Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast. The questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Speaker 1: Or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef invest start
Speaker 1: changing it with the Bell Cast attend. Hi, Caitlin, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. I don't speak your
Speaker 1: military jargon because I'm an art student in New York City. Wait,
Speaker 1: by art student, do you mean owns a ribbon dancer? Well,
Speaker 1: guess what, I love the military industrial complex even though
Speaker 1: I'm a fifteen year old girl. Well, now that you
Speaker 1: put it like that, it sounds really cool and appealing,
Speaker 1: and I will also be in love with it. Let's kiss,
Speaker 1: And that's the plot of today's movie. Us Bedel Cast.
Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Darante.
Speaker 1: And uh, this is our podcast where we examine movies
Speaker 1: through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel test simply
Speaker 1: as a jumping off point. Jamie, what is it? What's
Speaker 1: the Bechdel TESTT right? The Bechdel Test is a media
Speaker 1: metric invented by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the
Speaker 1: Bechdel Wallace test. Uh, there's many variants on it. What
Speaker 1: we use it requires that two people of a marginalized
Speaker 1: gender with names must speak to each other about something
Speaker 1: other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue.
Speaker 1: A lot of movies don't pass two lines of dialogue
Speaker 1: or also, again, are kind of new? Are the newest
Speaker 1: caveat meaning ometer? Yeah? Is it a meaningful conversation that
Speaker 1: could the conversation be removed from the movie and nothing
Speaker 1: would be impacted kind of thing. Fortunately, I don't think
Speaker 1: a problem will really be having today because today we
Speaker 1: are unlocking one of our favorite episodes from our Patreon
Speaker 1: a k a. Matreon. We do this, but we've only
Speaker 1: done this a couple of times. There's over eighty episodes
Speaker 1: in the Matreon. If you're in, if you've run out
Speaker 1: of main feed episodes, that is where we cover maybe
Speaker 1: like not even less requested movies, just kind of like
Speaker 1: more niche goofy goofy movies, an extremely goofy movie. I
Speaker 1: can't believe we haven't covered any goofy movies. We'll get there.
Speaker 1: I know that Danny Fernandez wants us to come on
Speaker 1: and talk about goofy movie. Thank goodness, but yeah, we're
Speaker 1: unlocking one of our favorite episodes today. Uh, and it's
Speaker 1: a returning guests to the main feed. Kiabron talks to
Speaker 1: us about Cadet Kelly, d Colm classic sexual awakening for
Speaker 1: many Yes, I, as you'll hear on the episode, I
Speaker 1: until very recently didn't know what a d coom was,
Speaker 1: so Cadet Kelly was one of the first ones I
Speaker 1: had ever seen. You've come a long way since we
Speaker 1: recorded this too, I mean I have, You've been radicalized
Speaker 1: a little bit. It's it's true, it's true. But you know,
Speaker 1: we did a d Come Month last year on the
Speaker 1: Matreon and this episode that we're unlocking is one of
Speaker 1: the ones from that. And um, yes, now I'm now
Speaker 1: I'm full on d com head. We've literally had an
Speaker 1: iconic d com star on our damn show at this point.
Speaker 1: It's incredible. Gracie Gillham, you know where d com heads
Speaker 1: die hard for life. Uh. And Cadet Kelly, certainly, I
Speaker 1: feel like is among many generations at this point considered
Speaker 1: a top tier d com in spite of all its
Speaker 1: military industrial themes. Yes, so there you go. So this
Speaker 1: is um, this is a Matreon episode, So you might
Speaker 1: notice it's a little loose. It's a little it is
Speaker 1: extremely goofy. If you're like, hey, I love these vibes,
Speaker 1: you can sign up for it if you if you
Speaker 1: said choose, yes, this is our plug for the Matreon.
Speaker 1: And because we usually plug it at the end of
Speaker 1: the episodes and I'm like, people probably you know, they
Speaker 1: skip over that. So here we are at the beginning
Speaker 1: plugging the Matreon. Go to patreon dot com slash pectel cast.
Speaker 1: It is five dollars a month. It gets you these
Speaker 1: two bonus episodes every month, plus access to the as
Speaker 1: you said, Jamie, eighty or more episodes that we have accumulated. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll read off some recent some you seen episodes to
Speaker 1: what your appetite. We just we just finished. Okay, this
Speaker 1: is one of our worst themes. This is not borat
Speaker 1: Titanic month. We did borat subsequent movie film and Titanic again.
Speaker 1: We've also recently did we We observed Molina March this
Speaker 1: year with Ralph Breath day Internet and the Da Vinci code.
Speaker 1: We did I forget what we called this movies with
Speaker 1: an animal in the title February. Oh yes, it was
Speaker 1: something very clunky like that. Yea with Chicken Wren and
Speaker 1: Coyote Ugly, and then we did Amy Adams. She can
Speaker 1: do it all. She can act in any genre. January
Speaker 1: uh with Enchanted and Arrival. And that's just a taste.
Speaker 1: That's just a taste. There's eighty six episodes on the Matriot.
Speaker 1: Good lord cow Wait is that the letterboxed list that
Speaker 1: you're pulling from. No, I'm pulling from scholarly journal Wikipedia.
Speaker 1: That is up but wow, incredible. Shout out to our
Speaker 1: whoever edits our Wikipedia page because it is up to date.
Speaker 1: I please, if it is you, apologies for us forgetting
Speaker 1: that it's you. Please let us know who you are
Speaker 1: so that we can properly credit you. And like we
Speaker 1: I just I feel indebted to you because you know
Speaker 1: more about our show than I do. I referred to
Speaker 1: this page all the time. Amazing. Um, so enjoy this episode,
Speaker 1: this unlocked episode on Cadet Kelly and enjoy Kia Brown
Speaker 1: the bel cast High Matron Im matronds it's part too
Speaker 1: of d Calm July. I have genuinely been enjoying this
Speaker 1: um this DCLM dually. I mean, as with every d
Speaker 1: coom july a k we've never done this before. But
Speaker 1: but I I, Caitlin, You're becoming a full fledged d
Speaker 1: com stand. After years of saying things like what is this?
Speaker 1: I don't like these? These are all of a sudden
Speaker 1: You've seen the light. I truly owe you, Jamie and
Speaker 1: everyone an apology because I did not know how influential
Speaker 1: these films were. I just I didn't realize that everyone
Speaker 1: had grown up with them except for me. I didn't
Speaker 1: realize how important they were to so many people and
Speaker 1: still are for some of them. I just I completely
Speaker 1: somehow missed. I mean, I know how. It's because I
Speaker 1: grew up without cable, and I also again I was
Speaker 1: I'm the age where as they were becoming popular, I
Speaker 1: was aging out of like that demographic of media intended
Speaker 1: for children and families. So that's how I haven't seen
Speaker 1: any of them. But now that I've seen a few
Speaker 1: of them, and like a fair number of the ones
Speaker 1: I've seen, including you, went off curriculum. I went off
Speaker 1: not for the podcast or anything, although I think it
Speaker 1: would be really interesting to cover this movie someday is
Speaker 1: teen Beach movie. It is my favorite movie now. It's
Speaker 1: so good. It's just it's like back to the Future
Speaker 1: meets Pleasantville meets west Side Story. It's great. I loved it.
Speaker 1: So um yeah, I mean I'm I guess you could
Speaker 1: say I'm I'm a d coom stand I yes, I'm
Speaker 1: so glad that you're here with us, with the d
Speaker 1: com community. Let's keep covering d coms. The podcast is
Speaker 1: pivoted now, but we have been covering some so many
Speaker 1: we just did we have when you listen to this,
Speaker 1: There's an upcoming Cheetah Girls episode that I'm really excited
Speaker 1: about and so but today, so we we conducted a
Speaker 1: survey to see taking the temp what the d coms
Speaker 1: he felt strongest about. Also, it Warrant saying that when
Speaker 1: we were soliciting options on Twitter and Instagram, the most
Speaker 1: overwhelming response we've ever gotten to anything ever in the
Speaker 1: history of ever. Truly, people feel really strongly. I had
Speaker 1: no idea, but so the options we gave you. And
Speaker 1: if you're listening, I guess you already had access to
Speaker 1: this info. But we had a Smart House motocross Cadet
Speaker 1: Kelly spoiler or thirteen here on double teams. It was
Speaker 1: it was a tight ish race between Smart Housing Cadet Kelly.
Speaker 1: I thought Smart House was gonna win. But what did
Speaker 1: I know? You can't I I felt I felt like
Speaker 1: Cadet Kelly was going to take it. But we should
Speaker 1: cover smart Houses sometime because it's like techno future dystopia.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it in like at least ten years,
Speaker 1: but I feel like maybe it holds up. But you
Speaker 1: know that's not always true. Well, next year for d
Speaker 1: Coom July will cover teen Beach Movie and Smart House.
Speaker 1: We might even cover Decome July. We might observe Decom
Speaker 1: July this September. We just don't know. Wow, the calendar
Speaker 1: is unpredictable. On the Matreon, something is July comes in September.
Speaker 1: It's technically Portman July right now, but I heard that
Speaker 1: this year that falls in next March. Well, also, we
Speaker 1: can't forget about j LO July, which we last year
Speaker 1: observed in September. That's true, And when j Lo July
Speaker 1: comes back around again, who knows, it's always July, but
Speaker 1: it's never July, so it's Decome March and uh my
Speaker 1: head hurts now anyways, connect Kelly one by over a
Speaker 1: hundred votes on on the Matreon, and so true. We
Speaker 1: are discussing Cadet Kelly. I am very excited to talk
Speaker 1: about this movie with you, Caitlin. Um, this was your
Speaker 1: first time saying it correct? Correct? Okay, this was one
Speaker 1: of my favorite D coms as a kid, but like
Speaker 1: many D coms, I remembered basically zero plot points. Um,
Speaker 1: but I did. Um, you know, I just this was
Speaker 1: a movie that I really liked as a kid, and
Speaker 1: I like to watch it over and over, and I
Speaker 1: like to watch certain parts over and over, and then
Speaker 1: you get older and you're like, I see, I see
Speaker 1: what was going on there? Um. Cadet Kelly is fascinating
Speaker 1: and it's good and quick context. I guess before we
Speaker 1: do the recap because we also have a secret surprise
Speaker 1: guest today, UM to talk about all of the queer
Speaker 1: glory and Cadet Kelly. So we'll cut to that little
Speaker 1: segment a little later on. But yeah, be ready for that.
Speaker 1: But so, this movie came out in two thousand and two.
Speaker 1: At the time, it was the highest, like the most
Speaker 1: viewed Disney Channel original movie ever. Eight million people tuned
Speaker 1: in on the premier night of this movie, which is
Speaker 1: pretty pretty huge. Um, And I think that a lot
Speaker 1: of the reason that was was because they pulled out
Speaker 1: all the stops for this Deacon. They took two of
Speaker 1: their most popular stars on the channel, Hilary duff A
Speaker 1: k Lizzie McGuire, which was like kicking off at this
Speaker 1: and then Reren Stevens Ak Christy Carlson Romano ak also
Speaker 1: Kim Possible, but I don't think Impossible was out yet
Speaker 1: at this point. Anyways, to Disney Channel icons who had
Speaker 1: never been in anything before, and so it was an
Speaker 1: epic crossover and it and Gary Cole, I'm sure was
Speaker 1: very cold in the movie. Tween girls loved, they demanded it,
Speaker 1: so you know, I think that some people would say
Speaker 1: it was Hillary and Christy Carlson Romano who brought us,
Speaker 1: but I can say, as a tween who was there
Speaker 1: as a nine year old at this time, I can
Speaker 1: tell you for sure we were tuning in for Gary Cole.
Speaker 1: Very cool. I know, I was shocked because normally I
Speaker 1: feel like, I mean, d comes cast, you know, not
Speaker 1: not that Gary Cole is like an A lister, but
Speaker 1: he tends to be in cinema that is like getting
Speaker 1: wide studio releases, and you know, he's like a he's
Speaker 1: a recognizable person, a character actor, and then like d
Speaker 1: coms will pull from like the like F or G
Speaker 1: list actor. My theory is that because I looked this
Speaker 1: up because I was like, I feel like I know
Speaker 1: what Gary Cole did this movie. I think it's because
Speaker 1: he had a twin daughter at this time, so I
Speaker 1: think it was one of those I mean, also, I
Speaker 1: can't imagine these movies paid particularly well for their supporting cast. Again,
Speaker 1: they have fourteen dollars for their budget per each d COM,
Speaker 1: and you know twelve of those dollars are going to
Speaker 1: Hillary Duff. So but but I think I looked it
Speaker 1: up and Gary Cole has has a daughter who I
Speaker 1: think would have been like seven or eight when this
Speaker 1: movie came out. So I bet it was like one
Speaker 1: of those choices to say, like, guess what, I'm cool,
Speaker 1: and then he was cast as the lamest character. So
Speaker 1: it's too bad. Yeah, that makes sense though, cool. Are
Speaker 1: we ready for the recap? Let's recap cadet Kelly? So
Speaker 1: we meet Kelly Collins. That's Hillary Duff. She goes to
Speaker 1: an arts school in New York City? Ever heard of it?
