1
00:00:15,564 --> 00:00:29,044
Speaker 1: Pushkin. Welcome back to Risky Business, a show about making

2
00:00:29,124 --> 00:00:33,004
Speaker 1: better decisions. I'm Maria Kondikova. My regular co host, Nate

3
00:00:33,044 --> 00:00:35,564
Speaker 1: Silver is off this week and instead I'm joined by

4
00:00:35,564 --> 00:00:38,244
Speaker 1: a dear friend, Henry Rich, whom I've known for too

5
00:00:38,324 --> 00:00:38,924
Speaker 1: many years.

6
00:00:39,524 --> 00:00:40,404
Speaker 2: I don't want to age.

7
00:00:40,244 --> 00:00:42,444
Speaker 1: Both of us, but we've known each other since our

8
00:00:42,484 --> 00:00:45,804
Speaker 1: college days. We're very excited to have Henry on today.

9
00:00:46,404 --> 00:00:49,124
Speaker 1: Henry is a serial entrepreneur. He's the head of the

10
00:00:49,164 --> 00:00:52,444
Speaker 1: Oberon Restaurant Group, which has some of my favorite restaurants

11
00:00:52,484 --> 00:00:54,844
Speaker 1: in New York City, and I can't wait to ask

12
00:00:54,924 --> 00:00:58,524
Speaker 1: him about managing risk in one of the world's riskiest industries,

13
00:00:59,204 --> 00:01:03,244
Speaker 1: learning from failure and the motivating force of regret. Henry,

14
00:01:03,284 --> 00:01:04,804
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us.

15
00:01:05,124 --> 00:01:06,604
Speaker 2: Absolute pleasure. Good to see you.

16
00:01:06,804 --> 00:01:09,844
Speaker 1: Good to see you too. So a little bit of background.

17
00:01:09,884 --> 00:01:12,724
Speaker 1: We met at Harvard. I was a freshman and you

18
00:01:12,804 --> 00:01:16,324
Speaker 1: were a senior. You are older than I am rsually,

19
00:01:18,084 --> 00:01:21,564
Speaker 1: and I'd love to actually start before we get you know,

20
00:01:21,604 --> 00:01:26,564
Speaker 1: into everything that you're doing right now. Your background at

21
00:01:26,564 --> 00:01:29,364
Speaker 1: Harvard is one of the most unique that that I know,

22
00:01:30,524 --> 00:01:34,484
Speaker 1: and it's something that I would not have thought that

23
00:01:34,604 --> 00:01:37,924
Speaker 1: you know today you'd be a successful entrepreneur kind of

24
00:01:37,964 --> 00:01:39,364
Speaker 1: doing what you're doing right now.

25
00:01:39,364 --> 00:01:40,324
Speaker 2: Because you majored.

26
00:01:40,324 --> 00:01:43,244
Speaker 1: You created your own major, and it was in esthetics,

27
00:01:43,324 --> 00:01:44,924
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly.

28
00:01:45,244 --> 00:01:50,804
Speaker 2: Yes, how I got from that to being an entrepreneur

29
00:01:52,324 --> 00:01:55,924
Speaker 2: was in part lack of other options, but also I

30
00:01:55,964 --> 00:02:01,404
Speaker 2: think I just I left with this really strong kind

31
00:02:01,444 --> 00:02:05,924
Speaker 2: of individual almost you know, existential streak that left me

32
00:02:06,124 --> 00:02:09,284
Speaker 2: working for myself. And you know, the default for working

33
00:02:09,324 --> 00:02:13,284
Speaker 2: for yourself is to create these entities around me that

34
00:02:13,324 --> 00:02:15,404
Speaker 2: I could you know, manage and live my life.

35
00:02:15,684 --> 00:02:19,484
Speaker 1: So yeah, so that makes sense. It's a little bit

36
00:02:19,524 --> 00:02:21,644
Speaker 1: different from you know, most entrepreneurs who are like, you know,

37
00:02:21,724 --> 00:02:24,084
Speaker 1: I majored in economics or I majored in business, and

38
00:02:24,204 --> 00:02:27,004
Speaker 1: this is what I want to do. Your first company,

39
00:02:27,044 --> 00:02:28,524
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was actually your first company,

40
00:02:28,524 --> 00:02:31,564
Speaker 1: but your first company that I'm aware of, was a

41
00:02:31,604 --> 00:02:35,484
Speaker 1: mint company called Oral Fixation. And I remember you graduated

42
00:02:35,524 --> 00:02:38,204
Speaker 1: and you had come back and you gave you know,

43
00:02:38,284 --> 00:02:40,484
Speaker 1: me and and other friends who were still in college

44
00:02:40,644 --> 00:02:44,844
Speaker 1: these little boxes of mints. The Mohido flavors were my favorite.

45
00:02:45,044 --> 00:02:48,644
Speaker 1: So talk us through how you decided to create a

46
00:02:48,684 --> 00:02:51,524
Speaker 1: mint company, how that went, and what that taught you

47
00:02:51,564 --> 00:02:54,524
Speaker 1: about risk and about kind of and about the world

48
00:02:54,524 --> 00:02:57,564
Speaker 1: of business, because obviously that is also quite different from

49
00:02:57,604 --> 00:03:00,924
Speaker 1: the restaurant world, even though we're both both are consumables.

50
00:03:01,444 --> 00:03:04,484
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny. I rarely talked about this

51
00:03:04,484 --> 00:03:06,844
Speaker 2: this first company. I would say, I learned a lot

52
00:03:06,884 --> 00:03:09,804
Speaker 2: about hedging and managing risk in terms of, you know,

53
00:03:09,884 --> 00:03:13,124
Speaker 2: what not to do. So I decided to start a

54
00:03:13,564 --> 00:03:17,084
Speaker 2: you know, small manufacturing company in a mature industry where

55
00:03:17,084 --> 00:03:21,004
Speaker 2: most of our competitors were nineteenth century, multi billion dollar

56
00:03:21,044 --> 00:03:25,404
Speaker 2: conglomerates like Wrigley, Mars, you know, Cadbury hershey NeSSI, these

57
00:03:25,484 --> 00:03:30,484
Speaker 2: kind of companies, thinking that through I guess, just working

58
00:03:30,524 --> 00:03:34,204
Speaker 2: hard and being smart and being you know, tasteful, that

59
00:03:34,204 --> 00:03:39,164
Speaker 2: we could somehow dislodge these competitors. It was a terrible

60
00:03:39,564 --> 00:03:43,164
Speaker 2: idea because we had to do our own manufacturing. We

61
00:03:43,164 --> 00:03:45,724
Speaker 2: were selling into you know, thirty five countries, so I

62
00:03:45,724 --> 00:03:48,404
Speaker 2: had to figure out the trade piece of it. All

63
00:03:48,404 --> 00:03:51,644
Speaker 2: the regulations, had to do the consumer marketing, you know,

64
00:03:51,804 --> 00:03:57,484
Speaker 2: manage multiple territories and channels like gift hotels, coffee shops,

65
00:03:57,964 --> 00:04:00,724
Speaker 2: attend you know, hundreds of trade shows. I would say,

66
00:04:00,724 --> 00:04:04,684
Speaker 2: what I learned from that experience is not to do

67
00:04:05,284 --> 00:04:07,964
Speaker 2: just one thing. Because I really did put all my

68
00:04:08,044 --> 00:04:11,844
Speaker 2: eggs in the basket of this company, which even if

69
00:04:11,884 --> 00:04:13,964
Speaker 2: it had been you know, in a smarter category like

70
00:04:14,204 --> 00:04:18,164
Speaker 2: yogurt or chocolate or somewhere where companies actually get acquired,

71
00:04:18,764 --> 00:04:22,204
Speaker 2: it just it was totally susceptible to the Great Recession

72
00:04:22,764 --> 00:04:25,764
Speaker 2: in ways that I didn't appreciate because I was, you know,

73
00:04:25,804 --> 00:04:31,004
Speaker 2: a hebristic, twenty something year old. Seventy five percent of

74
00:04:31,044 --> 00:04:34,444
Speaker 2: our sales dropped from September to October two thousand and eight.

75
00:04:35,404 --> 00:04:38,364
Speaker 2: We literally had a leave in Brothers private label Mint

76
00:04:38,444 --> 00:04:42,684
Speaker 2: for their office in Japan. We had warehouses ransacked in India,

77
00:04:42,764 --> 00:04:45,844
Speaker 2: and a food Riot, our largest British distributor, was acquired.

78
00:04:45,924 --> 00:04:48,964
Speaker 2: Their main customers were acquired by Icelandic banks. We were

79
00:04:49,004 --> 00:04:51,724
Speaker 2: selling in countries whose currencies dropped twenty thirty percent against

80
00:04:51,724 --> 00:04:55,324
Speaker 2: a dollar. So I really realized that I just had

81
00:04:55,484 --> 00:04:58,284
Speaker 2: no idea what I was doing at all and sort

82
00:04:58,324 --> 00:05:01,124
Speaker 2: of deserved to fail catastrophically, which is which is what

83
00:05:01,204 --> 00:05:05,324
Speaker 2: happened with that company. But you know, I did learn

84
00:05:05,364 --> 00:05:07,884
Speaker 2: how to do things on my own. I did learn

85
00:05:07,884 --> 00:05:09,684
Speaker 2: a little bit about the food and beverage business, and

86
00:05:09,684 --> 00:05:12,764
Speaker 2: it sort of you know, set me up for wanting

87
00:05:12,804 --> 00:05:15,884
Speaker 2: to do something related but not you know, starting a

88
00:05:15,884 --> 00:05:18,444
Speaker 2: manufacturing company with no money, which was just you know,

89
00:05:18,484 --> 00:05:21,404
Speaker 2: an insane thing to do, but fun, fun in no way.

90
00:05:23,444 --> 00:05:25,964
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's very rare to talk to someone

91
00:05:26,324 --> 00:05:28,244
Speaker 1: and obviously you've had a lot of success since then.

92
00:05:28,804 --> 00:05:31,444
Speaker 1: Who who takes responsibility and says, you know, I deserve

93
00:05:31,484 --> 00:05:36,044
Speaker 1: to fail? Can you just unpack that a little bit?

94
00:05:36,604 --> 00:05:38,604
Speaker 2: Yeah, there should never have got off It got off

95
00:05:38,604 --> 00:05:41,724
Speaker 2: the ground through through sheer willpower that should never have existed.

