WEBVTT - Dr. FOIA 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:05.800 If you thought four hours a day, minutes a week 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.440 was enough, think again. He's the last remnants of the 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.280 old republic a sole fashion of fairness. He treats track 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:15.880 heads in the ghetto cutter the same as the rich 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:20.280 pill poppers in the penthouse to clearinghouse, some hot takes, 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:24.520 Break three for something special. Fifth Hour with Ben Maller 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:31.560 starts right now in the air everywhere. We are back 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:35.519 at it again, another weekend in the Magic podcast Box. 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.000 He're good to have you hanging out. We'll have podcast 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:40.040 every single day. We do is eight days a week. 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.920 Today obviously the Friday podcast, but we have on Saturday 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:48.479 we will take a look at some random things that 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:50.159 pop up. Whatever is on the Saturday podcast and the 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:53.880 mailbag on Sunday. So very exciting. Joined by the man 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.640 west of the four oh five making his way down 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:04.480 east of the four oh five, David Gascon on the 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:13.440 fifth foul h. It's a nice little bag of fun 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:15.400 that we have over the weekend. And of course I 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:17.880 dip my hand into the deep end of the pool 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:23.360 and pull out guests that is unsuspecting to those that 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:25.840 listen to our show, do not pull the muscle here 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:27.840 patting yourself from the back. I will not. I will 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:31.360 not do that. I will not do I U. I 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.560 don't have any fan boys like you that do that 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:35.520 for me either. I do not. I do not have 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.160 fan boys. I have supporters. I have people that are 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.039 believers in the Mallard Militia cause and support what we 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.800 do here. But yeah, every Friday. Now. Last week we 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:47.800 had the big radio story, so we didn't have anyone 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.240 on because the big Clay Travis replacing Russia INMBOSS story 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:53.800 was a big, big deal in our world, so we 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.080 didn't end up putting anybody on. But this week the 0:01:56.160 --> 0:02:00.080 big story. It's not a sports story, although guests on 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:04.480 will argue it is a sports it's it sampled our 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:09.079 occupation for quite a while. Yes, the world, we know 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.079 the music stopped in the world. We know there were 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:18.680 no no games, no games for you, no games for you. 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.359 The sporting world shutdown for a hundred and thirty four 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:26.720 days as a result of the COVID and the whole 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:31.520 world shut down, working from home and whatnot. So I 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:36.720 bring this up because BuzzFeed News, through a freedom of 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.799 information requests, they had to file a lawsuit here. They 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.920 tracked down not all but a large number thousands of 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:49.120 pages of email from Dr Fauci, the man running the 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:54.000 COVID nineteen crisis in America. And as you might imagine, 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:58.320 the reaction to these emails has been over the top, 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:00.640 split down party lines of some But I think this 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:02.440 is nothing, and there's other people who think, my god, 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.320 this is the smoking gun. And it's it's like a 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.720 jury trial where you put two people into a room 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:10.959 and you give them the same evidence and they look 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.480 at it differently. It's like my it's like my minor 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:18.079 investment into a MC stock. It is pretty volatile at 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.960 the moment. Fair to say, right is it up or down? 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:23.919 It's up right now? I don't know. It depends did 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:27.520 I short the market or did I find I don't know. 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:31.360 I see the problem is when to It's like being 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:33.000 a gambler. You gott know when to hold it and 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:35.240 you gotta know when to let it go. Yeah, And 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.240 that's the tough thing about the stock market. That's the 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.760 interesting thing about this story, though, is is when when 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:45.520 was information I guess discovered and what was it released 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:48.560 to the public, And then of course what happened between 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.120 I don't want to say enemy lines, but for all 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:56.360 intensive purposes. You're you're working with a foreign adversary. So 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:58.840 a lot of these things that are happening with the 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.880 coronavirus have been upening on foreign land. And you know, 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:08.080 BuzzFeed obviously looking into this heavily. It's uh, it's a 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:12.880 mountain of information. Yeah, it's a it's it's an interesting story. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.520 I didn't get through a fraction of the emails. I 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:17.760 did look through some of them, but I read the 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.960 story that was on BuzzFeed News and and it's it's 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.120 it's like I used the analogy all the time. We 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.080 do this in sports, but in politics, it's a political term. 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.400 You have a public position and you have a private position. 