1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,000 Speaker 1: Hey, Ken, did you know that gold is the only 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: currency that's held its value since the dawn of money? Well? 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: I did, thanks to our friends at Legacy Precious Medals, 4 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: the most trusted name in gold investing. Investing in gold 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: protects you against inflation and gives you a hedge against 6 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: stock market volatility. Don't leave your retirement to chance. Call 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: Legacy Precious Medals today at eight six six six nine 8 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: one two one seven three or download your free Investor's 9 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: guide now at by Legacy goold dot com. That's by 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: Legacy goold dot com. Hey everybody, it's Mike Shellenberger's KF. 11 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: I am six forty. I'm sitting in for the John 12 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: and Ken Show and really thrilled to be here as 13 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: a guest host. My next guest is an amazing, amazing 14 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: writer and thinker. Her name is Anna Lemke. She's a 15 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: professor of psychiatry from Stanford University. She wrote a brilliant 16 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: bestselling book called Dopamine Nation, and I'll let her explain it. Basically, 17 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: this book argues that we can get addicted to just 18 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: about anything, to social media, pornography, drugs of course, drugs 19 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: and alcohol, and that you don't get pleasure without some pain, 20 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: and the two things are sort of balanced, and we 21 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: need to better. We need to do a better job 22 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: of regulating pleasure and pain, or we're going to go 23 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: sideways like so many people are doing right now in 24 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: our society. So I hope think I think Anna's with 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: us on the phone. Anna, are you there? Yes, I'm here. 26 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much for taking the time. 27 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,199 Speaker 1: It's such a pleasure to to be able to chat 28 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: with you. Tell us a little bit about this book 29 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: is really special, and it's I can see it's I 30 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: just went on Amazon. It's just you're just selling tons 31 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: of copies. Tell us you're a big shot professor at Stanford, 32 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: but you wrote a book for us, little people. What 33 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: made you want to write What made you want to 34 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: write a book like this? Yeah, there's no world in 35 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: which I think I would call myself a big shot 36 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: for bestor at Stanford. But anyway, yeah, well, maybe want 37 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: to write this book. Well, you know, I've been doing 38 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: psychiatry for going on thirty years, and I've probably learned 39 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: more from my patience than i've taught any anybody else 40 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: anything worthwhile. But after that much time, you know, seeing 41 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: patients get into really miraculous recovery from all kinds of addictions, 42 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: from gambling to sex to drugs and alcohol. You know, 43 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: plus the amazing neuroscience that my neuroscience colleagues have been 44 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: working on for the past fifty plus years. I just 45 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: felt like there was like a consistent sort of theme 46 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: as well as a kind of aha moment for me 47 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: that would be worth sharing about not just the way 48 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: the brain works in terms of how we process pleasure 49 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: and pain, but also about the world that we live 50 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: in now and how this overwhelming over abundance is mismatched 51 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: for our ancient reward pathways and kind of what we 52 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: can do about it. Well, let's get into that a bit. 53 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: I mean, let me dumb it. See if I can 54 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: dumb it down, and you can tell me what I'm 55 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: missing here. But I mean, I read this book which 56 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: was that there's so many different ways to pleasure ourselves 57 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: for lack of a better We can get a dopamine, 58 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: being this neurotransmitter that makes us feel good, but then 59 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: we get depleted, So you don't get something for nothing. 60 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: You don't get that pleasure without feeling kind of depressed afterwards. 61 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: And similarly, and I've been changing my own behavior, in 62 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: part inspired by you and also because of your colleague 63 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: Andrew Huberman, who runs an incredible lab. I've been I 64 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: run every morning, I take a cold shower. I wait 65 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: to drink my coffee until I've done both of those things, 66 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: and I find, you know, I'm able to get a 67 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: better balance between the highs and lows of a normal day. 68 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: That's what I took from it. But what tell us? 69 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: What do you think what's the big lesson from your 70 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: research and book that you wanted people to come away 71 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: from Reunit with. Yeah, I mean I think the main 72 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, first lesson from the neuroscience is the lesson 73 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: of homeostasis, which is to say that we have this 74 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: powerful physiologic baseline really in all biological systems, but including 75 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: in our pleasure pain processing brain system that I liken 76 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: to a balance. So if you imagine that in your brain, 77 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: there's like a teeter totter and the kid's playground, and 78 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: when it's at rest, and the teeter totters level with 79 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: the ground. And one of the most exciting findings you 80 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: know in neuroscience in the past fifty years is that 81 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: pleasure and pain are co located in the brain. So 82 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: the same parts of the brain that process pleasure also 83 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: process pain, and they work like opposite sides of this balance. 