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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I'll

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Speaker 1: be your host today Emily Simpson and Shane Also very

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Speaker 1: exciting news. We have done so well and you guys

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Speaker 1: have enjoyed Legally Brunette so much that we are now

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Speaker 1: moving to our own feed so you'll be able to

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Speaker 1: find us easier. I know a lot of you got

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Speaker 1: confused because you were like, it goes to two teas.

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Speaker 1: Now when you search legally Brunette, it will go to

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Speaker 1: our own feed and we will be bringing you episodes weekly.

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Speaker 1: But for today, we are going to go into the

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Speaker 1: case of the Catfish mom Kendra Lacari. Originally we weren't

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Speaker 1: even gonna we were going to talk about a different case,

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Speaker 1: but this has become so huge everybody's talking about it.

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Speaker 1: It's a Netflix series that's called Unknown Number the High

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Speaker 1: School Catfish. So let's just go through. Let's just first

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Speaker 1: do like a brief overview of kind of what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about. If you have not watched it yet, I

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Speaker 1: suggest that you do. Not only is it shocking and

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Speaker 1: different than anything you've probably ever heard before, but it's

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Speaker 1: actually entertaining and has a lot of interviews of all

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Speaker 1: the people involved in it. So this is a case

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Speaker 1: that started in twenty twenty two with two Michigan teenagers,

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Speaker 1: Lauren Lacari and Owen McKinney, and they began receiving anonymous

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Speaker 1: text messages from an unknown number. Over time, the communications

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Speaker 1: escalated into persistent harassment, with dozens of messages arriving daily

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Speaker 1: that included cruel insults, explicit remarks and when I say explicit,

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Speaker 1: like grossly explicit, like sexually explicit, and also threats. Most

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Speaker 1: text messages focused on Lauren and Owen's relationship, targeting Lauren's

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Speaker 1: insecurities and eventually forcing them to break up. But the

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Speaker 1: harassment did not stop there. The cyber bully persisted with

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Speaker 1: the text messages and eventually told Lauren to take her

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Speaker 1: own life. And that wasn't just a one time thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was multiple times of like die bitch,

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Speaker 1: and side say how to kill yourself, just to kill yourself,

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Speaker 1: just to kill yourself. The behavior caused significant distress for

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Speaker 1: the teens and drew the attention of parent, school officials,

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Speaker 1: and local police. As the harassment continued, outside agencies were

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Speaker 1: brought into assist. After almost an entire year of these

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Speaker 1: relentless messages, and I believe at one point they were

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Speaker 1: getting up to fifty messages a day. The FBI investigators

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Speaker 1: trace the messages back to none other than Lauren Lacari's mother,

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Speaker 1: Kendra Lacari. All right, let's just talk about where this

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Speaker 1: took place, because I think it's important to kind of

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Speaker 1: get a background of this small town. Everybody knows everybody,

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Speaker 1: which is where this took place. So the dynamic of

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Speaker 1: what happens happens in this small town called Beal City, Michigan.

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Speaker 1: And when they describe bal City, it literally has like

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Speaker 1: two bars and one stoplight, and it's a dairy town,

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Speaker 1: lots of flat fields. It reminds me. Look, I grew

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Speaker 1: up in Ohio, so when they're describing beal City, Michigan,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I relate.

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Speaker 2: It's basically like these are your people, these.

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Speaker 1: Are my people. It's like Middletown, Ohio. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: went to a very small high school. There were only

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Speaker 1: ninety nine people in my graduating class.

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Speaker 2: So then clearly you got validatorian.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, which is sad I should have but no, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So Beal City is a farming community with two pubs

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Speaker 1: and one flashing intersection. They have one school that is

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Speaker 1: all kindergarten through twelfth with about fifty kids per grade.

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Speaker 1: The McKinneys. This is Owen McKinney. His family was an

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Speaker 1: established family in that area, while Kindred grew up about

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Speaker 1: a two hour drive away in the suburb or excerbs.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what excerbs are. Is that the opposite

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Speaker 1: of suburb and excurb?

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Speaker 2: I guess, so I can look it up if that's

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Speaker 2: what you're asking.

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Speaker 1: It's an exurb of Detroit. Locals can see that Beal

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Speaker 1: City can be a tough place for transplants, that anyone

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Speaker 1: who didn't go to the school or doesn't have one

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Speaker 1: of the known last names will always be considered not

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Speaker 1: from around here. And although Sean Lacari, who is Kendra's husband,

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Speaker 1: was from Beale, he wasn't considered to be part of

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Speaker 1: the end crowd within this small town community. So Kindra

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Speaker 1: was not. She did not grow up in Beale's city.

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Speaker 1: She grew up two hours outside of it, So I

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Speaker 1: guess she never was like considered an insider within this

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Speaker 1: small town where there's non last names, Like she.

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Speaker 2: Was a foreigner of the town. Kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: So let's just get through a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: timeline of events. Let's just break this down.

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Speaker 2: Ask question, are you man? I might go ahead, what

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Speaker 2: you say, high school? But wait, it's it ninth grade,

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Speaker 2: tenth grade, twelfth grade. I think actually it's are they

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Speaker 2: of driving age?

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Speaker 1: No? No, Actually when the text messages, when the harassing

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Speaker 1: text messages first start. So there's actually two rounds of

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Speaker 1: text messages. There's some text messages that come through from

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Speaker 1: an anonymous person when they're in the seventh grade and

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Speaker 1: they're dating, you know, whether how you date in the

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Speaker 1: seventh grade or whatever.

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Speaker 2: They're like, you sit in the same lunch table, like.

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Speaker 1: Right, they're like boyfriend and girlfriend.

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Speaker 2: You know, she's very into same hanging out at the

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Speaker 2: stop light.

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Speaker 1: Right, they hang out at the stoplight and the dairy fields.

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Speaker 1: She's very into sports, he's into sports. They seem to

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Speaker 1: have that connection. They're in the seventh grade, and I

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Speaker 1: think the first round of text messages that come from

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Speaker 1: some anonymous source are mean, but they're not explicit, and

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Speaker 1: it's more of like, haha, you didn't get invited to

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Speaker 1: this Halloween party. It's like poking, yeah, and like Owen

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Speaker 1: doesn't really like you and he doesn't want to go

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Speaker 1: with you, and blah blah blah.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like junior high text messages as opposed to

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Speaker 2: an adult exactly.

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Speaker 1: But if you look at the language and the way

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Speaker 1: that the words are spelled in that first round of

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Speaker 1: text messages, it doesn't use slang. Everything's spelled correctly, it

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Speaker 1: has punctuation. It's very different than when the second round

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Speaker 1: of text harassing text messages start. So if you really

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Speaker 1: want to analyze it and look.

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Speaker 2: Deep into it, to me, oh, what does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Well, to me, it just means that like when she

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Speaker 1: first she claimed so, the mother claims that she didn't

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Speaker 1: send the first round to text messages, that she only

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Speaker 1: got the idea from when these first harassing messages occur.

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Speaker 2: So other people were asking my daughter, and I decided

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Speaker 2: to join them. Yeah, I didn't come up with the

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Speaker 2: idea of myself, right.

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Speaker 1: But I mean my educated guests would be she clearly

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Speaker 1: sent the messages in the first place, and I think

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Speaker 1: she sent them as a mother, well, even if she

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Speaker 1: as an.

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Speaker 2: Adult, Even so, she's no less guilty of no I

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Speaker 2: think harassing her daughter to this point, even if she

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Speaker 2: is joined in on others doing it right.

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Speaker 1: I think that was a non issue that they didn't

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Speaker 1: really get into much in the documentary because it didn't

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Speaker 1: matter whether she sent the first round. It was clear

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Speaker 1: that she said the second round that lasted, you know,

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Speaker 1: over a year. That was up to fifty a day.

