1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: If you thought four hours a day, minutes a week 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: was enough, think again. He's the last remnants of the 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: old republic a sole fashion of fairness. He treats track 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: heads in the ghetto cutter the same as the rich 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: pill poppers in the penthouse to clearinghouse, some hot takes, 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: Break three for something special. Fifth Hour with Ben Maller 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: starts right now in the air everywhere. We are back 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: at it again, another weekend in the Magic podcast Box. 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: He're good to have you hanging out. We'll have podcast 10 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: every single day. We do is eight days a week. 11 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: Today obviously the Friday podcast, but we have on Saturday 12 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: we will take a look at some random things that 13 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: pop up. Whatever is on the Saturday podcast and the 14 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: mailbag on Sunday. So very exciting. Joined by the man 15 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: west of the four oh five making his way down 16 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: east of the four oh five, David Gascon on the 17 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: fifth foul h. It's a nice little bag of fun 18 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: that we have over the weekend. And of course I 19 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: dip my hand into the deep end of the pool 20 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: and pull out guests that is unsuspecting to those that 21 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: listen to our show, do not pull the muscle here 22 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: patting yourself from the back. I will not. I will 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: not do that. I will not do I U. I 24 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: don't have any fan boys like you that do that 25 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: for me either. I do not. I do not have 26 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: fan boys. I have supporters. I have people that are 27 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: believers in the Mallard Militia cause and support what we 28 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: do here. But yeah, every Friday. Now. Last week we 29 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: had the big radio story, so we didn't have anyone 30 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: on because the big Clay Travis replacing Russia INMBOSS story 31 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: was a big, big deal in our world, so we 32 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: didn't end up putting anybody on. But this week the 33 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: big story. It's not a sports story, although guests on 34 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: will argue it is a sports it's it sampled our 35 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 1: occupation for quite a while. Yes, the world, we know 36 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: the music stopped in the world. We know there were 37 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: no no games, no games for you, no games for you. 38 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: The sporting world shutdown for a hundred and thirty four 39 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: days as a result of the COVID and the whole 40 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: world shut down, working from home and whatnot. So I 41 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: bring this up because BuzzFeed News, through a freedom of 42 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: information requests, they had to file a lawsuit here. They 43 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: tracked down not all but a large number thousands of 44 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: pages of email from Dr Fauci, the man running the 45 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen crisis in America. And as you might imagine, 46 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: the reaction to these emails has been over the top, 47 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: split down party lines of some But I think this 48 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: is nothing, and there's other people who think, my god, 49 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: this is the smoking gun. And it's it's like a 50 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: jury trial where you put two people into a room 51 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 1: and you give them the same evidence and they look 52 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: at it differently. It's like my it's like my minor 53 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: investment into a MC stock. It is pretty volatile at 54 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: the moment. Fair to say, right is it up or down? 55 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: It's up right now? I don't know. It depends did 56 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: I short the market or did I find I don't know. 57 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: I see the problem is when to It's like being 58 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: a gambler. You gott know when to hold it and 59 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: you gotta know when to let it go. Yeah, And 60 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: that's the tough thing about the stock market. That's the 61 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: interesting thing about this story, though, is is when when 62 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: was information I guess discovered and what was it released 63 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: to the public, And then of course what happened between 64 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to say enemy lines, but for all 65 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: intensive purposes. You're you're working with a foreign adversary. So 66 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: a lot of these things that are happening with the 67 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: coronavirus have been upening on foreign land. And you know, 68 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: BuzzFeed obviously looking into this heavily. It's uh, it's a 69 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: mountain of information. Yeah, it's a it's it's an interesting story. 70 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: I didn't get through a fraction of the emails. I 71 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: did look through some of them, but I read the 72 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: story that was on BuzzFeed News and and it's it's 73 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: it's like I used the analogy all the time. We 74 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: do this in sports, but in politics, it's a political term. 75 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: You have a public position and you have a private position. 