1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: On August sixteenth, nineteen eighty one, gunshots sprayed into Chicago's 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: Petrowsky Park. Three young people were hit and two of 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: them died. The victims were affiliated with the Latin Kings, 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: and witnesses identified two alleged members of the two. 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 2: Sixth Street gang, But. 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: When one went missing and the other was to be 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: tried as a juvenile, the police targeted the alleged gang leadership, 8 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: amassing witness testimony about an alleged meeting held by eighteen 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: year old David Ayala and his cousin Jimmy Soto, who 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: were both sent away for life. But this is wrongful conviction. 11 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: Wrongful conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison, 12 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us 13 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: at eight three three two oh seven four six sixty six. 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 2: Tell us how these. 15 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: Stories make you feel and what you've done to help 16 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: the cause, even if it's something as simple as telling 17 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: a friend or sharing on social media, and you might 18 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: just hear yourself in a future episode. Call us A 19 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: three three two oh seven four. 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 2: Six sixty six. 21 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. Today we're interviewing David Ayala, 22 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: who served more time than anyone else wrongfully convicted in 23 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: the history of the state that probably has more wrongful 24 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: convictions than any other state in this crazy country of ours. 25 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: I'm talking about Illinois. Forty two years in prison for 26 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: a crime. I think they should have known at a 27 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: minimum from the beginning that he had nothing to do 28 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: with it. And before we get into the story, first 29 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: of all, I want to introduce the man himself, a 30 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: hero of mine and so many other people. 31 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: David Ayala, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. 32 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 3: Thank you for the warm welcome. 33 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: And I'm so glad you're here. And I'm so glad 34 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: you're free, finally free. It's sort of a miracle. And 35 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: the miracle is in those small part due to our 36 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: other guests today I name people who are fans of 37 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: the show or just fans of justice. Will recognize Jennifer 38 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: boninga bojin Lag group. Jennifer, welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. 39 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me back. 40 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: And I know you're excited to be here to talk 41 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: about this guy, right yeah. So, David, I want to 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: get to know you first though, before we talk about 43 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: what happened to you. You grew up in the Chicago area, 44 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: right yeah. 45 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 5: I grew up on the southwest side of Chicago, an 46 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 5: area known as Little Village, predominantly Mexican American working class. 47 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 5: My home was my parents, three brothers, and my sister. 48 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 5: We went to Catholic grade school and then at the 49 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 5: age of nine, my parents divorced and my siblings chose 50 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 5: to go with my mother. And I was always especially 51 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 5: close to my father, so I decided to go to 52 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 5: my father. So we relocated to another part of Little Village. 53 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 5: It's good neighborhood. There was also gangs there, unfortunately, but 54 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 5: other than that, it was sort of a normal childhood. 55 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: But a normal childhood during this time in Chicago meant 56 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: gang affiliation based on location, regardless of involvement, and for David, 57 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 1: that was the two sixth Street gang. In our experience, 58 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: gang affiliation has served as more than enough motivation for 59 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: Cook County Police. The target young man like David and 60 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: his cousin Jimmy Soto, but David stood out even more. 61 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 5: My best friend was dating the daughter of the police 62 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 5: commander of that local police district who didn't like who 63 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 5: his daughter was dating, and he was like my best friend. 64 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 5: He was always with me, and so that commander put 65 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 5: the word out. We see these guys give them the treatment. 66 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 5: The treatment consists of pulling you over without probable call, 67 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 5: searching your car. Twice, they took me to the rival 68 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 5: neighborhood land King neighborhood, left me there a block away 69 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 5: from the groups of these land Kings and told them 70 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 5: you got one down the block and I had to 71 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 5: run away, so twice they put my life in jeopardy. 