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Speaker 1: That was horrible. So anyway, back in October twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: Lauren and her boyfriend Owen, who they were aged at thirteen,

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Speaker 1: began receiving odd, anonymous text messages. One read HI, Lauren

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Speaker 1: Owen is breaking up with you. At the time, the

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Speaker 1: teens assumed it was just a prank. Then in late

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty early twenty twenty one, after that initial burst

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Speaker 1: of messages, the messages stopped for several months, giving the

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Speaker 1: couple hope that the harass was over. Then in September

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one, the message is resumed, this time

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Speaker 1: with alarming frequency, and the teens began receiving thirty to

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Speaker 1: fifty text messages per day. These messages were graphic, sexually explicit, insulting,

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Speaker 1: and life threatening. One message included a homecoming photo of

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Speaker 1: Lauren with a vomiting emoji paced it over her head

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Speaker 1: and the words this is the mother skink and hoe

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Speaker 1: plastered on her body. In a group thread, the texter

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Speaker 1: asked Owen to help take Lauren down and told her

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Speaker 1: that Owen had quote said his life would be better

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Speaker 1: if you were dead end quote and quote no one

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Speaker 1: will care if you gone. Now, this is when she

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Speaker 1: starts using slang, and she starts texting like like a

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Speaker 1: high schooler. Would you know what I mean? She doesn't

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Speaker 1: spell words out, She's like sorry, not sorry. Yeah, she's

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Speaker 1: like hip, she's like learned the slang, so her texting

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Speaker 1: style changes significantly, so every day for months, the harassment

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Speaker 1: continued under immense emotional stress. Lauren and Owen eventually break up,

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Speaker 1: partly in hopes that the messages would stop, but even

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Speaker 1: after they split up, the messages intensified. Both Lauren and

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Speaker 1: Owen's parents became deeply concerned about the teens well being. Now,

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Speaker 1: first of all, she's sending these text messages under anonymous numbers,

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Speaker 1: which I didn't know you could do, but I learned

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Speaker 1: this that there's certain software or apps, like she used PingER,

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Speaker 1: where you can text but your numbers covered up, so

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Speaker 1: every time you text, it just comes up as a

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Speaker 1: different number each time. That's why you don't know who's

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Speaker 1: doing it, so it consistently just keeps changing the number,

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Speaker 1: so your number is hidden and then every time you

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Speaker 1: send a text.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, but she else could have just gotten a

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Speaker 2: random phone or what's app app or something. There's lots

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Speaker 2: of ways to have a number that's not tied to you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, I don't know, because I don't harass people.

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Speaker 1: But I mean I don't have you do directly to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I just ask people directly to their in person, not

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Speaker 1: through I don't.

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Speaker 2: Have to cover to cover that.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't have one of those. So anyway, she's

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Speaker 1: using a PingER account.

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Speaker 2: Agay, But I was just getting at regardless that that's

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Speaker 2: again a non issue. She just found a way to

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Speaker 2: not expose her number her daughter. So Lauren's mom kisses

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Speaker 2: since seventh grade.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so then we're now to December of twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 1: Lauren's mom, Kendra and Owen's mom Jill gather in the

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Speaker 1: school principal's office, demanding that action be taken. Towards the

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Speaker 1: side of the.

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Speaker 2: Principal's office's demanding action.

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Speaker 1: She's demanding action, that action be taken. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's also interesting when you watch this documentary. Because this

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Speaker 1: documentary was clearly filmed in two parts. They filmed it

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Speaker 1: without Kendra Lacari because she initially did not want to

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Speaker 1: be a part of it, and I believe she was

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Speaker 1: in prison at the time when they were filming it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so she's not part of it, and they filmed the

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Speaker 1: majority of it. Then she does decide to be part

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Speaker 1: of the documentary. So now they have interviews with her.

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Speaker 1: But what they've done, which is actually brilliant, is they've

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Speaker 1: gone back and inserted her into the documentary where she's

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Speaker 1: literally talking about how they're trying to find out who

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Speaker 1: this person is. So that's why if you know nothing

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Speaker 1: about this story and you've never heard.

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Speaker 2: So they kept her from giving spoilers. There's no spoiler

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Speaker 2: in the documentary or like a confessional that you do.

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Speaker 2: It's like they brought her in like we need three

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Speaker 2: looks and come in and then tell in time of

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Speaker 2: the recording what's going on?

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Speaker 1: Right? But how is that? Like me, I don't understand

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Speaker 1: that because they bring you in the studio after you

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Speaker 1: feel everything, after the crimes are committed, they bring you

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Speaker 1: in and then.

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Speaker 2: You talk about it. Right, Yes, So this is a

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Speaker 2: prison confessional.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so she's in the documentary speaking and the way

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Speaker 1: that she does it, I mean talk about not having

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Speaker 1: any like conscious because she speaks about it with like

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Speaker 1: full force of like we're going to find out who

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Speaker 1: it is. We're gonna you know, we got to.

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Speaker 2: Get to the Well, that's funny because this makes sense

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Speaker 2: because you were telling me as you were researching and watching,

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Speaker 2: like do they not know it's her? Remember you didn't

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Speaker 2: know if it was the mother, like the production like,

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Speaker 2: what's going on? Now we know? Oh, she came in

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Speaker 2: after the fact and recorded as if Yeah, and without

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Speaker 2: spoiling anything.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, after I watched the whole thing, I did

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Speaker 1: more research and read interviews with the with the producer

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Speaker 1: or director sky Borgman, and it was basically it came

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Speaker 1: down to they filmed the majority of it. Then when

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Speaker 1: she was released from prison she finally decided to be

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Speaker 1: a part of it. They filmed her, filmed her interviews,

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Speaker 1: added them back in, and then it ended up being

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Speaker 1: amazing TV because what happened is you don't think it's

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Speaker 1: her because she's giving interviews about how she's trying to

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Speaker 1: find out who it is, and then there's a moment

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Speaker 1: where it's revealed that it's the mom, and it's shocking

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Speaker 1: if you don't know the story at that point. So

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Speaker 1: the Texter knew and trigger it details about Owen and

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Speaker 1: lawrence relationship, duh because it's the mother, for example, like

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Speaker 1: what short shirt Lauren was wearing the school that day,

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Speaker 1: specifics of the school's basketball or football games, Lauren not

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Speaker 1: being invited to a Halloween party, et cetera, leading them

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Speaker 1: to believe that it had to be another student at

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Speaker 1: the school who was there. That would be a logical thought, right,

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Speaker 1: So I think Kindred really goes out of her way

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Speaker 1: to frame it being a different student. And there's a

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Speaker 1: girl that goes to the school who's friends with Owen

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Speaker 1: named Chloe Wilson. And Chloe already has a reputation of

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Speaker 1: being kind of a bully. She's had a couple complaints

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Speaker 1: against her. She's very strong, she's very outgoing, so.

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Speaker 2: She's a likely candidate.

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Speaker 1: She's athletic, her dad's a police officer. Her mom, I

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Speaker 1: see where maybe she gets this bowling allegations.

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Speaker 2: Because her her mom's a character, a character.

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Speaker 1: I'll just say that. So Chloe Wilson, a well known

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Speaker 1: popular girl, in Lauren and Owen's grade was initially being

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Speaker 1: framed as a cyber bully. In one message, the bully

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Speaker 1: claimed that she scored twelve points in a basketball game.