76 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: And so with Dr Fauci, you know, the way you 77 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: read these emails, you could interpret them that he had 78 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: a public position that he was telling the American people, 79 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: and privately he thought this was a lot of stuff 80 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: he was saying was bullshit based on based on what 81 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: we were reading in some of those emails. That's that's 82 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: my takeaway from it. But let's talk to the one 83 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: of the people to put this story together, one of 84 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: the reporters at BuzzFeed News joining us. He's a up 85 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: and coming reporting star. You're gonna hear a lot from 86 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: this woman here over the next few years. Imagine. Natalie 87 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: Bentendorff is her name. She was one of the writers 88 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: there at BuzzFeed to put the story together and went 89 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: through all Dr Fauci's emails there. So, uh, Natalie, welcome, 90 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: thank you for joining us here on the fifth hour. 91 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: And in your opinion here, what was the most interesting 92 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: thing that you uncovered from these thousands of emails from 93 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: Dr Fauci. Yeah, so I think that the thing that 94 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: I took away was really what we see is the 95 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: content of these emails. Right. There's a lot of interpretations 96 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: as to what some of these emails mean, what this 97 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: Faucci Um, what he's thinking at the beginning of this pandemic, 98 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: where is it going? But if we're looking at the 99 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: actual content and his words, I think the thing that 100 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: struck me the most was really this email where you know, 101 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: an ABC reporters asking him early on of last year 102 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: in you know, what do you think the death toll 103 00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: is going to be from COVID nineteen and he responds 104 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: um with the number that the report has given him, 105 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: which is five K, and says, you know what I 106 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: think that's way too high, um. And just reading that exchange, 107 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: you know, it's a short sentence in reply to the 108 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: reporter saying that he thinks that death told too high. 109 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: And we're here, right, we're well past five hundred thousand 110 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: deaths from COVID in this country. And I think it 111 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: really is a telling um thing about Fauci, which is 112 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: that you know, he's a human, right, he's the physician 113 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: who a lot of us have turned to in pandemic, 114 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: but he also didn't understand how much of a force 115 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: this virus was going to take our country by, um, 116 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:39,559 Speaker 1: And so I think a lot of those emails actually 117 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: showcase that. Right from January until June, I mean, we 118 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: didn't know how long this thing was gonna last, even 119 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: Sauci didn't, and he didn't know how how many lives 120 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: it would claim, and it's a really devastating thing to see, 121 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: but it's very enlightening to see how much we've learned 122 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: from that point. So I think that's what I really 123 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: took away from a lot of these emails. Yeah, I 124 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: love the fact that they were like regular people, and 125 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: you mentioned in that were like emailing, and he was 126 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: writing back to like regular people. I think it's amazing 127 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: to me because you know, most people are like, I'm 128 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: just gonna lead that, why would I write back? But 129 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: he hes a number of times right and right back exactly. Yeah. 130 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: I mean he was revered as a celebrity. I mean 131 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: we all know, we were all laughing right about just 132 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: kind of the the fourth of nature that it became 133 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: with Sauccia's um, you know, creating all these this merchandise 134 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: right around him with his name everywhere and these touchy 135 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: sucks and saucy doughnuts and his face on T shirts. Um. 136 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: And it's so interesting seeing actually in these emails, UM, 137 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: how uncomfortable it was for him to actually see all 138 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: of that, like the same and kind of this these 139 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: people being obsessed with him, um, and revering him to 140 00:07:55,320 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: this state of you know, he's just regarded so highly. Um, 141 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: he's not super comfortable with that. I mean, science and 142 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: health is what he specializes in, and he it just 143 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: blew up so quickly. UM. So it's really interesting seeing 144 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: his responses to a lot of those. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. 145 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: And and also now it kind of walked me through 146 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: you're part of the team there that you're you're talking 147 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: about tons of email. I mean, this is a lot 148 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: to go through, Like what's the process like, like how 149 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: you know, how did you guys work your way through 150 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: tons of data? He is is an amazing Yeah, it's 151 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: really cool. I like sharing kind of the process behind 152 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: UM stories, Right, the story behind the story is really 153 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 1: fun to talk about because there's so much that goes 154 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: into especially putting out a story of this size. Now, 155 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: as we stayed in in the article, UM, what made 156 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: this possible was for your request, right, So that's the 157 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: Freedom of Information Act, and that actually allows us to 158 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: get documents from government agencies. Right, It's legal to put 159 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: in those requests and basically the government agency is supposed 160 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: to turn those over. Now, we sent these in obviously 161 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: to the National Institute of Helps UM, and we were 162 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: able to obtain um plus pages of these emails. And 163 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: this request was one that Jason put in. This was 164 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: actually probably UM starting in March and then you know 165 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: went into the summer. But the way that works is, 166 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: you know what we do to actually speed up the 167 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: process because obviously to get all of these emails is 168 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: a really long process. And sometimes what happens is, you know, 169 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: very often actually the government agency won't respond or they'll 170 