1
00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:07,760
Speaker 1: Also media, Ah, what's cold? My open it? Well that

2
00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,520
Speaker 1: doesn't sound very good at all. Cody, come on in here,

3
00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,440
Speaker 1: help me out with this. I hey, like, I'm floundering here.

4
00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,120
Speaker 2: What's intro? Myduction? How's it going? Everybody out there?

5
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,480
Speaker 1: What a pro? What a pro? Just knocked it out

6
00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:25,200
Speaker 1: of the park, Cody, Welcome to my show, d Behind

7
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,640
Speaker 1: the Bastards a podcast bad Thank you all about him? Cody.

8
00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,159
Speaker 1: It has been an eventful news week since we started

9
00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,240
Speaker 1: the r K Junior episodes.

10
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:36,840
Speaker 2: It really has.

11
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:37,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

12
00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that until we hopped on again. How

13
00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:43,720
Speaker 2: it happened since last week record?

14
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,880
Speaker 3: I was like, hey, Cody, remember that when we recorded

15
00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,440
Speaker 3: the day before former President Trump had an assassination attempt

16
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:52,040
Speaker 3: on his life.

17
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,320
Speaker 2: It was the day before the day before, and then

18
00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 2: and then it kept going. The news just kept going.

19
00:00:58,480 --> 00:00:59,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, the news kept going.

20
00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,520
Speaker 4: Attempted assassination attempt r n C. Who jd Vance?

21
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:05,440
Speaker 2: What a weird guy?

22
00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,120
Speaker 1: Uh? Yeah? Jd Vance buck the couch, all the all

23
00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:09,760
Speaker 1: the hells.

24
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,640
Speaker 5: Then it was then it was Jovid, and then it

25
00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,480
Speaker 5: was jover and and now.

26
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:16,160
Speaker 4: We're here.

27
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,959
Speaker 1: Age I don't know. Yeah, the k Hives glorious return

28
00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 1: I guess what a wild time. So I don't know,

29
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,520
Speaker 1: we'll say what what next week brings.

30
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,759
Speaker 2: Uh, I mean maybe tomorrow or today something will happen.

31
00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,600
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe maybe things will just never stop happening now.

32
00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe things are always going to keep happening. Yeah. Fuck,

33
00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,960
Speaker 1: I don't even know what else to say about it.

34
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,280
Speaker 1: But you know who understands the way our current national

35
00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:54,760
Speaker 1: feeling of whiplash and uh, just like mind dulling shock,

36
00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,080
Speaker 1: uh is a guy who has been going through it

37
00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:09,640
Speaker 1: longer than we have our FK Junior Junior. I sat

38
00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,000
Speaker 1: down to write these episodes basically when I was on

39
00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,400
Speaker 1: the plane to the RNC right after Trump had been

40
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,919
Speaker 1: a shot, and like the whole the jarring nature of

41
00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,880
Speaker 1: just that, which was several twists in the national story ago,

42
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,640
Speaker 1: made me think of RFK Junior. Obviously, the you know,

43
00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,240
Speaker 1: the obvious reason would be that you know, he lost

44
00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,000
Speaker 1: his dad during a presidential campaign because an assassin shot him.

45
00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,000
Speaker 2: Right, well, yeah, assassination attempts, I think, just make you

46
00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:37,359
Speaker 2: think of Kennedy's.

47
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,079
Speaker 1: Right, right obviously. Yeah, and yeah it kind of continues.

48
00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:42,880
Speaker 1: You know that campaign they had to find a new

49
00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,400
Speaker 1: guy to run, didn't wind up working out well in

50
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,800
Speaker 1: this case, and that it kind of continues these weird, distorted,

51
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,240
Speaker 1: maybe reversed echoes of nineteen sixty eight, that this whole

52
00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,760
Speaker 1: election has where it's like, it's a lot like sixty eight.

53
00:02:55,639 --> 00:03:00,880
Speaker 2: But not it's so interesting, howeah, it's so like it,

54
00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:01,800
Speaker 2: but so not.

55
00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:07,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Mostly I thought of RFK Junior, because the whole

56
00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,920
Speaker 1: sordid business was clear, Like everything that happened to Trump,

57
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,639
Speaker 1: like everything detail that's come out about the Corey comparatory,

58
00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,360
Speaker 1: the guy who died instead of Trump's, it's really clear

59
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,640
Speaker 1: evidence of the severe, maybe terminal brain rot at the

60
00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 1: heart of this country. You know, not just our fetishistic

61
00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,320
Speaker 1: love of guns, although that's a part of it, or

62
00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,639
Speaker 1: all the conspiracy theories, but the casual derangement of even regular,

63
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,240
Speaker 1: everyday people, the warping of sins and sensibility that you

64
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 1: have to endure not only is part of life here,

65
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,800
Speaker 1: but to like survive in the United States. In the

66
00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,480
Speaker 1: first comments I made to my own posts on the assassination,

67
00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,160
Speaker 1: I saw people theorizing that it was a false flag.

68
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,760
Speaker 1: That one of my favorites, and I think we're even

69
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,760
Speaker 1: past this now, was that Trump had bladed himself slicing

70
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,240
Speaker 1: his own ear with the hidden racer like a wrestler.

71
00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,360
Speaker 1: And then on the right wing side, obviously people immediately

72
00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,160
Speaker 1: decided to blame the female Secret Service age on Trump's team.

73
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:03,360
Speaker 4: America.

74
00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:09,960
Speaker 2: He means the women after he was already shot at.

75
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:16,159
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, he immediately he thanked during his speech because

76
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,880
Speaker 1: obviously you're not going to talk shit about your bodyguards.

77
00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be a bad move.

78
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,279
Speaker 1: But what's really going on with all of this is

79
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,000
Speaker 1: that reality has fractured entirely in this country. The shooting

80
00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,080
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump was a prism, and the color of

81
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,280
Speaker 1: light that we run through that prism and the direction

82
00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,679
Speaker 1: we shoot at it is going to determine what comes

83
00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,840
Speaker 1: out the other end. We're living in like reality a

84
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,880
Speaker 1: la carte. You and me and everyone we know. We're

85
00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,880
Speaker 1: in the process of coping with this, and we're doing

86
00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,359
Speaker 1: mixed jobs of it. But RFK Junior has spent his

87
00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,280
Speaker 1: entire life pretty much in this space. Right for him,

88
00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,800
Speaker 1: reality fractured back in nineteen sixty eight, and there's never

89
00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,719
Speaker 1: really been any chance of fixing what's broken. We've already

90
00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,120
Speaker 1: discussed a few of the ways that he started coping

91
00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,480
Speaker 1: with this brokenness as a young man. Some of these

92
00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,359
Speaker 1: ways were not unhealthy. You know. He leaned into his hobbies,

93
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,279
Speaker 1: even if they are crazy, rich guy hobbies.

94
00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:10,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he leaned into his hobbies. Described the hobbies before.

95
00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,760
Speaker 1: They're baffling. Yeah, they're unhinged hobbies, but they are hobbies, hobbies,

96
00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,640
Speaker 1: And he and his friends used humor to help themselves

97
00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,440
Speaker 1: cope and find control in the chaos, which is, you know,

98
00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,560
Speaker 1: not a bad way to deal with it. But he

99
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,880
Speaker 1: also turned to drugs to cope. And when you've got

100
00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,279
Speaker 1: a fracture, you know, a fractured bone or a fracture

101
00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:32,400
Speaker 1: of reality, nothing covers up the pain like heroin. Bobby

102
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,160
Speaker 1: was using heroin and any other narcotic he could get

103
00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,320
Speaker 1: his hands on by the time he got to Harvard,

104
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,800
Speaker 1: and that was not his only coping tactic for dealing

105
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,359
Speaker 1: with the pain and uncertainty of a world that for

106
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,520
Speaker 1: him had never been quite sane. Lim Billings remained his

107
00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,800
Speaker 1: primary adult authority figure and anchor to sanity. Now Lim

108
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,839
Speaker 1: legitimately cared about him, which put Bobby ahead of a

109
00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,880
Speaker 1: lot of his fellows. But Lim also wanted him to

110
00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,039
Speaker 1: be the new JFK, and Bobby wanted to oblige him.

111
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,800
Speaker 1: JFK had first risen to superstardom by dint of his

112
00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,440
Speaker 1: perceived tremendous heroism as the captain of PT one O nine.