96
00:05:41,764 --> 00:05:45,004
Speaker 2: It should never have survived for whatever six years. I

97
00:05:45,204 --> 00:05:48,204
Speaker 2: would say the most critical thing that I failed to

98
00:05:48,284 --> 00:05:51,444
Speaker 2: understand is that what I thought I was contributing to

99
00:05:51,444 --> 00:05:55,684
Speaker 2: this category, which was creating a product that actually had

100
00:05:55,764 --> 00:06:00,204
Speaker 2: more personality, was significantly higher quality. Wasn't cutting every corner

101
00:06:00,804 --> 00:06:04,524
Speaker 2: to hit the masses. These weren't things that were actually

102
00:06:04,724 --> 00:06:08,604
Speaker 2: important for the success. I thought by creating a better

103
00:06:08,644 --> 00:06:12,604
Speaker 2: design and you know, fifty cents instead of like two

104
00:06:12,684 --> 00:06:15,924
Speaker 2: cents on the actual ingredients, we could you know, charge

105
00:06:15,924 --> 00:06:18,524
Speaker 2: three dollars instead of two fifty and pass all of

106
00:06:18,564 --> 00:06:22,284
Speaker 2: this value onto consumers. But this isn't This isn't a

107
00:06:22,284 --> 00:06:26,204
Speaker 2: market segment where taste matters at all. What matters is

108
00:06:27,084 --> 00:06:32,164
Speaker 2: distribution and power. I had this really interesting experience where,

109
00:06:32,284 --> 00:06:34,124
Speaker 2: you know, we were doing the Mohto mint and then

110
00:06:34,484 --> 00:06:36,564
Speaker 2: Wriglely would come out with mit Mohido and they would

111
00:06:36,564 --> 00:06:39,004
Speaker 2: try to trademark and we did this, you know, fabulous

112
00:06:39,124 --> 00:06:41,924
Speaker 2: fruit flavor. They did fibulous for TEENI tried to trademarket

113
00:06:42,404 --> 00:06:44,044
Speaker 2: and they were sort of coming after us, and I

114
00:06:44,044 --> 00:06:46,404
Speaker 2: didn't really understand. I was like, have they no shame,

115
00:06:46,604 --> 00:06:49,924
Speaker 2: no honor? And one of these people came up to

116
00:06:49,964 --> 00:06:53,484
Speaker 2: us at a show where they grabbed one of our

117
00:06:53,524 --> 00:06:56,004
Speaker 2: tins and they didn't even bother turning their tag around.

118
00:06:56,084 --> 00:06:58,004
Speaker 2: And I was like, hey, like, I know what you

119
00:06:58,044 --> 00:07:01,524
Speaker 2: guys do. And the guy looked at me and he's like, yeah, well,

120
00:07:01,564 --> 00:07:03,844
Speaker 2: who has forty seven thousand registers at Walmart? And he

121
00:07:03,884 --> 00:07:06,524
Speaker 2: walked away and I realized I was just I was

122
00:07:06,724 --> 00:07:12,004
Speaker 2: in the wrong place where nobody was asking for a

123
00:07:12,044 --> 00:07:15,604
Speaker 2: better product in this category and it just simply didn't

124
00:07:15,644 --> 00:07:18,564
Speaker 2: matter as opposed to a restaurant, where you know, you

125
00:07:18,564 --> 00:07:20,404
Speaker 2: can have a restaurant that's been there for fifty years

126
00:07:20,404 --> 00:07:24,364
Speaker 2: if you open a slightly better restaurant right next to it,

127
00:07:24,564 --> 00:07:27,684
Speaker 2: your level of taste, your level of execution, your level

128
00:07:27,684 --> 00:07:31,004
Speaker 2: of hard work actually does matter, and people will just

129
00:07:31,044 --> 00:07:34,604
Speaker 2: gravitate to the thing that is slightly better and it's

130
00:07:34,724 --> 00:07:38,084
Speaker 2: much less gated. And I just didn't know that I

131
00:07:38,164 --> 00:07:42,884
Speaker 2: was entering a profoundly gated industry without any of the

132
00:07:42,924 --> 00:07:45,004
Speaker 2: tools that I would have needed to succeed. And the

133
00:07:45,004 --> 00:07:47,644
Speaker 2: world didn't need it, right, And I took a lesson

134
00:07:47,684 --> 00:07:50,524
Speaker 2: that I shouldn't do stuff just to because I think

135
00:07:50,564 --> 00:07:54,604
Speaker 2: it's funny, or to be independent. If it doesn't have

136
00:07:54,684 --> 00:07:56,484
Speaker 2: another reason to be, it's going to fail and it

137
00:07:56,484 --> 00:07:57,004
Speaker 2: should fail.

138
00:07:57,124 --> 00:07:57,324
Speaker 1: Right.

139
00:07:57,564 --> 00:08:00,084
Speaker 2: The world doesn't need, didn't need another breath Man company.

140
00:08:00,164 --> 00:08:04,124
Speaker 2: And that was a you know, strong lesson. And maybe

141
00:08:04,164 --> 00:08:06,244
Speaker 2: people would say, like, hey, the lasting Brooklyn needs is

142
00:08:06,284 --> 00:08:08,644
Speaker 2: another wine bar. But these are things that can be done,

143
00:08:08,844 --> 00:08:10,844
Speaker 2: you know, on a scale from one to one hundred

144
00:08:10,884 --> 00:08:13,604
Speaker 2: and more or less. Well yeah, yeah, well.

145
00:08:13,484 --> 00:08:15,684
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that transition. So you had a business

146
00:08:15,684 --> 00:08:19,924
Speaker 1: that failed, right, as you say, like epic failure, something.

147
00:08:19,684 --> 00:08:23,084
Speaker 2: That I was holding debts that I didn't really have

148
00:08:23,084 --> 00:08:25,724
Speaker 2: a plan to pay off. So I had a timeline.

149
00:08:26,044 --> 00:08:27,844
Speaker 2: You know with like basically within two years that I

150
00:08:27,884 --> 00:08:30,084
Speaker 2: had to figure it out. So a lot of pressure.

151
00:08:30,444 --> 00:08:34,004
Speaker 2: Two thousand and eight, two thousand and ninety ten, you know,

152
00:08:34,164 --> 00:08:37,164
Speaker 2: not not a great environment. Although many amazing companies were

153
00:08:37,164 --> 00:08:37,804
Speaker 2: founded then, but.

154
00:08:37,924 --> 00:08:41,084
Speaker 1: Yeah, so not a great environment. You have debt, you

155
00:08:41,084 --> 00:08:43,764
Speaker 1: had a failed business, and so you decide, of all things,

156
00:08:43,804 --> 00:08:46,524
Speaker 1: to go into the restaurant business. Henry, what is the

157
00:08:46,564 --> 00:08:49,084
Speaker 1: rate of failure in the restaurant business?

158
00:08:49,564 --> 00:08:52,604
Speaker 2: You know, I think something like ninety percent, but I

159
00:08:52,604 --> 00:08:54,444
Speaker 2: can't remember if it's like ninety percent in the first

160
00:08:54,484 --> 00:09:01,244
Speaker 2: year or whatever. But yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, which

161
00:09:01,244 --> 00:09:02,564
Speaker 2: makes sense because.

162
00:09:02,524 --> 00:09:05,324
Speaker 1: Obviously like the obvious solution, right, you have debt, you

163
00:09:05,404 --> 00:09:07,124
Speaker 1: just had a failing business. Let's go into a business

164
00:09:07,164 --> 00:09:10,084
Speaker 1: where ninety percent of business is fill.

165
00:09:09,644 --> 00:09:11,964
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think this is this is this is

166
00:09:11,964 --> 00:09:13,884
Speaker 2: part of a problem. I'm like attracted a little bit

167
00:09:13,884 --> 00:09:16,684
Speaker 2: to difficulty in a way that feels kind of like

168
00:09:16,764 --> 00:09:19,964
Speaker 2: exciting and glorious, but then you know, the consequences can

169
00:09:20,004 --> 00:09:23,324
Speaker 2: be overwhelming if you don't, you know, catch a wave.

170
00:09:24,724 --> 00:09:29,524
Speaker 2: But I don't know why, I just I was extremely

171
00:09:29,524 --> 00:09:32,844
Speaker 2: attracted to opening restaurants in Brooklyn in that window of time.

172
00:09:33,044 --> 00:09:36,044
Speaker 2: You know, around like twenty ten, twenty eleven, where there

173
00:09:36,124 --> 00:09:40,444
Speaker 2: was this kind of farm to table thing happening, and

174
00:09:40,564 --> 00:09:42,964
Speaker 2: it just felt like an amazing opportunity to try to

175
00:09:42,964 --> 00:09:45,884
Speaker 2: make some really nice additions to these to these parts

176
00:09:45,884 --> 00:09:49,924
Speaker 2: of the neighborhoods that would otherwise, you know, be chained

177
00:09:50,164 --> 00:09:53,084
Speaker 2: or things that are not really serving the community. So

178
00:09:53,484 --> 00:09:55,284
Speaker 2: I never envisioned it as like this is what I

179
00:09:55,324 --> 00:09:58,244
Speaker 2: do now, I'm a restaurant tour I just I went

180
00:09:58,284 --> 00:10:01,204
Speaker 2: into restaurants, you know, to participate in that kind of

181
00:10:01,324 --> 00:10:06,044
Speaker 2: Brooklyn moment. But also because as opposed to this manufacturing

182
00:10:06,084 --> 00:10:10,564
Speaker 2: company which totally defined me, restaurants are also things where

183
00:10:11,044 --> 00:10:13,564
Speaker 2: you can open one and it's sort of just open right,

184
00:10:13,604 --> 00:10:15,764
Speaker 2: whether you're actively managing or not, and then you can

185
00:10:15,804 --> 00:10:17,604
Speaker 2: open a few. And I didn't want to be kind

186
00:10:17,604 --> 00:10:21,884
Speaker 2: of under the weight of one huge crushing thing, so

187
00:10:22,364 --> 00:10:24,404
Speaker 2: I opened them all as you know, separate businesses. I

188
00:10:24,444 --> 00:10:27,924
Speaker 2: could rise or fall separately and accumulate over time. But

189
00:10:28,644 --> 00:10:30,524
Speaker 2: I also really I really liked that about it, that

190
00:10:30,524 --> 00:10:32,604
Speaker 2: you could own a restaurant without it being like you're

191
00:10:32,644 --> 00:10:34,444
Speaker 2: in there nine to five every day.

192
00:10:35,204 --> 00:10:40,244
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, some free publicity rootless still exists and it's amazing.

193
00:10:40,284 --> 00:10:44,444
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite restaurants. And I think, I

194
00:10:44,444 --> 00:10:47,924
Speaker 1: think you did a wonderful job. How do you get

195
00:10:48,124 --> 00:10:52,284
Speaker 1: someone to believe in you and finance help you finance

196
00:10:52,284 --> 00:10:55,204
Speaker 1: a restaurant, help that get off the ground after you know,

197
00:10:55,364 --> 00:10:56,964
Speaker 1: when you say you know I've had that, you know

198
00:10:57,004 --> 00:10:59,684
Speaker 1: I've had a failed business. How do you actually how

199
00:10:59,684 --> 00:11:03,164
Speaker 1: did you convince people to come on board? How did

200
00:11:03,164 --> 00:11:05,124
Speaker 1: you craft that vision? And what are the pieces that

201
00:11:05,404 --> 00:11:09,164
Speaker 1: kind of have to come together in order to open restaurant? One? Right,

202
00:11:09,444 --> 00:11:12,124
Speaker 1: globe was successful, so I think that probably helped kind

203
00:11:12,124 --> 00:11:15,244
Speaker 1: of restaurant two, three, four, et cetera. But that first

204
00:11:15,284 --> 00:11:16,684
Speaker 1: that first step had us at work.

205
00:11:17,004 --> 00:11:17,484
Speaker 2: It was hard.

