WEBVTT - Democracy In Decline 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.560 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to woga F Daily with 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:18.720 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording live from our podstream 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.840 studios in Times Square. You know, today, folks, I am 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.920 going to have an interview with a new person to 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:31.640 woke F Daily, for Nita Toulson. And if you've been 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:37.640 watching these congressional hearings on voting rights, you have seen 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:41.360 her now multiple times on Capitol Hill. She's a professor 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:45.360 at the University of California and she's been working on 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:51.000 voting rights her entire career. What got me to ask 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.640 for Nita to join woke F was an interaction, an 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:58.640 exchange actually, that she had with Senator Ted Cruz, which 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:01.760 you may have seen because I retweeted the clip and 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.640 the clip went viral, where he asked her directly, do 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:10.000 you think that the Texas voting rights law is racist? 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.720 And she responded, yes, I do, and then went on 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:19.000 to express why she feels like the voting rights laws 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:24.680 suppressions targeting of people of color is in fact racist, 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:29.800 and how race neutral laws have been a thing since 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.720 reconstruction in this country. It is how for one hundred 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:38.680 years black people had absolutely no protection in this country right, 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.920 And you know I will talk to her about whether 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:47.960 or not she thinks that our democracy can survive, this 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.840 can survive in action by Democrats right now, because, folks, 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:55.400 I got to tell you that I have reached my 0:01:55.680 --> 0:02:00.800 breaking point with this in current administration, with this Congress, 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:03.680 and where we are headed in twenty twenty two, people 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:07.800 are so fucking concerned with keeping their jobs, as in 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.720 my favorite line in The American President, that they are 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:14.799 forgetting to actually do their fucking jobs. Right. You have 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:17.680 one job as an elected official, and it is to 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:21.960 make sure that you uphold our constitution. It is to 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.720 make sure that all Americans, not just some, not just 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.560 the rich, right, not just the top one percent, not 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:33.239 just white folks, have the ability to live a full 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.800 and complete life, right that are able to pursue their 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:42.160 form of happiness. Right that are able to all be protected, 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.320 to be able to participate as full and complete citizens 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:49.359 and our fucking democracy. And they are failing, and this 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:54.520 fucking administration is failing right now. And you know I 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.720 can tell you that I have reached a point right 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.040 where yet you can say to me, Danielle Well, the 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.880 Biden administration, they've only been in power for nine months, 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:07.880 and you know, we need to give them more time. 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:09.160 And do you know what I'm going to say to that, 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:12.480 we don't have any more fucking time to give. Right 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.040 in but a few handful of months, the calendar year 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.120 changes and we go into twenty twenty two, and at 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.720 the beginning of January, you are going to see a 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:28.919 blitz of fucking campaigns and ads and all of these things, 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:34.240 because within several months we will have midterm elections. And 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.640 right now, if you pay attention to polls, which you know, 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.200 if you listen to me regularly, you know that I 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.400 don't give a fuck about polls because I think that 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:45.680 they are as good as shaking a magic eight ball 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.720 and kind of seeing what happens. But the reality is 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.360 that in a couple of months we have a consequential 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:56.480 midterm election that I would argue is even more consequential 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:02.800 than that of twenty eighteen, because when Republicans get power again, 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.960 not if, but when they get power again, they are 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:10.200 not letting it go. They are going to be rabid, 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.840 fucking pit bolls with a bone, and they won't let 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.400 it go. They will change every single fucking rule in 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.840 the Senate, in the House to make sure that Democrats 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.840 never hold that gavel again. And then what Democrats will 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:27.320 do is get on television and get on radio, and 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.560 get on podcasts and wine and bitch about what Republicans 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.080 are doing to this country. And I will turn around 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:37.719 and want to verbally bitch slap every single fucking one 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.720 of them who has sat around and thought that, you know, 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:44.280 Republicans who are gonna come around. I will go directly 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.200 to the Joe Mansions and the Kursten Cinemas and say, 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:51.279 you now will be forever remembered and engraved in the 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.400 minds and the history books of this country as the 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:59.640 two people that allowed our democracy to fucking fall. This week, 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:05.000 right now, you have Kirsten Cinema, not at the White House, 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:07.960 right because this is how much power this bitch has 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.320 not at the White House, but as White House staff 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.240 has decided to go to her in the Senate to 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.560 talk about the reconciliation bill, to go to her and 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.839 beg her to do what is right for this fucking country. 