501
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 3: shape that we're seeing everywhere. We're seeing this in fine arts,

502
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 3: we're seeing this in fine wine, seeing in luxury real

503
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 3: estate watches, and it's really a K shape where stocks

504
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 3: the stocks, yes, and you know it's it's it's not

505
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 3: a unique phenomenon to the car world, but we are

506
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 3: seeing this consistent theme happening. And the fact at the

507
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 3: very highend of the market is very robust, I think

508
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 3: is obviously the big wind behind a lot of the

509
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 3: auction houses in the industry, But the broader market is

510
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 3: relatively flatt and I would argue on the lower price

511
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 3: points it's actually fairly we can that's not surprising given

512
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 3: all of the broader macro and geopolitical situation that we're

513
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 3: obviously going through. There is also I think something that's

514
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 3: additional to that, which is we see this in the

515
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 3: capital markets. You know, the gold is up like fifty

516
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 3: percent just this year so far, right, And there's a

517
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 3: gravitational force towards tangible assets. And I think cars, among

518
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 3: art and other things, are especially very high end cars,

519
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 3: excluded limited production cars, fully grailed type cars. I think

520
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 3: that's where the capital is gravitating towards.

521
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: By the way, it's so cool that you have all

522
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 2: this haggardy data and that you analyze it the way

523
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 2: you do, which is pretty unique because of your background.

524
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 2: Tell us how you started in your professional life and

525
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,959
Speaker 2: what led you then to the world of high end cars.

526
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. Man, it's a good question. It's an accident, and

527
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 3: I love the fact that that accident happened for me.

528
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 3: I've always been interested in business. I started my career

529
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 3: as a management consultant, and then after business school, I

530
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 3: spent about seven years on Wall Street at Goldman Saxis

531
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 3: investment banker. And I always wanted to I wanted to

532
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 3: manage to leverage my strategy and financial markets background to

533
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 3: be in business and more towards entrepreneurial opportunities. It was

534
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 3: by sheer accident that I ended up at Sotheby's as

535
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 3: the head of Strategy and corporate Development back in twenty

536
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 3: fourteen when I left Wall Street, and I didn't actually

537
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 3: know that this world existed. But in my personal life,

538
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: cars were my ultimate passion since I was a little kid.

539
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 3: You know, I've always been cars, cars, cars. I was

540
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 3: probably the only football player in college where on Friday

541
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 3: nights I'm in the library looking at the latest car

542
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 3: magazines that just came out that week, you know, whether

543
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 3: it's Car Driver, Motor Trend, you know, Auto Week. I

544
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 3: would go through every one of those magazines. So I've

545
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 3: always loved cars. I've always wanted to be in business.

546
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 3: I didn't I never thought that my professional sort of

547
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 3: desire and my passion on a personal life would intersect.

548
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 3: And somehow I find myself at Haggerty in the car world,

549
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 3: driving a business that's really the heart.

550
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: More from kenn on a Broad Arrow Auctions on the

551
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 2: other side of this break, this is Bloomberg. Let's get

552
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: back to more with ken On from Broad Arrow Auctions.

553
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 2: On bloom Hannah, do you mind if I go off

554
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: on a slight tangent here take it just for a minute,

555
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: because you said when you said football player at college

556
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: that peaked my interest. And when someone pauses and then

557
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 2: says college, I know that what you want to say

558
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: is Harvard, right, which is which is where you did

559
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: your undergrad and your MBA.

560
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: And very discrete, very discreete.

561
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 2: What was football like? What was football like at Harvard?

562
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: Because whenever you talk about Harvard football, people are always like,

563
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 2: that's not a D one school, you know, but there

564
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: have been some Harvard players that went to the NFL,

565
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 2: and it is actually the beginning really of college football.

566
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: That's the roots of football.

567
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean early days it was you know, it's

568
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 3: the Big Four, right, And there's still photos of Harvard

569
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: versus Michigan and things like that. Back in the days.

570
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 3: I would argue Chicken Toung that it is still Division one,

571
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 3: it's Division one, Double A. I would say, it's still

572
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 3: very competitive, but you know, the academic environment and the

573
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 3: athletics environment was great. And to your point, Matt, several

574
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 3: of my teammates went to the NFL. Matt Burke was

575
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 3: the multiple Pro bowler, you know, won the Super Bowl.

576
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 3: My classmate Isaiah Kazwinski was a linebacker that played special

577
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 3: teams for seat Seahawks. When they went to the Super Bowl.

578
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 3: So there's few that come out of the IVY leagues.

579
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: And you, I mean, I imagine as I don't want

580
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: to go too far here, but I imagine as a football

581
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 2: player who was on the field of future NFL guys

582
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: and an MBA dude who ended up at Goldman Sachs.

583
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: A lot of your colleagues, a lot of your classmates,

584
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: and a lot of your teammates are probably clients now

585
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: a broad arrow.

586
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right. And I somehow ended up

587
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 3: in the used car business. But that's.

588
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: Well.

589
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: Can we talk about some of these top sellers, you know,

590
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: not to get back to the boring stuff, but like,

591
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: I just find it so fascinating that these are it

592
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: seems like a continuation of what we've see we have seen,

593
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: which is that these are sort of late model supercars.

594
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: Is that going to change anytime soon? I mean, let's

595
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: we can talk into the future. We've got big auctions

596
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: coming this summer, We've got the sales in Monterey. Do

597
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: you see any sign of this changing?

598
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 3: It's a very good question, Hannah and I get asked

599
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 3: that question a lot from our clients as well. Math

600
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 3: would indicate that it would be very difficult to sustain.

601
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,239
Speaker 3: And what I mean by that is we've seen this.

