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Speaker 1: From Bloomberg News and I Heart Radio. It's the Big Take.

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Speaker 1: I'm west Caasova. Today, thousands of people claimed they got

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Speaker 1: cancer from one of the world's most popular drugs. In November,

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Speaker 1: we talked about how a small independent lab in Connecticut

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Speaker 1: called vallish Or discovered in that samples of Zantac, the

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Speaker 1: widely used heartburn pill, contained the possible carcinogen n d

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Speaker 1: m A. At first, the company that made the drug

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Speaker 1: at the time it was called Glaxo and now it

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Speaker 1: goes by g s K they pushed back against the

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Speaker 1: lab's findings, and so did the US Food and Drug Administration,

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Speaker 1: But in the FDA pulled Zantac from the market. The

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Speaker 1: agency also requested that all pros ryption and over the

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Speaker 1: counter drugs containing renittedine, which was the active ingredient in Santech,

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Speaker 1: be removed from store shelves. A new version of Zantech

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Speaker 1: is back on the market. It's been reformulated and it's

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Speaker 1: no longer made with renittedine. It's considered safe to use

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Speaker 1: as directed. But now tens of thousands of people who

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Speaker 1: took the old version of the drug have sued. They

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Speaker 1: claim it gave them cancer, and the alleged the company

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Speaker 1: was made aware of potential problems with the drug but

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Speaker 1: didn't act quickly enough. My colleagues Anna Edney, Susan Burfield,

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Speaker 1: and Jeff Feely dug deep into the claims and counterclaims

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Speaker 1: in these lawsuits for Bloomberg Business Week. They're here to

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Speaker 1: explain what's at stake and just how complicated it is

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Speaker 1: to try to prove a drug made someone sick. Susan,

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Speaker 1: can you tell us about Zantec and why it was

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Speaker 1: such a big deal. Zantac was first developed to treat

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Speaker 1: ulcers at then got approved to treat heartburn, and along

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Speaker 1: the way became a billion dollar drug for Glaxo and

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Speaker 1: the best selling prescription of all time. So hugely important

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Speaker 1: to the company that developed it, pretty important for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, millions of people who were taking it,

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Speaker 1: and now, of course, you know, important for people to

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Speaker 1: understand what happened during all those years between development and now.

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Speaker 1: And one of the reasons this drug became so popular, Anna,

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Speaker 1: as you're writing the story is that it was one

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Speaker 1: of the first drugs that was marketed directly to consumers.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Um, we see ads all the time now

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Speaker 1: on TV. I think and we think of those and

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Speaker 1: and make fun of them from time to time. And

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Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't as ubiquitous back then, but Blacks

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Speaker 1: made sure that it had an enormous salesforce, combined forces

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Speaker 1: with another company, um to try to to make sure

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Speaker 1: that they were getting the word out about this drug,

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Speaker 1: and even went too far sometimes and we're bromanded by

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Speaker 1: the Food and Drug Administration for some of the claims

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Speaker 1: that they tried to make. And and all this time

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Speaker 1: that this drug was selling in huge amounts of making

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Speaker 1: this company a lot of money, there were indications behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes that there were potential problems with it. Could

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Speaker 1: you describe exactly what was the problem with this drug? Yes, Um.

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Speaker 1: These indications that there was a problem with the drug

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Speaker 1: started before was even approved by the Food and Drug Administration.

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Speaker 1: There was some testing that black so did internally that

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Speaker 1: showed that under certain conditions Zantalk, which you know, before

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Speaker 1: it was approved, was called nitadine because that's the active

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Speaker 1: ingredient in it. This testing show that nittadine could form

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Speaker 1: a probable carcinogen called n d m A. So how

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Speaker 1: did that happen? Where did the n d m A

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Speaker 1: come from? So what they found out with Zantok is

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Speaker 1: that nittadine itself degrades to form n d m A,

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Speaker 1: and this can happen over time while it sits on

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Speaker 1: the shelf. This also can happen in heat and humidity.

