1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to zero. I'm Mukshatrati. This week thin ice, missing 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: snow and a party for billionaires. Next week I'll be 3 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: going to Davos, a ski resort town in Switzerland. But 4 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: I'm not telling you about my holiday. Is that one 5 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: week in January where Davos becomes the home of the 6 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: World Economic Forum's annual meeting, an invite only gathering of CEOs, billionaires, 7 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: select political leaders, and increasingly climate people. That's not always 8 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: been the case. As recently as twenty fourteen, climate didn't 9 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: even get a mention in the executive summary that is 10 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: sent to attendees before the meeting starts, and now climate 11 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: has broken through with more than a quarter of the 12 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: main panel discussions tied to climate is use one way 13 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: or another. It's disorienting to be a climate journalist at Davos. 14 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: On the one hand, you are close to the people 15 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: who have power or money or both to make the 16 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: decisions that can change the fate of the climate. The 17 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: twenty twenty meeting, which was the last big one before 18 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: the world shut down to deal with a pandemic, had 19 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: one hundred and nineteen billionaires and fifty three heads of 20 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: state attending On the other hand, Davos is a petri 21 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: dish for innovations in green washing. That same twenty twenty 22 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: meeting ended with Davos attornees failing to find a consensus 23 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: around carbon taxes, but it closed with a widely applauded 24 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: initiative to plant one trillion trees. There is little doubt 25 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: that the business world listens closely to what happens in Davos. 26 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: So how did climate get to Davos? What made the 27 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: world's business elite take notice? One person that deserves credit 28 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: is Gaale Whiteman's professor of sustainability at the University of 29 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: Exeters Business School, and she physically brought climate science to 30 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: Davos in twenty seventeen by giving climate scientists a space 31 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: to present their data. She called it the Arctic Base Camp. 32 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: The Arctic Base Camp is housed in an actual polar 33 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: tent used for Arctic exploration. Gail pitched the tent not 34 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 1: too far from the main venue and has camped there 35 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: every year since. It's not the most comfortable approach, but 36 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: getting to Davos means unparalleled exposure to world leaders. We 37 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: were packing up the tanton, we saw there's a ton 38 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: of security so really, you know, guys with guns everywhere 39 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: and snipers and so on, so we knew somebody fancy 40 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 1: was going to be around. And then we saw mister Netanya, 41 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: who walking by head a state of Israel at the time. Yes, 42 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: he was absolutely and he walked up to me and 43 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: he said, what the heck are you doing here with 44 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: this big arctic tent? And I said, well, we are 45 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: Arctic scientists and we're bringing a message of climate risk 46 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: to leaders. And he said you're sleeping here and I said, yeah, 47 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: we are. We've slepped here for three nights. Davos gives 48 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: you the opportunity where you can make those unusual moments 49 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: and just speak science to power. The tent is not 50 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: a stunt. Davos is exclusive and accommodation at the meeting 51 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 1: can run into the thousands of dollars. The tent was 52 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: Gail's way of making things work, and she filled the 53 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: tent with climate scientists and youth activists, people who couldn't 54 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: normally afford to go. I wanted to talk to Gail 55 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: about how she brought climate change to Davos, the limits 56 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: of raising awareness among the elites, and what needs to 57 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: happen for the Arctic Base Camp to succeed. Gail, Welcome 58 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: to the show. Thanks for having me. Actually it's great 59 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: to be here. Now, tell us about the Arctic Base Camp. 60 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: What it is, maybe starting with your motto, which is 61 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: what happens in the Arctic doesn't stay in the Arctic. 62 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: So Arctic Base Camp is a science communication platform. We're 63 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: not for profit, and that's right. That is our motto 64 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: that what happens in the Arctic doesn't stay there, and 65 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: in fact it's really a barometer of global risks. So 66 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,239 Speaker 1: our mission and the reason why we set up Arctic 67 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: Base Camp and Davos in twenty seventeen was we felt 68 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 1: that we needed to speak science to power and communicate 69 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: all the global risks that we're hitting the planet coming 70 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: from the Arctic and in fact coming from the polar 71 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: regions more generally. Now, the very existence of the Arctic 72 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: Base Camp is tied to Davos, and we're going to 73 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: talk a lot about Davos. Now. Davos is a town 74 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: in Switzerland which happens to host the World Economic Forum 75 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: every year, but it's also a shorthand for something else. 76 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: Help me describe for the listener what we are referencing 77 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: when we say Davos. Well, it's funny because I think 78 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,239 Speaker 1: there's probe of a couple of groups in the world, 79 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: those that when you say the word Davos, they immediately 80 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: get the desire like, oh, I've got to get there. 