113
00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,880
Speaker 1: That heroism had already helped drive another Uncle Joe to

114
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,920
Speaker 1: an early grave. But Lim felt that for Bobby to

115
00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,560
Speaker 1: have a chance of taking on that mantle, he needed

116
00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,640
Speaker 1: to do something brave, something that would just as crucially

117
00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,280
Speaker 1: let him make the news for being brave. And I'm

118
00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,800
Speaker 1: going to quote again from Oppenheimer's book here as to

119
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:31,039
Speaker 1: what they decided to do in the summer of nineteen

120
00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 1: seventy four, before Bobby began his junior year at Harvard.

121
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 1: Lim Billings proposed that they explore the very isolated and

122
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,919
Speaker 1: dangerous a paramac Reverence Southern Peru, and adventure that Bildings

123
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,560
Speaker 1: had convinced Bobby would engrave his name alongside that of

124
00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,240
Speaker 1: his father and his uncle Jack in terms of bravery

125
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,760
Speaker 1: and daring. Several of his school chums went along, as

126
00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,559
Speaker 1: well as David Kennedy, and they benefited from the best

127
00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,600
Speaker 1: guides and equipment that money could buy. But there's a

128
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,720
Speaker 1: fairly low ceiling on how safe a journey like this

129
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,159
Speaker 1: could be right. You're all you're going to be in

130
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,880
Speaker 1: danger even if you have the money for the best equipment.

131
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,159
Speaker 1: And Bobby immediately gets dysentery, and his dysentery is exacerbated,

132
00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,400
Speaker 1: as Oppenheimer writes, by his refusal to eat anything but

133
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,239
Speaker 1: the weirdest shit he could find, quote including boiled rat,

134
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,960
Speaker 1: pulling out the eyes from the dead rodan's head and

135
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,560
Speaker 1: popping them into his mouth. Billings, who idolized Bobby, did

136
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,360
Speaker 1: the same. Bobby could also kill a chicken for food

137
00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,440
Speaker 1: in a split second by snapping its neck between two

138
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,800
Speaker 1: of his fingers, and he had the ability to drink

139
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,800
Speaker 1: half a bottle of beer then press his hand down

140
00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,000
Speaker 1: on the bottle's mouth, making the thick glass bottom fall out.

141
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:41,400
Speaker 2: Bobby, what are you doing? Life?

142
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,160
Speaker 1: Just like what a sicko?

143
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,920
Speaker 4: What a sicko. He's not even a weirdo, he's a

144
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:47,440
Speaker 4: sick of.

145
00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,400
Speaker 1: It's like that baffling.

146
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:54,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's just like a level here. That's it's

147
00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,680
Speaker 2: not even like you're like, oh you're up here. It's parallel.

148
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,120
Speaker 2: You've escaled, you've escaped here and you've gone sideways to

149
00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:07,000
Speaker 2: just this other world that is ah, well, did it

150
00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,200
Speaker 2: cures dysentery eating the rats.

151
00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,080
Speaker 1: I don't think it cured is dysentery, Cody, I do

152
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,640
Speaker 1: think it again, I think it explains the worm.

153
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,080
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, like when you were like, he

154
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,160
Speaker 2: decided they decided to do something like dangerous. I was like,

155
00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,800
Speaker 2: so they decided to give him a brainworm. They were

156
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,600
Speaker 2: just like, we're gonna put this in your brain.

157
00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna live on the river, right.

158
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, like voluntarily getting a skull.

159
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,040
Speaker 1: America will love you, Bobby, if you live on the

160
00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:41,240
Speaker 1: river and eat rat ies. Some Americans were so funny,

161
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,880
Speaker 1: so they brought with them on this journey down the

162
00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,120
Speaker 1: river in Peru a veritable medicine cabinet full of drugs

163
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 1: which a doctor had given them to accommodate potential illnesses.

164
00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,920
Speaker 1: Bobby put himself in charge of the trip's medicine cabinet,

165
00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,520
Speaker 1: and mostly he spent the trip downing every bit of

166
00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,720
Speaker 1: morphine and every OPIUF that they had been given. Now

167
00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,680
Speaker 1: having been I've had dysentery before, and I would have

168
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,000
Speaker 1: taken morphine if I'd had the opportunity. But his friends

169
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,320
Speaker 1: were frustrated because when they were sick and they asked

170
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,480
Speaker 1: for medicine. He would tell them, no, man, we got

171
00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,280
Speaker 1: to save the drugs for emergencies.

172
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:19,480
Speaker 2: Well he's not wrong.

173
00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:21,280
Speaker 1: You shouldn't have saved.

174
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,760
Speaker 2: That's what he was doing. But the thing, it's true

175
00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:26,840
Speaker 2: lie that he said.

176
00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a true lie. That's where that movie came from.

177
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,040
Speaker 1: Cody RFK holding out on his friends in the jungle.

178
00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,720
Speaker 1: So David became kind of unsettled.

179
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,560
Speaker 2: In the dark the quarter, it's being like, no eat

180
00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,920
Speaker 2: the rat. Slowly he did sexually.

181
00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,559
Speaker 1: So David was unsettled by his brother's behavior in the jungle,

182
00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,240
Speaker 1: but cousin Chris Lawford was amazed. He considered this trip

183
00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,360
Speaker 1: they were taking such a JFK worthy act that he

184
00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,360
Speaker 1: started referring to Bobby as Jack and Lim Lim is like, yes,

185
00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:03,480
Speaker 1: call him Jack.

186
00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:08,200
Speaker 2: No worse, that makes it so much worse. You're ruining him.

187
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:09,880
Speaker 2: You're like destroying this man.

188
00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,600
Speaker 6: This is like the most most brain damage I can

189
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:15,840
Speaker 6: imagine giving a young man.

190
00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,240
Speaker 2: Just like popping him full of drugs and calling him Jack.

191
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,679
Speaker 2: Like that's not good for doing.

192
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,960
Speaker 1: A heart of darkness, to turn him into his uncle.

193
00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:29,320
Speaker 2: God, what do you expect again? Just like no chance

194
00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,080
Speaker 2: this guy, no chance.

195
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,960
Speaker 1: No you gotta remember, he's incredibly good looking as a

196
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,360
Speaker 1: young man. He's got that Kennedy good looks, and so

197
00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,360
Speaker 1: his friends he's very photogenic. His friends take pictures of

198
00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,600
Speaker 1: Bobby like fording rivers and doing these insane whitewater rapids

199
00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,440
Speaker 1: rides and everything, and they get into the news because

200
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,600
Speaker 1: he's a Kennedy, right, anything he does is newsworthy, and

201
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,199
Speaker 1: people are so excited by these pictures of Bobby Kennedy

202
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,800
Speaker 1: Junior looking hot on the river like like a little adventurer,

203
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,319
Speaker 1: that it draws the attention of a forward thinking TV

204
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,080
Speaker 1: executive who like sees these and is like, oh, there's

205
00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,040
Speaker 1: potential here, Cody. You want to guess the name of

206
00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,239
Speaker 1: that TV executive?

207
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,079
Speaker 2: Oh? No, is it?

208
00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:11,240
Speaker 1: Is?

209
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,720
Speaker 2: It an Ales kind of guy.

210
00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,000
Speaker 1: Roger literally Roger?

211
00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:22,000
Speaker 2: As it is? It is, Oh, well, good for that

212
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:23,959
Speaker 2: relationship to blossom.

213
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,360
Speaker 1: Who else could it have been?

214
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,480
Speaker 2: Who else could it have been? I know? But my god?

215
00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,400
Speaker 1: All right, yeah, there's three guys into a world.

216
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,040
Speaker 2: There are three people, like the world has three guys

217
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,600
Speaker 2: and they just bounce around.

218
00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,920
Speaker 1: Now, the future father of Fox News was at this

219
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,400
Speaker 1: point consulting for TV in a prototype conservative news network

220
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,559
Speaker 1: funded by the heir to the Core's beer fortune.

221
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:55,240
Speaker 2: Uh.

222
00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,880
Speaker 1: This all culminated in a TV show their relationship. Ales

223
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,719
Speaker 1: and Bobby's on a TV show about Bobby's next adventure

224
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,920
Speaker 1: this time, No, they were going to put him in

225
00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,720
Speaker 1: in Africa. They were going to do a safari in

226
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,679
Speaker 1: Africa with Bobby Kennedy Junior, titled The Last Frontier. Some

227
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,040
Speaker 1: of the details of this are interesting. Bobby was a smoker,

228
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,880
Speaker 1: but he refused to be filmed smoking on camera because

229
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,160
Speaker 1: he felt that public figures shouldn't smoke. He at this

230
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,800
Speaker 1: point claimed he didn't want to be He accepted that

231
00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:28,599
Speaker 1: he was a public figure, but he didn't want to

232
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,800
Speaker 1: have a political career, which given what happened to his

233
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,720
Speaker 1: uncle and his dad, makes complete sense. Sure, he told

234
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,520
Speaker 1: this to Ales during an interview. People with advantages in

235
00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 1: our society can use them to change the system and

236
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,840
Speaker 1: help large groups of people. The more they have advantages,

237
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,960
Speaker 1: the more they can help, and the more they should help.