72 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 5: They will harassed me so much. I fillowed a complaint 73 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 5: with the Office of Professional Standards and I was coming 74 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 5: back from that actual police station where I registered my 75 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 5: complaint and the same group officers pulled me over. I 76 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 5: had the papers that I had to sign registering the 77 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 5: complaint and they're all passing that paperwork around and they 78 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 5: hated me from that point on. They're like, Okay, you're 79 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 5: gonna file a complaint on us watch and they actually 80 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 5: used that word watch and I didn't have to wait 81 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 5: very long to watch. 82 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 3: Picked me up for anything. 83 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 5: You're standing in front of your house, disorader conduct and 84 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 5: you're not even drinking anything. And it was just constant harassment. 85 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 5: After being harassed, I was cocky with them. Don't you 86 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 5: guys got anything better to do than harass me. Every 87 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 5: single time go saw some crimes, I would advise it 88 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 5: strongly not to be that way with the officers. One 89 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 5: thing I learned about the police officers in Chicago you 90 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 5: never want to route of their cage. 91 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 3: You will become a target. 92 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: And since David and his cousin Jimmy were often seeing together, 93 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: they both were targets. Which brings us to August sixteenth, 94 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one Petrowski Park, which was allegedly the territory 95 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: of the two sixth Street gang rivals of the Latin Kings, 96 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: and shots were fired into the park from a walkway, 97 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: hitting three young people, sixteen year old Julie Limis, eighteen 98 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: year old Hector Valleriano, and nineteen year old Wan Padilla. Tragically, 99 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: one was the only one who survived out of the gate. 100 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 4: The Chicago Police Department assumed, and not necessarily unjustly, that 101 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,119 Speaker 4: this was a gang related shooting. The victims were associated 102 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 4: purportedly with the Latin King Street gang. 103 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: And according to the surviving victim, Juan Padia and his 104 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: friend Mario Abarca, shortly before the shooting, a Chicago Animal 105 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: Control van flashed its lights into the park and an 106 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: employee of that agency. Twenty year old JJ Rojas was 107 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: identified as was his friend sixteen year old Victor Rodriguez, 108 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: and later on the name Wally Cruz was thrown in 109 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: the mix, but initially it was just the Jeuve Rodriguez 110 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: and JJ Rojas. 111 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 5: Moments before this shooting happened, numerous witness identified JJ Rojas 112 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 5: in the van flashing his light on the crowd, and 113 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 5: after the shooting happened, Lo and behold, he doesn't report 114 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 5: to work the next day, He's off the face of 115 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 5: the map and is gone. 116 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 3: And it's still gone to this very day. 117 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: Rodriguez, who was arrested on October fifth, about a month 118 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: and a half after the crime, rejuvenile court judge for 119 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: some reason refused to grant the prosecution motion to move 120 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: his case to adult court, and he was released. 121 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 2: I don't know. 122 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just going to speculate and say, maybe 123 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: they wanted a bigger fish. 124 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: He was a sixteen year old kid. 125 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: They probably wouldn't have been able to get him for 126 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: life or death sentence or whatever they were trying to 127 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:46,559 Speaker 1: get out of this case. 128 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 4: So instead of saying it's possible that Victor Rodriguez JJ 129 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 4: Rojas or Wally Cruz on their own committed a crime. 130 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 4: They decided, no, it's not important enough to get the 131 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 4: right people. They decided, we're going to use it as 132 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 4: an opportunity to frame two people who we believe are 133 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 4: high ranking gang members in the two six Streak gang. 134 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 4: And they had their eyes on David Ayala. David was 135 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 4: only eighteen himself. He was in their crosshairs and his 136 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 4: cousin was Jimmy Soto, who they perceived as this right 137 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 4: hand man, so they became the prime suspects. Now they 138 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 4: knew that David Iyola was nowhere near the seam, so 139 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 4: they could only get him if he was calling the shots. 140 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 4: And the way they did it was like rounding up 141 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 4: juveniles then coercing them to regurgitate the narrative that was 142 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 4: being fed to them. 143 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 5: And my particular case happened during aorial election and one 144 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 5: of the platforms of the candidates was to make crime. 145 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 5: You know, their platform, they're going to solve this case. 146 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 5: And young people were abused, physically abused, mental abuse, They 147 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 5: were deny their rights, deny their parents, they were lied to. 148 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 3: This was a terrible abuse of our civil rights. 