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Speaker 1: So maybe when you're transporting the drug and you're the

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Speaker 1: truck might be um have higher temperatures. When they're taking

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Speaker 1: it to the drug store. This can be in your bathroom.

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Speaker 1: You know, these are pretty normal temperatures where it's able

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Speaker 1: to increase the amount of n d m A on

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Speaker 1: the drugs, So you don't just have a set amount

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Speaker 1: of n d m A, but it rises over time

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Speaker 1: and with heat. What they have argued is that it

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Speaker 1: would have only been in conditions that just aren't even

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Speaker 1: possible to happen within the human body, so that at

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Speaker 1: the time the drug is manufactured it can be just fine,

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Speaker 1: but over time, sitting in your medicine cabinet can develop

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Speaker 1: this probable carcinogen all by itself. That's right. The n

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Speaker 1: d m A is formed when the drug degrades. The

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Speaker 1: drug has some characteristics that make it susceptible to forming

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Speaker 1: n d m A. What happened is Glaxo looked into

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Speaker 1: this once the news was out there in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: and they determined that they don't know exactly what is

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Speaker 1: making it degrade. They don't think there's any sort of

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Speaker 1: regular chemistry process that they can understand of how it

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Speaker 1: gets there. Probably one of the simplest ways to think

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Speaker 1: about this is just that renitadine as a molecule is unstable,

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Speaker 1: and so over time, in heat, in humidity, it degrades

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Speaker 1: and that creates problems that we're seeing now. And why

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Speaker 1: is and d m A a carcinogy and what does

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Speaker 1: it do? And d m A was once used in

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Speaker 1: rocket fuel but essentially, you know, it's not even allowed

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Speaker 1: to be used in any commercial uses anymore. Essentially is

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Speaker 1: only used now to cause cancer in um like lab rats,

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Speaker 1: animals that are being used for research. And they call

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Speaker 1: it a probable carcinogen because it's never been tested on humans.

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Speaker 1: But every single animal that has ever been given in

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Speaker 1: d m A, no matter the species, has developed cancer.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just a cancer, it's a laundry list

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Speaker 1: of cancers, bladder, lung, all sorts of different cancers. Jeff,

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Speaker 1: how is it that you know everything that you're describing

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Speaker 1: here the deliberations behind the scenes in the company, how

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Speaker 1: they responded to various signs that they may have been

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Speaker 1: something wrong. Well, we have access to the actual lawsuits

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Speaker 1: themselves the complainants. We have access to the pre trial

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Speaker 1: depositions done of the Glaxo officials. We have access to

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Speaker 1: internal documents that were turned over in discovery in some

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Speaker 1: of the lawsuits, so you know, we got a pre

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Speaker 1: wide view of what was going on. We also filed

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Speaker 1: a freedom of information request with the f d A,

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Speaker 1: so we also have the minutes of the meeting where

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Speaker 1: a group of outside advisors and f DAS staff we're

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Speaker 1: talking with Glaxo scientists. At the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: they suggested that the FDA go ahead and approve the

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Speaker 1: drug Susan, What did G s K say when you

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Speaker 1: presented them with what you found in your reporting about Zantac.

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Speaker 1: We sent G s K a pretty detailed memo UM

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Speaker 1: laying out what we had found, what we had seen

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Speaker 1: in the court documents, what our own reporting showed. UM.

