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Speaker 1: Worrying.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode contains spoilers for and Or season two episode seven,

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Speaker 2: eight and nine, the third tranch of chapters from and

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Speaker 2: Or season two.

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Speaker 1: If you weren't.

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Speaker 3: Hello, my name is Jasconcepcio and I'm Rosie Night.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to X ray Visions, the podcast movie dived

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Speaker 2: your favorite Jos movies, comics of pop culture for by

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Speaker 2: our podcast, where we'll bring you three episodes a week

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Speaker 2: every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

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Speaker 4: In today's episode, we are calling everyone back to Abbin

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Speaker 4: to discuss episode seven A and nine of Andor's second

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Speaker 4: season for our round table. It's roundly being called some

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Speaker 4: of the best star wars you've ever seen, not just

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Speaker 4: by me and Jason in all recently released social clips,

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Speaker 4: but also by the critical mass. There's one person who

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Speaker 4: won't be calling them that will.

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Speaker 3: Well let him in lay up.

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Speaker 4: So let's welcome a Boo and Joel. How you doing, guys,

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Speaker 4: So nice.

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Speaker 1: To have you, guys.

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Speaker 5: Very excited.

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Speaker 1: My eyes hurt from crying. It's a lot.

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Speaker 4: There was a lot, a lot of emotional stuff going on,

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Speaker 4: so let's just let's dig into it. Let's talk about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, first, you know, we've heard our Rosie and I

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Speaker 2: are opinions on this What what What are y'all's thoughts

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Speaker 2: on episode seven through nine?

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Speaker 3: A boo, let's start with you.

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Speaker 5: My thoughts are not much changed from last time. I

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Speaker 5: feel like a broken record at this point. But every

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Speaker 5: week I'm like, that was the greatest Star Wars I've

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Speaker 5: ever seen. It can't possibly get better. And then I

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Speaker 5: watched three more episodes of this show, and I'm like,

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Speaker 5: that was the greatest Star Wars I've ever seen. It

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Speaker 5: just keeps getting better. I think, gosh, I don't even

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Speaker 5: know if this is I'd have to like rewatch this

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Speaker 5: whole show and like really process it. But at the moment,

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Speaker 5: at the height of my emotions, having just watched and

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Speaker 5: rewatched this set of episodes, I think it's the best

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Speaker 5: one so far. And I might just be saying that again, yeah.

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Speaker 4: And I will say because there's gonna be quite a

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Speaker 4: lot of I think that sentiment. Aboo, what is it

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Speaker 4: for you that makes these three episodes some of the

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Speaker 4: best Star Wars, if not the best Star Wars that you.

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Speaker 5: Use mon Mathma keeps getting hotter? Important topic, No, I

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Speaker 5: think what's really gosh? I mean, like the stars aligning

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Speaker 5: the planets, aligning with the show releasing in this moment

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Speaker 5: in time, just keeps hitting it in ways that I

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Speaker 5: find like extremely unexpected, like Mon Mathema's speech. I was

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Speaker 5: expecting Mon to drop a fire speech, and she did.

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Speaker 5: But I think her specific use of the word genocide

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Speaker 5: given everything that's going on in the world, particularly in

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Speaker 5: the Israel Palestine corner of the world right now, like

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Speaker 5: Mon saying that word on the Senate floor to countless

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Speaker 5: people in a broadcast, to who knows trillions of citizens

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Speaker 5: across the Galactic Empire. Saying that word out loud and

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Speaker 5: acknowledging it, that kind of for me personally, hit like

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Speaker 5: a truck. And the show continues to do that over

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Speaker 5: and over again in ways that feel we've said it,

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Speaker 5: you know, on these episodes many times, but that feel

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Speaker 5: prescient in a way that is shocking.

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Speaker 1: In a speech about the what you call it abyss

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Speaker 1: between what we know to be true and what we're

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Speaker 1: able to say here, I mean fucking chills. And I

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Speaker 1: think compounded by the fact that it follows the attack

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Speaker 1: on Gore and the last speech. Dina's giving this speech

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Speaker 1: over the radio and she's talking about how her people

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Speaker 1: are being massacred and dying around her, and she's like,

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Speaker 1: anyone can hear us? Like we're dying? I mean, I

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Speaker 1: and it tempt not to cry too early as sobbing,

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Speaker 1: Like I think it's just some of the most beautiful writing.

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Speaker 1: But also I think in a series about war to

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Speaker 1: bring us to a true point of hopelessness and crafting

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Speaker 1: a narrative around it so that you can too be

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Speaker 1: in it and feel it. I mean, I know, again

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Speaker 1: we say it all the time, but like the way

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Speaker 1: this Plus is rogue one in such a profound and

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Speaker 1: significant way, in the way that was able to Plus

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Speaker 1: a new hope. I mean, I think it's just so

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Speaker 1: impressive to be able to raise a series that's been

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Speaker 1: around for forty plus years in new and shocking ways

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Speaker 1: by treading over the things that made the series essential

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Speaker 1: in our hearts in the first place. I mean, what

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Speaker 1: he does with the force in this and I mean,

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Speaker 1: we'll get into it later, but I didn't know that

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Speaker 1: you could show and not tell us what the forces

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Speaker 1: without having to use like CGI and magical whimsy chimes

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Speaker 1: and stuff. He showed us what the force is without

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Speaker 1: any force powers. How'd you do it? It was incredible.

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Speaker 1: I was so moved by the series of episodes. To me,

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Speaker 1: this is the best Star Wars movie of all time,

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Speaker 1: and it is because it's hitting on the rebellion, it's

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Speaker 1: hitting on the politics, it's hitting on the purpose and

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Speaker 1: importance and impact of faith. I don't know if there's

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Speaker 1: better TV on or has ever been better TV on period. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's brilliant.

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Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's clearly the best TV

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Speaker 2: that's on right now. And I think we've we've been

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Speaker 2: banging that drum for a little while. Yeah, I had,

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Speaker 2: you know again, for a show that is obviously not

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Speaker 2: connected at all to current events at all, to find

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Speaker 2: the way it's resonating, it's just it's It is incredibly powerful.

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Speaker 2: And the thing that I took away from these episodes

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Speaker 2: in particular is this is kind of the awakening for

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Speaker 2: everybody that, Okay, there's no way forward without losing, without

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Speaker 2: getting hit, without giving up something, without sacrificing a relationship,

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Speaker 2: without sacrificing comfort, without sacrificing safety. There's no way to

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Speaker 2: go forward through this without being labeled a criminal or

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Speaker 2: an outlaw or a terrorist. Like and in a lot

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Speaker 2: of ways after that it seems like everything is is

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Speaker 2: almost easier. I'm fascinated also by the by the way

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Speaker 2: that these episodes in the series plays with some of

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Speaker 2: the tropes of Star Wars.

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Speaker 3: I think Dedra and Cyril for instances about them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because we're used to the idea in Star Wars

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Speaker 2: of the villain who is redeemed, who comes to a

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Speaker 2: moment where they realize, oh shit, on the bad guy,

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Speaker 2: I've been doing evil because I'm hurt, because I'm traumatized,

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Speaker 2: I'm doing evil for quote unquote the right reasons. Now

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Speaker 2: it's time to stop doing this. And we see both

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Speaker 2: Cyril and Dedra come to these realizations, but in ways

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Speaker 2: that are completely twisted from what we're used to. Cyril

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Speaker 2: has the scales falls from his eyes. He realizes, oh wait,

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Speaker 2: the Empire is doing bad stuff. People who don't like

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Speaker 2: the Empire are not diluted fools who have been misled

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Speaker 2: by you know, agitators. But he's still more comfortable throwing

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Speaker 2: his lot in with the bad guys than he is

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Speaker 2: doing anything else.

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Speaker 3: And then there's Dedra, who is.

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Speaker 2: Broadly against what is happening and what she's taking an

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Speaker 2: active role in doing, but is against it for purely

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Speaker 2: like personal reasons of ambitions and career. I think I

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Speaker 2: think that's really fascinating, showing the different ways that you

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Speaker 2: can be for something that's absolutely fucking terrible.

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Speaker 4: I completely agree. I think that this show and something

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Speaker 4: that has become very clear from my rewatches and then like,

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Speaker 4: as soon as this episode's hit, I'm in the discord,

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Speaker 4: I'm on ready, I want to know what everyone else

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Speaker 4: feels about it. I think something that Gil or I

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Speaker 4: did here was gave us more time with the Imperials

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Speaker 4: than we've ever gotten before, and not just time of

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Speaker 4: what do they believe in? What are they doing? Personal time,

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Speaker 4: personal interactions, and they humanized them, not so we would

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Speaker 4: feel empathetic, so that we could understand where they were

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Speaker 4: coming from. Sooo, what was your read now that.

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Speaker 3: We're this far in?

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Speaker 4: Obviously we are the rip, They're all part.

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Speaker 6: Of the Swiss, I think we would say, but aboo,

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Speaker 6: how did that part of these episodes speak to you

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Speaker 6: and kind of help raise it above what we've seen

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Speaker 6: before in Star Wars.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Look, I think the two of you aptly called

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Speaker 5: Cyril a rat many times in your recap, and that

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Speaker 5: certainly fits the label is well deserved, but all throughout

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Speaker 5: Episode seven, in particular, where we see Cyril go out

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Speaker 5: into the massacre and you're like, is he gonna do something?

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Speaker 5: Is he gonna help someone? I was waiting for that

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Speaker 5: classic Star Wars redemption moment to happen, and I think

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Speaker 5: the show very much knew that as well. It was

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Speaker 5: very much teasing the serial redemption moment back to the light.

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Speaker 5: He saw his mistakes, the error of his ways, and

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Speaker 5: he's gonna do something small maybe, but something enough to

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Speaker 5: redeem him.

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Speaker 7: And he doesn't no.

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Speaker 2: The thing I loved about that moment Abo is it's

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Speaker 2: almost like he's so mad at Cassian, yeah, for bursting

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Speaker 2: his bubble, for making him realize the truth, and he's

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Speaker 2: almost more angry at that he would have preferred to

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Speaker 2: stay in the fantasy that the Upper's grade and everything's

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Speaker 2: gone great and all that shit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think that's the same reaction he has with who

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Speaker 5: is at Papa Rye Lance, the older, older man. He

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Speaker 5: tries to actually stop, you know, he realizes it's a trap.