602
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 3: We started seeing this in Q four and really into

603
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 3: the beginning of this year, where the hypercars and modern

604
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 3: supercars have really gone up in value. You know, a

605
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 3: Ferrari enzo nearly tripled in value in a period of

606
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: about twelve months, right, And the question then becomes, you know,

607
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 3: we have a humans all have a tendency of recency

608
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 3: bias and a tendency to linearly project. If you were

609
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 3: to linearly project that type of growth rate, the implied

610
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 3: market caps, so to speak of Ferrari enzos would be

611
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 3: could be bigger than Ferrari itself, and it just creates,

612
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: you know, you wonder, how long can it last? Having

613
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 3: said that, as of now, the market still appears to

614
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 3: be very robust. We saw that continuation just in this

615
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 3: past weekend in Italy, and we've been seeing it over

616
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 3: and over. There were some questions after January Mika had

617
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 3: an amazing sale and you know, was that a flash

618
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 3: in a pot or is that a sustainable trend? And

619
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 3: February and end of January Paris auctions and then so

620
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 3: on and so forth through March through our Amelia sale

621
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 3: and Monaco as well as Filadeste. You're seeing this robust

622
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 3: market for the high end and the case shape that

623
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 3: we talked about across both sides of the pond.

624
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: Currently, how are tariffs affecting these sales? For instance, in

625
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: sales in Europe? Are those cars staying in Europe with

626
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 1: mostly European money and is that a change from previous years.

627
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 3: It's a really good question, Terras. It certainly has an impact,

628
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 3: right because what used to cost two and a half

629
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 3: percent to import to the US is now costing a

630
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 3: lot more with the current tax regime. Having said that, it's.

631
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 2: Much a lot more, ken is it like fifteen percent

632
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 2: if you want to bring a power back from Italy?

633
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 3: That's right, a lot, that's right, Yeah, that's a lot,

634
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 3: and so that changes your dynamics. But what's interesting is

635
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 3: in Europe, I was surprised by the number of US

636
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 3: buyers who are still purchasing cars. So we had a

637
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 3: Ferrari five to fifty Barkeetta as well as a couple

638
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 3: of Nissan GTRs that were all purchased by US buyers,

639
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 3: fully knowing that it would cost them fifteen percent to

640
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 3: important addition to transport and everything else. And that's interesting

641
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 3: because in Europe as well, for some of the really

642
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 3: low mileage modern cars, because of the way the VAT

643
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 3: system works, a lot of the European buyers still have

644
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 3: to pay a twenty percent VAT on top of what

645
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,439
Speaker 3: they purchased it for. So what it ended up doing

646
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 3: was still still advantageous for certain cars and models for

647
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 3: US buyers to buy. I would say it's less robust

648
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 3: than I guess a year or two ago when US

649
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 3: dollar was relatively much stronger and the tariff was lower.

650
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 3: That was very robust for US buyers. But we do

651
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 3: see subdued interest from the US pie. But it's still happening.

652
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 2: So, by the way, what's the all in price? If

653
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: I buy a car for a million dollars? Say I

654
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 2: pick up this nineteen twenty nine Bugatti Type forty three

655
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 2: roadster that you sold for basically a million, I'm paying

656
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 2: what am I paying? On top of the hammer price?

657
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: I pay five percent to the auction house, it.

658
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 3: Would be more like twelve thirteen percent depending on the auction.

659
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 2: Thirteen percent of the auction house and then and then

660
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: I pay fifteen percent on top of that.

661
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 3: Yes, so it quickly becomes one point you know, two

662
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 3: one point three million time it lands here.

663
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: What are you seeing with online sales? You know, it

664
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: seems like people still like to go to have an

665
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: experience where it's beautiful and they can drink champagne and

666
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: you feel the energy in the room. It's kind of

667
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: a form of entertainment. And that's why I love these,

668
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: especially the European sales. What are you seeing in the

669
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: online market too, because you guys have online auctions, Like,

670
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: how's that business?

671
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 3: It's doing really well. It's really interesting to see both

672
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 3: live and online being very robust and arguably for different reasons.

673
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 1: Your life going away, I'm sorry to interrupt you. You don't

674
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: see live going away as.

675
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 3: No, that's exactly what I was going to say. Actually,

676
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 3: is a during COVID when online there's a huge proliferation

677
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 3: of online options, surely because surely because we couldn't travel

678
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 3: and gather right and there were questions posed that it's

679
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 3: just the beginning of the end for live auctions. So

680
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 3: far this year, live auctions are up forty two percent

681
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 3: in total sales and online options up twelve percent. And

682
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 3: this is interesting. They're both up you know, ten plus percent,

683
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 3: which is great. Friends that you're seeing on forty two

684
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 3: versus twelve is really that case shape that we talked

685
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,720
Speaker 3: about the really high end. So when you think about

686
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 3: live auctions so far, you know, what we're observing is

687
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 3: one online has its unique advantages, lower friction cost. You

688
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 3: can bid from the comfort of your living room. You

689
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 3: can look through hundreds of photos and hundreds of listings

690
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 3: at any time from anywhere, and that's super convenient when

691
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 3: it becomes when generally speaking, very high end cars or

692
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 3: classic cars, they're not as easy as looking at a

693
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 3: Carfax report for a car that has twelve hundred miles

694
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 3: that's three years old, so people want to inspect them.

695
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 3: It's generally higher value and auction houses it costs a

696
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 3: lot to put these auctions together. You know, usually well

697
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 3: into the seven figures just to execute the event. And

698
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 3: you know, when you have seventy cars, divide that by

699
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 3: you know, and let's just say around numbers million, that's

700
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 3: quite a bit per car in terms of costs that

701
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 3: you're doing. So generally what you see is average transaction

702
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 3: values for live auction houses be much higher, and that

703
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 3: jives with the fact that high value cars people want

704
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 3: to typically kick the tires, crawl underneath and look at

705
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 3: before they spend seven figures. The other difference is, as

706
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 3: much as online community and convenience is there, there are

707
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 3: the benefit of live auctions actually the fact that there's

708
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 3: a social element to it, as you pointed out hand,

709
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 3: a big social element to it. In fact, you know,

710
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 3: in our auction room this past weekend, we probably had

711
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 3: about a thousand people, nine hundred to a thousand people,

712
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 3: but at the end of the day, the real actual

713
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 3: bidders were probably in the low hundreds, right, So the

714
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 3: other eight nine hundred people are there because it's entertain

715
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 3: it's a form of entertainment it is. It is also

716
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 3: a forum to see other people that you haven't seen

717
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 3: in a while, interact, talk, talk about the cars.