238
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,679
Speaker 1: So's that's his attitude at this point in his life, right, Sure, which.

239
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,480
Speaker 2: Is I mean, I appreciate his position on public figures

240
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,920
Speaker 2: not smoking cigarettes. He like understands like yeah, like this

241
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,640
Speaker 2: is a tacit endorsement, and I can make my decision, but.

242
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I shouldn't push it on kids or use the

243
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,440
Speaker 1: level of cool that I have by virtue of being

244
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:08,800
Speaker 1: a Kennedy to like make this.

245
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,960
Speaker 2: And I'm a Kennedy, got all these advantages and privileges

246
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,800
Speaker 2: and stuff. I should use them to help people. And

247
00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,360
Speaker 2: right right on, you should maybe talk to somebody other

248
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:18,280
Speaker 2: than Roger Hale's.

249
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,320
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll talk to Roger Ales about this. He may

250
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,920
Speaker 1: not be gat to help, but you get where he

251
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,440
Speaker 1: comes from here. He also get where this can lead

252
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 1: in toxic directions, right because like the idea that you know,

253
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,800
Speaker 1: to whom much is given, much is owede. There's a

254
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,680
Speaker 1: degree of sense in that, but it also leads to

255
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,000
Speaker 1: this no less oblige idea that like, well, we're the

256
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,680
Speaker 1: natural ruling class, you know, America needs me running things.

257
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,120
Speaker 1: He's not there yet, but that's where he's going to head.

258
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,920
Speaker 1: From what I can tell, he did fine on camera.

259
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,560
Speaker 1: He was a good like person to film, I guess,

260
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,680
Speaker 1: but he claims he didn't really enjoy the work quote

261
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,360
Speaker 1: I'm no actor. If we had to do a second take,

262
00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,719
Speaker 1: I just fell apart. It was fun, though I knew

263
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,200
Speaker 1: I did have to adapt to this environment in Africa.

264
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,240
Speaker 1: I wasn't stuck somewhere that I couldn't get out of.

265
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,320
Speaker 1: It was sort of like Harvard students working in a

266
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,760
Speaker 1: factory and playing blue collar workers for a while. I

267
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,760
Speaker 1: don't know if it's how like that it is.

268
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:17,800
Speaker 2: I mean, well, right, like it's like in that example,

269
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,560
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, you're like kind of faking like you're

270
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,160
Speaker 2: this person. You're doing this thing, like you're like you're

271
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:28,840
Speaker 2: like that, but like this guy's hawking by like ransom meat. Like, yeah,

272
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,960
Speaker 2: this isn't like he's not cause playing as a weirdo

273
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 2: who does this right.

274
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, he does come by the eating bush meat, honestly,

275
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 1: bush meat morphine. Yeah, that's his breakfast of champions.

276
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,920
Speaker 2: He's not you know, there's no pretending there. That's no

277
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:47,080
Speaker 2: pure Bobby.

278
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 1: That is pure Bobby. Speaking of Harvard, though, Bobby was

279
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 1: not a student who did very well. Right, there's not

280
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,440
Speaker 1: a lot to write home about in terms of his

281
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 1: academic performance. But in nineteen seventy five, while he is

282
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,440
Speaker 1: entering his twenties and starting on the path to becoming

283
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 1: a lawyer and adventuring in his part time, one of

284
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:09,000
Speaker 1: his cousins probably but not definitely, committed a murder. Cody.

285
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,960
Speaker 1: There's another swing here, right, They're always are. There's a

286
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,680
Speaker 1: lot of deaths and scandals within the Kennedys, and most

287
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,640
Speaker 1: people just know about the big ones, but boy, there's

288
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:22,160
Speaker 1: a lot.

289
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:22,600
Speaker 2: Now.

290
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 1: We're not going to cover all of them, but this

291
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,040
Speaker 1: one is extremely relevant because Bobby is going to put

292
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,600
Speaker 1: himself in the middle of this case as an adult.

293
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,920
Speaker 1: So the victim here was the daughter of another wealthy,

294
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,000
Speaker 1: prominent family who lived near the Kennedy compound, fifteen year

295
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,600
Speaker 1: old Martha Moxley. And I'm going to quote from an

296
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,320
Speaker 1: article in the New York Times. Here, Martha Moxley, fifteen,

297
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,640
Speaker 1: fails to show up at home after roaming her neighborhood

298
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,680
Speaker 1: in Greenwich with her friends. Her body is found bludgeoned

299
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,120
Speaker 1: and stabbed, half hidden beneath pine trees. A broken golf

300
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,520
Speaker 1: club is found nearby, believed to have been used in

301
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,400
Speaker 1: the killing. The murder rattles the town, which is considered

302
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,920
Speaker 1: extremely safe. Nearly two years after the tea's death, many

303
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,480
Speaker 1: Greenwich residents wonder why a broad police investigation has yielded

304
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,400
Speaker 1: no arrests. Martha was last seen alive on the lawn

305
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,600
Speaker 1: of a friend, Thomas Scackle, seventeen, Michael's older brother. The

306
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,440
Speaker 1: brothers are nephews of Ethel Scackle Kennedy, the widow of

307
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,600
Speaker 1: Robert F. Kennedy. The police traced the golf club used

308
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,800
Speaker 1: in the killings to the collection of the Scackle family.

309
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,960
Speaker 1: Thomas and another young man are considered suspects, though both

310
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:28,000
Speaker 1: past lie detector tests. So that's fucked up right now.

311
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,760
Speaker 1: Bobby's not involved at all in this at this point, right,

312
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,760
Speaker 1: He's not going to be involved for years. But I

313
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,880
Speaker 1: needed this is kind of when this happens chronologically in

314
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,560
Speaker 1: the Bobby Kennedy story, and I'll need you to remember

315
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,720
Speaker 1: Martha Moxley because this whole case is going to become

316
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,960
Speaker 1: very relevant later. So later in nineteen seventy five, the

317
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,720
Speaker 1: same year that this happened, Bobby got involved in his

318
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,400
Speaker 1: first political campaign, not as a candidate, but helping his

319
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,240
Speaker 1: college buddy Peter Shapiro win election to the local Assembly

320
00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,600
Speaker 1: in New Jersey. Bobby mostly knocked on doors, but Shapiro

321
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,920
Speaker 1: would later claim that his mere presence got the news

322
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,360
Speaker 1: attention and is probably what sinsed him the election. Right,

323
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,840
Speaker 1: I got elected because I had a Kennedy on my

324
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,560
Speaker 1: back and like that still holds a lot of water.

325
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,960
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy six, Bobby was in his final year

326
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,040
Speaker 1: at Harvard, and he picked as the subject for his thesis,

327
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:25,320
Speaker 1: recent historical and political changes in Alabama. Governor George Wallace,

328
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,879
Speaker 1: the segregation forever guy, had just been shot and paralyzed

329
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 1: in an assassination attempt. Bobby recalled later being shocked to

330
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 1: find that the poor white, working class people who'd been

331
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,959
Speaker 1: the backbone of his uncle's presidential victory had shifted political

332
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:44,760
Speaker 1: allegiances right basically, like, Wow, these different states that used

333
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,800
Speaker 1: to be the stronghold of the Democratic Party with my

334
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,160
Speaker 1: dad was in charge, they all seem to be very racist. Now,

335
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,920
Speaker 1: what could have possibly happened? How do we solve for this?

336
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,520
Speaker 2: No, there's no political theory about that.

337
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:01,760
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, one's no. One spent a lot

338
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,480
Speaker 1: of time studying, and Bobby eventually he's got to find

339
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,920
Speaker 1: out how to get those people back on his side. Unfortunately,

340
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,399
Speaker 1: but we're getting ahead of ourselves. Bobby and his friend

341
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,879
Speaker 1: Peter Kaplan even wound up interviewing Wallace for the thesis.

342
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,639
Speaker 1: Although Oppenheimer speculates that Bobby didn't actually write the thesis.

343
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,000
Speaker 1: He thinks that Bobby had Peter do it for him,

344
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,200
Speaker 1: which is exactly how Bobby works. Right, It's good enough

345
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,359
Speaker 1: that I attached my name to this. I don't actually

346
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,239
Speaker 1: have to sit down and write the goddamn thing, right,

347
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,560
Speaker 1: someone else can? People just need to see a Kennedy's exactly.

