WEBVTT - One in Six | Stacey's Story 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:05.400 On this episode of Betrayal, you're going to meet a 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:09.320 survivor of male sexual assault. It's a Hollywood actor. Many 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:13.640 of us have an infinity for Anthony Edwards. If you 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.560 watched er in the nineteen nineties or early two thousands, 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:19.000 then you might have known him as doctor Mark Green, 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.960 and before that as Goose in the iconic film Top Gun. 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:28.520 Pure unadulterated rage, anger that I had never felt before. 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:30.960 I wanted to take out a full page ad and 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.159 Variety and say, you know, doctor Green and Goose was 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:51.040 assaulted by this man, and have a wanted picture of him. 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.960 I'm under a gunning. This is Betrayal, season three, episode 0:00:54.960 --> 0:01:02.920 seven one and six. Justin Rutherford's betrayal of Tyler, his wife, Stacy, 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:05.720 and family opened my eyes to a whole new community. 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:08.800 It's men who are sexually abused and are carrying the 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:13.880 trauma into adulthood. They are husbands, sons, brothers, fathers, and friends, 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:18.279 and they have been largely silent and hurting. Some like Tyler, 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.560 are seeking a community. It's something he expressed in an 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:22.760 earlier episode. 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:27.720 There's no one that relates to you. You hit YouTube 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:31.760 or Google and you know you're searching self help videos 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:36.880 or stuff related to your trauma, and you're scrolling there's 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:38.560 not a lot of resources out there. 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:41.800 We found a resource that we thought Tyler should know about. 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.360 It's called one and six, an organization which helps male 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:50.160 survivors through providing information and support resources, and the name 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.360 denotes what research has shown that one in six men 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.640 have experienced sexual abuse or assault, whether in childhood or 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:00.880 as adults. So we arranged a meeting with the heads 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:04.400 of one in six and Tyler Stacy. Tyler's mom was 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:05.160 there too. 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:07.200 It's huge when you're in patum. 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.679 In our studio B we wanted to spend a day 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.440 peeling back the layers of why it is so difficult 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.480 for men of any age to seek help as victims 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:20.280 of male sexual abuse and assault. Anthony Edwards is the 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.880 chairman and national spokesperson for one in six dot org. 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.800 I'm a professional pretender by trade. I've been an actor 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:29.400 professionally since I was sixteen. 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:32.560 Anthony has spent his career in the spotlight, but it 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.480 wasn't until he was fifty two that he came out 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.560 of the shadow of abuse to tell his story. 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:45.280 I was assaulted by my mentor, the man who had 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:50.640 taught me a lot about theater and about art and 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:57.520 was intimately involved with my love for acting. And as 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:02.600 a result of the betrayal, I lived most of my 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:07.040 life and fear because my experience of having been assaulted 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:11.800 as a kid set me up for being afraid and 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.000 not trusting in people, places, or things. 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:21.440 Anthony is now a leading advocate for male sexual abuse survivors. 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.720 One of the one and six's co founders also joined 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:25.360 the discussion. 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:29.920 My name is David Lisak. I'm a clinical psychologist. I've 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:33.960 spent my career working in the area of trauma and 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:39.920 also violence. I've studied perpetrators and I've also studied, primarily 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:45.200 men who experienced child abuse. I have spent the last 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:49.960 thirty some years working at applied areas training law enforcement 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:51.000 and prosecutors. 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.520 We wanted to give Tyler the opportunity to connect with 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.480 someone who truly knows what he's dealing with, so we 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.720 asked Anthony to share more of his story with Tyler. 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:08.960 Men by nature minimize, deny, hide, and isolate, and that's 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:16.160 the tragic result of what happens to people who were 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:20.320 assaulted or traumatized as kids. And I learned to survive 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.960 by hyper focusing. I think probably the reason why I 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:28.120 worked so young and so hard is because that was 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:32.280 the way to survive. That was the way out be 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:37.920 an actor, achieve everything. The other flip side of that 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:43.200 is that acting was something that I loved. It was 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:47.360 really important to me before I met this person, and 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:52.680 when this person came in and twisted it all, I 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.760 still had that core of the joy of that, and 0:04:55.839 --> 0:05:00.560 that's what always I kept trying to reconnect to reminds 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:05.200 me of the fact that we can be damaged, we 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:09.279 can be hurt, but that core of who we are 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:13.320 is always there, and that's what recovery is about. That's 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.760 what I've learned about recovery is that you're recovering the good. 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.320 You're not there to take away all the bad. 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:26.159 When you were fifty two, what inspired you do start 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.120 talking about this? What happened to you? 