WEBVTT - S1: Ep 7 - Are You Kidding Me? 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.800 Hi, all, we have some exciting news to share. Paramount 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:07.560 Plus has turned Burden of Guilt into a docuseries. You 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.840 will get to meet the people involved, You'll hear from 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.840 the people who have never spoken before, and you get 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:17.079 to see where the story took place. We are so 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:20.600 proud and excited to share it with you. You can 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:24.120 stream it right now on Paramount Plus. 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.960 After nine days in court, the State of Georgia versus 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:34.479 Jan Barry Sandlin for the murder of Matthew Goulder had 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:35.519 gone to the jury. 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:40.479 Every juror in every criminal trial has the responsibility to 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:43.560 evaluate the evidence to make sure that the state has 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.800 proved the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubts. So I 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.480 suspect that they were singularly focused on is there enough 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.400 evidence to demonstrate that Jan Barry Sandlin committed this crime? 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:05.880 I'm Nancy glam and this is Burden of Guilt, Episode seven. 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:12.160 Are you kidding Me? After one day, on one night 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:16.680 the jury returned. Prosecutor Lie and Mangun didn't have any 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.039 idea which way the decision would go. 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.399 There have been trials in the course of my life 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:25.480 where I thought I certainly had provided enough evidence to 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:27.800 demonstrate a defendant guilt and it was a not guilty verdict, 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:29.960 and then other ones that felt like a much closer 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:31.720 call that were a guilty verdict. 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:34.959 Have you completed the verdict? Would you hand it to 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:36.319 the deputy and let him pass it to me? 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:36.679 Please? 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:43.920 This is a three count indict much. I'll read the 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:48.240 verdict on each of the three counts. Count one is 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:51.080 the malice murder count. The verdict of the jury. We 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.560 the jury found the defendant Jan Barry Sandlin not guilty 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:55.440 of count one. 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.920 Lead Assistant District Attorney Jeff Brickman. 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.280 When the verdict was rad count one malice murder, Jerry 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:03.680 found him not guilty. 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:07.880 Malice murder, meaning that there was an intent to kill. 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.639 My stomach dropped, Leanne's did everybody in our office? I 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.799 can assure you did. As a prosecutor. When count one 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:17.520 is not guilty, bad thoughts start happening. 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.400 Count two is a fella in the murder. We the 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:24.160 jury find the defendant guilty of count two. Count three 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:26.640 is a fellow in the murder. Count We the jury 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:28.680 find the defendant guilty of Count three. 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:34.160 Guilty with mandatory state sentencing guidelines. Judge Fuller went directly 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:35.280 to the next step. 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.239 Council, what are your thoughts on sentence and of the states? 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:40.880 Ready now if the court would let to proceed at this. 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:44.720 Time, Defense counsel Krin Mall could not resist another chance 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:46.079 to show her disdain. 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:48.560 You might as well the misery out of the way. 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.360 You might as well get the misery out of the way. 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:56.560 If Karen thought it was misery, Racy Raquel thought it 0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:00.000 was justice that was finally delivered for the vicious murder 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:04.160 of Matthew. It was the culmination of a decade's long 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:08.480 struggle with family secrets, a solitary search for answers, and 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:12.880 years of collecting evidence, and all this was due to 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:16.000 the work of one brave girl who never forgot her 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:16.680 baby brother. 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.600 Saleh, You've been found guilty of two counts of fell 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.480 Any murder. Each of those two counts. Are are sent 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:25.720 you to life imprisonment. 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:33.040 The court room was quiet. There were no eruptions. Len 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:34.680 Manguin describes the moment. 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:38.000 It's hard because it's not a celebratory feeling when a 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:43.440 jury reaches a guilty verdict. I remember being glad for Tracy, 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:48.160 and glad for Kathy, and glad that the person who 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:52.120 was in my mind unquestionably responsible for Matthew's death, had 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:53.000 been found guilty. 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:57.640 Local and national media covered the verdict. Tracy riquel wasn't 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.840 interested in notoriety. She didn't talk that day, but Kathy spoke. 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.800 Kathy Allman says the trial has been emotionally draining, but 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.200 she finally feels relief after her ex husband's conviction. 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:13.760 Yes, I'm most definite right, Ernie. 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.719 He was on drugs at the time he beat me 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:18.159 for nine and a half years. 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:19.520 That he's where he needs to be. 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.720 Do you remember the moment you heard the judge say guilty. 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:28.720 There was a huge sense of relief and validation. 