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.880 How does that look to me? It looks like Joe 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.320 Biden doesn't know what the fuck he's doing, and it 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:30.600 certainly doesn't look like he has the strength and the 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.840 mustard and the fortitude to get shit done that he 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:36.440 told the American people he was going to deliver on 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.919 day one. Now, I understand that there is a big, 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.400 big gap between the campaign promises that folks make on 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.080 the trail and then what it comes to get done 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.480 in order to get things executed into reality. I know 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.000 that the gap is big. But here is a thing 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.960 you don't get any more time. You knew the urgency 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.640 of the moment when you were campaigning in twenty twenty, 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:02.800 as you were campaigning against an open white supremacist right, 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:06.600 an open fucking fascist. You knew, good god damn well 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.480 that the Republican Party wasn't just under the spell of 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.120 Donald Trump. No, No, Donald Trump gave them permission to 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:16.600 take their hoods off and be exactly who they have 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.200 always wanted to be. You know what I saw this 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.760 week that also turned my goddamn stomach, which was a 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:28.960 New York Times article do democrats will democrats muster the 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:32.279 same amount of courage as Liz Cheney ding ding ding 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:36.920 New York Times, Liz Cheney doesn't have any fucking courage. 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:41.960 It doesn't take courage a decade after your gay sister 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.400 gets married and has kids to come out on sixty 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:49.320 minutes and now decide that, oh, you were totally wrong 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.560 about same sex marriage. You know, six years after the 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:56.400 Supreme Court passed same sex marriage in this country and 0:06:56.520 --> 0:07:00.240 a decade after her own fucking father, Darth Vader, came 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.560 out in support of same sex marriage. Right, you don't 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.880 get a trophy for that. You also don't get a 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.040 trophy for recognizing reality and the fact that Donald Trump 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:14.760 did indeed lose the twenty twenty election. It is not 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:19.480 courage to come out and acknowledge the truth, then, my god, 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:21.840 I must have so much courage to come out every 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:26.160 day and acknowledge that gravity fucking exists. I am so 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:32.000 tired right of turning these fucking people into heroes and 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:36.920 heroines and martyrs for acknowledging reality. That is how far 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:41.160 the goddamn bar has fallen. You know, Joe Mansion and 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.960 Kursten Cinema, they might as well be the president and 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.560 the vice president of the United States right now with 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.600 the amount of fucking power that they're wielding, Which is 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.840 why to me, it was important to bring Professor Fernita 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.600 Tulsin on to talk about the fact that, yeah, you know, 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.640 what Congress really does have power. You know, there are 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:04.560 things that Congress can be doing right, because by virtue 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.080 of the Constitution, you have the power to get things done. 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.560 You are a coequal branch of governments. And yet they 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:15.120 are walking around and asking for fucking permission or expecting 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:21.920 Republicans to turn into what exactly moral bound patriots. I 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:25.160 don't know how many goddamn times that people have to 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:29.000 show you who they are for you to believe who 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:35.440 they are. Right, not one god damn Republican voted in 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:39.320 the House of Representatives to pass the John Lewis Voting 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:44.000 Rights Act. Many of those fucking disgusting human beings worked 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:48.959 alongside John Lewis, listened to his stories of being beaten 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:53.160 and jailed for the right to vote. They worked alongside 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:57.160 this man for decades, and upon his death, he had 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.080 one ask, which was to get this done. And those 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:04.360 Republicans spit in his face and spit in the face 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:08.440 of every goddamn American in this country, regardless of party, 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.000 when they decided to vote against our democracy. So tell 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:17.479 me again what we are waiting for here. I don't 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:22.680 understand how much more Democrats need to see before you 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:26.600 look fucking dumb, and you recognize how dumb you look 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.960 to the American people. You want to go out now 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.959 and campaign on what exactly because you haven't done dick 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:37.959 and frankly, if you thought that you were going to 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:42.040 be campaigning on the vaccine rollout alone, well, we've reached 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:46.120 our what our cliff right now in terms of how 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.240 many Americans are actually going to get vaccinated? And now 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.840 it's private industry that is doing more work, more heavy 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:57.240 lifting by having their mandates that this administration doesn't want 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.880 to do. Why, oh, we don't have the power to 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.160 do it. It's funny to me that when Democrats are 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:05.679 in control, they want to talk about what power they 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.000 don't have, but when Republicans are in control, all we 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:13.720 feel is the weight of their fucking foot on our necks. Right, 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:18.640 Mitch McConnell didn't have the power to appoint three Supreme 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:22.960 Court justices and stall the appointment of Merritt Garland, but 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.360 he did it. And guess what, and he did so 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:30.160 unfucking opposed. Right. No one decided to sue Mitch McConnell. 