81 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: I want to join the elite, the top of business, 82 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: the top of policy and government, at the top of media, 83 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: to somehow get to the place where the movers and 84 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: shakers have been meeting since I think nineteen seventy one. 85 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: There's another group that will say, if you say the 86 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: word Davos, they'll say, oh, that's where all the elite go, 87 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: not to try and save the planet or fix the problems, 88 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: but actually just to make their lovely life that much 89 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: more lovely. And maybe there's another group that have never 90 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: heard of Davos at all. But the Davos that we 91 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: want to talk to, and the reason why we go 92 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: there is it is actually the place where the World 93 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: Economic Forum convenes people that have power from all different 94 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: stakeholder groups, and the mission in many ways has I 95 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: think shifted over time from just trying to make the 96 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: world a more economically viable place into actually a more 97 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: sustainable place. Of course, not all of them are on 98 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: the program yet, but increasingly a number of them are. 99 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: So we go to try and influence that group that 100 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: have power, that are interested in really getting us to 101 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: a safer SPASA in a low carbon economy, and really 102 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: try and show them just what the heck is happening 103 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: in the Arctic and the scale and speed of change 104 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: that is happening. Does January right, it's supposed to be 105 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: a ski toown. We are likely not going to see 106 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: any snow because of the massive heat wave that has 107 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: happened in Europe over the Christmas period and the first 108 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: week of January. What do you think that does to 109 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: the people who come to Davos now where between a 110 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: quarter and a third of all the big panels that 111 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: happen inside the Davos tent are tied to climate change. Well, 112 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: I hope it shocks the hell out of them. I mean, 113 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: you know, Switzerland in the winter should have snow. We 114 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: have been camping outside of Davos except for this May 115 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: when we were there. Of course, in it was alpine. 116 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: There's always snow. Now sometimes there's too much snow we 117 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: have to dig ourselves in and out of our base 118 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: camp ten. But it has never been the situation that 119 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: we are going to be facing this year, and I 120 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: hope it's a real reality check that it's not that 121 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: climate change that somehow has to be addressed by twenty thirty, 122 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: which people sort of think it does, like, well, okay, 123 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: we've got to get half emissions by twenty thirty. So 124 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: people are thinking that we still have time, We still 125 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: have time, and this should be a wake up call. 126 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: But now climate impacts are happening everywhere. That goes from 127 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: hurricanes in America to droughts in the hauna of Africa, 128 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: to heat waves in Europe. Why is it that you 129 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: wanted to bring the Octic to Davos and not all 130 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: climate impacts. Well, in fact, we are bringing all the 131 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: climate impacts to Davos because what happens in the Arctic 132 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: is driving those impacts all around the world. So the 133 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: Arctic is in many ways a remote and incredibly beautiful 134 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: place that seems sort of far away, and maybe if 135 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: you're a Canadian like me, or if you are a 136 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: polar bear lover, you pay attention to what's going on 137 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: in the Arctic, But it is a really important place 138 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: in the global climate system. So the snow and ice 139 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: in the Arctic Acts really is a big insurance policy 140 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: on runaway climate change, and as it has changed, as 141 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: it has melted and thawed, in fact, that has ramped 142 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: up global climate change throughout the world, particularly extreme weather 143 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: in the middlelatitudes. So if you're worried about wildfires in California, 144 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: you're worried about, you know, the polar vortex in the 145 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: east coast of the US, or the extreme heat wave 146 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: that we had in Europe this summer and that we're 147 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: having right now, but also the shifting monsoon patterns and 148 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: typhoon patterns throughout the Asian side of the world. That's 149 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: the Arctic calling and that's just the starting place. Let's 150 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: do it. Arctic climate science one oh one. The measure 151 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: that often has talked about is see ice average. Why 152 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: is it that that measure how much of the Octic 153 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: is covered by sea ice is so important? Well, I 154 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: think it's a good question. You know, a social scientist myself, 155 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: I had to really do Arctic science one oh one, 156 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: and I've got some amazing world class colleagues that have 157 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: really helped me understand why the sea ice, in particular 158 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: the summer sea ice is so important. The first of 159 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: all the ice. When it's there and the snow is white, 160 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: and the sun light comes in from space and it 161 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: hits the white, most of it bounces back up. So 162 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: the ice itself, the ice cover and the snow cover 163 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: are really important because their protective barrier from that heat 164 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: getting into the oceans or onto the land. That's the 165 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: albedo effect that we've heard about, you know, in Algor's 166 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: film and everybody talks about now. The summer in the Arctic, 167 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: there's always some melt, of course, because it's warmer than 168 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: it is in deep winter, right when the ice is 169 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: the thickest, it has the biggest extent. But the real 170 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: read is that in the summer, how small it's getting. 