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.440 Knowing Tracy Riquela as I do now, I was unsurprised 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.840 when Leanne reached into her case file and pulled out 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:39.200 a card that she received after the trial. It's something 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.440 she's kept all these years and was happy to read 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:42.880 to us. 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:46.320 Delianne, it has been more than a year since I 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.520 received that first phone call from you telling me you 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.280 would be handling this case. It was, after all worth it. 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.360 Good luck with your very bright future. I feel fortunate 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:56.359 to have known you. You helped me to heal and 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:56.760 to grow. 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:57.320 Thank you. 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.000 I will be telling my children about you best wishes, 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:01.039 Tracy Rain. 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.799 Wouldn't it be nice if Jan Berry Sandlm was carted 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.200 off to prison and the story ended there well. Shortly 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:12.320 after Jan's conviction came the You've got to be kidding 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:12.839 me moment. 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:17.080 After Jan's conviction, I got a phone call saying that 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:19.239 he'd been granted the new trial. 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.720 In the motion for new trial, the defense attorney Corin 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:27.039 Mall said that she was incompetent. 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.719 Listening to the trial. You could describe Carin in many ways, 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:36.120 but incompetent would not be one of them. Now, she 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:41.000 was saying, she provided Jan Barry Sanlm with ineffective assistance 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:45.200 of counsel. We told you that an autopsy had been 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:49.279 performed at the funeral home two days after Matthew died. 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:55.200 The autopsy was performed by doctor Robert Stivers. After Sandlm 0:05:55.360 --> 0:06:00.800 was convicted, Doctor Stivers called public defender Malling why he 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:06.240 hadn't been contacted to testify during the trial. Even more puzzling, 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.680 why his calls to her directly during the trial had 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.520 been ignored. Stivers had taken photographs of Matthew with bruises 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:18.440 and stress fractures that he said indicated the death was 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.960 an accident. It was how he felt in nineteen seventy one, 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:26.960 and his feelings hadn't changed. Corin Male lobbied for a 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:30.000 new trial, saying she had failed her client by not 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.359 calling doctor Stivers to testify. Her excuse was that a 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:38.400 colleague told her that doctor Stivers was ill. Maybe that 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:42.440 was true, but Corin Maul struck everyone as someone who 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.039 would go to the ends of the earth for a client, 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:46.919 So it didn't really make sense. 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:51.240 I know, miss mal she's a very good public defender, 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.520 and for her to say she was ineffective in that 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.719 second trial only because her client was found guilty of 0:06:57.720 --> 0:06:58.800 a crime that he committed. 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:04.799 Stivers had personal problems that derailed his career. Alcoholism lost 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.039 him his medical license. Could that be the reason he 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:13.320 wasn't previously called to testify? Did she view him as unreliable? 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:16.240 Again? Judge Fuller granted. 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:20.560 It, and that meant a third trial. The prosecutor's office 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:24.040 was flabbergasted. And as for Tracy Raquel. 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:25.600 I just thought this is never going to end, like 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.080 we're just going to do this. I guess so okay, 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:30.960 And he had a new lawyer, and this lawyer had 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:34.640 taken the case because he wanted the publicity. 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:39.360 Steve Sadau was a young, successful criminal defense attorney. He 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:40.720 took the case pro bono. 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:43.520 The reason I got involved in the case is because 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.440 ego wise, I thought that I could try it better 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:49.480 than anyone else could, and if he stood any chance 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.240 to win, it would be with me. 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.720 Decades later, Steve Sadao is still a force in Georgia. 0:07:56.120 --> 0:08:00.000 Former President Donald Trump recently hired him to fight conspiration 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:06.360 charges associated with the twenty twenty election. This time there 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:11.160 was a new prosecution team, Ada Lawrence Delon opened with 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:15.560 this Matthew Stephen Golder laughed out loud for the first 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:19.600 time for his mother on December twenty seventh, nineteen seventy one. 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:24.760 Little did she know it would be his last. Defense 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:29.760 attorney Steve Saydau made his opening statement and immediately referenced 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.520 all the doubt the jury would confront no murder weapon, 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:37.960 no witness, no DNA. The jury would hear from doctor 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:42.520 Robert Stuivers, the medical examiner who had performed the autopsy 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.160 on Matthew just two days after he died. 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:49.560 The state's case was clearly that Sandlin had done something. 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.920 I believe there was equal evidence based on his prior 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:59.120 statement to police that Tracy had, for whatever reason, accidentally 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.080 or otherwise pushed the baby out of the crew. That 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.839 doesn't make Tracy homicidal. It just means the incident or 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:06.720 event occurred. 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:11.199 Steve Saido proved to be a thorough and well prepared attorney, 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.800 but Kathy seemed to get under his skin. 