84 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: And one of the overarching rules governing this balance is 85 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: that it wants to remain level, and our brains will 86 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,559 Speaker 1: work very hard to restore a level balance after any 87 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: deviation from neutrality, either to the pleasure side or to 88 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: the pain side. And the way that our brains do that, 89 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: and this is really the key piece you know that 90 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: intuitively resonates when you think about it, but also has 91 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: been found to be true based on scientific research, is 92 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: that the way that our brain restores a level balance 93 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: is first by tipping an equal opposite amount to the 94 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: other side, which is to say, when we do something pleasurable, 95 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: like we drink caffeine or eat chocolate, or smoke a 96 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: joint or look at TikTok, we get a little release 97 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: of dopamine in the brain's reward circuitry, the balance tilts 98 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: to the side of pleasure. But no sooner has that 99 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: happened than that pleasure pain balance basically tilts in the 100 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: opposite direction to the side of pain an equal and 101 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: opposite amount. And I like to imagine that as these neuroadaptation. 102 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: Gremlins that hop on the pain side of balance, but 103 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: they like it on the balance of the don't get 104 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: opposed into the balance as level. They stay on until 105 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: it's tilted an equal and opposite amount to the side 106 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: of pain, and then the balance goes back to the 107 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: level position. So basically, this kind of pendulum or this 108 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: balance is innate. It's reflexive. We can't you know, we 109 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: can't change it. It's the way that we're wired. Nature 110 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: made us that way, so that every pleasure is followed 111 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 1: by its opposite pain, and that pain state then keeps 112 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: us striving to look for more rewards, which in a 113 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: world of scarcity and ever present danger, is highly adaptive. 114 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: It's why we are the ultimate strivers, you know. And 115 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: if we wait long enough, those gremlins on the pain 116 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: side hop off and balance is restored and we're sort 117 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: of back to our homeostatic baseline. But here's the key difference. 118 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: We now live in this world of overwhelming abundance. At 119 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: the touch of a finger, swipe right or swipe left, 120 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: we can have almost any reward instantly, including drugs that 121 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: didn't exist before right, social media, video games, online, pornography, online, 122 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: shopping online, gambling, a cryptocurrency investment, I mean, you name it, 123 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: it's all out there. That has very significant repercussions for us, 124 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: because what it means is that we're not waiting in 125 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: between pleasures for those neuroadaptation gremlins to hop off the 126 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: pain side of the balance and for homeostasis to be restored, 127 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: that is, for our baseline level of domine firing to 128 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: be restored. Instead, what we're doing is we're reaching for 129 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: another jug to make it faster to get back to 130 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: baseline or even get back to the pleasure side. And 131 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: the second rule of the balance is that with repeated 132 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: exposure to the same or similar stimulus, that initial deviation 133 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: of the balance to the side of pleasure gets weaker 134 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: and shorter, but that after effect gets stronger and longer. 135 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: In other words, those gremlins start to replicate and get 136 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: more and more numerous and accumulate on the pain side 137 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: of balance, and pretty soon we've essentially changed our hedonic 138 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: or joyce that point. Now we have enough gremlins on 139 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: the pain side of the bounce to fill this whole room, 140 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: which means now we need to keep using our drug 141 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: of choice not to feel good but just to return 142 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: to the level position and feel normal. And when we're 143 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: not using, we're experiencing the universal symptoms of withdrawal from 144 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: any addictive substance, which are anxiety, your ability, insomnia, dysphoria, 145 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: and craving. So if we go back to you and 146 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: your new morning routine where you run and you take 147 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: a cold shower and you delay your ingestion of that 148 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: first cup of coffee, what you are doing is you're actually, 149 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: you know, in a sense, hacking our primitive reward pathways, 150 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: and you're intentionally recreating a world of scarcity where you 151 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: have to do hard, physical things in order to get 152 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: your reward. You're essentially taking your pleasure pain pathway and 153 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: you're pressing on the pain side and as a result, 154 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: those narrow adaptation gremlins are hopping on the pleasure side. 155 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: So you are getting your dopamine in a very clever way, 156 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 1: which is to say, indirectly by doing hard things first. 