Speaker 1: Who is she? The Cheetah Girls? I love? This was
Speaker 1: also like a peek I'm sorry, I'm already like getting excited,
Speaker 1: but this was like peak. I mean, I guess this
Speaker 1: is still peak, but like tween entertainment loves teen art
Speaker 1: schools in New York. There was also a show out
Speaker 1: at this time. It's called Tyana on Nickelodeon. I think
Speaker 1: I brought it up before because the title character is
Speaker 1: in Freaky Friday. But um, it was all a about
Speaker 1: a girl pursuing her artistic dreams in New York but
Speaker 1: she was only fifteen. Very exciting, very compelling plot. Sorry, Okay,
Speaker 1: So she goes this art school. We meet her parents,
Speaker 1: who are divorced from each other, but they still have
Speaker 1: their unfriendly terms. Her dad is a has a job.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure he's a photojournalist. I think I think something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of vague, but they're clothes. I did really
Speaker 1: appreciate that they made it, and I feel like amicable divorce,
Speaker 1: not life ruining divorce on screen. Um is pretty rare representation,
Speaker 1: to the point that even wanting I was like, WHOA,
Speaker 1: you don't that's so nice. You don't see that a lot?
Speaker 1: Like they broke up because they simply were not in
Speaker 1: love anymore. And it's fine. Yeah, also like just the
Speaker 1: fact that Disney acknowledges divorce at all, something that surprised
Speaker 1: zing because like they're like, yeah, well maybe one of
Speaker 1: the parents is in the picture, but it's because she's dead. There. No,
Speaker 1: I found that very But that's that's the beauty of
Speaker 1: the dcon. That's where they test these ideas, is that true?
Speaker 1: Are we is America ready? And then the tweens are
Speaker 1: always ready? And then it makes its way into the
Speaker 1: theatrical releases. Sure, and then we get Moana, the most
Speaker 1: progressive text of all toy I think we can draw
Speaker 1: a direct line from this to Moan. Okay, so um.
Speaker 1: We also meet her mom, who's a working woman. Her
Speaker 1: job is also a little unclear. She's an editor and
Speaker 1: that I'm done editing. When she su she's like, I'm done,
Speaker 1: I'm done edit video editors. Is she the editor of
Speaker 1: a like a major magazine trope? I mean, if we're
Speaker 1: to guess based on tropes, she's almost in the magazine.
Speaker 1: She's like, she's like Jenna from Yes, Wow. Can't belief
Speaker 1: I got that reference. We look at us, look at
Speaker 1: us wowe. So, Kelly's mom announces that she is getting
Speaker 1: married to this guy. Joe that's Gary cole Um. He
Speaker 1: is a retired military general. And Kelly takes this news well.
Speaker 1: But then there's another surprise coming Kelly's way, and it
Speaker 1: is that they are all going to move to upstate
Speaker 1: New York because Joe got a job as the commandant
Speaker 1: whatever that is. I don't know. I didn't fact track
Speaker 1: to see if any of this stuff was correct. That
Speaker 1: this is cannon true, this is canon for the military. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So he's the commandant of a military school where Kelly
Speaker 1: will have to attend. And Kelly is very upset by this,
Speaker 1: but she has no choice in the matter. So she
Speaker 1: arrives to the military school. She does not fit in.
Speaker 1: She is not like the other military school students. Also,
Speaker 1: at this point we get it's set up that there
Speaker 1: are students tossing around plastic rifles in unison um aka
Speaker 1: the drill team, which will become important. It becomes a
Speaker 1: plat point. Yeah. Then she meets Carlo. That's Andrea Lewis,
Speaker 1: who is nice and for for listeners who were very
Speaker 1: watching television all the time at this time, Hazel from
Speaker 1: Degrassi Andrea Lewis, they're so all my Degrassi heads, Yes,
Speaker 1: that is Hazel got It never watched that show. She
Speaker 1: later dates Drake on DeGrassie. She was Drake's girlfriend on
Speaker 1: degrassi and She but then she broke up with him
Speaker 1: because he was being an asshole. Well speaking of assholes.
Speaker 1: So Carla is nice. But then Kelly meets Captain Jennifer
Speaker 1: Stone ak Christie Carlson Romano, who is mean um, and
Speaker 1: Kelly is like, you know what, this military school needs
Speaker 1: to be a kinder, gentler place and it's up to
Speaker 1: me to change it, which never ends up happening, by
Speaker 1: the way. Um. Then Kelly has another run in with Jennifer,
Speaker 1: but Carla is like, hey, I'll teach Kelly how to
Speaker 1: military and Jennifer is like fine. We also meet Brad.
Speaker 1: That's Sean Ashmore. He's the cutest boy on campus who
Speaker 1: all the girls like. But Captain Stone likes him, but
Speaker 1: does she will talk about that later. Um, so he
Speaker 1: is he is off limits to all the other girls.
Speaker 1: There's a welcome back dance later that week, and then
Speaker 1: Kelly takes Carla to her house so she can try
Speaker 1: on her dresses. Carla doesn't have any dresses of her own.
Speaker 1: It feels like there's an implication that she comes from
Speaker 1: like a low socioeconomic background, and the movie simply refuses
Speaker 1: to get more specific, frustrating. Then we see all the
Speaker 1: students doing drills. Kelly is struggling with this or I
Speaker 1: don't what is that what you call it? I don't
Speaker 1: know they're doing. They're like crawling in the mud whatever
Speaker 1: that's there. It's not obstacle code, like I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know a military jargon and I don't care
Speaker 1: to find out. Okay, Kelly struggling. Jennifer continues to give
Speaker 1: her a hard time, and she's like, you're going to
Speaker 1: stay here and do this until you get it right,
Speaker 1: which means that Kelly misses the dance um because she's
Speaker 1: like doing this obstacle course again with Gloria. But it's
Speaker 1: also raining and so there it's like kind of like hot,
Speaker 1: like it's weird, like they're they're like, oh, we're so
Speaker 1: like it's so we we're bonding dear like clothes or
Speaker 1: clinging to my body and I don't I don't mean
Speaker 1: to like, I'm not I'm not trying to sexualize Hillary Duff.
Speaker 1: I'm saying my experience watching this as a kid was
Speaker 1: like there wet like that. It was the vibe. Yes,
Speaker 1: So then Kelly falls down. She's already muddy, and then
Speaker 1: she falls down a muddy hill, tumbles through the doors
Speaker 1: into the dance, right into Jennifer, the most intense hill
Speaker 1: tumble of also like this, I guess Lizzie McGuire already
Speaker 1: would have at this point, but like, this movie solidifies
Speaker 1: Hillary Duff's queen of the prat fall. I mean, she
Speaker 1: prat falls NonStop, but this prop fall, she the falling
Speaker 1: has stopped, but she continues to fall into Christie Carlson
Speaker 1: romana for thirty seconds. She's like what what like, how
Speaker 1: have you not regained equilibrium at this point? Like she
Speaker 1: can't stop falling. It's because she she runs long after
Speaker 1: she would have like she would the momentum would have
Speaker 1: slowed by that point, but she keeps barreling through the dance,
Speaker 1: crashes into Jennifer and then like is hanging off of
Speaker 1: her and falling onto an into her for another thirty
Speaker 1: seconds and it's incredible. And then Brad is like not
Speaker 1: helping Jennifer at all. He's like, oh, I didn't know
Speaker 1: you could get down in dirty or something. It's what
Speaker 1: he thinks is a hilarious joke, and you're like, Brad,
Speaker 1: shut up, shut up, Brad. Anyway, so Kelly has gotten
Speaker 1: mud all over Jennifer's white dress, and Kelly just continues
Speaker 1: to have a tough time at school. Her mother tells
Speaker 1: her that she is regnant with Joe's baby. Gree gnat
Speaker 1: as hell will talk about it. It's the plot baby
Speaker 1: she got pregnant with the second act of the movie.
Speaker 1: Oh God, Okay, and then um, Jennifer is continuing to
Speaker 1: harass Kelly. Um. So then Kelly puts paint in Jennifer's hair,
Speaker 1: which she gets in huge trouble for there's a whole
Speaker 1: hearing and her stepdad punishes Kelly by assigning her to
Speaker 1: help the drill team. This is a team that flings
Speaker 1: around plastic rifles, um, and she has to like shine
Speaker 1: their shoes and stuff. Then she starts to notice that
Speaker 1: what she thought was like not cool thing that was
Speaker 1: done by robots is actually really beautiful um, and she's like,
Speaker 1: maybe I could do this, Maybe I could fling rifles around.
Speaker 1: She tries, and she's not really She's really bad at it,
Speaker 1: but she's still Her interest remains. And then there's this
Speaker 1: meat where the team underperforms, and Brad is like, Oh,
Speaker 1: we need inspiration, we need originality, we need creativity, and
Speaker 1: Kelly's like, wait a minute, we need increative dancing. She's like,
Speaker 1: I went to an arts school in New York City.
Speaker 1: Ever heard of it? I think I'm creative. And then
Speaker 1: she asks Gloria, who we saw in like the obstacle
Speaker 1: course scene, to coach her and teach her how to
Speaker 1: do the drill rifle flinging, and so we get a
Speaker 1: training montage. Then Kelly tries out for the team and
Speaker 1: she makes it, and she and Jennifer have that amazing
Speaker 1: dance off in the quad. It's this isn't this is
Speaker 1: If you don't remember anything that happened in the movie,
Speaker 1: you still remember this scene the quad dancing for sure.
Speaker 1: So Brad sees them dancing and he's like, wow, yes,
Speaker 1: this is the kind of stuff we need. So then
Speaker 1: Kelly approaches Jennifer and she's like, Hey, what if we're
Speaker 1: like partners and we like do this dancing thing at
Speaker 1: the regional competition that's coming up. Because I guess they
Speaker 1: don't hate each other anymore. Well, they've always been in
Speaker 1: love and then it's the day of the regionals. But
Speaker 1: wait a minute, Kelly's dad, who was supposed to be there,
Speaker 1: isn't there, and she's worried that something might have happened
Speaker 1: to him, so she decides to leave the competition with
Speaker 1: her stepdad Joe Mr Gary Cole trying to impress his
Speaker 1: daughter aka sir, which is what he is. I think
Speaker 1: in IMDb his character's name is sir, which is so
Speaker 1: funny to me. Yes, this is well, that's also like,
Speaker 1: that is such a weird trend at this there well,
Speaker 1: not like calling an executive male figure sir is not
Speaker 1: a trend, but or it's a very long trend. But
Speaker 1: there there was. Do you remember there was a character
Speaker 1: named sir In Holes? John Voight plays a character named yes,
Speaker 1: Mr Sir, Mr Sir. And then there was also in
Speaker 1: a series of unfortunate events like mysterious male figure who
Speaker 1: only identified as sir. It was a thing in the
Speaker 1: early aughts. Wow. Also, where's our Holes episode? Where is
Speaker 1: our Holes episode? Honestly, I am still like struggling with
Speaker 1: deciding what my birthday picks are. Maybe Holes is gonna
Speaker 1: knock off something, well, I would love that. Jamie Love
Speaker 1: Holes I love Holes, Zero in Holes, one of my
Speaker 1: biggest childhood crushes. Loved him. Oh my gosh, yeah, I
Speaker 1: love the book, love the movie. Okay, So Joe and
Speaker 1: Kelly are like, we gotta go find my dad, and
Speaker 1: they go to look for him in the wildern in
Speaker 1: the wilderness, and he has fallen off of a cliff, which, again,
Speaker 1: this is basically the same climactic sequence from Cheetah Girls
Speaker 1: where a dog falls in a hole. Instead we have
Speaker 1: Dad falls off a cliff. This is funny. It's funny
Speaker 1: because he has following up a cliff, is not hurt,
Speaker 1: is not hurt? Not right. There is that shot of
Speaker 1: him turning over his shoulder, unscathed, not even like a
Speaker 1: makeup scratch. He's just like, Kelly, you're here. I was like,
Speaker 1: what was preventing you from getting up? You seem fine?
Speaker 1: Like even though he felt what was like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: forty or more feet off of this cliff onto a rock,
Speaker 1: and it's like, he, how did you survive? He would
Speaker 1: have been so hurt if he had survived the fall,
Speaker 1: but instead he's literally not a mark on the man.
Speaker 1: But then he's still pulled onto like a gurney. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's really weird. It's really I don't understand. Also, in
Speaker 1: both this movie and in Cheetah Girls, where again the
Speaker 1: climactic sequence at least partly involves a character falling in
Speaker 1: some way, in both cases those things don't have any
Speaker 1: thing to do with the rest of the story, Like
Speaker 1: why suddenly are we focusing on the dad again? And
Speaker 1: it's like, what, she's in the middle of a competition
Speaker 1: right now. I feel like the d com playbook takes
Speaker 1: the save the cat mentality very seriously, literally to the
Speaker 1: point where you, yeah, they're like, we need to save someone,
Speaker 1: because they do interrupt the climax of the movie. Basically,
Speaker 1: Hillary Duff misses a lot of the climax of the
Speaker 1: movie to go save the dad, Like it's a whole
Speaker 1: I don't know why it happens. I do. I will
Speaker 1: say I prefer the way it resolves and Cheata Girls better,
Speaker 1: which is they sing the dog out of the hole.
Speaker 1: They just lift the dad off the clip. I would
Speaker 1: rather they sang him up the clip. But well, I guess.