206
00:11:17,564 --> 00:11:19,564
Speaker 1: It's a big risk for everyone, right, for you and

207
00:11:19,604 --> 00:11:20,484
Speaker 1: for your investors.

208
00:11:20,764 --> 00:11:23,804
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, obviously in our restaurant, Like the first thing

209
00:11:23,844 --> 00:11:26,204
Speaker 2: you say is like, you can lose all of this money,

210
00:11:26,244 --> 00:11:29,604
Speaker 2: and statistically speaking, you will, and if it works, there's

211
00:11:29,644 --> 00:11:33,084
Speaker 2: no like IPO, there's there's no acquisition. It's just that

212
00:11:33,124 --> 00:11:37,204
Speaker 2: you'll receive dividends over time. So on balance, the risk

213
00:11:37,284 --> 00:11:41,644
Speaker 2: reward profile in the restaurant industry is poor, right, It

214
00:11:41,764 --> 00:11:43,964
Speaker 2: just so happens that you know, almost all of our

215
00:11:44,124 --> 00:11:46,244
Speaker 2: restaurants have paid back and people have made quite a

216
00:11:46,284 --> 00:11:48,044
Speaker 2: bit of money off them, and they're going to stay

217
00:11:48,084 --> 00:11:50,164
Speaker 2: open for a long time. But at the time of

218
00:11:50,204 --> 00:11:53,684
Speaker 2: the first one, yeah, I mean it was friends and

219
00:11:53,724 --> 00:11:57,964
Speaker 2: family and you know, we really script by. It was

220
00:11:58,044 --> 00:12:02,204
Speaker 2: we raised two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and we

221
00:12:02,604 --> 00:12:05,364
Speaker 2: did a lot of work ourselves. We you know, gave

222
00:12:05,404 --> 00:12:09,284
Speaker 2: out sweat equity for people working for free. I wasn't

223
00:12:09,324 --> 00:12:13,524
Speaker 2: that asking for favors, because I do think that people

224
00:12:14,324 --> 00:12:19,004
Speaker 2: saw me and saw the location. I basically had one

225
00:12:19,084 --> 00:12:21,524
Speaker 2: twenty five thousand dollars line of credit left that I

226
00:12:21,564 --> 00:12:23,844
Speaker 2: had gotten, you know, in two thousand and six or something,

227
00:12:23,884 --> 00:12:26,244
Speaker 2: and I took eighteen thousand dollars out of it and

228
00:12:26,324 --> 00:12:30,404
Speaker 2: put the down payment on the lease without any money raised.

229
00:12:30,844 --> 00:12:32,844
Speaker 2: And so I could be like, hey, here's a space,

230
00:12:33,084 --> 00:12:36,124
Speaker 2: look at this corner, look at this neighborhood. We're in Brooklyn.

231
00:12:36,164 --> 00:12:42,084
Speaker 2: This is happening. And I think it's sort of it's

232
00:12:42,084 --> 00:12:44,004
Speaker 2: difficult to raise money for because most of these things

233
00:12:44,044 --> 00:12:46,204
Speaker 2: are not good investment. But to have an investment that

234
00:12:46,244 --> 00:12:48,964
Speaker 2: you can actually kind of have breakfast, lunch and dinner

235
00:12:49,004 --> 00:12:52,364
Speaker 2: in and like bring your friends and have that I

236
00:12:52,444 --> 00:12:58,924
Speaker 2: own this restaurant moment is actually an extraordinary social benefit

237
00:12:58,964 --> 00:13:01,284
Speaker 2: as opposed to the most kind of random, high risk

238
00:13:01,324 --> 00:13:05,564
Speaker 2: investments that you would take, which are impersonal and likely

239
00:13:05,604 --> 00:13:10,084
Speaker 2: you'll never visit the business, let alone experience it and

240
00:13:10,124 --> 00:13:13,604
Speaker 2: have it add to your life. So in a way,

241
00:13:13,684 --> 00:13:17,764
Speaker 2: it's it's not the best financially, but I think I

242
00:13:17,844 --> 00:13:22,484
Speaker 2: was able to truthfully explain all of these intangible social

243
00:13:22,484 --> 00:13:25,604
Speaker 2: emotional benefits of being a part of something that I

244
00:13:25,644 --> 00:13:26,484
Speaker 2: think was very cool.

245
00:13:28,324 --> 00:13:31,284
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really interesting because you know, Nate and I

246
00:13:31,324 --> 00:13:34,164
Speaker 1: talk a lot about kind of expected value of decisions

247
00:13:34,484 --> 00:13:37,084
Speaker 1: on the show, right, and how how you think about

248
00:13:37,684 --> 00:13:41,244
Speaker 1: taking risks right, positive expected value, negative expected value, And

249
00:13:41,364 --> 00:13:45,084
Speaker 1: usually you're thinking about it in monetary terms, but there

250
00:13:45,124 --> 00:13:49,204
Speaker 1: are situations where there are these intangibles that might you know,

251
00:13:49,284 --> 00:13:51,884
Speaker 1: kind of add to the expected value, right, even though

252
00:13:51,924 --> 00:13:55,044
Speaker 1: it's not even though the kind of monetary payout may

253
00:13:55,044 --> 00:13:57,524
Speaker 1: not be as big. So I think what you're saying

254
00:13:57,524 --> 00:14:00,564
Speaker 1: here is that in the restaurant business, like you're actually

255
00:14:00,844 --> 00:14:03,644
Speaker 1: trying to appeal to those other things you're not going

256
00:14:03,684 --> 00:14:07,204
Speaker 1: to It's not like you're going to pitch a meme coin.

257
00:14:07,324 --> 00:14:09,284
Speaker 2: Or something like that.

258
00:14:09,524 --> 00:14:12,604
Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, you'll double your money really quickly. You're saying, yeah,

259
00:14:12,604 --> 00:14:14,764
Speaker 1: you know, this is a risk, but the rewards are

260
00:14:14,804 --> 00:14:18,164
Speaker 1: actually much more personal, much more meaningful. It's much more

261
00:14:18,204 --> 00:14:22,644
Speaker 1: of an investment kind of in in these I want

262
00:14:22,644 --> 00:14:26,204
Speaker 1: to say intangibles, even though they're very tangible, right, but

263
00:14:26,484 --> 00:14:26,804
Speaker 1: it is.

264
00:14:27,044 --> 00:14:29,724
Speaker 2: Just non financial. They're just they're just non financial values.

265
00:14:30,084 --> 00:14:32,244
Speaker 2: And I mean, you've just actually nailed a through line

266
00:14:32,244 --> 00:14:34,604
Speaker 2: on all of the work I do, including the climate stuff,

267
00:14:34,604 --> 00:14:36,844
Speaker 2: which is like, there's a risk. There's a risk that

268
00:14:37,204 --> 00:14:41,644
Speaker 2: you don't do everything that you can in the moments

269
00:14:41,684 --> 00:14:43,644
Speaker 2: that you knew that you should, and that you might

270
00:14:43,724 --> 00:14:46,084
Speaker 2: look back on that and feel a certain type of

271
00:14:46,124 --> 00:14:48,684
Speaker 2: way about your entire life. That's a risk, it's not

272
00:14:48,724 --> 00:14:51,564
Speaker 2: a financial risk. I think this kind of talk made

273
00:14:51,564 --> 00:14:53,244
Speaker 2: a lot more sense when people believe that they had

274
00:14:53,284 --> 00:14:56,404
Speaker 2: souls and things. But I think this is one area

275
00:14:56,444 --> 00:15:00,004
Speaker 2: where maybe like the kind of the philosophical like existentialist,

276
00:15:00,404 --> 00:15:03,724
Speaker 2: you know, esthetic training is in all of the work,

277
00:15:03,804 --> 00:15:08,124
Speaker 2: which is I get scared about like not taking opportunities

278
00:15:08,204 --> 00:15:10,764
Speaker 2: and not doing things and not bringing things into the

279
00:15:10,764 --> 00:15:13,044
Speaker 2: world that I believe should exist, and kind of carrying

280
00:15:13,084 --> 00:15:16,124
Speaker 2: that emotional weight for the rest of my life. And

281
00:15:17,044 --> 00:15:20,204
Speaker 2: you know, when it comes to people making decisions, people

282
00:15:20,204 --> 00:15:23,444
Speaker 2: make decisions for non financial reasons, you know, mostly right

283
00:15:23,524 --> 00:15:25,404
Speaker 2: like in their day to day life. But when you

284
00:15:25,404 --> 00:15:28,284
Speaker 2: talk about it in a business, it kind of gets

285
00:15:29,004 --> 00:15:33,124
Speaker 2: written out for some strange reason, and people wonder why they,

286
00:15:33,244 --> 00:15:36,244
Speaker 2: you know, are dissociated and unhappy. There's this whole ledger

287
00:15:36,524 --> 00:15:40,204
Speaker 2: that we should be thinking a lot more about. So

288
00:15:40,324 --> 00:15:42,484
Speaker 2: that's sort of I mean, it's that's why I think

289
00:15:42,484 --> 00:15:44,764
Speaker 2: these are cool investments, is because the idea that you

290
00:15:44,764 --> 00:15:47,924
Speaker 2: could you know, walk into one and you know, experience

291
00:15:47,924 --> 00:15:51,164
Speaker 2: it and let alone if it's like a climate positive

292
00:15:51,204 --> 00:15:53,844
Speaker 2: or mission aligned in some other way. Nobody invests in

293
00:15:53,884 --> 00:15:56,244
Speaker 2: a restaurant for financial reasons. It's cause like you live there,

294
00:15:56,364 --> 00:15:58,084
Speaker 2: or you believe in the chef, or you want to

295
00:15:58,564 --> 00:16:01,004
Speaker 2: you know, flex to some group of people that you're

296
00:16:01,044 --> 00:16:06,044
Speaker 2: like a restaurant owner independent alas raise money as well. Yeah,

297
00:16:06,284 --> 00:16:09,844
Speaker 2: I am the owner, right, Yeah, it's I mean, it's

298
00:16:09,884 --> 00:16:12,004
Speaker 2: kind of a nice thing, which is why people like

299
00:16:12,044 --> 00:16:13,724
Speaker 2: a lot of whom have like unlimited me and it's

300
00:16:13,764 --> 00:16:16,044
Speaker 2: like some of them are like randomly investing in restaurants.

301
00:16:16,644 --> 00:16:19,924
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know, I think that that's really interesting.

302
00:16:19,924 --> 00:16:22,124
Speaker 1: And there's one more thing that you actually just mentioned,

303
00:16:22,484 --> 00:16:24,924
Speaker 1: which we don't talk a lot about, but I think

304
00:16:24,964 --> 00:16:28,964
Speaker 1: it's an important kind of decision heuristic, if you will,

305
00:16:29,644 --> 00:16:32,524
Speaker 1: that people don't think enough about, which is the risk

306
00:16:32,564 --> 00:16:36,164
Speaker 1: of regret, right, the risk of kind of the path

307
00:16:36,404 --> 00:16:38,844
Speaker 1: not taken? And how much are you going to regret

308
00:16:38,844 --> 00:16:41,124
Speaker 1: what you didn't do versus what you did do? And

309
00:16:41,204 --> 00:16:44,244
Speaker 1: it seems like in your case, when you weigh those two,

310
00:16:44,364 --> 00:16:47,284
Speaker 1: what you didn't do, you know is weighed on you

311
00:16:47,604 --> 00:16:50,804
Speaker 1: much more heavily, and so you are probably programmed kind

312
00:16:50,804 --> 00:16:52,284
Speaker 1: of against the status quo bias.