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:35.839 Pure unadulterated rage, anger that I had never felt before. 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:41.839 The man who had been my perpetrator been the perpetrator. 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.200 We try not to say min because he's not mine. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.479 He is a perpetrator. Was back in the news and 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.720 twenty two years before I had had the experience. When 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:53.799 I was thirty years old of being a new father, 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:58.200 and I had run into him on a plane and 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.560 I said, hey, you did was wrong. What you did 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:03.920 to us as kids was wrong. And I confronted him, 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.440 and he then spent about twenty minutes telling me as 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.000 a walk from the plane about how it was the 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:13.120 worst thing in his life. He'd gotten help, he no 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.800 longer hurt children, he'd felt remorse, that he was healed, 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.479 and he was trying to lead a good life. And 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:23.960 I bought it. Fifty two when all of a sudden 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.320 he was in the news having been accused. I was 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.919 so angry. I was so filled with rage, and I 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.200 wanted to take out a full page ad and Variety 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.440 and say, you know, doctor Green and Goose was assaulted 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.440 by this man, and have a wanted picture of him. Luckily, 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.320 a friend took me and said, before you do that, 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:49.080 why don't you go talk to this psychiatrist and start 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.280 your journey of healing of what really happened to you 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:53.400 when you were a teenager. 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.480 So you almost turn that anger into purpose. 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.400 I luckily did, and I think a lot of survivors don't. 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:03.320 We've learned a lot from the Me Too movement, and 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.160 there's a lot of women that were hurt and abused 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:08.600 and they need to get together and get angry and 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.880 shout out. My experience or experience at one and six 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:15.000 is that a lot of men are already really angry 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:16.600 and they're already acting out. 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.960 I asked Anthony how the trauma of his sexual abuse 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.400 impacted important relationships. 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.480 The same year that I disclosed, the same year that 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:32.960 my marriage ended. The problems within that relationship were directly 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:37.240 affected by my inability to be truthful and honest with 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:42.160 myself and what my experiences were. So you'll see that 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.560 when you talk to men in their fifties, they're at 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.040 this crisis of looking at this because a lot of 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:54.120 their life has exploded. The result of unprocessed trauma will 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:57.520 definitely manifest itself in unhealthy relationships. 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:03.200 Tyler, what parts of Anthony's story resonate with you? 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.880 A lot of it, having to like overachieve and just 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.560 be super successful in life, having that desire to want 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:15.560 to do something bigger than myself and help others because 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:17.760 of what I've been through and use my story for good. 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:20.520 At the end of the day, we've gone through the 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:22.960 same thing. I can relate to him. 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:25.680 I know you guys spoke a little bit in the 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.200 green room, but can you give us a little bit 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.160 to the extent that you're comfortable what happened to you? 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:32.280 Yeah. 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:37.240 So I was abused by my stepfather growing up, started 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.720 around age nine to ten, all the way up until 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:45.240 right before I turned sixteen. He had assaulted one of 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.240 my friends, and growing up as a kid going through it, 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.199 I didn't know that it was terrible thinking I was 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:53.560 all alone. And I'm not saying that it's good to 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:55.400 know he did it to other people, but it let 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.480 me know that I wasn't the problem, that this was 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:02.080 just like a terrible man, and other people had felt 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.960 that pain too. Again, not that that's a good thing, 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:09.800 but it makes you feel understood sometimes, like in some way. 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.600 You learned so much unfortunately when you start uncovering these rocks. 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:18.640 But the predator in my case very much worked with 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:20.960 a group. We had a group of boys that were 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:25.080 all into theater. We were his special group. And so 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:29.720 the grooming aspect, which you realize that so much of 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:35.320 this is about control and power and not I mean sex, Yes, 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.840 but the most important thing is the control and the 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:43.400 manipulation and the power, and part of the silencing is 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:46.240 the fact that you think, oh, well, I'm not being 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.679 hurt as badly as Scott is. Scott's really getting the 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.240 brunt of this, and oh, oh, it's my fault that 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.720 it's happening. So it's a way of keeping everybody silenced. 