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Speaker 5: And that was very hard for me to watch too,

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Speaker 5: because obviously the dramatic irony there as the viewer, I

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Speaker 5: know it's a trap. And this guy's right and nobody's

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Speaker 5: listening to him, and it's too late. But Cyril confronts

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Speaker 5: him as well and really like rough houses him, throws

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Speaker 5: and throws him to the ground. And I think it's

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Speaker 5: because he's coming face to face with the humanity of

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Speaker 5: the Gormans and the mistake that he's made. You know,

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Speaker 5: he's having these emotional outbursts and these reactions, literally grabbing

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Speaker 5: Dietre by the neck. I was like, oh my god, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: my god, I think it is. It was very enjoyable

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Speaker 5: for me to watch the serial breakdown happen. And at

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Speaker 5: the same time, part of me, the especially the little

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Speaker 5: kid in me who grew up watching Star Wars, was

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Speaker 5: waiting for Cyril to redeem himself and he never did.

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Speaker 5: And I think that that was brilliant and shocking.

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Speaker 4: Joelle, how about you.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate So Dan Gilroy wrote this set of episodes,

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Speaker 1: and so I just want to make sure we like

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Speaker 1: shout out what he's done here to me, Like, I

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Speaker 1: it's so easy to hate Cyril, like wow, whiney Mama's boy,

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Speaker 1: like boot liquor rat, Like it's really easy to throw

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Speaker 1: all these lables. But she's earned, like not taking anything

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Speaker 1: away from that, but what I think has been done

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Speaker 1: really well here is there's a removal of the idea

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Speaker 1: that any of these people are monsters. Right, Like Will

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Speaker 1: at one point is like daters of monster. I don't

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Speaker 1: think datres a monster. I think Datre's a person who's

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Speaker 1: only just now discovered like true love. And I don't

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Speaker 1: mean just in the romance sense, like this is the

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Speaker 1: first person who's ever loved Dandra and taken time and

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Speaker 1: invested in her and believed in her beyond just what

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Speaker 1: she was able to do for him.

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Speaker 8: Right.

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Speaker 1: I think Cyril is a person who was told this

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Speaker 1: is what it is to be a man, and like

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Speaker 1: a good person is to fight for the empire. And

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Speaker 1: he's I'll just be a little crash, too stupid to

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Speaker 1: figure out like what's actually going on, like staring him

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Speaker 1: in the face. He doesn't see it at all. He's

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Speaker 1: so gobsmacked by the idea that he was like, it's

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Speaker 1: not you. They don't even think it's you. They think

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Speaker 1: it's outside people. And the guys like do you think

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Speaker 1: I'm stupid? Like how could you even say this word

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Speaker 1: to mean? He's like, no, I believe these words these

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Speaker 1: words aren't true. What's going on? And then the only

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Speaker 1: person that's ever been genuinely kind and supportive and defended

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Speaker 1: him that we've seen Deadra has been lying to him

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Speaker 1: for a years and he's finding all this out at

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Speaker 1: the same time, and he is unraveling in front of us.

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Speaker 1: And I think, I just think it's it's profoundly important

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Speaker 1: to remember all times that everyone you're dealing with is

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Speaker 1: a human and is a person, and so that when

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Speaker 1: you get to this final moment for him, you're not

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Speaker 1: so much mourning him as just mourning every point in

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Speaker 1: time that you've known him where he might have seen

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Speaker 1: the light and just made a different choice.

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Speaker 4: I do think that you made the point about, like,

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Speaker 4: how do humans enact terrific things? And this is a

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Speaker 4: great study in that. And I love I didn't actually

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Speaker 4: realize that this was Tony Gilroy's brother, Dan Gilroy, who

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Speaker 4: wrote this episode, So I'm saying, brother.

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Speaker 1: All three Gilroy's out here cooking absolutely is crazy. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just think I think, what like if we look

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Speaker 1: at like what's going on with Daja for a minute,

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Speaker 1: like she like, I mean, I went for Dadrea. Guys,

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Speaker 1: that's incredible writing that's incredible acting. I hated this woman

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Speaker 1: and she's so alone at the end of this, and

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Speaker 1: again from her own making. I don't feel bad for her.

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Speaker 1: She put herself in this position again at any time.

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Speaker 1: She is the one who literally is in the position

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Speaker 1: to call for this attack to happen or not. She

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Speaker 1: is guilty every which way you look. And yet I

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Speaker 1: feel for how alone and completely isolated and devastated by

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Speaker 1: her own decisions and how you understand fully she's never

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Speaker 1: ever going to get what she's seeking on this path.

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Speaker 1: There's no possible way, Dandre, for one one execu to another.

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Speaker 1: Your job cannot love you back, give you anything you

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Speaker 1: need things outside of this, and she has nothing. And

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Speaker 1: I just I mean to witness to hold space for

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Speaker 1: both their tragedies again that they set up themselves and

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Speaker 1: the horrific massacre of Gore.

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Speaker 4: I I don't.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think I had space for that kind of

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Speaker 1: except like realization, acceptance in my heart, in my body.

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Speaker 1: For them to do in a show, it's just entirely moving.

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Speaker 1: It's wonderful. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I have a slightly different tweak on the dedrashial are

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Speaker 2: humans kind of a perspective which I completely agree with

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Speaker 2: It's important to remember the fleshing out of these characters

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Speaker 2: to allow you to understand how they came to this place.

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Speaker 2: I think is really important.

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Speaker 3: And for me it's what is What.

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Speaker 2: Hits is how is less about the tragedy of their

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Speaker 2: lives and more about how how much humility these characters

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Speaker 2: have to take into what they're doing, because it's not

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Speaker 2: that far away from what Cassian and the rebels are doing.

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Speaker 2: In terms of like an ideological leap two. It's just

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Speaker 2: like a little bit more thought, be a little bit

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Speaker 2: more thoughtless, be a little bit more closed off, be

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Speaker 2: a little bit less questioning, and you're just and you're

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Speaker 2: that person right without real without realizing it.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's that.

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Speaker 3: It's that the idea that it doesn't and really doesn't

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Speaker 3: take that much.

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Speaker 2: For you to for people who are just trying to

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Speaker 2: work a job to enact something terrible. That is truly

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Speaker 2: the for me, the gut punch thought of this, like,

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Speaker 2: these aren't these aren't spectacularly special.

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Speaker 4: People, you know, these are just sociopaths that they have enlist,

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Speaker 4: that people who have raised in a system. And I

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Speaker 4: think this makes this Jason, that's such a good point

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Speaker 4: because I do think as well as this is not

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Speaker 4: based on any specific real life experience, but we are

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Speaker 4: in a time again where we are getting reports that

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Speaker 4: people who are doing horrific things, who are disappearing. People

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Speaker 4: are saying, hey, I'm just following my orders. I'm not evil,

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Speaker 4: I'm just doing what the government tells me. And I

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Speaker 4: think there is definitely a continuous reckoning with that kind

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Speaker 4: of idea in this And Tony Giro did a great

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Speaker 4: interview with the Hollywood Reporter. Obviously, the show is in

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Speaker 4: pre production twenty twenty two, so it's more about being

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Speaker 4: prescient than no, like just making shows that are so

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Speaker 4: good that they end up feeling realistic whatever timeline you're in.

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Speaker 4: But he had this great thing, which I think is

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Speaker 4: a really good point, which says the really sorry truth

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Speaker 4: about this question about the genocide, question about the reality

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Speaker 4: of the show and what inspired it. And he said,

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Speaker 4: and we get it a lot, is that peace and

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Speaker 4: prosperity and calm are the rarities. Those are rarities throughout

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Speaker 4: the last six thousand years of recorded history. You could

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Speaker 4: drop this show at any point in the last six

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Speaker 4: thousand years and it would make sense to some people.

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Speaker 4: About what is happening to them. And I love the

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Speaker 4: notion of like Gilra is like, bro, human history sucks,

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Speaker 4: and guess what it's sucking right now. And it sucked

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Speaker 4: fifty years ago, and it sucked one hundred years ago.

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Speaker 4: And that's why this feels so relevant. And I kind

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Speaker 4: of love the almost like nihilistic viewpoint on that. And

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Speaker 4: the truth is, look, there's a reason it moved everyone.

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Speaker 4: People speaking truth to power, and as he continued to say,

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Speaker 4: is like the control of truth has always been the

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Speaker 4: scabbard of power, and power dictates the narrative. And look

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Speaker 4: at what the Empire does to Gorman with their propaganda campaign,

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Speaker 4: and that is like the realist shit, because I think

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Speaker 4: that is what makes it feel so real, is like

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Speaker 4: those people are in that system and at any point

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Speaker 4: in life a change could come where they would see

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Speaker 4: something different. Cassium wasn't always going to be a revolutionary.

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Speaker 4: He wasn't born into it, you know. And I think,

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Speaker 4: to me, the fact that this feels so real and literally,

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Speaker 4: like two days ago, we're hearing people say, oh, I'm

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Speaker 4: just following my job when they're disappearing people under the

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Speaker 4: guise of ice or homeland security and it feels just

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Speaker 4: as relevant to have that conversation. That is the power

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Speaker 4: of what Tony girl doing. As he said, it's not

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Speaker 4: a psychic this was made in twenty twenty two, But

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Speaker 4: I'm like, actually, that's the power of the storytelling. Can

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Speaker 4: you make something that feels so timeless that it has

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Speaker 4: literally started a global political discourse due to one speech

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Speaker 4: that you wrote two years before the Israel Palestine conflict

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Speaker 4: as it is now existed, Like that to me is

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Speaker 4: like an unbelievable understanding of history and human nature. And

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Speaker 4: I think that is what the stuff, specifically with Deirdre

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Speaker 4: and Cyril really was giving me, like a lot of

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Speaker 4: feelings in this of like how horrific to be the

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Speaker 4: human who makes the wrong choice and look at what

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Speaker 4: you've done, like look at the death you've caused, because

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Speaker 4: at no point did you listen to any kind of

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Speaker 4: inkling within yourself of whether this was right or wrong.

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Speaker 4: And I just think that's like unbelievable storytelling. And also

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Speaker 4: like rest in peace, piss to Cyril, as Jason put it,

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Speaker 4: like I don't care, like sorry, but I do think

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Speaker 4: it's an incredible story.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break and then we'll be right

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Speaker 3: back before.

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Speaker 2: Y m h.

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Speaker 3: And we're back.

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Speaker 4: Jason, you raised a great point that I really wanted

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Speaker 4: to ask you about earlier. Would the Empire of one

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Speaker 4: if they had been more patient, like is the gold

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Speaker 4: massacre the critical misstep that it then goes on to

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Speaker 4: ignite the rebellion as not to not to.

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Speaker 3: Coach up, the not to coach up if I had

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Speaker 3: orchestrated the this is.

