1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to another bonus episode as Politics Now. Recently, I 2 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: had the pleasure of recording an episode with Jason Wilson, 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: a best selling author, educator, and the founder of a 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: transformational training academy that's based in my hometown to Detroit, 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: cabb The Cave of Abdullam. At the Cave, Jason uses 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: martial arts to teach young at risk boys emotional discipline 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: and leadership, with a very heavy focus on character development. 8 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: Jason has been internationally recognized for his work. 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 2: Which includes being the subject of a ESPN thirty for 10 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: thirty documentary. 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: Now, in a time where a lot has been said 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: and written about the mental health crisis facing young boys 13 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: and men, especially Black boys and men, Jason's voice really 14 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: stands out. He speaks often about men freeing themselves from 15 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: emotional incarceration, since society has conditioned men to believe their 16 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: emotions should be suppressed and avoided. 17 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 2: Now, as so often. 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: Happens when in conversation with Jason, it turns into a 19 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: therapy session. 20 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 3: Now. 21 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: I went into our interview with the express intention of 22 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 1: not doing that, but as a woman, there are certain 23 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: themes that Jason addresses that have gotten me to take 24 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: a more introspective look at my complicated relationship with my father. 25 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: So as we got to talking, my intention of this 26 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: episode not turning into a personal therapy session. 27 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 2: Well it went right out the window. Take a listen. 28 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: So it was that chapter, the Sun chapter, that all 29 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: of it, every chapter you have resumenated with me in 30 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: different ways, either when it came to allowing me to 31 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: understand my husband better or thinking about my own emotional incarcerations. 32 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 3: That I have. 33 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: But the Son chapter really resonated with me because I 34 00:01:55,720 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: was particularly interested in how you repaired or ought to repair. 35 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: The relationship with your father. 36 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: You know, I noticed in a lot of interviews that 37 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: you do, they wind up being therapy sessions for the 38 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: people you and I. 39 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 2: This like, I promise I'm not doing that. 40 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: I need to, I need other people to get this information, 41 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: especially men. But I have to say it did make 42 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: me think about my own very complicated relationship with my father, 43 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: who I have not spoken to in probably almost three 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: years for a variety of reasons, and for the first 45 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: time in that time, it actually made me want to 46 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: pick up the phone and call him. And something that 47 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: you said in the book about how sometimes. 48 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: The treatment women received can make us hearten our hearts. 49 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: And my heart feels very hard toward him now, and 50 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: I don't know how to make it unheard, But reading 51 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: your book it certainly gave me some things to at 52 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: least think about. So I wanted to ask you a 53 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: little bit more or about what was it that allowed 54 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: you to maybe see your father in a way you 55 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: hadn't seen him before as he was dealing with I 56 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: believe it was prostate cancer. 57 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 3: Correct, prostate cancer and parkinson and parkinson. 58 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: So yes, that is correct, And so what was it 59 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: about it that repairing that that unlocked it for you 60 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: even though your father had not yet been in the 61 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: place yet where you could understand why he parented you 62 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: the way that he did. 63 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 3: You know, to be honest, I have to say it 64 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 3: was it's my relationship with your shoe or eye, because 65 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 3: my wife told me when I cursed him out for 66 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 3: him accusing me of stealing money from and hung up 67 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 3: on him, she was like, you know, Jay, you know, 68 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 3: you know we often say what would Jesus do? Like 69 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 3: literally in this moment, what would he do? And I 70 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 3: know forgiveness is not necessarily for the one who offends you, 71 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 3: it is for us. You know, and in my relationship 72 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 3: with y'all the most high. So I had to forgive him. 73 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 3: And when my stepmother made that call and say, hey, 74 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 3: your father's not doing well, you know, it wasn't that 75 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 3: much of an offense where I would let him die 76 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 3: without seeing And even though I didn't, I knew he 77 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 3: wasn't dying. But you tell me that it's one of 78 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 3: the strongest men I evernue in my life isn't doing well. 79 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 3: I had to go visit him, and so I still was, 80 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 3: you know, guarded, but when I saw my father barely 81 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 3: could move, it broke me. You know. I sat next 82 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 3: to his bed and cried, and from that moment I 83 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 3: vowed to be in his life. I forgave him, and 84 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 3: I'm so glad I did, because I learned that he 85 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 3: was just a product of how he was raised. He 86 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 3: was conditioned to be hard, just like my generation, except worse. 