171 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: And that's the worrying sign. So it's not this fluctuation 172 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: that you've had. We have a little bit of that 173 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: dark ocean showing up. Yeah, so it accelerates, right, because 174 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: if you lose sea ice, then you're going to get 175 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: more sunlight not being reflected by the white snow but 176 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 1: instead being captured by the dark sea, and that heats 177 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 1: of the sea even more, that causing us melting even more, 178 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 1: and then it starts to change things like the circulation 179 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: system above the oceans, but also the jet stream, and 180 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: that's how extreme weather starts to change. And we can 181 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: connect those jet stream fluctuations to things like the polar vortex, 182 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: which holds this cold typically inside the Arctic, then sometimes escapes, 183 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: like we saw in the US when there was a 184 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: cold snap in December, pushing temperatures in the negative in 185 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: places like Texas. And if the polar votex doesn't flow 186 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: as well as it does, it also causes heat waves 187 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: like the one that we've just seen in Europe which 188 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 1: has melted all the snow endeavos exactly. So it regulates 189 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: that global climate system that gives us the weather that 190 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: we're kind of used to, and then we start to 191 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: see things get really strange. So parts of Switzerland this 192 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: week have been twenty degrees celsius. That is not a 193 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: Swiss January, let me tell you. So it's just completely different, 194 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: which means there's knock on effects. It's not just that 195 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: you can't ski as much as you might want. It's 196 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: also that the whole biodiversity chain changes, because then trees 197 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: start to think it's spring, or so do flies and 198 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: other other species. But there's also some really specific things 199 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: that can happen that need to happen in the Arctic 200 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,719 Speaker 1: that aren't happening. The first is that as shipping opens up, 201 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: there's a real need to get rid of heavy fuel 202 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: used by ships, right because these heavy fuels are really polluting, 203 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: and when they burn that fuel to ships, they pump 204 00:11:55,480 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: out all these really bad particles, dark particles onto snow, 205 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: which makes snow darker and does makes it easier to 206 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: melt exactly. Or the idea is that, oh, as the 207 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: Arctic melts, we can get at oil and gas deposits 208 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: that are there. And yet that's going to be catastrophic, 209 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: so don't do that. So it's this idea of short 210 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: lived economic games for some companies or some countries, and 211 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: yet the rest will pay the price because the price 212 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: tags are coming are not necessarily being felt by those 213 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: that could gain from it. And there's lots of other things. 214 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: We know that the big wildcard is permafrost. So much 215 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: of Siberia and certainly parts of Canada and the US 216 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: and Alaska have permafrost which in that has carbon stored 217 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: frozen and as it thaws, it releases methane, which is 218 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: a much more concentrated greenhouse gas, but there's almost no 219 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: direct sensors monitoring that situation. That looks like it is 220 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: potentially destabilizing as well. I think the whole of the 221 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 1: Arctic terrestrial area we've got only two hundred and fifty 222 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: on the ground censors, which would be like one censor 223 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: per you know, state of West Virginia or the whole 224 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: you know, country of Ireland. Like you can't. It's not 225 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: like you can get your cholesterol measured by having your 226 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: neighbor down the roads cholesterol measured and that means actualt 227 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: You're okay, like we actually need more measurement of something 228 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: so important. Now, Once you decided to go to Davos 229 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: because the Octic needed to be talked about at Davos, 230 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: was it as easy as buying a ticket and submitting 231 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: a panel idea and then they will be like, yes, 232 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: that's a really good topic. It's very important, we should 233 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: talk about it. Gail, please come along and set up 234 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: a panel. Oh my god, No, no, it was. It 235 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: was not at all in the easy persons And in 236 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: fact how it started off was I was actually in Tromso, 237 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: so I was in part of the Arctic Circle in 238 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: Norway at an academic conference. I'm a social scientist and 239 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: I have worked my entire career collectively and collaboratively with 240 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: the natural science aientists around the world, So I bring 241 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: in the natural science into discussions of global risk, particularly 242 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: in board rooms around the world. So I was in 243 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: TRUMPS and the conference at the time in twenty eleven 244 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: was on tipping points, and all the Arctic natural scientists 245 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: were absolutely worried about the global implications at that time. 246 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: And that's over a decade ago now, and I said, 247 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: you know, why are we talking about this in the 248 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: Arctic And they said, but that's where it's happening. And 249 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, but when you're talking global tipping points, 250 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: the globe is not here. And that's when the light 251 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: bulb moment for me was I said, we have to 252 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: go to Davos. And then my fellow colleagues in the 253 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: natural scientists said a couple of different things. First of all, 254 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: they said, what is Davos. For example, you know the 255 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: group that hadn'd of d Yeah, yeah, they're like, well, 256 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: what is Dao's exactly a nice point. And then some 257 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: of them who knew what Davos was. And then the 258 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: was another group that also said, well, we do know 259 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: what Davos is, but we're not sure. That's the role 260 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: of science. And again this is over a decade ago. 261 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: So scientists felt that their role was to do research 262 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: a rigorously peer review and publish it. And I certainly 263 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: agree with that wholeheartedly. But in order to get the 264 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: implications of that research out, we have to sometimes go 265 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: to places that we don't know where we are. So 266 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: I very bravely said, you, we've got to go to 267 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: the World Economic Forum. We have to go to Davos. 