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Speaker 1: That said, not not saying you're doing, but that said.

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Speaker 2: I think what what is fascinating to me about about

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Speaker 2: the massacre and about this is.

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Speaker 3: What's the rush?

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Speaker 1: Guys?

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Speaker 3: Why you need the Death Star for what?

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Speaker 2: Like? What problem is the Death Star solving that the

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Speaker 2: fleet can't solve? And I would argue again not to

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Speaker 2: not to coach up the empire. But had they gone slower?

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Speaker 2: And I think this is in part a function of

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Speaker 2: the structure and culture of the empire, with all these

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Speaker 2: lap dogs all the way up to Palpatine just looking

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Speaker 2: to please their master Krenic. I'm under I must go faster,

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Speaker 2: mof Tarkan.

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Speaker 3: I must go faster.

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Speaker 2: I must please the Emperor. You know, I think if

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Speaker 2: they had gone slower and taken more time, I think

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Speaker 2: maybe they win.

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Speaker 3: I think I think maybe they have all of all empires.

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Speaker 1: Like that's why I about to say, the only thing

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Speaker 1: that the greed cannot help but topple itself, like the

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Speaker 1: the the graphs, the firm graphs cannot help, but like

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Speaker 1: crush and stuff, okay, everything it tries to touch. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if there's even if they crawl, you're going

385
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Speaker 1: to eviscerate an entire plant. Now you might do ovisterate

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Speaker 1: this planet and not have an immediate rise of action. Galactically,

387
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Speaker 1: perhaps they could have stuffled that out sooner, but really

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Speaker 1: it's just mod getting what like two inches ahead of them,

389
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Speaker 1: like two seconds to say, hey the emperor did this.

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Speaker 1: That really allows forward momentums. I don't I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think the all empires are doomed eventually.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, but there's a difference between like, you know,

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Speaker 2: five hundred years and five I think, you know, like

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Speaker 2: and these guys electrily.

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Speaker 1: Like one.

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Speaker 2: I and I think that they're I think that I

397
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Speaker 2: think the Death Star in and of itself is like

398
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Speaker 2: a huge mistake and was a vanity project and ego

399
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Speaker 2: project to say, like we've got the biggest gun in

400
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Speaker 2: the galaxy and when you really look at it for

401
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Speaker 2: what was necessary for what you have the Senate you

402
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:11,160
Speaker 2: already age doing genocide easily. Galactic system is completely under

403
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 2: your control. The media, the galactic media completely under your control.

404
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 2: You have despite this nascent rebellion.

405
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Speaker 1: That is.

406
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Speaker 3: Very courageous.

407
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 2: But like I bet you, like you could find some

408
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Speaker 2: independent statistician in the in the galaxy right now to say, okay,

409
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Speaker 2: like what are they really what are they really doing?

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

411
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Speaker 4: Like a propaganda army.

412
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got a propaganda arm You've got a justice

413
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Speaker 2: system for that reason, why do this? And I think

414
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Speaker 2: it was the shock of this and Mon's courage and

415
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Speaker 2: the courage of all the rebels in the face of

416
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Speaker 2: this that allowed everybody to wake up, because I think

417
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Speaker 2: there's an argument that if they go if like the

418
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Speaker 2: boiling the frog in the water, if they step it up,

419
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Speaker 2: people will just be like, you know what, I don't

420
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Speaker 2: like the empire. This sucks, but I'm not looking for

421
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Speaker 2: to get killed, you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I think my brain like was melting in my

423
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Speaker 4: head as I realized just how not relevant to real

424
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 4: life this is this hundred days last hundred days of

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Speaker 4: speeding through destroying democracy. I'm like, that was like melting

426
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Speaker 4: my brain because Jason, You're absolutely right. Aboo, how does

427
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 4: the balance between these huge intergalactic political conversations and questions

428
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 4: about the empire and their efficiency merge in this three

429
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Speaker 4: episodes with the kind of heart of the show with

430
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Speaker 4: bix and and or like, did those big swings work

431
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 4: for you? Because it's very tonally different. But I think

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Speaker 4: it landed.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it absolutely landed. And before I get

434
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Speaker 5: to that, I do want to offer up a potential

435
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 5: answer to Jason's question why did the empire rush here?

436
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 5: I think perhaps in a addition to normal bureaucratic like

437
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 5: I gotta suck up to the boss in front of

438
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 5: me and always have something like exciting and new to report.

439
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 5: It's boring if credit goes to the ghost of Palpi

440
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 5: and is like, yeah, things are slow and steady. Just

441
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 5: hang tight.

442
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 7: It's gonna take.

443
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 5: This is like a it's a very long term, fifteen

444
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 5: year plan. I need you to hang tight, Like to

445
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 5: be real, Like, nobody at their job can go to

446
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 5: their boss and like say that enough times before their

447
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 5: boss is like, so nothing.

448
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 4: Is happening, and you're like it is it just has

449
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 4: to be so we do we They do have the

450
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 4: time constraints of the story as it was in nineteen

451
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 4: seventy seven and before.

452
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,959
Speaker 5: So I do like that absolutely, But I think there

453
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 5: it also speaks to a culture of arrogance within the empire,

454
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 5: like you do could to control the media, you do

455
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 5: control the biggest fleet in the entire galaxy. Who cares

456
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 5: about these rebels, Like we'll just crush them, It'll just

457
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 5: be a blitz on the radar, and we're just so

458
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 5: big and unstoppable. Uh, And maybe it speaks to a

459
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 5: little bit of arrogance on about Palpatine as well, like

460
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 5: he almost single handedly toppled a republic, getting wiped out

461
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 5: the Jedi quote unquote wiped out the Jedi. So what

462
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 5: are a couple of like rich French Gorman is going

463
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 5: to do to him?

464
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: You know?

465
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 5: So I think that top level arrogance might maybe seeps

466
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 5: down to lieutenants and then subordinates and then all the

467
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 5: way down to folks like Dadri and Carrel. This idea

468
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 5: that like we're unstoppable, we are the machine. What are

469
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 5: a couple of rebels.

470
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 8: Going to do?

471
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 5: And so, yeah, if we want something, we just take it.

472
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 5: There's no need to go slow and easy and worry

473
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 5: about any outside agitators actually endangering us. But I think overall,

474
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 5: the politics of the show combined and contrasted with the

475
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 5: very personal stakes for and Or and Bix. To get

476
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 5: to your question, Rosie, that absolutely works for me because

477
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 5: I think the show brilliantly does here's large scale, and

478
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 5: here's how the large scale affects the person and the

479
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 5: personal and the interpersonal. And so you know, as we

480
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 5: see over the arc of these three episodes, like the

481
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 5: heartbreaking decision that Biggs makes and how that affects and Or, like,

482
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 5: none of that has to do with I mean, of

483
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 5: course it does have to do with the big picture

484
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 5: empire stuff, but that is two people figuring out a

485
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 5: relationship and their current circumstances, and both of those things

486
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 5: hit just as hard, which is brilliant.

487
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: Let's talk about that, because there's a conversation a little

488
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: bit in our discord about about whether or not about

489
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: this idea that there's there's a discussion about whether the

490
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 2: show is kind of having it both ways, both saying

491
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: community is important in the face of oppression, you know,

492
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 2: grassroots connections between people, but also that relationships are going

493
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 2: to get broken, like you can't you have to break up.

494
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 3: You can't be in love and also be a rebel.

495
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: I disagree with that.

496
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 3: I disagree on several fronts.

497
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 2: Because I think listen, I think, I think the with

498
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 2: love and respect, with love and respect, I disagree. I

499
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 2: think the continuing escapades of Will in his uh in

500
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 2: his various passions, direct objection to.

501
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 4: He's falling in love, He's happen some ride, He's a

502
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 4: functioning user.

503
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, this guy is having so I I disagree with that,

504
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 2: but I but I understand the I understand the the notion,

505
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: and I think it's part of it is just like

506
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: the human objection to the idea that we want Cassie

507
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 2: and and Bix to be together, right and they and

508
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: they don't end up being together at least at the

509
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 2: end of these episodes. And I think that is hurtful

510
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: to people. But I wanted to get people's take about

511
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: how can you can you can you have a really

512
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 2: when you're in a rebellion, when you're in a war?

513
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 2: Can you juggle personal relationships and this larger struggle?

514
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: I want to throw it back to our girl Marva, Yes,

515
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: and conversations she had with Cassie in where he was like,

516
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: but I'll worry. She's like, that's just love, dear, There's

517
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: nothing you can do about that. I think if you

518
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: feel this way, the show's doing a great job of

519
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: making you love and fall in love with these characters,

520
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: and not seeing them together is tremendously awful. And I

521
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: also think if you're a Star Wars fan, you are

522
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: used to love winning the day, and so perhaps that's

523
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: a little bit of an adjustment for you in this series.

524
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: I think loving acts don't always feel loving, And I

525
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: think when we talk more about the role the Force

526
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: is playing in this series, we can delve a little

527
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: bit more into Bigs's decision at the end. But I

528
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: was like, just genuinely, I think love is what is

529
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: keeping all of this together. I don't think the show

530
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: is telling you you can't have love. I think the

531
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: show is saying love is often comes from a point

532
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: of sacrifice. Yeah, it comes to and if you have

533
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: really great parents who at all have had to struggle

534
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: in their life, you'll completely understand this perspective of like

535
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: they they lose a lot in order to give you something.

536
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: All the entirety of the rebellion is an active love

537
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: to the entirety of the galaxy to say what we

538
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: want is the thing that Andor's repeat, Oh, the guys

539
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: is so brilliant. I don't know if you guy's going

540
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: back and watch season one at all, but in the

541
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: first three episodes, and Or is constantly like, I don't

542
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: know what to do. I mean literally, like every every

543
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: scene I think ends with him being told by another person,

544
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: here's what you're gonna do next, and then he goes

545
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: and does it. And in these episodes he's like, I

546
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: just I want to make my own decisions, and like,

547
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: that's literally what we're fighting for her. That is the

548
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,959
Speaker 1: whole point of us being here is so that everyone

549
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: can make their own choices.