87 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 3: They didn't have opportunities to express how they feel like 88 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 3: we do today. And so I chose not to give 89 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 3: the devil two stones, you know, like you're not going 90 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 3: to take me and him out. You know, I'm going 91 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: to make sure I do my part to make sure 92 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 3: I reconcile, and I wanted to get some information from him, 93 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 3: like you know, why are you this way? What happened? 94 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 3: And I learned that he, too, like me, was called 95 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 3: to be a servant of the most High, but he 96 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 3: ran for me and what was deep after the many 97 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 3: visits to the nursing home where it was, I asked 98 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 3: him to make you know, if I had to make 99 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 3: him a promise, what would it be? And out of 100 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 3: anything he could have asked me said, I want I 101 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 3: want you to preach the gospel and I want to 102 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 3: hear you. And he was able to do both. And 103 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 3: so I always encourage, you know, children of parents who 104 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 3: they've been wounded by, like don't let them die without 105 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 3: you trying your best to reconcile. It like that weight. 106 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 3: You don't want to be the child at the funeral 107 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 3: that jumps at the casket, you know. And so I 108 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 3: don't know what you and your father went through. Oh 109 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 3: hold on, jay, I think, okay, good. I don't know 110 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 3: what you and your father went through. And you know, 111 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 3: sometimes it seems like it's you can't go back, but 112 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 3: the first step is always forgiveness, Like, hey, you know, 113 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 3: I forgive you. I got to let it go for myself. 114 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 3: Once I was able to let go, I was finally 115 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 3: able to learn his side of the story. And then 116 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 3: I found that I was interpreting a lot like it 117 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 3: wasn't It wasn't a lot of truths there because I 118 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 3: was young, and if I didn't hear it from the 119 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 3: horse's mouth, you know, I was just interpreting. But when 120 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 3: I finally heard where he got his mindset from, why 121 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 3: he was so angry, it seemed like perpetually my father 122 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 3: had a chip on his shoulder, we were able to 123 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 3: finally laugh. And then Jay at seventeen, no, at thirty 124 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 3: seven years old, was the first time I heard him 125 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 3: say he loved me. And that all happened because I 126 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: gave him an olive branch and he took it and 127 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 3: we were able to reconcile. 128 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: I would say, I thought I'd reached that point with 129 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: my father many many years ago, like in my early twenties. 130 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: You know, we were estranged a little bit when I 131 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: was coming up. He was sort of in and out. 132 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: He was dealing with a drug problem, which I understood, honestly, 133 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: Like that part I was holding no resentment for because 134 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: my mother also dealt with a substance abuse problem, and 135 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: they dealt with her at different times. My father they 136 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: were never married, and my father he got cleaned before 137 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: she did, and so when he was able to be 138 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: in my life, it was fine, but it was still 139 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: the absence of time just does something. It's like we 140 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: couldn't quite connect in the way we probably should have 141 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: because of that time laps. 142 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 2: But that was okay. I was. I was more than 143 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: open to it. 144 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: And I guess the problem that I struggled with after 145 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: the forgiveness because I again fine, wrote him a letter, 146 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: got it all out. 147 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: We were good. It was okay. What I struggled with 148 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 2: was what I felt like was. 149 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: A lack of effort on his part as I got 150 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: much older and was grown. It's like, why am I 151 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: always the one reaching out? Why is it that I'm 152 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: the one flying you out to see me? 153 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 2: Why? 154 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: Like continually, continually, continually, And it just felt like it 155 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: was imbalanced, which was again something I accepted for a 156 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: long time. And then when my book came out, My 157 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: memoir came out in October of twenty twenty two, he 158 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: went to Facebook to say how he felt about the book, 159 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: the book in which I don't think I aired him. 160 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: Out at all, Like, in fact, I felt like I. 161 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: Was more than gracious, but his issue, as we had one, 162 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: he took the issue to Facebook, which was. 163 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: Not going to be That was something that was not warranted. 