WEBVTT - Andor Season 2 (Episodes 7-9) Roundtable 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:00.600 Worrying. 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:04.320 Today's episode contains spoilers for and Or season two episode seven, 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:09.960 eight and nine, the third tranch of chapters from and 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:10.680 Or season two. 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:11.600 If you weren't. 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:30.440 Hello, my name is Jasconcepcio and I'm Rosie Night. 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.320 Welcome back to X ray Visions, the podcast movie dived 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.199 your favorite Jos movies, comics of pop culture for by 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.360 our podcast, where we'll bring you three episodes a week 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:41.360 every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:45.160 In today's episode, we are calling everyone back to Abbin 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.839 to discuss episode seven A and nine of Andor's second 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.320 season for our round table. It's roundly being called some 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:54.720 of the best star wars you've ever seen, not just 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.640 by me and Jason in all recently released social clips, 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.040 but also by the critical mass. There's one person who 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:03.240 won't be calling them that will. 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:04.440 Well let him in lay up. 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.720 So let's welcome a Boo and Joel. How you doing, guys, 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:09.360 So nice. 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:10.399 To have you, guys. 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:11.560 Very excited. 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.000 My eyes hurt from crying. It's a lot. 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.520 There was a lot, a lot of emotional stuff going on, 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:20.200 so let's just let's dig into it. Let's talk about it. 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.520 Yeah, first, you know, we've heard our Rosie and I 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.959 are opinions on this What what What are y'all's thoughts 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.639 on episode seven through nine? 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:33.200 A boo, let's start with you. 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.319 My thoughts are not much changed from last time. I 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:38.960 feel like a broken record at this point. But every 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:42.039 week I'm like, that was the greatest Star Wars I've 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.880 ever seen. It can't possibly get better. And then I 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:46.679 watched three more episodes of this show, and I'm like, 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.280 that was the greatest Star Wars I've ever seen. It 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:53.200 just keeps getting better. I think, gosh, I don't even 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:55.040 know if this is I'd have to like rewatch this 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:57.960 whole show and like really process it. But at the moment, 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.240 at the height of my emotions, having just watched and 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:04.400 rewatched this set of episodes, I think it's the best 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:09.760 one so far. And I might just be saying that again, yeah. 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.239 And I will say because there's gonna be quite a 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:16.799 lot of I think that sentiment. Aboo, what is it 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.760 for you that makes these three episodes some of the 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.080 best Star Wars, if not the best Star Wars that you. 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:31.600 Use mon Mathma keeps getting hotter? Important topic, No, I 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:36.360 think what's really gosh? I mean, like the stars aligning 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.560 the planets, aligning with the show releasing in this moment 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:44.000 in time, just keeps hitting it in ways that I 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.639 find like extremely unexpected, like Mon Mathema's speech. I was 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:50.919 expecting Mon to drop a fire speech, and she did. 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.400 But I think her specific use of the word genocide 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.560 given everything that's going on in the world, particularly in 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.640 the Israel Palestine corner of the world right now, like 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.880 Mon saying that word on the Senate floor to countless 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.440 people in a broadcast, to who knows trillions of citizens 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.280 across the Galactic Empire. Saying that word out loud and 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.720 acknowledging it, that kind of for me personally, hit like 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:16.680 a truck. And the show continues to do that over 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.640 and over again in ways that feel we've said it, 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.840 you know, on these episodes many times, but that feel 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:24.960 prescient in a way that is shocking. 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:29.440 In a speech about the what you call it abyss 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:32.240 between what we know to be true and what we're 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:37.480 able to say here, I mean fucking chills. And I 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.600 think compounded by the fact that it follows the attack 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:46.720 on Gore and the last speech. Dina's giving this speech 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:52.520 over the radio and she's talking about how her people 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.720 are being massacred and dying around her, and she's like, 0:03:56.000 --> 0:04:01.160 anyone can hear us? Like we're dying? I mean, I 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.680 and it tempt not to cry too early as sobbing, 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:08.120 Like I think it's just some of the most beautiful writing. 