157 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: So you're paying up front for your dopamine. And we 158 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: know from the science of hormesis, which is Greek for 159 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: to set in motion, that when we expose ourselves to 160 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: mild to moderate noxious or painful stimula like exercise like 161 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: ice cold water. What we're essentially doing is injuring cells. 162 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: We're injuring the body, but to an adaptive degree that 163 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: we were made for. And then our own homeostatic reregulating 164 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 1: mechanism is kicking into action and starting to make more 165 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: dopamine and make more serotonin and no epinephrin and endogenous 166 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: cannabinoids and endopioids. So that's very smart. Thank you do that. 167 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: Anna Lemkey, you are the smartest personal addiction I've ever met. 168 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: I'm so happy you joined us. The book is Dopamine Nation. 169 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: I am Mike Schallenberger. This is KF. I am six forty. 170 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 1: Fill in it for the John and Ken Show. Stick 171 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: with us. We're going to talk more about these issues 172 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: of addiction and how to keep ourselves healthy after the break. 173 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: I am best known now because I wrote this book 174 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: called San Francico, Why Progressives Ruined Cities. I wrote it 175 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: because I've been heartbroken about the homeless situation, and it 176 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: was so called a homeless situation. I wanted to figure 177 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 1: out why it kept getting worse every year I've been here. 178 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: I came to California nineteen ninety three after I graduated 179 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: from college. I actually was working on energy and environmental 180 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: issues for most last twenty years. But I was so 181 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: upset by the stories that people were telling me on 182 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: the streets. The folks that we call homeless, I discovered 183 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: are overwhelmingly suffering from untreated mental illness and addiction. And 184 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: I'm a little annoyed because many of the so called 185 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: advocates for a homelessness have been really being pretty dishonest 186 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: about this. They've been claiming that the folks are on 187 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: the street just because they can't afford the rent. It's 188 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: not untrue, but you listen to the stories people tell, 189 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: and people get addicted to drugs and they stopped working, 190 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: and they overstay, They're welcome with friends, family, they lie, 191 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: steal and cheat, and then they end up on the streets. 192 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: And I'm I'm not saying this because I'm being real judgmental. 193 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 1: It's just this is what's going on. I have three 194 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: friends from high school. Two of them three friends from 195 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: high school that became a homeless drug addicts. Two are dead, 196 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: one is still struggling. We're actually making a movie with 197 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: one of my friends, Layton Woodhouse, who's actually working on 198 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: a campaign for governor with me. We're making a movie 199 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: about this because we went out and we just interviewed 200 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: a lot of homeless people to hear their stories. I'm 201 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: gonna play just a little bit from it, just to 202 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: get a sense of what people are doing out there. 203 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: And this is me just going up and interviewing a 204 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,719 Speaker 1: lot of homeless people and asking them about what their 205 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: lives are like here we go and what's your choice? Brotherlin, 206 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: Crystal ben Met and Harolin matt An. You don't know 207 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: anybody doesn't smoke Matten though. We saw a woman who 208 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: was pregnant just now. She's smoking fendal and she's eight 209 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: months pregnant. So are you seeing more people showing up 210 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 1: in psychotic space and naked now than say, two three 211 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: years ago. I don't know what they're putting this stuff. 212 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: I don't know if it was aliens. I'm not trying 213 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: to sound crazy. It's fine. Must be causing all these 214 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: like psychological breakdowns. And I think that they had put 215 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: like a transmitter or something hungers. I was able to 216 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: hear and communicate and it knew like I was talking 217 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: to myself, my job. That's a little bit of a 218 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: glimpse of this documentary that we're working on the truth 219 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: about homelessness. It's a bad situation out there. I mean, 220 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: if you on social media, you live in Los Angeles, 221 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: you see increasingly people that are naked in psychotic states. 222 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: There's one that just went around viral, a guy jumping 223 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: up and down on a police car last week naked. 