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: just kind of say, hey, this is too much to 171 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: get back to you. And so BuzzFeed actually ended up 172 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: biling a lawsuit UM. And really all that does is 173 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: just speed up the process, right because they have to 174 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: get these We had documents to us a little bit 175 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: quicker UM, and so what we did is we asked 176 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: for all emails text sent and received by Dr Fauci 177 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: mentioning or referring to COVID nineteen coronavirus, and any and 178 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: all internal studies on COVID. So that was our specific request, 179 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: and we had to send in multiple UM to just 180 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: really keep expanding the time period. So that's really how 181 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: we got these documents. And then kind of the last 182 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: five months is what Jason and I have been working on, 183 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: which is the article itself of how do we really 184 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: write an article that is going to sum up what 185 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: these UM documents are saying? Right, so not all people 186 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: are going to see these documents and read all three thousand, 187 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: two hundred pages of these, but we want to pull 188 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: out what's the important parts of these and what are 189 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: the things that people really need to know? What are 190 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: we learning there's no crazy smoking guns, in here, Right, 191 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: it's really what we're seeing from a broader you know, 192 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: stepping back, what is Fauci's communication style and what were 193 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: some of the things of the points of discussion from 194 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: early on in the pants mix. So that was kind 195 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: of the process of how we got this thing out there. Yeah, 196 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure you've seen the reaction here and 197 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: it's um some of these I mean it's been picked 198 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,719 Speaker 1: apart some of the emails and and right not in Uh, 199 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: what is your take here on the the reaction As 200 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: everything in the country, it's divided on party lines, right, 201 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: people have strong opinions on each side. Something this makes 202 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 1: Dr Facci, as you said, look more human. Other people 203 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: think that we know, wait a minute, he was saying 204 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: one thing privately and there was something else publicly. So right, right, Yeah, 205 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: it's it's a good thing you discussed. And something you 206 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: know that we did at BuzzFeed is we said, you 207 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: know what, it's important for us to release all of 208 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: these documents. And that's something that differs from the article 209 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: that the Washington Post wrote. Right, they obtained um eight 210 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: hundred pages of these emails, and we had, you know, 211 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: several thousand of them, and we actually released all of 212 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: them instead of kind of summing them up and releasing 213 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: a few of the ones that we mentioned like the 214 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: post did. Obviously, what comes with that is people create 215 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 1: their own interpretations of what these emails say, right, without 216 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: actually maybe reading all of the pages or getting all 217 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: of the contact. And so that's the thing that comes 218 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: along with releasing this entire batch to the public, for 219 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: them to really just do what they will with them. UM. 220 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,599 Speaker 1: And so you know, the things that we've heard a 221 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: lot about UM and seen response wise is a lot 222 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: of stuff about the email where Fauci is referring to 223 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: masks um not really being effective, right, and this is 224 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: in back in February UM, and so people have really 225 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: grabbed onto that and said, you know, this is proof 226 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: that you know this masks are helping or fout she 227 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 1: knew and kind of these very um like making these 228 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: statements that that's you know, generalizing um what thought she 229 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: was thinking about that? But to be frank, I think 230 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: that that shows what I was stating earlier, which is 231 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: that we've really grown scientifically of what we know about 232 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: this virus, and it's just showing that you know, Facci 233 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: doesn't know everything about this virus. No physician in the 234 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: world knows everything about um COVID nineteen and how it 235 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: overtakes the human body and what works and what didn't. 236 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: And this was you know, before the who actually declared 237 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen pandemic. We did not know at this time 238 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: that people needed to wear masks for this airborne virus. 239 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: So that's an example of something that you know, people 240 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: are grasping onto us this could mean this, or this 241 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: could mean that. But I think as a as a 242 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: journalist's important for us, and when we were reading these 243 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: emails is you know, it's not something that we can 244 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: do where we can read these emails and actually interpret 245 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: and guess you know what Sauchie meant? Well, what was 246 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: STOUCHI like really saying like, let's read between the line. 247 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: You can't do that as a journalist when you're reading 248 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: these documents. You have to take it up face value, 249 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: and then you have to look at the bigger picture. 