550
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 4: I also think that the love thing is really interesting

551
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 4: because we do see Star Wars as love. Concerzole you,

552
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 4: even if you fall in love with your sister, don't worry,

553
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 4: She'll fall in love with someone else and that won't

554
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 4: be weird, Anna, like love is, you know, love is

555
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 4: a tangible thing. I love the EU. I have my

556
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 4: Star Wars you books back there. There's so much marriage,

557
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 4: so much love, so much personality and kind of fire

558
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 4: found through those relationships. What I think and on does

559
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 4: it's pretty fantastic is by show Joelle. I agree with

560
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 4: everything that you said, Like I think Bix is making

561
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 4: the sacrifice out of love. But what I think is

562
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 4: really interesting is they also represent like Theirdra and Cyril

563
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 4: as like, guess what, sometimes love is actually massively fucking

564
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 4: dysfunctional and does not save everything. Those who didn't decide

565
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 4: because they were in love that they had to, you know,

566
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 4: love concazole, let's escape, let's get off. Though I do

567
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 4: believe Cyril would have done that honestly because he was

568
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 4: a symp for Deirdre. But like they didn't come together.

569
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 4: Love is almost neutral in that space. It didn't make

570
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 4: it worse. Maybe their behavior actually got worse because they

571
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 4: met each other, you know, and she was able to

572
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 4: use a tool Cyril as a tool because of his love.

573
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 4: So I think something that the show does that's really brave.

574
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 4: There's showing us different kinds of love and not kind

575
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 4: of fitting into that idea of love will save the day.

576
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 4: But in some cases it can. And Biggs's choice, as

577
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 4: we know from watching Rogue, is a key choice and

578
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 4: is the reason that it ends up the death start

579
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 4: ends up being able to be destroyed. And I just

580
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 4: think that there's so much intrinsic complexity in their representation

581
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 4: of love that we often don't get in your classic

582
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 4: happily ever after style, which is, by the way, a

583
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 4: story that I love story trope, I love, I love

584
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 4: reading happily ever after romances. But I think that just

585
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 4: as the rest of the show is very complex the

586
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 4: representation of love and what it means to love and

587
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 4: whether you're a found family or you're loving someone just

588
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 4: because they're in the same situation as you, I just

589
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 4: think they really did something profound with it that until

590
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 4: you were kind of talking about Joel, I didn't really

591
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 4: clock on too just how much the dead rassyrial stuff

592
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 4: is kind of a refutation of the idea that if

593
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 4: you're in love, you're somehow pure, which I think is interesting.

594
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 3: I completely agree.

595
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 5: I also think the show is not saying there's only

596
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 5: one way to be a rebel, and that and that

597
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 5: you must sacrifice a B C D in order to

598
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 5: check the boxes of Okay, now you are a rebel,

599
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 5: now you are casting it, or I think that's you know,

600
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 5: we have seen I believe YouTube Jason and Rosie said

601
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 5: this in your recaps, but the show has continuously showed

602
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 5: us how the little guy, the normal person can do.

603
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 3: The small, tiny thing.

604
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, exactly to how did you put it?

605
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 5: Gum up this come up the system? I think you

606
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 5: and that you know that hotel attendant might have like

607
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 5: a wife and kids or something like he maybe he

608
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 5: didn't give up love, but he still participated in his

609
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 5: own small way, and I would consider him just as

610
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 5: much a rebel as I would consider bix or and

611
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 5: Or or any or sent or any of the others

612
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 5: who have sacrificed many things. And I think the show,

613
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 5: I think it comes back to sacrifice. Joelle, you put

614
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 5: it perfectly like the show is displaying on screen, like

615
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 5: the types of sacrifice big and small, personal and profound

616
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 5: that are necessary to get a rebellion against a machine

617
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 5: like the Empire off the ground and into a place

618
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 5: where you have a base on Yevin and can go

619
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 5: public and give a speech in front of the Senate.

620
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 5: And in order to get there, some folks like and

621
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 5: Or will sacrifice a lot. Some folks like the hotel

622
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 5: attendant will sacrifice in their own way, but everyone will

623
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 5: sacrifice something at.

624
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: Some level, what does Lucent say everything in his original speech,

625
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: and then again when Cassian visits him in appropriately in

626
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, breaking all the rules, he's like,

627
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: it's just everything, this is everything. So yeah, I do

628
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: think the show is kind of stating that, like it true,

629
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: rebellion is worth the risk of everything, But it's also

630
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: asking you to make some pretty intense decisions about like

631
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: where is that line? And it's sort of everywhere for

632
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: each individual, but it's different. Vermon is different from Kathy

633
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: into your point of boots. Rebellion looks different for a

634
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: lot of different people, but none of it is by

635
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: the wayside.

636
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 3: Well, I was just going to say, I think that.

637
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 9: In a.

638
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 2: Kind of zoomed out way, the difference between the empire

639
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 2: and the rebellion is this idea of these two systems.

640
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: One this idea of communal sacrifice for the greater good,

641
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 2: where here's a goal that must be achieved freedom and

642
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 2: for everyone in the galaxy, a return to a more

643
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 2: equal system, and that means I have to give up something.

644
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 2: And the imperial system, which is basically order at the

645
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 2: cost of you all out there bear the worst brunt

646
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 2: of everything, and we all inside the system benefit.

647
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 3: We pay none of the costs. We give up nothing.

648
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 2: We give up none of our security, we give up

649
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: none of our freedom, we give freedom within the system,

650
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 2: we give up none of our comforts, we give up

651
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: none of our luxury, and we put all the cost

652
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: of maintaining this on everybody who disagrees with us, and

653
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 2: everybody who.

654
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 3: Is outside this circle.

655
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 2: And I think, to me, that's kind of the at

656
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: the core the difference between these two ideas, Rosie, what

657
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 2: were you going to say?

658
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 4: Oh, that's real as hell, and it actually leads in

659
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 4: perfectly what I wanted to talk about is like, I

660
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 4: love this notion and we've talked about it a lot

661
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 4: in the group chat of like what does it take

662
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 4: to make a rebellion? And I think that these three

663
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 4: episodes really lean into that tension between like the scrappy

664
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 4: day one resistance like can we do it? And the

665
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 4: growing legitimate rebel alliance. We see it so we see

666
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 4: it with mon Mathma, we see it with and Or,

667
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 4: we see it with the big change that we will

668
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 4: get to talk about with Mod's speech. So how did

669
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 4: that hit for you, Joelle? Getting to see all these

670
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 4: different parts, the sacrifice, the clothes maker, that someone who

671
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 4: probably like dons your socks and somebody who makes a

672
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 4: Molotov cocktail, Like, what was it, Like, what spoke to

673
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 4: you about that aspect?

674
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: With these episodes, I think there's like no space where

675
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: this is more profound than just the singing of like

676
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: their national anthem on gorn exactly that part. I think

677
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: the like it leads right off from the speech the

678
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: the guy who started it from last week. You know,

679
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: they're at the table. He's like, hey, like, nothing else

680
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: matters except the fact that we're gorn. Like I don't

681
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: care if you're like launching bottles or or like if

682
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 1: you want to be throwing pedals, It doesn't matter to me.

683
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 1: We have to do it together. And I think sort

684
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: of seeing these like that entire group of extremely passionate

685
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: people who are just so determined to protect their community,

686
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: who feel that the only thing they have is their voice,

687
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: and watching them be snuffed out, like I think, like

688
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: it is genuinely like a chilly experience, and yet it's

689
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: also like the ways they come together at the end

690
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,479
Speaker 1: of that to escape try to protect each other from

691
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: the KT units when they come out, Like there's something

692
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 1: really profound about that And if you couple it with

693
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: going to the rebel base and seeing them like try

694
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: to keep Cassie and that there, like, yeah, you have

695
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: to follow orders. You're like, listen, you already know where

696
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: I stand. When you start telling me orders, I'm done

697
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: And they're like, gud, that time is coming whether you

698
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: like it or not, because we have to be organized,

699
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: which goes back to what Luther was saying last week

700
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: about you know, I need you to be thinking like

701
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: a leader, like further ahead. And what I what I

702
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 1: find really great about what these episodes have done is

703
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: they pushed every everybody had to be pushed to greatness

704
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: from a space of like desperation and that kind of

705
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: drive on your penultimate episode, odes, I mean really like

706
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: I feel on pins and needles waiting for next week's episodes,

707
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: especially because we know they're going to lead into directly

708
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: into Rogue one. Uh, you're kind of like we I

709
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,479
Speaker 1: know we're jumping a year, but like, what what's left?

710
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: Like who's here, who's gonna survive? We feel pretty confident

711
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: Luthn has been telling us he's gonna.

712
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 4: Die, Like, no spoilers, baby, it's happening. I'm dying.

713
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: Death is imminent for me, and so I think what

714
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 1: it has done seeing all these folks answer your question

715
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: is like it's made the rebellion more tactile. And I

716
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: think it's also burst open the world quite a lot

717
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 1: in that now when you revisit Star Wars, you're not

718
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,439
Speaker 1: even just looking for like it used to be. Okay,

719
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 1: you could be a pilot, you could be a Jedi,

720
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: you could be a Sith, or you could be part

721
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: of the like senate. Yeah, those are the wings you

722
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: could occupy. But now it's like you want to be

723
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: a hotel clerk because he was fine.

724
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 4: I feel like Disney ironically is solving a problem for

725
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 4: themselves with that, because if you recall the the ill

726
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 4: fated Galactic star Cruiser experiment, you know where you could

727
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 4: choose to be. They only really understood two different aspects

728
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 4: of the story, which was you can be on side

729
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 4: with Chewbacca or you can try and catch Chewbacca as

730
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 4: a Nazi, and you can dress up in these costumes.

731
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 4: And I think because for a lot of people, the

732
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 4: good bad notion of Star Wars is very clear and

733
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 4: has been very clear for a long time, that didn't

734
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 4: sit well. I think when it comes to immersing people

735
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 4: in options that they have kids who watch and or

736
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 4: I want to watch this show when I was ten,

737
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 4: Like I liked long I like long winded ass boring ship.

738
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 4: And I'm not saying that that's what this is, but

739
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 4: I'm saying like it er me up in a good way.

740
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 4: Aaron was like, wait a minute, ros I'm you Aaron,

741
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 4: whack them alling you call we get over the hype.

742
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 4: But like, I think the idea that like a kid

743
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 4: or a younger person watching this, or a fifty year

744
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 4: old person watching this who has never really thought outside

745
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 4: of like bad he's bad, and good he's good. I

746
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 4: think there's an incredible space where you could see yourself

747
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 4: in the hotel clerk. You could see yourself as the

748
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 4: person coming up the machine. That's always what Rogan did

749
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 4: well to me, and I think this expands that in

750
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 4: such an incredible way.

751
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 2: That's a great point, Rosie. I think a lot of

752
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: what we're responding to is like the the transition of

753
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 2: Star Wars from purely a spectator sport to the kind

754
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 2: of thing that you could imagine taking part in, you know,

755
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 2: beyond the kind of like childhood fantasy of like having

756
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 2: the force and I'm having a calling. Yeah, I'm glad

757
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 2: we're calling out the hotel clerk. And also, you know

758
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 2: we should call out the workers in the Senate House

759
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 2: who like were like I don't know where you know.