224 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: It's disturbing stuff, and you know, it's a tragedy. You know, 225 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: when we say people are psychotic, that's not what we're saying. 226 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: We're saying that they're basically not awake. They're not it's 227 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: the typical what we mean when someone's gone mentally insane. 228 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 1: They're not in touch with reality. You heard someone in there. 229 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: People often I'll interview people, they'll come in and out 230 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 1: of psychotic states, you know. So I interviewed a guy 231 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: he said, you heard him there, and he was saying, well, 232 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: I think I had a transmit or put in my 233 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: ear by an alien. And then I said, well, you 234 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: think it was that or you think it was the 235 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: meth talking, And he said maybe it was the meth 236 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: and then he would kind of come back into it. 237 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: So it's scary stuff. We know that that you know, 238 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: some people have underlying schizophrenia. It's very rare, maybe one 239 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: percent of the population they end up on the street. 240 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,719 Speaker 1: But a lot of people are becoming psychotic from long 241 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: term methamphetamine use. That's what we're seeing. And you know, 242 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: we used to when people would be out of control 243 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: on the streets, psychotic, screaming at people, you know, living 244 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: in their own wayte they would be arrested, they would 245 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: be brought in front of a judge, they would have 246 00:13:55,679 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: access to psychiatry. Somehow, we were so liberal, role we're 247 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: so progressive somehow, and with the help of the acl 248 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: HU and others, we got the idea that that was 249 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: wrong to do that. And so what we see on 250 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: the streets are open air drug scenes full of mentally 251 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: ill people. Something like one hundred percent, close to one 252 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: hundred percent of the women that we interview have been 253 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: sexually assaulted multiple times. People steal for their habit. So 254 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: this idea that homelessness is a propaganda word. Really, you know, 255 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: it's true we need more housing in California, but that's 256 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: not why people are on the street. People are on 257 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: the street because they've lost control of their behaviors and 258 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: they become disaffiliated, alienated from friends and family. It's a tragedy. 259 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: We're actually building a grassroots movement across California called the 260 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: California Peace Coalition. We need to shut down these encampments. 261 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: There's no alternative to that. That's what they've done in Europe. 262 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: They shut them down, they shut down the open air 263 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: drug dealing, They get addicts into psychiatric care or rehab. 264 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: If you go to California Peace Coalition dot org, you 265 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: can see a full agenda based on the best available 266 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: science of what to do, based on interviews with people 267 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: like psychiatrists at Stanford and elsewhere who have been advising us, 268 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: and it's it's just something, it's a big blind spot 269 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: we've got. You know, our hearts go out to the 270 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: people on the streets and we think that it's compassionate 271 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: to not enforce the laws that they're breaking. But it's 272 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: only by enforcing those laws that people are able to 273 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: get the help that they need. So you've seen George Gascone, 274 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: the DA of a Los Angeles. You've seen Chessabodine, the 275 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: DA who was just recalled in San Francisco. But you 276 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: see everywhere you have these very radical left district attorneys. 277 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: They stop enforcing laws and you end up with people 278 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: dying on the streets, just to get a sense of it. 279 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: The year two thousand, seventeen thousand Americans died of drug 280 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: overdoses and poisonings in the United States. This year it's 281 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: going to be over one hundred and seven thousand people. 282 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: It's an increase of eighty thousand people. That's three times 283 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: more people than die in car accidents, five times more 284 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: than die from homicides. This is we're in a mental 285 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: health crisis in the United States. Our President is out 286 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: to lunch unfortunately on this too bad, because he knows 287 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: from his son, Hunter Biden, the ways in which addiction 288 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: destroys our humanity. It turns us into people that were 289 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: not you know, we've known. It's funny because people act 290 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: like it's a big mystery about what to do. But 291 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: we've been dealing with addiction, hardcore opioid addiction since after 292 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: Civil War. After Civil War, people had access to morphine, 293 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: which was used for the first time in war. People 294 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: were depressed. They started using morphine to get high. So 295 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: we saw all sorts of like middle class, upper middle 296 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: class people in the South and elsewhere start to use opioids. 