348
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,320
Speaker 1: He's a Kennedy. We don't do our own things.

349
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,080
Speaker 4: Plus plus he's he's too busy hawk two eying.

350
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:44,240
Speaker 1: Oh god, what Sophie. That that joke was two weeks ago.

351
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,439
Speaker 1: We moved on. I have passed that I'm.

352
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:47,880
Speaker 4: Still at the restaurant, which is a joke.

353
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 3: You don't.

354
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:49,280
Speaker 4: Also, that was at.

355
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,840
Speaker 2: Least that was one attempted assassination ago.

356
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 1: That was one attempted presidential assassination. To go, we're past it.

357
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,159
Speaker 1: I wonder if the hawk twoy girl had something to

358
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:05,520
Speaker 1: do with shooting Trump. Not impossible, Not impossible? Yeah, yeah,

359
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,359
Speaker 1: because I know she's a Biden stand now, so.

360
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,200
Speaker 4: You know, what is possible that it's time for ads?

361
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 1: It is possible that it's time for ADS. I can't

362
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,879
Speaker 1: guarantee that, I can't prove it, you know, I just

363
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 1: have a gut feeling in my heart, deep down inside, mate,

364
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 1: that it might be time for ads. We are back.

365
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:35,320
Speaker 1: So RFK, you know, nineteen seventy six, does his thesis

366
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 1: and it's going to be a couple years later after

367
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,480
Speaker 1: he's he's out of college, kind of doing law school,

368
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,440
Speaker 1: so he's graduated from Harvard that he's going to help

369
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 1: in another election campaign. This one in nineteen eighty is

370
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 1: his uncle Ted's reelection campaign. David Horowitz, future co writer

371
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,880
Speaker 1: of the book The Kennedy's, was with him for this,

372
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,480
Speaker 1: and even though Bobby had a girlfriend at the time,

373
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,159
Speaker 1: Horowitz later wrote, Bobby had a girl in every place.

374
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 1: There were women there like moths to the flame. I

375
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,400
Speaker 1: just know that he was fucking everything in sight. By

376
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,400
Speaker 1: the end of the day, the rest of us were exhausted,

377
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 1: and Bobby was ill, had the flu or something, and

378
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,879
Speaker 1: all of us collapsed. But there was a girl waiting

379
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 1: for him. I was younger then, and I'm a healthy male,

380
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't have wanted just to go to bed

381
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 1: with a strange woman. What is another fuck going to

382
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 1: do for you? It was just insanity, compulsive, nutty with him.

383
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,160
Speaker 1: Maybe in his mind he was building this heroic myth.

384
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 1: He certainly couldn't have been getting a lot of pleasure

385
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 1: when he was running over a one hundred fever and

386
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,440
Speaker 1: looked really ill and was horse. He had one girl

387
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,880
Speaker 1: who was a campaign worker, so he always had that one.

388
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,440
Speaker 1: At one campaign event, he just went off to screw her.

389
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 1: So I think what's interesting about that because Horowitz is

390
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 1: kind of a slimy figure in this He's writing this

391
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 1: book basically taking notes on his friends as they're doing this.

392
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,919
Speaker 1: But I'm interested in the fact that he's, like, maybe

393
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 1: he was having all of this casual sex with every

394
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 1: woman he could find, even when it did not make

395
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,920
Speaker 1: him happy he was ill. He saw it as part

396
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 1: of the myth, like his dad and his uncle are

397
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,360
Speaker 1: both these famous philanderers, and he's like, he's New Jack, right,

398
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 1: He's New Jack. Right, I have to fuck everything that'll

399
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 1: have me. Right, I'm the New Jack. And that's what

400
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 1: Jack did.

401
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I mean, yeah, he's trying to do that.

402
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's in New Jack City here. Yeah. So Bobby

403
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 1: also keeps using heroin heavily alongside limb billings. Horowitz were

404
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: called that during Ted's campaign, they would drink heavily and

405
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,160
Speaker 1: like one of the things they would do because there's

406
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,399
Speaker 1: no laws for Kennedy's, He and his friends would all

407
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,160
Speaker 1: be in a motorcade together and they would be passing

408
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: beer and cigarettes between each other's vehicles while driving. Horowitz wrote,

409
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 1: that's the kinds of things Bobby did, perfectly illegal and crazy,

410
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: and he did them because he was used to people

411
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: keeping silent, because nobody wants to be banished from the

412
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: Kennedy magic circle and lose access. Right, He's just like

413
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 1: breaking the law in dangerous ways to do it because

414
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:00,040
Speaker 1: he can.

415
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, flaunting it. It's almost like a challenge. Uh yeah,

416
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 2: try and stop me.

417
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: Try and stop me, and if you if you have

418
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: any issue with my behavior, then you're out. You're cut

419
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 1: off from the Kennedy's, and nobody wants to be cut

420
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: off from the Kennedy's. That's the most exciting thing you

421
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: can be connected to.

422
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, God, it's like a must torn with all so

423
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,160
Speaker 2: many of these stories. I'm like, that's like pretty cool,

424
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 2: but also like yeah, but also like don't do that

425
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 2: and obviously like you could have killed somebody, right, Like,

426
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 2: it's just like scumbag rich kid behavior, right.

427
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: Ted Kennedy had that chap aqutic right exactly, like, oh, yeah,

428
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: you get you people do are not do not care

429
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 1: if you actually hurt somebody, right, as long as it's

430
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 1: not a Kennedy. Yeah, you don't really care that much

431
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: about hurting a Kennedy used.

432
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 2: To and you're like, yeah, you got so many.

433
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got plenty of Kennedy's. Horowitz describes Bobby's heroin

434
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 1: use this time at the time as accelerating due to

435
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: his associations with Lim, who goaded him on with promises

436
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:06,919
Speaker 1: that he's going to be like his uncle JFK in

437
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: the future. Right, we'll do we'll do Heroin and talk

438
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 1: about the fact that you're going to be the next.

439
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 2: Jack God.

440
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: Lim was doing. I love the way Horoinz writes this,

441
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: Lim was doing Heroin with Bobby and shooting delusions up

442
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 1: his ass that he would be president one day.

443
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 2: Wow.

444
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: That well, it's like he's on heroin, but the real

445
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: heroine is his uncle's legacy.

446
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 2: Right right then the words of encouragement are the real Yeah.

447
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: Never encouraged kids, you might make them into this god.

448
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: Bobby went to Uva after Harvard to continue his studies,

449
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: and he rented a room at a farm owned by

450
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: the family of one of his friends. One of the

451
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: women who lived there, Connie Dempsey, had serious issues with

452
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: how RFK handled his animals, particularly with the fact that

453
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: after moving away from Millbrook and the pit of rotting

454
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: carcass is there, he continued to want to fee his

455
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: hawk the grossest meat he could find. Oppenheimer writes he

456
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: had built an outdoor cage on Dimpsey's property to house

457
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: his falcon, but he also chose to feed it disgusting

458
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 1: roadkill that he's stored in Dempsey's home refrigerator. We tried

459
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,479
Speaker 1: to encourage him to buy chickens for this purpose, but

460
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: we weren't too successful.

461
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: The fuck is wrong with this guy, Like like this roadkill,

462
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 2: like dead rotting flesh thing is so fucking weird.

463
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 6: Man, Like I've almost I'm gonna put in their family refrigerator, letting.

464
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: Me live with them.

465
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 2: It's not just like the rotting flesh thing, which is weird,

466
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: but forcing it on everybody in his life, like in

467
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: this aggressive way, like it just it's gotten. It's too far,

468
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 2: it's too much at a certain age, Like I know, like, ah,

469
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 2: you're all these people are dying, you know, and like.

470
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: You deal with processing day.

471
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 2: To go to the rotty flesh pit, fine, but to

472
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: carry that for so long and give it to everybody

473
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: around just what's going on.

474
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: You can buy another refrigerator, but what happening here and

475
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:19,719
Speaker 1: this is you know, we've talked a lot about how

476
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: I think he has some legitimate skill with animals. He

477
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: has at this point, I think given that up to

478
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: a degree because he's he's so unreliable in terms of

479
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: where he is, Like he just leaves his dog with them.

480
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: He leaves these animals with the people who are like,

481
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: suppose taking care of him. There's always someone who will

482
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: let him live with them because he's a Kennedy and

483
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: he kind of just abandons his animals to them repeatedly.

484
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 2: Does he go get them back? Like is it like, oh,

485
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 2: like weeks? Yeah, I'll be.