760
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 4: That made me like like fucking warm.

761
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 3: It's and it's the government first episode.

762
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 4: We don't know what happens to her. Did she die? Yes,

763
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 4: she made that choice to walk with and or and

764
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 4: she helped make this happen.

765
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: It's spanning.

766
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 2: It's this is really the first time in Star Wars

767
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 2: where in one selection of episodes or one self contained

768
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 2: bit of story, you can see the entire breath of

769
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 2: the rebellion from the grassroots people like the hotel clerk,

770
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: all the way up to General Draven mon Mathma. And

771
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 2: I mean, the other thing that's really notable about these

772
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 2: episodes is this is the final death of authentic senatorial

773
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: politics in the galaxy.

774
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: This is like the end.

775
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 2: This is the end of the illusion that the Senate

776
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 2: does anything, Like we're doing away with that now. It

777
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 2: doesn't do anything. It's just a figlely for the empire.

778
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: And the way this show connects that idea to the

779
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 2: kind of struggle that's going on within all of these

780
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: characters to decide to either go along with what's happening

781
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 2: or do the right thing.

782
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 3: Is is really profound. Let's take a quick break and

783
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 3: then we'll come back.

784
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 7: And we're back.

785
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the tensions now that are quite clear

786
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,280
Speaker 2: between these day one rebels as you put at rosy

787
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 2: Cassian and the rest and the kind of dispersed cells

788
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 2: saga eras you know upstart, he's got activists, that's resistance

789
00:43:53,160 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 2: activists and the now ascendant authentic rebellion of real politicians,

790
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 2: actual professional military people who are trying struggling to kind

791
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 2: of wrangle control from a bunch of folks who have,

792
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 2: buy necessity, been acting independently of any kind of outside control.

793
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 3: What were your How did that hit you? Aboo? How

794
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 3: did that hit you?

795
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 5: I was it was very satisfying for me to see

796
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 5: how organized things have become on yab and as a

797
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 5: as a type a person who loves a spreadsheet and

798
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 5: can't wait to color code things. Draven being like, you

799
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 5: got a log where.

800
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 3: This ship is going? Okay, did you submit the forms

801
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 3: or not?

802
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 5: I was like, yes, please, thank you. Someone is finally

803
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 5: saying it, and honestly, somebody like Cassian would be my

804
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 5: personal nightmare in the rebellion, you know, like and I'd

805
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 5: be like logging everything meticulously and everything would be color coded,

806
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 5: and then Cassian would just like go somewhere without telling

807
00:44:59,160 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 5: me and.

808
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 3: It and You'd be like that it would be like

809
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 3: an administrative.

810
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: Mess for me.

811
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 5: You know, Draven would be breathing down my neck. But

812
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 5: that tension I think is really lovely to see in

813
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 5: the show because we are seeing the transition, we are

814
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 5: seeing the growing pains that come with that. We're no

815
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 5: longer in the wild West phase of the rebellion, and

816
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 5: we are moving now into the more organized, formalized, and

817
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 5: very public rebellion that we can get entire planets. We

818
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 5: can convert entire planets to our side.

819
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 9: You know.

820
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 5: We no longer have to find the random spy hidden

821
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 5: away on a planet to hire and have have work

822
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 5: for Luthans.

823
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 3: We're past that stage.

824
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 5: So I really like seeing that tension. I also really

825
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 5: admired cashand for being like, fuck you, I've done so much,

826
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 5: Like you.

827
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 7: Don't need to tell me what to do.

828
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,479
Speaker 4: I think that's the most powerful shit is like these

829
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 4: are real no based on real life, but these are

830
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 4: real quandaries that people have about where their role is

831
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 4: in a rebellion, and also like what is the acceptable

832
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 4: face of a rebellion, and also like what counts as

833
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 4: self defense and what counts as terrorism? And I think

834
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 4: a lot of these questions are brought up in this

835
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 4: show in a way that does make it feel like

836
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 4: they were writing it yesterday. And I just honestly was

837
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 4: kind of blown away with that. It's kind of very

838
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 4: real to like the anarchists who may be at a protest,

839
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 4: who don't show their faces, who are willing to like

840
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 4: throw a brick or something, to the non profit versions

841
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 4: of activist groups that have to make it seem like, hey,

842
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 4: we want to work within the system we have. You know,

843
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 4: it's it's really, really.

844
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 5: Really And I think that structure that's a lovely point, Rosie,

845
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 5: because I think that structure is necessary to legitimize, legitimize

846
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 5: your cause, yes, and to legitimize the public face of

847
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 5: your cause. You will not convert a galaxy kind a

848
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 5: bunch of spies operating in small cells and Luthen having

849
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 5: like unchecked power.

850
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 3: I really loved the interaction.

851
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 5: Between Luthen and Mon, where Mon is like, I'm more

852
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 5: afraid of you right now than anyone else really, And

853
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 5: it's because luthen Can could never be the face of

854
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 5: this rebellion and someone like him and.

855
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 1: The rebellion can never exist. And yet full circle exactly.

856
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 5: And both of those things are true.

857
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 7: It's and I really liked very rare, very rare for.

858
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 4: A show to want to get into the the in depth,

859
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 4: like almost inside baseball workings of what it takes to

860
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 4: make a rebellion. And I think that's another reason why

861
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 4: it feels like so prescient.

862
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 2: I think another thing that was just really intriguing to

863
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 2: me about this episode is this is the first time

864
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 2: we see the rebellion start to craft a narrative, a

865
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 2: myth of its own existence in a way that you know,

866
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 2: I think, in other our worst properties you would associate

867
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 2: with imperial activity.

868
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 3: Here's the lie. It was our elite heroes of Gold

869
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 3: Squadron that.

870
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 2: Swept Mond off of Coruscant to safety. Now we know

871
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 2: from that's from the rebel ship, right.

872
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 5: And definitely didn't kill an innocent taxi driver that you know, definitely.

873
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 3: And had nothing saying because he was.

874
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 1: There's a moment though, where they cut back to him

875
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,439
Speaker 1: as he's listening to mon a moth of speech where

876
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 1: I couldn't quite tell if he was like, wait for real, Yeah,

877
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: wait is it We're the bad It almost look like

878
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: he was having a We're the Batties moment, but he

879
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 1: was also coiffeused and also it's way too late, like

880
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: size have been drawn. But it was interesting. Again, I

881
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: think just to see the humanity of people awakening to

882
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: what is real and what's puzzle. Yeah, like that throughout

883
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: the series of episodes was really palpable. It made it

884
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 1: feel like, oh, the rebellion is happening, yes, and I

885
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: think when you already know the timeline, like, that's a

886
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: really clever way to make it more alive for foobole.

887
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 4: Let's talk about that a little bit because we didn't

888
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 4: get into this in the recap, so basically we are

889
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 4: all Rebels stands. As you guys know, the animated series

890
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 4: Rebels one of the biggest kind of recon movements in

891
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 4: Star Wars that basically reintroduced people to the prequels and

892
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 4: set up a lot of stuff that we'd never seen

893
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 4: outside of the EU Expanded Universe novels. So there was

894
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 4: a lot of discussion in our group chat that's how

895
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 4: you know we were nerds. This was not even in

896
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 4: the discord. We're messaging each other and we're like, guys,

897
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 4: so what does this mean for the canon because mon

898
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 4: Mathma made a different speech. So in Entertainment Weekly, that's

899
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 4: how Big Star Wars is now, this is where the

900
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:56,919
Speaker 4: scoops are going. Tony Gilroy basically explained the change and said,

901
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 4: we are hijacking Cannon. In Cannon, she is rescued by

902
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 4: the Gold Squadron and the speech that they gave in

903
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 4: the cartoon, which was a canonical show, is on that ship.

904
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 4: And his brother Danny was like, do I have to

905
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 4: stick to this fucking speech as it that's a direct quote.

906
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 4: As it turns out, they found a way that they

907
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 4: didn't have to, which is basically the conclusion we came

908
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 4: to in our group chat was basically like Cassian does

909
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 4: his rescue, she does the speech, evades Bale's corrupted squadron,

910
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 4: he delivers them to the safe house, but their Gold

911
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 4: Squadron pick her up as they hinted, and she does

912
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 4: the speech that we see in Rebels.

913
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 3: Right from the ship. From the ship, and so she does.

914
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 4: Make that speech, it's just not the speech which I

915
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 4: think is very interesting in this show because they have

916
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 4: also done that with the Gorman Massacre, which in Expanded

917
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 4: Universe was a talking massacre that had happened for a

918
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 4: long time and was kind of referenced. But what they

919
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 4: did with this is they now have two Gorman massacres,

920
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 4: and the one that everyone says is the one that

921
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 4: sparked the rebellion is no longer talking, you know, landing

922
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 4: on a bunch of people. It is now this version

923
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 4: that we've seen an Andle. I think the way they're

924
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 4: able to build in those moments is so fucking great,

925
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 4: and so what we loved about Rogue one and the

926
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 4: fact that they're able to do it in a way

927
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 4: that's still respectful to the cartoon which did so much work,

928
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 4: but also you know, makes sense within the law that

929
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 4: Tony Gilroy is building here where kind of everything that

930
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 4: you think you know about the original Star Wars movies

931
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 4: is fake, Like there's a whole different layer to it.

932
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 2: The thing I love about the way that Rebels episode

933
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 2: Secret Cargo works together with this story with and Or

934
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 2: is I now perceive the Rebels episode to be like

935
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 2: the propaganda version.

936
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 4: Yes, that's powerful, and I.

937
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 2: Guess what I wanted to get at is this is

938
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 2: another decision that to me, the leaders of the rebellion

939
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,280
Speaker 2: I assume, have to take in full humility.

940
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 3: When do we lie?

941
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 2: The empire lies? The Empire is lying about everything. The

942
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 2: Empire is lying about Gorman. The Empire is lying, you know,

943
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 2: about what they're doing on Gorman, about who started the

944
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 2: mask or etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And you could spread that

945
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 2: out across the galaxy. When is it okay? And I

946
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 2: think this is okay? What the what the what the

947
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: rebels have done? But I but it's not a decision

948
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 2: to be taken lightly. When is it okay to say,

949
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 2: you know what, let's lie.

950
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 3: Here because.

951
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 2: We need to do this in order to bring people

952
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 2: to our cause, to make us look more legitimate than

953
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 2: maybe we actually are at the moment? How did how

954
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 2: did you think about that decision? And how do you

955
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 2: think about it?