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:17.679 Kathy was very emotional on the stand. I say this 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.080 with all due respect because I don't know her. She 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:21.319 played her part well. 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:26.160 During the first two trials, Tracy Riquel had avoided any 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:30.199 direct contact with jan other than the threatening phone calls 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.439 he made to her home. This time was different. 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.440 I was sitting on a bench outside the courtroom, and 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.920 I just happened to be sitting on the side that's 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:44.760 closest to where they bring the defend it out and out. 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:48.880 He came through the store to my right, and they 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:51.640 walked up to the elevator and pushed the button, and 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.760 he was kind of snickering and you know, happy as 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.080 can be. He didn't know it was there. I just 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.360 don't know what came over me. I stood up and 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:03.960 I stood there and as they stepped into the elevator. 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:05.640 They turned around, and I think all three of them 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:09.280 had a moment of shock. But he just looked like 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:11.680 a deer in headlights, which is not something I ever saw. 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.679 I just took two steps forward and just source stood there. 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:18.360 I didn't say anything, but it was kind of this 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:22.600 moment that yeah, I'm okay, I'm not afraid of you anymore. 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.040 I mean, you never make the. 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:30.360 Nightmares go away, but that person, you can't hurt me, 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.000 So I thought it was kind of a big moment 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:33.320 for me. 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:46.920 Inside the courtroom, defense attorney Steve Saydau spent hours grilling 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.880 doctor Joe Burton. Still, no matter what the defense tried, 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:52.679 he was steadfast. 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.880 I've never been certain about certain about a lot of things. 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.480 I do forensically, very few things, as a matter of fact, 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.360 But I'm as close to one hundred percent certain as 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:07.000 they could be that these fractures in this child, as 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:09.920 I see them, could not have occurred from falling out 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:11.600 of a bed onto a carpeted floor. 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:20.120 The star witness for the defense was doctor Robert Stivers. 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.880 His absence from the first and second trials was the 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:27.560 reason for the third trial, and his appearance was not 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:31.839 without controversy. It was noted that he wasn't licensed at 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.319 the time of the trial. Nevertheless, he was accepted as 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:39.040 an expert witness by the court, and in his opinion, 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:46.280 Matthew's injuries had been the result of an accident. Tensions 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.360 were running high in the courthouse. While on a break, 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:53.319 Kathy let doctor Stivers know what she thought of his testimony. 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:56.880 He went downstairs, you know, to leave the building for line, 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:58.960 and there were a few people in my family who, 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:01.920 you know, sort of gave him their two cents on 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:03.920 what he had said. And he came back to the 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.319 court room after lunch and told the judge and had 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.800 us all kicked out, so nobody was allowed in the 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:09.160 quirt room. 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:13.199 The Kathy admitted to the judge she told doctor Stivers, 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.600 by God, you'll pay for what you've done. But now 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:20.319 Tracy Riquel couldn't be in the courtroom. She actually didn't 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.320 have to worry. Doctor Stivers was a witness, but not 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:28.000 a star. It wasn't smooth testimony, and it certainly didn't 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.720 rival the expert testimony of doctor Burton. 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.920 The medical examiner's testimony was simply devastating, and we could 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.600 not overcome it. We didn't have an expert to do so, 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.720 couldn't find an expert to do so. 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:45.600 Jan Berry Sandlin received a new trial, but was left 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.839 with the same outcome, guilty. He was convicted a second 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:51.439 time by a new jury. 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.520 We could not find someone who would come in and 0:12:54.600 --> 0:13:01.200 testify that the injuries were consistent with falling out of 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:06.000 a crew. The problem is finding an expert who's willing 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.880 to get on the witness stand and testify that under 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:16.079 these horrible circumstances this is a reasonable possibility and then 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:17.960 have to live with that as an expert. From that 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:18.400 point on. 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:22.400 It also makes me wonder, why wouldn't anybody say that, 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.520 is it possible he couldn't have died from flying. 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:25.920 Out of the crypt? 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:31.040 Is certainly the state's position, and what the jury must 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:35.520 have ultimately believed is that they proved beyond a reasonable 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.000 doubt that it could not have happened the way Jan 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.440 Sandlin had previously said it did. 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:43.199 District Attorney J. 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:49.040 Tom Morgan, this case was not won or lost by 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.400 the attorneys, Mister sada Al, it's a great trial lawyer. 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.120 The jury looked at the evidence, and the evidence is 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:56.880 what convicted Jan Berry Sutlin. 