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:00.280 And then like for me, I was always trying to 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.160 bring friends over like as much as I could, because 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.520 it gave me a sense of safety. I thought like, 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.320 this was only happening to me, that he had something 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.880 for me. I don't know why, necessarily, I didn't think 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:15.560 like it was him. It was just he had something 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.680 for me. Little did I know that I was bringing 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:23.160 all those friends into a dangerous situation because I wanted 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.400 to be safe. And if someone would have told me, 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:27.800 this is hurting all your friends and your family and 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.960 you're bringing your friends right to it, I probably had 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:34.559 have done it. That would have made me break my silence. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:39.560 Psychologist David Leasak heard something that didn't sit right with him. 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.360 I sniffed a little guilt. 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:46.920 Well, yeah, because you got like some friends who he 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:47.920 had done stuff too. 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:50.199 But who did it to him? 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.760 To your friends, it was. 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:56.400 My stepdad at the time. Don't call him that no more. 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:01.880 Yeah, I really don't want you to walk around with 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:05.839 that guilt because it ain't yours. 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:07.400 It's not your fault. 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.040 I'd say that's probably like the worst thing of it 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.880 all to this day now, because I like worked on 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:18.080 what my problems were, but not I guess that problem 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.440 because I thought it more so had to do with 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:22.920 just feeling bad for those people, but more so it's 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:24.559 feeling bad for how I went about it. 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.320 Yeah, that cut me silent for a long time because 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:34.760 my best friend Scott was the one who was repeatedly raped, 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:44.120 and he was a gay man, and he died of 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:50.360 AIDS in nineteen ninety four. My silence really weighed on 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:52.640 the fact that I thought, my God, if I could 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.720 have said something, if I would have done something, would 0:11:55.720 --> 0:12:00.520 his relationship to sex and promiscuity been different? God still 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:06.960 be alive today. They make you feel responsible and to 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.480 this day, as David's pointing out us sitting here and 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:12.480 here you are doing this heroic thing, there's still a 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.760 part of you that's going, fuck, why do I bring 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:20.520 my friends over? You know that that's somehow your fault 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:25.600 and it is not your fault, and that's something we 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:32.440 all work on and we carry You're truly heroic and 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.120 strong to be nineteen and talking. 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.040 Tyler's willingness to share his story at his young age 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:44.560 really is remarkable. Anthony understands the significance, and so does David. 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.560 He isn't only an expert on child abuse and perpetrators, 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:50.199 he's also a survivor. 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:53.960 I disclosed for the first time I know. It was 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.760 in my thirties. I think the way in which the 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:02.920 abuse that I suffered affected my relationships primarily was sort 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:06.679 of a deep lack of trust. I was abused by 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.280 somebody who was living in our house. He was a 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.000 border in order to help cover the rant. We were 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:17.720 pretty poor, and my mother was a refugee from Europe 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:22.160 and this guy was a refugee from Asia from all 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:28.360 World War two. And he would come into my brother 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:32.560 and my bedroom and he would wake me up by 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.320 suffocating me, and then he would take me out of 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:40.280 the room. In between our bedroom and his room, there 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:44.560 was a hallway about maybe eight feet and in that 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:51.600 eight feet every night I would be terrified, knowing what 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.079 it's about to happen to me again. And my brother 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.240 is sleeping over there ten feet from me. My mother 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:02.160 is ten feet down the hall way and I'm alone 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:07.000 and nobody's protect me. I was five years old, and 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.840 that's where I lost my trust. You know, if my 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.960 mother doesn't protect me, if my brother doesn't protect I 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:16.960 had no father, there's nobody's I don't have trust in anybody. 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:22.040 And it took me a good chunk of my life 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:27.960 to get out of that hallway. Yeah, to get out 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:28.960 of that hallway exactly. 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:29.840 Yeah. 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:35.400 Yeah, that moment affected everyone in the room. It was heartbreaking, 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.880 not only the awful abuse David suffered, but the years 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.280 it took for him to process and work through the trauma. 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:45.800 Anthony pointed out that Tyler was changing the pattern. 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:53.840 You're setting an example not of success. That it's all 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.960 gone and done and we got rid of it, but 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.280 the shame is less. You're not going to carry that. 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:05.240 You're not going to carry what's not yours. You know, 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.040 this was done to you, not because of you. 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:16.400 Coming up, Doctor David Lee Sach explains how Tyler's experience 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:27.480 was like living in a war zone. We are sitting 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.840 with Stacy and Tyler as they speak with actor Anthony 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.800 Edwards and clinical psychologist doctor David Lee Sack. 