956
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: Listen, Jason, not everyone watches c SPAN and when a

957
00:52:54,600 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: message out in a quick, edible way like like Squadron, Yeah,

958
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,280
Speaker 1: saved man Mathma.

959
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:06,280
Speaker 4: And they are a great rebellions.

960
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 1: We saved her life. Okay, we don't like what's good?

961
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: And so I think like choosing a narrative that is

962
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: easy to spread, quick to digest, and clearly it's true,

963
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: is the message and point.

964
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 4: The true being like, hey, this guy just walked around

965
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 4: shooting a bunch of people.

966
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 3: And it's like at least fifty Like it's not.

967
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: No one needs to know we would have let Ma

968
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: Mathma die because we were too busy debating about should

969
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 1: we send Cassie and out or not. No one needs

970
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 1: to know what happens is we saved her. That's the

971
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: message going for it. So yeah, it was. What was

972
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: interesting to me, the most interesting is it's an echo

973
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 1: of what is and Or's future. Right, Andrew is going

974
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: to die without anyone knowing what he has sacrificed and

975
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: done to get to this point, and so it's interesting

976
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: to see how he accepts that, right, because you don't get.

977
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: All he get is that hug at the end, which

978
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: is so beautiful and and like, while what a declaration

979
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: of like love and reliance, whether it's romantic or not,

980
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: there's clearly a I see you between the two of

981
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: them in that moment. So that's really great. But here

982
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: we get she says, I don't know how to thank

983
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: you for what you've done. We don't know how to

984
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:21,959
Speaker 1: thank Cassie and for what he's given us, and he says,

985
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: just make it worth and it settles something in you

986
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 1: about his eventuality. And I think that's very nice Dan

987
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: to give us, to be like, he's okay with this outcome.

988
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 1: This is what almost what he expects, and I think

989
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 1: that's really lovely.

990
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 4: I agree, And before we jump to an ad break

991
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 4: and then introduce our regular hate section with Aaron the

992
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 4: Joelle talk a little bit about how that connects to

993
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 4: the Force and the use of the Force in this

994
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 4: show and specifically in these episodes.

995
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: As a long time Star Wars fan, I was also

996
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: a very a huge fan of the Great Jedi. We

997
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 1: don't have to go into all the war. All you

998
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: need to know is there were people who were in

999
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,479
Speaker 1: the middle. There were people who were in the middle.

1000
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: They were in Jedies. They were said that they were

1001
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 1: in the middle.

1002
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 4: It's not canon. Don't worry. We've been told many times,

1003
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,879
Speaker 4: but I don't care.

1004
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: I love it. And then uh, in Rebels, you get

1005
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 1: is it bought? Oh fuck? Why can't remember the giant

1006
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: guy's name? The monster dude. It'll come to me later.

1007
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: Doesn't ben do think new story with the be So

1008
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 1: then you get Bendu, who who has really profound things

1009
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 1: to say about you know, how the force disorder for everyone,

1010
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: and if you only see the good evil, you're missing

1011
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: the bigger picture. Okay, we get a lunch lady who

1012
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 1: can use a bit of power, not just to heal,

1013
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:55,959
Speaker 1: but to sort of see the future. I've been watching

1014
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 1: the prequels for a project I'm working on. This is

1015
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: a little bit, a little bit Anakin's power. He doesn't

1016
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: know what he's seeing, but he's seeing something that he

1017
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: knows to be true.

1018
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 4: Very alphabe coded.

1019
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 1: Absolutely as say listen, listen. This is the limitation of magic.

1020
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 1: It's why we get to use it in stories.

1021
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 5: And so I.

1022
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: I think to have this woman represent in such an

1023
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: almost casual way, like it's really it's it's so casual

1024
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: how they introduce her. It's it's, hey, there's a healer

1025
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 1: down here at your shoulders, not healing, I just want

1026
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: you to be better. And he's so terrified of anything

1027
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 1: that looks like faith. Again, another great insight insight into Cassian.

1028
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: Cassian believes what he can do, he knows what he

1029
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: can make real and that's his reality, and so to

1030
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: interject anything outside of that is genuinely terrifying for him.

1031
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 1: I think this is the cruxt of faith as it

1032
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 1: exists in our world, whether you believe in it in

1033
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:06,720
Speaker 1: anything or not. What you can know is the impact

1034
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: of people who have faith, right, the impact of faith

1035
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 1: on people who do possess it, And to see it

1036
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: in Bis in this way, this beautiful, beautiful way of

1037
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: her being like, Hey, I'm feeling and seeing and understanding

1038
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: that your role in this, this cause I believe in

1039
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: is so important. I cannot be a distraction to you.

1040
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 1: And she does it completely on faith. I mean, it's

1041
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: the action of faith to say I have no idea

1042
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen to you, and I don't know what's

1043
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 1: gonna happen to me. But in order for you to

1044
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: focus on what I know to be good and true

1045
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: and right, I have to leave you. I couldn't believe because,

1046
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: I mean, this whole time, I've been afraid they were

1047
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 1: just gonna kill Bicks. I thought she's dead. We know

1048
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: he sacrifices everything, but the sacrifice was not one of death.

1049
00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: It was a choice to give you space and time

1050
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: to do the job you were put on this earth

1051
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 1: to do. The Force being more than just a magical

1052
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: power the ability to bring us spoon to yourself from

1053
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 1: across the room, but to be something that you not

1054
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: just inertily feel, but that you trust and depend on

1055
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: without any kind of proof.

1056
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 4: Wow.

1057
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: Wow, I feel like the Force is always being explained

1058
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: to us. There's Medchlorians. There's always been this real push

1059
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: to be like, this is what the Force is, and

1060
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: we're really defining to just let us lay back in

1061
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: the cut and feel it and experience it with two

1062
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: people who we deeply love, where this decision hurts us,

1063
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 1: but we also ultimately know it's the right one, Like

1064
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 1: that is the profound use of your pen to bring

1065
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 1: and and it's the lynchpin. This is what makes this

1066
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: show star Wars.

1067
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 5: This is it.

1068
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: If you ever were watching Cassie Andor and you were like,

1069
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: this doesn't feel quite like Star Wars. It's got the

1070
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: Star Wars background, but this is it. You can't it

1071
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: can't be argued anymore. It's Star Wars, and it's so

1072
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 1: firmly rooted in the legacy and Lord that we love

1073
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: while also pushing it forward and growling it up I'm amazed.

1074
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: I'm amazed at what they were able to do.

1075
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 4: What do you think about the lack of force or

1076
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 4: the kind of way Forth is portrayed in the show?

1077
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 4: How did that hit you?

1078
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 5: I really don't want to follow up what Joelle just

1079
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 5: puts so beautifully, so I will just say here here

1080
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 5: I agree completely.

1081
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, it's puff.

1082
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 5: That was incredibly well put.

1083
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 2: I want to quickly return to the to the idea

1084
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 2: about lying for what you believe in which the rebellion

1085
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 2: is doing here with their propaganda campaign to make a

1086
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 2: gold Squadron the acceptable face of rebellion, understanding that like

1087
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 2: it's either Cassian Saw or the heroes of Gold Squadron,

1088
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 2: and we have to go with Gold Squadron because it's

1089
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 2: something I've been thinking about too, you know, as I

1090
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 2: understand that this is a show disconnected from all events, but.

1091
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 3: As you as you know, unless that's six thous as

1092
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 3: I watch.

1093
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 2: Establishment politicians like who I would ostensibly vote for usually and.

1094
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 3: Normal times kind of cut away from.

1095
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 2: Minority community after a community because like it doesn't poll well,

1096
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 2: or because like it doesn't Hey, it looks like we

1097
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 2: lost that argument with like mainstream America. I've increasingly wondered,

1098
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 2: like why not lie about it? You know, like, yeah,

1099
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 2: if you believe in something, and if you come to

1100
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 2: the you know, I'm talking for me personally, like to

1101
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,439
Speaker 2: come to a place where like, Okay, I've I've looked

1102
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 2: at it, I've studied my heart, my feelings. I think

1103
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 2: that supporting this group of people is right. And if

1104
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 2: the whole world, or a majority of the world, or

1105
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 2: at least the portion of the world that is in power,

1106
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 2: says you can't do that, then why not lie about it?

1107
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 2: That's why I found this decision to be to you know,

1108
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 2: bury the scrappy, upstart face of the rebellion in favor

1109
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 2: of the more acceptable story that we can prepackage and

1110
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 2: sell to the galaxy in order to hopefully win and

1111
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 2: defeat this evil empire. I found it really affecting because

1112
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 2: I think it's it is you know, it's something I

1113
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 2: think about, like, if you truly believe you're right about something,

1114
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 2: and telling a lie is how you get there. It's

1115
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 2: not your first choice, but you kind of should do it,

1116
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 2: even though it's it's not well by by the by

1117
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 2: the letter of the law what you should be doing.

1118
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, generally I agree but just to hypothetically play

1119
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 5: the devil's advocate.

1120
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 2: I do.

1121
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 5: Worry that that's a slippery slope because sure, Cassine, Cassine

1122
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 5: is maybe one skeleton you can put and say, okay,

1123
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:57,439
Speaker 5: but how many closets do you continue to put away

1124
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 5: in your closet before before you are just the empire?

1125
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 5: Because the Empire, that's that's the best right the same way,

1126
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 5: we believe we're doing the right thing and we just

1127
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 5: have to get the messaging right. So what if we

1128
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 5: have to lie a little bit along the way, like

1129
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 5: just why about Gorman?

1130
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 2: You know, like that's why that's I mean, I completely

1131
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 2: agree with you, which is why, you know, when we're

1132
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 2: talking about Dedra and Cyril and talking about this, I

1133
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 2: try to stress like humility because I look at Cyril

1134
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 2: and Dedra and I go, that could easily be any

1135
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 2: of our heroes if things had been a little bit different,

1136
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 2: if they had been a little bit less curious.

1137
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 4: If you were orphaned, and instead of Marv finding you,

1138
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 4: the Empire finds you, which is what happened to Dedra.

1139
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 4: So there's that's reflection there. I also think that you

1140
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 4: hit on a really interesting and complex point, Jason, because

1141
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 4: the reality is as is in real life and is

1142
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 4: in this show that's not connected to real life. The

1143
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 4: other side is already lying, like extensively to get what

1144
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 4: they want done. And I boo, I think you're completely right.

1145
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 4: The question is how many times can you lie or

1146
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 4: how many times can you tell your version of the

1147
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 4: truth before that slippery slope where suddenly forced.