297 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: We knew that you have to intervene with family and friends. 298 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: And you know, when you ask a group of people, 299 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: how many people here have had experience with addict in 300 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: their families, you know, at least half the half of 301 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: the folks have, and I suspect more than that. Because 302 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: people are still embarrassed by this. They should not be. 303 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 1: We are experiencing dopamine dysregulation. That's a very fancy way 304 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: of saying that we are doing a really poor job 305 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: of measure of managing this pleasure pain balance that we 306 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: just heard Stanford University professor Anna Lemke, author of Dopamine Nation, 307 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: just talk about. I mentioned my own routine. You know, 308 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,479 Speaker 1: I'm not free of this need to establish the balance. 309 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 1: I actually quit drinking three and a half years ago 310 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: because it had become a problem. Don't use any drugs now. 311 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: Actually the only that's not true. I use caffeine. But 312 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: even that one, I've learned to regulate a bit. You know, 313 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: the new science of addiction shows that when you have 314 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 1: these cravings that you know are unhealthy for yourself, you 315 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: have to make yourself do something else. Go for a run, 316 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: take a walk, go to sleep. I get up every morning, 317 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: I run six miles and I just you know. People 318 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: always say, well, that's just you, and maybe that is. 319 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: But we know that if you can get up in 320 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: the morning and get some physical exercise, you don't have 321 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: to run necessarily. Bit a hard walks, get your heart 322 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: rate up, get your breath going. We know it starts 323 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: your day better. The next thing I added almost a 324 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: cold shower. Look, guys, I hated doing these things. I'll 325 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: be honest with you. I made myself do it because 326 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: I knew it would make me happier. So it sounds crazy, 327 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: but if you're feeling bad, go out and exercise. You're 328 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: feeling stressed out a lot of times, so anxiety depression 329 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: go together. You get If you're feeling anxious, that means 330 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: you have energy that you need to burn off. You're 331 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: something bad happened at work, something bad happened in your relationship. 332 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: Go for a run, go for a swim. If you 333 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,719 Speaker 1: can't run a swim, take a long walk. Just run fast. 334 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: Do it until you get yourself a little out of 335 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: breath and you start to sweat a bit. Get your 336 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: heart rate up, and then come back and you'll feel 337 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: much better. Take a cold shower that helps too. But 338 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: the idea here and this is not The science is 339 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: very good now it's gotten. They've now able to prove 340 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,959 Speaker 1: these things looking at the brain. But we know that 341 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 1: you've got to establish this balance what Anna Lmke calls 342 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: the homeostasis. You know, go buy her book if you 343 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,239 Speaker 1: want to a dopamin nation. You can figure this out, 344 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: or just go online. You can watch you know, if 345 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: you google a Stanford addiction docs are the best. So 346 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: much more to say about this, but look, today is 347 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: June teenth, and we are going to talk about what 348 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: a special day. This is the first time it's been 349 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: a federal holiday. I'm Mike Shellenberger. This is KF. I 350 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: am six forty. I am sitting in for the john 351 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: and Ken Show. It's Mike Shellenberger. This is KF. I 352 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: am six forty sitting in for Johnny Ken on the 353 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: Johnny Ken Show. I've been a guest on the show 354 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: a couple of times and we really hood off. But 355 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: I was surprised they invited me back. I think it 356 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: was a bit of a little bit of a participation trophy, 357 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: you might say, for somebody that just came in third 358 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: in the gubernatorial election in California. Nonetheless, I had a 359 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: Black running for office came in third, big grassroots movement 360 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: campaign to solve the homeless issue, kind of solving the 361 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: addiction issue, solving the energy crisis. Our campaign's over, but 362 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: our cause continues to go on, and I'm really excited 363 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: about the next guest. This is a gentleman whose voice 364 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: needs to be heard a lot more. Wilfred Riley, Professor, 365 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 1: Kentucky State University. He's going to We're going to talk 366 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: about the good news on race relations, the progress we've made, 367 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: the work we still need to do as well. But nonetheless, 368 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: today is a special day. It's Juneteenth. This is a 369 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: federal holiday. A lot of people are only celebrating for 370 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 1: the first time. It's actually the second year in a row, 371 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: it turns out. But nobody really had their act together 372 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: last year apparently. But this year Juneteenth is getting a 373 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: lot more attention, and it's including by me. It's not 374 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: something that I'd paid a lot of attention to you before. 