149 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 4: They went so far as to in some cases charged 150 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 4: them with obstruction of justice, and in order to essentially 151 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 4: get their obstruction of justice charge dismissed, they had to 152 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 4: get on the bandwagon of the story that the Chicago 153 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 4: Police Department wanted them to tell, and the story was 154 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 4: that there had been some gang meeting at David Ayala's 155 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 4: house earlier that they were all present for. 156 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: Ultimately, nine young men who were allegedly affiliated with the 157 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 1: two six Street gang were indicted, including the four that 158 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: were brought to trial, David and Jimmy, as well as 159 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: David's cousin Reuben Palomo and eighteen year old Wally Gator Cruz, 160 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: the last of whom ended up testifying against his co 161 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: defendants in exchange for you guests at leniency. This narrative 162 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: continued that by about six pm, all but the four 163 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: co defendants had left David's house when a phone call 164 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: alerted them that the Latin Kings were in Petrovsky Park. 165 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: Cruise said that he was ordered to start David's dark 166 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: blue band. 167 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 5: I've never owned a dark blue van in my life. 168 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 5: And here's the funny part about it. The police went 169 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 5: and asked my neighbors does David have a van? Have 170 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 5: you ever seen a van here? And the neighbors confirmed, 171 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 5: I've never had a van. They've never seen a van. 172 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 5: The only event that really came up conclusively was the 173 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 5: animal control van, but we were taking into custody October fifteen, 174 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 5: nineteen eighty one. 175 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this 176 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early 177 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus 178 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. The state's narrative continued that Cruz allegedly's 179 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: roven armed Jimmy Soto and Ruben Palomo to Petrowsky Park, 180 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: where they first encountered two young women, Isabelle gone Mez 181 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: and Lisa Suarez, who told them that the Latin Kings 182 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: were still in the park. Then they spoke againic allegedly 183 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: with JJ Rojas and Victor Rodriguez, before pulling into an 184 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: alley near the park, where Jimmy and Rubin allegedly exited 185 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: the van with a rifle and a handgun, and Cruise 186 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: heard gunshots. Then the pair returned to the van saying quote, 187 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: we might have hit somebody, and the three sped back 188 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: to David's house, where David allegedly received a phone call 189 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: confirming two fatalities, and they were put on trial in 190 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: September nineteen eighty two, where the state supported cruise with 191 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: a parade of witnesses. 192 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 4: Well, there were a parade of witnesses that didn't have 193 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 4: really even that much to say. Frankly, there were witnesses 194 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 4: who testified about the shooting what they saw, but not 195 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,719 Speaker 4: any identification testimony, nothing that would suggest that these defendants 196 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 4: were the people responsible. There was a lot of time 197 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 4: spent on the crime itself, which was clearly horrific, but 198 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 4: designed to a flame the passions of the jury, and 199 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 4: that's all fair game, but when it came down to 200 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 4: the actual evidence, it was scammed. 201 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: But let's just talk about one Isabelle Gomez, right, She 202 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: testified she was in the park with her friend Suarez 203 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: prior to the shooting. She recalled that one of those 204 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: president was a guy named Mario Abarca who was a 205 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: member of the Latin King. She said that she and 206 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: Suarez left and she saw Suarez make a phone call 207 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: that Suarez said she had called Ayala's home. Now it 208 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: goes on that they saw Cruz and Palomo. She said 209 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: Cruz was driving a dark blue van and Palomo was 210 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: in the pastor seat. She couldn't see if anyone else 211 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: was in the rear seat. Goma said that Palomo asked 212 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: who was in the park, and she told him that 213 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: Ebarca was there. She said the cruise drove off toward 214 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: the park and she later heard gunshots. Now, during cross examination, 215 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: get this this is the key, right. So she said 216 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: that about two or three weeks after the shooting, police 217 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: came to her home to interview her. The detectives came 218 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: every two or three days, and she said the officers 219 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 1: threatened her. They told her, quote, we are going to 220 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: take you to the park. We are going to tell 221 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: all the people there that you'd set them up, so 222 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: similar to what they were doing to you before, David. 223 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: They were going to drop her off in a place 224 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: where she would likely be killed or who knows what. 225 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 5: They're going to take her to the Lang King so 226 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 5: she get raped. So I wasn't angry with her because 227 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 5: her experience of what she had to endure as a 228 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 5: young girl should never have happened. 