486
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: It just creates problems and it's very weird. I want

487
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: to read another quote from Oppenheimer. Well, he had taught

488
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: the Dimsees and others in his Uva circle. He's going

489
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: to Uva at this point how to handle his bird.

490
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: He had upset the horse loving Dempsey when he began

491
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: riding with the falcon on his arm, which upset the

492
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: horse and made it crazy, like he just doesn't give

493
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: a shit about how his actions affect anyone around him.

494
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, which is also like it's it's not weird again,

495
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 2: it's like this, Yeah, I'm sorry, fucked up kid in

496
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 2: his fuck up family. But it seemed like at least

497
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: a beginning, he'd like had an affinity for animals, like

498
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: maybe he was going to transfer any like empathy or

499
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 2: care or consideration he would have he should have for

500
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 2: like human beings and just be like, oh, I care

501
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 2: about animals. But it doesn't seem like he does that either,

502
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: Like except for his hawk. I guess it's like him

503
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 2: and his hawk against the world a little bit.

504
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: It's just me and my hawk. That's all that. That's

505
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: all I got. Gotta scare horses and cops with it.

506
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 2: Gotta have something. It's like again, it's like, yeah, it's

507
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: you know, he's got hobbies and companions. Okay, describe the

508
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: hobbies and companions.

509
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, are they healthy hobbies and companions for him to have?

510
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: Maybe potentially, potentially being a hot guy could be a

511
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: healthy hobby, but Bobby has now Bobby always lets it

512
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: go well past the point where it would be healthy.

513
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: He's putting roadkill in his friend's refrigerators. That's the line.

514
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: That's a lot in Bobby. So after he concludes his

515
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: time at law school and he goes to UVA, Bobby

516
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: gets a job as an assistant District Attorney in Manhattan.

517
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: And again that's only a Kennedy could make that jump

518
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: with the record.

519
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 2: That he's gotten, right, Yeah, he wants to do that.

520
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: And of course his drug use only escalates at the

521
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: point at which he is the assistant DA of Manhattan,

522
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: and he continues pushing drugs on his brother as part

523
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,959
Speaker 1: kind of a hobby, Like getting his brother to do

524
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: drugs is sort of like one of his pastimes, right,

525
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: And I'm going to quote from a Vanity Fair article here.

526
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: David Horowitz remembers Bobby being so cavalier that he cut

527
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: lines of cocaine for his brother Michael Kennedy and allowed

528
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: him to snort a line in front of the rider.

529
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: Only then did he introduce Horowitz as a reporter. Horowitz

530
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: also recalls that Kennedy asked him for a ride to

531
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: Harlem to score trucks. Shits like you're in front of

532
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: a reporter, man, you and your brother, you don't think

533
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: any of this is going to get reported on that

534
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: you guys are doing cocaine.

535
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 2: I mean it seems like maybe he thought it was funny, right.

536
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the brother.

537
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 2: This is the brother he completely fucked with on acid.

538
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: I think this is a different brother.

539
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 2: This is a different brother. Okay.

540
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of Kennedy brothers. It's hard for

541
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: me to keep track from sometimes. Yeah, but this is

542
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: a different brother. So Bobby takes the bar exam and

543
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: fails it in nineteen eighty three and he has to

544
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: he resigns from office not long after that. He is

545
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: clearly in a downward spiral at this point, and shortly

546
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: after failing the bars, he's taking a flight, you know,

547
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: he's always flying, jetting around everywhere. Did he ever pass

548
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: the bar eventually? Yeah, he gets he gets barred. He

549
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: gets barred. Uh not not on xanax. That might have

550
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: helped him out. But he passes the bar because.

551
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 4: It's a very very very very difficult test.

552
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, Sophie. Uh, it seems like he

553
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: passed it eventually. Uh So maybe it's not that sick,

554
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: So maybe it's not that hard.

555
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: It's not that hard pass the bar.

556
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: Could pass the bar. That's that's what kills it. Puffeting

557
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: Bobby through the bar exam of course, son of a bitch,

558
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: used up all his energy. Oh man, So he's he's

559
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: on one of his many flights. I think he's heading

560
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: to North Dakota for some goddamn reason. And as is usual, Yeah,

561
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: he's doing a lot of drugs and.

562
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: He got word like there's a pile of rotting meat there.

563
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: They call it the corpse capital of America.

564
00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: They do, they do.

565
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, So he's he's gets sick, dope sick. He's like,

566
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: I think, well, not dope sick. That's when you don't

567
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: have heroin. He gets sick because he does too much

568
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: heroin in the bathroom of a plane that has stopped

569
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: in Rapid City. That because he's sick. I think he's odeed.

570
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,719
Speaker 2: Like that's indeed, Yeah, that's what getting sick from too

571
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: much heroin is, right.

572
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he basically o d's in the bathroom

573
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: of this plane and they have to divert the flight

574
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: to Rapid City because Kennedy is now on.

575
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: The Virgin of death and another one, folks, oh ship

576
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: another Kennedy's going down.

577
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: It's bad, bad, luck to be a Kennedy on a plane.

578
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: Such bad luck any way, Like there's no there's no

579
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 2: wrong end to that sentence.

580
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: No, no, you're right there. So they have to divert

581
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: the flight, and they as they're treating him, they search

582
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: him and they find heroin on him. Right, so he

583
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: gets arrested in charge. He has, you know, been caught

584
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: in possession of heroin on a fucking flight. Bobby gets

585
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: ultimately sentenced to just two years of probation and community service.

586
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: Because again Kennedy, and this is the start of him

587
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: seeking treatment for his drug issues. He does actually get

588
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: better on that at this point. You know, he is

589
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: able to like get sober and stay that way not

590
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: long after this. Yeah, so that's good. That's good.

591
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 2: Sober like from heroin or is like sober.

592
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: I think he's just sober. I don't know, maybe he

593
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: has some champagne now and again, but I think he's

594
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: basically yeah, he seems like he does. That's that's at

595
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: least what the reporting you will read on this says,

596
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: I have no reason to doubt the matter. We will

597
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: talk about what he I think he replaces due place.

598
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 2: That's always the question.

599
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's your place to come up. But you know,

600
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: the internet's not around yet. So yeah, So the time

601
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: and access that Bobby and Michael Kennedy had given David

602
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: Horowitz and his author Collier would create another calamity for

603
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: Bobby The next year, in nineteen eighty four, an excerpt

604
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: from the book The Kennedys was published in Playboy as

605
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: part of a pr blitz. Michael, who had struggled the

606
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: most personally as a result of the drug addictions that

607
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: he had accumulated with Bobby, became the black sheep of

608
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: the Kennedy family overnight because he broke amerta right, like,

609
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: he's you're not supposed to talk about this shit with outsiders,

610
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: and he had talked about how fucked up the family

611
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: was to these outside reporters. So they exile Michael basically, right.

612
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not allowed to we know, we see, Yeah,

613
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: what's going on? Like you can't Yeah, you can't admit

614
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: that you know that you're fucked up?

615
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: How dare you talk about it? Yeah? I'm going to

616
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: quote from an article in Vanity Fair. Here. The time

617
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: and access that Bobby and David Kennedy had given David

618
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: Horowitz and his co author Collier would create another calamity

619
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: for Bobby the next year. In nineteen eighty four, an

620
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: excerpt from the book The Kennedys was published in Playboy.

621
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: As a result of a pr blitz, David, who had

622
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: struggled the most personally as a result of the drug

623
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: addictions he'd accumulated with Bobby, became the black sheep of

624
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: the Kennedy family. Over at night. He has given away

625
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: all of these secrets that you're not supposed to tell

626
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: outsiders about the family. You're not supposed to let them

627
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: in to the inside Kennedy stuff, right, you know, we

628
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: know what's going on here, but you don't tell other people.

629
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: So David has broken Omerta here. And I'm going to

630
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: quote again from Vanity Fair to talk about what happens next.

631
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: The family turned on David Kennedy for airing the family's

632
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: addiction secrets, and he stayed in a separate hotel during

633
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: a family gathering in Palm Beach, Bobby, David had told

634
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: the books authors was our last illusion. The next day,

635
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: David died of an overdose at age twenty eighth. So

636
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: we're down another Kennedy.

637
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, they just can't got your break other than

638
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 2: being like naturally wealthy and powerful. They caught that break,

639
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: caught that break.

640
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: It turns out there are other breaks that you need

641
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: to catch to be a happy person.

642
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 2: And it turns out those that kind of yes, yes,

643
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: that's very sad.