375 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,959 Speaker 1: When I thought about, hey, let's talk about, you know, 376 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: the work we've done in terms of race relations in America, 377 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: but also the work we got to do. First person 378 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: that came to mind was Wilfred Riley. Wilfred are you 379 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: with me? Yeah? Sure, am Hey great, Thank thanks so 380 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: much for taking the time. I really appreciate it. Yeah, 381 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: I'm glad to hand me on. You and I met 382 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: a year ago. You are professor political science at Kentucky 383 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: State University, and we were both at a conference on wokeism. 384 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: I've been called this show, actually the host of this 385 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: show called me what they say, like a reformed wocist 386 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: or a wocist reformer or something. But we got together 387 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: and we talked about wokeism, which is sort of about 388 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: people that have become maybe a little bit too obsessed 389 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: with race and racism and sex and identity politics. But 390 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,959 Speaker 1: you got up and gave an incredible talk about some 391 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: of the progress that's been made that we need to 392 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: pay attention to as a way to kind of orient 393 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: us in terms of all the work we still need 394 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: to do. So thanks for coming on and help us 395 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: understand what is today's holiday about and why is it 396 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,719 Speaker 1: important or is it not important? You've got counter you've 397 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: got contrarian, counterintuitive views. What do you think of Juneteenth? 398 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: What is this day? Why does it matter? Why? And 399 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: what does it mean about race relations in America? Right now? Well, 400 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: there I mean, there's a lot there and the question Juneteenth, 401 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: I'm cool with it. I'm doing some grilling today with 402 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: some of my buddies. I don't. I mean, there is 403 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: obviously an element of pandering to saying where we're going 404 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: to create sort of a second Black Independence Day. But 405 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: I mean, unlike something like Quanza. I mean, Juneteenth was 406 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: something that my uncle celebrated as a kid. I mean 407 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 1: it was the day that the Emancipation Proclamation was actually 408 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: read out in much of the South. It began as 409 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: a Texas thing. So taking something that was a popular 410 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: regional holiday, and I mean, and there are people they're 411 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: sell bringing a bunch of different things. I mean, Father's 412 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: Day was yesterday. It's a bald eagle day. And I 413 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: live in a state capital, so there a couple of 414 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: people downtown dress like eagles. Anyway, I mean, there are 415 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: a number of state and federal holidays in the country 416 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: that strikes me as a worthy one. I don't think 417 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: that's a big deal, but I do think the context 418 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 1: of the June tenth debate sort of is. I mean, 419 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: when you refer to wokeism, one of the things we 420 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: both said at that conference with Chris Ruffo at a 421 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: bunch of other people. Is that wokeism is a pretty 422 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: specific thing. You could call it sort of race and 423 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: gender Marxism, Like it's the migration of this idea that 424 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: society really is set up to a press group x 425 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: away from that arena of kind of economic quantitative critical theory, 426 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: where it at least could make sense if you're talking 427 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: about the rich man quote unquote into literally everything else. 428 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: So a later way feminist would say that they've sort 429 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: of replaced the rich man with the man. Society is 430 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: structured to benefit men. Marriage is a way for men 431 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: to get as much sex out of women as possible, 432 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: for example, whatever you might think about that. But critical 433 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: race theory, the rich man is replaced with the white man. 434 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: So society is structure to benefit white people. The purpose 435 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: of something like a standardized testing requirement for Stanford or 436 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 1: cal Tech isn't to get in the best students. It's 437 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: to keep out minorities who are disadvantaged by the cultural 438 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: unfairness of math or whatever the argument is, and admit 439 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: as many whites as possible and so on down the line. 440 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: And all of this this kind of quasi Marxist, quasi 441 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: Frankfurt race gender stuff has really taken over the left 442 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: during the period since i'd say maybe twenty twelve. So 443 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: I think the left is actually right on a lot 444 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: of things, and I think you join me on this, 445 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: But I mean, healthcare comes to mit, you know, absence 446 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: some of the crazy green stuff. But the environment, we 447 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: do need to pay attention to it. The Endangered Species 448 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: Act is a good idea, so there's been less of 449 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: a focus on that, though if you look at the 450 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: things that are being pitched in fundraising campaigns is I 451 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: think we've both have and more of a focus on 452 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: things like gender transition surgeries for young kids. It's just 453 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: probably the number one issue being debated in the country 454 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: right now, and that comes straight out of quote unquote 455 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: queer theory, which is another one of these woke philosophies. 