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Speaker 1: They declined to answer any of our specific questions. They

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Speaker 1: did give us a statement that said that there is

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Speaker 1: no scientific consensus about any consistent or reliable evidence that

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Speaker 1: zantac increases the risk for any type of cancer. So

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Speaker 1: basically they're saying the science is on their side. They

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Speaker 1: also said that they will defend themselves vigorously against all

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Speaker 1: claims in any litigation. What is the f d A

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Speaker 1: say about approving written nity which they eventually then had

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Speaker 1: to pull from the market. Yeah, so the f d

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Speaker 1: A gave us a statement that I'll just summarize. Basically,

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Speaker 1: what they said is that they evaluate drugs according to

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Speaker 1: the quote science of the day, and when there's a problem,

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Speaker 1: they'll act quickly to figure out what to do. So

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Speaker 1: I guess you know what they're saying is they did

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Speaker 1: the best they could. And you write that GSK continues

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Speaker 1: to say that renitted being does not cause cancer. Correct

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Speaker 1: the way g s K is put it is that

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Speaker 1: there are no consistent signals that zantac causes cancer. What

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Speaker 1: they mean by that is that there are conflicting studies.

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Speaker 1: You know, nobody has given zantac to humans and said

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Speaker 1: let's find out if this causes cancer. You can't do

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Speaker 1: that ethically, but people have looked back in different epidemiological

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Speaker 1: databases and things and tried to figure out if people

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Speaker 1: who took santac how to hire risk of cancer. It's

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Speaker 1: true there's no consistent signal that it causes cancer, but

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Speaker 1: there's also no consistent signal that it doesn't cause cancer.

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Speaker 1: And uh, the last time you were on the show,

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Speaker 1: you were telling us about the small lab called Valisher

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Speaker 1: and it saw a problem with renitaine. Can you just

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Speaker 1: remind us what they found? Yeah, vlisher at the time,

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Speaker 1: so this was in twenty nineteen. They are an independent lab.

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Speaker 1: At the time, they were also a pharmacy and so

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Speaker 1: they were testing all the drugs that came through and

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Speaker 1: so they happened to be testing some zan talk, some

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Speaker 1: renitodine and they saw these super high levels of n

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Speaker 1: d m A. They took that information, they ran more tests.

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Speaker 1: They kept finding d m A and every single bat

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Speaker 1: that they tested, and so they wrote up that information

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Speaker 1: and they sent it to the Food and Drug Administration

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Speaker 1: as a petition saying you need to look into this, Jeff.

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Speaker 1: We should say that the concerns we're talking about here

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Speaker 1: are no longer a problem with the current version of

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Speaker 1: zante that's on sale now. Is that right? Zan Hack

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Speaker 1: did come back on the market, but randditine was taken

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Speaker 1: out of it as the active ingredient, and they replaced

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Speaker 1: it with another one. So you can get zantac today,

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Speaker 1: but it will not have Rand did a team in it.

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Speaker 1: After the break, the lawsuits over Zantac get under way, Jeff.

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Speaker 1: Has been a few years since the old version of

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Speaker 1: Zantac that was made with nitadine was pulled from the market.

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Speaker 1: Now a lot of people who took that version of

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Speaker 1: the drug claimed they got cancer and they're suing. Can

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Speaker 1: you walk us through what's happening. Sure, So there are

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Speaker 1: two sets of cases. At last, we have in this country,

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Speaker 1: two separate places where you can sue in federal court.

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Speaker 1: They were roughly about fifty cases filed and they were

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Speaker 1: all consolidated before a judge in Florida. That judge re

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Speaker 1: sently found that the science underlying the claims was flawed

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Speaker 1: and throw those cases out. The plainiffs, the people lawyers

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Speaker 1: for those who took the antach or appealing that decision.

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Speaker 1: So fifty people who claimed they were sick sued, their

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Speaker 1: cases were put together and they were just thrown out.

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Speaker 1: That seems like a fairly sweeping judgment to happen. Early

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Speaker 1: on in the case that must have been a little controversial.

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Speaker 1: It was and it is. These cases were brought together

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Speaker 1: and what's called a multidistrict litigation and MDL, and it's

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Speaker 1: where you have a legal issue that gets filed in

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Speaker 1: different federal courts around the country. They are consolidated before

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Speaker 1: one judge for pre trial information exchanges and test trials.