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.440 No one decided to bring this to federal court in 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.560 order to get action done. Barack Obama didn't decide to 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.520 do a recess appointment and get things done because he 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:42.760 had the right. No, because Democrats are too fucking concerned 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:47.040 with keeping every goddamn person happy, as opposed to actually 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.600 doing what needs to be done and understanding that you're 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.559 not going to keep everyone happy, that everyone isn't going 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.360 to like you, and being liked isn't your fucking job. 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.720 I don't need a comforter in chief. I need to 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:03.600 commander in chief, and right now, with Joe Biden, we 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:08.560 don't really have either. Coming up next, folks, is my 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:13.520 interview with Professor Fernita Tulson. I'm very excited to have 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.559 this conversation with regard to voting rights and whether or 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.800 not she thinks our democracy is going to survive. That 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:26.800 is coming up next, folks. I am so happy to 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.880 welcome to woke af Fernia Tulson, who is the Vice 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:33.640 Dean for Faculty and Academic Affairs and Professor of Law 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:37.880 at University of Southern California Gold School of Law. Thank 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.319 you so much for making the time to join woke 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:44.320 a F. We are in one of the most i 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:49.760 would say arguably the most precarious times for our democracy, 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:54.120 and our democracy hinges on our ability to have free 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:58.760 and fair elections, and as we have seen since the 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.000 twenty twenty election and the spreading of the Big Lie, 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:06.520 we have witnessed a barrage of over three hundred plus 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:12.920 voting suppression laws that have happened across the country. Texas, however, 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.040 Texas is like hold my beer to every other state 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.000 so that they can show up as the absolute worst. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:25.000 Which is why you were at the Senate testifying about 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:28.439 the Texas law. You were asked, very clearly, is a 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.839 Texas law racist? I mean, I screamed that my television 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:34.320 and I said, hell, yes it is. I don't know. 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.440 You have a lot more decorum than I do, so 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:43.840 please recount for woke ap audience. You know your answer 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:48.640 to that question. Is the Texas voter restriction voter suppression 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:53.400 law racist? In my opinion, it is, and importantly it's 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.440 not just me right. One of the points I made 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.920 in the hearing is that a fellow district court had 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.240 found that the law had been enacted with discrimine tory 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:04.319 intent and discriminatory effect, and so Texas basically litigated the 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.440 law of the course of the decade, and then they 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.280 passed a new version in order to cleanse the law 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:13.760 of the discriminatory effect that it had on minority populations. 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:17.200 And so they exchange with Senator Crews. I think he 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:21.040 was a little surprised, but you know, arguably the fact 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:24.080 that Texas consistently litigates its election law, so not just 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.840 the voter ID law, it's redistricting plans they litigate. So 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.079 we have redistrict in every ten years, and Texas pretty 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.040 much spends the bulk of the decade litigating their redistricting 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.480 plans against allegations that the plan was adopted with racially 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:39.880 discriminatory intend in an effect. And this has been true 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.480 for pretty much the last two decades. And so Texas 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.880 their record on this is just really awful. If you 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.440 were sitting in if you were sitting not just in 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:52.960 the chair testifying, but sitting in a chair with the 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:57.720 direct ability to enforce the power that democrats have right now, 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.360 what should what can they be doing? I saw? I mean, 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.520 because here's the thing, the filibuster. We have two people 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.240 that are the issue, right. We have Kirsten Cinema and 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.560 Joe Manchin who believe in this racist relic right and 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.080 and and want to believe that, Well, what if we 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.000 get rid of it, how will Republicans act down the road? 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.520 And I'm like, I don't think you understand that we're 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.240 we are at the end of the road, Like this 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:25.440 is it? There is no They're like, we're at the 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:29.000 cliff right now for our democracy. And what is it 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:33.120 that Democrats can do to fortify in their minds the 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.360 sense of urgency that I swear that everyone else seems 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.080 to have. But these two members of the Senate, that's 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.440 say that they're supposedly Democrats. So I think part of 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:47.040 the problem is American exceptionalism, right, Like, even that's that 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.880 is that is the that is the whole problem. But please, 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:57.600 even Democrats believe that, right, Democrats believe that America is exceptional. Um. 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:01.600 But one thing that is true among democracies generally is 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.480 that they don't last at long. And so you know, 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.640 I'm not alarmist generally, and you know, I believe in 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:09.960 this country and this is why I do this work. 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.600 I want us to get over this. But there's no 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:16.000 guarantee that will survive this. Right, our democracy is over 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.600 two centuries old now, and unless it's something that you're 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:20.600 willing to fight for it could very well go away. 