456 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: So any rate at this event. Really in a couple 457 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: of sentences, I broke down the sort of the facts 458 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: on the ground in the USA, and one of my arguments, 459 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: one of the things I say in academic papers is 460 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: that it's extremely odd that we've chosen to focus on 461 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: race and gender like this right now, because in empirical terms, 462 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: we're way way more tolerant. I mean, if you look 463 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,959 Speaker 1: at that classic definition of a racist to someone who 464 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't date, or work for, or vote for someone of 465 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: a different race. Racism has declined about ninety percent in 466 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: the USA since the nineteen fifties, and that's empirically testable. 467 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: The crazy thing, though, is that mentions of racism and 468 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: kind of the papers that matter, The Times, the La Times, 469 00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, they've increased about fourteen hundred percent. 470 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: So there's kind of a question of what are what's 471 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: going on, especially on what used to be the center left. Yeah, 472 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: Wilfred stick with us, so much more to talk about. 473 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: This is Mike Schelmber's kf I AM six forty sitting 474 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: in for the Johnny Ken Show. We're going to have 475 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: more with Wilfred Riley on race in America. After an 476 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: update from Debra Marks in the KFI newsroom. It's Mike 477 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: Schellenberger is kf I AM six forty sitting in for 478 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: Johny Ken on the Johnny Kinn Show. I've got Wilfred Riley, 479 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: Kentucky State University political science professor and really amazing thinker 480 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 1: on race relations. He has documented, of course, acknowledging that 481 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: we still have a lot of racism in society. We 482 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: need to do much more to confront it. At the 483 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 1: same time, we are celebrating Juneteenth, and we're also recognizing 484 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: this huge amount of progress we've made in terms of 485 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: race relations in the United States. Huge most people, of 486 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: vast majority of people, except by racial couples, they vote. 487 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: They're willing to vote for people of a different race. 488 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: We've seen a significant decline nobody knows this of police 489 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: killings of black men over time, something I talked about 490 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: in my book. San Francico Wilfrid and I met last year. 491 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: He stood up and give an incredible talk about how 492 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: race relations have improved. Yes, more to do, but race 493 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: relations have improved. So then why is it that we 494 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: seem to be more obsessed with racism and race relations 495 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: than ever before? Wilfred, are you still with me? Yeah, 496 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: it's still right here, and it's a great question. I mean, 497 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: so when you look at practical politics, I mean, you 498 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,199 Speaker 1: were recently a candidate for governor. I mean, I have 499 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: an executive role at a pretty major university. I mean, 500 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: when you're actually out there in the world, you have 501 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: to compare what you're working with to your opponents, I 502 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: supposed to other human groups in the case of the USA, 503 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,360 Speaker 1: other countries not to heaven. So I mean, we actually 504 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: ranked countries in political in terms of what you'd call 505 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: out group bias, and the USA is the third or 506 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: fourth least prejudiced country in the world. So it's not 507 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: just what you're saying. What you're saying is true, but 508 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: it's not just that we're doing okay, we're doing better 509 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: than we used to be. We're one of the best 510 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 1: human societies up there was written in Costa Rica, if 511 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: I recall correctly, when it comes to large groups, large 512 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: armed groups here like blacks and whites and Asian Americans 513 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: getting along. So it's what's going on. Yeah, I mean 514 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: it's funny because I've traveled around the world. I traveled 515 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:38,479 Speaker 1: to Korea, Japan, Africa, Europe. I find so much more 516 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: racism everywhere else in the world than I'm not saying 517 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: it's not here, it is, But yeah, why is that? 518 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: Why are we so obsessed with this issue despite the project? 