250 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: And so I think that's what gets really dangerous is 251 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: when people start making these assumptions and bigger interpretations onto 252 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: what found she could have meant, or what this means, 253 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 1: when it's really going beyond the words on the page. Yeah, 254 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: and then I saw his quote the other day here 255 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 1: he said he did say his emails he thought were 256 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: taken out of context there and he kind of like dismissed. 257 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: The reaction was just kind of like what you're saying, right, 258 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: But it really is that's like, that's like a jury 259 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: trial right now. I mean, that's one of the things 260 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: about the court system. You know, people look at the 261 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: evidence and they have different opinions on the evidence, and 262 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: so that's that's where we are right now. Uh, totally 263 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: with this. And I also saw I saw the White 264 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: House they said they did not want to comment. What 265 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: was your reaction to that they wouldn't comment on your story? Yeah, 266 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: I mean I think that there's you know, one of 267 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: the big things that we had in our article was 268 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: addressing the political pressure right that fell onto Sauci. And 269 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: obviously that expands because now we're in a different um 270 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: administration that's in the White House than was when we 271 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: were actually filing these Foyer requests and reading through these documents, UM, 272 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: and so it's really interesting to see the responses. I 273 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: don't see any of these kind of you know, UM 274 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: Fauci didn't comment on our story. Also, UM for the record, 275 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: and you know, I don't see that necessarily as a 276 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: good or bad thing when I'm reporting on this stuff, right, 277 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: So my job, um, and Jason's job is really to 278 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: obtain these documents and see, you know, whoever we are 279 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: mentioning or getting in touch with as a source for 280 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: the article is to just see, you know, reach out 281 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: to them, Hey, we have your name in here. You know, 282 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: we wanted to know if you'd like to comment, would 283 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: you like to add anything? Um? And obviously the White 284 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: House is mentioned in their fauci has mentioned in there. 285 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: Other people who have written emails to Faucier mentioned, and 286 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: so it's important for us to reach out to those 287 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: people and ask for comment. I think that information is important, 288 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: whether they comment or not. And I can't be the 289 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: judge of what that means or what that says. But um, 290 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: it's important for the public to know that the White 291 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: House didn't have anything to add. Thought she didn't have 292 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: anything he wanted to add to our story. UM. And 293 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: that you know, people will do with what they will. Natalie, 294 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned him a couple of times, but Jason, Jason Leopold, 295 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: he's obviously the colleague of yours. Can you give us, 296 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: and for those that don't follow BuzzFeed, can you give 297 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: us a little bit of background on Jason and what 298 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: he actually does for the company. Yeah. So Jason Um 299 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: has been a great mentor to me. Actually, So he is, 300 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: you know, someone who I've learned a lot about UM 301 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: document reporting and really what Foyer requests are UM. And 302 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: he is the senior investigative reporter for BuzzFeed News and 303 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: he was previously at Al Jazeera and Vice News as well. UM. 304 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: And he did some really fantastic work with the Finson 305 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: Files that came out a few years ago. And so 306 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: his beat really is he is a fantastic reporter when 307 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: it comes to filing Foyer quests and really getting into 308 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: the nitty gritty when it comes to the government and 309 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: getting those documents and publishing them. That is his UM 310 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: strong suit and what he's really fantastic at. And so 311 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: he you know, was a two thousand eighteen Pulitzer Prize 312 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: winner UM and he was the recipient of the IRA 313 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: two sixteen fl I Award UM. And he's gotten you know, 314 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: many many awards for his reporting and this deep investigative work. 315 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: Because it's time consuming stuff UM to read through documents 316 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: and to put these stories together. But he's been a 317 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: fantastic person to learn from. UM. I'm more of an 318 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: early career reporter and who's really interested in investigative work. 319 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: And I've just been blown away and really impressed with 320 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: um how much I've learned on this project, especially so Yeah, 321 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: Jason's great. The gravity involved in this is obviously one 322 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: for a generation and generations UM. I think Ben and 323 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: I have talked about this at good length in the past, 324 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: just because profession were in UM we oddly enough how 325 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: to bear down when sports weren't going on for a 326 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: long period of time. And I think the biggest thing, 327 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: and they're not just for us, but I think Americans 328 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: and a lot of people across the world as a whole, 329 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: like we're looking for not only information but now accountability, 330 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: and so looking at Foucci's emails and the correspondence that 331 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: he's had with a lot of people, I mean, the 332 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: mask issues is one thing, but the other thing is 333 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: just the relationship with Foucci, the Wuhan Lab and the Chinese. 334 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: And you know, oftentimes you're taught, even when you're young. 