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:32.440 And so with Dr Fauci, you know, the way you 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:34.600 read these emails, you could interpret them that he had 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.320 a public position that he was telling the American people, 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.039 and privately he thought this was a lot of stuff 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.040 he was saying was bullshit based on based on what 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.360 we were reading in some of those emails. That's that's 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.280 my takeaway from it. But let's talk to the one 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:49.840 of the people to put this story together, one of 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.720 the reporters at BuzzFeed News joining us. He's a up 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.400 and coming reporting star. You're gonna hear a lot from 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.440 this woman here over the next few years. Imagine. Natalie 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.920 Bentendorff is her name. She was one of the writers 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:06.880 there at BuzzFeed to put the story together and went 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:11.599 through all Dr Fauci's emails there. So, uh, Natalie, welcome, 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:13.800 thank you for joining us here on the fifth hour. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:18.720 And in your opinion here, what was the most interesting 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.800 thing that you uncovered from these thousands of emails from 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.800 Dr Fauci. Yeah, so I think that the thing that 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.080 I took away was really what we see is the 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:33.040 content of these emails. Right. There's a lot of interpretations 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.960 as to what some of these emails mean, what this 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.440 Faucci Um, what he's thinking at the beginning of this pandemic, 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.560 where is it going? But if we're looking at the 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:43.960 actual content and his words, I think the thing that 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.719 struck me the most was really this email where you know, 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:52.360 an ABC reporters asking him early on of last year 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.280 in you know, what do you think the death toll 0:05:55.560 --> 0:06:00.200 is going to be from COVID nineteen and he responds 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.800 um with the number that the report has given him, 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:04.760 which is five K, and says, you know what I 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:09.040 think that's way too high, um. And just reading that exchange, 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:11.359 you know, it's a short sentence in reply to the 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.039 reporter saying that he thinks that death told too high. 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.599 And we're here, right, we're well past five hundred thousand 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.120 deaths from COVID in this country. And I think it 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:24.719 really is a telling um thing about Fauci, which is 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:28.400 that you know, he's a human, right, he's the physician 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:30.400 who a lot of us have turned to in pandemic, 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:34.039 but he also didn't understand how much of a force 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.680 this virus was going to take our country by, um, 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:39.559 And so I think a lot of those emails actually 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:44.400 showcase that. Right from January until June, I mean, we 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:46.159 didn't know how long this thing was gonna last, even 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:48.560 Sauci didn't, and he didn't know how how many lives 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.560 it would claim, and it's a really devastating thing to see, 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.400 but it's very enlightening to see how much we've learned 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.880 from that point. So I think that's what I really 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.520 took away from a lot of these emails. Yeah, I 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.800 love the fact that they were like regular people, and 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.039 you mentioned in that were like emailing, and he was 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.080 writing back to like regular people. I think it's amazing 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:12.400 to me because you know, most people are like, I'm 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.040 just gonna lead that, why would I write back? But 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:18.360 he hes a number of times right and right back exactly. Yeah. 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.160 I mean he was revered as a celebrity. I mean 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.080 we all know, we were all laughing right about just 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.560 kind of the the fourth of nature that it became 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:32.160 with Sauccia's um, you know, creating all these this merchandise 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.840 right around him with his name everywhere and these touchy 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:40.080 sucks and saucy doughnuts and his face on T shirts. Um. 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:44.880 And it's so interesting seeing actually in these emails, UM, 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:48.400 how uncomfortable it was for him to actually see all 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.360 of that, like the same and kind of this these 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:55.200 people being obsessed with him, um, and revering him to 0:07:55.320 --> 0:08:00.160 this state of you know, he's just regarded so highly. Um, 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:02.280 he's not super comfortable with that. I mean, science and 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.560 health is what he specializes in, and he it just 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.320 blew up so quickly. UM. So it's really interesting seeing 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.920 his responses to a lot of those. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:13.880 And and also now it kind of walked me through 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.520 you're part of the team there that you're you're talking 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.200 about tons of email. I mean, this is a lot 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:23.120 to go through, Like what's the process like, like how 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.040 you know, how did you guys work your way through 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:32.480 tons of data? He is is an amazing Yeah, it's 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.160 really cool. I like sharing kind of the process behind 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.240 UM stories, Right, the story behind the story is really 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.559 fun to talk about because there's so much that goes 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.760 into especially putting out a story of this size. Now, 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.400 as we stayed in in the article, UM, what made 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.000 this possible was for your request, right, So that's the 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.720 Freedom of Information Act, and that actually allows us to 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:58.480 get documents from government agencies. Right, It's legal to put 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:02.720 in those requests and basically the government agency is supposed 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.320 to turn those over. Now, we sent these in obviously 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:09.480 to the National Institute of Helps UM, and we were 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:16.560 able to obtain um plus pages of these