Speaker 1: And so in the cheats they're using there, they're using
Speaker 1: their singing skills, which we which is a huge part
Speaker 1: of the story. Cadet Kelly ll she's using her obstacle
Speaker 1: course training to save her dad, so there's still some
Speaker 1: plan payoff there. I guess there's definitely planned. I think
Speaker 1: that that was very intentionally done. I just I think
Speaker 1: it's more fun to watch the cheaty girls sing a
Speaker 1: dog out of a hole. But that's just you know,
Speaker 1: we're all different also, and I didn't realize this until
Speaker 1: my second watch of the movie, where him having a
Speaker 1: tendency to fall is also planted, because in the very
Speaker 1: beginning of the movie, when he is picking her up
Speaker 1: at her arts school, he's like balancing on a ledge
Speaker 1: and then just falls off of it. So I guess
Speaker 1: they're the screenwriters like, well, we have to establish that
Speaker 1: he tends to fall girls, the climax won't make any sense,
Speaker 1: which is like really looking out for the viewer, maybe
Speaker 1: a little too much. It's not absurd that anyone on
Speaker 1: a cliff might fall off of it, right then, Harry
Speaker 1: it to cliffs they're slippery. But but I appreciate the plant. Yes,
Speaker 1: it was very narratively important. So then they saved the
Speaker 1: dad And this is the conclusion of a weird subplot
Speaker 1: that I don't think needs to be there where like, well,
Speaker 1: I guess we can discuss it. But she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: my stepdad, who has been this rigid military man this
Speaker 1: whole time, is finally learning feelings, learning how to be
Speaker 1: a dad, blah blah blah. I don't hate it, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, I guess it's like, why is so
Speaker 1: much real estate given to the dad's all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I don't hate that. Like men learn how to have feelings.
Speaker 1: That's nice, like military and men specifically too. I thought
Speaker 1: that was like a cool thing. We'll talk about it. Yeah. Um. Anyway,
Speaker 1: so they returned to the competition just in time for
Speaker 1: Kelly and Jennifer to do their dancing thing um, which
Speaker 1: is a part of the rifle slinging. Then Kelly's school
Speaker 1: gets second place in the competition, and then I think, like,
Speaker 1: Jennifer promotes Kelly. She's like, you're the cadet captain now,
Speaker 1: which I didn't realize she had the power to do, right.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's like I hope this happens
Speaker 1: for you, or if she's like, I'm promoting you because
Speaker 1: I have the authority to do that. What she should
Speaker 1: be doing is apologizing. But that that's just not what
Speaker 1: this movie is going to do, but it does so
Speaker 1: many other things. Their relationship is still kind of abusive them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then that's the story. I think they get second
Speaker 1: place and then um, yeah, she learns the value of
Speaker 1: having gone to military school. I get question Mark, I guess.
Speaker 1: So what we're gonna do with this episode was we're
Speaker 1: going to now to a discussion we had with the
Speaker 1: wonderful writer Kia Brown, who is just a full on
Speaker 1: Cadet Kelly stand an expert, and we're going to start
Speaker 1: by having a discussion with her about a lot of things,
Speaker 1: but mainly focusing around um, the queer coded or perhaps
Speaker 1: just queer themes of Cadet Kelly, and then we'll pop
Speaker 1: back in at the end and talk about a few
Speaker 1: other things. So enjoying Kia. So the first thing we
Speaker 1: want to do is to go into a segment with
Speaker 1: a special guest. She is a journalist. She's the author
Speaker 1: of the book The Pretty One on Life, pop culture, disability,
Speaker 1: and other Reasons to Fall in Love with Me. It's
Speaker 1: Kia Brown. Hi, thanks for being here, Thank you for
Speaker 1: having me. I'm really pump you're a Cadet Kelly scholar. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's my resumetor my website or something. Yeah, I am
Speaker 1: a scholar, thank you. So a major thing about this
Speaker 1: movie that a lot of people have latched onto is
Speaker 1: the relationship between Kelly and Jennifer among other characters, and
Speaker 1: the romantic tension, the queer subtext, or in some case
Speaker 1: for some people, like it's like a queer text for them,
Speaker 1: not just so, it's almost exclusively what's been written about
Speaker 1: this movie since to all do with the queer Let's
Speaker 1: let's go with text. Let's go with text. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we're so excited to hear to hear your your thoughts
Speaker 1: on this. You know you've spoken to this before one
Speaker 1: of our favorite podcasts, Let's hang out. Yes, yes, so
Speaker 1: we'll start. But yeah, just tell us what your relationship is,
Speaker 1: what your history with the movie is. Um, well, I
Speaker 1: grew up like we all did, Hailary Duff, and so
Speaker 1: when her and Raven Simone were carrying Disney on their
Speaker 1: backs for that like section of time when nobody else
Speaker 1: was doing anything worthy, they were like, fine, we'll do it.
Speaker 1: It's okay, and um no, Hillary Duff was like, I'll
Speaker 1: give you by time. Daven was like yeah, me too,
Speaker 1: sure whatever, pay me um and Cadet Kelly came out
Speaker 1: and I was like, I was like, wow, this is
Speaker 1: so great. Like I was like, well, first of all,
Speaker 1: I've never really been a big fan of like military stuff,
Speaker 1: but I was like, we love Hilary Duff, so I'll
Speaker 1: be watching. And then I watched it and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is like really not straight. It is decidedly very gay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like this side of it. And then I got older
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I was really right in
Speaker 1: my the thanking thank you for being correct, because what
Speaker 1: there's nothing a bit straight about that everybody at all, Like,
Speaker 1: there's there's nothing, not even the of interest tracks that
Speaker 1: doesn't even Mark Brad Why is he there? Get him out?
Speaker 1: Almost see the little sparkle in his eyes of like
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't belong here, Get me out of
Speaker 1: this movie. He's this vehicle is not for me. Here's
Speaker 1: so I can get paid and I respect Otherwise it's
Speaker 1: just what are he there for? He doesn't do anything really, like,
Speaker 1: he doesn't have any big moments. He spits on a
Speaker 1: shoe it's so gross, which just goes to that scene.
Speaker 1: I hate it to this I'm like, do you have to?
Speaker 1: I mean, like it's this whole thing, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's disgusting. Thanks. Yeah, he does it twice because at
Speaker 1: first he's like, that's not how you shine a shoe,
Speaker 1: and then he spits on it. And then later I
Speaker 1: guess when they're meant to be the movie is trying
Speaker 1: to get you to think that Kelly is flirting with him.
Speaker 1: She's like, I could really use some more spit, and
Speaker 1: then he spits again. Yeah. I was like, Kelly, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, Kelly is like not a very
Speaker 1: effective flirt with anyone, but that, but that was just
Speaker 1: that pushed me over the edge. I was like, stop asking.
Speaker 1: Isn't he like the X man who turns into ice?
Speaker 1: Isn't that what happened to him? I don't know much
Speaker 1: about the man, but one of some who knows, but
Speaker 1: she keeps asking him to spit. And I felt watching
Speaker 1: it as a child, that we were supposed to be
Speaker 1: like and even though I just didn't, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I didn't think anyone felt that way when they watched it,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't. I was like, this is too much.
Speaker 1: Can we move on? Thank you? I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: I was very curious about like if Hillary Duff or
Speaker 1: Christie Carlson Romano, Ren Stevens my queen had spoken to
Speaker 1: this at all, and Christie Carlson Romano spoke about it
Speaker 1: in but it was very like, I don't know, very dodgy.
Speaker 1: I wish she had just been like, no, it's a
Speaker 1: queer movie, obviously, because she is giving like the most
Speaker 1: flirtatious performance I have ever seen. She like, she makes
Speaker 1: like maggot kink, like getting just like whoa. But Christie
Speaker 1: caross Rama kind of like talks around it. She's like,
Speaker 1: I think that Disney films usually are very much about
Speaker 1: a sport or a family, and this one is about
Speaker 1: kids living on their own a boarding school. And then
Speaker 1: the reporter kind of repeated the question was like, okay,
Speaker 1: but is it a queer movie? Like you just described
Speaker 1: a movie. Uh, And Christie cross and Romana said, What
Speaker 1: I make of that is that this is art. Even
Speaker 1: if it's a Disney Channel film, it's still art. And
Speaker 1: the reason why my films and TV shows have done
Speaker 1: well over time is because they have substantial value that
Speaker 1: obviously rings true with fans and fans of all ages.
Speaker 1: I feel blessed to have played Jennifer Stone, because I
Speaker 1: do think if she could have an influence over people
Speaker 1: going through all sorts of different things, then that's very
Speaker 1: flattering to me. So she doesn't answer the question, Oh
Speaker 1: she really, She really talked around. She talked all the
Speaker 1: way around, and then she was like, god, bye bye.
Speaker 1: So I swear there must be something like when you
Speaker 1: sign a contract with Disney, there's some clause or something
Speaker 1: where it's like, do not talk about gay stuff. It
Speaker 1: has there's no gay stuff in our movie, like the Scientology.
Speaker 1: It's like, for twenty thousand years, you cannot. It's like that.
Speaker 1: It had to be contract. It's literally the only reason.
Speaker 1: And I remember she she has a YouTube channel, Christie
Speaker 1: Girls in Romano, and she like filmed herself rewatching Candet Kelly,
Speaker 1: like her scenes in Kennet Kelly, and she was like yeah.
Speaker 1: She was like because some of the songs were different,
Speaker 1: I guess in the Disney Plus version, and like she
Speaker 1: was like, we had rainbow flags. I remember they're not
Speaker 1: like that in the Disney Plus version of it, but
Speaker 1: she's like, I feel like they were a rainbow. And
Speaker 1: then it was just like weird because then she said
Speaker 1: it and then she paused herself and then swiftly moved
Speaker 1: on to something else, And I was like, oh, the
Speaker 1: c Or contract. Do you think they did well? There
Speaker 1: is a lot of rainbow imagery in this movie, between
Speaker 1: the blanket that Kelly is like, this is my blanket
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna have it on my bed, and then
Speaker 1: the hair that she like, the painting of the hair
Speaker 1: that she puts on Jennifer is like in a rainbow. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: So I I when I saw this movie when I
Speaker 1: was a kid, I knew that I really liked it,
Speaker 1: and I liked to watch it over and over and
Speaker 1: I couldn't articulate really why what it was that I
Speaker 1: liked about it so much, But I knew I really
Speaker 1: liked it. But watching it now, it is like it
Speaker 1: feels like as close to a queer d coom as
Speaker 1: especially for this time as you were ever gonna get
Speaker 1: with with like the rainbow imagery of like it's Hillary
Speaker 1: Dove trying to, you know, be herself in this really
Speaker 1: oppressive environment and her like treasured object is a rainbow blanket.
Speaker 1: And then you have Christy Carlson Romano, who is you know,
Speaker 1: trying to basically like assimilate and thrive within the suppressive environment.
Speaker 1: And she destroys the blanket, but she secretly thinks it's
Speaker 1: cool and like it's just the symbolism theism. I found
Speaker 1: this list on something called auto Straddle dot com um,
Speaker 1: where a contributor is my favorite website um, a contributor
Speaker 1: by the name of may ranks all one hundred Disney
Speaker 1: Channel original movies by lesbianism. It's the funniest thing I've
Speaker 1: ever seen, and it's it's just a list of literally
Speaker 1: over a hundred d cooms, right, and Cadet Kelly comes
Speaker 1: in third, like the third most lesbians. Number one is
Speaker 1: Princess Protection Program. Yeah. Yeah, it is always kind of
Speaker 1: those like weirdly like military premises that like, you know,
Speaker 1: let this, I forgot about Princess Protection Program, all right.
Speaker 1: And then number two, which is one that we got
Speaker 1: a Bazilian request for as we were gathering requests for
Speaker 1: d comsum, was Moto Crossed. Okay, this is a good list.
Speaker 1: It's because even down to like the haircut, absolutely like
Speaker 1: they were really on one. I really am, Like, I mean,
Speaker 1: the chemistry that these two have in this movie is incredible.
Speaker 1: It's like you're talking about Kelly, Kelly and Jennifer right,
Speaker 1: because to me, there are so many combinations of characters
Speaker 1: that you can like ship and like that there's like
Speaker 1: romantic tension between them because I was getting very strong.
Speaker 1: Carla has a biggest crush I've ever seen on Kelly.
Speaker 1: Can we can we talk about it? Please? Because this
Speaker 1: is the hill I'm ready to die on, Like tired
Speaker 1: is you know, bless the Heart's tired is Kelly and
Speaker 1: Jennifer wired is Carla and Kelly all the way through
Speaker 1: you just she's like looking at it all loggingly. She
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, I'll help you figure it out. Sure,
Speaker 1: I'll take over your little spit cleaning job so you
Speaker 1: can join the little gun whatever, uh like the gun whatever,
Speaker 1: the drill team, Like yeah, I'll stay over at your
Speaker 1: house and like we can pick out dresses for the dance.
Speaker 1: And I love you. I mean what Like that's that's
Speaker 1: her whole vibe the entire movie. And she's just like,
Speaker 1: I love you. I mean, if you're down for cool,
Speaker 1: it's not, it's fine. But I love Carla first, first
Speaker 1: and foremost. Because I'm a huge Degrassy fan. It's Hazel
Speaker 1: like one of the iconic o G degrassy characters. I
Speaker 1: don't think i'd ever seen her in anything else. I
Speaker 1: forgot that this character was played by her, and uh,
Speaker 1: she's great. I wish that we knew more about her.
Speaker 1: I feel like everything we learned about her is extremely vague,
Speaker 1: to the point where I was like, is this going
Speaker 1: to come back? Where she kind of makes it sound
Speaker 1: like she didn't have a great home life, but she
Speaker 1: words it like, well, if I could choose, it wouldn't
Speaker 1: have been the one I would have chosen, and then
Speaker 1: that that's kind of the last we hear of it.