164 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: I didn't think if he had a problem with the book, 165 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: he has my number, he could have caught me and 166 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: told me. But his problem with the book, as we 167 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: got into a discussion, wasn't what I said about him, 168 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: because it was all factual. And again I didn't disparage 169 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: my father. He said his problem was that he wasn't 170 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: in it enough and. 171 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 3: So really. 172 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: I know I didn't either, and so that did not 173 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: sit right with me. And there's you know, been some 174 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: other things, uh, and it just didn't And finally I. 175 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: Just decided, like what am I doing this for? Like why. 176 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: This is not a relationship that I feel like I 177 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: need to keep carrying. And I just said, like I'm 178 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: kind of done, and I don't you know, I have 179 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: to say I haven't really felt bad about it, but 180 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 1: I also realize and wonder, like am I just masking 181 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: something is unhealthy for me to feel this way, especially 182 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: towards your own father. And so your book made me 183 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: sort of think about that like, okay, if something did 184 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: happen and oh, by the way, something did happen to 185 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: my father a few years ago. 186 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 2: He had to undergo a triple bypass. 187 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: Like literally, and I was there, like I was there, 188 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: and so, you know, and at my wedding, like my 189 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: father walked me down the aisle. He barely could because 190 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: he was suffering from some heart issues that I was 191 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: unaware of, but he was still able to do it 192 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: and it was still a moment. But there is a 193 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: selfishness in my father that it's hard for me to 194 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: deal with. And I don't know where that comes from, 195 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: and I it's just something that I'm struggling with in 196 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: terms of trying to re establish the connection. 197 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 3: Have you considered having like a therapy session with you 198 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 3: him and a therapist. 199 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 2: I have not. 200 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: And the crazy thing is is that my father is 201 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: actually a licensed therapist. 202 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 3: Now you really messing me up. But hey, like I 203 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 3: often say, therapists need therapists as well, you know. And 204 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 3: so your father has trauma, sometimes it's worse because he 205 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 3: knows what he needs to do to resolve it, and 206 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 3: you know, like sometimes the people who know it all 207 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 3: typically don't do Like my wife is a registered nurse, 208 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 3: but she have us suffering around the house. You don't 209 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 3: need to go do this, and we can make this 210 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 3: work because she knows what the worst case scenario looks like. 211 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 3: And so I remember one time we both had food poison. 212 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 3: She having us both in the house vomiting, like it's 213 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 3: going to pass. I'm like, look, you stay here, I'm 214 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 3: going to the er. And you know who was right 215 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 3: next to me. She was in the er getting IV. 216 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 3: You know, so sometimes you know the therapist needs a therapist, 217 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 3: and you know, I would truly encourage you to do that. 218 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 3: Like if my father was still living, I definitely would 219 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 3: take that route because it's so much that I didn't 220 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 3: get because I wasn't the man that I am now back, 221 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 3: what is it almost twenty five years ago? Wow? Two 222 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 3: thousand and seven, I believe. Yeah, he passed in two 223 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 3: thousand and seven, but prior to that, in early two thousands, 224 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 3: I missed a lot and like it's so many questions 225 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 3: it didn't get answered, and I would hate for him 226 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 3: to leave here. And you didn't reconcile that, like you 227 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 3: think you may feel a certain way now when he's 228 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 3: gone and there's no chance to reconcile or get the 229 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 3: answers to the questions and to get clarity on the 230 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 3: things you never understood are gone. It really makes life 231 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 3: a lot heavier, you know. So I would just encourage 232 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 3: you to, especially since he's a therapist, he understands the 233 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 3: importance of releasing or not repressing what's going on inside, 234 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 3: and say, hey, Dad, I would like to know your journey. 