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:40.840 Here's Anthony to this day I believe the perpetrator in 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:45.880 my experience, believed that he was doing it because that's 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.280 what I needed, what I wanted because there was a 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.680 lack of that role model in my life. I didn't 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:54.360 have a father figure. He was going to be the 0:15:54.400 --> 0:16:02.440 father figure. That exploitation of someone's desire is where they 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.800 get in. Oh you want to be loved, Oh your 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.560 dad's not around. Oh you want this. You want to 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.960 be part of a group, you want to have a career, 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:16.760 you want to succeed, And you learn that love is conditional. 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.720 There's no such thing as unconditional love. If you're not 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:26.440 experiencing it, that is love. Love is conditional. Yeah, so 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:28.920 you don't trust, you don't trust. I say, that's why 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:30.680 I became a good actor, because I could go into 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.240 a room and I could assess everything. Because you need 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:35.600 to know where you're safe, where you're not, who you 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.280 can trust. So you get really good at playing a 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:42.720 room to know how to survive, because surviving is the 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:46.360 most important thing, because when your spirit's broken like that, 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:48.600 you feel like you'll die if you don't. 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:50.400 Yeah. 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:53.200 No, it's hard to find joy in things. Really, Like 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.600 I would say, I've worked past my depression, and I've 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.520 worked on myself. I've come very far, but it's hard 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.680 to really find something I enjoy. Like I love watching 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:07.560 a movie with my mom or my girlfriend, but like 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.959 I couldn't do that alone. I wouldn't enjoy it. I 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:13.600 don't know what I want to do. I know I 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.119 want to do something big and important, make a change, 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:19.000 but I have no clue really what that is. 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:24.160 It's interesting that you both felt this need to overachieve 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.280 in your own ways. Where do you think that comes from? 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:30.639 In my head, I like picture where I want my 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.240 life to be, and like I just sometimes tell myself, 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:36.800 I know I'll be happy when I have that dream 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:38.960 job and I have that wife that loves me and 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.760 that family that I wanted in that house that's paid all, 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.480 and that maybe not sports car, but decent car. I'm 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.520 not looking for anything crazy, but still that's what i want. 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:51.520 But the irony, of course, is that you're using all 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.840 of these conditions to do it. I use techniques that 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.760 I learned which were conditional. Oh, if I do this, 0:17:57.960 --> 0:17:59.800 if I get this role, then that will take care 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:01.440 of it. If I get this, I'll believe with it. 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.240 If I find the right person, then I will have 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:08.960 the perfect family. It was always looking ahead as opposed 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.480 to right here and now. So I have to do 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.000 all these things to get there, and that is a 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:19.679 habit trail or a spinning wheel that is impossible to 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:23.399 maintain your whole life. But as long as I was 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:25.919 in the mindset of this and this and this is 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.960 going to make me happy, it didn't work. It didn't work. 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:35.520 Happiness is very hard to achieve when you're conditioned to 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.240 have to do something to get love. 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.200 Yeah, I live a lot in what he was saying. 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.000 You constantly tell yourself, I'll be happy when I get this, 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.200 or as I'm approaching this, I'll be happy. And yeah, 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:52.639 I'll frequently say that, but I've been trying to be 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:53.480 better about it. 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:59.000 Anthony. As a child to learn that love is conditional, 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:02.560 that's a really scary thing. Was it until you came 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.160 a parent? Did you unlock this unconditional love? 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:10.640 It was directly related to being a parent. That's the miracle, 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.240 Like I found the strength to confront this man. When 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.600 you're a parent and you experience that unconditional love, it 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:18.199 changes you. 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:23.520 With the stigma and the fact that men typically don't 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:28.760 disclose until much later, in life, could the number be actually. 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:31.320 We know it is different. That's just what's I mean, 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.920 David could speak to that. It's a notoriously difficult area 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.399 to study, because there's actually a couple studies that have 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:42.560 shown that even when you have documentary evidence that a 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.160 man was sexually abused as a child and you then 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:49.480 ask them later in life if they were ever sexually abused, 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:54.040 the vast majority of those men will deny it, Some 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.959 have lost the memory, most probably are just not willing 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:04.000 to spawned. So as a researcher, I connected many studies 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:07.560 and found, you know, about one and six man were 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.199 acknowledging that they had had some kind of experience that 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:14.600 meets the definition of sexual abuse. And I'm absolutely certain 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.399 that it is only you know, some fraction of the 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:21.720 actual number. What the actual number is, I can't even 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.720 guess it's greater than one and six, that's for sure. 