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Speaker 1: One of the pre trial things that are done in

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Speaker 1: all these cases is sort of a check on the

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Speaker 1: science that underlies them, and they have a hearing and

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Speaker 1: the planeffs put forth their experts and they testify how

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Speaker 1: they came to the inclusions that randiditine was possible carcinogen.

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Speaker 1: So it's up to the judge to decide if that

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Speaker 1: science is legitimate enough in the cases can progress. This

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Speaker 1: judge in Florida decided that the science was flawed, that

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Speaker 1: it was not independent enough, it was tied too closely

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Speaker 1: to the litigation to be considered, you know, legitimate independent research,

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Speaker 1: despite the fact that these tests that Valisher and others

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Speaker 1: had done showed this probably link and that the FDA

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Speaker 1: itself ordered the drug pulled from the market. Correct And

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Speaker 1: she even noted in her in her decision the irony

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Speaker 1: of throwing these cases out when you have a recalled drug,

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Speaker 1: but she found that the science just did not stand

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Speaker 1: up as far as she's concerned. Now, this is one

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Speaker 1: federal judge and her decisions are appealed to annals and

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Speaker 1: groups of federal judges who review them. So we'll see

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Speaker 1: what the outcome of that is yet. And in that

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Speaker 1: statement that g s K gave us UM in response

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Speaker 1: to our questions, they talked about that ruling um. They

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Speaker 1: noted that it was forty one pages that the judge

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Speaker 1: had reviewed thirteen studies and had concluded, as they do,

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Speaker 1: that there's no scientific consensus about nitadine and its linked

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Speaker 1: to cancer. So this ruling was really great news for

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Speaker 1: g SK and they, you know, continue to like to

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Speaker 1: refer to it because they feel and hope that it

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Speaker 1: should be the last word. Did the f d A

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Speaker 1: weigh in on this suit, they've you know, said pretty

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Speaker 1: much the same, there's no consistent signal that zantac causes cancer.

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Speaker 1: And even since the f d I put that statement out,

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Speaker 1: which was originally in June, there's been more studies, more

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Speaker 1: inconsistent evidence that it causes cancer or it doesn't. It

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Speaker 1: just goes both ways. They can't really take a position

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Speaker 1: on this. It's it's not clear. I mean, there's no

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Speaker 1: It's not like asbestos, where there's a consensus that you know,

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Speaker 1: asbestos is a carcinogen. You know, there's just not a

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Speaker 1: consensus yet. But the FDA ordered randentitying off the market

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Speaker 1: just to make sure. I mean, you can't if there

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Speaker 1: is a possibility that this stuff is causing cancer, you

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Speaker 1: don't want it widely distributed. Jeff, you described that when

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Speaker 1: federal Casey you said there is another bachelor cases going.

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Speaker 1: There's been seventy thousand cases filed. Most of them now

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Speaker 1: are in Delaware State Court in Delaware, that is because

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Speaker 1: that's where all of these companies US operations are incorporated.

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Speaker 1: The deal with these is that the states have a

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Speaker 1: different standard for judging the legitimacy of science then the

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Speaker 1: federal courts, and so it's more likely that more of

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Speaker 1: these cases are going to make it to trial that

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Speaker 1: the judge in Delaware. And cases are also fount in California, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: And these are all individual, they haven't been all put together.

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Speaker 1: That is correct, as they're all again all individual personal

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Speaker 1: injury cases. That's right, Jeff, What are all of these

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Speaker 1: tens of thousands of plaintiffs asking for First of all,

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Speaker 1: all civil lawsuits are about money, so they're asking for

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Speaker 1: damages for their injuries. They want to be reimbursed for

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Speaker 1: their medical costs, for the pain and suffering of the

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Speaker 1: cancer treatments. You know, God forbid. The person who took

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Speaker 1: antack has died, his family wants compensation for the loss

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Speaker 1: of that person, loss of his income. So it's always

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Speaker 1: about money, Susan, Even if a drug is thought to