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.320 There's nothing exceptional about America in that sense, then that 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.560 we that somehow our democracy is so revered that it 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.200 could survive anything that is not true. This is why 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.400 consequences for January sixth is very important, because if we 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.480 don't have consequences for you know, political elites who are 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.120 pushing this big lie and who you know, I mean, 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.600 the whole notion of Trump running for reelection again in 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.480 twenty twenty four is just insane, right, But that is 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.000 entirely possible because our system has become one in which 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.240 bad actors are not punished for their behavior and their 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:54.040 actions are corrosive to democracy. And because of that, we 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.360 might not survive this. But until people except that that 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:03.120 is a possibility, right, then it's entirely likely that you know, 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.760 Democrats will just kind of sit and wait and expect 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.080 Republicans to come around. Let me make one other point, 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:14.400 because I actually think the historical point is important. After 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:18.520 reconstruction in this country, for almost a century, black people 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:20.840 didn't have any voting rights, they didn't have any political power. 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.120 I was telling my children, and I promised, they're young. 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.200 I don't like scare them, but you know, it was 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.560 really common for you know, black people to go missing 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.240 and just never be heard from again because they had 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.240 no protections. They have no way, they had no way 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.840 of petitioning the government for protection, they had no protection 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:38.680 from the police anything. Right, It was just it was 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:44.120 a horrible state of affairs. But one of the important 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:45.960 things that people fail to realize, but I think that 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.560 they kind of realized in the forties, fifties and sixties, 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.240 is that we're all in this together. Right. You can't 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.160 have you know, minority communities of any strife who feel 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.120 like second class citizens in this country and think that 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.920 people that sort of view themselves as being at the 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.679 top tier can enjoy their rights too. It's only a 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.480 matter of time before people in the majority find themselves 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:09.920 as a part of the minority, right, So it's really 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.520 important to protect rights for all people. So just because 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.520 minority voting rights are under assault right now does mean 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.200 does not mean that people in the majority are protected either. 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:21.960 We are literally all in this together, and if we 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.400 don't fight for it collectively, it will go away. Until 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.000 the Democrats realize that, then they're just going to sit 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.159 there and wait for a party who is essentially a 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.960 minority party and will do anything to preserve their power. 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.080 They're gonna wait for them to come around when they 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.959 have no incentive to come around, you know. And the 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:43.399 reality is that, you know, after a certain point, you 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.720 reach a certain point where the top can only squeeze 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.600 people so much before they push back. I mean, you 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:54.199 can only push people down so much and assume that 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.760 the reaction is just going to be like, okay, boss, 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.680 whatever you say, Boss, That's what I'm gonna do. Right, 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:04.680 four people get into the streets before there is revolutionary action, right, 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.960 that is taken because I don't see I think that 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.679 what troubles me now. And I want to ask you, 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:14.360 because you are a professor of law. You are guiding 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:16.919 the next generation of people that are supposed to, you know, 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:22.119 hopefully in some way, shape or form, safeguard right our constitution, 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:27.679 safeguard our laws. But what I've realized over you know, desperately, 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.359 over the past four year, the four years under Trump, 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.639 is what I thought. And this is I'm an educated person, 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.600 you know, undergrad graduate school, worked on the hill. What 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:42.600 I thought were secure laws in this country. I recognize 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:47.760 under Trump we're just suggestions, We're just handshake deals that 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.399 we're kind of done in back rooms, whether you're gonna 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.680 I thought presidents presidential candid I thought they they were 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.760 required to provide their taxes. I thought that you were 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.399 required to let go of your businesses or put them 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:01.760 in a trust that you we would know that you're 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.480 working on behalf of the American people. I didn't realize 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.240 that that was just oh everything. I realized that Trump, 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:11.080 it's just a political norm And so I mean, what 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:15.240 opportunities if any, with this very lackluster and very spineless 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.800 Democratic party that we are witnessing right now, if we 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:24.640 had a party with strength and backbone and fortitude, what 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:29.280 should they be doing to move these political norms that 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:33.280 were very easily broken? Right, No one is going to jail. No, 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.280 there's no accountability whatsoever for the things that have been 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:40.679 done to turn them from political norms to actual laws. Like, 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:45.520 what power, if any, does the legislative body have in 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:49.080 order to in order to make that happen? They have 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:53.320 to go all the way, right. I think the problem 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.520 is moderation. They're trying to figure out some way to 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:02.480 keep everybody happy while getting something done. And you can't 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:04.480 do that, Um, you have to go all the way. 