644
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a real bummer, and this is not you know,

645
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: it's not a miss to look at what happens to

646
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: him as another chapter in the long history of the

647
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: Kennedy curse. But that curse seemed to skip Bobby over,

648
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: and the tragic death of David helped to catalyze the

649
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 1: need for him to commit to sobriety. So he starts

650
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 1: attending AA meetings and within a few years he's found

651
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 1: a cause to throw himself and the weight of his

652
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 1: Kennedy name behind, an environmental charity called river Keeper. Now

653
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: Bobby gets a lot of praise for his involvement with

654
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: river Keeper. This is legitimately some of the best stuff

655
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: he does in his life. I should note at the

656
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: top of this that he gets involved with river Keeper

657
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: in the first place because he has fifteen hundred hours

658
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: of community service. So it's you wouldn't say that he

659
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: just like found this because he was looking for meaning

660
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: in his life. He is legally required to.

661
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 2: He was doing something for something to fill that.

662
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, Courton Manda. Now look that doesn't mean he didn't

663
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: do good things there, but it's just useful context.

664
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you this. The time he spent

665
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 2: with them, was it the mandated the amount of time,

666
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 2: and that was it.

667
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: He does keep it. He just keep working with me.

668
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: He should get He doesn't get no credit for what

669
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: he does with this this organization.

670
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 2: It was more like, Okay, the impetus to do this

671
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 2: was this, and yeah, you'll go to present how you

672
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 2: find it's how he found the place. But he liked

673
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 2: it and joined it and kept doing himself.

674
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now you know he's working as

675
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: an environmental lawyer now and he's also kind of the

676
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: figurehead of the organization. And in that in that role,

677
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: Bobby attacks corporate polluters and he's he's actually very successful

678
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: in helping to exact a real cost from big, big

679
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: business bad actors. In this capacity, he plays a major

680
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 1: role in forcing GM, forcing GM to pay one point

681
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: seven billion dollars to clean up pollution their factories had

682
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: washed into the Hudson River. And that's that's a real

683
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: penalty right there, and you know you're actually, yeah, a

684
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,919
Speaker 1: slap on the wrist. You notice a missing one point

685
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: seven billion in the ballance sheet.

686
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bee makes a big difference. Usually it's God,

687
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 2: it's usually so much less than that.

688
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: It's usually way less than that. Usually it's like the amount.

689
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: They're like, well, we can do this because we're just

690
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 2: gonna have to pay this, and that's fine, We're still

691
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: gonna make Yeah.

692
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: Yes, now you're doing some damage at that point. Bobby

693
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 1: and his partner at River Keeper also succeeded in going

694
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: after Exxon, and in his speeches and writing around this time,

695
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: Bobby fits pretty seamlessly into the narrative of a left

696
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: leaning environmental crusader going after conservative polluters. Right he is.

697
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: He is the lefty little guy, you know, standing up

698
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: and fighting for the environment against the bad dudes from Ferngully. Right,

699
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: Like that's that's that's where he slots in at this point. Right.

700
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: In a book Bobby co authored, he complains about right

701
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: wing stereotypes about environmental elitism and the monopolization of resources

702
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: for cat by special interests. Al Gore writes the forward

703
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: of his book, so you can see him pretty firmly

704
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: on like the liberal lefty side, you might even say,

705
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: like progressive left right side of the podicle equation here, right.

706
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that aggressive against corporations for these kinds of things. Yeah, yeah, it's.

707
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird how we got from there to hear

708
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: where we are today, But this is where he is

709
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 1: at the time.

710
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that trajectually makes sense to me still, but

711
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 2: you know.

712
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 1: It does, it does. He's actually an important role part

713
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: of that whole national trajectory changing for a lot of people.

714
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: As the nineties gave way to the two thousands, he

715
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: was one of the most prominent dims on the East

716
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: Coast and widely seen as a potential candidate for higher office.

717
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: Bobby like flirted with the idea of running for election,

718
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: but he never quite managed to make anything happen. And

719
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: you get writing from his like in one of the

720
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 1: books I read about him from twenty fifteen, you hear

721
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: from like people who care about Bobby. Thank god he

722
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: didn't get into politics, like we were really worried he

723
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: was going to. And I'm just so glad he's never

724
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: run for president, you know.

725
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's if you can give advice to any Kennedy.

726
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: It would be, don't run for president.

727
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: Don't get into politics, don't get into politics, stay off planes.

728
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, stay plans politics and a new rule I would

729
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 2: say for Kennedy's, uh, stay clear of rancid meat.

730
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: Avoid meat. Yeah, probably heroin too.

731
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 2: Probably heroin too. Yeah, just general, just general advice that

732
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 2: weirdly applies also to specifically the Kennedy's. Yeah. But that's good.

733
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 2: I mean, it's good to find your place in some

734
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: you know, a position where like you feel like you're

735
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: doing something and a difference and you have meaning, but

736
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 2: you're not necessarily in politics and that in that way,

737
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: so good for him.

738
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 1: For a while, while Bobby seemed to be a model

739
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: for recovery and a human repost against the notion that

740
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,720
Speaker 1: the Kennedys were doomed, the family curse continued. His cousin

741
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: William Kennedy Smith, had been tried for but acquitted of rape.

742
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: In the early nineteen nineties, His other brother Michael was

743
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: revealed to be sleeping with an underage person working as

744
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: his babysitter, and then Michael died in a skiing accident

745
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: and aspen in nineteen ninety seven. His older brother Joseph's

746
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: ex wife wrote a tell all memoir about him that

747
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: scuttled his bid for the governor's chair in Massachusetts. And

748
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: then in nineteen ninety nine, John F. Kennedy Junior, believed

749
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: by many to be the future president, crashed his plane

750
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: into the ocean near Martha's vineyard. The nineties are rough

751
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: for the Kennedys. You know, the sixties were bad.

752
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 2: Jesus, some of those I yeah, just didn't You don't

753
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 2: even absorb them all, you know, you're like, oh, yeah,

754
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 2: Like jfk. Junior is like the big one that you

755
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 2: think of when you think of the nineties and Kennedys.

756
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 2: But like, damn, that's so much. Yeah, I assume we

757
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: want to talk about babysitters a little bit later.

758
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: We are going to talk about babysitters. But you can

759
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,439
Speaker 1: see how by like two thousand you could you could

760
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: think Bobby's the one the curse skipped over, right, Like

761
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: he's doing a lot, like compared to the rest of

762
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: his family. Yeah, he had that little brush with heroin,

763
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 1: but he got over it. Well, yeah, he's really doing great.

764
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 1: He's over in the seventies. Yeah, yeah, he's been over

765
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: it for a while. He's doing something that matters in

766
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: the world. You know, he's doing great. Yeah, he is

767
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: not doing great, that is all. There's more going on

768
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: under the surface than you would want to say, and

769
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: we'll get back to that. But first, Cody, you know,

770
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 1: it also has more going on than you'd guess.

771
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 2: Wow, my guess is either products and services or the

772
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 2: stuff that I do online.

773
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, both of those things. Products and Cody's here,

774
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 1: they are. We're back. So we talked a little earlier

775
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: about Martha Moxley, who was bludgeon to death with a

776
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: golf club by somebody in nineteen seventy five. Michael Skakel,

777
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: a Kennedy cousin, was blamed because they found one of

778
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: his family's golf clubs by the scene and he had

779
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 1: been around there. Now, the evidence linking him to this

780
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: crime isn't great, right, Like I think it's it's there's

781
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: enough there that I think it's likely he did it,

782
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: but it's not in court terms, especially when you have

783
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: Kennedy money, it's not perfect. Right. He is, however, eventually

784
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: brought to trial. It takes a long time. He's brought

785
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: to trial and found guilty in two thousand and two.

786
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say it takes a long time, and he

787
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 2: goes on to serve eleven years of a twenty year sentence.

788
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 1: Now, one of the major pieces of evidence in favor

789
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: of conviction was that Skagell had attended the Alan School,

790
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: subject of a recent of a bTB episode. This is

791
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: one of those like troubled teen boarding schools where you

792
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,720
Speaker 1: send your kids to be hideously abused.

793
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yep, yeah, yeah, that's the description of those schools.

794
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, we did two episodes on the Elan schools. Michael

795
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: Is said people who went to school with him were like,

796
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: he admitted to the murder during group. We would have

797
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 1: these group sessions where we talk about the bad stuff

798
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: we did. And for most because it's like I smoked pot,

799
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: you know, in my parents' golf house or whatever, and

800
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: with him, he's like, yeah, I beat a lady to

801
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: death with a golf club. It's not funny. It's just

802
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 1: the Kennedy's are so much extra than everyone else.