235 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 3: It may even help you just to hear his story, 236 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 3: like how was it like growing up with grandma and granddad? 237 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 3: You know, what did you what was your most traumatic 238 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 3: moments in your life? And then you can start seeing like, man, okay, 239 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 3: I see why this shape you because real talk a 240 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 3: lot of times, you know, even in the cave of Adullum. 241 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 3: You know, some people would get mad when I say 242 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 3: that I've never seen a father that didn't want to 243 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 3: be with his son. And what I mean by that 244 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 3: is when I talk to a father who's absent and 245 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 3: not being present in their child's life, it's always. It's 246 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 3: never that they don't love their son and want to 247 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 3: be with them. Is how they view themselves as their 248 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 3: son's father. Meaning a failure I can't provide, I can't 249 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 3: pay for certain things, so they think the only option 250 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 3: is to not be around. But that makes things worse. 251 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 3: But because we've been conditioned to believe we're only providers, 252 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 3: this is all we can do. If you don't do this, 253 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 3: you're nothing. Providing for a child is more than providing money. 254 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 3: And so I just encourage you, my sister, to you know, 255 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 3: take a deep dive with them. You know, again, that's 256 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 3: your father. He has a story, he has a cause 257 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 3: and effect. And I'm almost certain how old is your dad? 258 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: And this what so my dad? 259 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: I believe because his birthday is actually coming up soon, 260 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: he's going to be seventy seven. 261 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he doesn't mean even though he's a therapist, 262 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 3: therapy now versus back then is big difference. 263 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: And I should add to that that his training is 264 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,079 Speaker 1: in therapy with people suffering through substance abuse. 265 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 3: It's similar, but it's not like psychotherapy. 266 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 2: Right yeah, yeah, that's what. 267 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 3: Take that journey. Take that journey. I could see it 268 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 3: in your eyes, and especially as a daughter, that's the 269 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 3: first level of your life. You don't you don't want 270 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 3: to live with that not being reconciled. And then the 271 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 3: time is crucial as well. The scriptures say don't let 272 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 3: the sun go down on your wrath. You know, literally, 273 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 3: in one day with my wife and I, if we 274 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 3: have a disagreement or weird odds, one of us has 275 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 3: to cross the line. That's our saying. In a home 276 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 3: who's going to cross the line, And so we can't 277 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 3: go to bed angry or upset. Even last night I 278 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 3: had said something that, you know, hurt her feelings. You know, 279 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 3: I went to use the restroom. I saw she was 280 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 3: up reading. It's three in the morning. I got to 281 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 3: be up in five. I prioritize talking with her and 282 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 3: letting her know, hey, I'm sorry, that's not how I 283 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 3: meant it, and explaining that because I've learned like life 284 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 3: is too short to allow an interpretation to ruin a relationship, 285 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 3: and so I want to know exactly why you are 286 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 3: the way you are, so at least I can process, 287 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 3: you know, how to even you know, have this relationship 288 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 3: with you. 289 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean one thing about my father. For my memoir, 290 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: I did this for both of my parents. I interviewed 291 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: my mom extensively. I interviewed my father as well and 292 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: asked him about and I encourage people to do this, 293 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: especially when my memoir came out. Is that find out 294 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: about who your parents were before you ever came along. 295 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: That would be very informative. And so he told me 296 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: a lot of things that it was like, Okay, I 297 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: get it, but and this is actually a question. I'm 298 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: gonna save you for the other side of the break. 