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Speaker 1: Kindra Lacar, this is the mom who was the scorekeeper

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Speaker 1: for women's basketball, was able to run and retrieve the

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Speaker 1: stats from that game in order to find out that

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Speaker 1: Chloe was the only one who scored twelve points. So

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Speaker 1: I remember this. I believe they were talking about it

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Speaker 1: in the principal's office and the text explicitly talked about

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Speaker 1: scoring twelve points in a game, and Kindra was like,

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Speaker 1: let me go run and look at the stats, and

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Speaker 1: she pulls up the stats and then she's like, it's

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Speaker 1: Chloe Wilson that scored twelve points. So she's clearly framing

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Speaker 1: these text messages around intimate details that have to do

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Speaker 1: with Chloe Wilson. Lauren had always speculated that Chloe had

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Speaker 1: a crush on Owen, and despite Owen and chloeing Chloe

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Speaker 1: being close friends, Lauren never had a close relationship with her.

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Speaker 1: This is Lauren and Chloe. They were never really friendly

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Speaker 1: with each other. The Wilson family always has this huge

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Speaker 1: Halloween bash at their house every year, and Lauren wasn't invited,

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Speaker 1: and this cyber bully used that specific information to portray

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Speaker 1: her as a loser. In one instance, the cyber bully's

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Speaker 1: airs code would change to a nine h six area code,

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Speaker 1: which is Michigan's Upper Peninsula, which happened to be exactly

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Speaker 1: where Chloe was snowmobiling with her family at the time.

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Speaker 1: So you can tell that Kender was very savvy. Not

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Speaker 1: only was she sending text messages through this PingER app

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Speaker 1: that she was using, but she also knew how to

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Speaker 1: change the area code from where these messages were coming

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Speaker 1: to to directly correlate where Chloe was located physically.

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Speaker 2: And she was very serious about this. Yeah, phishing.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was really methodical and meticulous and thought

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Speaker 1: out and obsessive. I mean, when you really think about

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Speaker 1: how much time and energy she.

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Speaker 2: Put into it scary.

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Speaker 1: Despite Owen and Lauren's parents zeroing in on Chloe as

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Speaker 1: the perpetrator, Chloe denied the accusation. She even claimed that

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Speaker 1: she had lost friends because of these false accusations. Now

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Speaker 1: we get to January of twenty twenty two. Despite the

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Speaker 1: school's best efforts and trying to track down the student

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Speaker 1: responsible for the text they got nowhere. I do know that,

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Speaker 1: and I thought this was interesting because I don't know

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Speaker 1: how schools handle this or what the policy is. But

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Speaker 1: in my mind, I was thinking, Okay, these parents go

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Speaker 1: into the principal's office and they're like, look, our kids

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Speaker 1: are getting cyberbullid. It's probably by someone in the school.

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Speaker 1: It has to be because they have intimate knowledge of

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Speaker 1: these friend groups and things that are going on. And

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Speaker 1: then at what point, like the school becomes involved. I

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Speaker 1: liked the principle.

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Speaker 2: How so how do they become involved?

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Speaker 1: They actually set up some sting operations to a certain point.

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Speaker 1: They the principal asked the like Lauren and Owen, if

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Speaker 1: they got these messages during school school hours, to text

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Speaker 1: him and tell him, and then he would look at

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Speaker 1: the recording. What is it, you know, the video of

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Speaker 1: the surveillance, Yes, the surveillance video, and the school to

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Speaker 1: see if they could see if any students was texting

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Speaker 1: at that same time. I believe teachers were aware of

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Speaker 1: what was going on, so they were also on the

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Speaker 1: lookout of any students that look like they were texting

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Speaker 1: at all the times. I mean, I feel like the

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Speaker 1: principal really made an effort to.

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Speaker 2: Help these Yeah, it sounds like it.

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Speaker 1: And you know, they also made the suggestion of taking

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Speaker 1: the phones away from the kids, and then the parents

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Speaker 1: were like, this is their lifeline, this is how we

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Speaker 1: get ahold of them.

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Speaker 2: Why wouldn't at what point would you just change your

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Speaker 2: phone number to at least have that? Now? Had she

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Speaker 2: I know? Had she I know? You say, had she

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Speaker 2: changed your number? And the mom would know? But why

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Speaker 2: wouldn't did they change the number? Because that would be

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Speaker 2: my thought if it was my kid.

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Speaker 1: No, because that was a question that was asked of Jill,

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Speaker 1: who is Owen's mother, and she said that they felt

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Speaker 1: like it would be fruitless to change his number because

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Speaker 1: his number was always in group text with other kids,

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Speaker 1: and they would have just said that Owen's mother Jill,

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Speaker 1: not Lauren's.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, kendraux I was like, well, of course the criminals

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Speaker 2: go be like, no, don't change it.

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Speaker 1: No, it was Owen's mom that said she didn't think.

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Speaker 2: They never Well, that's crappy. Sorry, that's crappy. You're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's an inconvenience in our group chats. So what.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't that it was an inconvenience it was that

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Speaker 1: his number would end up with all his friends and

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Speaker 1: group chats again, so this person who's inside this group

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Speaker 1: would just end up with the number anyway. Because they

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Speaker 1: were so convinced that it was just one of their friends,

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Speaker 1: they didn't know who, so they felt like changing the

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Speaker 1: number would just be pointless.

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Speaker 2: Which is true because the mom would have gotten the

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Speaker 2: new number right.

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Speaker 1: Despite the school's best efforts in trying to track down

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Speaker 1: the student responsible, they got nowhere. And this is when

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Speaker 1: they decided to bring in the sheriff, Michael Maine. And

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Speaker 1: this is in January of twenty twenty two. The sheriff

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Speaker 1: came to the school and questioned ten high schoolers and

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Speaker 1: parents that could be related to the case, but again

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Speaker 1: he got nowhere. At this point, the bully began texting

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Speaker 1: a girl that Owen was seeing at a different high

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Speaker 1: school and a different town. That's very interesting and very

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Speaker 1: significant because I think we'll have to we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: that again later. But even after Lauren and Owen break up,

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Speaker 1: so they're not together anymore, Owen is now dating a

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Speaker 1: girl he met somewhere, I don't know, through sports or

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Speaker 1: something that goes to a different school. She's in a

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Speaker 1: different town. That girl starts getting bullied by the cyber bully,

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Speaker 1: and that girl's mom starts receiving How does she get

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Speaker 1: those numbers? I don't know, but somehow she did and

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Speaker 1: she's bullying those people now. So was there any suspicion

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Speaker 1: towards anyone else other than just these kids at the school.

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Speaker 1: In early February twenty twenty two, Craig Wilson, who is

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Speaker 1: Chloe's dad, he's a police officer, texted a tip to

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Speaker 1: the sheriff and he said, honestly, Mike, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you know Kenja or not, but you really need

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Speaker 1: to be cautious. There is a pretty good part of

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Speaker 1: me that thinks that she may very well be doing this.

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Speaker 1: So that was interesting, but it didn't go anywhere. At

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Speaker 1: that point. The Ball school secretary Diane Fussman told Principal

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Speaker 1: Boyers she also she also suspected Kendra, which Boyer, this

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Speaker 1: is the principal, found implausible. The secretary stated, quote, I

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Speaker 1: always thought she was a little obsessive, obsessive with her child.

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Speaker 1: My gut told me this just isn't one of our kids. However,

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Speaker 1: when Sheriff Mike Maine asked the McKinney's if Kendra would

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Speaker 1: be capable of such a thing, they immediately turned the

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Speaker 1: theory down. And remember the McKinneys is Owen's family, and

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Speaker 1: these two families were very close. Even though I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I think it's kind of weird when there's like a

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Speaker 1: relationship in the seventh grade because to me, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: as a parent, I wouldn't want to be facilitating a relationship.

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Speaker 1: My daughter is in the seventh grade.

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Speaker 2: M h solls mine.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, really, you have a daughter in the seventh grade.

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Speaker 1: Let me rephrase that our daughter is in the seventh grade.