803
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, like there's a uh, there's a dark laugh

804
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 2: that you can you can Jesus Crest like what yeah,

805
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 2: but like what a horrific It's it's like a it's

806
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 2: off place to be like.

807
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, God, yeah, so that all comes out. He gets

808
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: convicted in two thousand and two, and as soon as

809
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: he gets convicted, r FK Junior, who is again at

810
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: this point looks like the hero at Kennedy, bounds onto

811
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: the scene trying to defend his cousin by attacking the

812
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 1: witnesses in a very Trumpian fashion and also in a

813
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,720
Speaker 1: fashion that's going to become increasingly associated with Bobby Kennedy Junior.

814
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 1: He embraces a conspiracy theory.

815
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 2: Just like imagine RFK outside like the houses of the witnesses,

816
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 2: with like his hawk in the darkness, just like you

817
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 2: see the silhouette, and these start to smell like is

818
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 2: that ranso and meat smell.

819
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: Of hundreds of caws?

820
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 2: Is that rant? And the answer is yes, yes, sorry.

821
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: So he in what's gonna increasingly become a thing for him.

822
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: He embraces a conspiracy theory. And in this specific conspiracy theory,

823
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 1: it's that Martha had been murdered not by his cousin,

824
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: but by a group of black men. And I'm going

825
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: to quote from the New York Times in two thousand

826
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: and three, Getano Bryant, a former classmate of mister Skygull

827
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: and a cousin of the basketball star Kobe Bryant, came

828
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: forward with information that he and the two teenagers had

829
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: been in the exclusive Bell Haven section of Greenwich on

830
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: October thirtieth, nineteen seventy five, the night of the murder.

831
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: Mister Bryant said that he had left early, but the

832
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: other two stayed behind and told him they want to

833
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: attack a girl man style. Both men have denied any involvement,

834
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 1: and prosecutors have called accusations against them baseless. I am

835
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: dead certain they did it, mister Kennedy said in an

836
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: interview in Bedford. But people should read up the facts

837
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: and meet and make up their own mind. So, yeah,

838
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant's family gets into the gets in the case.

839
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 4: I should note that this guy claims to be Kobe

840
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 4: Bryant's cousin.

841
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: Oh right, not really? Oh yeah's fake cousin.

842
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 3: Yeah I should, I should, because I was like, wait

843
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 3: a second, I think this might be that guy. Sure,

844
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 3: he claims to be the cousin. I don't know if

845
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 3: you guy. So there's as asterisk no confirmation.

846
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: He claims he was with these guys who said basically

847
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: said we're going to brutally murder a white woman.

848
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 2: Right, Like, what are you doing, Bobby? What is this?

849
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 5: Like?

850
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: Yeah? Like what the fuck?

851
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 2: When Like when Bobby says, like, look at the facts,

852
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 2: what is he referring to? Like what just like the

853
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 2: what are the facts that he's referring to? Just that

854
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 2: they were in town?

855
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, what what counts as the facts in this case?

856
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: So was it their golf club?

857
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 6: Bobby, golf club's even more than your cousin.

858
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 2: Now caveman style, what if he says that talks like

859
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 2: that fucking freak.

860
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, Kennedy writes to defend his cousin. He gets to

861
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 1: because he's a Kennedy. He gets to write an article

862
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: for The Atlantic. If you want to know how reliable

863
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: the Atlantic can be, And it's it's a crazy long

864
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: article like he writes, basically a goddamn novella for the

865
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: fucking Atlantic, in which he throws out baseless allegations to

866
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: defend his blood at the expense of victims and their families.

867
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 1: To continue from The New York Times. In addition to

868
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 1: implicating the two teenagers in the murder, mister Kennedy suggests

869
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 1: involvement by others. They include the Scaygow family's former tutor,

870
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: Kenneth w Lyttleton, who was granted immunity in exchange for

871
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: testimony and had long been a suspect, and Missus Moxley's

872
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: older brother, John Moxley, now fifty seven, who's account of

873
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: his whereabouts the night of the murder varied considerably over

874
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: the years, mister Kennedy wrote. In separate phone interviews this week,

875
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 1: Dorotha Moxley, Missus Moxley's eighty four year old mother, said

876
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 1: the book had left her at a loss for words,

877
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: adding that she had never seen the truth so twisted

878
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: and manipulated in my entire life. She added that she

879
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,240
Speaker 1: still believed that mister Skagel was the one who swung

880
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: the club. So yeah, he's reopened to wound for this lady,

881
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: you could say.

882
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, very publicly and aggressively. Is is the implication that

883
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:41,919
Speaker 2: like these guys did the murder and then like these

884
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: other people he's talking about covered it up. I think

885
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 2: the implication is it like they did it, like he

886
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 2: seems to be accusing like a bunch of different unrelated

887
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 2: people of this.

888
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, of like so like whatever theory wanting to hide it,

889
00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't understand why what the theory would be?

890
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, right, Like it's it's something happens a lot

891
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 2: with this stuff. We talked alluded briefly to the uh

892
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 2: Trump assassination attempt, but like stuff like that where there

893
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 2: are always these like people jumping to conclusions of like, oh,

894
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 2: it's this conspiracy this or this this. I'm always like,

895
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 2: but what is what is the theory that you're saying,

896
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 2: like you're pointing to like this person and this person

897
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 2: in this like event, but like, what do you think happened?

898
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,439
Speaker 1: That's that That's always what you should ask yourself with conspiracies,

899
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: and it doesn't always like it's part of why I

900
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 1: think some conspiracy theories it's not unreasonable to buy into

901
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: to a degree. Right, Is there a logical line you

902
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: could draw on why someone would want JFK dead? Why

903
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: the CIA would have wanted to make sure that's a

904
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: you can you have a theory there with a motivation?

905
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 2: Right?

906
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: Is there a logical reason why people would have wanted

907
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein murdered? Yes, you don't have to like, you

908
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: don't have to explain, right.

909
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Yeah, And those lots those are lines are

910
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 2: very clear, but you know, like a like see people

911
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 2: say like they tried to kill Trump? Who's they? Who

912
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 2: are you talking about? Like what do you mean why

913
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 2: would they do it this way?

914
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: If it's from this but like Trump and he didn't

915
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: even benefit from.

916
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: It, like right, and like yeah, it's like just so

917
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 2: many things like that where I'm like, but what do

918
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: you mean?

919
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: Are you saying Trump had a man shoot past his ear?

920
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: Did he blade himself like a wrestler?

921
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 2: Did they want to spook him? Like they got this

922
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 2: kid who sucks at shooting, and like like what do

923
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 2: you what is your what do you think happened?

924
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, like what do you think happened? That is likelier

925
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: than a twenty year old with an ar fifteen did

926
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: something crazy?

927
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 2: Like yeah, Like I just don't know what they're saying happened.

928
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 2: And this is another example of that where it's like

929
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: you're just saying like throwing all the stuff out, but

930
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 2: like if you look at all the pieces, who's.

931
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,359
Speaker 1: Involved fits, they don't fit. There's nothing that makes this

932
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: fit together. I don't know why, right, Like yeah, now,

933
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: what I will say makes sense in this case is

934
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: Bobby's obsession with being Michael, because Michael is one of

935
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: the members of the family who's stuck by him after

936
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: he got busted for drugs and helped him get sober.

937
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: And I get that that's painful, Bobby, but your cousin

938
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: probably murdered a young woman, and by backing him and

939
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: attacking the people trying to get him keep him in prison,

940
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: Bobby has laid a clear line against the family of

941
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: a victim. Yeah, and it's interesting Vanity fair Wrights quote.

942
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 1: Bobby was the only Kennedy to defend Scackle, showing up

943
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: twice to the Connecticut courtroom. Theories at a bound about

944
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: why Kennedy felt compelled to defend Scackle, including speculation that

945
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,760
Speaker 1: Scackle was blackmailing him. According to one of Kennedy's diaries

946
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,720
Speaker 1: obtained by The New York Post, he thought his cousin

947
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 1: was delusional and paranoid, even as he publicly maintained that

948
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: Scackle was innocent of the murder. So maybe Bobby is

949
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,760
Speaker 1: just doing this for his own skin. Maybe there's some darkness,

950
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: and we have an idea of what that darkness might be.

951
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,839
Speaker 1: As Bobby starts to get accused by more women of

952
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: sexual harassment, made his cousin knew something about him, and

953
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: it's like, look, you use your juice, your your pr

954
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: juice to try and get me out of this, or

955
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 1: I will ruin your life that you've carefully built back

956
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 1: up right, I'll tell people the real Bobby.