335 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: If you don't know the answer to a question, typically 336 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: the answer is always money and and so that is 337 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: the biggest thing for for me, and what you and 338 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: Jason are doing right now is that you're connecting a 339 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 1: lot of different dots. So where does this lead or 340 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: where do you feel like this is leading? And have 341 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: you looked under the I guess the Christmas tree that 342 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: is the the Chinese government because obviously there's a lot 343 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 1: of things underneath that thing. Yeah, I think that you 344 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: know again what I said about just like what we 345 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: were able to extract from these right, because this is 346 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: something that Jason and I were thinking about the whole 347 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,959 Speaker 1: time while reading through these documents, is what's the bigger 348 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: picture here and what are we really grasping from his 349 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: correspondence thouts correspondence with foreign officials. I mean, it's really impressive, Um, 350 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: how many emails there are from you know, different health 351 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: authorities and physicians all around the world who thought she 352 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: has been able to make connections with Um with his 353 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: work from the AIDS crisis in the nineties and working 354 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: through different epidemics, right and just building this network of 355 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: physicians all around the world. Right, So we saw this 356 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: correspondence and specifically with some of those Chinese health officials too, 357 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: and so I think that you know, one of the 358 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: emails that people are really circulating is one from April 359 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: eighteen in and that was UM from Dr Peter Dazac 360 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: and that was UM, you know someone who got he 361 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: made very he was acquaintances with, right, And so they 362 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: actually were corresponding about UM the origins. Right. This is 363 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: obviously something that they discussed early on in UM. But 364 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: I think people have really pulled that part of it 365 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: and saying you know, UM, where Dr Dazak says, from 366 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: my perspective, your comments are brave and coming from your 367 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: trusted voice, will help disturb the myths being spun around 368 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: the viruses origins and so UM. I think the thing 369 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: that you know is on the top of all of 370 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: our minds is what was covered up, right, like where 371 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: did this virus come from? UM? Was it from a lab? 372 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: And I think that these emails actually don't give as 373 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: much of you know, UM, as many ants or as 374 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: we might hope to that question about where the virus 375 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: came from if it came from a lab. UM. It 376 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: really is just showing that this was a discussion that 377 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: was happening among health officials very early on in maybe 378 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: even you know, before many people had come up with 379 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: different conspiracies at this point, right. So I think that 380 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: for me, like Jason and I really didn't spend a 381 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: lot of time looking into you know, what do these 382 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: emails confirm, rather than what are the discussions that were happening. 383 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: I don't think that there's anything that can be gleaned 384 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: from that. Um. But as you mentioned, I mean, like 385 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: really Sauci has addressed that and said that, you know, 386 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: he feels his emails are being taken out of context 387 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: and um, that there's a lot being pulled out and 388 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: kind of words put in his mouth from words that 389 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: weren't said. And so I think that, you know, out 390 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: of fairness and out of you know, the ethical practices 391 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: of journalism, we really can't say anything definitively about the 392 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: viruses origins and if the emails really say anything about them. 393 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: Be sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller 394 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific. Be 395 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show 396 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: weekdays at two am eastern eleven pm Pacific on Fox 397 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. Yeah, I 398 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: think the biggest thing though, and something like this is 399 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: that your job and that kind of capacity, especially since 400 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: it is so unique, is you have to ask those 401 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: questions and not be afraid of challenge. And absolutely, yeah, 402 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: the relationships that Dr fouch has had throughout the years, Uh, 403 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: what those relationships comes power and influence And from what 404 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: you guys have actually unfolded with these emails in the 405 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: f O I A that you've had Mark Zuckerberg come 406 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: into play. And I find that fascinating because a Washington 407 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: Post article was recently edited that had Senator Tom Cotton 408 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: talking about the origin of the coronavirus and prior to 409 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: that it was a conspiracy theory. Now it's just an alleged, 410 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: you know, hypothesis. But Zuckerberg comes into play, and he's 411 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: got things that are tied into the political atmosphere, voting wise, 412 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: and now this and so we've seen doctors, we've seen 413 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: people that have had information squash on Instagram and on Facebook. 414 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: And so I guess my question comes down to this, 415 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: are you and Jason looking into the relationships that Dr 416 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: Fauci has from these email correspondence. That's a great question. 