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:03.359 It was over. It was really over. In courtroom footage, 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:07.440 you can see Tracy Roquel seated near Cathy for the verdict. 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:11.320 After it was read, her head disappeared into her lap. 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.520 Cathy tried to comfort her and for a moment they 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:18.400 shared an embrace. But then you see Tracy Raquel slide 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.840 down the bench. It was like she suddenly remembered something 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.560 she couldn't trust that hug and the courtroom started to 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.720 empty out and in the footage you can also see 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.840 that jan Berry Sandlin had lost the swagger of the 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.240 first two trials and looked small. He stopped trying to 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.840 make eye contact with everyone and seemed intent on leaving 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.160 as quickly as he could. This wasn't fun for him anymore. 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:46.160 Tracy Raquel had a chief Justice for Matthew a second time, 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:53.000 but her work wasn't done. The feeling of relief was fleeting. 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.480 There were two other people Tracy Roquel had been thinking 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.600 about for years. They were close to her heart, and 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.840 although she had never met either of them, she felt 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:07.200 intimately connected to both. Tracy Riquel believes they both could 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.160 have been killed by her father. Neither one of them 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.000 has received the attention that Matthew's case has. One was 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:16.680 a police officer. I'll tell you about him in a bit. 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:21.320 The other was Jan's first wife, nineteen year old Nancy Tigeter. 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.720 Like Kathy, she was a teenager who fell for Jan 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.600 before she realized he was a violent man. Jan married 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:34.160 Nancy but was seeing Kathy on the side. Then Nancy 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:39.160 supposedly committed suicide by shooting herself in the abdomen. She 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.720 was pregnant with another man's baby at the time. We 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.400 met her best friend from high school at Jackie Wilson. 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.520 She had first hand knowledge of their relationship. 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.120 Jan was abusive to her when they were in the 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:54.120 apartment when it was just her and him. And I 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.680 only know that because that's what she'd say. She said, No, 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:00.480 I can't. Jan wouldn't be tail out of me. What 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.120 way he'd hit her, I don't know. There was a 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.520 couple of times she had bruises on her face. 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:08.160 According to Jackie, the night Nancy killed herself, she was 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.000 meeting with Jan to try and work out their differences. 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:16.280 Nancy just thought that because she'd had Jaybird, she was 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:18.880 supposed to make it work. 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:23.240 J Bird was Jay Salmon. Nancy and Jan's son. 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.320 Jaybird is what his mommy called hi, but it's what 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.120 I'm called him since the day was born. 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.760 Jackie Wilson was supposed to meet Nancy the morning after 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:32.360 she died. 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.400 I went over to pick her up to go and 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:37.280 found out she wasn't here anymore. 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.680 Jackie was pretty straightforward about her feelings about Jan. 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.000 The reality was I wasn't there, so all I could 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.320 do was say, I don't want them around, and I 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:56.640 don't wanting around Jaybird either, And mister miss Tagatter told 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.880 me that they did not want Jay to dislike or 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:01.120 his father. 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:06.040 In the conversation Tracy Raquel taped with Kathy, the topic 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.639 of Jan's first wife, Nancy, had surfaced. You heard this 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:13.760 in episode three, and the District Attorney's office also became 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.000 aware of the conversation when it happened. 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.120 But you don't think he was responsible for killing her? 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:20.600 Yes? 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:22.959 I do. 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.560 Do you mean you actually think he pulled the trigger. 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.840 I don't know if he actually pulled the trigger or 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.080 if he talked her into pulling the trigger, but I 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:38.480 think either way he's responsible. Jan Sandlin, in my book, 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.760 either killed her himself or. 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:43.080 Cost to happen. 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.560 Just in my life, he was the last person that 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:47.640 actually saw her. 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:56.760 Medical examiner doctor Joe Burton, was interested in investigating the case. 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:03.119 There was some suspicion aspects to her suicide. A sheet 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.600 was wrapped around her after she died. She had shot 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:11.760 herself in the abdomen. Investigator Jim Maybe found that very odd. 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:16.160 Well, someone wants to commit suicide, they want no pain involved. 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.920 To shoot yourself in the abdomen. You might not die, 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.600 you might just sit there and suffer. That bothered me 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.919 my experience as a forensic death destigator. Of all the 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.200 cases that I've worked, which is over five thousand cases, 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:34.480 I've never had a woman sheet herself in the abdomen, 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:35.960 especially pregnant. 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.760 And the suicide note didn't ring true. 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:46.040 The suicide note was inconsistent, lots of misspellings, according to 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:48.399 her family, not consistent with who she was. 