299 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: And I promised this wasn't going to turn into. 300 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: A look what you did. 301 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 3: Okay, it's so good. 302 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, but before I ask you this question, we just 303 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: going to take a very quick break and we'll be 304 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: right back with my therapy a session apparently. Okay, we 305 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: just stopped down real quick at thirty hours. That's a 306 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: good all right, here you go, three two one, okay. 307 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: So here's the question that I think people often struggle 308 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: with when it comes to not necessarily forgiveness, because you 309 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: can forgive somebody and not want to mess with him. 310 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, as how do you bridge 311 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: that relationship when there has not been accountability mm hm. 312 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 3: When accountability expand on that? What do you? 313 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 2: Okay? So this is what I mean. 314 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: So to your point about finding out about your parents' journey, 315 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: I did do that with him, and it was very 316 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: informative finding out like why drugs were attractive. I didn't 317 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: even know he lived out of I knew he lived 318 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: out of the state when I was conceived him of 319 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: my mom and moved to the Bay Area, but I 320 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: didn't know he. 321 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 2: Went out of the state. I believe after that, like, 322 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 2: I had no idea. 323 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: So he was just telling me about sort of his 324 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: path and course in life, and it was very interesting. 325 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: The hard part for me is that even with the 326 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: episode that I said about him going to Facebook talking 327 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: about what he didn't necessarily like didn't say anything I. 328 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 2: Said was untrue, but just what he didn't like is 329 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 2: he didn't say anything wrong with that. 330 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: I was like, let me tell you why that was 331 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: problematic that you did that. But it is kind of 332 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: a bit of a pattern, if you will, where he 333 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: will do these things and not understand why it is 334 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: an issue. And so it's hard for me to get 335 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: to the point of understanding your point of view or 336 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: maybe and even when it comes to talking about why 337 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: he wasn't there in my life, which I know why 338 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: it like, yes, drugs, he had a heroin addiction. That's 339 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: a serious issue, and so like I totally and completely 340 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 1: get that part of it. But even once he was 341 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: in my life. He was in my life in a 342 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: way that was just kind of surface level. And as 343 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: I told you, the part about me that was constantly 344 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,719 Speaker 1: kind of heartbreaking was that I always felt like I 345 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: was the one making the effort, Like why am I 346 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: always the one making the effort to see you, to 347 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: do this or whatever? Like why do I have to 348 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: spend money for you to come see me? And so 349 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: that's the part that I'm struggling with, you know, or 350 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: even you know growing up knowing like my mother and 351 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: I we faced some very volatile situations because of her 352 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: substance abuse, but going to him was never an option 353 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: at all, like from a never offered anything. And so 354 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to understand, like what, why were you 355 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: okay with that? 356 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 3: Did you ask him this? 357 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 2: So I didn't ask him that last question. 358 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: I realized that when it came out out of my mouth, 359 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: is that I never asked him. How there's this? It's 360 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: always an incident, right, And I write about this in 361 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 1: my book. So my mother I had a journal growing up, 362 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: and I wrote in the journal some very I was 363 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: very angry about my mother's drug use, which was unfolding 364 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: in front of my eyes. And what that was happening. 365 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: So I wrote some very unflattering things about her in 366 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: my journal. I've kept the journal since I was young. 367 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: My mother found the journal. She read the journal because 368 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: you know, black parents don't believe in privacy. I don't know, 369 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: so she read the journal and the frank is what 370 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: I could saying, is my mama, who my ass? And 371 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: she felt disrespected and she put all my stuff in 372 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,719 Speaker 1: the garbage bag and she dropped me off at my 373 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: father's job. He worked off the cast corridor at the 374 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:57,719 Speaker 1: Harbor Light Center. It used to be the Harbor Light 375 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: Center's not there anymore. It was a drug reability place. 