417 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: And honestly, absolutely, because you know something that's important is 418 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: that this is UM an ongoing investigation. Right, We're gonna 419 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: keep getting more documents, and we're gonna keep reading these 420 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: documents UM. You know the foyer requesting basically the way 421 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: it UM works as that because we put in so 422 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: many requests, right, we'll still get some of these emails 423 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: trickling in from later and later, or maybe ones that 424 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: were miss that will just be getting in the mail. 425 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, we're going to keep investigating that. And for 426 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: the question about you know, the relationships that Dr Duchy 427 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: has with these people, is it is really important UM 428 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: for our reporting because you know, as much as I'm like, 429 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: you know, we need to take these emails at face 430 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,479 Speaker 1: value and really look at that. It does kind of 431 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 1: feel like being a detective right when you're doing this 432 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: kind of work, because you know what Stout she's saying 433 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: to a regular person who is just asking, you know, 434 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 1: a health question about how does having COVID affect UM? 435 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: You know, my grandmother or my grandfather or someone who 436 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: is a celebrity, who's who's saying, how can I use 437 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: my platform to UM spread information about COVID and help 438 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: people get to better resources. You know, we do have 439 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: to evaluate those relationships and who's reaching out to him, 440 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: who is stoutily choosing to respond to, who's the choosing 441 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: to ignore are and who is he getting really familiar with? UM? 442 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: So those are That's a great question because that's absolutely 443 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 1: something that like we have to consider, is how is 444 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: Sauchi relating to these people and who is he um 445 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: what tone is he using with each of these individuals 446 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: because of their position? And so I think that's something 447 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: that we're just continuing to investigate and something that people, 448 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: you know, members of the public, you and I can 449 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: just look at these emails and glean for ourselves too, 450 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: is um You know, it's so easy to do a 451 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: Google search of anyone's name and be like, are they 452 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: in the health community? Are they kind of just a 453 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 1: regular person who is just asking for health advice, who's 454 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: worried about their family, who's maybe harassing Dr Fauci too 455 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: because of political pressure, Right, So those relationships are essential 456 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: to understanding UM facties communication style as a whole totally. Yeah. 457 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: And Natalie, when you were going through the emails there, 458 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 1: and you know how much I do see some things redacted? 459 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: I mean how much basically how much of that stuff 460 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: was covered up where you couldn't read it. I know 461 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: the email addresses obviously were, but there's there's some of 462 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: these emails I'm looking at were like large chunks of 463 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: them are not not available. So one of the sensitive 464 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: stuff was not allowed for you to to view. That's 465 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: a good question. I actually don't know like the percentage 466 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: of it. But basically how FOIA work is that there 467 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: are exemptions from FOIA and what that means is there 468 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: are things that are redacted from government documents. If it 469 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: has something to do with um national security especially that's 470 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: a big one. So if there's something in the government document, right, 471 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 1: not everything can be declassified because there can actually be 472 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: something that poses either a national security risk or there's 473 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: just you know, more stricter privacy around people's private information, 474 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: right That can be sometimes other health information, which is 475 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: probably very pertinent in some of these emails, right because 476 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: people are talking about their own health talking about other 477 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: people's health around COVID, So that could be a big 478 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: reason things are redacted. We published the emails as we 479 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: saw them, so we didn't take anything out. You know, 480 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 1: the emails that are redacted. We didn't get to see 481 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: people's emails. Um, you know, so you're looking at the 482 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: emails that Jason and I saw just as they are. Um. 483 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: So there are different reasons why things are redacted. So 484 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: that's something that Jason and I really have to go 485 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: through and see. Um. But it's impossible to guess, right, 486 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: It's impossible to guess what's behind that black box. Um, 487 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: And we just kind of have to work around it. 488 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: It's definitely definitely like you know, doing a puzzle, because 489 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: you just gotta work with what you have, the words 490 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 1: that are on the page. Um. But yeah, those are 491 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: some different reasons as to why things are redacted, but 492 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: usually it has it falls under, you know, one of 493 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 1: those few categories. And Natalie, what's the approach that you 494 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: and Jason have and going on on something like this, 495 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: Because the reality is is that doesn't matter the publication. 