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Speaker 1: If she comes home and has a boyfriend, I am

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Speaker 1: not going to entertain into that she's young, she's twelve.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to be asking about him. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to be taking her to his game.

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Speaker 2: You're going to download the PingER app.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to down and I'm going to harass him,

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Speaker 1: not her. Yes, but I just think it's I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you're a dad, don't you think?

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Speaker 2: Don't you think what you're want to hang out? Hang

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Speaker 2: out in groups, right, mix and mingle. That's all great,

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Speaker 2: but I mean, do you really want the added pressure relationships.

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Speaker 2: I mean, forget the fact that they're young, but right,

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Speaker 2: but no, thank you.

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Speaker 1: It was very much Kindra was very into their relationship

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Speaker 1: and she was always taking photos of them together. And

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Speaker 1: then you know, having Lauren off.

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Speaker 2: Of their their relationship, right well, because then she got

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Speaker 2: to get in the middle of it.

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Speaker 1: Right right. So I don't know, I just think it's

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Speaker 1: weird when parents become so obsessive or integrated or they

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Speaker 1: try to be the.

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Speaker 2: Cool parent, right yeah, like over here you can drink

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Speaker 2: as long as it's in my house. Well, I'm weird.

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Speaker 1: I mean they're young and they're in the seventh grade,

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Speaker 1: and it's like she's taking Lauren to his games and

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Speaker 1: she's planning family trips when he has a.

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Speaker 2: She's gathering intel, she's gathering intel. She's like, what's he wearing?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 2: What are they doing now? Because I'm going to bully

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Speaker 2: them on that, and I'm going to bully them on this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So these two families were very tight. They vacationed together,

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Speaker 1: they traveled together, they went to games together, they did

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Speaker 1: all these things together, and then they became even more

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Speaker 1: close during the whole COVID nineteen shutdown. I guess they

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Speaker 1: had their own little bubble where they were hanging out

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Speaker 1: a lot. So when Jill, who was Owen's mom, was

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Speaker 1: asked if Kendra could be the one sending the text,

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Speaker 1: she said absolutely not, there's no way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Though local law enforcement and the school were trying their

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Speaker 1: best to solve the case, they were getting nowhere. Jill

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Speaker 1: and Kendre were relentless, so law enforcement finally asked an

435
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 1: FBI affiliated task force to step in and investigate. Officer Brad

436
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,239
Speaker 1: Peter was assigned to the case. Now, it's interesting to

437
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 1: me that Kendro in the beginning, when you're watching the documentary,

438
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: and if you don't know anything about the ending, it

439
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 1: makes sense that would be so involved in the case

440
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 1: because she's the mother. So you're thinking, Okay, this mom

441
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 1: is involved and asking questions, calling the police and asking

442
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 1: where they are in the investigation, and wanting to be

443
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: involved with the FBI and going to be yest. So

444
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: but now that you know it's her and you look

445
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: back at all these things that she did, it's i

446
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 1: mean clear to me at that point that she's staying

447
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: on top of it as much as possible so that

448
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,159
Speaker 1: she knows where they're at and how far they've gotten

449
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 1: and how much knowledge they have and how close they are.

450
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: And then maybe she she's an IT person. That was

451
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 1: her undergrad, So her undergrad had something to do with

452
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: computers in IT. And then I believe her career path

453
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 1: she coached at this high school, but she also worked

454
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,959
Speaker 1: in IT and worked in like cell phones or something,

455
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: and so she clearly has a more intimate and professional

456
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 1: knowledge of how all of this works, and she used

457
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: it to her advantage while also while also embedding herself

458
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 1: into this investigation so she could tell exactly where it

459
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 1: was at. So Officer Pete Bradley is the FBI person

460
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: that was assigned to the case. He acted quickly, knowing

461
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 1: that Berner Apps only held onto new subscriber records for

462
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 1: about two weeks. Jill McKinney was asked to send him

463
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: the cyber bully's latest phone numbers daily. During this time,

464
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: Jill started picking up on strange signals from Kendra. Months

465
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: after their children's breakup, Kendra kept prying into Owen's love

466
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: interests and asking if he was dating Chloe. In mid May,

467
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: the bullies sent a text to Lauren that read quote

468
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: and in all caps, kill yourself now. Bitch geez. A

469
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: week after this text message, Officer Peter got a hit

470
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: on it. Well, first what he did, and I read

471
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 1: this more detailed, he figured out that the messages were

472
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: coming from a PingER app. So the first thing he

473
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: does is he sends a search warrant to PingER. PingER

474
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: then returns the information and it shows up that these

475
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: IPNs are related to a Verizon phone.

476
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: So they're they're cooperative.

477
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 1: They're cooperative. Then after he gets that information, he sends

478
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: a search warrant to Verizon, and then Verizon returns some

479
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: numbers associated with these IPNs. So it was a very

480
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: I don't know how long this took, but it was

481
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: a very convoluted search warrant type of situation where he

482
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: had to do PingER first and then he had to

483
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: do Verizon. So then once they get the information back

484
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 1: from Verizon, they're cross referencing these numbers, these phone numbers

485
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: with all the kids in the contacts list, right, and

486
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: they're not getting any hit.

487
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: No, because it's not a student.

488
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 3: Right.

489
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 1: So a week after this text message, the one saying

490
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: kill yourself now, bitch, Officer Peter got a hit on

491
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 1: the Verizon ip addresses that he was digging into and

492
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: he found that only one number had matched his records,

493
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 1: and it led back to Kendra Lacari. So that's when

494
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: they know, and I know I in the documentary. Maybe

495
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 1: I read it because I did a lot of research

496
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: outside the documentary, But I think initially he thought this

497
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 1: can't be right because this is the mom. So they

498
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: kept he kept cross referencing right, and it just kept

499
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: coming up that it was her number attached to her.

500
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: So on August tenth of twenty twenty two, Sheriff Maine

501
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: appeared at Sean's mother's residence, where Sean, Kendra, and Lauren

502
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: were residing at the time. Now there is a cut

503
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: article out there if you want to read it. It's

504
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: super long. I read it twice. It goes into detail

505
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: about this whole situation, the saga. It's way more detailed

506
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: than the documentary is. The documentary takes you through the timeline,

507
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: but this article written by the cut it's very detailed

508
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: as to things that happened, conversations that took place. You know,

509
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: and when they go to arrest Kendra, I couldn't. I

510
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: was confused whether she and Sean were together or they

511
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 1: were separated. I know they were having financial problems, and

512
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: you find out a lot when the police officer shows up,

513
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: and apparently the house he shows up to is Sean's parents' home,

514
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 1: which I believe they were probably living there, maybe for free,

515
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: because they had lost several other homes, they had been evicted,

516
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: they had foreclosed on, and all these financial things that

517
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 1: kept happening. Kendra kept telling her husband it was because

518
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: of scammers, and he was clearly believing her. It was like, oh, well,

519
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: our house fore closed on us because someone stole my

520
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: identity and stole our money, or you know, I couldn't

521
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: pay these bills, and the you know, the storage unit

522
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: where all your two tools were got taken away because

523
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 1: someone scammed us, And it was just scam after scam

524
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 1: was her excuse, where clearly we know now that she's

525
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 1: just she's a pathological liar. The sheriff had a search

526
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: warrant and approached Kendra outside of the house while Lauren

527
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: was in the backyard and Sean was at work. The

528
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: confrontation was captured on body camera footage and is featured

529
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: in the Netflix documentary. After Kendra admits to the crime,

530
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: the sheriff calls Lauren into the house to discuss everything.

531
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 2: However, okay, this she admits. So when they approach her

532
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 2: body camp foot, she confesses.

533
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: Well sort of. I found this whole situation really frustrating.

534
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to read you what the officer says.