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Speaker 1: be a possible carcin engine, it's still very difficult, I

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Speaker 1: imagine for any individual person to claim that he or

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Speaker 1: she got cancer from that drug, as cancer can come

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Speaker 1: from a lot of different things. Yeah, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, for all of these cases, and in almost

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Speaker 1: every kind of cancer I think, except you know, as

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Speaker 1: Jeff said, asbestos tobacco. You know, the cancer develops years

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Speaker 1: after you've either been exposed or have been ingesting something

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Speaker 1: that's harmful, and to be able to make that connection

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Speaker 1: can be complicated. And that's I think what the f

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Speaker 1: d A statement is suggesting. You know, about consistent signals,

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Speaker 1: and you can say, as Anna did, there's not signals

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Speaker 1: that it always does, but there's not signals that it doesn't. Jeff,

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Speaker 1: you're writing this story that in other similar pharmaceutical cases,

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Speaker 1: the companies have often settled rather than risk having so

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Speaker 1: many suits that could wind up with judgments against them.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's likely that the company is going

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Speaker 1: to want to settle these cases rather than bring them

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Speaker 1: all to trial. I think there's a strong possibility that

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Speaker 1: there will be a settlement at some point. It takes

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Speaker 1: a while for these things to move into that posture.

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Speaker 1: The companies and the planiffs want to test the strengths

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Speaker 1: of their claims, and so they have test trials, they

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Speaker 1: have early trials. After you have a number of these things,

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Speaker 1: and some test trial periods last for twenty cases, others

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Speaker 1: for five cases, then the parties come together and try

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Speaker 1: to come up with some sort of reasonable accommodation that

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Speaker 1: is acceptable to both sides. And it's always about the money.

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Speaker 1: And as someone who covers the pharmaceutical companies all the

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Speaker 1: time and knows them, well, what are you looking for

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Speaker 1: in these cases? What do you think is the most

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Speaker 1: relevant thing that we should all be taking away from this?

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Speaker 1: The Food and Drug Administration? What about our regulatory body

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Speaker 1: that's supposed to be protecting us from dangerous drugs. They

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Speaker 1: don't have a lot of resources to look into whether

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Speaker 1: it's that's still on the market is safe. I think

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Speaker 1: that that leaves things up to the courts to decide.

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Speaker 1: It leaves it up to juries to be the last

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Speaker 1: line of defense for anyone who may have been harmed

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Speaker 1: by a pharmaceutical product. And what I'm looking for here

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Speaker 1: is I'm curious to see, you know, if these should

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Speaker 1: get to a jury trial, how regular Americans feel about that?

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Speaker 1: And Ednie Susan Burfield, Jeff Feely, thanks for joining me today.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks so much. No problem when we come back.

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Speaker 1: How drugmakers can spot potential hazards in their products. What

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Speaker 1: should companies do then to ensure their products are safe

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Speaker 1: both of the time they're made and after they've sat

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Speaker 1: for months or years in your medicine chest. Dr yap

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Speaker 1: Venoma can answer that question. He's the chief science officer

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Speaker 1: at u S Pharmacopia, and he's extensively studied the dangers

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Speaker 1: of probable carcinogens called nitrosamines. One of those nitros means

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Speaker 1: is and d m A, which we've been talking about

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Speaker 1: today and is at the center of the legal dispute

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Speaker 1: over the old version of zantac. He joins me to

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Speaker 1: explain how his organization is setting standards to protect against

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Speaker 1: the spread of nitros means and drugs. Yeah, can you

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Speaker 1: tell us first, what does US Pharmacopia do. Yes, the

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Speaker 1: US Pharmacopeia is an organization that is about two years old,

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Speaker 1: and our mission is to improve global health and we

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Speaker 1: do this primarily by setting standards for medicines, for biologics,

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Speaker 1: dietary supplements, food ingredients, and healthcare and related programs. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: can you explain exactly what are nitrosymedes. So nitros means

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Speaker 1: are naturally occurring compounds that are present are ubiquitous in

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Speaker 1: around US, in drug compounds, also in food and other areas.