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:14.080 But also I think in a series about war to 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:18.040 bring us to a true point of hopelessness and crafting 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.440 a narrative around it so that you can too be 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.960 in it and feel it. I mean, I know, again 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:25.320 we say it all the time, but like the way 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:28.120 this Plus is rogue one in such a profound and 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.080 significant way, in the way that was able to Plus 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.400 a new hope. I mean, I think it's just so 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:34.720 impressive to be able to raise a series that's been 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:39.000 around for forty plus years in new and shocking ways 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.960 by treading over the things that made the series essential 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:45.839 in our hearts in the first place. I mean, what 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:47.440 he does with the force in this and I mean, 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:53.640 we'll get into it later, but I didn't know that 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:55.760 you could show and not tell us what the forces 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.880 without having to use like CGI and magical whimsy chimes 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:03.200 and stuff. He showed us what the force is without 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.680 any force powers. How'd you do it? It was incredible. 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.520 I was so moved by the series of episodes. To me, 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.279 this is the best Star Wars movie of all time, 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.280 and it is because it's hitting on the rebellion, it's 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:19.440 hitting on the politics, it's hitting on the purpose and 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:23.800 importance and impact of faith. I don't know if there's 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:28.560 better TV on or has ever been better TV on period. Yeah, 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:29.160 it's brilliant. 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.320 I think it's I think it's clearly the best TV 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:36.160 that's on right now. And I think we've we've been 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:41.279 banging that drum for a little while. Yeah, I had, 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.080 you know again, for a show that is obviously not 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:51.200 connected at all to current events at all, to find 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:56.240 the way it's resonating, it's just it's It is incredibly powerful. 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.800 And the thing that I took away from these episodes 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:04.440 in particular is this is kind of the awakening for 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:10.480 everybody that, Okay, there's no way forward without losing, without 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:15.480 getting hit, without giving up something, without sacrificing a relationship, 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:22.080 without sacrificing comfort, without sacrificing safety. There's no way to 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:26.360 go forward through this without being labeled a criminal or 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:30.640 an outlaw or a terrorist. Like and in a lot 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:35.080 of ways after that it seems like everything is is 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:41.039 almost easier. I'm fascinated also by the by the way 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.240 that these episodes in the series plays with some of 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:45.400 the tropes of Star Wars. 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.600 I think Dedra and Cyril for instances about them. 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.520 Yeah, because we're used to the idea in Star Wars 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:56.880 of the villain who is redeemed, who comes to a 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:00.560 moment where they realize, oh shit, on the bad guy, 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:05.119 I've been doing evil because I'm hurt, because I'm traumatized, 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:09.400 I'm doing evil for quote unquote the right reasons. Now 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.400 it's time to stop doing this. And we see both 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:18.520 Cyril and Dedra come to these realizations, but in ways 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.880 that are completely twisted from what we're used to. Cyril 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.200 has the scales falls from his eyes. He realizes, oh wait, 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.800 the Empire is doing bad stuff. People who don't like 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:32.480 the Empire are not diluted fools who have been misled 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:42.440 by you know, agitators. But he's still more comfortable throwing 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.720 his lot in with the bad guys than he is 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:45.680 doing anything else. 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:47.560 And then there's Dedra, who is. 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:54.200 Broadly against what is happening and what she's taking an 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:59.240 active role in doing, but is against it for purely 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:04.480 like personal reasons of ambitions and career. I think I 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:09.480 think that's really fascinating, showing the different ways that you 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.720 can be for something that's absolutely fucking terrible. 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:16.640 I completely agree. I think that this show and something 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.920 that has become very clear from my rewatches and then like, 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.040 as soon as this episode's hit, I'm in the discord, 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:24.720 I'm on ready, I want to know what everyone else 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.280 feels about it. I think something that Gil or I 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:32.560 did here was gave us more time with the Imperials 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:36.280 than we've ever gotten before, and not just time of 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.040 what do they believe in? What are they doing? Personal time, 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:43.360 personal interactions, and they humanized them, not so we would 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:48.760 feel empathetic, so that we could understand where they were 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:52.720 coming from. Sooo, what was your read now that. 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:53.559 We're this far in? 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:57.240 Obviously we are the rip, They're all part. 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:05.200 Of the Swiss, I think we would say, but aboo, 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:08.199 how did that part of these episodes speak to you 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.880 and kind of help raise it above what we've seen 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:11.920 before in Star Wars. 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:16.319 Yeah. Look, I think the two of you aptly called 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.679 Cyril a rat many times in your recap, and that 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:25.800 certainly fits the label is well deserved, but all throughout 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:29.080 Episode seven, in particular, where we see Cyril go out 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.920 into the massacre and you're like, is he gonna do something? 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:34.439 Is he gonna help someone? I was waiting for that 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:38.360 classic Star Wars redemption moment to happen, and I think 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:41.199 the show very much knew that as well. It was 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.120 very much teasing the serial redemption moment back to the light. 