Speaker 1: I wish that we got to know her better outside
Speaker 1: of like saying what a big crush she has on Kelly,
Speaker 1: which is amazing. I wish I wish the Kelly knew
Speaker 1: more about her, right, I wish that they've made some
Speaker 1: more illusions because it's like, Okay, so your whole life
Speaker 1: wasn't great, but don't they have to pay for military school? Right?
Speaker 1: So like for it? You know, I wish like what
Speaker 1: is going is going on there? They didn't really give
Speaker 1: her more, but I wish that they did, for sure,
Speaker 1: because I love the actress who plays her. Andrew Lewis yes,
Speaker 1: she's she's like a two thousand's two thous I mean,
Speaker 1: she's just an icon. She's the best, and she gives
Speaker 1: such a like sweet performance here too, of like when
Speaker 1: I just every time she walks away from the crowd
Speaker 1: because she's shy and like, so we're like, Carla, no,
Speaker 1: come come hang out with a group Carla, Like, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I do wish we had just had gotten to learn
Speaker 1: more about her because at least with Jennifer, they kind
Speaker 1: of just say, like, oh, she's from a military family,
Speaker 1: so there's pressure on her, like and it's just a
Speaker 1: sentence of context, but it is helpful in like knowing
Speaker 1: where she's coming from. But for some but like with Carla,
Speaker 1: it just seems like it comes up a few times,
Speaker 1: but it's just completely beaten around the bush and talked
Speaker 1: around and then you never find out. Yeah, it feels
Speaker 1: like deliberately glossed over. But then it's just it's such
Speaker 1: a bummer too, because like Kelly tells Carla a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff about herself, but it's like, but Carla never
Speaker 1: gets yeah, Kelly, give Carla a chance to talk about herself.
Speaker 1: I found it so one of my favorite even though
Speaker 1: it breaks my heart. But that scene when Carla sees
Speaker 1: Kelly called Amanda her best friend and then I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, I did that. I did that. It
Speaker 1: was so sweet and she was so broken hearted. And
Speaker 1: then it was like wild because Kelly still didn't get
Speaker 1: it until her stepdad was like, you can have more
Speaker 1: than one best friend and she was like okay, dude,
Speaker 1: She's like, oh she's You're right, and I love it.
Speaker 1: He was like two bed friends, two dads. You're like,
Speaker 1: which is another like even just quote straight marriage between
Speaker 1: Kelly's mom and Joe. It's like, no, I'm like shipping
Speaker 1: Joe and Kelly's dad. Right, they had a look between
Speaker 1: each other that was much more powerful than any look.
Speaker 1: Why else would Joe insist on like, Okay, we have
Speaker 1: to go find They don't even know what's why he's
Speaker 1: not there at the recital or whatever they're doing, but
Speaker 1: he's like we have to go. He's like, we have
Speaker 1: to go find him. He might be hurt in the woods.
Speaker 1: And it's like Joe, like, you've got like you have
Speaker 1: to stay behind it your recital, Like this is such
Speaker 1: a big deal. But there's this whole weird subplot that
Speaker 1: like starts to overwhelm the main plot, but it's like
Speaker 1: the subplot between Kelly and her stepdad and then also
Speaker 1: like Kelly and her dad, Like it's all these weird
Speaker 1: dad related subplots that like start to take up too
Speaker 1: much space. It was a very long scene, but the
Speaker 1: point is that, um, I'm pretty sure there was also
Speaker 1: a romantic tension between m Kelly's dad and two dads.
Speaker 1: Two dads. She even says like, I have two dads.
Speaker 1: They're definitely because the random baby on the way I
Speaker 1: was like, maybe the baby on the way is the
Speaker 1: compromise for them introducing Kelly's dad into their relationship Galaxy
Speaker 1: brain the plot baby, there's another weird thing with that,
Speaker 1: and this will bring it back to the relationship with Carla.
Speaker 1: But there's a very bizarre interaction that Kelly has with
Speaker 1: her mom um when Kelly's mom is like, by the way,
Speaker 1: I'm gregnant, and she's like, don't worry, Kelly, I'll still
Speaker 1: love you. That was so I was like, Kelly did
Speaker 1: not that's not your first thought when you find out
Speaker 1: or that I was that that's not what you say
Speaker 1: to your child. I don't love you. And I've been
Speaker 1: thinking about that too, but but I probably still will
Speaker 1: and I've loved you longer. I was like, but then
Speaker 1: she said something in between that She's like, I'll probably
Speaker 1: still love you, and then she says and I'm sure
Speaker 1: I'm going to love this baby. Like that's too much uncertainty.
Speaker 1: I have to have like headcanon theory about Kelly's mom.
Speaker 1: I think that Kelly's mom is going to wake up
Speaker 1: one morning and be like what am I doing? Because
Speaker 1: she like she she is. I don't know. I feel
Speaker 1: like Kelly. Kelly's mom is kind of the atom of
Speaker 1: the plot in a lot of ways because it's like
Speaker 1: she's like a working mom and she's like an editor
Speaker 1: in New York and then she needs Gary Cole boom
Speaker 1: drops everything. She's like, Okay, I'm retired. I cook full time.
Speaker 1: Which there's a lot we'll we'll talk about that as well,
Speaker 1: of like the military life and the pressures put on
Speaker 1: military wives, Like that's a very real thing, but the
Speaker 1: way that the plot frames it is kind of goofy,
Speaker 1: and it just seems like her life does a one
Speaker 1: eighty entirely. And then and then it sealed it for
Speaker 1: me when she was like, I think I'll love this baby.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know that you're totally sold on
Speaker 1: the decisions you're making. Mom, Like I feel for her.
Speaker 1: I do too, because I was like, like, when I
Speaker 1: watched it recent week, I was like, well, wait, so
Speaker 1: she just drops everything in New York forces her kid
Speaker 1: to go into military school. Feels like this is the
Speaker 1: right decision. So like you went from and I understand
Speaker 1: that people want to be homemakers like cool, but it
Speaker 1: just seems so odd to me that you you're dating
Speaker 1: this man and then you marry him and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't want to work anymore. All that work I
Speaker 1: don't want to do, and then bam, I'm gonna ship
Speaker 1: my kid off to military school when she's like in
Speaker 1: the middle of a school year and everything right art
Speaker 1: school and take her from everything she knows to be like,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be great for you, Kelly. No, it's
Speaker 1: that it's not. It's gonna be so bad. And I
Speaker 1: even tweeted, I was like, did she go to does
Speaker 1: she have to go into the army after military school?
Speaker 1: And people were like, no, chill, it's okay, she doesn't.
Speaker 1: I'm like, thank god, because she probably doesn't want to. No, no,
Speaker 1: she believes in gun control. I love that, she explained,
Speaker 1: but she and then and then also that's also kind
Speaker 1: of on like her biological dad too for not like
Speaker 1: speaking up. He's like, oh yeah, like I'm just kind
Speaker 1: of a photographer. So I guess we're going to military school.
Speaker 1: I'm like, someone should be Maybee questioning the military school
Speaker 1: besides Kelly. Like even Kelly's best friend Amanda doesn't question it.
Speaker 1: She's like, I'm gonna miss you this ups was like,
Speaker 1: why is no one standing up for Kelly. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the whole thing. But bringing it back to the Carla thing,
Speaker 1: so her mom is like, you know, I think I'll
Speaker 1: probably still love you. I'll probably also love this baby, probably,
Speaker 1: but I will love you longer Kelly. And that's what
Speaker 1: Kelly says to Carla, where it's like, yes, you're also
Speaker 1: my best friend. It's just that I haven't liked you
Speaker 1: as long as my other best friend. And it's like
Speaker 1: this weird callback it's so weird. But as far as
Speaker 1: the Kelly Carla friendship slash potential romantic relationship, that was
Speaker 1: like the big one that I was shipping in the movie.
Speaker 1: That makes me so happy because I feel like a
Speaker 1: bazillion like articles. You know, it's not necessarily like prestige
Speaker 1: journalism that's being a lot of these. I've had a
Speaker 1: lot of sub stacked newsletters that are just like my
Speaker 1: favorite My favorite title was when a newsletter that came
Speaker 1: out last year. Then the headline is just Cadet Kelly
Speaker 1: was lesbians, and then and the story continues. It's really fun.
Speaker 1: But yeah, they mostly focus on Jennifer and Kelly when
Speaker 1: there really is I mean, there's a whole menu of
Speaker 1: ships to be had because we also we haven't brought
Speaker 1: up Gloria yet. Gloria love so oh my god, she's
Speaker 1: got she is and we get I mean we at
Speaker 1: least we get more backstory for her as well, which
Speaker 1: I thought was like that scene with her and Kelly
Speaker 1: is so nice and then they like stay friends and
Speaker 1: build their friendship and I like, I don't remember picking
Speaker 1: up on that ship as much when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: but this time I was like, I think Gloria was
Speaker 1: my top ship this year. Glory is just gorgeous. I
Speaker 1: felt like she had more of a thing with Jennifer
Speaker 1: than Oh sure there was a vibe there. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: were they like, I mean, because it was they were
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I don't know how military school
Speaker 1: relationships work, but they were together all the time. Maybe
Speaker 1: I don't know, well so much weird stuff with Brad.
Speaker 1: But there's that scene where like Brad's in the distance
Speaker 1: and Jennifer thinks that she likes spread because like either
Speaker 1: she's suppressing her queer feelings or she doesn't know that
Speaker 1: she's gay yet or something. But she's just like, how
Speaker 1: does my hair look? And then Glory is like it
Speaker 1: looks perfect, it always does. Well, yeah, you're just like, okay, Gloria.
Speaker 1: I yeah, I really like Gloria. I'm glad that she
Speaker 1: I kind of like forgot what her exact thread through
Speaker 1: the story was, and I was worried that we weren't
Speaker 1: going to get her back after and Kelly have, like
Speaker 1: I few, what she and Kelly have is just like
Speaker 1: a really strong, like powerful queer friendship and I love it.
Speaker 1: And then and then when she comes back and she
Speaker 1: like teaches her how to guns, I don't know, there's
Speaker 1: like that's the that's it's the perfect way to describe
Speaker 1: Kelly's like teach me how two guns, and Gloria was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'll do it, and she teaches her to how guns
Speaker 1: and she gets really good at guns, and I don't
Speaker 1: I mean, the military industrial part of their friendship isn't
Speaker 1: my favorite, but it is very sweet. Like that friendship
Speaker 1: is very sweet. I wish you got like another like
Speaker 1: last moment with Gloria and Jennifer, because that's the thing.
Speaker 1: Kelly also realizes the importance of paying someone for their
Speaker 1: time and effort. She's like, I need you to train
Speaker 1: me two guns, but I'm not gonna I insist on
Speaker 1: paying you. So here good, but I have to offer
Speaker 1: s spar She was like, welcome to my etap like
Speaker 1: she's what she's like. And then isn't there some like
Speaker 1: occasional like the occasional use of a Hillary Duff voiceover
Speaker 1: was like accessories are always the way to a girl's heart.
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, yeah, even when she was like
Speaker 1: I have to figure out how to fix this family
Speaker 1: and raise this baby and it's gonna be hard, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, aren't you fifty? Like she's right young, Like
Speaker 1: go out the side and play what do you mean, Kelly?
Speaker 1: In general, I just just rewatching it this time, like
Speaker 1: Kelly is such a like good and open minded and
Speaker 1: like thoughtful person. I love her. She's when her when
Speaker 1: she finds out her mom is pregnant, She's like, I
Speaker 1: guess I have to be in the military because I
Speaker 1: don't want my mom to get upset. While she's agnant,
Speaker 1: I'm like what what, Like she's just so concern the
Speaker 1: two women in the family, between Kelly and her mom,
Speaker 1: they make way too many compromises, just like, no, stop it,
Speaker 1: stop compromising for especially because you get the feeling that
Speaker 1: Kelly's mom is waiting for her to say, let's get
Speaker 1: out of here, and then she's like, oh, thank god,
Speaker 1: and then they could, they would just flee, but they're
Speaker 1: like not kid, because because Kelly wants to appease her mom,
Speaker 1: her mom wants to appease Kelly and her new husband,
Speaker 1: and then they're just trapped in the military right and
Speaker 1: not when they get a thing. But Joe feels like
Speaker 1: the type of guy who you know, gets off of
Speaker 1: work on the weekend, drinks a little too much, says
Speaker 1: something like smart and like it's kind of nasty when
Speaker 1: he drinks, Like I don't know, I just kind of
Speaker 1: have I I was like, are you sure you want to,
Speaker 1: but do you want to stay here? You could, like
Speaker 1: you guys could you could have the baby and then
Speaker 1: you could go, like you don't have to stay here
Speaker 1: at the military school around He's like the principle of
Speaker 1: the pact. Really, you really gave up your life so
Speaker 1: that you could go be a principle. That's cool, which
Speaker 1: is a choice. But I just I've always thought that,
Speaker 1: like in some way, she was like, can we go,
Speaker 1: Like we'll take Carla too, Like let's right, let's yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll take Carla and the baby. We're fleeing the state,
Speaker 1: like we're getting out of here. It makes no sense
Speaker 1: why Kelly's mom would marry this guy like they have
Speaker 1: such I don't. I don't understand that relationship. I did,
Speaker 1: and I wish that I feel like even though I
Speaker 1: appreciate and we'll talk about this as well, but like
Speaker 1: I do appreciate like the Amica Bull divorce uh plot point,
Speaker 1: which I feel like you never get in movies, even
Speaker 1: though it is like not uncommon at all and just
Speaker 1: like normalizes it. But but yeah, like the really only
Speaker 1: know that they met at a wedding. That's kind of
Speaker 1: the only I don't know. I just feel like something
Speaker 1: is really sinister is going on there. It just seems
Speaker 1: strange for like a woman you know, like well into
Speaker 1: her career and seeming to thrive at it. Like I
Speaker 1: wish we hadn't seen a discussion between Gary Cole and
Speaker 1: Kelly's mom just to get some context for like, you know,
Speaker 1: even just a line from Kelly's mom like this is
Speaker 1: actually great. Like I feel like i I've finished what
Speaker 1: i wanted to do in this profession. I'm ready to
Speaker 1: move on. I'm sick of this city. Whatever it is,
Speaker 1: something not just like I feel like at this point,
Speaker 1: the reason she's with Joe is because he's more stable, right,
Speaker 1: But like he's so boring and like his whole thing
Speaker 1: was like, oh, well, you know, my dad was the
Speaker 1: principal of this school and his dad was also the principal,
Speaker 1: And it's like okay, but like do you do anything
Speaker 1: for fun? Like what do you like? What do you
Speaker 1: do for fun? Do you watch TV? He used to
Speaker 1: guns for fun. It was so weird to how they
Speaker 1: were like, oh, the guns stuff. It's like super important,
Speaker 1: super serious, like don't make a makari of it. But
Speaker 1: it's also like, so you guys go to competitions and
Speaker 1: you play with guns and then you leave. How serious
Speaker 1: is that? Really? It is a gun recital. Like you
Speaker 1: hate to say it and you hate to hear it,
Speaker 1: but it's fully a gun recital. They're dancing that also.