376 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: My father was completely taken off guard about what had happened, 377 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: so he took me to my grandparents' house. He's called 378 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: my mother like when you coming to get her, blah 379 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah and all of that. But at 380 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: no point, not just with that incident, but when me 381 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: and my mom got evicted and others like. He was 382 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: never in a position to really do anything, and he 383 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: never like the idea of me ever at any point 384 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: living with him for a week could never have happened. 385 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: And I can respect that he had financial limitations. But 386 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: I got to be honest, I don't really get the 387 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: sys that he even wanted something like that or even 388 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: cared about something like that. And so I guess that 389 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: is and especially later in life when he faced financial difficulties, 390 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: he could come to me. 391 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 2: And I have been there for him when he has. 392 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: Faced some of these difficulties, and just the lopsidedness of 393 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 1: that always struck me. 394 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 2: It's like I could never depend on this man for. 395 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: Anything, but yet he knows anytime he needs to, he 396 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: could probably call me and ask me for money and 397 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: has so, and I've given it to him. And it's 398 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: just like I don't get this at all. It's like 399 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: it just it just felt very lopsided, like I'm the 400 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: one reaching out, I'm the one doing this, like I 401 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: don't get it. 402 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 3: Well, First to the accountability piece. You know, parents of 403 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 3: our generation, well their generation, they were taught but speak 404 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 3: when speak when spoken to. And so my mother, I 405 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 3: remember when I started caring for her when I got married. 406 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 3: She would get upset at me when I would hold 407 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 3: her responsible for some of her behavior that was unacceptable. 408 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 3: She would always say, but boy, I'm your mama. I said, well, no, right, 409 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 3: now you're dam Marie Crumb and you're wrong. I said, 410 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 3: let's talk through this, and so I would hold my 411 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 3: stance then and make her talk like, hey, you're doing 412 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 3: this wrong. You shouldn't treat this person that way. I 413 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 3: don't like the way you did this. And I always 414 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 3: was respectful because I have to honor her. But at 415 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 3: the same time, you know, love without truth is compromised, 416 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 3: so I had to let her know in a way 417 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 3: that was respectable. And so but their generation, they weren't 418 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 3: taught to communicate with their children in a way like 419 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 3: their human beings. It was simply almost like we were 420 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 3: not pest. But you know how you tell your dog 421 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 3: to do this and do this and do that, and 422 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 3: it's no talk back. But now parents are understanding like, no, 423 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 3: I need you to communicate. I need you to express 424 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 3: what you're feeling. You know, you would tell a boy 425 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 3: to shut up or don't cry, and then you wonder 426 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 3: why when he's in eighth grade he doesn't talk to 427 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 3: you about his problems. And so that generation of parenting, 428 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 3: which I often call fear based parenting, it didn't leave 429 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 3: room for us as children to really have a relationship 430 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 3: with them. So they don't really know what that's like. 431 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 3: I believe our generation is the first like parenting generation 432 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 3: where we could actually have that type of relationship with 433 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,959 Speaker 3: our children, where we would treat them like human beings 434 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 3: and once they get to that stage where they can 435 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 3: actually comprehend what we're saying. You know, I talked to 436 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 3: my son like he was an adult. When I think 437 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 3: Jason was like ten years old, I started communicating with him. 438 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 3: I didn't really like the whole hard hand type of 439 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 3: discipline that many fathers have. I'm like, no, I would. 440 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 3: I should be able to communicate with my son and 441 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 3: your father at his age. My father died at seventy seven. 