313
00:16:52,364 --> 00:16:52,484
Speaker 2: Right.

314
00:16:52,524 --> 00:16:54,564
Speaker 1: So many people they just have inertia and they're like

315
00:16:55,004 --> 00:16:57,244
Speaker 1: it's fine, Like I just I don't want to I

316
00:16:57,244 --> 00:16:59,044
Speaker 1: don't want to act because I don't want to rock

317
00:16:59,084 --> 00:17:01,044
Speaker 1: the boat. And it seems like for you, what you're

318
00:17:01,084 --> 00:17:03,564
Speaker 1: saying is no, like the risk that I run by

319
00:17:03,604 --> 00:17:06,004
Speaker 1: not rocking the boat is actually much higher.

320
00:17:06,964 --> 00:17:08,924
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean this is described in a lot of

321
00:17:08,964 --> 00:17:11,564
Speaker 2: different ways. Is like you know, writers that don't write things.

322
00:17:11,884 --> 00:17:13,764
Speaker 2: It goes from you know, being this like heavenly gift

323
00:17:13,764 --> 00:17:18,244
Speaker 2: to this like hellish burden. I certainly, you know, like

324
00:17:18,324 --> 00:17:21,684
Speaker 2: wake up and fall asleep every day with the dread

325
00:17:21,724 --> 00:17:23,964
Speaker 2: and not of like whatever I'm working on emails they

326
00:17:23,964 --> 00:17:26,244
Speaker 2: haven't received, but things that I haven't finished or started

327
00:17:26,324 --> 00:17:30,324
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. And I think, you know, probably good

328
00:17:30,324 --> 00:17:34,204
Speaker 2: that not everybody is programmed that way. But I think

329
00:17:34,244 --> 00:17:37,724
Speaker 2: I also I also have to control myself because you know,

330
00:17:37,764 --> 00:17:41,564
Speaker 2: I make really bad investment decisions as well, just because

331
00:17:41,684 --> 00:17:46,484
Speaker 2: I like these kind of heroic yellow kind of bets.

332
00:17:46,524 --> 00:17:50,764
Speaker 2: I tend to invest in, like, you know, pro social things.

333
00:17:50,884 --> 00:17:54,324
Speaker 2: I apply non financial criteria to things that should be

334
00:17:54,804 --> 00:17:57,444
Speaker 2: strictly financial, and I know that that's you know, kind

335
00:17:57,444 --> 00:17:59,484
Speaker 2: of dumb, and I'm trying to get better at it,

336
00:17:59,764 --> 00:18:02,044
Speaker 2: and you know, outsource the decisions that I continue to

337
00:18:02,084 --> 00:18:06,084
Speaker 2: make poorly. But all of the work on effective forecasting,

338
00:18:06,684 --> 00:18:10,284
Speaker 2: the research says that no matter how how many times

339
00:18:10,844 --> 00:18:14,404
Speaker 2: we receive the information, we always get it wrong how

340
00:18:14,524 --> 00:18:17,244
Speaker 2: happy or sad we're going to be about a particular thing.

341
00:18:17,324 --> 00:18:19,684
Speaker 2: Like if you ask somebody like, how happy will you

342
00:18:19,724 --> 00:18:21,004
Speaker 2: be on a scale from one to ten if your

343
00:18:21,044 --> 00:18:23,364
Speaker 2: team wins a Super Bowl? Somebody says ten. Then you

344
00:18:23,404 --> 00:18:25,724
Speaker 2: ask them afterwards and they're like, it's a seven, and

345
00:18:25,724 --> 00:18:27,164
Speaker 2: then you ask them again next year and they say

346
00:18:27,204 --> 00:18:29,524
Speaker 2: it's a ten. Like there's certain things like this that

347
00:18:29,524 --> 00:18:32,804
Speaker 2: we that we don't learn, right, So kind of trying

348
00:18:32,844 --> 00:18:36,244
Speaker 2: to work within my own you know, cognitive biases when

349
00:18:36,244 --> 00:18:39,244
Speaker 2: it comes to investment decisions and or managing my business.

350
00:18:39,284 --> 00:18:43,124
Speaker 2: Risk is something that I try to create rules around.

351
00:18:43,284 --> 00:18:47,564
Speaker 2: But you know, with mixed success, which is why I

352
00:18:47,604 --> 00:18:50,044
Speaker 2: try to start a lot of different things because I

353
00:18:50,044 --> 00:18:51,844
Speaker 2: know I'm going to screw one of them up, just

354
00:18:51,884 --> 00:18:53,164
Speaker 2: like out of boredom one day.

355
00:18:53,924 --> 00:18:57,324
Speaker 1: So well, that's that's a high level of self awareness

356
00:18:57,324 --> 00:18:59,884
Speaker 1: and I applaug you for that. But you know, having

357
00:19:00,004 --> 00:19:03,684
Speaker 1: rules is actually a really good way around these effective

358
00:19:03,684 --> 00:19:07,004
Speaker 1: forecasting errors, and that is a really that is a

359
00:19:07,044 --> 00:19:10,204
Speaker 1: really interesting that's an interesting bias as well. Yeah, we

360
00:19:10,244 --> 00:19:13,084
Speaker 1: are very bad at knowing what our future self is

361
00:19:13,084 --> 00:19:16,364
Speaker 1: going to feel like will want you know, just we're

362
00:19:16,404 --> 00:19:19,364
Speaker 1: bad at making decisions for our future self and very

363
00:19:19,844 --> 00:19:22,324
Speaker 1: we just we take our current self and we project

364
00:19:22,324 --> 00:19:24,444
Speaker 1: ourselves into the future, not realizing you're going to be

365
00:19:24,444 --> 00:19:27,524
Speaker 1: a different person. It's a different time. It's incredibly difficult. Yeah,

366
00:19:27,524 --> 00:19:32,644
Speaker 1: it's incredibly difficult to learn we're going to take a

367
00:19:32,684 --> 00:19:47,964
Speaker 1: quick break and when we return Henry's take on regret. So,

368
00:19:48,084 --> 00:19:51,324
Speaker 1: after Rugolo was a success, you opened a number of

369
00:19:51,364 --> 00:19:55,204
Speaker 1: other restaurants that are still open to this day. You

370
00:19:55,284 --> 00:19:57,724
Speaker 1: did have some Actually, one of the things that I

371
00:19:57,764 --> 00:20:00,404
Speaker 1: find really interesting is you're not afraid to pivot. So

372
00:20:00,484 --> 00:20:04,564
Speaker 1: I remember when you open Meta, which is now Rodora, right,

373
00:20:05,884 --> 00:20:08,964
Speaker 1: and so the initial concept, you know, you were very

374
00:20:08,964 --> 00:20:12,004
Speaker 1: good at say this isn't working and we're going to

375
00:20:12,084 --> 00:20:14,124
Speaker 1: We're going to pivot to this, And as far as

376
00:20:14,164 --> 00:20:16,004
Speaker 1: I could tell, that was also the moment where you

377
00:20:16,044 --> 00:20:19,484
Speaker 1: pivoted to kind of a more environmentally conscious approach to

378
00:20:19,604 --> 00:20:22,604
Speaker 1: the restaurant business. Can you talk us through kind of

379
00:20:22,644 --> 00:20:26,124
Speaker 1: that that process of changing Meta into what it is

380
00:20:26,124 --> 00:20:29,724
Speaker 1: today and kind of your general approach now to actually

381
00:20:30,084 --> 00:20:33,284
Speaker 1: marrying some of these goals of climate activism and kind

382
00:20:33,284 --> 00:20:36,964
Speaker 1: of knowing what's happening to our world with a consumption

383
00:20:37,084 --> 00:20:38,644
Speaker 1: business like the restaurant business.

384
00:20:39,124 --> 00:20:46,204
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the initial twist was I was visited

385
00:20:46,244 --> 00:20:50,004
Speaker 2: by this guy, Anthony Mian who started Mission Chinese with

386
00:20:50,084 --> 00:20:54,684
Speaker 2: Danny Boyen, and he was getting into his nonprofit called

387
00:20:55,044 --> 00:20:59,764
Speaker 2: Zero Foodprint, and he said to me, you know, Henry,

388
00:20:59,844 --> 00:21:02,684
Speaker 2: did you know that food is responsible for twenty five

389
00:21:02,684 --> 00:21:04,764
Speaker 2: to thirty percent of global emissions. I was like, now,

390
00:21:04,764 --> 00:21:07,124
Speaker 2: I did not realize I was running a coal power

391
00:21:07,124 --> 00:21:10,164
Speaker 2: plant for fun, you know, because I, you know, like

392
00:21:10,164 --> 00:21:12,404
Speaker 2: to hang out with friends and eat and drink. That's

393
00:21:12,524 --> 00:21:15,004
Speaker 2: that's not great news. And he was like, yeah, and

394
00:21:15,084 --> 00:21:17,764
Speaker 2: did you know that like five of the top ten

395
00:21:17,884 --> 00:21:20,884
Speaker 2: most impactful policy changes that can be made to a

396
00:21:21,124 --> 00:21:23,484
Speaker 2: climate catastrophe have to do with food and beverage. Like,

397
00:21:23,564 --> 00:21:25,884
Speaker 2: isn't that awesome that we get to work on this?

398
00:21:26,564 --> 00:21:29,724
Speaker 2: And it really appealed to my sense of, you know

399
00:21:30,084 --> 00:21:34,964
Speaker 2: whatever agency individualism, the reason that I would assume everybody

400
00:21:35,044 --> 00:21:38,084
Speaker 2: becomes an entrepreneur, right because you it's not like the

401
00:21:38,084 --> 00:21:41,844
Speaker 2: most straightforward way to make money, so you have to

402
00:21:41,964 --> 00:21:45,644
Speaker 2: kind of again have these like non financial reasons for

403
00:21:46,204 --> 00:21:49,564
Speaker 2: doing it, whether you know, running toward or running from.