Speaker 1: I mean that that day dancing cemented in One Forever, well,
Speaker 1: the one where they're like kind of improvising the one
Speaker 1: and they have a dance off or yeah, whatever you
Speaker 1: would call that, but they're like, oh that was for me,
Speaker 1: that was my rewind moment. That and all the scenes
Speaker 1: where Christie Carol to Romano gets really close to Hillary
Speaker 1: Doub's face I know so often between a bunch of
Speaker 1: different characters and it's like just kiss already. It is
Speaker 1: so funny time. I mean it is not, but like
Speaker 1: curious that Christie Crosson Romano like gave that performance and
Speaker 1: then was like all coy about it, you know, fifteen
Speaker 1: years later, Like I don't know, I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: Christie crows the Romano so close to Hillary Dub's face. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, this is just there. There really is just
Speaker 1: a full menu of queer ships in this movie, and
Speaker 1: it makes me very happy. I wish we'd just gotten more.
Speaker 1: Carla agreed. Also, I think that the dances they make
Speaker 1: me laugh because the one on the quad is better
Speaker 1: than the one. Yeah, no, we like it's just like
Speaker 1: the one on the quad is better, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: how does that work? Look? Okay? Great? They were just
Speaker 1: like improv They're like yes and zips upsp or it's
Speaker 1: gonna like improv this whatever. And then the one that's
Speaker 1: like rehearsed, which like, there's some weird editing choices made
Speaker 1: in that scene, and I was like, who the funk
Speaker 1: edited this movie? And I looked it up and it's
Speaker 1: a woman, And I felt really bad for thinking it
Speaker 1: was horrible editing because I was like, oh, women never
Speaker 1: get to be editors and movies when it can be
Speaker 1: mediocre too. That's true that that's always been our goal
Speaker 1: on this show, But you're right, the dance on the
Speaker 1: quad was much more enjoyable to watch, just better choreographed
Speaker 1: than the weird one at the gun recital. And it's
Speaker 1: really like it also isn't saying much because they both
Speaker 1: weren't great, but given the shorts, the one in the
Speaker 1: quad was definitely better. Yes, yeah, and then you mentioned
Speaker 1: this earlier, Kia, But the fact that Carla ends up
Speaker 1: kind of being a part of the drill team, not
Speaker 1: like actually on the on the team, but she just
Speaker 1: like basically, Kelly's just like, I don't like to shine shoes.
Speaker 1: Will you like help me or we can you just
Speaker 1: be here with me? And Carlos just like, yes, I
Speaker 1: have an enormous crush on you, so I will be
Speaker 1: I will go wherever you are. Literally that's the only
Speaker 1: explanation because I would not be like, oh yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: shine shoes even though I don't have to write, because
Speaker 1: like Kelly is doing it as a punishment. And then
Speaker 1: she's just like, hey, can you do my punishment with me?
Speaker 1: And Carlos like yes. It's like, well I think kids,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like and then and then Carla tries
Speaker 1: to reverse engineer and she's like, this is actually because
Speaker 1: the military means that I should shine shooes with you
Speaker 1: because I'm in love with you, But it's actually because
Speaker 1: of the military, did you know? And Kelly was like, okay,
Speaker 1: is so oblivious to Carla's crush on her. It is
Speaker 1: she needs to open her eyes and see the light. Um, well, Kia,
Speaker 1: do you have any other thoughts about yes, I do
Speaker 1: that quickly, Yes, I didn't like at the end. Okay,
Speaker 1: so when Jennifer is like, oh, my family is moving
Speaker 1: and like I hope that you become a whatever and
Speaker 1: like get a little maggot just like you or whatever,
Speaker 1: and I was like, but how we don't glorify this
Speaker 1: little rank thing that you have going on and tell
Speaker 1: tell you to leave military school. I just like you're
Speaker 1: giving her the wrong message, like she's not supposed to
Speaker 1: be all hard and mean or whatever. Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just I thought about that when I was rewatching it.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I don't want her to get
Speaker 1: another magat. I want her to go home. I want
Speaker 1: I also was like that choice. I I vaguely remember that,
Speaker 1: but it felt a little bit cruel where so many
Speaker 1: of these d coms, like it was assumed that there
Speaker 1: was going to be a sequel, but this, this kind
Speaker 1: of the end of this movie kind of like slams
Speaker 1: the promise of a sequel. It just like slams the
Speaker 1: door in your face, like, no, they don't go to
Speaker 1: school and they're never gonna kiss. Stop dreaming Jamie, Like
Speaker 1: they're like they're never going to kiss, and um, that
Speaker 1: was hurtful. Why did they do that? Yeah, they had
Speaker 1: They gave you no opening. They were like a sequel
Speaker 1: in High School Musical. They're like, well, maybe we'll kiss
Speaker 1: next year, you know. Like but you're right, like with
Speaker 1: the dynamic between I mean kind of separating it, separating
Speaker 1: the queer read from it, just like the dynamic between
Speaker 1: Kelly and Jennifer is this very like Jennifer's higher ranking
Speaker 1: and she's this like militant, like you maggot, you suck.
Speaker 1: I hate you, and I'm gonna rip your blanket apart,
Speaker 1: and just like all this stuff, but ripping your blanket
Speaker 1: the same thing happens in Full Metal Jacket too, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure. But she but then they become friends, as
Speaker 1: the movie wants you to think that it's just a
Speaker 1: platonic friendship, but like, this is something we see in
Speaker 1: a lot of like straight romantic relationships in movies as well,
Speaker 1: where it starts out as this either antagonistic or like
Speaker 1: a man is stalking a woman or a man is
Speaker 1: abusive to a woman, and then suddenly or gradually they
Speaker 1: are in love with each other, and it feels like
Speaker 1: it's just like a weird trope and this exists with
Speaker 1: like in other movies of um like female friendships where
Speaker 1: or something that starts out as a very antagonistic female relationship,
Speaker 1: UM that kind of grows over time, and I don't again,
Speaker 1: I'm always like trying to figure out, like, what is
Speaker 1: the use of this or what's the purpose or what
Speaker 1: are you trying to say with all of this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like that enemies to lovers trope, but I think a
Speaker 1: lot of times it can be harmful in the grand
Speaker 1: scheme of things because they never when they get to
Speaker 1: the point of being friends, right, they never really discussed
Speaker 1: the previous abuse. They don't believe in rectifying that situation.
Speaker 1: It's just like, oh, we're friends now, so we're not
Speaker 1: going to talk about, you know, how you made me
Speaker 1: feel like crap, or how you pushed me in the dirt,
Speaker 1: ripping my blanket, did X, Y and Z just to
Speaker 1: get back at me? And I think that that's not
Speaker 1: as cute as people seem to believe when they're like
Speaker 1: praising them, Like, I feel like there should be a
Speaker 1: an aspect to these stories where it's like, I'm also
Speaker 1: going to apologize for my previous and that would be
Speaker 1: much more healthy than just what they do now. She's
Speaker 1: just like I'm moving to Europe by hopefully you get
Speaker 1: someone that you get to abuse later too. And it
Speaker 1: also it ties into the like women in competition trope
Speaker 1: as well, where again the story has you believe that
Speaker 1: they're kind of competing for the affection of this brad
Speaker 1: guy because there's that scene where they're like they both
Speaker 1: spot him across the quad and then they like speedwalk
Speaker 1: over to him to like try to like make a
Speaker 1: good impression on him. So and then just like on
Speaker 1: top of that again just like the antagonistic female relationship,
Speaker 1: and it's for no other reason than like Jennifer is
Speaker 1: just like mean and it's like I don't I can't
Speaker 1: really make sense of it, but it happens a lot
Speaker 1: in both like children's media and like rom coms, where
Speaker 1: it's just like the two people, the two leads of
Speaker 1: this movie, they hate each other. Why because reasons right,
Speaker 1: because plot devices like it is. It's it's funny because
Speaker 1: even as a person who enjoys a lot of enemies
Speaker 1: to lovers fan fit, I only ever enjoy the ones
Speaker 1: where they like where there's an apology like that's my wheelhouse.
Speaker 1: I'm I don't understand when it's like I slashed your tires,
Speaker 1: I keep your a car, I punched your mom in
Speaker 1: the face. But we're not gonna talk about any of that.
Speaker 1: We're just gonna We're too busy kissing now, right. It
Speaker 1: is like what I mean, It's like, it's pretty clear
Speaker 1: that jenniferes Kelly a pretty huge apology before lead, and
Speaker 1: I feel like it is just kind of glazed over,
Speaker 1: like by the fact that she gave Kelly a compliment
Speaker 1: one time that it's like, oh, and all is forgiven,
Speaker 1: which obviously is not true or realistic, and it kind
Speaker 1: of like glazes over. A lot of what she was
Speaker 1: doing was not like like I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess I've never been to a military school, full disclosure.
Speaker 1: But in theory, you cannot just target a single person
Speaker 1: and harass them and destroy their stuff relentlessly, um and
Speaker 1: then be like it's because I had a crash, like
Speaker 1: because I thought she was cute. Like no, I think
Speaker 1: her parents also owe her. Kelly's parents also owe her
Speaker 1: an apology. I'm like dead set on that because you
Speaker 1: just uprooted her and like you didn't ask for her opinion,
Speaker 1: And I think it's a larger ultural issue where we
Speaker 1: don't talk to children about what they want and need
Speaker 1: because we think that because we're parents, we have the
Speaker 1: ultimate day. But you know, that's maybe a little too
Speaker 1: too deep for the conversation. But I thought about it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you really just changed her life forced to
Speaker 1: attend to military school because I guess i'mline classes were
Speaker 1: an option, and then you were think you were like,
Speaker 1: you're gonna enjoy it, Like I just I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think that they need to apology to her and
Speaker 1: then also promised the baby that comes that the baby
Speaker 1: doesn't have to go to military school. Yes, the baby
Speaker 1: that may or may not be loved by its mother. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's such a drastic change that Kelly has to It's
Speaker 1: like one thing if like a family has to move,
Speaker 1: or like there's a remarriage, and like things get slightly uprooted.
Speaker 1: But to take her from an arts school in New
Speaker 1: York City to a rigid Millet Harry industrial complex education
Speaker 1: that has to be pretty traumatic. But the movie doesn't
Speaker 1: do that much to explore that. Really. Um, I guess
Speaker 1: the last thing I wanted to talk about in relation
Speaker 1: to the queer subtext slash text is Brad. So, what's
Speaker 1: his name? Sean Ashmore, who I guess has a twin.
Speaker 1: Didn't know until I did some research for the movie. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was a twin who was in I think Aaron Ashmore,
Speaker 1: who is in Veronica Mars the whole thing. Anyway, Brad
Speaker 1: is like the hottest boy in school all the movie. Again,
Speaker 1: the movie wants you to think that all the girls
Speaker 1: love him, and it's like, um okay. But there's a
Speaker 1: really confusing aspect to the movie where Carlos says something
Speaker 1: to Kelly towards the beginning that makes you think that
Speaker 1: Jennifer and Brad are dating, but then Jennifer has to
Speaker 1: try to get him interested in her again, Like I
Speaker 1: don't think, like are they dating or that she just
Speaker 1: have a crush on hitting they were that I my
Speaker 1: read was that they were not like officially, at least
Speaker 1: not in like in an an official way. Otherwise Brad
Speaker 1: is a terrible that's the thing, because like, I'm still
Speaker 1: a little unclear, but I think the movie's idea is
Speaker 1: that they are dating because they like go to the
Speaker 1: dance together. Carla says, Oh, that's Jennifer's man, so he's
Speaker 1: off limits to all the other girls, like all this
Speaker 1: stuff that makes you think that they're like together. But
Speaker 1: he treats Jennifer so horribly, like ignores her, like he's like,
Speaker 1: I don't really care like what you have to say,
Speaker 1: and he laughs at her when she gets mud, like
Speaker 1: when Kelly gets muddle over her dress. If I saw
Speaker 1: my boyfriend spitting on another girl's shoe, I would be like,
Speaker 1: excuse you, there's an agreement that you do not sp
Speaker 1: it on another girl's shoe, like even the even the
Speaker 1: hat thing. When she had to show her hair, he
Speaker 1: was like, you have to show, it's regulation. He humiliates
Speaker 1: her publicly in the little um Cadet hearing I'm upset
Speaker 1: by this, Like, oh, Brad, all the girls like Bred,
Speaker 1: but Bred even like girls is the question I might
Speaker 1: not even like girls. It was like, I don't I
Speaker 1: want to go home. He was like, I didn't ask
Speaker 1: for this. Talk about characters we know nothing about, like Brad,
Speaker 1: You're just like, what could possibly be going on with Brad?