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Speaker 1: So that's why they're important. And you say they're in nature,

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Speaker 1: where are they just naturally found? So nitrosmis can be

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Speaker 1: formed by a variety of chemical processes. I won't go

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Speaker 1: into the detail, but nitrosmin chemistry is in principle very

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Speaker 1: straightforward and can be formed through a variety of processes

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Speaker 1: by chemicals reacting. They can form naturally, They conformed during

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Speaker 1: chemical synthesis, they can form during certain degredation processes, and

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Speaker 1: the reason we're talking about them is because they are

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Speaker 1: also possible carcinogens. Yes, so they have been shown to

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Speaker 1: be muta genic, so they can cause mutations in your DNA,

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Speaker 1: and they are listed as probable or likely carcinogens in

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Speaker 1: mammals including humans. Nitrosamins have been found in quite a

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Speaker 1: few of the most widely used pharmaceuticals, drugs that a

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Speaker 1: lot of us are familiar with. Can you talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about which drugs that they've been found in

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Speaker 1: and what's happened since that discovery. So it started with

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Speaker 1: the discovery of nitros means in falseharten, which is a

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Speaker 1: class of products that are used to treat blood pressure,

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Speaker 1: so very widely used, and that led to recalls and

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Speaker 1: investigations into the cause of the presence of nitroso means.

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Speaker 1: That's what started this about three and a half years ago.

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Speaker 1: Since then, nitros means have also been found in other

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Speaker 1: very widely used drugs, including drugs to treat diabetes, tuberculosis, infection,

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Speaker 1: as well as gastric acids. So it's been found in

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Speaker 1: a number of drugs that are used many, many times

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Speaker 1: by people all over the world, including the United States. Now,

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Speaker 1: how are these nitros means introduced into drugs, because clearly

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Speaker 1: manufacturers don't want them there. How do they get into drugs?

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Speaker 1: So that's actually one of the concerns. So they are

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Speaker 1: and it's now being established that they can be introduced

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Speaker 1: into drugs by a variety of reasons. One is through

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Speaker 1: the chemical synthesis route that is used to produce the

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Speaker 1: drugs to make them. It's also been shown that through degradation,

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Speaker 1: in the case of renitatin, which is the anti gastric

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Speaker 1: acid medicine, that through degradation and by reacting with itself,

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Speaker 1: nitros means can be formed. A third way that it's

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Speaker 1: been shown to be introduced through interaction with the drug itself,

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Speaker 1: with the packaging and what we call excipients, which are

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Speaker 1: substances used to stabilize and manufacture the medicine. So it's

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Speaker 1: been shown to occur in drugs through a variety of methods.

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Speaker 1: And because of the widespread sort of exposure to the

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Speaker 1: public of what happened with renititin, there's more attention being

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Speaker 1: paid to nitros means. What are pharmaceutical companies doing, What

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Speaker 1: is your organization US Parmacopia doing to try to stop

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Speaker 1: the spread of nitrous means in pharmaceuticals. Yeah, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot going on. First, maybe it's good to to mention

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Speaker 1: that the very fact that these are being found and

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Speaker 1: discovered and monitored, while of course reasons for concern, it's

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Speaker 1: also a sign that the system is working because we

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Speaker 1: need to know what's going on. So that I think

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Speaker 1: that's the first thing i'd like to say. So, since

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Speaker 1: a couple of years, there's a widespread collaboration between the

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Speaker 1: regulatory authorities who are responsible for the safety and the

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Speaker 1: quality of medicine, the manufacturers, and other science organizations, including

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Speaker 1: the u S Pharmacopeia to try and figure out how

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Speaker 1: we can mitigate and how we can reduce and remove

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Speaker 1: the presence of nitrose means in drugs. So there are

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Speaker 1: three things going on. First is we have to understand

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Speaker 1: which drugs are at risk of forming or containing nitrose means.