718
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: Show them how m how do you have.

719
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 3: My first out?

720
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: Yes, well this is something that yeah, I think maybe

721
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: I didn't realize before I got into into this world

722
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: that you know, most of the time these auctions are

723
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: open to the public. If it's a live auction, anybody

724
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: can go and watch and have fun. You don't have

725
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: to bid, Just don't raise your hands, you know, like,

726
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: don't do any sudden movements that way, but you know,

727
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: you anybody can go watch and feel like you're part

728
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: of it and it's free or you know, maybe thirty

729
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: dollars for an auction catalog or something, and it's really fun.

730
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 3: And sometimes you know, I come. I mentioned to you,

731
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 3: I was in the part auction world for a few years.

732
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 3: And that's very different when you when you walk on

733
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 3: Bond Street and you see this auction house, what you

734
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 3: see outside the door are two men in black suit

735
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 3: standing there and it's almost as if, hey, you don't

736
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 3: want to come in unless you belong here. And it's

737
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 3: a different environment. Car is much more casual, and we

738
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 3: sat from early on that we want to make this

739
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 3: as a except as possible, welcome kids, welcome anybody to

740
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 3: come look at not only the previews, but if the

741
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 3: room allows, go ahead and come in for auctions. And

742
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 3: in the case of the our Italian sale this past weekend,

743
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 3: it was actually very interesting because there's so much so

744
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 3: many people that wanted to be in the auction and

745
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 3: we had stanchioned off the bidding area versus non but

746
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 3: the number of people that had their phones up filming

747
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 3: this because if it's the first time they've ever seen

748
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 3: a live auction for a lot of them. And you

749
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 3: know the matt we talked about, you know, the source

750
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 3: of Como and the beautiful nature. Well, those roads and

751
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 3: traffic is horrendous because those were not roads that were

752
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 3: built for modern day traffic. And when you factor in

753
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 3: the amount of people that are coming to that event

754
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 3: later on, the number of kids and teenagers and young

755
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 3: adults that are on the streets trying to take photos

756
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 3: and videos of these cars that are coming through or

757
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 3: auction cars absolutely gems up the traffic. But we all

758
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 3: have smiles on our face as we say, you know this,

759
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 3: the future for car world is still pretty bright. When

760
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 3: you have a lot of young, young people who are

761
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 3: just there were you see kids running around. I think

762
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 3: they're talking to each other because I've just walking down

763
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 3: and say, hey, there's a Bugatti veyrone coming down you know,

764
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 3: Wherever street, and you see like dozens of kids just

765
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 3: absolutely running as fast as I could to try to

766
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 3: go take a glimpse of that car. And I think

767
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 3: that was really really cool.

768
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 2: Also, I want to point out so I've spent a

769
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 2: lot of time not only driving cars, but more importantly

770
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 2: riding motorcycles around this area. And once you get out

771
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 2: of Como and get to Lago Logano and Lago Majora,

772
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 2: you have clear, twisty mountain roads that honestly some of

773
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 2: the best driving I've I've ever done in my entire life.

774
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 3: It's almost unfair, I know, when you think about the Swiss,

775
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 3: you know, Alps and the passes and the Italian roads

776
00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 3: to the riding or driving roads are just phenomenal Europe,

777
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 3: And I would argue in parts of state of California,

778
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 3: I'm always jealous.

779
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: So I have a question for maybe our listeners in

780
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: terms of like service that we can help them with,

781
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: because I always think of this, and Matt and I

782
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: talk about it. Do you have a general rule of

783
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: thumb about whether a car should have a reserve on

784
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: it or not have a reserve on it, and whether

785
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: it's and whether and we kind of touched on this,

786
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 1: but whether it's more appropriate potentially for an in person

787
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: auction versus an online auction. Give us a sense of,

788
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: like how you advise your clients when they're not sure

789
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 1: what the best fit is.

790
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 3: So I'll speak in terms of generalities and then I'll

791
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 3: talk a little bit about some of the specific considerations.

792
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 3: In general, We've seen this over and over again, and

793
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 3: you can see this on online auctions as well as live.

794
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 3: When a car is offered with that reserve, you'll get

795
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 3: two to three times more number of bids for that

796
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 3: lot than a car that's with reserve. And when you

797
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 3: think about the psychology of why that is, if there

798
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 3: is a reserve on a lot and you're bitter, you

799
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 3: have no idea, even if you're highest bidder, whether you're

800
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 3: going to bring this car home or not, and there's

801
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 3: you know, I'd say thirty thirty percent chance because most

802
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 3: average auctional self the rate is about seventy thirty percent

803
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 3: chance that you could be the highest bidder and you

804
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 3: don't take that car home. And whereas if you're if

805
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 3: it's a no reserve lot and the gavel is about

806
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 3: to come down or the online digital clock is about

807
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 3: to expire, you know that the next as long as

808
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 3: you're the highest bidder, you'll take it home. And if

809
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 3: you're not, you better put another bid in because otherwise

810
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,720
Speaker 3: that car is gone for good. So from a demand

811
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 3: side perspective, no reserve is always better from a maximum

812
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 3: demand generation, which usually leads to the maximum value for

813
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 3: cars from a seller perspective, that's not always it's it's

814
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 3: very psychologically difficult barrier. You know, there is always a

815
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 3: theoretical chance that the Bugatti Type forty three cells for

816
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 3: fifty thousand dollars technically right, and so when it's worth