535
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 2: Okay, but at this time, when they're approaching her, they're

536
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 2: approaching her as a suspect.

537
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: They're approaching her, well, they have a search warrant to

538
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: get her cell phones, right, okay, so she's not being

539
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: arrested at this time. They're approaching her as basically like,

540
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: we know you did it, we have a search warrant,

541
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: we need your phoney. But and I like to give

542
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: grace to police officers. I'm not in that position. I

543
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: don't know what that's like. And maybe I feel like

544
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: maybe when he went to talk to her and to

545
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: he has a search warrant and he's going to get

546
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 1: the phones. Maybe his approach with her was more of

547
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: a soft approach to get her to confess, most likely

548
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: because he never actually is direct with her. And I'll

549
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: read you the conversation, and I feel like he's playing

550
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: a very good cop role so that she feels a rapport.

551
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 2: Well that and it's easier to do that and then

552
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: she hands over the phone rather than you have to

553
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 2: tackle her and arrest her for not cooperating with the

554
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 2: warrant and then take the phone. You know what I mean.

555
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 2: So you want someone to comply.

556
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: So this is what he says when he walks up.

557
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 1: I'm going to start the conversation. You guys have been

558
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: under a lot of stress recently, some moves going on,

559
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: some financial issues and everything else going on. Mom got

560
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: wrapped up in some stuff and she didn't start it,

561
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: but she will continue it. So we have found some

562
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: evidence and have a search warrant. We're gonna take her

563
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 1: phone and stuff. Sometimes when we aren't thinking straight, we

564
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: do some things that aren't right, Like I it's just there's.

565
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: Never no that's That's like cops always when they interrogate,

566
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: they always say, you're not a bad person. You just

567
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: made some mistakes. Now tell us where the bodies are. Yeah,

568
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It's like, yeah, because you

569
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 2: got you want cooperation. At the end of the day,

570
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what the cops says. That he says

571
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: you're not a bad person. That's not gonna be use

572
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: in jail or in a courtroom or anything like that.

573
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 2: So they say whatever, and the opposite is sure they'll

574
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 2: lie to you as well, right to get you to confess.

575
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I was so when I

576
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: was watching that scene, I was just I was frustrated

577
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: because I wanted him to explicitly say, you were the one.

578
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: We know, you know, the person texting your daughter, we

579
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: know you were the cyberbully. But like he never says that,

580
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: it's embarrassing.

581
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 2: How you are. You always want to just confront and

582
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: just yell at someone right then and there. And that's patience, lady, patience.

583
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: Okay, he's giving me a reunion tips right now.

584
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 2: I'm giving you life tips.

585
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So then the officer calls Lauren. Also,

586
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: by the way, I noticed this, and I saw a

587
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: lot of other people talking about this. When they go

588
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: inside this house, they're behind them or behind the counter.

589
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: There is like eight thousand bottles of alcohol. Like I

590
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know if they're empty or full,

591
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: but it's like, and I'm not talking like beer bottles.

592
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: It looks like a full on like like bar, like

593
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: a liquor. Like yeah, it's like a bevemo in her

594
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: living room or in the kitchen area, and I'm like,

595
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: what is going on back there? But that's just an

596
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: interesting point that I felt like I should bring up. Okay, Anyway,

597
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: then the officer asked for Lauren to come into the house.

598
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: Now here's my other question. They are about to tell

599
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: Lauren that her mother is the person who has been

600
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: cyber bullying her for two years and telled her to

601
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: kill herself and called her every name under the book,

602
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: and made fun of all her insecurities and said bang

603
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: bang dead, suicide, kill yourself, bitch, skink hoe and sent

604
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: sexually explicit like discussing text messages about BJ's and all

605
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: kinds of stuff. Okay, so this is what this child

606
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: child has been dealing with for two years.

607
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: I just felt like in that moment, that wasn't the

608
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 2: way to do it.

609
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: That wasn't the way to tell her.

610
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: She's probably a family member around, right, like her dad.

611
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: They called her dad Sean, He's an innocent, he doesn't

612
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: know any of this. Uh. They call him and tell

613
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: him to come home. So he's on his way home.

614
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: He has not gotten there yet, And.

615
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: I just felt I think they just waited a little bit.

616
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: I felt they should have told she's a miner too, right, Yes,

617
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: they should have told the father right and then and

618
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 2: then let him tell her right or or they wanted

619
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: the reaction. They're like, oh, I got to see this. No,

620
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: I want to tell her, No, I want to tell her.

621
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell her.

622
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I just felt like it

623
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: was just a really and I don't know what's And

624
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: again this is what annoys me. Again. When he tells Lauren,

625
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: he uses very vague language, so I don't even know.

626
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: What I mean, Like he doesn't want to be direct,

627
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: like he's he's dancing around.

628
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is what he says to Lauren. We're gonna

629
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: take her phone and stuff. Sometimes when we aren't thinking straight,

630
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: we do some things that aren't right. Your mom doesn't

631
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: want this to get out, but it is some public information,

632
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: so it's not going to not get out. I want

633
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: to be honest about that, all.

634
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 2: Right, Like this is yeah, No, I don't know what

635
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: that means.

636
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: So when Lauren's sitting there next to her mom, her

637
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: mom is hugging her and crying, and Lauren is just

638
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: sitting there and she has no emotion on her face.

639
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: And this is what the police officer says to her.

640
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: And I've heard so many people say, why isn't she mad?

641
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: Why is it she doesn't know what the heck's going on?

642
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: And in my mind, I'm thinking, does she even understand that.

643
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: This officer is telling No, I wouldn't by what you

644
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 2: were reading, I wouldn't know what that means. Right, Yeah,

645
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 2: he was dancing around the issue he was. I mean,

646
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 2: we already said he shouldn't have told her anyway in

647
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,479
Speaker 2: that forum. But if he was in a tell her

648
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 2: to be like, hey, we found the catfish. She's sitting

649
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: right next to you, hugging you, right.

650
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: But I it's two things for me. Either one, Lauren's

651
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: reaction is based on the fact that she did not

652
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: understand exactly what was going on and what he was insinuating,

653
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: because there is no direct laneguage saying no, mom is

654
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: the cyberbully that's been sending you these texts. We have evidence,

655
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: we found out it's her, So there's there's nothing direct

656
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: that and we're talking again about a child or two.

657
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: If she does understand somewhat what he's talking about, I

658
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: feel like she's been traumatized for so long that she

659
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: was just disassociating.

660
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: And there's no You could ask her at a list

661
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: one hundred people who she thought it might be, and

662
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be her mom. So then here you are

663
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: dancing around the issue, kind of making light of it

664
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: or not being direct, and then all of a sudden,

665
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: she's supposed to put all that together and think it's

666
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: her mom.

667
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: Right. Then the dad shows up and he comes. Well,

668
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: first of all, I don't remember exactly what he said,

669
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: but someone could tell me if you watch it recently.

670
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: But I found this really interesting. When the dad shows up,

671
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: he gets out of the car. They have the bodycam

672
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: footage of him. They're talking to him before he goes

673
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: in the house. They tell him that it's his wife.

674
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: He's shocked by it. Shocked. They also tell I want

675
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: to see right. They also tell him that not only

676
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: is she the cyberbully that's been, you know, bullying his

677
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: daughter for two years, but that Kindra has been lying

678
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: about having a job and she hasn't been working. She's

679
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: been telling her husband that she works for like a

680
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: Farris university.

681
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: And what does she do with the paychecks? They supposed

682
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 2: a paycheck.

683
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. And that's why they've gotten evicted.

684
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 2: Everything.

685
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, she had had she had not worked for a year,

686
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: she had been let go from her job. She had

687
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: told her husband that she had gotten a higher paying

688
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: job and she was working at it.