229 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: In addition, Isabelle Gomez said that she and Suarez had 230 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: initially been charged with the murders, but those charges were 231 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: swapped for obstruction of justice charges that would remain until 232 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: after they testified. The state also put on a guy 233 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: named John Erosco, who testified about seeing the animal control 234 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: van that he knew Rojas usually drove, but that he 235 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: said he thought it was a different dark blue van 236 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: that rolled up at the time of the shooting. He 237 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: and the surviving victim, want Padia, testified that they hadn't 238 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: seen the gunman. 239 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 4: When push came to shove. The only witness who ultimately 240 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 4: implicated David and Jimmy was this highly incentivized co defendant, 241 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 4: Wally Cruz, who had negotiated a deal with the state 242 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 4: to testify against them in exchange for a five year sentence. 243 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 4: Maybe he was actually involved, Maybe he was just afraid 244 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 4: that they would falsely accuse him. It's unclear why he 245 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 4: did this, but we do know that the testimony was 246 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 4: false and he got a sweetheart deal because of it. 247 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 5: He says, we had this gang meeting at my house, 248 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 5: and he names these people being there, and we were 249 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 5: able to show it's impossible for these people to have 250 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 5: been at this meeting as he indicated. 251 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 4: The defense did a very good job of showing this 252 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 4: gang meeting never happened. One kid that initially said was 253 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 4: at the gang meeting was actually in a juvenile facility 254 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 4: locked up at the time of the alleged gang meeting. 255 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 4: So if that's not evidence of coercion, I don't know 256 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,719 Speaker 4: what is. Another kid was in the hospital. There were 257 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 4: medical records showing he was literally in the hospital at 258 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 4: the time the alleged meeting took place. 259 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: Now Alex Gomez was the one who was in Jeuvie 260 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: and Robert Ba Gomez was the one at the hospital. 261 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: Javier Yakez was at home, Tyrone Ayala was at his mother's. 262 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: Jimmy Sodo's sister Martha, and his girlfriend Diana were at 263 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: David's house that night and they testified that no gang 264 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: meeting took place and neither David nor Jimmy ever left 265 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: the home. In addition, there was Elisa Orosco and Carol 266 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: Choppa who both testified the Cruz told them that he 267 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: planned to falsely testify a trial, but. 268 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 4: The prosecutions just like they're all gang members and they're 269 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 4: all liars. You can't believe any of them, but you 270 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 4: can believe this one gang member Wally Cruz, who we 271 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 4: just gave a kiss to in exchange for participating in 272 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 4: this murder. So it really did turn on Cruz's testimony, 273 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 4: which again was highly incentivized. 274 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 5: What point of our trial when the jury was excused, 275 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 5: the state attorney turned syrus. 276 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 3: He gave me the middle finger. 277 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 5: I was naive to think that justice would prevent because 278 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 5: of evidence. But they were not emphasizing the evidence. They 279 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 5: were emphasizing the gang factor. If you want the gangs 280 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 5: to run your city streets, find these men innocent. If 281 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 5: you want a secure neighborhood, they have to be found guilty. 282 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: So finally, September thirtieth, nineteen eighty two, after eight hours 283 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: of deliberation, the jury came back and reported that they 284 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: were deadlocked on all but one charge against you and 285 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: your cousin, Jimmy Soto. 286 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 4: Judges have a way of coercing verdicts, shall we say, 287 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 4: They have a way of signaling through instructions, through all 288 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 4: types of means. Go back, keep deliberating, keep deliberating, bring 289 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 4: us back a verdict. And jurors of human beings, they 290 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 4: get fatigued. They read the tea leaves. They get the 291 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 4: impression that their job is to come back, and in 292 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 4: this case, to come back and convict I think deadlocked 293 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 4: or not. There was probably fewer people on the not 294 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 4: guilty side than the guilty side, which is typically the case. 295 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 5: The bailiff was a pretty nice guy. He seen what 296 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 5: was happening in our court room. He kind of empathized 297 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 5: with us, and he told me the air ventilation in 298 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 5: the jury room is malfunctioning. There's miserable conditions in that 299 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 5: jury room. And so when the jury foreman told the 300 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 5: judge that he couldn't reach a verdict their deadlocked, the 301 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 5: judge and tone to them, well, you're going to go 302 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 5: back and I'm sure you're going. 