1148
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: To use the tools of my oppressor exactly a thousand.

1149
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and it's either and it's lies in the

1150
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 2: kind of abstract sense in this episode, and it's also

1151
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 2: in the very concrete sense reawakening K two s O

1152
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 2: as a tool for rebellion.

1153
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I calm believe we didn't even talk about him.

1154
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 2: We don't get I think we'll get to talk about

1155
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 2: him more and upcoming around tables at least.

1156
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 4: That's the.

1157
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break and sound the imperial claxon

1158
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 2: because the Emperor's shuttle is landing.

1159
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 4: And they're letting him out and he's here. He's gonna

1160
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 4: be after the break, so.

1161
01:03:54,840 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 10: Listen after the break, Yeah, okay, and we're rack bomb bomb.

1162
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 3: Bum bum bum bum bum.

1163
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 4: He's doing his hair, he's stretching, he's ready to tell

1164
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 4: us this show is not as good as you think

1165
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 4: it is, and we want to hear about it.

1166
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 3: Aaron Emperor is coming here.

1167
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 8: Team Yeah, Look, I love these three episodes of the

1168
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 8: Book of Boba Fat. I'm sorry, sorry, and or and

1169
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 8: or season two not.

1170
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 7: I guess up sometime you want to get told off.

1171
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 8: But I do think there's there's something before we start

1172
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 8: we're talking about the show that just reminds me a

1173
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 8: lot of talking about sports teams, and Jason, you'll you'll

1174
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 8: know this, especially right now. You know you have a game,

1175
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 8: you have the Thunder losing to the to the Nuggets,

1176
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 8: and fans of the Under are going to say, don't worry,

1177
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 8: that was a weird game.

1178
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 7: They're going to come back from it.

1179
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 8: Fans of the Nuggets are going to say, no way,

1180
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 8: like you guys couldn't stop Jokic and like we had

1181
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 8: bad games from other players.

1182
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 7: It's over.

1183
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 8: And then you you talk yourself into whatever argument you want.

1184
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 8: And I think we're kind of in this place where

1185
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 8: the four of you love Rogue One, you love the

1186
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 8: first season of this show, and there's a lot of things,

1187
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 8: there's a lot of things that I think you are

1188
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 8: forgiving in this show. You don't forgive an other shows

1189
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 8: for instance. Okay, first of all, I just want to

1190
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 8: ask is the show helped or hurt by the fact

1191
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 8: that it is Star Wars. I know, you just went

1192
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,959
Speaker 8: on this long monologue about the Force. I personally seeing

1193
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 8: the X Wings go and the tie Fighters that was cool.

1194
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 8: I loved when the X Wings are in that opening

1195
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 8: shot in the seven and the Tie Fighters going overhead

1196
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 8: the plaza in Gorman like that was very menacing. The

1197
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 8: Force Healer did nothing for me. I thought it was wild.

1198
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 3: You are forced.

1199
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,439
Speaker 4: Hey, you know what, this doesn't surprise me. This done

1200
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 4: dun dun, dun sur me Because Aaron, you don't like

1201
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 4: Grogue one, right, which is fine, that's your prerogative, but

1202
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 4: that has one of the most nuanced, unbelievable explorations of

1203
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 4: what is the Force? Who gets to be a Force user?

1204
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:21,479
Speaker 1: Is the Force?

1205
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 4: Just blind faith? And so if you don't like Grogue,

1206
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 4: you probably don't like this part of the Force, which

1207
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 4: I do think worked for me. But also I would

1208
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 4: say generally, I think it is helped by being a

1209
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 4: Star War because one, this is the best thing you

1210
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 4: can do with an ip is to make it something

1211
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 4: that makes people engage with stories in a way they

1212
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 4: haven't before. It's what they did with Watchmen, which was

1213
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 4: an unbelievably complex situation when it came to adapting it,

1214
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 4: but they made something that expanded the world and got

1215
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:56,919
Speaker 4: a ton of different people to watch it to learn

1216
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 4: about historical things that really really happened and that a

1217
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 4: lot of Americans did not know. And I think that

1218
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 4: right now it being Star Wars helps because I think

1219
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 4: the ships and the pupew and the Stormtroopers get people

1220
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 4: in and then hopefully they can learn something from it.

1221
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 4: Coming up a machine, the importance of like allowing somebody

1222
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 4: to grow on their own. So I think it I

1223
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 4: think it is helped by being Star Wars because it would.

1224
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 8: Never have gotten It is helping because it's Star Wars

1225
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 8: and we see Stormtroopers and we're like, yeah, I can

1226
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 8: get into that. Or is it hurt by the fact

1227
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 8: that we have a side plot featuring Sagarera, who I

1228
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 8: hated in Row one and I hate here and Saw

1229
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 8: and Will goes to hang out with Saw and then

1230
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 8: he comes back and he's basically the same, except he's more.

1231
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 7: Loyal to losing.

1232
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 4: No no, no, I saw this. I saw this lie

1233
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 4: that you put in the disco Will Will is still

1234
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 4: hopping the rideo bro. You don't need to see it

1235
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 4: because that motherfucker looking fuss.

1236
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 7: Okay, So this is another conversation here.

1237
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 8: You all have forgiven everything that happens offscreen in this

1238
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 8: show in a way you don't in other things.

1239
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 7: So many things are being done on screen.

1240
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:06,959
Speaker 1: The show.

1241
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 3: I will just say that that is like a very

1242
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 3: circular argument.

1243
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 8: To me.

1244
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 2: It's like saying, well, you like you hate boiled chicken,

1245
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:16,800
Speaker 2: but you love fried chicken.

1246
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1247
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 3: Like, I like stories when they're good, and this is

1248
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:22,519
Speaker 3: a good one.

1249
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:30,679
Speaker 9: And does this story contain elements where in other less

1250
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 9: well executed stories, I go, that's boring, that stupid.

1251
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 2: Nothing so but of course, of course, but I just

1252
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 2: feel like this is a well done story and a

1253
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 2: very you know, like this is a high degree of difficulty,

1254
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:48,919
Speaker 2: and is it made easier more palatable? Does the medicine

1255
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:51,560
Speaker 2: go down smoother because it star wars? Of course, but

1256
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:55,639
Speaker 2: still this is to me a really well done tail,

1257
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 2: really exceptionally well done.

1258
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:00,600
Speaker 1: I also think the structure allows for you you like,

1259
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:03,640
Speaker 1: whereas sometimes like the show is continuous, I don't want

1260
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 1: to have to guess at things. The time that you've

1261
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:07,800
Speaker 1: spent and the time that you're showing me. You should

1262
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 1: have highlighted that. But when you have year gaps and

1263
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 1: you're only spending three days, the structure sort of lends

1264
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:14,600
Speaker 1: itself to allowing you to sort of have that lean in.

1265
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 7: So I'm okay.

1266
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 8: If they chose this structure, it wasn't mandated by law.

1267
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 8: They don't get bonus points.

1268
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:24,799
Speaker 7: Shows everything you don't.

1269
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 3: Show because the structure.

1270
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 4: You pitch your structure, and the structure looks, then that's good.

1271
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 2: If you pitch your your take would be, your take

1272
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 2: would be, it would be better if it was like

1273
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:41,640
Speaker 2: the seven days leading up to mon Mathma's speech.

1274
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:46,560
Speaker 8: No take would be that would be good to me.

1275
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 8: Let's not make this be three day packets all at once. Now,

1276
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 8: this three day packet is incredibly important and I loved,

1277
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 8: so I will okay. Episode eight I like was in shock.

1278
01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:00,320
Speaker 8: I loved episode e. I texted you a joke that

1279
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:02,120
Speaker 8: I loved it. It gave it an a plus because

1280
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:04,560
Speaker 8: of the little clacks and handheld devices.

1281
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:06,640
Speaker 7: Those are amazing. I was all in on that.

1282
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 8: You give me a funny musical instrument, and I'm in

1283
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 8: But I just think that the brutal adherence to three

1284
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 8: days and then nothing and then three days is a

1285
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 8: little silly along the lines of things that are solved

1286
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 8: off screen. Daredevil, Born Again, Flawed Show, Not Perfect. We

1287
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:27,839
Speaker 8: all talked about how Muse shows up as this incredible

1288
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:30,799
Speaker 8: hand to hand fighter, and it's like, oh wow, okay,

1289
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 8: I guess like we just handwave that he had a

1290
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:38,639
Speaker 8: taekwondo instructor. Here Cyril goes from Cyril's like number one

1291
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:41,599
Speaker 8: image is him lying face down on the bed because

1292
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 8: his mommy was mean to him, and now all of

1293
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 8: a sudden he's hand to hand beaten the shit.

1294
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:48,759
Speaker 7: At a cassion, I think.

1295
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 1: That this is not an organized fight. If he had

1296
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 1: a bombing ring and he was like dodging and weaving,

1297
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:56,880
Speaker 1: that I would agree with you. There these hands, You're right,

1298
01:10:56,920 --> 01:10:59,560
Speaker 1: You're right. Because and Or was not focused hand or

1299
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 1: he is, he was not in the battle.

1300
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 8: He was totally confused and shocked, and and Siril was

1301
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 8: the one that was really on top of Oh wait

1302
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:08,719
Speaker 8: around at.

1303
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 1: You in a rage air. I was gonna say, matter

1304
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 1: how skilled they are, you are going to have to

1305
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,680
Speaker 1: like you're gonna livet and Cassian is not, from what

1306
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: we've seen, an amazing like hand to hand fighter. He's

1307
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,599
Speaker 1: a spy, he's hide and he's Duckey's even he's shooting.

1308
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,120
Speaker 1: We don't know what kind of hands Cassian has already

1309
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 1: don't seem like in a life where you had to

1310
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 1: grow up and learn how to fight. I'm fine with this.

1311
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 3: What what's the Sagarera issue?

1312
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 8: I just I thought Saw in Rogue one, I was

1313
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 8: just in a different movie and they didn't do it

1314
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 8: for me, and he didn't do it for me. Last batch,

1315
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 8: I felt like that was this show has taken people

1316
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 8: and put the and bench them in weird spots like

1317
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 8: I think in the first batch, Cassian being on Yavin

1318
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 8: with the poorly assembled rebels was something I didn't need.

1319
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 8: I understand it shows that like rebel certaincies are not

1320
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 8: perfect on day one and there's infighting in there are issues,

1321
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 8: but it tells that in other ways throughout the story.

1322
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 8: I didn't need Cassian on that planet. It just felt

1323
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 8: like we need to delay him getting home to Bix

1324
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 8: and said we're gonna do it this way Saw like

1325
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:16,719
Speaker 8: Will being Withsaw.