817
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 3: a million euros, and so a lot of the sellers

818
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 3: want to put a reserve on and not in many

819
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 3: cases rightfully. So here's my simple recommendation to most people,

820
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 3: why are you selling it? You need it to be gone,

821
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 3: and you know you just want it out, then absolutely

822
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 3: sell it without reserve, because if you sell it with

823
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 3: reserve and it doesn't sell, there's a mark at which

824
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 3: this was the highest pid in that car didn't sell,

825
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 3: you're going to have a much harder time trying to

826
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 3: go sell that car at a much higher price than

827
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 3: that because for the market, spoke court two is it's

828
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 3: really your portfolio effect. So if you have one car

829
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,720
Speaker 3: and it's valued a lot, then selling it without reserve

830
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 3: is riskier. It's no different than portfolio diversification of stocks

831
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,760
Speaker 3: or bonds or securities. When you have five, ten, fifteen

832
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 3: cars or more, or you're selling your entire collection, then

833
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 3: some of the parts tend to be greater than the whole.

834
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 3: And what I mean by that is when there's a

835
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 3: collection and it's no reserve, everyone pays attention to that collection,

836
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 3: and even if one doesn't do so well, you're diversified.

837
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 3: And so the outperformance that you're likely to get from

838
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 3: a no reserve offering is going to outweigh generally the individual.

839
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 3: So you know, it's always hindsight's twenty twenty. But when

840
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,439
Speaker 3: you're leading into it, it's always difficult. I would say

841
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 3: buy and large. It's say eighty ninety percent when it's

842
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 3: a big collection, when you have outsized returns, those are

843
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 3: all no reserve collections.

844
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 2: If you do well at your job, then I should

845
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 2: have more faith in putting my car up for no

846
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 2: reserve because the concern is that the right people don't

847
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 2: show for the auction right money's not in.

848
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 3: The world on average is always key on average. So yes,

849
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 3: it's the auction hous this job to make sure that

850
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 3: the cars are marketed and have a very global audience.

851
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 3: But in certain cases it's a very specific niche. If

852
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 3: it's a Porsche Outlaws or if it's a pre war

853
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 3: American Classics, you've got to make sure that those audience

854
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 3: in the marketing across those audiences is very strong. But yeah,

855
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 3: you're right, Matt, and that's how auction houses try to

856
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:33,439
Speaker 3: differentiate themselves with.

857
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 2: I want to I want to talk about some of

858
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 2: the specific cars because ever since Hannah sent me this link,

859
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 2: I've been lusting over, specifically the top seller, which was

860
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty three Ferrari Daytona SP three. This is

861
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 2: a V twelve where the motor sits behind you, which

862
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 2: normally you know in a Ferrari V twelve it's in

863
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 2: front of you. And to me that that makes the

864
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 2: car even more special than it than it already is.

865
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 2: It's a I guess kind of limited edition. There were

866
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: only six hundred of them, but that seems like, I mean,

867
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: that's already more than the BMW seven sixty. Yeah. Still,

868
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 2: what an amazing car. And you were talking about a

869
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 2: car that sold for three times. I think the MSRP

870
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 2: was like two million euros and you ended up selling

871
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 2: it for six and a quarter million euros. Yes, so

872
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 2: many questions. I have so many questions, Ken, Like, first

873
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 2: of all, you have to you can't say anything bad

874
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 2: about your clients, but you also can't respect a person

875
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 2: who is selling Ferrari SP three that he just bought

876
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, and he's only put like five hundred,

877
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 2: not even five hundred miles on this car. What are

878
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 2: you doing? I would be ripping this car around mountain

879
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 2: roads all year long.

880
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 1: We'd never see you again.

881
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 3: That is one of the biggest conundrum I think for

882
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 3: people who have these amazing cars. You know, the depreciation

883
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 3: curve is very steep when it comes to mileage, particularly

884
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 3: with modern cars, so you know, we often call it

885
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 3: delivery mile cars. The amount of premium that brings versus

886
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 3: a car that has six thousand miles, which is nothing

887
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 3: for a daily driver, is so big that people oftentimes

888
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 3: it's a shame that their sort of museum, you know,

889
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:26,919
Speaker 3: esque setting.

890
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 2: With GiB it Ken. If you're dropping two million bucks

891
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 2: on a Ferrari, and by the way, in order to

892
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 2: even get that allotment, you've already sent many millions more,

893
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 2: then you don't. You shouldn't care at all about it.

894
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,240
Speaker 2: That's what life is for. It's like baking a batch

895
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 2: of fresh chocolate chip cookies and then not eating any.

896
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 2: I don't understand the point of it.

897
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, and SP three is particularly interesting right now to

898
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 3: the market because when Ferrari sold these cars, because of

899
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 3: the exact phenomenon you mentioned about buying these cars for

900
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 3: a couple million and flipping it, there are in many cases,

901
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 3: a lot of these car manufacturers now have what's called

902
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 3: lockup periods where you're not allowed to sell for a

903
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 3: certain period, and if you do, you can only sell

904
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 3: it back to Ferrari. And so the lockups are just

905
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 3: expiring for these cars this year, and so there's more

906
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 3: of them the market. So if you're an owner of

907
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 3: those and you say, hey, I want I like this

908
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 3: From a financial return perspective, I don't need this car,

909
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 3: it won't necessarily hurt my standing with Ferrari because I

910
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 3: fully abided by the terms of the contract. The earlier

911
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 3: you are as a seller or you're more likely to

912
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 3: maximize the value. I think there's a financial aspect of

913
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 3: that that's certainly happening. Now. I'm not saying that's the

914
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 3: case for this particular seller. I don't know the specifics.

915
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 3: They may just not like the car. I don't know,

916
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 3: but that's what we're saying.

917
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 2: This car. Look how beautiful this I'm going to post

918
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 2: on my Instagram a picture of your SP three that

919
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: you sold, because this thing is one of the most

920
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 2: beautiful cars I've ever seen. I mean, it makes the

921
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 2: F forty look positively ugly. I wouldn't want the two

922
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 2: photographed together, Hannah.