689
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,479
Speaker 2: But she might didn't work for one day. You would

690
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 2: be like, what's.

691
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: Going on immediately, like, I don't know.

692
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: Sean, she might didn't get a paycheck in the mail

693
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 2: or drek pozi, you'd be on top of that.

694
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: They talk about it in this cut article that I

695
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: was referencing. They go deep deeper into this relationship and

696
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: their financial problems. So Sean worked at he like changed

697
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: oil at a auto place, one of those you know,

698
00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: like probably fast places and whatever it's called quick lube

699
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know what I'm talking about. But anyway,

700
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: Kendra was supposedly the breadwinner because she had this IT background.

701
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: But I'm thinking, how were they even managing how First

702
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: of all, she had three cell phones? How is she

703
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 1: paying for three cell phones?

704
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: Well? The thing the thing isn't his job. The thing

705
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 2: is if they're dependent on the two, if they're two

706
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 2: income family and she only has one, like, you'd question

707
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 2: even more if finances are an issue.

708
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: I don't know why he didn't question it more. I

709
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: don't know why he didn't ask to look at things.

710
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: I don't know why he couldn't pull up bank records

711
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: or ask for something that showed him her work deposits

712
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: being made. I tell you you you have a job.

713
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: I'm on the case. I am on the case. I

714
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: want to see the checks. I want to see the deposits.

715
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: I want to know exactly how much money you're making

716
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: and bringing home. I don't understand this whole well. Kendra

717
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 1: has a job and she's taking care of it. However,

718
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: we've been evicted four times in the past year, and

719
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: I lost all my tools because we didn't pay the

720
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: storage fee. And I mean, he just seemed to I

721
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: think maybe he was just checked out in that marriage.

722
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 2: Is this their only child?

723
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, they only have the one daughter. When Shawn comes

724
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: up and the police tell him, not only does he

725
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: learn that his wife has been bullying his daughter, but

726
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: he also learns that she hasn't been working for a

727
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: year and she got fired and she's been lying about everything,

728
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: and he says something to the cop. I don't remember

729
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,439
Speaker 1: the exact thing, but when they tell him that she's

730
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,959
Speaker 1: the one that's been cyber bullying the daughter. He says

731
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: something to the effect of are you going to arrest her?

732
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: And and the way he said it made me think

733
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: he wanted her to be arrested. Like the way he

734
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: asked was like, so you're gonna arrest her, right? And

735
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: I just thought that that was interesting. I don't remember

736
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: exactly what he said, but the sentiment was like, so,

737
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: so you're here to take her away, right? Right? So anyway,

738
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: Sean walks into the house and he's livid, obviously, and

739
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: he's telling Kendor she needs to get out, she has

740
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: to take her stuff and go, and he tells her

741
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 1: to call her parents and have her parents come get her.

742
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: And he says, I can't do this right now, to

743
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: talk about it in front.

744
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 2: Of the way. So they said no, we're not going

745
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 2: to arrest her, and then he goes in and kicked

746
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: her out.

747
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if they said no

748
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: where yes at.

749
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 2: That moment, Well, they didn't arrest her.

750
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 1: They didn't arrest her because they get up.

751
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 2: He says, go go a little with your parents.

752
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: No he does. He walks in and he says, I

753
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: don't want to be around you, and you have to

754
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: leave and you've been lying and you're not working, and

755
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: I thought you were working. He's more really, honestly, the

756
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: questioning of his wife is more about the jobs and

757
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: not working as opposed to the cyber bullying. So I

758
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: saw a lot of people making comments on Reddit about

759
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: how they didn't like that he.

760
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: Was more focused on our outcome and.

761
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: That she wasn't working and she'd been lying about having

762
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: a job as opposed to what she'd been doing to

763
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: their daughter.

764
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 2: Well, maybe it's just more like like you're this fake

765
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 2: person in this household overall right with your job and

766
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 2: the way you're you're hiding and pinging my daughter or whatever.

767
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: It is, right, But I did I did think that

768
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: the way he handled it was mature because he did say,

769
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: this is going to escalate and I don't want it to.

770
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: So you need to call your parents and have your

771
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: parents come and get you, and you need to go somewhere.

772
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 2: Yeah we need to eliminate. Yeah, we need to take

773
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 2: you out of this equation.

774
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 1: And I felt like that was a mature, safe way

775
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: for him.

776
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: To handle it, handle it at that moment and.

777
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: To be away from her. Also, they don't say in

778
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: this documentary or not whether they ended up divorced, because

779
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, surely he divorced her after this, right, And

780
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 1: I couldn't find a lot.

781
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 2: You asked me to look it up. I remember that.

782
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: Yeah at least, No, you didn't ask me to look up.

783
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: You just kept walking around the house forever wondering how

784
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 2: that if they're married or not. So I was like,

785
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 2: I'll just look it up.

786
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 1: Finally, No, I did search, and I did finally.

787
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you find?

788
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: I found articles that confirmed that he did divorce her

789
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: and he got full custody of Lauren, so right.

790
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 2: I mean their financial statements was just a big zero.

791
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's no money to divide up, so right.

792
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: No, no house apparently, no tools, nothing.

793
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: No, his truck got repossessed too, or his car whatever

794
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,919
Speaker 1: it is that he drove was repossessed as well.

795
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 2: So yeah, he's good to get rid of her.

796
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: My question to you, as a dad, if you found

797
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: out that, let's say Annabel went through two years of

798
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: cyber bowling, because she's the same I found out it

799
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: was you, and then you found out it was me.

800
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 2: I'd have the same thought. Are you going to arrest her? Really? Please?

801
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 2: Take this woman away?

802
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 1: From us, I assume you would divorce me. Yeah, of course,

803
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: Oh oh, you didn't even have to think about it.

804
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 1: It's not even like a let me just hear her

805
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 1: side of it.

806
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 2: Well, the first those wouldn't be the first thoughts. My

807
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 2: first thoughts would be my daughter, what is going on?

808
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: Why are you doing this? You know, like why?

809
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: It would probably be the big question, right, which we

810
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: will get into because I think it's important to discuss

811
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 1: the why.

812
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: Oh do we have an answer?

813
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 1: Well, I think there's a lot of different theories. So

814
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: what was Kendra's reasoning for doing this? So per her

815
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: interview in the Netflix documentary, You know, I think I've

816
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: seen other people that didn't like that the documentary gave

817
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: her a voice, But I thought that that was that

818
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,919
Speaker 1: was good. I mean, you already know she's a mom.

819
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 2: It's really she's already in jail, she goes.

820
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,720
Speaker 1: To prison, she gets nineteen months in prison.

821
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: That's it.

822
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. But you already know by the end

823
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: of the documentary, what a horrible, horrible I can't even

824
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: think about it.

825
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 2: That's perfect.

826
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: So the fact that the documentary maker allowed her to

827
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: come in and tell her own story, regardless of whether

828
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: you like what she says or not. It makes for

829
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: good TV for this woman to decay.

830
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to pick her brain and know what

831
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 2: was going on. So told me they do that all

832
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 2: the time. They always interviewed criminals, right.

833
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people found her so repulsive

834
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: and so discussing that they felt like she shouldn't have

835
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: even been given a platform to even try sensing.

836
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: She also require like no phone cell phone usage for

837
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 2: like twenty years or something. Yeah.

838
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: Kindred told detectives that she did not send the original

839
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: batch of messages that the kids received back in October

840
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, but rather she just fed off of

841
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: it and began to send them herself in September of

842
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. She says she got caught up in

843
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: sending the messages and that it just continued. Kindra claimed

844
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: to have started her own texting campaign to try to

845
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 1: catch who was allegedly harassing her daughter in the first place.