957
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like yeah, I mean there's already like all the

958
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 2: stuff we do know is fucked up.

959
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: It's yeah, there's a lot that as it is.

960
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he's like alluded many times to like I've

961
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 2: got like millions of.

962
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: Skeletons, skeletons in my closet and like, you know, I

963
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: got more skeletons than that rotting corpse pit.

964
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And I believe me. I got at I know, skeletons.

965
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 2: If you need you need some? Do you need some?

966
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 2: Sorry side question, but do you need some rotting meat?

967
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 2: Because I have some? Do you want?

968
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: Who trunks full of it?

969
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 2: Like it's funny you bring up rotting meat, because I've

970
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 2: got a lot of it for you. I just can't

971
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:54,959
Speaker 2: give it away. I can't.

972
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: There's no room in the fridge room in.

973
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 2: My friend fridges.

974
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: Oh Kennedy money and Bobby's tireless legal advocacy eventually did

975
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: pay dividends in twenty thirteen, after about a decade behind bars,

976
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: his conviction was overturned on technical grounds. In twenty eighteen,

977
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: the Connecticut Supreme Court confirmed that he had received insufficient

978
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 1: legal representation. A new trial was ordered, but the prosecution

979
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: chose to cut bait and he was not put back

980
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 1: in or charged again. So I don't know where you

981
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: want to apportion that blame wise, because I think there's

982
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: a chance he really believed that he was freeing an

983
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 1: innocent man. But I don't know, maybe not probably in

984
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: the evil column probably, Yeah.

985
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 2: No, No, I know, it's weird. I mean it's weird

986
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 2: how aggressive he was about it, and his again, like

987
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 2: his defense is weird, like his defense and like his

988
00:51:55,160 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 2: explanation of the alternative is like odd. So I don't know.

989
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we'll see. Well, I don't know. We won't see.

990
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll never know the answer.

991
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 2: We won't see.

992
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 1: The YaST thing we're going to talk about is a

993
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: clearer mark in the bad guy column. I'll say that.

994
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 1: In late nineteen ninety eight, the Kennedy's hired day babysitter,

995
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: twenty three year old Eliza Cooney. She was interested in

996
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: working as an environmental activist, and basically the idea is

997
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: this will be part of your internship effectively, like I

998
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: will teach you can shadow me, you can like learn

999
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 1: how to do what I do as this powerful and

1000
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,879
Speaker 1: beloved environmental lawyer. But I need you to watch my kids, right,

1001
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: you know, not a bad trade as these things go.

1002
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: But unfortunately Bobby doesn't really have any plan to give

1003
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: her to mentor her, right, That's how he frames this,

1004
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:48,399
Speaker 1: like I need someone to watch my kids and I'll

1005
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: mentor you.

1006
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 2: That's not what I mean, that's what you assume. Like

1007
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 2: that's not I think, you know, Okay, I get to

1008
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 2: watch the Kennedy's kids whatever, But like that's not like

1009
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 2: a legit deal or situation or like there's not like

1010
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 2: that's already a shady yeah but yes thing to yes,

1011
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 2: move over, Like by the way, what like that's weird.

1012
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. So basically she comes over there having a meeting

1013
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: with another person at Riverkeeper, and like as they're sitting

1014
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 1: around the table talking business, she feels Kennedy's hand moving

1015
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: up and down her leg under the table, and she

1016
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 1: you know, one of the she talks because she has

1017
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: recently come out to that journalist at Vanity Fair, and

1018
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 1: she sends him like a copy of her diary with

1019
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 1: an entry date in November seventh, nineteen ninety eight, where

1020
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: she writes, from everything everybody says about the Kennedy's and

1021
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: their babysitters, they had me worried, like I have to

1022
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 1: watch out, be careful. And the other night in the

1023
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,280
Speaker 1: kitchen with Murray, who's one of the other river keepers,

1024
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 1: I could have sworn he was touching my leg in hand.

1025
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: It seems like he thought I was somebody else or

1026
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: wasn't paying attention, Like he would come to every once

1027
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: in a while and snap out of it, or I

1028
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: would move away. It was like he was on something

1029
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 1: or really tired, or was missing Mary, or was testing me. Now,

1030
00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: Cooney hopes in vain at first that this is some

1031
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: bit right. He's just exhausted. He just kind of reached

1032
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: for me. He wasn't really thinking it through. But just

1033
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: a week later she walked in to see her boss

1034
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: standing in her bedroom reading her diary, which was open

1035
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: next to the bed and filled with notes on her

1036
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:17,359
Speaker 1: romantic life with her boyfriend. The harassment continued after this,

1037
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 1: and she is shocked at one point when a shirtless

1038
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,479
Speaker 1: forty five year old Bobby Kennedy asks him to rub

1039
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 1: lotion on his back. She thinks, isn't you know Mary,

1040
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 1: your wife home, doesn't she do this for you? But

1041
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: she agrees She like rubs him down, even though she

1042
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 1: feels like it's inappropriate, because what else is she going

1043
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: to do. She's alone with the man, and she stops

1044
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 1: writing about her experiences after this point because she knows

1045
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: that he's coming in and reading her diary. Really yeah, yeah, yeah,

1046
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: but she says, they continue. I'm gonna quote from Vanity

1047
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: Fair here. A few months later, Cooney says she was

1048
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,320
Speaker 1: rifling through the kitchen pantry for lunch after a yoga class,

1049
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: still in her sports bra and leggings, when Kennedy came

1050
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 1: up behind her, blocked her inside the room, again, groping her,

1051
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: putting his hands on her hips and sliding them up

1052
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: along her rib cage and breasts. My back was to

1053
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 1: the door of the pantry and he came up behind me,

1054
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: she says, describing the alleged sexual assault. I was frozen, shocked,

1055
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 1: and yeah, that's bad. So that's Bobby Kennedy Part three.

1056
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 1: Sorry on such a bleak note, disgusting.

1057
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:27,399
Speaker 2: Well that's so gross. You'll get more many reasons it's

1058
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 2: also like, not the one time, it's not the one

1059
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 2: person that you would have.

1060
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,240
Speaker 1: His response makes clear.

1061
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. That's gross.

1062
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,760
Speaker 4: What a gross motherfucker.

1063
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 1: You know what's not gross? You're pluggables.

1064
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 2: Oh good, So, speaking of nothing we just talked about. Uh, Hi,

1065
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 2: find me offline. I host a show called some More News.

1066
00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 2: You can watch on YouTube and listen to it as

1067
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 2: a podcast. We've got a podcast called even More News.

1068
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 2: My band is called the Hot Shapes. You can find

1069
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 2: us on SoundCloud or buy our album Laverne on bandcamp.

1070
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 2: I'm on websites as doctor mister Cody X.

1071
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna give it to you a bad time.

1072
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, Robert, I'd like to plug Cools of Media's newest podcast.

1073
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: We have a podcast.

1074
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 5: I mean you're currently on one, but yes, we have

1075
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,879
Speaker 5: many podcasts, but we have a brand new one that

1076
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 5: has the trailer out right now, and it's called Weird

1077
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 5: Little Guys and it's hosted by Molly Conger.

1078
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,320
Speaker 4: Do you want to tell the people about it, Robert?

1079
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 1: Uh. Yeah. Basically Molly is the best researcher I know,

1080
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: and she obsessively trawls the internet court records. Uh, for

1081
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 1: very weird little guys. These are. These are like little

1082
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: strange Nazi freaks, businessmen, running cons, all sorts of like

1083
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: tiny evil people who you're not going to hear about

1084
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 1: from anybody else. Like what they do mostly stays locked

1085
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: into like local small claims cases or weird little corners

1086
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: of the internet. But these are some of the some

1087
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 1: of the craziest people in stories that you'll ever hear about.

1088
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: So check out Weird Little Guys.

1089
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 4: Taylor trailers out now.

1090
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 5: Sounds amazing, zerop one on August eighth.

1091
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 2: August eighth, I was, I was like, uh, it sounds

1092
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 2: like basically like d like f tier local Jacob Walls.

1093
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, these are like the weird little guys that.

1094
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 2: Like they just don't get that sort of national Most of.

1095
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 4: Them I've never heard of, but they're like trying to

1096
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 4: ruin our lives.

1097
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a great show that I haven't listened to

1098
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 2: yet that I love already. The Best pays the Best

1099
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 2: and we'll be back.

1100
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 4: With part four so soon, Robert any any final thoughts?

1101
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: Uh No, I think that's it.

1102
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 4: Well bye.

1103
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 5: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1104
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 4: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia

1105
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 4: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1106
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.