923
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 1: Parenthetically, I will say, I do think some cars have

924
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 1: low miles because they're not actually fun to drive. I

925
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: don't think this applies to this car, but I do,

926
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: you know, I do think there's there there are some

927
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: cars that have low miles because no one actually wants

928
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:24,359
Speaker 1: to drive.

929
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 3: That's fair.

930
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: But I do have a question about this. You know,

931
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: it's it seems like, you know, this market is pushed

932
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:35,439
Speaker 1: by speculators and investment firms and like people who are

933
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: trying to trying to elevate the market for these cars.

934
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: Has that always happened, Ken, or is this a new

935
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: phenomenon like in the ages of in the early days

936
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: of these auctions, I mean a couple decades ago, we'll say,

937
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: were people doing this with other cars or not to

938
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: this level.

939
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 3: I wasn't around long enough. I've been around in this

940
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 3: industry for about a decade.

941
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,879
Speaker 2: But I would say, when did you graduate? When did

942
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 2: you graduate?

943
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 3: Harvard for undergrad oh for undergrad two thousand, So it's

944
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 3: been about twenty six years, but in the car world,

945
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 3: in the car auction world, about ten years, and we're

946
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 3: certainly seeing more of that happening over the last you know,

947
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,360
Speaker 3: two three four years, just because of the values of

948
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 3: these cars have gotten so high, and the differentiation of

949
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 3: values for low mileage versus high mileage is so high.

950
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 3: I will say though, and Mal you were talking about

951
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 3: some of the top lots that sold in Italy. What

952
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 3: surprised me, I thought it was great was the F forty.

953
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 3: So there was an F forty. It was a nineteen

954
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 3: ninety German delivered car that had forty thousand, two hundred

955
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 3: and seventy one kilometers, So in the F forty world,

956
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 3: that's a pretty pretty good mileage for that car. And

957
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,280
Speaker 3: we were all interested in seeing how that does because

958
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,720
Speaker 3: we had a it's a plenty different US spec versus EuroSpec.

959
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 3: But for in Emelia Island, we had a nineteen ninety

960
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 3: so same year US delivery car that was you know,

961
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 3: certified with eight thousand miles on it, and so, you know,

962
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 3: how would that relatively do. The US one was three

963
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 3: point eight million when we sold it, but this one

964
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 3: with higher kilometer, We had an estimate of two point

965
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 3: three to two point nine euros, and it's sold for

966
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 3: two point nine three euros, which is something like three

967
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 3: and a half million bucks. Right, So the difference of

968
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 3: forty thousand kilometer one selling for US dollar equivalent thirty

969
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 3: you know, three and a half versus the one that

970
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 3: we sold in US for eight thousand miles or three

971
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 3: point eight the difference was fairly negligible. And so in

972
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 3: this case, Matt, the person who owned that car or

973
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 3: people who owned that car that really enjoyed it actually

974
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 3: got probably more out of it.

975
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 2: And I think it's great, and to me it makes

976
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 2: total sense. Also, Ken, I mean, if you're the kind

977
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,399
Speaker 2: of person who's going to drop three and a half

978
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 2: million dollars on an F forty, you can also probably

979
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 2: afford I don't know if it needs engine out I

980
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 2: don't think it needs an engine out built service, but

981
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:17,839
Speaker 2: you can afford a Ferrari maintenance. You know what's the

982
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 2: worst case, Like you maybe you have to replace the suspension, Okay,

983
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 2: you can afford that worst case scenario, like it's a

984
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,399
Speaker 2: blown engine. You can probably afford to replace the motor too.

985
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the time, it's the time you lose. Well,

986
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: it's in the shop.

987
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 2: I just think, like that's the real if you if

988
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 2: you drop three and a half million hannah on a

989
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety f forty and you have a month to

990
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 2: put it in the shop and have them restore it

991
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 2: back to showroom condition, you probably can afford it. I

992
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 2: think it's great that somebody drove that for forty thousand kilometers.

993
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too.

994
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 3: This is a little bit extreme, but Vildeste Concor, one

995
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 3: of the Concore entrants, had a Ferrari two to fifty

996
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 3: gto and that's sort of the holy grail of the

997
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 3: sixty for.

998
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,479
Speaker 2: There's only like thirty eight of them right in the world.

999
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, thirty six of them, and the values, you know,

1000
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 3: wildly debatable, but between collected in today's market, probably between

1001
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 3: fifty and seventy five million, right, depending on the car

1002
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 3: and the mc assimon Kitson actually asked the Concord participant

1003
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 3: when he drove up and talked about driving the car,

1004
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 3: and he said, he's putting on thousands of miles, he

1005
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 3: plans to put on thousands, a couple of thousand miles

1006
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 3: this year driving that car. And he actually gingerly asked

1007
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 3: a question, aren't you a little worried about driving a

1008
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 3: car like that on the streets and putting a couple

1009
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 3: thousand miles on? I thought his response was amazing. He

1010
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 3: actually said, well, amazing for most people. As an insurance company,

1011
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 3: maybe less so. But he said, these are what these

1012
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 3: cars were meant for to be driven, and I'm going

1013
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 3: to drive and enjoy them, and I'm not worried my

1014
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 3: insurance company might want might be worried.

1015
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:00,959
Speaker 1: That's great, that's great.

1016
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 2: You're listening to Hot Pursuit on Bloomberg Radio. More from

1017
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 2: Ken on on the other side of this break. Welcome

1018
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 2: back to Hot Pursuit on Bloomberg Radio. Let's get back

1019
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,720
Speaker 2: to our conversation with Ken on broad Arrow auctions.

1020
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 1: I mean, are you ever tempted? You see so many

1021
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:29,399
Speaker 1: cars come across your desk. Are you do you ever think, oh,

1022
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to pull that one to the side for

1023
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: my own for my own self or what are you

1024
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 1: tempted by?