404
00:21:50,524 --> 00:21:53,884
Speaker 2: And I think the big one for me was this

405
00:21:54,004 --> 00:21:56,564
Speaker 2: was an opportunity for me to you know, when you

406
00:21:56,604 --> 00:21:58,044
Speaker 2: get the call in the middle of the night and

407
00:21:58,044 --> 00:22:00,844
Speaker 2: then the pipe breaks and you call the plumber and

408
00:22:00,884 --> 00:22:03,364
Speaker 2: you're just like, I hate my life, it's sort of

409
00:22:03,364 --> 00:22:06,964
Speaker 2: a reason to actually tap into something deeper and just

410
00:22:06,964 --> 00:22:08,604
Speaker 2: like like what you see in the mirror and put

411
00:22:08,684 --> 00:22:11,764
Speaker 2: up with the petty and dignities of running a restaurant

412
00:22:11,804 --> 00:22:14,724
Speaker 2: and being an entrepreneur. Which is why it's so shocking

413
00:22:14,724 --> 00:22:17,204
Speaker 2: to me that so few restauranteurs have have taken on

414
00:22:17,284 --> 00:22:21,244
Speaker 2: this sustainability mantles. It's because it's it's an opportunity to

415
00:22:21,244 --> 00:22:24,924
Speaker 2: give your work meaning in a much broader kind of

416
00:22:25,844 --> 00:22:31,084
Speaker 2: local community or global context. It's an opportunity to give

417
00:22:31,164 --> 00:22:32,764
Speaker 2: you know, all the people that work for you, like

418
00:22:33,924 --> 00:22:36,924
Speaker 2: an exciting extra reason to to come to work. And

419
00:22:36,964 --> 00:22:39,004
Speaker 2: then there are all these kind of narrow business reasons

420
00:22:39,004 --> 00:22:42,124
Speaker 2: for doing it, like retaining people. But yeah, he sort

421
00:22:42,124 --> 00:22:45,004
Speaker 2: of once you told me that, I couldn't look away

422
00:22:45,124 --> 00:22:48,364
Speaker 2: from the fact that you know, basically, if you're working

423
00:22:48,364 --> 00:22:51,524
Speaker 2: in food, you either need to be for me. It

424
00:22:51,564 --> 00:22:53,724
Speaker 2: was like, we either need to work on this actively

425
00:22:53,804 --> 00:22:56,484
Speaker 2: or we need to close because what we're doing is harmful,

426
00:22:57,724 --> 00:23:01,004
Speaker 2: and it's harmful in a way that is that weighed

427
00:23:01,164 --> 00:23:03,964
Speaker 2: on me because you know, we all have carbon footprints,

428
00:23:03,964 --> 00:23:08,164
Speaker 2: but restaurants carbon footprints are significant, right and and if

429
00:23:08,204 --> 00:23:10,724
Speaker 2: you if you kind of of look at the data

430
00:23:11,564 --> 00:23:14,244
Speaker 2: of you know, the social cost of that into the future,

431
00:23:14,284 --> 00:23:17,924
Speaker 2: and you think about the harm that you can cause

432
00:23:18,044 --> 00:23:20,844
Speaker 2: by doing nothing other than business as usual. It was

433
00:23:20,884 --> 00:23:24,124
Speaker 2: it was too much for me to kind of bear

434
00:23:24,164 --> 00:23:28,684
Speaker 2: psychologically flip side, you know, actually kind of pivoting to

435
00:23:28,764 --> 00:23:32,364
Speaker 2: being a bit more proactive about you know, creating a

436
00:23:32,404 --> 00:23:37,844
Speaker 2: trash free restaurant, pivoting toward you know, scope through carbon

437
00:23:37,884 --> 00:23:41,084
Speaker 2: neutral operations. Suddenly, this is something that gave me energy

438
00:23:41,124 --> 00:23:43,924
Speaker 2: and made me feel like, yeah, obviously we're a small

439
00:23:43,964 --> 00:23:46,684
Speaker 2: restaurant group, but in our sphere of influence, we can

440
00:23:46,884 --> 00:23:50,324
Speaker 2: show a way of doing something, not just like you know,

441
00:23:50,444 --> 00:23:52,964
Speaker 2: lying there helpless and saying like, oh, it's so difficult

442
00:23:52,964 --> 00:23:56,764
Speaker 2: to be a restaurant owner and doing nothing. So that

443
00:23:56,964 --> 00:24:00,284
Speaker 2: felt really good to me. And you know, I'm not

444
00:24:00,324 --> 00:24:04,404
Speaker 2: saying it was exclusively for selfish reasons, but I do

445
00:24:04,484 --> 00:24:07,084
Speaker 2: think participating in this broader conversation has given me a

446
00:24:07,084 --> 00:24:12,684
Speaker 2: lot of just like personal joy and satisfaction in the

447
00:24:13,044 --> 00:24:15,084
Speaker 2: work that I do, which can be really annoying. And

448
00:24:15,764 --> 00:24:17,524
Speaker 2: I hope it would be a template for more people

449
00:24:17,604 --> 00:24:20,644
Speaker 2: kind of jumping on board. But you know, sustainability in

450
00:24:20,684 --> 00:24:23,604
Speaker 2: restaurants is not really a thing unfortunately for them.

451
00:24:23,724 --> 00:24:27,324
Speaker 1: Yeah, so so talk us through a little bit about

452
00:24:27,364 --> 00:24:30,044
Speaker 1: what that decision process looks like, right when you're opening

453
00:24:30,124 --> 00:24:32,684
Speaker 1: a new restaurant, or when when you kind of pivoted

454
00:24:33,604 --> 00:24:37,804
Speaker 1: to Redore for that first trial. What does it look

455
00:24:37,924 --> 00:24:41,284
Speaker 1: like when you're making those decisions, Because obviously you're still

456
00:24:41,324 --> 00:24:43,844
Speaker 1: looking to run a profitable business, so you have so

457
00:24:43,924 --> 00:24:46,404
Speaker 1: many you now have so many different needs, right, you

458
00:24:46,404 --> 00:24:48,044
Speaker 1: need to you need to make a profit, right for

459
00:24:48,284 --> 00:24:50,484
Speaker 1: for you and for your investors. You need people to

460
00:24:50,564 --> 00:24:52,604
Speaker 1: enjoy the food and to enjoy the restaurant, and you

461
00:24:52,684 --> 00:24:55,764
Speaker 1: need to kind of have that beyond point. And now

462
00:24:55,804 --> 00:24:57,724
Speaker 1: you're also saying, Okay, we're not going to have a

463
00:24:57,764 --> 00:25:00,084
Speaker 1: carbon footprint, we're going to be zero waste, we're going

464
00:25:00,124 --> 00:25:02,284
Speaker 1: to have all of these other things going on. How

465
00:25:02,324 --> 00:25:05,364
Speaker 1: does that decision calculus look like? How do you how

466
00:25:05,404 --> 00:25:07,244
Speaker 1: do you go through that process? How do you make

467
00:25:07,284 --> 00:25:11,484
Speaker 1: it a reality? And how people have everyone be happy?

468
00:25:12,364 --> 00:25:14,684
Speaker 2: Well, it's very challenging because a restaurant is already a

469
00:25:14,764 --> 00:25:17,004
Speaker 2: massive compromise between like the front of house, the back

470
00:25:17,044 --> 00:25:20,484
Speaker 2: of house, you know, the operations, the guest experience, the

471
00:25:21,204 --> 00:25:25,604
Speaker 2: you know, return to investors. How easy or difficult it

472
00:25:25,644 --> 00:25:28,324
Speaker 2: is to work there. You know, very few people get

473
00:25:28,324 --> 00:25:32,484
Speaker 2: into the restaurant world in order to like work on sustainability. Right,

474
00:25:32,564 --> 00:25:37,804
Speaker 2: So now we're saying, okay, whereas you know, fifteen years ago,

475
00:25:37,924 --> 00:25:39,764
Speaker 2: anybody who knows the LIB was living in New York

476
00:25:39,844 --> 00:25:42,204
Speaker 2: knows like you were just outside of restaurants, you see

477
00:25:42,244 --> 00:25:46,124
Speaker 2: like hundreds of like black trash bags just like filled

478
00:25:46,164 --> 00:25:48,764
Speaker 2: with mostly recycling and compass. Because if you think about

479
00:25:48,764 --> 00:25:52,044
Speaker 2: when a restaurant buys, it is like mostly comes in cardboard,

480
00:25:52,124 --> 00:25:55,484
Speaker 2: comes in, you know, plastic or whatever, and it's mostly food.

481
00:25:55,564 --> 00:25:58,404
Speaker 2: It's not actually non recyclable trash that people were putting

482
00:25:58,404 --> 00:26:01,164
Speaker 2: in the trash. So all these people that are kind

483
00:26:01,164 --> 00:26:02,884
Speaker 2: of used to just having a trash bin, it's like,

484
00:26:02,884 --> 00:26:04,884
Speaker 2: all right, now you're going to have three. You know,

485
00:26:04,964 --> 00:26:07,004
Speaker 2: there's like trash and I don't really know what you

486
00:26:07,044 --> 00:26:09,324
Speaker 2: need to put in there in most of our ust

487
00:26:09,404 --> 00:26:13,084
Speaker 2: restaurants because it is mostly recycling and composts recycling and compost.

488
00:26:13,604 --> 00:26:14,964
Speaker 2: And they look at me as this kind of like

489
00:26:15,004 --> 00:26:18,244
Speaker 2: out of touch, you know, business owner who's not like

490
00:26:18,324 --> 00:26:21,084
Speaker 2: worked you know, in a restaurant alongside them, and they're like,

491
00:26:21,124 --> 00:26:24,684
Speaker 2: all right, so you're going to take our jobs, which

492
00:26:24,724 --> 00:26:28,844
Speaker 2: are extremely difficult, and you're going to make them more difficult.

493
00:26:29,484 --> 00:26:33,964
Speaker 2: And also in the world of restaurants, what's seen as

494
00:26:34,044 --> 00:26:36,444
Speaker 2: quality is basically speed, right, So if you order an

495
00:26:36,524 --> 00:26:39,564
Speaker 2: espresso and it comes out in like thirty seconds, you're like, Wow,

496
00:26:39,564 --> 00:26:45,004
Speaker 2: the spaces has this incredible service and sustainable practices within

497
00:26:45,044 --> 00:26:48,164
Speaker 2: the restaurant do slow things down. You're washing recycling, you know,

498
00:26:48,204 --> 00:26:50,444
Speaker 2: you're like, which bind do I put this in? And

499
00:26:50,524 --> 00:26:53,444
Speaker 2: so you are operating, you know, either with more staff

500
00:26:53,564 --> 00:26:56,524
Speaker 2: or staff who are more committed and operating more efficiently.

501
00:26:56,844 --> 00:26:59,524
Speaker 2: So it does it does hurt profits and or you

502
00:26:59,524 --> 00:27:02,884
Speaker 2: pass it on to the guests. The problem is people

503
00:27:02,964 --> 00:27:06,364
Speaker 2: don't really care on the consumer side. They don't put

504
00:27:06,364 --> 00:27:10,364
Speaker 2: a value on us being like scope through a carbon

505
00:27:10,364 --> 00:27:12,844
Speaker 2: neutral They're like, what does that even mean? And then

506
00:27:12,884 --> 00:27:14,244
Speaker 2: you explain it to them and they really don't know

507
00:27:14,284 --> 00:27:18,804
Speaker 2: what it means. And Redora being you know, trash free

508
00:27:19,564 --> 00:27:22,564
Speaker 2: is so extreme. There are there are only a few

509
00:27:22,604 --> 00:27:25,364
Speaker 2: like trash free restaurants in the world. And we learned

510
00:27:25,364 --> 00:27:27,124
Speaker 2: about how to do this from a few you know,

511
00:27:27,164 --> 00:27:30,164
Speaker 2: dear friends chef Doug McMaster who runs Silo in London

512
00:27:30,204 --> 00:27:33,324
Speaker 2: and Lauren Singer who's many things, but when I met her,

513
00:27:33,364 --> 00:27:36,444
Speaker 2: she was kind of a zero waste sustainability influencer and

514
00:27:36,644 --> 00:27:38,524
Speaker 2: running this company of trash is for Tosters and then

515
00:27:38,564 --> 00:27:41,444
Speaker 2: package Free, and they sort of showed us how to

516
00:27:41,524 --> 00:27:44,804
Speaker 2: operate without a trash bin. But it's almost like it

517
00:27:44,844 --> 00:27:47,924
Speaker 2: really is almost like a performative level of sustainability that

518
00:27:48,004 --> 00:27:50,644
Speaker 2: I think can be off putting for people. So we

519
00:27:50,764 --> 00:27:54,204
Speaker 2: do all these things, but I think people come to

520
00:27:54,244 --> 00:27:56,284
Speaker 2: Redora because it's cool and the wine is good, and

521
00:27:56,284 --> 00:27:59,124
Speaker 2: it's a nice design and it's like an amazing location

522
00:27:59,204 --> 00:28:01,604
Speaker 2: in four Green, two blocks from the park. You know,

523
00:28:01,644 --> 00:28:03,484
Speaker 2: it's not because it's sustainable.