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:31.080 The conversation about denial sparked a thought from Tyler's mom Stacy. 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:35.639 You even said, had it not been for the discovery 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:38.360 of the cameras in our home, he intended to take 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:42.040 it to his grave. I mean that was just his thought. 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:45.920 I mean, the plan was to get the hell out. 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:51.160 I kept telling myself, next year, it'll stop because I'll 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:56.960 be older, I'll look more like a man, and never stopped, 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:00.640 and I just kept telling myself I can push through 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:01.240 high school. 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:07.639 You know, it's important to understand that the intensity of 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:12.200 Tyler's need for purpose, it's the same as soldiers coming 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:17.359 back from war. The experience in a war zone is 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:22.280 so intense. You're frightened all the time, you see death, 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:27.399 and it actually affects your brain. You know, your brain 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:33.400 gets kind of reset to live on edge, and every second, 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:37.440 every moment is charged with you know, what if, what if? 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:37.880 What if? 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:39.679 And what do I have to do to survive this? 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:46.239 When you live with the kind of daily fear that 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:51.440 you lived with you were in a combat zone, yeah, 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:55.600 you know, it's the same thing, and it really recalibrates 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:59.240 your brain, and it takes really a long time to 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:05.240 sort of recalibrate again, so that, yes, you could be 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.400 in a situation where you are once again in that 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:13.840 kind of danger, but most of life isn't that way. 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:18.560 It just takes a while to get to a point 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:22.000 where your nervous system and your brain are kind of 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:26.239 just a little bit more quiet. It's okay to just 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:30.960 have a quiet day. You really were in combat and 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:32.160 you're coming out of it now. 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:39.320 Stacey was sharing something with me this morning about one 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:41.720 of her concerns for you. Do you want to share 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:42.600 a little bit. 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:47.080 A huge concern for me is when I start to 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:51.080 feel that something's not okay with you. You're kind of 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:53.800 quiet or things like that, and you tell me that 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:58.040 you're okay. You're trained for so long to be quiet 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:01.840 and to lie to everyone around you about what's going 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.760 on in your world and how you feel. But I 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:08.399 worry that there are times where he's telling me he's okay, 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:11.080 and I'm still dealing with that child again, who's lying 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:11.359 to me. 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:14.680 You're bringing up just a really important part of all 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:19.960 this too. Everybody's affected by this event, these traumatic events. 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:24.960 Everybody who loves and cares about these individuals is affected. 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:31.240 And in the same way that you have to give 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:36.199 Tyler space for his change, he also has to and 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:38.679 you have to take the space for yourself as a 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:42.600 parent to process what it is to feel that, oh 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:45.600 my god, why didn't I do anything? How Come I 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:49.480 didn't protect And so you have to allow yourself You're 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:53.760 healing in this process because You can't only be good 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:58.600 if Tyler's good. You have to be good unto yourself. 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:02.000 But you can make your happiness conditional on whether or 0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:05.920 not Tyler recovers, because he's going to and he is recovering. 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:10.000 It's worthwhile to remember from time to time that there's 0:24:10.080 --> 0:24:13.200 another part of the equation here, and that is that 0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:17.240 both of you were groomed. I've spent a lot of 0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:24.719 my career studying predators, and grooming is an integral part 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:31.639 of these predations, and it's not just the direct victim 0:24:31.680 --> 0:24:35.800 who's groomed. We're in Boston here now, and I was 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:40.800 here during the nineteen ninety Catholic Clergy eruption of cases. 0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:46.560 I interviewed a number of both victims of John Gagan, 0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:50.600 one of the most prolific predators, and also the mothers 0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:55.720 of some of his victims. And Gagan was just a 0:24:55.760 --> 0:25:03.600 brilliant groomer, and he started by mothers, which gave him 0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:07.560 access to the children, and he would then pick which 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:11.199 one of the children, mostly boys, because he understood that 0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:16.200 boys are less likely to disclose. So you were both 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:20.240 victimized by that grooming process, and that's something that you 0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:26.400 are still coping with. Yeah, everybody can be groomed. 0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:27.720 Everybody. 0:25:28.119 --> 0:25:34.520 What grooming is is taking human trust and perverting it. 0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:40.840 It's almost impossible to detect it. And predators practice this, 0:25:41.240 --> 0:25:43.560 so they're not just doing this for the first time. 0:25:44.040 --> 0:25:46.840 They practiced this over many, many years, and they get 0:25:46.880 --> 0:25:49.960 better and better and better at it, so everybody is 0:25:50.000 --> 0:25:51.000