Speaker 1: We don't know, We'll never know, Like his background is
Speaker 1: unclear to us. He seems pretty mediocre at what he does,
Speaker 1: like if he really is canonically supposed to be Jennifer's
Speaker 1: boyfriend who likes her. He's doing He's a mean, terrible,
Speaker 1: neglectful boyfriend. Truly. I guess at least I appreciated the
Speaker 1: at that storyline just kind of tapers off and doesn't
Speaker 1: come into anything. And it's not as though, like I
Speaker 1: had a feeling because I hadn't seen this before and
Speaker 1: I didn't know how the story was going to go.
Speaker 1: What I thought was going to happen was that they
Speaker 1: had really wedge in a love story between Kelly and Brad,
Speaker 1: where you know, Brad is dating Jennifer at first, but
Speaker 1: then he starts to see how mean she is, and
Speaker 1: then he starts to like Kelly because she's nice and
Speaker 1: quirky and fun. And so the fact that the movie
Speaker 1: doesn't go in that direction and what was being set
Speaker 1: up there sort of doesn't pay off at all. I
Speaker 1: do appreciate that, because this feels like a movie where
Speaker 1: a hetero romantic subplot was not necessary. I think that
Speaker 1: was too because of the age difference at the time
Speaker 1: of me, I think he was much older than he
Speaker 1: three duffs. They probably didn't true oh like in real life. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: that makes sense because Hilary Duff was like fourteen on
Speaker 1: this movie was shot, which you for it because she's
Speaker 1: such a talented actress, but she was quite young. And
Speaker 1: then I think, um, Chrissy Carlson Romano is seventeen in
Speaker 1: this movie. Everyone is children, but I think isn't Shawanna
Speaker 1: Ashmore he was like in his early twenties. Is not children? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And the Gloria wasn't either I or something. She's everything
Speaker 1: to me. So it's like my wife just checking it
Speaker 1: on her. But it's I think that that's part of
Speaker 1: it too, where she's like they were like, bro, we
Speaker 1: can't have this child and this grown man like kids
Speaker 1: on Disney Channel. But I wasn't. I wasn't upset by
Speaker 1: that at all because it felt like it was forced.
Speaker 1: Like the most that I remember Brad say in the movie,
Speaker 1: even seconds after watching it, is you make me smile
Speaker 1: connect Kelly, Like I don't remember anything else he says.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, well that was weak anyway, Like it
Speaker 1: was like maybe the person who wrote it felt like
Speaker 1: they needed to be a love interest, but also realized
Speaker 1: while they were writing it that the more interesting relationship
Speaker 1: was between the relationships, and like all of the the
Speaker 1: girls and not the men, Like the men seemed to
Speaker 1: be props that they were, which I think is revolutionary
Speaker 1: for the time being. Quick Yeah, no, these guys are
Speaker 1: just props, like they're here for this and this and this,
Speaker 1: but we're not really here for them. So it was
Speaker 1: like that was nice. We appreciate that. Yeah, I agree, Yeah, Kia.
Speaker 1: Any other thoughts, I mean, I think I covered I
Speaker 1: think I covered off. This was just like the most
Speaker 1: life affirming discussion. Well, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: This was tons of fun. And where can people follow you?
Speaker 1: Where can people check out your stuff? Etcetera. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: I for first of all, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: That was really genuinely so much fun. You can find
Speaker 1: me on Twitter and Instagram at Kia k e A
Speaker 1: h Underscore Maria m A I A. I have a
Speaker 1: website Kia brown dot com and a Facebook page at
Speaker 1: the Kia Brown, so I'm in all those spaces. And
Speaker 1: then um, you can buy my book to pretty One
Speaker 1: available now for purchase, and then in fall of I
Speaker 1: have a picture book coming out called Sam's Super Seats
Speaker 1: for the Children via cople of Books. So all those
Speaker 1: good things I can keep you updated with, Yes and
Speaker 1: come back on the show another time. Bring your favorite
Speaker 1: movie and we'll get us. Oh no, I'm definitely taking
Speaker 1: you up on that. Yeah. Yeah, happy to have you
Speaker 1: any time. Thank you both. Yeah, thanks again so much,
Speaker 1: Kia for for joining us. Um, we have a few
Speaker 1: more things we want to discuss. UM. I think another
Speaker 1: major thing to talk about is the like very pro
Speaker 1: military propaganda message that this movie is. Yeah, so I, um,
Speaker 1: I can speak to this a little bit about some
Speaker 1: of the culture that has portrayed here. Uh, because as
Speaker 1: I think I brought it up on the Matrian before
Speaker 1: and as you know, Caitlin I almost married into the
Speaker 1: military rather young, and this whole like set up of
Speaker 1: the I don't know, like this is. I think it's
Speaker 1: a little unusual because it's directed mainly at teen girls. Um,
Speaker 1: and I think it is far more common and this
Speaker 1: is pointed and gendered in itself. But um, for this
Speaker 1: kind of propaganda to be angled at young male identifying
Speaker 1: children is like, okay, you need you know, how what
Speaker 1: is the peak of masculinity, what is the peak of
Speaker 1: you know, discipline? And and so I feel like the
Speaker 1: vast majority of you know, like military movies about young
Speaker 1: people are feature and are targeted at boys, so this
Speaker 1: is I think the rare exception that we see young
Speaker 1: women doing it. I don't. Unfortunately, it's still the fucking
Speaker 1: military industrial complex that there is really no downside. I
Speaker 1: think my main issue is there is no real downside
Speaker 1: to this like situation for Kelly. It sort of implies,
Speaker 1: I think in a slightly disingenuous way that like there
Speaker 1: was room for individualism in the military, and like you
Speaker 1: can meet people in the middle our students can become soldiers,
Speaker 1: And it just feels a little I don't know, Like
Speaker 1: I will say, watching this movie as a kid did
Speaker 1: not make me want to go to military school. For
Speaker 1: what it's worked. It's still and I'd be curious to
Speaker 1: hear what our listeners who saw it as as young
Speaker 1: people think. But it didn't make me want to go
Speaker 1: to a military academy. But it did I think. I
Speaker 1: think that the takeaway you're supposed to get is that Kelly,
Speaker 1: while she is a like very original and individual person,
Speaker 1: which she hasn't really punished for, it does help her
Speaker 1: character every step of the way, But like her life
Speaker 1: was enriched for having learned the discipline of a military
Speaker 1: school and that she had made assumptions about the oppressiveness
Speaker 1: of the environment that was inherently wrong, which if you
Speaker 1: look at I mean, and I don't I don't want
Speaker 1: this episode to take too dark a turn, so I
Speaker 1: will just say, you know, you can do your research
Speaker 1: on your own. But but the experience of any marginalized
Speaker 1: person in the military, it is just it's just a
Speaker 1: full on fallacy that military discipline and experience is a
Speaker 1: universal good. That's not to say that it hasn't served
Speaker 1: many well. And we're not trying to discredit going to
Speaker 1: a military school or joining the military as a life choice,
Speaker 1: like it's you know, were addicted to the troops, were
Speaker 1: in love with the troops? Uh no, no, but that's
Speaker 1: your choice, your body, your choice. I mean, And it's
Speaker 1: like I, I don't know, I dated someone who was
Speaker 1: in the military for a very long time, and so
Speaker 1: you know, but the implication that it is a universal
Speaker 1: good for everyone, I mean, women are not treated particularly
Speaker 1: well in the military, and that's a huge understatement. And
Speaker 1: you can look at some recent news items for more
Speaker 1: information on that. Um The subject of race in the
Speaker 1: military is not often brought up, and there's a huge
Speaker 1: historical erasure of non white soldiers. Uh, and and not
Speaker 1: to mention um being queer in the military, being trans
Speaker 1: in the military. There's there's endless stories and accounts about
Speaker 1: how the oppressive environment that is presented to us in
Speaker 1: this movie as something that will make you learn something
Speaker 1: about yourself and make you a better person for yourself
Speaker 1: and for the people around you. You know, no negatives
Speaker 1: are really examined other than the fact that it's uncomfortable
Speaker 1: at first. I feel like that's as far as this
Speaker 1: movie goes of like whoa, this is weird, and like
Speaker 1: I don't like that, like I'm being yelled at. But
Speaker 1: and not It's not like I'm not expecting this d
Speaker 1: coom to like take on this serious like deep rooted
Speaker 1: misogyny of the amor in military. But maybe it should.
Speaker 1: But it's it's it's too pro I feel like it's
Speaker 1: it's hard to disagree that it's pre way too pro
Speaker 1: So having seen this for the first time only days
Speaker 1: ago and had no idea what it was about at
Speaker 1: all based on what was being set up in like
Speaker 1: Act one, in the beginning of Act two, I had
Speaker 1: really different ideas about where the story was going to
Speaker 1: go because here's here's what kind of gets set up.
Speaker 1: So we meet Kelly at the arts school. She loves
Speaker 1: creative expression, She's very artistic. She's a free thinker. Uh,
Speaker 1: and that's like the main thing about her character. Um.
Speaker 1: Then she's told that she has to go to this
Speaker 1: military school because her mom is making her uproot their
Speaker 1: entire lives for a man. More or less. Kelly is
Speaker 1: very reluctant about this, understandably. So then she gets to
Speaker 1: the military school. She sees what it's like, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I need to turn this into a kinder, gentler place.
Speaker 1: She says different lines of dialogue, like you know, we've
Speaker 1: got brains, we're thinking people. She's challenging sort of the
Speaker 1: uniformity of the military ideology every step of the way,
Speaker 1: or not every swell, at least at the beginning. Um,
Speaker 1: she says, I'd really like to try and retain my
Speaker 1: individuality around here. She says, we may be in military school,
Speaker 1: but we still live in a democracy. She's talking about
Speaker 1: how she hates the uniformity, the rules, the khaki of
Speaker 1: it all. So for the first chunk of the movie,
Speaker 1: she's talking about how she wants to change this place.
Speaker 1: So I thought where the story was going is that
Speaker 1: she was going to bring her like creative energy and
Speaker 1: change everyone's mind about how the school should be run.
Speaker 1: And instead she gets more and more indoctrinated into this
Speaker 1: military lifestyle and ideology and basically loses her sense of
Speaker 1: identity and be comes just another like military drone and
Speaker 1: I'm like, what the fuck? And it feels very like
Speaker 1: early two thousand, I mean, and this comes up in
Speaker 1: every d calm discussion basically very like early two thousand's
Speaker 1: girl power feminism, where it's like, oh, I can be
Speaker 1: in the military, but I'm going to wear a scarf,
Speaker 1: so girl power and you're like, no, Kelly, no there.
Speaker 1: I think it is interesting where it's like the I
Speaker 1: think it's very clever and creative the way that the
Speaker 1: ideals of the military are presented to Kelly, because some
Speaker 1: of it sounds good to the point where I agree
Speaker 1: with it. Where it's like, you know, the um and
Speaker 1: I think this is communicated through Carla, where Carla basically
Speaker 1: says to Kelly, like, it's not just about you, it's
Speaker 1: also about you know, serving the interests of the group,
Speaker 1: and like we help each other and we're a community,
Speaker 1: and like stuff that is like, Okay, I agree with this,
Speaker 1: but but leaving out you know, it's it's misrepresenting biomission
Speaker 1: what what you know, what they're actually being prepared and
Speaker 1: groomed to do doesn't great or the politics of which
Speaker 1: you know, like this is this movie was made during
Speaker 1: the first Bush administration. This movie came out six months
Speaker 1: after nine eleven. Like the context for what is going
Speaker 1: on here is very intentionally, I feel not stated. I
Speaker 1: also was wondering they I was wondering if they were
Speaker 1: going to say the name of the president because they
Speaker 1: asked twice. We're like, who who is in charge of
Speaker 1: the military the president of the United States? Like because
Speaker 1: no one was wanting to say George W. Bush at
Speaker 1: this time or now? Really so yeah, it is. It
Speaker 1: is a slice of propaganda that I find kind. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess I will say it is not the worst.
Speaker 1: It wasn't as bad as it could have been. But
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, where I feel like the
Speaker 1: setting of this works is in like this setting really
Speaker 1: works for the queer reading we were discussing where, you know,
Speaker 1: as the symbolism of like someone trying to assert their
Speaker 1: individuality and feel confident in themselves in a very oppressive
Speaker 1: judge environment. I feel like it works really well for
Speaker 1: that setup. But in terms of just kind of the
Speaker 1: flat read of pro military and like the commandant is
Speaker 1: probably a really nice guy and you know, like all
Speaker 1: this stuff, Um yeah it's military propaganda. Uh, that's like that.