496 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: You know, BuzzFeed and has not been immune to this, 497 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: But it doesn't matter the publication, you're going to take 498 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: fire from one side of the political aisle or the 499 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: there right, how do you try to be not only 500 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: as transparent but as as open ended as possible when 501 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: it comes to this research and information? Yeah, yeah, that's 502 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: something we we talked about a lot from the beginning, 503 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 1: what Jason really was advising me to do is just 504 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: read through these documents because obviously there's thousands of pages 505 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: of them, and just get familiar with them. You know. 506 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: He'd tell me to, you know, read through as many 507 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: as I could for a week, take notes, take screenshots 508 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: of ones that were pretty outstanding or things that I 509 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: wanted to save and save for later, to go back 510 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: to UM, and then just take a break, step back 511 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: from them, and then go back in right. And so 512 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: basically are for the first few months that we were 513 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: working on the actual article, we were just reading these 514 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: documents and just getting really familiar with the content. UM. 515 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: We would identify people over and over again, like maybe 516 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: some of Guti's team members, his staffers who he was 517 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: emailing a lot more frequently. UM. So that was the 518 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: first step of it, and that was our approach UM. 519 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: And so I think that helped set up the rest 520 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: of the process and kind of my mindset about reporting, 521 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: because I was really thinking, you know, I'm taking this 522 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: UM kind of just being as unbiased as I could, 523 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: and just being really open to whatever these emails were 524 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: going to hold. You know, obviously, when you get this staff, 525 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: you get really excited of these documents where you're like, man, 526 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: I really hope something in here is like juicy and 527 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: good and we're just gonna like find a huge secret, right. 528 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: But that's not always the case, UM, with doing document reporting. UM, 529 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: A lot of these emails are pretty standard, pretty boring, 530 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, just back and forth administrative stuff. UM. And 531 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: so I think that kind of put me in the 532 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: mindset of just getting used to pouch to style UM. 533 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: And I felt like it was once I got in 534 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: that mindset, it was easy to take away this kind 535 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: of like if there was any sort of political bias, UM, 536 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: because ultimately my number one job is to just report 537 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: what is in these emails, would do it as accurately 538 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: as possible, UM, and in an unbiased way, but also 539 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: be really frank and transparent with UM, my audience and 540 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: the people who were writing this for who want to 541 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: know more about Faucci as a person. UM, Be frank 542 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: about his relationship with the Trump administration, that it was 543 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: tents at times, and that they did clash, right, So 544 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: we do have to be, um, you know, really transparent 545 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: and honest around those very real relationships and the political 546 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: relationships around UM. You know, Sauci and his community and 547 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: really what influenced a lot of that. So, um, it's 548 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: really taking that into consideration. But I think when it 549 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: comes down to it, me and Jason were really prioritizing 550 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: this idea of just being open to whatever we saw 551 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: in these emails and just reading it as if we were, 552 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, someone just reading both feed News, not as 553 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: an editor or not as a reporter. What would we 554 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: find interesting that we'd want to share with other people. 555 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: So that's kind of the approach we took. Yeah, well, 556 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: it's a great story. Natalie can congratulation. I know you're young, 557 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: you're young reporter, your USC Trojan, I understand and all that. 558 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: So is this is this your future you? I'm sure 559 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: we'll hear from you many more times over there. Do 560 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: you want to be a this is this what you 561 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: would like to do? If we would go twenty years 562 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: from now looking back at your career as a journalist 563 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: is twenty as far away. I have been into journalism 564 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: since I was fourteen years old, um, and I can 565 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: definitely see myself sticking on this path. I mean, investigative 566 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: journalism gives you a rush like nothing else, at least 567 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: that's how I feel and this has definitely been the 568 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: biggest story I've worked on, and so it's really fantastic 569 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: to see, um, kind of what this might be like, right, 570 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: and get the exposure to what doing political reporting on 571 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: a national scale like this looks like. Um, so you 572 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: might see a couple more pieces for me, I think 573 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,239 Speaker 1: in this realm. So um yeah, no, I really appreciate it, 574 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: and that you took the time to read through our 575 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: piece and wanted to get this, you know, piece out 576 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: to your listeners as well. I'm so excited. That's great, 577 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: that's I'm excited. I'm looking forward to seeing what you 578 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: guys you do next in particular, So thanks for coming 579 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: on you. Be sure to catch live editions of The 580 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: Ben Maller Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific. 581 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: Be sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller 582 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific on 583 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app.