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.120 He saw his mistakes, the error of his ways, and 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.599 he's gonna do something small maybe, but something enough to 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:52.160 redeem him. 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.120 And he doesn't no. 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:56.800 The thing I loved about that moment Abo is it's 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:02.640 almost like he's so mad at Cassian, yeah, for bursting 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:08.560 his bubble, for making him realize the truth, and he's 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.120 almost more angry at that he would have preferred to 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.280 stay in the fantasy that the Upper's grade and everything's 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:15.320 gone great and all that shit. 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:15.640 Yeah. 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.880 I think that's the same reaction he has with who 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.400 is at Papa Rye Lance, the older, older man. He 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:24.920 tries to actually stop, you know, he realizes it's a trap. 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.120 And that was very hard for me to watch too, 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:30.520 because obviously the dramatic irony there as the viewer, I 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.680 know it's a trap. And this guy's right and nobody's 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.760 listening to him, and it's too late. But Cyril confronts 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.120 him as well and really like rough houses him, throws 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:40.240 and throws him to the ground. And I think it's 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:44.319 because he's coming face to face with the humanity of 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.360 the Gormans and the mistake that he's made. You know, 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:50.440 he's having these emotional outbursts and these reactions, literally grabbing 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:54.000 Dietre by the neck. I was like, oh my god, Yeah, 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:58.320 my god, I think it is. It was very enjoyable 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:02.160 for me to watch the serial breakdown happen. And at 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:06.320 the same time, part of me, the especially the little 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:08.400 kid in me who grew up watching Star Wars, was 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:12.719 waiting for Cyril to redeem himself and he never did. 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.080 And I think that that was brilliant and shocking. 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:16.959 Joelle, how about you. 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:21.920 I really appreciate So Dan Gilroy wrote this set of episodes, 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:23.559 and so I just want to make sure we like 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:29.319 shout out what he's done here to me, Like, I 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:33.360 it's so easy to hate Cyril, like wow, whiney Mama's boy, 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:38.400 like boot liquor rat, Like it's really easy to throw 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.439 all these lables. But she's earned, like not taking anything 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:42.920 away from that, but what I think has been done 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.640 really well here is there's a removal of the idea 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.920 that any of these people are monsters. Right, Like Will 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.120 at one point is like daters of monster. I don't 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.280 think datres a monster. I think Datre's a person who's 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.120 only just now discovered like true love. And I don't 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:00.839 mean just in the romance sense, like this is the 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.599 first person who's ever loved Dandra and taken time and 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.319 invested in her and believed in her beyond just what 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:08.040 she was able to do for him. 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:08.760 Right. 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.599 I think Cyril is a person who was told this 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.439 is what it is to be a man, and like 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:18.400 a good person is to fight for the empire. And 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.800 he's I'll just be a little crash, too stupid to 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.720 figure out like what's actually going on, like staring him 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:26.960 in the face. He doesn't see it at all. He's 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.400 so gobsmacked by the idea that he was like, it's 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:31.880 not you. They don't even think it's you. They think 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:33.360 it's outside people. And the guys like do you think 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:35.600 I'm stupid? Like how could you even say this word 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.160 to mean? He's like, no, I believe these words these 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.640 words aren't true. What's going on? And then the only 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.680 person that's ever been genuinely kind and supportive and defended 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.839 him that we've seen Deadra has been lying to him 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:49.840 for a years and he's finding all this out at 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:53.400 the same time, and he is unraveling in front of us. 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:58.840 And I think, I just think it's it's profoundly important 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.800 to remember all times that everyone you're dealing with is 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:06.839 a human and is a person, and so that when 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:08.880 you get to this final moment for him, you're not 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:12.599 so much mourning him as just mourning every point in 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:14.800 time that you've known him where he might have seen 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.080 the light and just made a different choice. 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:19.760 I do think that you made the point about, like, 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:24.319 how do humans enact terrific things? And this is a 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.320 great study in that. And I love I didn't actually 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.920 realize that this was Tony Gilroy's brother, Dan Gilroy, who 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.320 wrote this episode, So I'm saying, brother. 