Speaker 1: I was like blown away with how much that ends
Speaker 1: up being a part because again the movie, I feel
Speaker 1: like the movie is setting you up for Kelly being
Speaker 1: the one to come in and disrupt the rigidity and
Speaker 1: just like fluence changed, or at least I thought, I
Speaker 1: mean at least because I honestly forgot how this movie ended.
Speaker 1: I forgot about the dad off the cliff, like just
Speaker 1: all this not memorable plot points, but like the fact
Speaker 1: that she truly affects zero changed at this school nothing
Speaker 1: and instead she she gets brainwashed. She's like this thing
Speaker 1: that I thought was really ridiculous of throwing rifles around
Speaker 1: is actually my new favorite hobby. And she even like
Speaker 1: in the beginning of the movie, she she's Kelly is
Speaker 1: a comedic genius. She makes a bunch of really funny jokes.
Speaker 1: For example, I wrote down a couple of my favorites.
Speaker 1: She's like up on a ledge during the course, and
Speaker 1: she's like, she's like, I hate heights. I'm even hoping
Speaker 1: to not get too tall. Hilarious. Um, she says, my
Speaker 1: mom and Joe met at a wedding and they liked
Speaker 1: it so much they decided to have one of their own.
Speaker 1: She's making she's cracking jokes constantly, and then over the
Speaker 1: course of the movie, as she's getting again like more
Speaker 1: indoctrinated into this military ideology, she like, I feel like
Speaker 1: just like starts to lose her personality, her like vibrant, bubbly,
Speaker 1: like jokey, creative self, and she like she adopts that
Speaker 1: like military speech that they're expected to speak in where
Speaker 1: she's like a permission to speak this cadet has an
Speaker 1: idea like all that she doesn't lose it entirely, but like,
Speaker 1: which is I would it would have been so scary
Speaker 1: if we'd like just lost Hillary Duff in the process
Speaker 1: of it. But yeah, I mean it is kind of
Speaker 1: weird for a movie that seems to be at least
Speaker 1: attempting to challenge like, oh, the military doesn't you know,
Speaker 1: like beat the personality out of you, But like there
Speaker 1: is something there is a net loss in her and
Speaker 1: I feel like that is framed as a good thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like a good thing that I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's Cadet Kelly, I don't know, it's you
Speaker 1: take Cadet Kelly out of candet sicle, what's the movie?
Speaker 1: But but it is military propaganda, and we recognize that. Yes,
Speaker 1: there's also a scene where she's in a classroom, and
Speaker 1: we don't get many of these scenes when she's like
Speaker 1: actually learning stuff that like a military school would teach you,
Speaker 1: but there is The rear is good. Yes, Okay, the
Speaker 1: language used here is really funny. But so the teacher
Speaker 1: is talking about the Korean War and he's describing this
Speaker 1: thing and it feels so hilariously defensive where he's like, um,
Speaker 1: we didn't retreat. That thing wasn't a retreat. It was
Speaker 1: an advance to the rear. But it was actually super
Speaker 1: awesome that we did that because it was like really
Speaker 1: on purpose and not at all a failure. It was
Speaker 1: actually a brilliant strategy. And it's like, this is what
Speaker 1: you're teaching children, Like, are you kidding me? Well, I
Speaker 1: mean every American school teaches bullshit revisionist history, but this
Speaker 1: was funny. This was funny because it also wasn't very
Speaker 1: well written. Uh it was like, actually it was we
Speaker 1: were It was also it was good and you're like
Speaker 1: all right, and then Kelly's like vo is like I
Speaker 1: didn't realize that there was so many lessons from the
Speaker 1: military they were applicable to my own life. My favorite,
Speaker 1: my favorite Hillary Duff voiceover is when she first gets
Speaker 1: there and then it's like it's almost like a Lizzie
Speaker 1: McGuire cut away, but there's no cutaway. It's just uh
Speaker 1: like static shot on on Hillary Duff and it says, Hello,
Speaker 1: where can I get a Cafe mocha? You're just like, okay,
Speaker 1: Hillary Duff, relaxed. I was so confused by that because
Speaker 1: I thought she was saying it out loud. It was
Speaker 1: like diagetic dialogue. But it's but then it's like you
Speaker 1: see her lips not moving, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess this is voice over. It was it was
Speaker 1: that was that was right, and but it's weird. I
Speaker 1: feel like that was almost a weird reference to Lizzie
Speaker 1: McGuire because there's cutaways in that show, but it cuts
Speaker 1: away to a cartoon that is her inner monologue, but
Speaker 1: in this one it doesn't cut well, is that what
Speaker 1: how happens? And I've never seen Lizzie McGuire, so I
Speaker 1: have I don't understand how it works. So the end,
Speaker 1: one of the writers and this also had written on
Speaker 1: Lizzie McGuire, I believe, Yeah. So so they like will
Speaker 1: cut away to a cartoon Lizzie and she'll say like
Speaker 1: a cute comment, and it'll cut back to live action Lizzy,
Speaker 1: and this movie, I think, attempts to do that, but
Speaker 1: it's not an episode of Lizzie McGuire, so you're not
Speaker 1: cutting away to a cartoon. So it's just often a
Speaker 1: static shot at Hillary Duff's not speaking face, but you
Speaker 1: hear her voice and you're just like, what is this? Uh?
Speaker 1: I have? Okay? So I wanted to shout out one
Speaker 1: of the writers of this movie. She has come up
Speaker 1: on this show before. Kind of an iconic writer of
Speaker 1: many generations. Gail parent Co wrote this movie. Um, we've
Speaker 1: talked about her. I forget why we've talked about her before,
Speaker 1: but she she has written a lot of really really
Speaker 1: famous UM shows targeted at women. Specifically, she read on
Speaker 1: the Carol Burnett Show, she wrote on the Mary Tyler
Speaker 1: Moore Show, she wrote on The Golden Girls, she wrote
Speaker 1: on Road, she wrote on and then she also wrote
Speaker 1: this movie. She wrote Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen. Uh.
Speaker 1: She's written a lot of like really iconic female centered stories,
Speaker 1: so I was thrilled to see. I didn't know that
Speaker 1: she had had a hand in Cadet Kelly, but you
Speaker 1: have to assume that she you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: the very strong bonds between women which we've discussed at
Speaker 1: this point um can be attributed to her, and so
Speaker 1: I wanted to shout her out. The other writer of
Speaker 1: this movie, his name is Michael Walsh, and he seems
Speaker 1: to have been a journalist and then wrote this movie.
Speaker 1: I don't know, uh shrug, shrug. And then sorry, Larry
Speaker 1: Shaw is the director, and so he had directed episodes
Speaker 1: of the McGuire I see, So that's kind of I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess that's all you really need for a background.
Speaker 1: Although you said earlier there was a female editor, there was.
Speaker 1: It seems like I'm going to just give the majority
Speaker 1: of the credit for the writing of this movie to
Speaker 1: Gail Parents and then say Michael Walsh was brought in
Speaker 1: to write the Dad's I don't know, um, but I
Speaker 1: was happy to see that this movie was written by women.
Speaker 1: I think that that is something that you see in
Speaker 1: d coms more frequently too, is that, um, you see
Speaker 1: women writing stories for women and girls. Um again, because
Speaker 1: d com is more of an experimental environment. And also, uh,
Speaker 1: you don't need to pay the employees as much, so
Speaker 1: I'm sure that Disney is always thrilled to pay uh
Speaker 1: non male identifying people way less. So there's that. But yeah, um, well,
Speaker 1: speaking of the dads, can we talk about the parents
Speaker 1: in their storylines in general? Because there's some really messy,
Speaker 1: wacky stuff going on here. We already talked about We
Speaker 1: talked about the two dads in love. We talked about
Speaker 1: the two dads, and then we talked about the Gregnancy.
Speaker 1: So the mom I mean, and I want to be
Speaker 1: careful in the way we've talked about it a little
Speaker 1: bit already. But it's like, like we were saying earlier,
Speaker 1: we don't want to like disrespect the choice to be
Speaker 1: a homemaker and to want to be uh stay at
Speaker 1: home parents, spouse whatever it is, like, definitely, it just
Speaker 1: the way it's framed in this movie is very abrupt
Speaker 1: and kind of confusing. And I don't know, like, as
Speaker 1: someone who was very hesitant and resistant to be a
Speaker 1: military spouse, this was what I was afraid of where
Speaker 1: and and and again like if you were a military
Speaker 1: spouse yourself, like we would love to hear from you
Speaker 1: and hear like is Cannet Kelly's mom at all reflective
Speaker 1: of your experience or was it just bad writing? But
Speaker 1: but there is certainly an expectation, or at least a
Speaker 1: trope that you have to drop everything in your life
Speaker 1: and commit yourself to your spouse's career, which is very
Speaker 1: much what happens in this movie. We don't really have
Speaker 1: and I think my issue with it is we don't
Speaker 1: have any idea really how she feels about it or
Speaker 1: like what really was she doing before? And why did
Speaker 1: she choose to leave this life outside of just relationship?
Speaker 1: Like you have to imagine if she's being presented to
Speaker 1: us as this like cool single mom prior to this,
Speaker 1: like what is she leaving behind? What was her life
Speaker 1: before this? And like you just don't know and so
Speaker 1: and and then you see her struggling to adjust to
Speaker 1: her new life. Demonstrated how to put on an apron
Speaker 1: like and and so it seems like she is struggling,
Speaker 1: but it's just kind of presented as like funny, and
Speaker 1: so I just I don't know, it just ended up
Speaker 1: kind of making me feel like confused and sad for
Speaker 1: her in a way that it was just like, you know,
Speaker 1: just as much as Kelly her life has been completely uprooted,
Speaker 1: it seems like she doesn't even leave that house that
Speaker 1: they're living in, so she doesn't really have a support
Speaker 1: system around her. Like it would have been nice to see,
Speaker 1: like maybe she becomes because like a very common thing
Speaker 1: is like a military wives or military spouses will hang
Speaker 1: out together and like there's a support network there, and
Speaker 1: it would have been cool to like even see that
Speaker 1: referenced in passing that she had found a community that
Speaker 1: she wasn't just like left alone with the stove all
Speaker 1: day trying to learn how to make turkey and that's
Speaker 1: her journey, and the movie is she gets pregnant and
Speaker 1: she learned how to cook turkey. Like I just don't
Speaker 1: love that, and I wish that since this movie does
Speaker 1: seem to have a mission to reflect the American military experience,
Speaker 1: which it doesn't obviously. I mean, I just I just
Speaker 1: felt like she was really left, to quote Bradley Cooper
Speaker 1: by the wayside in this plot, and she no, especially
Speaker 1: because like the relationship that Kelly has with both of
Speaker 1: her father figures end up being way more important to
Speaker 1: the story than the relationship with her mother, And I
Speaker 1: don't understand why that is. I don't know why that
Speaker 1: choice was made because with similar to Kelly, her mother
Speaker 1: is also having to adjust to this like military lifestyle.
Speaker 1: So why couldn't they like why why couldn't we see
Speaker 1: them bond over that further or like discuss this new
Speaker 1: lifestyle that they're having to adjust to, and and instead
Speaker 1: we get this like weird like dad fell off a
Speaker 1: cliff and I have to teach my stepdad how to
Speaker 1: be a father. And it's like, why is that your responsibility? Why?
Speaker 1: Like why did she marry this? Like why did Kelly's
Speaker 1: mom marry a guy who like has no emotional intelligence whatsoever?
Speaker 1: Like well, and I gotta be honest, I don't really
Speaker 1: give a ship about I mean, I know he's important
Speaker 1: to the plot theoretically because he has to eventually be
Speaker 1: flung off a cliff, but I don't care about the original,
Speaker 1: Like I don't the original that I don't care about
Speaker 1: Kelly's biological dad. And I also don't think he's as
Speaker 1: good a parent as the movie makes it a mission
Speaker 1: to me. I mean, and this is like inherent to
Speaker 1: not just decom but children's media in general, of like
Speaker 1: mom does the mean thing, dad does the fun thing.
Speaker 1: Because what like, like we discussed a million times, um,
Speaker 1: it's a societal expectation of female parents to do the
Speaker 1: majority of the parenting, and therefore they're kind of demonized
Speaker 1: because that means they're doing most of the discipline. Anyways,
Speaker 1: this movie is kind of no exception where Kelly his
Speaker 1: dad is like fun and goofy and they're both klutzy
Speaker 1: and they both trip a lot, and you're like yeah
Speaker 1: and uh, but already it's like he does not put
Speaker 1: up a fight for Kelly to not have to go
Speaker 1: to military school. He prioritizes his career above his daughter.