1025
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm tempted by. It's like a kid that loves

1026
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 3: candy that works in a candy store is very good thing.

1027
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 3: Of course, I love going through catalogs and looking you

1028
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 3: know looking at cars. Uh, there are strict and especially us,

1029
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 3: you know, you being a public company and you know

1030
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 3: the agency role that we play. I can't pull good

1031
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 3: things to the side. Of course, I could put a

1032
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 3: commission bid in advance of an auction to you know,

1033
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 3: make sure that I'm not bidding against clients actively in

1034
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 3: the room. But here's the maximum price that I'll go

1035
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:12,720
Speaker 3: to buy that car. Uh. But yeah, it's the tempt

1036
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 3: is real. But in reality I can't do that. But

1037
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 3: I am pretty active and actually it was so funny

1038
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 3: talk about meeting random people at random places. As we're

1039
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 3: talking about this. When I was in Italy this past week,

1040
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 3: because we're partners with BMW group Classic, they held a

1041
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 3: it's called a Prelude tour, So it's a sort of

1042
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 3: a mini rally across the map to your point of

1043
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 3: twisty roads around you know, Lake Como and and you

1044
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 3: know Lugano, and we ended up at Manza or you know,

1045
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 3: and there there were a couple of Classic and Modern

1046
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 3: BMW's that BMW had set up to run the track.

1047
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 3: And as clients are running the track, you know, as

1048
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 3: I I still have a day job, and my emails

1049
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 3: were exploding. So I snuck to the back from the

1050
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 3: paddock and went outside and was diligently looking at my

1051
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 3: email and someone comes up to me. It should occur

1052
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 3: to me in Italy this completely American accent. Someone says,

1053
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 3: do you mind if I grab this chair? Is is he taken?

1054
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 3: And I actually didn't even look up, and I said no, no, no, no,

1055
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,919
Speaker 3: it'll take to take the seat. And then I thought, wait,

1056
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 3: this person's American. So I looked up and the voice

1057
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 3: sounded familiar and it was Randy Nonenberg of and it

1058
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 3: just so happened. He was not part of this event.

1059
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 3: He was not part of anything.

1060
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 1: Oh interesting.

1061
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 3: Him and his buddy, two of them decided to drive

1062
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 3: his He has a Ford Falcon sitting in Europe, and

1063
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 3: they decided to drive down to Italy and it's one

1064
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 3: of those bucket list things for them, and so they

1065
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 3: decided to go on Manza. I guess he saw me

1066
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 3: down the track and decided to come over to find

1067
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 3: me when I was diligently through my emails and we

1068
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 3: were talking. We grabbed lunch together outside of the food truck.

1069
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,439
Speaker 3: And it's so funny because he was following my ID

1070
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 3: tag and he said, man, you've been really active on

1071
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 3: our platform too.

1072
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 2: That's funny.

1073
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 3: That's funny.

1074
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 2: By the way, do you think there are any crazy

1075
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 2: steals out there? Do you think there's anything that this

1076
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 2: market's undervalued. I've noticed lately that any big German limousines,

1077
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 2: and I'm specifically looking for and have had three deals

1078
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 2: for a BMW seven sixty have fallen through, but they

1079
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 2: depreciate like mad. I mean, somebody buys them for two

1080
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 2: hundred grand and then three years later they're going for sixty.

1081
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, yes, I think there's two things. One thematically,

1082
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 3: a lot of the really good iconic classics have really

1083
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 3: been weak over the last few years with all of

1084
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 3: the things that are happening on the high end and

1085
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 3: modern cars. There is Hannah you had you had a

1086
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 3: really good article last Friday. I think it was about

1087
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 3: you know, and.

1088
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for your comments.

1089
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 3: They were very oh no, thank you, thank you for

1090
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 3: having me on. But you know, in there you talk

1091
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 3: about this great wealth transfer, and you know, the current

1092
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 3: owners passing away or passing the wealth to the next generation.

1093
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 3: And there are a number of cars that are coming

1094
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 3: to the market. There are what we're seeing is a

1095
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 3: clear change and shift in the demand outside of the

1096
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 3: cars and the genres of cars that people like, the

1097
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 3: younger generation Millennials and Gen X are much more gravitating

1098
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 3: towards nineteen eighties, nineties, two thousands cars, whereas the baby

1099
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 3: boomers were collecting you know, if your collector pre war iconic,

1100
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 3: you know, pre war cars or fifties sixties race cars,

1101
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 3: et cetera. As supply of those are coming to the

1102
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 3: market at a very fast pace because we've, at least

1103
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 3: in the Western world, we've not seen this population of

1104
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 3: baby boomers who are kind of going through the snake, right.

1105
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 3: I'm sort of imagining a cow going through a snake, right,

1106
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,439
Speaker 3: and as they're coming to the stake.

1107
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 1: We're not going to use the word hoard.

1108
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're not going to use the word no, no

1109
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 3: use of work. But I guess my point long when

1110
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 3: we have saying fifty sixties, seventies, great iconic classics have

1111
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 3: really come down a lot in value. You know, we

1112
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 3: had a in an Aston Martin Volantage short chassis. Those

1113
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 3: were nine hundred thousand to a million dollar cars four

1114
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 3: or five years ago. We're struggling to bring half of that. Oh,

1115
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 3: now you talk about Matt the Bugatti that you mentioned earlier.

1116
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 3: Those are multi million dollar cars, you know, five ten

1117
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 3: years ago when I started in this industry, you know,

1118
01:01:57,600 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 3: we barely cleared a million euros for it. And it's

1119
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 3: all relative, but from a value percively, that.

1120
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 2: Guy had eight thousand miles on it, though I.

1121
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 3: Have en rolled over a couple of times. But yes,

1122
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 3: I'm just joking.