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:06.400 You have to pass HR one, you have to pass 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:08.160 HR four, you have to put everything on the line. 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.600 There's too much focus on twenty twenty two. Right. People 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.520 are concerned about getting primary, people are concerned about keeping 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.480 control of the House of Representatives. But this is all 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:20.040 happened in the context of UM, you know, the prospect 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:24.520 of losing control of the House anyway. So my question is, 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:26.840 do you do nothing in order to try to keep 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.720 control of the House and not sort of use the 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.280 power to that that the House gives you and you know, 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.600 as as a part of your majority status, or do 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:38.760 you do everything that you can and then run on 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:41.920 your record? Right. So that's why I just you know, 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:44.959 it's better to have something to run on UM than 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.600 to have nothing to run on, right. And and that's 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:52.359 what I what I what perpetually confuses me because I 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.639 feel like we're always here, right, We're always at this 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:58.320 crossroads where you know, we're trying to convince our elected 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.280 officials to use the power that they have. I'm working 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:03.919 on a book project right now that is about that 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:08.680 that very thing, right, I'm sort of chronicling Congress's exercises 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.200 of authority in the space of election since the founding, 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:14.120 so that Congress understands that it does have this authority. 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:18.000 The only problem is use it right, just right, You 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.679 just have to use it. But instead I think, you know, 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.120 it's like all eyes on twenty twenty two. But because 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.439 of that, that means that the Republicans can craft the 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.520 narrative right because they are also up for re election 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:32.080 in twenty twenty two, right, and they can paint this 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.160 Congress as or do nothing. Congress who you know wants 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.960 to enact all of this liberal legislation when in reality, 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:43.080 the liberal legislation what would benefit people from all walks 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:46.200 of life, even Republican voters. I'd rather run on that 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:50.200 than run on no record and let the Republicans craft 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:53.040 the narrative about my record. So I don't I don't 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:55.239 get it. But I'm also not an elected official, so 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.800 maybe I don't fully understand the political implications. But I 0:21:57.840 --> 0:21:59.320 do do election law, so I think I have a 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.360 pretty good grasp on what's going on. I don't think 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:05.200 that you need to be an acted official to recognize that, 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.120 like either you're going to be elected to do something 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:11.760 other than have this title and line your own pockets 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:16.000 with corporate interests or you're not like I like there, 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:19.840 we're not. You know, I wonder too, do you think 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:24.520 that because every election we always say the same things, 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:28.320 elections have consequences. You know this election is going to 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:31.600 be historic, or you know it's urgent, And because we 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:34.200 use this language all the time, do you think that 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:37.040 we have just kind of been a series of folks 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:39.960 crying wolf? And so now that we are at this 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:45.320 critical juncture that people don't recognize, including our elected officials, 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:50.360 just how consequential this moment is? I think that's entirely possible. Right, 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:53.000 But part of it is, you know, it's not that 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.240 the messaging is wrong, it's just that, So imagine saying 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:59.840 this is the most consequential election in a generation every time. Right, 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:01.560 we said that in twenty eighteen, we said that in 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:05.639 twenty twenty. Undoubtedly that was true, though, right, imagine what 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:08.200 would have happened on January sixth if the Republicans control 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.359 both houses of Congress. Right, twenty eighteen turned out to 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:14.440 be an awfully important election for giving Democrats control of 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:17.520 the House and stopping some of that. Right, twenty twenty 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:20.000 was also super important. We were we are in the 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:22.520 middle of a global pandemic and we had an administration 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:26.040 that wasn't doing enough to combat it. Right, So, you know, 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:28.360 these elections, when we say that these are the most 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:32.080 consequential elections in our lifetime, that actually means something. The 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:35.280 problem is that when elected officials get into office with 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:38.080 that mandate and they don't run with it. And that's 0:23:38.080 --> 0:23:39.720 why it seems like we're just sort of beating the 0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:42.240 drum and saying these things, and that it doesn't feel 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:45.160 true to people because they're not seeing the change that 0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:48.480 is behind that is basically behind the message. Right, We're 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:50.720 urging them to turn out and to vote and to 0:23:50.720 --> 0:23:53.399 participate because it's so important, and then they do that 0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:56.879