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:40.800 All three Gilroy's out here cooking absolutely is crazy. And yeah, 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:42.959 I just think I think, what like if we look 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:44.839 at like what's going on with Daja for a minute, 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:49.800 like she like, I mean, I went for Dadrea. Guys, 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.800 that's incredible writing that's incredible acting. I hated this woman 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.000 and she's so alone at the end of this, and 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.720 again from her own making. I don't feel bad for her. 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.400 She put herself in this position again at any time. 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.760 She is the one who literally is in the position 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:05.559 to call for this attack to happen or not. She 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.640 is guilty every which way you look. And yet I 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.720 feel for how alone and completely isolated and devastated by 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:19.080 her own decisions and how you understand fully she's never 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:21.400 ever going to get what she's seeking on this path. 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:33.080 There's no possible way, Dandre, for one one execu to another. 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.840 Your job cannot love you back, give you anything you 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.760 need things outside of this, and she has nothing. And 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:44.000 I just I mean to witness to hold space for 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.600 both their tragedies again that they set up themselves and 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.240 the horrific massacre of Gore. 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:52.440 I I don't. 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.160 I didn't think I had space for that kind of 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:59.480 except like realization, acceptance in my heart, in my body. 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:02.960 For them to do in a show, it's just entirely moving. 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:04.720 It's wonderful. Yeah. 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:15.000 I have a slightly different tweak on the dedrashial are 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.440 humans kind of a perspective which I completely agree with 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:24.040 It's important to remember the fleshing out of these characters 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:27.280 to allow you to understand how they came to this place. 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:28.360 I think is really important. 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.560 And for me it's what is What. 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:36.240 Hits is how is less about the tragedy of their 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:43.560 lives and more about how how much humility these characters 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.600 have to take into what they're doing, because it's not 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:52.800 that far away from what Cassian and the rebels are doing. 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:57.080 In terms of like an ideological leap two. It's just 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.320 like a little bit more thought, be a little bit 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.280 more thoughtless, be a little bit more closed off, be 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.680 a little bit less questioning, and you're just and you're 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.200 that person right without real without realizing it. 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:09.560 And I think it's that. 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.360 It's that the idea that it doesn't and really doesn't 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:16.400 take that much. 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.240 For you to for people who are just trying to 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:27.680 work a job to enact something terrible. That is truly 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.440 the for me, the gut punch thought of this, like, 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:35.800 these aren't these aren't spectacularly special. 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:39.880 People, you know, these are just sociopaths that they have enlist, 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.520 that people who have raised in a system. And I 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.240 think this makes this Jason, that's such a good point 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.400 because I do think as well as this is not 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.560 based on any specific real life experience, but we are 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:53.920 in a time again where we are getting reports that 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.520 people who are doing horrific things, who are disappearing. People 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.480 are saying, hey, I'm just following my orders. I'm not evil, 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.760 I'm just doing what the government tells me. And I 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:08.840 think there is definitely a continuous reckoning with that kind 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.440 of idea in this And Tony Giro did a great 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.760 interview with the Hollywood Reporter. Obviously, the show is in 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.320 pre production twenty twenty two, so it's more about being 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.960 prescient than no, like just making shows that are so 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.200 good that they end up feeling realistic whatever timeline you're in. 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:26.879 But he had this great thing, which I think is 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.240 a really good point, which says the really sorry truth 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.840 about this question about the genocide, question about the reality 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:36.040 of the show and what inspired it. And he said, 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:37.840 and we get it a lot, is that peace and 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.560 prosperity and calm are the rarities. Those are rarities throughout 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.120 the last six thousand years of recorded history. You could 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.160 drop this show at any point in the last six 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.280 thousand years and it would make sense to some people. 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.680 About what is happening to them. And I love the 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:55.919 notion of like Gilra is like, bro, human history sucks, 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:58.840 and guess what it's sucking right now. And it sucked 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.280 fifty years ago, and it sucked one hundred years ago. 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:06.040 And that's why this feels so relevant. And I kind 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:11.399 of love the almost like nihilistic viewpoint on that. And 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.520 the truth is, look, there's a reason it moved everyone. 