524
00:28:04,284 --> 00:28:07,564
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think you're very you know, every single restaurant

525
00:28:07,564 --> 00:28:10,004
Speaker 1: that you open, you're very good at trying to figure

526
00:28:10,044 --> 00:28:13,284
Speaker 1: out what's the identity of this restaurant is. You know,

527
00:28:13,324 --> 00:28:14,884
Speaker 1: like on a E. S which is one of your

528
00:28:14,924 --> 00:28:17,404
Speaker 1: more recent restaurants, you have it as like a book

529
00:28:17,444 --> 00:28:19,684
Speaker 1: bar right in a book space and an event space.

530
00:28:20,284 --> 00:28:23,004
Speaker 1: So I think it's very interesting to see how you're

531
00:28:23,124 --> 00:28:25,004
Speaker 1: you're trying to marry these things and how you are

532
00:28:25,044 --> 00:28:27,124
Speaker 1: looking at risk and you are in a way you're

533
00:28:27,164 --> 00:28:31,324
Speaker 1: mitigating the risk right by kind of loading the loading

534
00:28:31,364 --> 00:28:33,924
Speaker 1: the dice on the other side, and saying, yes, I'm

535
00:28:33,924 --> 00:28:36,444
Speaker 1: taking all these risks with the climate stuff. Yes, it's

536
00:28:36,484 --> 00:28:38,284
Speaker 1: not going to be as profitable for those reasons, but

537
00:28:38,484 --> 00:28:40,924
Speaker 1: I'm going to ensure that people like it more because

538
00:28:41,204 --> 00:28:44,044
Speaker 1: there is a unique identifier that's going to kind of

539
00:28:44,044 --> 00:28:46,084
Speaker 1: make people come here, even though it might be a

540
00:28:46,124 --> 00:28:49,444
Speaker 1: little slower, even though we might have to jump through

541
00:28:49,484 --> 00:28:50,444
Speaker 1: a few more hurdles.

542
00:28:50,764 --> 00:28:53,884
Speaker 2: Is that fair? Yeah, I think I think that's fair.

543
00:28:53,924 --> 00:28:57,364
Speaker 2: You know, we always try to have a concept for

544
00:28:57,404 --> 00:29:00,884
Speaker 2: a particular community or a particular reason. Meta was kind

545
00:29:00,924 --> 00:29:03,844
Speaker 2: of bringing the style of you know, open fire cooking

546
00:29:03,964 --> 00:29:06,724
Speaker 2: and Redora. It was like, okay, like first like trash

547
00:29:06,764 --> 00:29:09,924
Speaker 2: free restaurant in New York, and then June was the

548
00:29:09,964 --> 00:29:14,524
Speaker 2: first natural wine bar in Brooklyn, you know, quickly followed

549
00:29:14,564 --> 00:29:17,284
Speaker 2: by the Four Horsemen, and now there's like again like

550
00:29:17,324 --> 00:29:22,524
Speaker 2: five thousand, you know, a nice wine bar with candles

551
00:29:22,604 --> 00:29:27,124
Speaker 2: and bookshelves of you know, vintage feminist erotica for sale.

552
00:29:27,324 --> 00:29:30,444
Speaker 2: Is like another vibe that I just like wanted to

553
00:29:30,524 --> 00:29:34,124
Speaker 2: have somewhere, you know, nearby that the one could visit

554
00:29:34,204 --> 00:29:36,444
Speaker 2: and you know, lo and behold, we're having all of

555
00:29:36,444 --> 00:29:39,884
Speaker 2: these amazing poetry readings where people are like matching like

556
00:29:40,044 --> 00:29:44,404
Speaker 2: Catullus to like a particular wine and like Lorca, and

557
00:29:44,924 --> 00:29:45,684
Speaker 2: people are kind.

558
00:29:45,524 --> 00:29:48,044
Speaker 1: Of having that your aesthetics is coming back.

559
00:29:49,084 --> 00:29:52,044
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's squeezed in you know, here and there. But

560
00:29:52,444 --> 00:29:55,724
Speaker 2: I think, like from a management perspective also, I would

561
00:29:55,764 --> 00:29:59,564
Speaker 2: say the way that I managed Risks by kind of

562
00:29:59,564 --> 00:30:02,004
Speaker 2: trying to constantly improve quality and make sure that we're

563
00:30:02,004 --> 00:30:04,324
Speaker 2: being competitive as I focus on like the very very

564
00:30:04,364 --> 00:30:07,364
Speaker 2: macro like okay, like this does this location makes sense?

565
00:30:08,444 --> 00:30:11,404
Speaker 2: Is a lease owner a do people actually care about

566
00:30:11,404 --> 00:30:14,684
Speaker 2: the screen concept at all? And then the very very

567
00:30:14,764 --> 00:30:17,804
Speaker 2: micro like you know what is like the fonts on

568
00:30:17,844 --> 00:30:21,604
Speaker 2: the menu, the thousand little details that actually create the

569
00:30:21,644 --> 00:30:25,204
Speaker 2: guest experience because you know, and people kind of sometimes

570
00:30:25,244 --> 00:30:27,004
Speaker 2: don't understand. They're like I thought you were kind of

571
00:30:27,044 --> 00:30:29,804
Speaker 2: like the finance like big picture guy, and you're kind

572
00:30:29,804 --> 00:30:32,804
Speaker 2: of going in and you know you want to like

573
00:30:33,124 --> 00:30:36,964
Speaker 2: switch the candles out. Why are you so annoying? But

574
00:30:37,604 --> 00:30:40,084
Speaker 2: I think like focusing like as an owner, focusing on

575
00:30:40,604 --> 00:30:42,764
Speaker 2: because I'm a guest in my own restaurants, right and

576
00:30:42,924 --> 00:30:46,444
Speaker 2: I want to kind of like relentlessly bring the guest

577
00:30:46,524 --> 00:30:50,284
Speaker 2: experience back to the center of what our priorities are

578
00:30:50,324 --> 00:30:52,284
Speaker 2: and what we're trying to achieve, because there's a lot

579
00:30:52,284 --> 00:30:54,484
Speaker 2: of other things that people are trying to achieve, Like

580
00:30:54,524 --> 00:30:59,084
Speaker 2: bartenders are trying to try out new exciting things, you know,

581
00:30:59,204 --> 00:31:01,324
Speaker 2: brought in by like liquor apps that they're friends with.

582
00:31:01,484 --> 00:31:04,924
Speaker 2: Chefs are trying to make their name. There's a lot

583
00:31:04,924 --> 00:31:09,404
Speaker 2: of incentives that kind of pull people away from guests

584
00:31:09,484 --> 00:31:12,004
Speaker 2: experience in restaurants, which is why sometimes you'll go to

585
00:31:12,084 --> 00:31:14,444
Speaker 2: a restaurant it just won't be as good as like

586
00:31:14,484 --> 00:31:17,204
Speaker 2: a home cooked meal, right, which which is just it's

587
00:31:17,204 --> 00:31:20,724
Speaker 2: actually quite straightforward to do, but you constantly have to

588
00:31:20,764 --> 00:31:24,244
Speaker 2: be refocusing on the guests and their enjoyment and their

589
00:31:24,324 --> 00:31:28,964
Speaker 2: enjoyment with like again themselves, friends, family, versus the things

590
00:31:29,004 --> 00:31:30,724
Speaker 2: that will happen when you take your eye off the

591
00:31:30,764 --> 00:31:36,044
Speaker 2: ball that make a place increasingly not guest friendly when

592
00:31:36,044 --> 00:31:39,484
Speaker 2: it comes to reservation policies or hours or like not

593
00:31:39,604 --> 00:31:44,364
Speaker 2: seating partial parties. These are things that kind of I

594
00:31:44,404 --> 00:31:45,604
Speaker 2: have to regularly correct.

595
00:31:46,364 --> 00:31:49,404
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that makes sense. I do want to ask

596
00:31:49,444 --> 00:31:52,884
Speaker 1: about kind of one other broader question when it comes

597
00:31:52,884 --> 00:31:55,844
Speaker 1: to risks. So obviously things can happen that no one

598
00:31:55,884 --> 00:32:00,404
Speaker 1: could have foreseen, like COVID and I'm very curious none

599
00:32:00,444 --> 00:32:03,484
Speaker 1: of your restaurants closed during COVID and you actually kind

600
00:32:03,484 --> 00:32:06,484
Speaker 1: of continue you were successful, right, and this was a

601
00:32:06,524 --> 00:32:11,164
Speaker 1: time where like restaurants were decimated. How did you approach

602
00:32:11,364 --> 00:32:14,404
Speaker 1: something which was a new kind of risk environment, new challenge?

603
00:32:14,644 --> 00:32:17,404
Speaker 1: How did you think about it? And you know, ultimately,

604
00:32:17,684 --> 00:32:20,724
Speaker 1: how did you survive and thrive during a time that

605
00:32:20,804 --> 00:32:23,444
Speaker 1: was so difficult for so many for so many businesses.

606
00:32:24,964 --> 00:32:32,484
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's well, I think this is where my failure

607
00:32:34,644 --> 00:32:39,244
Speaker 2: maybe came in handy. I think a lot of people

608
00:32:39,764 --> 00:32:43,844
Speaker 2: thought that, you know, the cavalry was coming and you know,

609
00:32:43,884 --> 00:32:46,804
Speaker 2: people just stop paying run And a lot of restaurant

610
00:32:46,804 --> 00:32:49,764
Speaker 2: owners were like, well, they have to bail us out.