846
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: Well that's an excuse. It's basically like, remember those first

847
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: round of messages that came through, But she's like, oh,

848
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: I started harassing her and sending messages with the second

849
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,959
Speaker 1: round because I was trying to you know, figure out

850
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 1: who it was, like someone would reveal themselves or something.

851
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't really make sense.

852
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 2: It'd be like if there's five thousand messages that she

853
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 2: sent her daughter and she's like, hey, but those four

854
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 2: I didn't send. It's like, well, who cares? Right, damage

855
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 2: is done.

856
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: She claims. I was sending messages in the hopes that

857
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: they might send something back, saying is this so and so?

858
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: She says in the series, I started with the thought

859
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: we need some answers, and then it just kept going. Then,

860
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: Kendra said the trauma that she experienced as a teen

861
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: fueled her desire to protect her daughter from harm at

862
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: all costs. She claims allegedly when she was seventeen that

863
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 1: she was and as my daughter was hitting those teenage years,

864
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: I got scared, very scared. I didn't want her to

865
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: go through that process that I did, and I think

866
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: that really led me to not knowing how to handle things.

867
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 2: Now, you know, not buying it.

868
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: I'm not buying it either. I feel like that's just

869
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: some retro actions. Has turned it back on to her

870
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: type of.

871
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 2: Exp I wanted to be a good mom and I was,

872
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: you know, I had trauma and I just wanted to

873
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 2: be a good mom and I didn't know how to

874
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 2: do it. Now she's turning it back on her.

875
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: You know. I thought it was really a brilliant comparison

876
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: that the principle made when he said it's Munchausen by

877
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 1: computer or whatever. He said, Munchausen by internet. And if

878
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 1: you think about Munchausen syndrome, if you don't know what

879
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: it is, it's basically the root of the Gypsy Rose

880
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: Blanchard case. It was the mom that was pretending that

881
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: her daughter was sick and the reasoning for her doing it.

882
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 1: I don't think the attention was to get attention. It

883
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 1: was to get money.

884
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 2: Intention. It could be attention to money, feelings, time, recognition,

885
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 2: or you know, recognition like you're a great mom, you're

886
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 2: taking care of this sick child.

887
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 1: Right. So that's called Munchausen by proxy. It actually has

888
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: a different name now, but at that time it's Munchausen

889
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: by proxy because the Munchausen is when you pretend yourself

890
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: to be sick for attention.

891
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 2: I think that it's like fictitious disorder or something.

892
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: But Munchausen by proxy is when you pretend someone close

893
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: to you like a daughter in this case is sick,

894
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: and then you feed off of that because you get attention.

895
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's I think it Munchausen

896
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,479
Speaker 1: by proxy sounds exactly like what Kendrick's doing, because she's

897
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: not she's not making her daughter sick, but she is.

898
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: She's stressing her daughter out.

899
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 2: Well, she's making her daughter a victim of something. Yeah,

900
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 2: and then everyone.

901
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: Has and then everybody's rallying around her and giving them

902
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: attention and all these things. The behavior often feeds on itself,

903
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: becoming addictive or compulsive, according to patients. Clearly Kendra was

904
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: addicted to this. I mean, there's no doubt in my

905
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: mind that whatever she's.

906
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 2: Told the job she was doing this twenty four securs well.

907
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: I think she lost the job before she started doing it,

908
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: or maybe she lost the job because she was doing it.

909
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: I don't know of the exact timeline there, but she

910
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: clearly didn't have a job, so she had all day

911
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: to send these messages, to think about what she was

912
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: going to say, to follow these kids around, to be

913
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: in the school parking lot, to coach, all these different things,

914
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: so that she's highly involved in the school and all

915
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 1: these kids. So these ruses are easy to do on

916
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: the Internet. We were talking about this last night when

917
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 1: I said they've now they've said that now there's a

918
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: Munchausen by Internet now that they use that term because

919
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: now with the digital age, it's easy to get attention

920
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 1: sympathy by pretending.

921
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 2: Going into a chat room or something, and we're creating

922
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 2: a website saying I'm sick and go fund me and

923
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 2: all this stuff.

924
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: Right, Like, if anybody's watched Coamanda, that's another one, if

925
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: you know anything about that. That's a girl that fakes cancer,

926
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 1: sets up a website and goes to great links to

927
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: con people into thinking she has cancer, and then she

928
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: takes hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations. So I

929
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, it's it's interesting because they do

930
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: talk about Kendra's personality a lot. They interview her cousin

931
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:09,919
Speaker 1: and then some of the other moms, and they talk

932
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: about how she had this innate need all the time

933
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: to be the center of attention, like she was always

934
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: dancing in front of cameras and always talking about her

935
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 1: daughter and always being everywhere. And so I don't know,

936
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: I think she suffered from something that made her feel

937
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: like she had to have all this attention all the time.

938
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: It was the daughter doing now. Was there an update

939
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 2: like daughter and father?

940
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, what I've read is Lauren's doing well. There's actually

941
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: if you watch the documentary phone number, she has a

942
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 1: new phone number now, a new phone. She's with her dad.

943
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: They have a very close bond. They do hunting and

944
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: sports and all this stuff together. He seems like a

945
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: great dad. I have to give that guy a lot

946
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: of credit.

947
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 2: They probably can now build a relationship that they couldn't before.

948
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:51,760
Speaker 2: It's difficult to do before.

949
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: Now, when you watch the documentary, there is Lauren when

950
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: she has on Pink that was filmed about two years before.

951
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: So this is there's Lauren and a gray hoodie. That's

952
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: when she's like eighteen. So there's two different versions of

953
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: Lauren in the documentary. And when you see the Lauren

954
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: when she's interviewed in Pink, she's very meek, very timid.

955
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: She doesn't have a big, strong personality. She still claims

956
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: to love her mom and wants to see her mom

957
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: and wants to be around her mom. And it doesn't

958
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: really make.

959
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 2: It anything fast.

960
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: They don't really say that what the time frame is.

961
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: They don't give that away. But when they show Lauren

962
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: and like the gray hoodie, that's the Lauren that's the

963
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: most today, and that seems to be the Lauren that

964
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: looks to me as if she's processed through it. She

965
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: understands what her mom did, she understands how horrific it was.

966
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: She's pulled away from her, she hasn't seen her. She

967
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: says that she's kind of ready to see her when

968
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: the time is right, but that's not now. So she

969
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:53,959
Speaker 1: seems to be more I don't know, mature about yeah,

970
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: and understanding more of like how horrible her mother was

971
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 1: and what she did to her. Another reason that people

972
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: think it's impressive that possibly Kendrew did this was because

973
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: she was actually obsessed with Owen. So through the Netflix documentary,

974
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: it doesn't dive much into this theory, and that's probably

975
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: because in order to get people to participate in the

976
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: documentary and to give interviews, they probably don't dive into

977
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 1: things that people are uncomfortable talking about. But the Cut

978
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: article proves that many signs lead to this, and the

979
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 1: McKinney family believes this story to be true too. After

980
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: Lauren started dating Owen, Kendre would come along too. At

981
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,359
Speaker 1: every opportunity, she would ask them to wrap their arms

982
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: around each other for photos and she would turn them

983
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: into presence for Owen. Kendra signed up to coach Owen's

984
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: track team. I thought that was odd, not her daughter's track.

985
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 2: I figure she just wanted to keep alling around so

986
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: she could have something to harass her daughter about.

987
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:48,800
Speaker 1: I think she was obsessed with Owen.

988
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: She's probably well, she has a nut anyway, who cares?

989
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 2: Put her in jail? Lock her up.