303 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 3: To reach a verdict, or you could keep deliberating. 304 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 5: And then all of a sudden, miraculously, forty five minutes 305 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 5: later or whatever it was, they reached a vertict you 306 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 5: not misus verdict. They all averted their eyes, every single 307 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 5: one of them had their eyes down. 308 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 4: And so ultimately David Aila and Jimmy Soto are convicted 309 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 4: in this grave miscarriage of justice in which they both 310 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 4: are sentenced to mandatory life sentences. 311 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 5: My brain like blew a gasket. I wasn't like shouting out, Oh, 312 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 5: how did this happen? I was just like stupefied, How 313 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 5: could this possibly happen? The whole spirit inside of me 314 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 5: was just like vacuumed out. My attorney came back and said, 315 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 5: we're going to feel this. 316 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 3: And forty two years. 317 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 4: Past, David Ayala, for no reason other than his perceived status, 318 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 4: not because he was a difficult prisoner or had a 319 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 4: bad disciplinary history or anything of that nature, was shipped 320 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 4: off the TAMS the minute it was opened, which was 321 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 4: the supermax facility that has since been shut down as 322 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 4: human rights violation, violation of Eighth Amendment, cruel and unusual conditions, 323 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 4: where he spent literally seven years in isolation, seventeen years 324 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 4: without a phone call, no human contact. 325 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 5: We went literally years with the same people on the 326 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 5: tie they call it, and it's five sales upstairs, five 327 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 5: sales downstairs. Were I never saw that person face, I 328 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 5: heard his voice. I had no idea what he could 329 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 5: look like. They always put a mentally ild person on 330 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 5: Earth Tier, and instead of them getting a treatment, they 331 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 5: were locked in their cells and made it worse. And 332 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 5: so now they're hearing voices and everything. And he'd make 333 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 5: noise all night, and I noticed there was a recipe 334 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 5: for coping with it, and there was a recipe for disaster, 335 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 5: a recipe for maintaining your sanity. I found what was 336 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 5: working for me and others was seeing sleep hours, meditate, prey, 337 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 5: have an exercise routine. The yard is a misnomer. It 338 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 5: was not a yard. I went seventeen years without stepping 339 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 5: on earth or seeing a blade of grass. It was 340 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 5: a concrete box that you couldn't even run laps the 341 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 5: stay in shape because you run three steps, you have 342 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,719 Speaker 5: to turn. That's how small that area was. But at 343 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 5: least you could have fresh air. They had these high 344 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 5: concrete walls. All you saw was concrete walls. Your other 345 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 5: view was to look at the sky and see at 346 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 5: barbed wire and chaining fence. So everything was a reminder 347 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 5: you're in prison. And the people that weren't doing those 348 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 5: things were the people that were the most frustrated, screaming out, 349 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 5: lashing out, they losing their minds. 350 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 4: I have one other client who spent a lot of 351 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 4: time there. It is not anything that any of us 352 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 4: can wrap our heads around. But as far as I know, David, 353 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 4: I was there the day it was opened and the 354 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 4: day it was closed he, I think, not only has 355 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 4: the unfortunate circumstance of being one of the men who 356 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 4: has served the longest wrongful conviction in the history of Illinois, 357 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 4: but also served the longest time at TAM's supermacs in 358 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 4: complete isolation, which frankly, I don't know how he even 359 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 4: functions to this day. 360 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 5: I would like to think that I overcame my conditions, 361 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 5: but I really didn't, because to this day there's triggers, 362 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 5: tears come out just remembering the horrible experience. And so 363 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 5: when there was a movement to close TAMS based on 364 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 5: the effects that was having, the mental deterioration of the inmates, 365 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 5: the cost, and there was a movement to close the prison, 366 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 5: the local officer union threatened the judge. They put a 367 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 5: court injunction to keep the prison open, and they told 368 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 5: the judge, listen, you were your constituents. In six months, 369 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 5: you're for reelection. If you closed this prison, we're going 370 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 5: to vote you out office. But he had no recourse 371 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 5: to keep that prison open when the governor of the 372 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 5: state of Illinois and the prison director said that prison 373 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 5: has to be closed. 