611
00:32:49,884 --> 00:32:52,764
Speaker 2: And you know, having lived through the Great Recession, having

612
00:32:52,804 --> 00:32:56,124
Speaker 2: like my business destroyed and kind of like my livelihood destroyed,

613
00:32:56,204 --> 00:32:58,324
Speaker 2: I was just like, no, they don't, like we're you know,

614
00:32:58,364 --> 00:33:01,444
Speaker 2: we're entrepreneurs. Like we're like out here swinging for the

615
00:33:01,524 --> 00:33:04,004
Speaker 2: fences for like a great riches in glory. Like we

616
00:33:04,084 --> 00:33:08,924
Speaker 2: don't deserve a bailout, guys. And like so I behaved

617
00:33:08,924 --> 00:33:13,564
Speaker 2: as though no one was coming. So like you know, Rukula,

618
00:33:13,684 --> 00:33:15,924
Speaker 2: there was you know, the mandate to close on Monday

619
00:33:16,004 --> 00:33:18,204
Speaker 2: or whatever, and by Monday night we were, you know,

620
00:33:18,284 --> 00:33:23,244
Speaker 2: doing takeout, which was allowed. Redora, we pivoted to being

621
00:33:23,604 --> 00:33:27,044
Speaker 2: you know, a general goods store selling like paper, towels,

622
00:33:27,084 --> 00:33:31,844
Speaker 2: toilet paper, wine, you know whatever, all of these things,

623
00:33:31,924 --> 00:33:34,844
Speaker 2: trying to be like a local shop for the community.

624
00:33:34,884 --> 00:33:39,164
Speaker 2: We did the same thing at June. I pivoted very

625
00:33:39,444 --> 00:33:44,204
Speaker 2: very quickly. I guess is I I'm used to slash

626
00:33:44,284 --> 00:33:49,404
Speaker 2: operate well in a quickly changing environment. I get excited

627
00:33:49,444 --> 00:33:54,924
Speaker 2: by things, by by challenges, and I think that, you know,

628
00:33:54,964 --> 00:33:56,764
Speaker 2: it's just like, okay, what is what needs to be

629
00:33:56,804 --> 00:34:00,684
Speaker 2: done in these situations? And so then when the money

630
00:34:00,764 --> 00:34:03,964
Speaker 2: came right like the two rounds of p PAP, the

631
00:34:04,164 --> 00:34:08,644
Speaker 2: IDL Loans, Restaurant Revitalization Fund, I was just like what

632
00:34:08,804 --> 00:34:13,004
Speaker 2: the I was so unexpected, And so it was just

633
00:34:13,084 --> 00:34:18,924
Speaker 2: kind of on top of businesses that were operating at

634
00:34:19,004 --> 00:34:23,124
Speaker 2: break even or better. I Meanridora, we weren't eligible for

635
00:34:23,164 --> 00:34:25,044
Speaker 2: our F because we made more money of the pandemic

636
00:34:25,084 --> 00:34:28,644
Speaker 2: than we made the year before. So I was sort

637
00:34:28,684 --> 00:34:31,204
Speaker 2: of I saw a lot of like very close friends

638
00:34:31,204 --> 00:34:35,964
Speaker 2: of mine be pretty overwhelmed by by the extent of

639
00:34:36,004 --> 00:34:40,124
Speaker 2: the change extent of the risk, and you know, to

640
00:34:40,164 --> 00:34:42,684
Speaker 2: another degree, I realized that I was I had also

641
00:34:42,804 --> 00:34:44,964
Speaker 2: my thesis of like don't put your all year eggs

642
00:34:45,004 --> 00:34:48,124
Speaker 2: in one basket, had sort of once again been challenged

643
00:34:48,164 --> 00:34:51,124
Speaker 2: by putting all of my eggs in one industry, which

644
00:34:51,284 --> 00:34:54,644
Speaker 2: was you know, highly susceptible. And I just I just

645
00:34:54,644 --> 00:34:57,004
Speaker 2: didn't want to fail again. I was too old and just,

646
00:34:58,684 --> 00:35:02,804
Speaker 2: and so we we came out a lot stronger. And

647
00:35:02,844 --> 00:35:04,844
Speaker 2: I think that I think a lot of people did.

648
00:35:06,564 --> 00:35:08,604
Speaker 2: I do think there's a massive debt overhang. I think

649
00:35:08,604 --> 00:35:10,124
Speaker 2: that a lot of a lot of things happened in

650
00:35:10,164 --> 00:35:12,524
Speaker 2: the pandemic where if you if you fired your entire stuff,

651
00:35:12,524 --> 00:35:15,964
Speaker 2: if you didn't pivot to figure out another thing for

652
00:35:16,044 --> 00:35:17,924
Speaker 2: people to do, a lot of these people left New

653
00:35:18,004 --> 00:35:22,084
Speaker 2: York and you had to rehire everybody at on the

654
00:35:22,084 --> 00:35:24,524
Speaker 2: same day that like thousands of other restaurants were rehiring.

655
00:35:24,524 --> 00:35:28,964
Speaker 2: And I don't think people realize how much debt was

656
00:35:28,964 --> 00:35:32,964
Speaker 2: actually handed out that kind of fueled this resurgence. That

657
00:35:33,044 --> 00:35:35,804
Speaker 2: debt is still there, right like, these loans are still

658
00:35:35,804 --> 00:35:39,884
Speaker 2: out there for a lot of these businesses, and I

659
00:35:39,924 --> 00:35:41,764
Speaker 2: don't know, maybe some people think it's going to be forgiven,

660
00:35:41,804 --> 00:35:46,484
Speaker 2: but I don't. So just because you don't expect anything,

661
00:35:46,804 --> 00:35:49,044
Speaker 2: I don't know, I know, I know, no one's uh

662
00:35:50,244 --> 00:35:52,284
Speaker 2: you know, and you know, it just seems like a

663
00:35:52,284 --> 00:35:56,044
Speaker 2: little bit of attachment theory. I'm definitely the kind of uh,

664
00:35:56,924 --> 00:35:58,804
Speaker 2: do you know this experiment where there's like the kid

665
00:35:58,964 --> 00:36:01,844
Speaker 2: and the parent leaves and like the stranger comes back,

666
00:36:02,044 --> 00:36:03,684
Speaker 2: and like you can tell you if you're like anxious,

667
00:36:03,724 --> 00:36:06,684
Speaker 2: avoidant whatever. Like I'm definitely like the kid that just

668
00:36:06,764 --> 00:36:08,804
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I guess this is what we're doing now,

669
00:36:08,964 --> 00:36:09,324
Speaker 2: you know.

670
00:36:09,524 --> 00:36:09,684
Speaker 1: And.

671
00:36:11,604 --> 00:36:16,964
Speaker 2: That, just I guess is a superpower in times where

672
00:36:17,644 --> 00:36:19,644
Speaker 2: you know, a lot is changing, and I think it's

673
00:36:19,884 --> 00:36:23,844
Speaker 2: it's a massive liability in times where things are smooth

674
00:36:23,884 --> 00:36:28,044
Speaker 2: and boring, because you know, I have a tendency, certainly

675
00:36:28,044 --> 00:36:30,924
Speaker 2: in my own personal investments to try to make things

676
00:36:31,404 --> 00:36:35,604
Speaker 2: interesting and like just just doing dumb stuff like buying

677
00:36:35,604 --> 00:36:37,924
Speaker 2: options in like renewable companies when I should be buying

678
00:36:37,964 --> 00:36:44,084
Speaker 2: stocks and whatever. Just I have, I know this about myself,

679
00:36:44,324 --> 00:36:47,364
Speaker 2: and so I've tried to try to make the restaurants

680
00:36:47,364 --> 00:36:49,444
Speaker 2: interesting enough so that I can do like really really

681
00:36:49,484 --> 00:36:50,444
Speaker 2: boring investments.

682
00:36:56,004 --> 00:36:58,604
Speaker 1: After the break, Henry talks about managing risk in his

683
00:36:58,684 --> 00:36:59,484
Speaker 1: personal life.

684
00:37:12,684 --> 00:37:14,404
Speaker 2: I also wanted to tell you, like when it comes

685
00:37:14,444 --> 00:37:17,124
Speaker 2: to personal things, I'm incredibly risk averse. Like I just

686
00:37:17,164 --> 00:37:21,764
Speaker 2: had another child, you know, five thank you, five days ago,

687
00:37:21,964 --> 00:37:26,244
Speaker 2: and so a little a little bit underslept. But you know,

688
00:37:26,284 --> 00:37:31,124
Speaker 2: my partner was on like antibiotics and this sleeping medication

689
00:37:32,204 --> 00:37:36,084
Speaker 2: unism throughout it, and everything was everything was saying like

690
00:37:36,084 --> 00:37:39,604
Speaker 2: this is totally fine, there's nothing wrong. But I did

691
00:37:39,644 --> 00:37:41,244
Speaker 2: like more research and I was like, okay, it's this

692
00:37:41,324 --> 00:37:44,404
Speaker 2: hermiasin Like there actually are these recent Naah papers where

693
00:37:44,804 --> 00:37:48,084
Speaker 2: if you like have a boy, there is like this

694
00:37:48,244 --> 00:37:53,564
Speaker 2: number of potential genetic defects, and I'm like, great, I

695
00:37:53,604 --> 00:37:56,124
Speaker 2: have a girl, and there are these other things that

696
00:37:56,164 --> 00:37:58,884
Speaker 2: could you know, could potentially happen that like if you

697
00:37:58,924 --> 00:38:00,644
Speaker 2: took it in the first or the third trimester, but

698
00:38:00,724 --> 00:38:03,204
Speaker 2: she took it in the second. And so I'm asking

699
00:38:03,244 --> 00:38:06,324
Speaker 2: these the nurses these questions and they're just like you

700
00:38:06,564 --> 00:38:10,604
Speaker 2: are psychotic, Like your baby is completely fine. I'm like, look,

701
00:38:10,644 --> 00:38:13,404
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to gather information so that if like X,

702
00:38:13,484 --> 00:38:16,404
Speaker 2: Y or Z happens in two weeks, as it said

703
00:38:16,444 --> 00:38:19,644
Speaker 2: it might in the study, you know, like if something

704
00:38:19,644 --> 00:38:21,684
Speaker 2: went from a point one percent chance to a one

705
00:38:21,764 --> 00:38:26,524
Speaker 2: percent chance. I want to know, because, like anything happening

706
00:38:26,524 --> 00:38:30,764
Speaker 2: in the first month of life is existential, and I

707
00:38:30,804 --> 00:38:32,924
Speaker 2: think I can't remember if this is anything that we've

708
00:38:32,964 --> 00:38:35,244
Speaker 2: ever talked about, but just like on a personal level,

709
00:38:35,284 --> 00:38:37,364
Speaker 2: I lost my mom to an accident at a very

710
00:38:37,404 --> 00:38:42,484
Speaker 2: young age, and so these kind of lowering existential risk

711
00:38:43,804 --> 00:38:47,124
Speaker 2: from like five percent to one percent two point five percent.

712
00:38:47,524 --> 00:38:51,764
Speaker 2: I also am constantly circling around my restaurants and people

713
00:38:51,764 --> 00:38:55,364
Speaker 2: in my life trying to do this for like early screenings,

714
00:38:55,484 --> 00:39:01,244
Speaker 2: like anything to remove like the worst outcomes of like

715
00:39:01,364 --> 00:39:04,684
Speaker 2: total failure. And so that's also why I think my

716
00:39:04,804 --> 00:39:09,804
Speaker 2: businesses sort of tend to survive, is I don't let

717
00:39:09,844 --> 00:39:13,004
Speaker 2: them die like even when they should. Yeah, if that

718
00:39:13,044 --> 00:39:14,124
Speaker 2: makes sense, I.