990
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: At a volleyball match in August of twenty twenty one,

991
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: Owen and Lauren sat apart from each other. Their relationship

992
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: was extremely strained at this time due to the cyber bullying,

993
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: and Lauren started getting text from her mother, who could

994
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: see them across the gym, not sitting together. And this

995
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: is what she said. This is the text messages. Sit

996
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,720
Speaker 1: next to him, answer me, come here now. I'm pissed.

997
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: Move your ass now now, I am fuming, pissed off.

998
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 1: This is freaking ridiculous. Answer me and move your ass.

999
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 2: Like next to Owen. Yeah geez.

1000
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: As the cyber bully, Kendra sent sexually explicit text messages

1001
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: regarding Owen. He wants sex BJ's and making out. He

1002
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: doesn't want your sorry ass. It is obvious he wants me.

1003
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: His attention is constantly on me. Not sure what he

1004
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: told you, but he's coming to the Halloween party and

1005
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: we are both DTF. You know what DTF is?

1006
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I think so. Do you have fun? Yes?

1007
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: Down to have fun? And as the cyber bully, Kendra

1008
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: harassed Owen's girlfriend that he was seeing after he and

1009
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 1: Lauren broke up. I think you know, you can break

1010
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: it down all day long at the end of the day.

1011
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 1: I don't know the real reasons. It probably was to

1012
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 1: get attention. It probably was some type of munchause and

1013
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: syndrome which would drive Lauren closer to her mom because

1014
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: she's being cyberbullied. I think Kendra was obsessed with Owen.

1015
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: There might be some kind of weird thing there. I mean,

1016
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: that's not unheard.

1017
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 2: None of those theories mitigate, right, the criminality and the immorality.

1018
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: Of what she did exactly, none of it. Just before

1019
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: we end this episode, because we've been talking, I could

1020
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: talk forever about this. I could just sit here and

1021
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: analyze Kendra all day long. But there are some other

1022
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 1: points that I wanted to just ask or just discuss.

1023
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: You know, she was only charged with two counts of

1024
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: stalking a minor and two counts of communicating with another

1025
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 1: to commit a crime.

1026
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 2: Why not abuse or something?

1027
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: Then she ultimately cut a deal and pleaded guilty to

1028
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: two counts of stalking a minor in exchange for the

1029
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: other charges being dropped. She was sentenced in April of

1030
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three to a minimum of nineteen months in jail.

1031
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: My question is, and I'm not I don't know the answer,

1032
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: but I don't understand why she wasn't charged with child abuse.

1033
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:09,959
Speaker 2: That's yeah, that's what I was wondering.

1034
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I went to Michigan's statue for child abuse,

1035
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: and I mean a person is guilty of child abuse

1036
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: if you know they cause serious physical or mental harms.

1037
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 2: Was a child or did she plead?

1038
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: She pleaded, and everybody went to her sentencing, but she no,

1039
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: she was never initially charged with child abuse. I'm saying

1040
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: the DA and the case like never charged her with

1041
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 1: child abuse. And I don't understand that other than maybe

1042
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: he was just trying to be sympathetic to a mom

1043
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: and daughter, or.

1044
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: Maybe before the charges were oppressed, they they had discussions

1045
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 2: and it was.

1046
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean she did. She isn't. She did go

1047
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,879
Speaker 1: to therapy, and she did take parenting classes.

1048
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 2: Over good for her. Yes, I'm sure she's turned a

1049
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 2: new lead, right.

1050
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure maybe that was part of some initial conversations.

1051
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know that she would do those things.

1052
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: So while kend Her was in prison, she was constantly

1053
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: in contact with her daughter, trying to continue their relationship

1054
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: like normal. During that time that she's in prison. Kendra

1055
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: also wrote back to Lauren. Her name's Lauren Smiley. She's

1056
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: the one that wrote this article for The Cut. And

1057
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: from the article, Kendra thanked me for seeking her side

1058
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: of the story and said she'd be ready to talk

1059
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:21,320
Speaker 1: after her release. But then she never replied again. However,

1060
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: she did send an email and this is what the

1061
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: email said. I found this email interesting because I felt like, again,

1062
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: it's just typical Kendra. She says to this is a

1063
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: person that wrote the Cut article. I do ask that

1064
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: you truly think about the kids that are involved in

1065
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: this situation, including my daughter, who is trying to move

1066
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: forward and has a bright future ahead of herself. These

1067
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 1: stories are doing additional harm to her I can handle

1068
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: her powerful right, I can handle the pain, but she

1069
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: cannot and does not deserve it. She is moving forward

1070
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: with life and doesn't deserve to be put in the

1071
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 1: spotlight anymore or having people thinking her mom is a villain,

1072
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 1: as that is very hard ment and emotionally for her.

1073
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I've read that email and I

1074
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: was just like, are you kidding me again? It's just

1075
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: what a narcissist. Kendra was released on parole and is

1076
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,919
Speaker 1: on supervise, released until February eighth of twenty twenty six.

1077
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 1: We do know that Shawn divorced her and receive full

1078
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 1: custody of Lauren, and Kendra is living with her parents

1079
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 1: near Detroit and reportedly has even less contact with her

1080
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: daughter than when she was in prison. I think that

1081
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with what I said about Lauren,

1082
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,280
Speaker 1: where I feel like she's now matured and has maybe

1083
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: a better grasp of the actions that her mom took.

1084
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: Doesn't want anything to do with her. But we'll see,

1085
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: we'll see what happens. I don't know. I don't know

1086
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 1: how you ever repair a relationship like that.

1087
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 2: I would say, you don't.

1088
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: I mean, i'd hate for a mother and a daughter

1089
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: not to have a relationship, but in a situation like that,

1090
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if a daughter could ever have a normal, functioning,

1091
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: healthy relationship with the mother after something like that. Yeah,

1092
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,439
Speaker 1: and the text messaging went on for so long.

1093
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it would have gone on for the rest

1094
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 3: of her life probably, and was so methodical and so

1095
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 3: thought out first degree, right, I mean it's not you

1096
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 3: just can't not like, oh.

1097
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 2: I got caught up, right, or oh I was initially

1098
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 2: trying to help and then it turned into this. It

1099
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 2: was just it was just bad from the beginning, and

1100
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: there's no good reason for her to have done what

1101
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 2: she did. None.

1102
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 1: This is just one last little thing that I learned

1103
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: from the cut article that they didn't put in the documentary,

1104
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: which I find interesting. So I feel like we'll just

1105
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: end the episode with this. At the Wilson's last Halloween party, now,

1106
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 1: remember the Wilson's is Chloe Wilson, the girl that she

1107
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 1: was trying to frame. It's her parents that have this

1108
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: annual Halloween party every year. The mom, Tammy, dressed a

1109
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: scarecrow in a prison jumpsuit and had a mask of

1110
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: Kindra's mugshot on it with cell Phones club in its

1111
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: gnarled hands. At one point, she pondered gathering friends and

1112
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: beale for a big watch party of the documentary. Then

1113
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 1: she changed her mind. Maybe it would be too emotional

1114
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:11,720
Speaker 1: to relive this whole thing again. Maybe best, she said,

1115
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: to just watch it as a family.

1116
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:15,280
Speaker 2: Nice.

1117
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there you go. That is the saga of

1118
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: Kendra Lacari and the Catfish Mom.

1119
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 2: So she will not be nominated for Mother of the Year.

1120
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: No, she's not going to get that nomination. But anyway,

1121
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: thank you guys so much for listening. Again, if you

1122
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: have any other cases that you would like us to

1123
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: dive into, I'm thinking that since we're going to do weekly,

1124
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: I'd like to do the Delphi murders, So if you

1125
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: have any thoughts on that, please let me know because

1126
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they have the right man, and

1127
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: I'd love to dive into that deeper and discuss that

1128
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: with all of you, So let me know your thoughts

1129
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: on that, And thanks so much for listening.

1130
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 2: Thank you,