1326
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:19,840
Speaker 7: I just didn't I didn't need it, dude, Aaron have you.

1327
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 4: Ever considered being a movie exactly because I feel like

1328
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 4: you'd be given these notes and you're just mad, like

1329
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:27,080
Speaker 4: I don't get it.

1330
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:34,679
Speaker 8: Start and then and my final thing about this episode is, wow,

1331
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 8: they really did bigs dirty. Tell me, like, what a

1332
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 8: lazy way to get her out of this her entire

1333
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:46,360
Speaker 8: art she is literally.

1334
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 4: Just accepting that she needs a bat at Chilla life

1335
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:50,519
Speaker 4: and the and or couldnot be.

1336
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 7: A part of it.

1337
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 4: She's like, I'm out.

1338
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 8: Bix's entire role in this season is to move along

1339
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 8: Cassian's plot. What are the monumental things that she does?

1340
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:04,920
Speaker 8: She uh uh, she reads Luthen when he comes over

1341
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 8: one time. Oh wow, that's amazing. The second thing she

1342
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 8: does is she takes Cassian into the Force Healer. The

1343
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:14,680
Speaker 8: third thing is Cassian leaves, and she's like, I will

1344
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:16,800
Speaker 8: stay and talk to the Force Healer a little longer,

1345
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:20,839
Speaker 8: and then she willingly takes herself out so that Cassian

1346
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 8: will stay in the rebellion.

1347
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 3: Oh.

1348
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 8: She also she did talk to Belle very briefly about Cassian, like.

1349
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 1: Looking in surviving is not nothing. You have an addiction

1350
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: after being nearly being tortured, nearly killed, nearly raped, like

1351
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 1: run having to flee your home. What she did was

1352
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 1: survive and that's not a small thing, and it's a

1353
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 1: really challenging thing to do. And she did it not

1354
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:47,360
Speaker 1: in a small way.

1355
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 8: She does it in a way like a big way

1356
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 8: to move Cassian's plot for it. It's very important.

1357
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 4: It's no, no, no, no, no no.

1358
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:57,720
Speaker 1: That's not about Cassian's plot at all. Like nothing that

1359
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 1: she does, it's about pushing Cassian forward. Everything she does,

1360
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:04,479
Speaker 1: you should do that makes Cassie. You can make cassim

1361
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 1: I will.

1362
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 2: From a structural point of view, he's continuously being taken

1363
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:16,559
Speaker 2: away from her, moving him in a direction, like everything

1364
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:22,400
Speaker 2: that happens between them is him very reluctantly separating from her,

1365
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 2: like her moving his plot along would be okay, you know,

1366
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 2: now he has to go on the Bix mission or

1367
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 2: do the Bix thing, and that really does just that

1368
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:32,920
Speaker 2: never happens.

1369
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:36,080
Speaker 3: But I like, I'm not invalidating your perspective.

1370
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:38,639
Speaker 4: Yes, your perspective is valid. But what I love most

1371
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,360
Speaker 4: about this is that before we came on to record this,

1372
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 4: you were like, Adria, she's gonna get an Emmy.

1373
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:47,599
Speaker 7: So you're like, you think I was joking because they

1374
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 7: give her.

1375
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:53,599
Speaker 2: Just say one Let me just say one thing, because

1376
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 2: this is d That's something I've noticed. This is something

1377
01:14:56,640 --> 01:15:00,560
Speaker 2: I've noticed from various critiques of various shows, shows with

1378
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:02,960
Speaker 2: large casts, as and Ord has.

1379
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:09,720
Speaker 3: And I It's it's kind of like the the critical.

1380
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 2: Version of like a participation trophy, this idea that every

1381
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 2: single character in every show has to have this like

1382
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:23,800
Speaker 2: heroic ride into the sunset, like we go to Valhalla arc.

1383
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:29,640
Speaker 2: When to me it's like, does the story work like

1384
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 2: you can put yeah, I can pick things out.

1385
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 3: Did I want to know more about like this character?

1386
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 4: Yeah? Sure?

1387
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 3: But like does to me it's like does the tapestry work?

1388
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:37,680
Speaker 2: Not?

1389
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 3: Do I want more from one particular character or not?

1390
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 4: I also think that ironically, I mean, what Aaron is

1391
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:50,280
Speaker 4: calling out is like a systemic issue within all storytellings

1392
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 4: there are women. But what I will say, I think

1393
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:56,240
Speaker 4: that what makes this different, and this is important, she

1394
01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:59,519
Speaker 4: is not the only woman. There are multiple different versions

1395
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 4: of how men are living in the rebellion. On mamm

1396
01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 4: Mathma's daughter, you also have a Dina who we now see.

1397
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:11,919
Speaker 4: I think that where the onus of representation on characters.

1398
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 4: I think that Bix gets to just survive and be

1399
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 4: like I'm leaving because she she's lived the world and

1400
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:20,080
Speaker 4: she's not the only woman in the story. So I

1401
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 4: don't think it's like she doesn't feel to me as

1402
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:25,040
Speaker 4: someone who is like the real you know what, the

1403
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 4: real truth is if they wanted to push Cassian along,

1404
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,840
Speaker 4: they would have just killed her. That's the classic Fridging way.

1405
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 4: I think this way, she's actually doing the opposite of

1406
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:37,400
Speaker 4: what Cassian wants, which could tear him away from the

1407
01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 4: rebellion as it is, because now he has to make

1408
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:44,639
Speaker 4: that choice, you know. So I think that I think

1409
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:49,600
Speaker 4: that I understand your critique, but I also don't necessarily

1410
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:49,960
Speaker 4: see it in.

1411
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:52,200
Speaker 8: The same I mean, the show has incredible women. I

1412
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 8: mean Claire mon Mathma. I love Clayre's evolution into the set,

1413
01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 8: like the long hair and suddenly she's not just like

1414
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 8: hiding behind Luthen and she's like doing stuff.

1415
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:07,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, people are like, is claar like secretly like a sith?

1416
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:09,679
Speaker 3: Like what is up with this sick dri.

1417
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:15,600
Speaker 1: Like she came out long enough. She yes, I know

1418
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:16,320
Speaker 1: how to dress.

1419
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 7: She's like, this is the role of two me and Mike.

1420
01:17:19,439 --> 01:17:22,840
Speaker 4: It's like looking looking cool as hell. Okay, Aaron best

1421
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:25,120
Speaker 4: you did mention, And I think this is important because

1422
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:26,599
Speaker 4: it is fun to be a hater and we all

1423
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 4: love to hate on stuff. But you mentioned the episode

1424
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 4: eight was good for you, so could you talk a

1425
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:32,800
Speaker 4: little bit about what worked and why it stood out someone?

1426
01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:37,680
Speaker 8: Episode eight turned my emotion on immediately and ratcheted up

1427
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:41,000
Speaker 8: the entire time. This episode built in a way that

1428
01:17:41,320 --> 01:17:47,880
Speaker 8: I was not expecting, Like I felt like this, this insurrection,

1429
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:51,920
Speaker 8: this rebellion, this riot, this massacre is happening. The use

1430
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:55,120
Speaker 8: of the chanting, the use of then transitioning that to

1431
01:17:55,280 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 8: singing again, like the the fucking sound of every single

1432
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:02,880
Speaker 8: shot that's made in the very beginning, when the K

1433
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:05,920
Speaker 8: two droids come out and kick the fucking stanchion into

1434
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:10,719
Speaker 8: the first person like it. Eight was incredible, and nine

1435
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:13,920
Speaker 8: does that in a similar way, but not in a

1436
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:17,120
Speaker 8: physical warfare way, but with this political although I do.

1437
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 8: It's one of my notes, one of my notes for nine.

1438
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 8: There is my note for nine is how much it

1439
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:23,479
Speaker 8: must suck to be the people in the Senate on

1440
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:25,720
Speaker 8: the bottom row where you're just looking up at the

1441
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:32,479
Speaker 8: Senate seats above you the entire time in your Yes

1442
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 8: the Street episode seven, eight and nine are amazing.

1443
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 7: I loved them.

1444
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:40,000
Speaker 8: I just want to you know, I just want to

1445
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:41,560
Speaker 8: come in here and make sure that we're not like

1446
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 8: giving this show a free pass on everything.

1447
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,599
Speaker 3: I remind me. You remind me of my friends.

1448
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:51,639
Speaker 2: You remind me of my friend's dad whose favorite show

1449
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 2: is Breaking Bad, but he rewatches Breaking Bad by fast

1450
01:18:55,520 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 2: forwarding all the domestic scenes and only watching the shoot incredible.

1451
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 1: Beha, I do Skyler blah blah blah.

1452
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:12,360
Speaker 7: I have been known to flight. I will watch Pacific

1453
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:14,439
Speaker 7: rim and just fast forward to the monster fights. So

1454
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:15,960
Speaker 7: that is that checks out.

1455
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 4: Basically, Aaron is just setting himself up for his inevitable

1456
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 4: tofah grace style and or super Just like that's it.

1457
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 7: Like, what did we need the rest of it for?

1458
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:37,720
Speaker 4: Well, honestly, I will say they said it was like

1459
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:39,599
Speaker 4: a movie, and us Joel said, one of the best

1460
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:42,120
Speaker 4: Do Wars movies we've ever seen is these three chapters.

1461
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Emperor Aaron, it was delightful to have you

1462
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:50,760
Speaker 2: with us, the super producers of Boo and Joel as

1463
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:53,559
Speaker 2: well as always delightful to hear your perspectives. Coming up

1464
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:56,280
Speaker 2: on Extra Vision on Tuesday, we're diving into the last

1465
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:59,200
Speaker 2: of US episode five. On Wednesday, we have a recaps

1466
01:19:59,280 --> 01:20:02,679
Speaker 2: of the series finale episodes of Landor, and of course

1467
01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:06,679
Speaker 2: we returned to the roundtable on Friday for our deeper

1468
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:07,880
Speaker 2: reactions and conversations.

1469
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 4: Will Aaron who.

1470
01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:14,600
Speaker 1: Knows for this episode.

1471
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:15,799
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.

1472
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 2: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason steps Young and

1473
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:26,639
Speaker 2: Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcast.

1474
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:30,599
Speaker 4: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.

1475
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:32,920
Speaker 3: Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.

1476
01:20:33,280 --> 01:20:37,240
Speaker 4: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Fay Wax.

1477
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:40,120
Speaker 2: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

1478
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:41,439
Speaker 2: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

1479
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 4: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and

1480
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 4: Heidi our Discord moderate them