374 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 3: The prison has to be closed. 375 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: In those nearly first two long decades, David's cousin, Jimmy Soto, 376 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: became a legendary jailhouse lawyer at Stateville Penitentiary, and he 377 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: was responsible for sending so many other innocent men home. 378 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 1: But somehow though, he couldn't develop that kind of traction 379 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: for himself and for David, whose cases were, let's face it, 380 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: inextectably lengthd Meanwhile, in the years following the closure of 381 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,959 Speaker 1: the TAMS facility, David was not reunited with Jimmy. 382 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 4: Illinois has a agreement with other states that if we 383 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 4: have a high profile prisoner or someone that we believe 384 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 4: should be outside the state doing their time because of 385 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,239 Speaker 4: some reason, they will have them doing time elsewhere. And 386 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 4: David fell into that category because the Illinois Department of Corrections, 387 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 4: whether it was justified or not, whether it was based 388 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 4: in fact or not, had designated David as high ranking 389 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 4: a chief. You know, they have all types of labels, 390 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 4: and once they have put that label on you, you are 391 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 4: stuck with it. So he did all of his time 392 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 4: in Utah. It was extraordinarily difficult, not just for his 393 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 4: mental state, but also just being able to, for instance, 394 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 4: keep up with your appeals and access to courts in 395 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 4: Illinois was so difficult. He's either in isolation or out 396 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 4: well outside the state of Illinois, communication, etc. So over 397 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 4: the forty two years that he was fighting this case, 398 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 4: he had additional challenges that even other prisoners would. 399 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: Not have, so appeal after appeal were denied. First denied 400 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: in eighty six by the First District of ILLINOI Appellate Court. 401 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 1: In ninety one, Jimmy acting without a lawyer while the 402 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: post conviction pro se petition legend his child defense attorney 403 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: pridate inadequate legal defense. The lawyer had failed to call 404 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: six other witnesses who would have testified the cruise live, 405 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: but they said they were at your house for the 406 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: gang meeting. Petition will go do other things. But nonetheless 407 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: the petition was dismissed. 408 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 4: And I'm familiar with Jimmy's case too, the way that 409 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 4: the system handled his post conviction petitions. They lingered on 410 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 4: for decades, up and down the courts, back and up 411 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 4: to the appellate court, back down, judge screws up again, 412 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 4: goes up. I mean, we're talking decades of just colossal mistakes. 413 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 4: But eventually David and Jimmy find themselves. In twenty fifteen, 414 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 4: back in the circuit court on a post conviction petition 415 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 4: on claims of actual innocence. Perge your testimony in effective 416 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 4: assistance a council, and there's a strong body of support 417 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 4: for these claims. 418 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: The petitions contained numerous affidavits from witnesses identifying the actual 419 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: gunman as here we go again, Victor Rodriguez and JJ Rojas. 420 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: Some of them recounted that police officers had slapped and 421 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: hit them until they agreed to say that this meeting, 422 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: this phantom meeting, had taken place. Robert jack Quiz, for instance, 423 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: said police told him that unless he signed a statement, 424 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: he would go to jail for the rest of his life. 425 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: He also said that he had spoken with Cruise after 426 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: Cruise was released from prison, that Cruise admitted to him 427 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: that he had falsely implicated you guys. 428 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 2: It goes on and on. 429 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: Isabelle Gomez wrote an affid David that the prosecutor had 430 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: told her exactly what to say to the grand jury, 431 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 1: and she said that the detectives told me if I 432 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: didn't cooperate, I would be charged with murder. She went 433 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: on to say, this is a quote. The detectives told me. 434 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: If I didn't cooperate, they would drop me off by 435 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: the Latin Kings so they could rape me. At this point, 436 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: I was so frightened and confused that I felt I 437 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 1: had no choice but to testify as to what I 438 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: was told. I didn't want to be charged with murder 439 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: or harmed by the Latin Kings end quote. 