719
00:39:14,164 --> 00:39:18,164
Speaker 1: Think that that's incredibly smart and something that has probably

720
00:39:18,204 --> 00:39:21,444
Speaker 1: allowed you to survive in a very risky and very

721
00:39:21,524 --> 00:39:24,084
Speaker 1: risky area because a lot of people and a lot

722
00:39:24,124 --> 00:39:27,604
Speaker 1: of entrepreneurs don't have enough appreciation for the risk of ruin, right,

723
00:39:27,644 --> 00:39:30,204
Speaker 1: the risk of going to zero, the risk of not

724
00:39:30,244 --> 00:39:32,804
Speaker 1: being able to continue. And it seems like that's something

725
00:39:32,844 --> 00:39:35,924
Speaker 1: that you are thinking about in just globally right in

726
00:39:36,204 --> 00:39:37,284
Speaker 1: every element of your life.

727
00:39:37,324 --> 00:39:40,724
Speaker 2: Certain, yeah, in connection to my to my children, in

728
00:39:40,724 --> 00:39:45,644
Speaker 2: connection of my businesses, in connection to the climate, and yeah, no,

729
00:39:45,764 --> 00:39:48,444
Speaker 2: I mean definitely, like the fat tail on all these

730
00:39:48,484 --> 00:39:51,484
Speaker 2: things is problematic, and I just try to, you know,

731
00:39:51,524 --> 00:39:54,684
Speaker 2: winnow it down. And I do that, you know, in

732
00:39:55,084 --> 00:39:58,844
Speaker 2: any situation by just gathering information. So if I see

733
00:39:58,844 --> 00:40:02,604
Speaker 2: something like my great grandmother was a worse nurse in

734
00:40:02,644 --> 00:40:08,284
Speaker 2: World War One, and my grandmother was dying of a

735
00:40:08,324 --> 00:40:13,964
Speaker 2: fever and being read her last rights and they thought

736
00:40:14,084 --> 00:40:18,524
Speaker 2: she had I don't know the flu, and my great

737
00:40:18,524 --> 00:40:21,484
Speaker 2: grandmother was like, is diphtheria? I know the smell of

738
00:40:21,524 --> 00:40:24,924
Speaker 2: diphtheria from just you know, being like in the trenches.

739
00:40:25,604 --> 00:40:27,844
Speaker 2: You need to treat her for diphtheria or she's going

740
00:40:27,884 --> 00:40:30,964
Speaker 2: to die in ten minutes. And they did and it

741
00:40:30,964 --> 00:40:34,604
Speaker 2: saved her life. So it's just like information like that

742
00:40:34,604 --> 00:40:36,884
Speaker 2: that I find that it's very helpful to have in

743
00:40:36,964 --> 00:40:41,324
Speaker 2: terms of you know, risk mitigation, but also like from

744
00:40:41,404 --> 00:40:44,684
Speaker 2: a business point of view, in terms of like team management.

745
00:40:44,724 --> 00:40:47,684
Speaker 2: I'm also very early. I try to be very early

746
00:40:47,724 --> 00:40:50,364
Speaker 2: to catch things like I'm not going to wait for

747
00:40:50,404 --> 00:40:55,124
Speaker 2: some like major accident like somebody falling down the stairs,

748
00:40:55,724 --> 00:41:01,244
Speaker 2: some like horrific like harassment situation. I try to look

749
00:41:01,284 --> 00:41:04,484
Speaker 2: at like general conditions that could lead to a catastrophic

750
00:41:04,524 --> 00:41:08,884
Speaker 2: outcome and eliminate the risk. That's the other thing I do.

751
00:41:09,124 --> 00:41:11,004
Speaker 1: So, So what's next for you, Henry.

752
00:41:11,284 --> 00:41:15,884
Speaker 2: I'm working on a cool museum project in the city

753
00:41:16,324 --> 00:41:18,324
Speaker 2: that I'll be able to talk about in a couple

754
00:41:18,324 --> 00:41:23,524
Speaker 2: of months. I am working on a little kind of hotel,

755
00:41:23,564 --> 00:41:26,964
Speaker 2: bike shop, restaurant project in the Catskills where I live

756
00:41:27,084 --> 00:41:29,684
Speaker 2: most of the time. A lot of the things I

757
00:41:29,724 --> 00:41:31,364
Speaker 2: do are just like things that kind of I want.

758
00:41:31,404 --> 00:41:34,124
Speaker 2: I opened a little like grow grocery store in my

759
00:41:34,204 --> 00:41:36,764
Speaker 2: town as well, just just to have more access to

760
00:41:36,804 --> 00:41:41,244
Speaker 2: local produce. And then I'm kind of pivoting to more

761
00:41:41,364 --> 00:41:45,724
Speaker 2: focus on just this book on you know, individual action

762
00:41:45,924 --> 00:41:51,364
Speaker 2: and kind of building climate identity as a consumer in

763
00:41:51,404 --> 00:41:54,604
Speaker 2: the ways in which you know, being of this generation,

764
00:41:54,724 --> 00:41:57,684
Speaker 2: whether we like it or not. I think a lot

765
00:41:57,724 --> 00:42:00,044
Speaker 2: of the meaning of one's life as you look back

766
00:42:00,084 --> 00:42:02,924
Speaker 2: in it will be you know, what individual parts that

767
00:42:03,004 --> 00:42:07,124
Speaker 2: I play in this like massive success or you know,

768
00:42:07,204 --> 00:42:10,884
Speaker 2: catastrophic failure and being able to look back at your

769
00:42:10,884 --> 00:42:14,604
Speaker 2: whole life and you know, one won't be able to

770
00:42:14,684 --> 00:42:18,604
Speaker 2: hide from yourself what you know when and just again

771
00:42:18,644 --> 00:42:21,684
Speaker 2: the risk of looking back and not liking what I

772
00:42:21,724 --> 00:42:26,684
Speaker 2: see is haunting for me. And I also think that

773
00:42:26,724 --> 00:42:30,444
Speaker 2: there's a lot of like low grade anxiety that people

774
00:42:30,484 --> 00:42:35,324
Speaker 2: feel about not the threat, but the paralysis. So trying

775
00:42:35,364 --> 00:42:38,964
Speaker 2: to create tools and you know, heuristics for people to

776
00:42:39,884 --> 00:42:43,564
Speaker 2: actually tap into someone to feel good about and not

777
00:42:43,684 --> 00:42:47,724
Speaker 2: just feel you know, low key sleepwalking toward armageddon Like

778
00:42:47,924 --> 00:42:51,364
Speaker 2: that's that's an odd Like there's a lot of issues

779
00:42:51,404 --> 00:42:54,644
Speaker 2: in the world that I can name, like nuclear proliferation.

780
00:42:55,124 --> 00:42:57,484
Speaker 2: I mean, there's many many things where there's literally nothing

781
00:42:57,604 --> 00:42:59,964
Speaker 2: you can do if you're just a normal person who's

782
00:43:00,004 --> 00:43:01,964
Speaker 2: not like in the top tier of government or think tank.

783
00:43:02,044 --> 00:43:05,044
Speaker 2: But climate you know that that's one where we all

784
00:43:05,084 --> 00:43:08,804
Speaker 2: have an actual role. I think people just need a

785
00:43:08,804 --> 00:43:11,084
Speaker 2: bit of guidance and some tools to help them get there.

786
00:43:11,124 --> 00:43:15,164
Speaker 2: So opening these, you know whatever, climate positive restaurants, I've

787
00:43:15,204 --> 00:43:18,884
Speaker 2: had thousands of interactions on a consumer level with people

788
00:43:18,884 --> 00:43:21,484
Speaker 2: being like what is this, Like I don't I feel

789
00:43:21,524 --> 00:43:24,284
Speaker 2: like you're lying to me, Like I don't feel better

790
00:43:24,324 --> 00:43:26,524
Speaker 2: after coming here because like now the rest of my

791
00:43:26,644 --> 00:43:30,444
Speaker 2: life feels like it's problematic and just the ways in

792
00:43:30,484 --> 00:43:34,404
Speaker 2: which trying to create this climate positive experience it just

793
00:43:34,444 --> 00:43:38,804
Speaker 2: didn't have anywhere to land for people emotionally, and just

794
00:43:38,844 --> 00:43:42,924
Speaker 2: trying to work on that larger background issue of not

795
00:43:44,004 --> 00:43:46,324
Speaker 2: having a way to account for non financial values like

796
00:43:46,684 --> 00:43:51,884
Speaker 2: doing you know, the right thing, and to actually feel

797
00:43:51,924 --> 00:43:53,764
Speaker 2: good about that, to feel joy right and to have

798
00:43:53,884 --> 00:43:56,484
Speaker 2: it like help cut down on that low grade anxiety.

799
00:43:56,684 --> 00:44:00,004
Speaker 2: It's a rationally selfish thing to do if people only

800
00:44:00,324 --> 00:44:02,604
Speaker 2: had a place to put that good feeling. So kind

801
00:44:02,604 --> 00:44:03,564
Speaker 2: of working on that.

802
00:44:04,124 --> 00:44:06,244
Speaker 1: I love that and I think that's a really beautiful

803
00:44:06,284 --> 00:44:11,564
Speaker 1: place to end. This was incredibly interesting and very inspiring.

804
00:44:12,164 --> 00:44:14,884
Speaker 1: So I hope that your I hope that your approach

805
00:44:14,924 --> 00:44:17,684
Speaker 1: to risk and kind of your example will indeed help people.

806
00:44:18,484 --> 00:44:20,444
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for sharing, thank you for

807
00:44:20,524 --> 00:44:26,004
Speaker 1: joining us, and I, as a personal selfish consumer, can't

808
00:44:26,004 --> 00:44:28,004
Speaker 1: wait for your next restaurant to open.

809
00:44:28,564 --> 00:44:30,044
Speaker 2: Thanks Maria, really great to see you.

810
00:44:30,604 --> 00:44:35,964
Speaker 1: Good to see you too. Let us know what you

811
00:44:36,004 --> 00:44:38,404
Speaker 1: think of the show. Reach out to us at Risky

812
00:44:38,444 --> 00:44:42,644
Speaker 1: Business at pushkin dot fm. Risky Business is hosted by me,

813
00:44:42,844 --> 00:44:45,924
Speaker 1: Maria Kandikova and Nate Silver, who will be back next week.

814
00:44:46,404 --> 00:44:49,444
Speaker 1: The show is a co production of Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia.

815
00:44:50,044 --> 00:44:53,804
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Isabel Carter. Our associate producer

816
00:44:53,844 --> 00:44:57,764
Speaker 1: is Gabriel Hunter Chang. Our executive producer is Jacob Goldstein.

817
00:44:58,244 --> 00:45:01,364
Speaker 1: Sarah Bruguer is our engineer. If you like the show,

818
00:45:01,444 --> 00:45:03,684
Speaker 1: please rate and review us so other people can find

819
00:45:03,764 --> 00:45:05,924
Speaker 1: us too. And if you want to listen to an

820
00:45:05,924 --> 00:45:09,044
Speaker 1: ad free version, sign up for Pushkin Plus. For six,

821
00:45:09,204 --> 00:45:11,964
Speaker 1: nine nine a month, you get access to ad free listening.

822
00:45:12,364 --> 00:45:13,244
Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in.