emails. And 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.040 this request was one that Jason put in. This was 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:24.040 actually probably UM starting in March and then you know 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.560 went into the summer. But the way that works is, 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.040 you know what we do to actually speed up the 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.320 process because obviously to get all of these emails is 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:36.800 a really long process. And sometimes what happens is, you know, 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:41.120 very often actually the government agency won't respond or they'll 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:43.040 just kind of say, hey, this is too much to 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.800 get back to you. And so BuzzFeed actually ended up 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.840 biling a lawsuit UM. And really all that does is 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.440 just speed up the process, right because they have to 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:54.480 get these We had documents to us a little bit 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.600 quicker UM, and so what we did is we asked 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:03.440 for all emails text sent and received by Dr Fauci 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:08.760 mentioning or referring to COVID nineteen coronavirus, and any and 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.600 all internal studies on COVID. So that was our specific request, 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:14.960 and we had to send in multiple UM to just 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:18.280 really keep expanding the time period. So that's really how 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.120 we got these documents. And then kind of the last 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.880 five months is what Jason and I have been working on, 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.680 which is the article itself of how do we really 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:30.240 write an article that is going to sum up what 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:34.439 these UM documents are saying? Right, so not all people 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.679 are going to see these documents and read all three thousand, 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:39.920 two hundred pages of these, but we want to pull 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.760 out what's the important parts of these and what are 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:44.880 the things that people really need to know? What are 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.480 we learning there's no crazy smoking guns, in here, Right, 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.400 it's really what we're seeing from a broader you know, 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:56.480 stepping back, what is Fauci's communication style and what were 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:58.960 some of the things of the points of discussion from 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.160 early on in the pants mix. So that was kind 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.960 of the process of how we got this thing out there. Yeah, 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.600 I mean, I'm sure you've seen the reaction here and 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.040 it's um some of these I mean it's been picked 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.719 apart some of the emails and and right not in Uh, 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.199 what is your take here on the the reaction As 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:19.440 everything in the country, it's divided on party lines, right, 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:23.000 people have strong opinions on each side. Something this makes 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:25.959 Dr Facci, as you said, look more human. Other people 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:27.720 think that we know, wait a minute, he was saying 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:31.920 one thing privately and there was something else publicly. So right, right, Yeah, 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.200 it's it's a good thing you discussed. And something you 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:38.000 know that we did at BuzzFeed is we said, you 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.160 know what, it's important for us to release all of 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:45.160 these documents. And that's something that differs from the article 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.840 that the Washington Post wrote. Right, they obtained um eight 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.960 hundred pages of these emails, and we had, you know, 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.040 several thousand of them, and we actually released all of 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:57.319 them instead of kind of summing them up and releasing 0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.120 a few of the ones that we mentioned like the 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:03.400 post did. Obviously, what comes with that is people create 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:07.199 their own interpretations of what these emails say, right, without 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:11.160 actually maybe reading all of the pages or getting all 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:13.360 of the contact. And so that's the thing that comes 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.800 along with releasing this entire batch to the public, for 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.640 them to really just do what they will with them. UM. 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:22.599 And so you know, the things that we've heard a 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.640 lot about UM and seen response wise is a lot 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:30.040 of stuff about the email where Fauci is referring to 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:34.319 masks um not really being effective, right, and this is 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:38.000 in back in February UM, and so people have really 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.480 grabbed onto that and said, you know, this is proof 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:44.360 that you know this masks are helping or fout she 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:49.319 knew and kind of these very um like making these 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.560 statements that that's you know, generalizing um what thought she 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:54.920 was thinking about that? But to be frank, I think 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.440 that that shows what I was stating earlier, which is 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:01.120 that we've really grown scientifically of what we know about 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.200 this virus, and it's just showing that you know, Facci 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.320 doesn't know everything about this virus. No physician in the 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.640 world knows everything about um COVID nineteen and how it 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.280 overtakes the human body and what works and what didn't. 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.960 And this was you know, before the who actually declared 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.400 COVID nineteen pandemic. We did not know at this time 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:23.400 that people needed to wear masks for this airborne virus. 