Speaker 1: He's busy going off to um Chad and Sudan and
Speaker 1: mean Mar and Thailand, which he says in an accent
Speaker 1: as he's like describing the countries he's going to. He's
Speaker 1: like speaking in some nondescript accent and what it's just
Speaker 1: like that whatever you're doing, so you're being racist. Yes
Speaker 1: he is. He's being raised as also it's very clear
Speaker 1: that the places he's going are just sound stages in
Speaker 1: Burbank in any case, like yeah, it's and so he
Speaker 1: like prioritizes his career above her. He does a racist
Speaker 1: accent in the first scene he appears in. He just
Speaker 1: kind of shows up when he feels like it, and
Speaker 1: then Kelly is so thrilled, and then it's presented as
Speaker 1: if like, oh, this is how like Ree Cole is
Speaker 1: going to learn how to be a father, and you're like,
Speaker 1: this is actually really not an example that you would
Speaker 1: necessarily want, Like he has a better personality than Gary Cole,
Speaker 1: but I feel like that is something that happens with
Speaker 1: like manipulative, neglectful parents all the time. Where I was
Speaker 1: actually kind of feeling for Gary Cole in that scene
Speaker 1: because he is emotionally stunted deeply, but at least he
Speaker 1: is present and he is you know, he can be
Speaker 1: counted upon in Kelly's life, whereas her dad is just
Speaker 1: like he's just not around, he's just off wherever. So
Speaker 1: I'm anti Kelly's fun dad. I am also like you said,
Speaker 1: like I am anti the dad's taking up all the
Speaker 1: parental real estate. I mean, fortunately, most of the movie
Speaker 1: is truly like Kelly, Jennifer, Carla all having crushes on
Speaker 1: each other, all like falling in love. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: like when we zoom out, it usually is the dad.
Speaker 1: I guess I sort of appreciate Gary Cole's journey and
Speaker 1: this of like being able to appreciate his stepdaughter's individualism,
Speaker 1: but it just takes up too much space. I don't know,
Speaker 1: Like it's just ultimately I'm kind of like, what is
Speaker 1: your relationship? I would have loved to see his relationship
Speaker 1: with with his wife with Kelly's mom a little more, because,
Speaker 1: like you, I don't understand what brings them together, because
Speaker 1: we just don't really know enough about her to know
Speaker 1: what about him is appealing to her. We know a
Speaker 1: lot about him. Also, he should be constantly like thanking
Speaker 1: her and kissing her feet for being like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for this huge compromise that you
Speaker 1: and Kelly made by like uprooting your successful life in
Speaker 1: New York City to live with me while I'm a
Speaker 1: commandant at this school. Like again, the whole compromises that
Speaker 1: these women make the just for Gary Cole with a
Speaker 1: mustache and spawn. Um. Yeah, it's it's it's not ideal,
Speaker 1: and yeah there's like Kelly and her mother both need
Speaker 1: to I mean, we talked about this already, but they
Speaker 1: have to make too many compromises. Yes. The last thing
Speaker 1: I want to mention is the Titanic reference Hello in
Speaker 1: the song that happens both at the very beginning of
Speaker 1: the movie, during the dance routine that Kelly and Amanda
Speaker 1: are doing at the art school, and then again at
Speaker 1: the end um during the weirdly edited um dance routine
Speaker 1: at the gun recital. I do think, not before before
Speaker 1: we come for the editor, I do think that the
Speaker 1: movie was pretty significantly re edited for Disney plus my recollection,
Speaker 1: and I think he a referenced this a little bit.
Speaker 1: Was that the music at the end was swapped out.
Speaker 1: I think it was originally a different song, which is
Speaker 1: why the editing kind of looks funky. I think it
Speaker 1: was like that editing was SYNCD up to a different song.
Speaker 1: Maybe Disney lost the rights to but sound off in
Speaker 1: the comments if you agree. I sort of remember, I
Speaker 1: don't remember that opening song being in it twice. I
Speaker 1: think that they just kind of piped it in at
Speaker 1: the end, because they still had the rights. They're just like,
Speaker 1: oh we yeah, we have this one. Um. But in
Speaker 1: any case, the lyrics, which I can't make sense of,
Speaker 1: are as follows. I wear a disguise. I'm just your
Speaker 1: average Jane. The super doesn't stand for model, but that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I'm plain. If all you see is how
Speaker 1: I look, you miss the super chick within and I
Speaker 1: christen you Titanic, underestimate and swim. I don't know what
Speaker 1: that means, but I was like, there's a Titanic. If
Speaker 1: you don't understand what an amazingly empowered woman I am,
Speaker 1: you're going to drown around the Titanic. I think that
Speaker 1: that's what it's saying. I don't agree with this message.
Speaker 1: I don't endorse that lyric, but I do love a
Speaker 1: good Titanic shout out yes, um. Well, anyway, as far
Speaker 1: as Kelly goes, I think that was all I had.
Speaker 1: Did you have anything else? No? No, I uh, we
Speaker 1: should figure out if this movie passes the Bactel test.
Speaker 1: It does, it's super does. It's very often to female
Speaker 1: identifying characters with names talking about the military, talking about
Speaker 1: the famously genderless rightfuls and various things. Yes, this movie
Speaker 1: passes quite a bit, and it is also like I mean,
Speaker 1: it passes between Kelly and Carla, it passes between Kelly
Speaker 1: and Gloria, it passes between Kelly and Jennifer. Mom passes
Speaker 1: a bunch. But what would we rate it on our
Speaker 1: neckles scale? This is kind of challenging if you look
Speaker 1: at it from the standpoint of the movie focusing on
Speaker 1: the relationships between several female characters and how you have
Speaker 1: a lot of budding friendships or a lot of budding
Speaker 1: romances depending on how you look at it. The fact
Speaker 1: that it doesn't wedge in a romance with Brad. But
Speaker 1: you know, these are reasons to like this movie. It
Speaker 1: would be nice to have a I don't know exactly
Speaker 1: what the intentions of the writers were, but either way
Speaker 1: it would have been it would be nice to have
Speaker 1: a similar movie where different characters actually identify themselves as queer,
Speaker 1: and then we could have seen actual queer visibility on
Speaker 1: screen in a movie intended for young people, like think
Speaker 1: how cool it would be if you know this was
Speaker 1: a story about a bunch of queer kids in military school,
Speaker 1: you know, a place where queerness I have to imagine
Speaker 1: is not tolerated. But you know, like if a bunch
Speaker 1: of queer kids find each other and band together and
Speaker 1: support each other and maybe kiss. Sometimes I feel like
Speaker 1: there's a subplot to that effect in UM that show
Speaker 1: sex Education. Anyway, I need to finish watching it. But
Speaker 1: the point is, this is a dcon This is a
Speaker 1: Disney movie, and you know, Disney was never going to
Speaker 1: do that in two thousand two or in present day.
Speaker 1: So even you know, years after this, we've referenced that
Speaker 1: Kenny Ortega interview where Kenny Ortega, a queer director, was
Speaker 1: not allowed to have a queer character in high school musical.
Speaker 1: So it's like this, you know, is certainly not a
Speaker 1: new trend, but it is I feel like, yeah, certainly
Speaker 1: the closest like I mean, according to the third closest
Speaker 1: we have, um queer d com Yes. Um. So that
Speaker 1: aspect of the movie is what I really latched onto.
Speaker 1: The other very important part of the movie, which is
Speaker 1: the very pro military propaganda message that it is perpetuating,
Speaker 1: is not something I appreciate, Like, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: like again, if you want to join the military, that's
Speaker 1: your choice, but I would like in a lot of
Speaker 1: like military ideology to police ideology. It's a lot of
Speaker 1: the same horribly racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, all the horrible things.
Speaker 1: It's it's basically one and the same to me, So
Speaker 1: I am going to take a very brave anti familiaritary
Speaker 1: industrial complex attacked in the comments. Um So, the fact
Speaker 1: that this movie is like again the story being that
Speaker 1: like the more Kelly is in military school, the less
Speaker 1: her individuality and personality remains intact, is um scary and upsetting.
Speaker 1: But like the movie framing that is like, it's actually
Speaker 1: awesome that she finally has structure, and it's like it's
Speaker 1: not as though she was a bad kid before. She
Speaker 1: wasn't misbehaving, she was on the structure. And the words structure,
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like that's just kind of like
Speaker 1: a little military dog whistle for like having the personality
Speaker 1: beat out of you. There's a difference between structure and
Speaker 1: military structure. Yes, yes, yes, yes, so all of that,
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I don't know. With all of that in mind,
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to have to give it like
Speaker 1: two wow, okay, or maybe less. Why what were you
Speaker 1: going to give it? And then I'll copy you. I'm
Speaker 1: kidding I'm not going to tell you you pick yours,
Speaker 1: all right, I'll give it to Well. There's also I mean,
Speaker 1: between like Carla and Gloria, you do have a few
Speaker 1: women of color in the movie, but they are also
Speaker 1: they are not given nearly as much narrative significance or
Speaker 1: focus as the two white women leads of Kelly and Jennifer. Um,
Speaker 1: so we don't love that. Um, I'm gonna go down
Speaker 1: to one and a half. I enjoy this movie. I don't.
Speaker 1: It's not that I hate this movie. I actually like
Speaker 1: had a fun time watching it. But there's a lot
Speaker 1: of like very early two thousand's Disney, like Disney has
Speaker 1: its stink all over it. I don't know. It's one
Speaker 1: and a half. And I'll give both of those nipples
Speaker 1: to the dance off that happens in the quad. Uh.
Speaker 1: This is I think our most significant deviation in a while.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with three um because I absolutely I
Speaker 1: need to dock it for being early two thousands girl power, feminism,
Speaker 1: military propaganda, which, while I completely disagree with it, I
Speaker 1: mean you've gotta give it points for being that specific
Speaker 1: of the the boxes they're trying to check in the
Speaker 1: way that this movie is being written. Um, I do think,
Speaker 1: like I I obviously I am not pro military industrial complex.
Speaker 1: I I do think that it is of muddled, not
Speaker 1: good attempt to try to represent military families on screen,
Speaker 1: because while I am not pro military, I do think,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like kids who are in military families
Speaker 1: also deserves some representation on screen. What I don't like
Speaker 1: is that the way that it's represented is so uncritical
Speaker 1: of the military and so pro like, well, whatever your
Speaker 1: soldier parent does is the right thing, and you you
Speaker 1: must follow. And it's just deeply uncritical. So it's like
Speaker 1: representation you don't usually see, but it's so unchallenging that
Speaker 1: I feel like it ends up kind of being moot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I would love to see, uh, you know, a
Speaker 1: d coom about a military family's head maybe begins to
Speaker 1: disagree with the military, maybe it has starts to have,
Speaker 1: you know, question it. Because for all the reasons we've
Speaker 1: discussed of how deeply prejudiced and um violent the military
Speaker 1: be towards people who do not conform to their ideal,
Speaker 1: which is uh sis white men says hat white men
Speaker 1: super soldier type, then you're you're going to be punished,
Speaker 1: and this movie frames that punishment as a character building
Speaker 1: thing and not a an abused tactic meant to beat
Speaker 1: the personality out of you. So I do not like that, however,
Speaker 1: Uh but I do like, is I really really really
Speaker 1: like Kelly um and she really spoke to me as
Speaker 1: a kid just as her personality and well, I do
Speaker 1: agree that her personality is diminished by having gone to
Speaker 1: a military school. This movie didn't make me want to
Speaker 1: go to a military school. It made me want to
Speaker 1: be Kelly and maybe kiss a girl like those were
Speaker 1: the things that I took away from this movie as
Speaker 1: a kid, and so those I mean, I might be
Speaker 1: ranking it too high for nostalgia points, but I do
Speaker 1: think that, um, this is like as close to queer
Speaker 1: representation in a deacon that you could get, And in
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, that was just not something that
Speaker 1: you were really getting anywhere else in children's media. So
Speaker 1: even this like coded attempt to to show something. I mean,
Speaker 1: clearly it spoke to a lot of young people because
Speaker 1: we're still talking about it, and you know, Kia still
Speaker 1: has a lot of love for it, and I I mean,
Speaker 1: I like that there are a number of you know,
Speaker 1: like could be richer, but fairly rich relationships between the
Speaker 1: girls that attend the school. I do have an issue
Speaker 1: with I think that it is kind of a classic
Speaker 1: slight to a black character to not make their home
Speaker 1: life or their background really plot relevant or specific enough,
Speaker 1: and so I will dock it for that. Maybe I'm
Speaker 1: giving it a two point seven five, But either way,
Speaker 1: I think that Cadet Kelly does so much that a
Speaker 1: lot of children's media wasn't even attempting to do. And
Speaker 1: so even though it flops in some regards, I appreciate
Speaker 1: the queer reading of this movie, which is, like we
Speaker 1: were saying, it feels basically like text on a rewatch um.
Speaker 1: I love Kelly, I feel to have for her mom,
Speaker 1: and the military industrial complex is scary, and I like
Speaker 1: to think that they both end up getting out of
Speaker 1: the military and starting a small gardening business together. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give it two point seven five, and I'll
Speaker 1: give one nipple to Carla and one nipple to Gloria,
Speaker 1: and my other point seven five nipple to the Greg,
Speaker 1: the baby Greg who was born later, baby Greg who
Speaker 1: may who will probably be loved by I mean, baby
Speaker 1: Greg's parents just when she's like, I'm sure I'll love
Speaker 1: this baby too. I don't know, I know. I was
Speaker 1: just like, she needs to get some time off, like
Speaker 1: this is not okay. Um so yeah, so that's good, Kelly. Sorry,
Speaker 1: there's literally a military plane flying over my house. Well, so,
Speaker 1: thank you again so much to our special guest, Kia Brown.
Speaker 1: Make sure to check out her book, make sure to
Speaker 1: follow her on social media. She's awesome, and she'll be
Speaker 1: back for a main episode at some point, so tune
Speaker 1: in for that. And um yeah, thanks for listening, matrons,
Speaker 1: thanks for your support. Hey,