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.280 While doctor Burton and Decab County were prepared to take 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.879 another look at Nancy's death, they ran into a wall. 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:58.199 Tercy Riquel explains. 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:04.240 Nancy Taggert's family absolutely had an opportunity to reopen that 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.760 case after Matthew's case and her son my half brother. 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:13.960 He really wanted that and the family absolutely did not 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.000 want that. They didn't want to talk about it, and 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.800 because he loved them and was so close to them, 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:21.320 he just shut it down. 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.400 The thought of recreating the crime scene and possibly exhuming 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.680 her body it was just too much for her parents. 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:32.639 People grieve in different ways, but Jan did not appear 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.680 to mourn the loss of his first wife, Nancy. 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:39.800 He literally moved in with Kathy and Matthew and I 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:41.280 Right after that. 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:46.320 Jan and Nancy's son Jay, respected his grandparents' wishes. They 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.919 were more like his parents. They had raised him. He 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.359 loved them. Now that they have passed, he would be 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:56.000 open to someone looking into his mother's death again. But 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.240 the team that was willing to do that twenty five 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:03.440 years ago is long go. But Tracy Raquel has not forgotten. 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:06.240 Let me talk to you about William David Corn. Okay, 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:10.639 William David Korn was a police officer who was shot 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:14.919 to death. His case was never solved, you wrote on 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:18.840 a Fallen Officer website. Officer William David Korn has been 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.760 linked to my soul, along with Matthew Golder and Nancy 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:27.680 Tegetter for forty two years. I spent nearly thirty years 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.879 fighting for justice for all three, but I was only 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.240 able to find it for Matthew. There's a connection between 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:38.400 them all. I'm sorry for the pain and unanswered questions 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.919 that Officer Korn's family still has. I was only two 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:45.320 years old when Officer William David Corn was killed. I 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.320 never knew him, but I've always loved him and always 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:53.560 will Signed Tracy Golder, someone who knows, and you wrote 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:55.320 that in twenty thirteen. 0:20:55.720 --> 0:21:00.239 My life growing up as a child, Kathy. You know, 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.800 there's very specific things that she has said, and that's her. 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:05.040 Story, like it's never changed. 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:10.919 Kathy always said that Jan was responsible for Nancy's death 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:13.720 because he came home to her that night. 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.800 So I knew about Nancy Tageer like very very young. 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:22.160 And then the other thing that Kathy would always say 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:25.040 is yeah, he also killed that police officer. 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:34.600 You may remember, I went to speak with Kathy Ahman 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:36.040 to see what she had to say. 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:40.680 I really can't get drawn into Tracy's fantasies anymore. 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:43.960 She has been lying in torturing me for thirty years. 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:45.320 I can't take it anymore. 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:49.720 What do you mean, Kathy? What is she lying about. 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:54.040 Everything that police Officer William David Korn was only twenty 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:56.399 four years old when he was shot through the heart 0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:01.440 while moonlighting at an apartment complex as a security guard 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:04.520 in the evening. The Decab police chief thought he had 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:07.879 surprised some burglars in the clubhouse, but nothing was taken. 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.200 Officer Corn was shot multiple times with his own handgun. 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:16.040 Investigator Jim Maybe was also interested in the case. 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:19.919 Before I came to the medical Examiner's office, I'd been 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:23.359 assigned a cold case file where a police officer had 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:26.840 been killed about the time that her baby brother had 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:31.680 been killed. And one of the people that I came 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.639 across who became a person of interest in that police 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:36.640 officer death was being salein. 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:39.240 Although he died from a shot to the heart, the 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:42.600 killer shot him in the head after he was already dead. 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:47.119 Nobody really knows what the connection was between Jan Barry 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:51.040 Sandlin and William David Korn, but for Jim Maybe. 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:56.560 Jim Maybe was very certain that Jan was a suspect. 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:59.280 In fact, he was assigned to that case. 0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:03.600 Me and my partner, you know, we started looking into it. 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:06.240 Jim Maybe and I have talked about it over the years. 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:10.639 He would warn me into the late nineties, into the 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:14.240 early two thousands, that this was too dangerous of a 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:18.920 subject to get into because it suspected that it had 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:23.119 to do with Dixie Mafia, because Jan was part of 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:24.080 that organization. 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:26.840 I didn't even know who the Dixie Mafia was. 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:31.840 Tracy Riquel's first husband had a relative in law enforcement, 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:34.000 and he gave her some information. 0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:38.200 His uncle was FBI and had done some looking into Jan. 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:41.160