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.960 So that's an example of something that you know, people 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.960 are grasping onto us this could mean this, or this 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.080 could mean that. But I think as a as a 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:33.720 journalist's important for us, and when we were reading these 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.080 emails is you know, it's not something that we can 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:39.520 do where we can read these emails and actually interpret 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.120 and guess you know what Sauchie meant? Well, what was 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.080 STOUCHI like really saying like, let's read between the line. 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.640 You can't do that as a journalist when you're reading 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.600 these documents. You have to take it up face value, 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:52.800 and then you have to look at the bigger picture. 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.920 And so I think that's what gets really dangerous is 0:13:55.960 --> 0:14:00.000 when people start making these assumptions and bigger interpretations onto 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.600 what found she could have meant, or what this means, 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:07.079 when it's really going beyond the words on the page. Yeah, 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.320 and then I saw his quote the other day here 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.559 he said he did say his emails he thought were 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:16.520 taken out of context there and he kind of like dismissed. 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.160 The reaction was just kind of like what you're saying, right, 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:21.240 But it really is that's like, that's like a jury 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:22.720 trial right now. I mean, that's one of the things 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.200 about the court system. You know, people look at the 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.560 evidence and they have different opinions on the evidence, and 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.920 so that's that's where we are right now. Uh, totally 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.280 with this. And I also saw I saw the White 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.560 House they said they did not want to comment. What 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:40.160 was your reaction to that they wouldn't comment on your story? Yeah, 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.480 I mean I think that there's you know, one of 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.320 the big things that we had in our article was 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:49.520 addressing the political pressure right that fell onto Sauci. And 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.240 obviously that expands because now we're in a different um 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.280 administration that's in the White House than was when we 0:14:56.280 --> 0:15:01.240 were actually filing these Foyer requests and reading through these documents, UM, 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:05.640 and so it's really interesting to see the responses. I 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.440 don't see any of these kind of you know, UM 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.800 Fauci didn't comment on our story. Also, UM for the record, 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.880 and you know, I don't see that necessarily as a 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.200 good or bad thing when I'm reporting on this stuff, right, 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.240 So my job, um, and Jason's job is really to 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:25.320 obtain these documents and see, you know, whoever we are 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.520 mentioning or getting in touch with as a source for 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.520 the article is to just see, you know, reach out 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.560 to them, Hey, we have your name in here. You know, 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:36.960 we wanted to know if you'd like to comment, would 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.040 you like to add anything? Um? And obviously the White 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.960 House is mentioned in their fauci has mentioned in there. 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:46.080 Other people who have written emails to Faucier mentioned, and 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.800 so it's important for us to reach out to those 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:53.120 people and ask for comment. I think that information is important, 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.880 whether they comment or not. And I can't be the 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.040 judge of what that means or what that says. But um, 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.440 it's important for the public to know that the White 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.800 House didn't have anything to add. Thought she didn't have 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.880 anything he wanted to add to our story. UM. And 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.000 that you know, people will do with what they will. Natalie, 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.200 you mentioned him a couple of times, but Jason, Jason Leopold, 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:15.880 he's obviously the colleague of yours. Can you give us, 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.040 and for those that don't follow BuzzFeed, can you give 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.480 us a little bit of background on Jason and what 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.600 he actually does for the company. Yeah. So Jason Um 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:29.160 has been a great mentor to me. Actually, So he is, 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.000 you know, someone who I've learned a lot about UM 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:36.600 document reporting and really what Foyer requests are UM. And 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:41.560 he is the senior investigative reporter for BuzzFeed News and 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:46.640 he was previously at Al Jazeera and Vice News as well. UM. 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.840 And he did some really fantastic work with the Finson 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.680 Files that came out a few years ago. And so 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:57.760 his beat really is he is a fantastic reporter when 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.960 it comes to filing Foyer quests and really getting into 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.200 the nitty gritty when it comes to the government and 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.000 getting those documents and publishing them. That is his UM 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.440 strong suit and what he's really fantastic at. And so 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:16.399 he you know, was a two thousand eighteen Pulitzer Prize 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:19.840 winner UM and he was the recipient of the IRA 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:23.520 two sixteen fl I Award UM. And he's gotten you know, 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.160 many many awards for his reporting and this deep investigative work. 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:31.520 Because it's time consuming stuff UM to read through documents 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:35.080 and to put these stories together. But he's been a 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.000 fantastic person to learn from. UM. I'm more of an 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:41.520 early career reporter and who's really interested in investigative work. 