440 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 4: And the judge ultimately denies them an evidentiary hearing, which 441 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 4: was I'm sure a low point for David. I'm sure 442 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 4: it was a low point for Jimmy. And then they 443 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 4: had to go back up to the appellate court. God 444 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 4: knows how many times it was at this juncture. I 445 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 4: stepped into the case. At that point, with my colleagues 446 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 4: over there at Lov and Lov, who now represent Jimmy, 447 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 4: we were able to get the case reversed and sent 448 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 4: back to the judge for an evidentiary hearing, both on 449 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 4: actual innocence and in effective assistance a council. 450 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 5: Jennifer told me, she said, listen, the state is indicating 451 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 5: that they're not going to contest our petition and they 452 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 5: just have to go through the procedures to the levels 453 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 5: of the state's attorney's office. And so we had, like 454 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 5: I don't know four, maybe five continuances. 455 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 4: We were sweating it out to the last minute, right. 456 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 5: David test to understatement, He's really an understatement. It was 457 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 5: a emotional, mental, spiritual roller coaster. I made the rookie 458 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 5: mistake of a prisoner where you count down the days 459 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 5: and you say to yourself, this is going to be 460 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 5: the final day. And my friends that were touching with 461 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 5: my family, they were like, well, we want to take 462 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 5: you to this comedy event on this date here. 463 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 3: My court day was a week before that. 464 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 5: I daydreamed and I fantasized in my mind, I'm going 465 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 5: to be at that event. Well, we went to court 466 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 5: another continuance. So that night when I was counting on 467 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 5: going to that event, I was listing to my cell 468 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,479 Speaker 5: looking at the ceiling, saying, okay, well, this is going 469 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 5: to be clear by the next time. The next time, 470 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 5: I was saying, I want to be out there for 471 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 5: my daughter's birthday. 472 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 3: I'm going to celebrate. I'm going to have a father 473 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 3: daughter dance. And it hadn't cleared yet. 474 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 4: And the good part of the story is that eventually, 475 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 4: although they made us sweat it out for a very 476 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 4: long time, the Cook County State's Attorney's office ultimately threw 477 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 4: in the towel, could not proceed in good faith after 478 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 4: all of these years, and agree that David and Jimmy 479 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 4: were both entitled to post conviction relief, and then ultimately 480 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 4: dismissed all charges against them. And even then the judge 481 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 4: almost didn't want to do it. 482 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 5: The judge was given like this long spill of what 483 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 5: was presented before him. He doesn't have to rubber stamp anything, 484 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 5: and this and that, And after this long spill, he said, 485 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 5: in light of the state's attorney position, or vacate the 486 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 5: sentence and then it's over with. 487 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 3: I was like, wow, did this really just happen. 488 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 5: When you go to court, you have supporters there and 489 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 5: the jubilant and they want to scream and they want 490 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 5: to reach you to Heaven, pump the fish in the air. 491 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 5: But when you're dealing with a cantigerous judge, you can't 492 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 5: even express an outburst of joy because you get reprimanded. 493 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 5: You just imagine, after forty two years of wrong for imprisonment, 494 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 5: you awarded your freedom and you can't even scream out 495 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 5: a joyous exclamation. 496 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 3: But I felt it. I felt it in my spirit. 497 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 4: So when they finally vacated his convictions and he's going 498 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 4: to be released. That night he came to my law 499 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 4: from this Christmas party. 500 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: I was lucky to meet you at that wonderful celebration 501 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: we had in Chicago. I was just looking at the 502 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 1: picture on my phone that we took. I think you 503 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: were wearing a Bonging Law Group long sleeved t shirt 504 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: because it was December in Chicago, and yeah it with 505 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: a big smile. 506 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 2: On your face, and oh yeah, yeah. 507 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: It was just so great to be with you and 508 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: Jimmy and Jennifer and the whole team. It's a moment 509 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: I won't forget. So what was it like when you 510 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: finally breathed free air? 511 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 5: Well, when I was finally released, everything was wondrous to me. 512 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 5: Everything was wondrous, just looking on the street and seeing 513 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 5: lights and everything and people walking, pedestrians walking. And after 514 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 5: I got out of prison about a month later, my 515 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 5: brother in law, my sister and him have two dogs 516 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 5: and they asked me if I can walk the dog. 517 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 5: Seeing the dogs stiff on the ground, I was thinking 518 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 5: to myself, I wonder what that dog's thinking, and my 519 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 5: brother and dog's just trying to rush. He wanted to 520 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 5: get home by I'm like, let's take a second, let 521 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 5: me enjoy this here, and he said, okay, he got it. 522 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 5: He finally understood. I seen the squirrels running round. And 523 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 5: you know when we went to New Orleans as part 524 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 5: of the Innocence Conference and we're on a boat and 525 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 5: I was looking at the moon like these things touched 526 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 5: me deeply to see a moon because for years in prison, 527 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 5: I didn't see a move. 528 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 3: So there are blessings now after that experience. 