442 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 3: He didn't have that capacity. My sister has some of 443 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 3: the same issues you have with your father that she 444 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 3: has with our dad because men back then didn't tap 445 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 3: into the nurturing side. They didn't tap into that being 446 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 3: very transparent and openly lovingly. I mean not a lot 447 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 3: of men. Some fathers did, and maybe your father was 448 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 3: just wired that way. And so that's why I was saying, 449 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 3: did you ask him like, why does it seem like 450 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 3: I have to always pursue you? Why don't you do this? 451 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 3: You gotta remember, but no one's in mind read. That's 452 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 3: one of the most valuable lessons I learned from my 453 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 3: psychotherapy sessions is, especially in marriage, say what you need 454 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 3: instead of just waiting for someone to respond and then 455 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 3: now you holding bitterness or you're angry. It's like, no, 456 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,719 Speaker 3: I want you to know. This is what I feel, 457 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 3: and this is what I need from this relationship, and 458 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 3: I would like to know why aren't you given this 459 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 3: to me? And it's just something I'm doing that's preventing me. 460 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 3: And so I would say, give your father the opportunity 461 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 3: to right is wrong. And you know, I was in 462 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 3: a situation where I didn't have an opportunity to right 463 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 3: my wrong and it hurts because I'm not a mind reader. 464 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 3: I didn't know my actions offended and hurt my son 465 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 3: the way they did. I just would I'm real big 466 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 3: on correction. Give me an opportunity to right my wrong 467 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 3: and maybe that's what your father needs. And then, you know, 468 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 3: and having a person in the middle, like a psychotherapist, 469 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 3: preferably someone who can help him dig a little deeper, 470 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 3: could help both of you flush this out in a 471 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 3: way where there's no condemnation, but only compassion and communication. 472 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean getting to ask would be willing 473 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 3: to have a session with you and say, hey, Dad, 474 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 3: I don't want to let any more time lapse between us. 475 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 3: I want to see you and would you be open 476 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 3: for me and you just to talk in front of 477 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 3: a counselor or therapist and see what he says. 478 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: That is a great suggestion and I will give that 479 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: some serious thought. And as I said, that is why 480 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: that chapter in your book really resonated with me, because 481 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: it made for the first time in three years, think about, well, 482 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: maybe this probably isn't the healthiest way to get with 483 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: It's I been like, I'm just never talking to you again. 484 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, if it feels safe. But you know, but how 485 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 3: we you know, I guess this is my background in 486 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 3: the combative arts. We're trained to see the outcome before 487 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 3: it happens, because every time you punch people don't realize 488 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 3: every time you punch it someone, you're open and get hit. 489 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 3: And so I'm like, okay, is this the best decision 490 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 3: long run for me? And I'm losing so much time. 491 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,959 Speaker 3: And I can't say this guy's name because you know him. 492 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 3: He's really popular. But he and I had talked when 493 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 3: I was in La, and he felt really bad about 494 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 3: denying his father an opportunity to see him. And before 495 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 3: when he was considering going to see his dad, his 496 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 3: father died and I told him it was We had 497 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 3: a really beautiful conversation, and I said, you know, you 498 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 3: would have been there if he wouldn't have done this. 499 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 3: That was liberating to him because he was holding onto 500 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 3: misplaced gill. He was just only responding to the way 501 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 3: his father had treated him or not treated him. So 502 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 3: that's what you're doing. But now that you know that, 503 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 3: who's going to cross the line. There's the principal again. 504 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 3: I refuse to allow the enemy to win. I want 505 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 3: to win. I don't want to lose. I got so much. 506 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 3: If I'm telling you, if I could go back, I 507 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 3: would record my father the same way I did my mother. 508 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 3: Every conversation we would have, I would record and just 509 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 3: hear her heart and those things I play to this day. 510 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 3: And so don't deny him. But most important, he says, 511 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 3: don't deny yourself of the love you long to receive 512 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 3: from your father. This is that love you know would 513 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 3: and never give you. I can't give you, your friends 514 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 3: can't give you. That can only come from your father, 515 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 3: and so I'm saying, you know, walk through that door 516 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 3: and at least exhaust all of your options. So if 517 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 3: it doesn't happen, you can say, well, I gave it 518 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 3: my all. 519 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 2: OUI chew on that all right, We're done with me. 520 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: Politics is the production of iHeart Podcast and the Unbothered Network. 521 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: I'm your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakogine. 522 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: Lucas Hyman is head of audio and executive producer. Original 523 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: music Politics provided by Coyle vist from wiz FX