1123
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 2: But anyone who's listening, if you go to the broad

1124
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 2: Era website, you know, you can click on the result

1125
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 2: and you can see the actual speedometer on that Bugatti. Uh,

1126
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 2: it shows eight thousand, but that's but it's only a

1127
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 2: four digit speedometer.

1128
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 3: So and then, and then to your point earlier, I

1129
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 3: personally like modern you mentioned Mercedes, you know, I love

1130
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 3: the late nineties early two thousands, you know, European Mercedes

1131
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 3: and BMW's especially like I sell sixty five with you

1132
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 3: know six leader. Those things are remarkable mechanical engines. But

1133
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 3: those cars are in there thirty forty thousand dollars. They

1134
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 3: used to be two hundred thousand when new, and I think, personally,

1135
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 3: I think those are really cool.

1136
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 2: That's the W one forty, right, So that's I like

1137
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 2: that absolutely Vault like I mean that was over engineered

1138
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 2: to the point of loss making for Mercedes. That was

1139
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 2: before cost cuts came into vogue. And the motor is understressed,

1140
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 2: so you get, you know, mountains of torque, but it

1141
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 2: can do so much more Like it's never gonna you

1142
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 2: can put hundred hundreds of thousands of miles on that

1143
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 2: motor for sure.

1144
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 3: And you know, again I like sort of the eighties

1145
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 3: nineties just because I grew up with those. But BMW, EH,

1146
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 3: fifty CSI right, it's a V twelve sixty manual car.

1147
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 3: You know those things are I don't know, depending on

1148
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 3: the mile age. Seventy thousand dollars two hundred thousand dollars

1149
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 3: that were iconic and those when BMW made those, they

1150
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 3: lost in today's dollars billions in terms of producing those

1151
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 3: and low quantity. There's only a couple hundred that came

1152
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 3: to the US. So there are some spots where I

1153
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,520
Speaker 3: think it's whether whether it's a long term financial gain

1154
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 3: or not. I think for value for the money, there

1155
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 3: are cars that are very attractive.

1156
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 1: That was kN on with bra Arrow. Now we're going

1157
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 1: to leave and go about our business.

1158
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 2: Wait a second, we didn't get to Yes, I didn't

1159
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 2: get to hear about your Indy five hundred, and I

1160
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 2: saw a pictures. Yes, it looked like you guys were

1161
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 2: doing like hot laps. It looked like Magnus was wearing

1162
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 2: like an actual race car driver suit.

1163
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 1: Yes, Mad did. Magnus did do a few hot laps.

1164
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 1: I did not, but he did. I have to say

1165
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 1: I have been to Indie races before, but I never

1166
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 1: really got it. I admit I spent so much time

1167
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 1: thinking about Formula One. I never really got Indie, but

1168
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: I get it now. The five hundred was incredible. I

1169
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: want to go back every year. It was like Woodstock

1170
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: and Seabring combine. It was so fun and the race

1171
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 1: itself of closest finish in IndyCar history in one hundred

1172
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 1: and ten years. Amazing race, amazing access they It's kind

1173
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 1: of unbelievable compared to F one, where everything is very

1174
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 1: strict and very tightly regulated, and you it's all these

1175
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 1: layers of access in Indy. I mean we were on

1176
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: the track until about two minutes until the start of

1177
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: the race. It was very free flowing. It took fifteen

1178
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 1: minutes to get to the track in the morning, and

1179
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 1: then about two and a half hours to get out

1180
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 1: of the track, which was actually kind of cool because

1181
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 1: then I spent a lot of time watching everybody party

1182
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: in the in the grass in the infield, and yes,

1183
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: yes it was kind of honestly so cool.

1184
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 2: And did you drink a ton of light beer?

1185
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 1: I don't drink beer, but I did have, you know,

1186
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:42,960
Speaker 1: a couple tipples of champagne.

1187
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 2: Is it fair? Is it okay for us to say

1188
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 2: I'm bummed that McLaren didn't win.

1189
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 1: Oh, it's totally fair, you know, Poto, I why are

1190
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 1: you exactly clare?

1191
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 2: Because I want Zac Brown to win every race in

1192
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 2: the Triple Crown under his leadership of McLaren.

1193
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: Well, I saw Zach there. He I greeted him. He

1194
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: loves our podcast, so that was really great. That was

1195
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 1: before the race, though, so I did not see him

1196
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: after the race. I will say for me, I was

1197
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 1: disappointed that Alex Rossi didn't get to finish because you know,

1198
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 1: he had broke his foot and in in pre the

1199
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 1: race pre race and then raced with a broken foot,

1200
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 1: which I thought was very courageous. So I would have

1201
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 1: liked to see him at least finish, but congrats to

1202
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:38,040
Speaker 1: Felix roseen Quist.

1203
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 2: Very cool champion. Did you get to watch Montreal the

1204
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 2: F one race?

1205
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:45,919
Speaker 1: I didn't see a lick of it.

1206
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 2: It was good, was it?

1207
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1208
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 2: Very good weekend for F one, mainly because of the

1209
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 2: of the Intra Mercedes rivalry, Kimmy and George fighting hard.

1210
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm necessarily a Kimmy fan, but

1211
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 2: he's a kid, and he's got a chip on his shoulder.

1212
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:08,600
Speaker 2: And during the sprint race, he like came very close

1213
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:11,080
Speaker 2: to crashing his car and knocking his teammate off the

1214
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 2: track on a couple of occasions. Like he was really

1215
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 2: making some lunges. And that's what I'm That's what I'm

1216
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 2: here for. You know, I'm bummed that George's car had well.

1217
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 2: I don't want to spoil it.

1218
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 1: For you, but no, no, no, you're not spoiling it.

1219
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 2: All right, So George broke down in the race, you know,

1220
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 2: and and Kimmy one again. And what's that four races

1221
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 2: in a row that he's yeah one is that that

1222
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 2: can't be possible? Am I thinking? That's no, that's.