529 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 2: I imagine everything is just I can't imagine. I can't 530 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 2: even say can imagine. I can't imagine. It's it's just 531 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 2: I'm just so happy that you're here. 532 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: I wish you all the best of everything now, today, tomorrow, 533 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: and for the rest of your life. And we're going 534 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: to have a link in the episode description to a 535 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: GoFundMe that was set up for David. I hope that 536 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: our listeners will join me in donating to help him 537 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: get back on his feet. And with that, I want 538 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: to turn to my favorite part of the show, which 539 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: is called closing arguments, and it works like this. First 540 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: of all, thank you Jennifer David. And now I'm going 541 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: to pick back in my chair, and close my eyes 542 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,719 Speaker 1: and just listen to anything that you think is left unset. 543 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 2: So Jennifer, tradition holds you go first. 544 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: And then this is David's show, and I want him 545 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: to take us off into the sunset. 546 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 2: So Jennifer, over to you. 547 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 4: David is an incredible person. I've really enjoyed getting to 548 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 4: know him and what he's endured. I can't even wrap 549 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 4: my head around. And after he was released from Cook 550 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 4: County Jail, he had this beautiful gift made for me, 551 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 4: which is the T shirt that David was wearing when 552 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 4: he got released from prison from Cook County Jail. He 553 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 4: had it framed and on it it says to Jennifer Bonjeing, 554 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 4: I wore this Cook County Jail T shirt as part 555 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,479 Speaker 4: of my Cook County Jail uniform while facing Judge Joyce 556 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 4: on December fourteenth, twenty twenty three, the day you secured 557 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 4: my freedom. You and your excellent law group put an 558 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 4: end of forty two years of wrongful imprisonment. I am 559 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 4: eternally grateful to you with my love and admiration. David Ayala, 560 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 4: So even in the mix of it all, even though 561 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 4: he had no need to do something so special, it 562 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 4: really is special to me. So that's why it's hanging 563 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 4: on my office wall. 564 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 5: For me now after this horrible experience, Like people ask me, 565 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 5: am I bitter? 566 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 3: Am I resentful? 567 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 5: No, because like my mind is taking in new experiences 568 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 5: like walking the dog was a new experience, having an 569 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 5: umbrella in the rain. Tomato sister put a tomato on 570 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 5: the table and I was like, this is beautiful tomato. 571 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 5: She's like, it's a tomato, Dude. To you, it's a tomato. 572 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 5: You go years in prison. I seeing a full tomato. 573 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 5: You're so grateful for these things. I recently started working. 574 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 5: I work twelve hour shifts from six o'clock in the 575 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 5: morning six o'clock at night. I have friends that are 576 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 5: retiring at this age. I'll be sixty one next month. 577 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 5: I should have had a nestache, but when I got 578 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 5: my paycheck, I felt proud. This is something ironed as 579 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 5: a man, and so these things that everybody else so 580 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 5: you won't think twice of it. 581 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 3: It's like it's an incredible experience for me. 582 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 5: And I think, if there's any blessing in this, I 583 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 5: was given this deep sense of gratitude. 584 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 3: It's just it's wondrous to me. 585 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 5: It's just like I have a deep sense of gratitude 586 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 5: to have my freedom now after losing all those decades 587 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 5: in prison. 588 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen 589 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one 590 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on 591 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team Connor 592 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive 593 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Watis, and Jeff Cliber. The music 594 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated 595 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across all 596 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: social media platforms at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. 597 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: You can also follow me on Instagram at It's Jason Flamm. 598 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction is auction of Lava for Good Podcasts in 599 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one