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.280 And I've just been blown away and really impressed with 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:48.520 um how much I've learned on this project, especially so Yeah, 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.040 Jason's great. The gravity involved in this is obviously one 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:57.399 for a generation and generations UM. I think Ben and 0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:59.399 I have talked about this at good length in the past, 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:03.359 just because profession were in UM we oddly enough how 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.679 to bear down when sports weren't going on for a 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.000 long period of time. And I think the biggest thing, 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.280 and they're not just for us, but I think Americans 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:13.800 and a lot of people across the world as a whole, 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:18.720 like we're looking for not only information but now accountability, 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.280 and so looking at Foucci's emails and the correspondence that 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.560 he's had with a lot of people, I mean, the 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.560 mask issues is one thing, but the other thing is 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:34.840 just the relationship with Foucci, the Wuhan Lab and the Chinese. 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.879 And you know, oftentimes you're taught, even when you're young. 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.840 If you don't know the answer to a question, typically 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:45.480 the answer is always money and and so that is 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.240 the biggest thing for for me, and what you and 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:51.280 Jason are doing right now is that you're connecting a 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.119 lot of different dots. So where does this lead or 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.399 where do you feel like this is leading? And have 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.320 you looked under the I guess the Christmas tree that 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.399 is the the Chinese government because obviously there's a lot 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:06.479 of things underneath that thing. Yeah, I think that you 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.080 know again what I said about just like what we 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.520 were able to extract from these right, because this is 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.679 something that Jason and I were thinking about the whole 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.959 time while reading through these documents, is what's the bigger 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:22.760 picture here and what are we really grasping from his 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:28.960 correspondence thouts correspondence with foreign officials. I mean, it's really impressive, Um, 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:34.320 how many emails there are from you know, different health 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.679 authorities and physicians all around the world who thought she 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.320 has been able to make connections with Um with his 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:45.440 work from the AIDS crisis in the nineties and working 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:50.399 through different epidemics, right and just building this network of 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:52.760 physicians all around the world. Right, So we saw this 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:57.520 correspondence and specifically with some of those Chinese health officials too, 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.320 and so I think that you know, one of the 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:04.919 emails that people are really circulating is one from April 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:10.320 eighteen in and that was UM from Dr Peter Dazac 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.520 and that was UM, you know someone who got he 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:17.560 made very he was acquaintances with, right, And so they 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:21.639 actually were corresponding about UM the origins. Right. This is 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:25.679 obviously something that they discussed early on in UM. But 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:27.800 I think people have really pulled that part of it 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.960 and saying you know, UM, where Dr Dazak says, from 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.840 my perspective, your comments are brave and coming from your 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.639 trusted voice, will help disturb the myths being spun around 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.240 the viruses origins and so UM. I think the thing 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:44.639 that you know is on the top of all of 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:48.760 our minds is what was covered up, right, like where 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.160 did this virus come from? UM? Was it from a lab? 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:56.920 And I think that these emails actually don't give as 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.480 much of you know, UM, as many ants or as 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.800 we might hope to that question about where the virus 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:06.320 came from if it came from a lab. UM. It 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.320 really is just showing that this was a discussion that 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:13.600 was happening among health officials very early on in maybe 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:17.560 even you know, before many people had come up with 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:21.000 different conspiracies at this point, right. So I think that 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:24.800 for me, like Jason and I really didn't spend a 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.280 lot of time looking into you know, what do these 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:32.320 emails confirm, rather than what are the discussions that were happening. 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.240 I don't think that there's anything that can be gleaned 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.120 from that. Um. But as you mentioned, I mean, like 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:42.000 really Sauci has addressed that and said that, you know, 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:44.960 he feels his emails are being taken out of context 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:48.080 and um, that there's a lot being pulled out and 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.560 kind of words put in his mouth from words that 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:54.200 weren't said. And so I think that, you know, out 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:58.240 of fairness and out of you know, the ethical practices 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:02.760 of journalism, we really can't say anything definitively about the 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:05.720 viruses origins and if the emails really say anything about them. 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:08.120 Be sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.520 Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific. Be 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:14.040 sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:17.760 weekdays at two am eastern eleven pm Pacific on Fox 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:20.919 Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. Yeah, I 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:23.159 think the biggest thing though, and something like this is 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:26.200 that your job and that kind of capacity, especially since 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:28.800 it is so unique, is you have to ask those 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:32.680