519 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it's worth mentioning that the countries you mentioned, 520 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: like Japan and the sophisticated African countries like South Africa 521 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: and Nigeria are mostly openly racist. I mean around the world, 522 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: it's not at all usual to have an immigration policy 523 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: that will let in only people of one ethnic background. 524 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: I think it's Japan's. South Africa was divided between the 525 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: white group in different black groups like the Zulu tribe, 526 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: all of which hated each other until like nineteen ninety seven. 527 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: And these are these are g thirty countries. These aren't 528 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: uncivilized places. So yeah, when you compare the USA in 529 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: terms of say, black white relations to another player, you 530 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: have to compare us to South Africa or Japan or France. 531 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: You can't compare us to Utopia or asgard So why 532 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: did this begin in this one period of time? I 533 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: think social media had a lot to do with it. 534 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: I think a lot of modern trends, from smaller ones 535 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: like the pro ana movement in terms of physical appearance, 536 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: to the transgender massive growth of the transgender community, to 537 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: real social justice. I mean a lot of that has 538 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: to be because you can link together on Twitter or 539 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: Facebook with ten thousand people that think like you do 540 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: almost immediately. And I mean that's also the genesis of 541 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: the Tea Party and all right to some extent, right, 542 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: So I think that played a big role. I mean, Wilfred, 543 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: you will also notice something else, which is that it 544 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: seems like this is not the obsession with race is 545 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: not coming equally from across the political spectrum. It's coming 546 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: from the radical left. It's coming from folks that really 547 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: are the same people who say that the United States 548 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: is this evil country, that we're stained, we're just sort 549 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: of original sin. I mean, it feels like this is 550 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: a particular left wing phenomenon. I have to wonder does 551 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: it have something to do with the fact that national 552 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: identity has declined a lot. You know, we're much more globalized, 553 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: and it seems like when everybody's there's a strong national 554 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: identity and we're all fighting the Russians or the Nazis 555 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: or the Japanese World War two, there's some sense in 556 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: which we're all a single nation. And when that kind 557 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: of goes away, we start to turn on each other. 558 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: Am I onto something there or do you think it's 559 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: it's misplaced? No? I think that could play a role. Yeah, 560 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: there's there's a declining one of the things that actually 561 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:07,959 Speaker 1: really is true. I mean, if you look at just 562 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: some of the quant writing in this field, the big 563 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: sort coming apart is that the things that used to 564 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: give identity that really did transcend race, like all males 565 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: did that mandatory four years in the army, that largely 566 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: cross social class. I mean almost everyone went to public school, 567 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: fifty percent of guys where varsity athletes, almost everyone had 568 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: a home church, bowling leagues, like all of that stuff. 569 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: Participation percentages have declined by between thirty and eighty percent, 570 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: So people are kind of falling back on those less 571 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: healthy identity characteristics. Like when I think of myself, I'd 572 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: think of myself as supposed as an American in terms 573 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: of my social class, in terms of my friend group, 574 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: in terms of my old athletic teams, that kind of 575 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: thing being black or Catholic. I mean, it's something I like, 576 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: but would probably be number five, six seven. So if 577 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: that's the first thing you identify yourself with, it's going 578 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: to be very easy to think of people who clashed 579 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: with your group in the past as enemies instead of countryman. 580 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: So there's a lot that goes into this, But again 581 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: this is very recent and in terms of actual laws 582 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: regulating discrimination or whatnot, we're want to be the most 583 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,479 Speaker 1: tolerant countries in existence. Certainly terms of day rides. Wilfred Riley, 584 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 1: You're a Kentucky State University professor political scientists. People can 585 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: find you on Twitter. You are fierce on Twitter. Your 586 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: voice needs to be much more widely heard. Thank you 587 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. This is Mike Schallenberg. This 588 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: is KF I am six forty. I'm substituting for John 589 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: account of John Kin Show. Stay tuned for more discussion 590 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: of the homeless drug addiction crisis in California after Deborah 591 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: Mark's newsbreak. Stay tuned. It's never been more important to 592 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: diversify your financial portfolio. Well, that's right. The S ANDP 593 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: is down twenty percent from the last year, and this 594 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: year looks even worse. 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