1223
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:40,400
Speaker 1: Crazy, that's true. And I will say I can totally

1224
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 1: get why George George would be royally annoyed by this,

1225
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: because I remember when he was the bright young thing

1226
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 1: and he was like the cute kid that came on

1227
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 1: and was doing so well and yes, yes, and now

1228
01:07:55,720 --> 01:08:00,400
Speaker 1: it's just like that would royally annoy me as well.

1229
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 1: I get it. I get it. It's the it feels

1230
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 1: like young, young, dumb luck sometimes kind of it's not,

1231
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 1: but I'm sure that could be what it feels like.

1232
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's just I thought Formula One was

1233
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:20,519
Speaker 2: gonna blow like so hard this year after watching the

1234
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 2: first race, and it's really been every race since then

1235
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 2: pretty great. I was hoping for Max to like make

1236
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 2: a big comeback at the end. He didn't, but I

1237
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,240
Speaker 2: was glad to see Lewis like get into it. And

1238
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 2: the Ferrari's doing really well. By the way, the Ferrari Luce,

1239
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 2: all of their stats are weaker than the Mercedes AMGGT

1240
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 2: whatever it's called, and that's not great. So like they're

1241
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 2: losing out in their supercar launch, their supercar EV launch,

1242
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 2: and they're losing on the track. They need to change something.

1243
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 2: And apparently, according to Benedetto Vina, I think he gave

1244
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 2: an interview to like some Indian car mag He said

1245
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 2: they purposely did zero to sixty and two and a

1246
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 2: half seconds because any faster is uncomfortable for the occupants.

1247
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 2: Do you believe that? No? I find it hard to

1248
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 2: believe because the Mercedes does it in two point one

1249
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:21,599
Speaker 2: seconds and the taekon the Taekwon turbos from Portia does

1250
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:24,360
Speaker 2: it in like one point nine seconds. Like, wouldn't you

1251
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 2: want to be the fastest, especially since you cost by

1252
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 2: far the mostest. Yeah?

1253
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't get it.

1254
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 2: Anyway, you got anything good going on this weekend?

1255
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:38,439
Speaker 1: You know what? I'm going to drive to Carmel on Sunday,

1256
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:42,599
Speaker 1: and it's for an interview with Sondra Button, the head

1257
01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 1: of Pebble Beach Concord Delegance, and an interview on a

1258
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: drive with Vince Finaldi, the new head of Pebble Beach.

1259
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 1: I'm going to do like a back to back interview

1260
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 1: with those two, and then it's for a feature that

1261
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 1: we're going to do in Business Week that will come

1262
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 1: out right around the Concord August. So I'm looking forward

1263
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 1: to spending some time with them, getting to know them

1264
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 1: a little bit better, and being in Carmel in big

1265
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 1: surf for the weekend. I think it's going to be fair.

1266
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:10,679
Speaker 1: I love love going up there.

1267
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 2: I would like to go too.

1268
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:13,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, what are you up to?

1269
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 2: That sounds awesome.

1270
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:15,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, it should be good.

1271
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm not really doing much of anything this weekend.

1272
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 1: That also sounds lovely.

1273
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:23,599
Speaker 2: I'm going to ride my bike.

1274
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 1: What about Moto GP? Is there a race?

1275
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:28,799
Speaker 2: There is a Moto GP race, So I'll be excited

1276
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:31,559
Speaker 2: if Mark is back. You know, he had a bad

1277
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 2: crash and he was out for the last couple of races,

1278
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:37,960
Speaker 2: so I'll you know, I will watch that, and I

1279
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 2: probably will go to the Greenwich the Greenwich Conqueror as well.

1280
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:43,000
Speaker 2: So there's a car show here, but it's not the

1281
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:44,280
Speaker 2: same as being in Big.

1282
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 1: Sur Well, that will be really nice. You know what

1283
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: I just remembered. I should say this is kind of

1284
01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:52,720
Speaker 1: a weird pivot. But the thing that I remember the

1285
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 1: most from this AMGGT for launch actually is the fact

1286
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: that Mercedes said they understand that the US doesn't want

1287
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 1: evs really and they're gonna come out with an ice

1288
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:10,839
Speaker 1: baby g Wagon, which I feel like got totally buried buried.

1289
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:13,439
Speaker 1: But for those of us who love the g you

1290
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 1: mentioned driving the G and owning the G when we're

1291
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 1: talking about gas mileage. They actually had always said the

1292
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 1: Baby G was going to be electric, but now they said,

1293
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 1: because of the US market and their dealers telling them

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01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 1: please give us one with an internal combustion engine, they're

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01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:32,559
Speaker 1: going to do both, which is really exciting because I

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Speaker 1: think the Baby G will be very cool.

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01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool because they're a nice little There already

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01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 2: was a Baby G and yes with an ice motor

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01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 2: called a Suzuki Jimney if you recall. Yeah, yeah, like

1300
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,560
Speaker 2: just recently. They don't know why, I think for compliance,

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01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:51,040
Speaker 2: for regulatory reasons, they don't sell it anymore. But like

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Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, those those little so cute.

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Speaker 1: You and silver Lake. I see them every now and

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01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 1: then I'm like, oh, that's so cool Intel for like

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Speaker 1: bright orange.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they they have good colors. All right, That does

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Speaker 2: it for this week's show. Remember to follow and subscribe

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01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:09,920
Speaker 2: to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you listen.

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01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 2: You can also send us your comments, email us at

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01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 2: Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot nex.

1311
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 1: And check out my columns and stories on Bloomberg dot

1312
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 1: com and the Bloomberg Business app, you can go to

1313
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 1: some car reviews, events and stories that you won't find

1314
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 1: anywhere else. Find it all at Bloomberg dot com. Slash Pursuits,

1315
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 1: slash Autos.

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Speaker 2: I'm Hannah Elliott and I'm Matt Miller. We're back in

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Speaker 2: your podcast feed again next week