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Speaker 1: That's the very first thing. The sect and piece is

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Speaker 1: we need a better understanding of how mutagenic or carcinogenic

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Speaker 1: these are. They're not all carcinogenic, they're not all mutigenic,

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Speaker 1: so it's very important to have more information as to

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Speaker 1: what they do. And then the third piece, very importantly,

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Speaker 1: is to discover and to develop methods to actually detect them,

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Speaker 1: and to detect them in a way that detect them

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Speaker 1: very low quantities to make sure that we have a

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Speaker 1: good handle on their presence. So these are the three

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Speaker 1: buckets that we're all collaborating on. I would say us

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Speaker 1: B is primarily involved in developing the methods and the

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Speaker 1: standards that are necessary to analyze and to discover all

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Speaker 1: of these different nitroso means. USP participated in a study

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Speaker 1: that found potentially forty one percent of active ingredients in

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Speaker 1: pharmaceuticals could have nitros means in them. How concerns should

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Speaker 1: we be that nitrous means and other potential carcinogens are

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Speaker 1: in the drugs that we take. So do not be

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Speaker 1: concerned to the point that you should consider stop using

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Speaker 1: drugs because of this, because that's very important. That's always

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Speaker 1: the guidance before making any decision. Talk to your doctor

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Speaker 1: and make the right decision. That's also in line with

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Speaker 1: what regulatory authorities are saying. So this is a theoretical

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Speaker 1: assessment of looking at all the different chemical structures of

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Speaker 1: the drugs on the market and looking for the potential

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Speaker 1: that with the emphasis on potential to develop them. There

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Speaker 1: are a lot of other factors that go into whether

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Speaker 1: or not the actually will form chemical conditions, storage conditions, temperatures,

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Speaker 1: all of these things are are important. So I don't

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Speaker 1: want any of you to be alarmed by, oh, two

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Speaker 1: out of five drugs are now do contain nitros means

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Speaker 1: that is not the case. It is part of the

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Speaker 1: network of the fabric that we are contributing to really

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Speaker 1: help advance the science and knowledge about these compounds. That's

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Speaker 1: what it is. One thing I'm really excited about and

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Speaker 1: I'd like to share is the nitrosman Exchange that we

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Speaker 1: set up about two years ago. So that was literally

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Speaker 1: an online community where scientists, regulators, healthcare professional come together

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Speaker 1: to discuss and find potential solutions. And in fact, the

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Speaker 1: article that you refer to that we discussed was actually

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Speaker 1: a direct result of that. So we're proud that we

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Speaker 1: are adding our contribution. We of course do not have

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Speaker 1: the silver bullet. Nobody has the silver bullet, but it's

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Speaker 1: very important that all of us contribute to this and

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Speaker 1: that's what we're proud of to do. In addition to

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Speaker 1: the work that we're doing on providing physical standards and

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Speaker 1: methods to allow many factors and regulators to actually test

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Speaker 1: or these compounds in a validated and regulated way. Yeah, Venima,

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Speaker 1: thanks for speaking with me today. Thank you, Thanks for

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Speaker 1: the opportunity. You can read more reporting from Um and Edne,

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Speaker 1: Susan Burfield and Jeff Feely at Bloomberg dot com. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening to us here at The Big Take. It's

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Speaker 1: a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For

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00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: more shows from my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart

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00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Email us questions or comments

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Speaker 1: to Big Take at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer

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00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: of The Big Take is Vicky Bergolina. Our senior producer

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Speaker 1: is Katherine Fink. Our producers are Michael Fallero and Moe Barrow,

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Speaker 1: with additional production assistance from Sam Gebauer. Raphael I'm Seely

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Speaker 1: is our engineer. Our original music was composed by Leo

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Speaker 1: Sidrin I'm west Kosova. We'll be back tomorrow with another

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Speaker 1: Big Take