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.640 People speaking truth to power, and as he continued to say, 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:20.040 is like the control of truth has always been the 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.360 scabbard of power, and power dictates the narrative. And look 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.080 at what the Empire does to Gorman with their propaganda campaign, 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.840 and that is like the realist shit, because I think 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:30.800 that is what makes it feel so real, is like 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.640 those people are in that system and at any point 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:37.880 in life a change could come where they would see 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.879 something different. Cassium wasn't always going to be a revolutionary. 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.440 He wasn't born into it, you know. And I think, 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:47.400 to me, the fact that this feels so real and literally, 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:49.960 like two days ago, we're hearing people say, oh, I'm 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.080 just following my job when they're disappearing people under the 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.080 guise of ice or homeland security and it feels just 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.200 as relevant to have that conversation. That is the power 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.760 of what Tony girl doing. As he said, it's not 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.320 a psychic this was made in twenty twenty two, But 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.320 I'm like, actually, that's the power of the storytelling. Can 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.119 you make something that feels so timeless that it has 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:16.639 literally started a global political discourse due to one speech 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:22.200 that you wrote two years before the Israel Palestine conflict 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:24.600 as it is now existed, Like that to me is 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.399 like an unbelievable understanding of history and human nature. And 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:32.960 I think that is what the stuff, specifically with Deirdre 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:37.159 and Cyril really was giving me, like a lot of 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.879 feelings in this of like how horrific to be the 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.879 human who makes the wrong choice and look at what 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.399 you've done, like look at the death you've caused, because 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.240 at no point did you listen to any kind of 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:50.800 inkling within yourself of whether this was right or wrong. 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.680 And I just think that's like unbelievable storytelling. And also 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.840 like rest in peace, piss to Cyril, as Jason put it, 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:00.880 like I don't care, like sorry, but I do think 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:02.240 it's an incredible story. 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:04.679 Let's take a quick break and then we'll be right 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:05.320 back before. 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:14.280 Y m h. 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:21.240 And we're back. 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.359 Jason, you raised a great point that I really wanted 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.480 to ask you about earlier. Would the Empire of one 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.360 if they had been more patient, like is the gold 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.760 massacre the critical misstep that it then goes on to 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.399 ignite the rebellion as not to not to. 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:42.399 Coach up, the not to coach up if I had 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:44.600 orchestrated the this is. 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:51.000 That said, not not saying you're doing, but that said. 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:55.520 I think what what is fascinating to me about about 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:58.439 the massacre and about this is. 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:00.680 What's the rush? 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:01.080 Guys? 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:03.760 Why you need the Death Star for what? 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:08.080 Like? What problem is the Death Star solving that the 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:14.320 fleet can't solve? And I would argue again not to 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:18.240 not to coach up the empire. But had they gone slower? 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:21.119 And I think this is in part a function of 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:25.800 the structure and culture of the empire, with all these 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:29.280 lap dogs all the way up to Palpatine just looking 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.679 to please their master Krenic. I'm under I must go faster, 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:33.800 mof Tarkan. 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:34.720 I must go faster. 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:37.840 I must please the Emperor. You know, I think if 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:43.960 they had gone slower and taken more time, I think 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:44.680 maybe they win. 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.159 I think I think maybe they have all of all empires. 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:50.439 Like that's why I about to say, the only thing 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.680 that the greed cannot help but topple itself, like the 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.920 the the graphs, the firm graphs cannot help, but like 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:01.760 crush and stuff, okay, everything it tries to touch. I 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.000 don't know if there's even if they crawl, you're going 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:07.600 to eviscerate an entire plant. Now you might do ovisterate 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:11.920 this planet and not have an immediate rise of action. Galactically, 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:15.000 perhaps they could have stuffled that out sooner, but really 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:18.840 it's just mod getting what like two inches ahead of them, 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.000 like two seconds to say, hey the emperor did this. 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:26.240 That really allows forward momentums. I don't I don't know. 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.600 I think the all empires are doomed eventually. 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:34.840 Well yeah, but there's a difference between like, you know, 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:39.520 five hundred years and five I think, you know, like 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:41.400 and these guys electrily. 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:41.680 Like one. 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:47.240 I and I think that they're I think that I 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:49.280 think the Death Star in and of itself is like 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:55.200 a huge mistake and was a vanity project and ego 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:57.920 project to say, like we've got the biggest gun in 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:01.920 the galaxy and when you really look at it for 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:05.680