268 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: Let's go. And I had worked a little bit with 269 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: the World Economic Forum, and I went down that summer 270 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: to talk to some folks that I knew there, and 271 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: they were very interested. I have to say, and this 272 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: is we are talking. Yeah, we're talking twenty eleven, twenty twelve. Yeah, 273 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: And it was starting. Climate change was starting to be 274 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: on the agenda, but again just sort of starting. But 275 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: the Arctic was really seen as a niche part of 276 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: that storyline, and there was a bit of work that 277 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: was being done on the Arctic which was more about 278 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: who owned the mineral rights or shipping this kind of stuff. 279 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: So internally, there was this idea, of course that it's 280 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: a rich place of natural resources. So you go to 281 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: the World Economic Forum and there is some interest in 282 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: the out Yeah, yeah, absolutely, then what happens next? But 283 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't on the official program, but I did know 284 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: that there was a series of side events, so I thought, well, 285 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: we'll just do a side event. I completely underestimated the 286 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: fact that you can't get a place to stay at Davos. 287 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: The hotels are booked out in advance, and the World 288 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: Economic Forum has guests who get the chance to book 289 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: those rooms, and there's absolutely no way we could get 290 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: a room. And then even if we could get a room, 291 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: the cost of those rooms during the Davos week for scientists, 292 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: for academics impossible for us to be able to pay 293 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: for that even if we could. So I termed my 294 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: way a couple of times onto a hotel list there, 295 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: like basically you can have a closet if it's still available, 296 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: but eventually I would get kicked off on that. And 297 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: you can stay outside Davos, but then you've got to 298 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: come in and then you've got no place to present. 299 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: So around twenty sixteen, I said, you know what, let's 300 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: just bring an Arctic science tent, a weather haven tent 301 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: that scientists use in the field, and let's bring it 302 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: and let's find a backyard we can put it in, 303 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: and we're going to camp in it, and we're going 304 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: to use that as our event space. And that's where 305 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: their name Optic base Camp comes from. Yeah, So what 306 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: should people pitcher when they're imagining the Octic base camp 307 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: tent in Dubos. Oh, it's a it's a pretty big 308 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: tent um. I mean, it's not a tent to get 309 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: married in, so to speak, but it's a pretty big tent. 310 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: So it's about two and a half three meters wide 311 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,360 Speaker 1: and about five meters long, and it's a big sort 312 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: of domed tent, and it's white with orange, which are 313 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: the classic weather Haven colors, and we are big loco 314 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: Arctic base camp. It's insulated, of course, it's got some 315 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: insulation around it, and then we have smaller sleeping tents, 316 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: which are little yellow tents, two person tents that are 317 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: set up around it. Base camps are typically camps that 318 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: are set up at the base of a mountain. So 319 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: like the ever Space camp would be a very famous one, 320 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: right exactly. Even climbing up to the base camp is 321 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: quite the challenge, But of course that's just the base camp, 322 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 1: and then you actually go to the peak. And so 323 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: what you were trying to say with that is now 324 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 1: we've created this place, actual physical place where people can 325 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: come and if they so understand the importance of what's 326 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: happening in the Arctic, well they can go to the 327 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: next leven and do something about it. Exactly. And it 328 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: was decided that we could control this space, and it 329 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: was a space for science. And we were not fancy, 330 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,959 Speaker 1: and we were cold, and we were very thankful for 331 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: any dinner anybody ever gave us during any of the 332 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 1: Davos weeks. To be honest with you, you know, that 333 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: first year it was minus twenty four celsius. It was freezing. 334 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: It was freezing, and we ended up doing our the 335 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: actual event indoor at the research institute. Beside us that 336 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: professor Conrad Stephan, who was a Swiss glaciologist. He had 337 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: just come back to Switzerland and he was in charge 338 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: of a larger institute that had this Davos base know 339 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: an avalanche research, and he was completely supportive. So we 340 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: co hosted it with him and his team. Let us 341 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: use indoor facilities that first year to do the actual presentations, 342 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: and we were super lucky. We had Vice President Gore. 343 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: Al Gore joined us as a keynote, Christiana Fikas, We 344 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: had Peter Bacher, CEO of World Business Council, leaders from WWF. 345 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: Noiko Ishi was there from the GEF, and it was 346 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: a huge event. We had well over one hundred and 347 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: twenty people and that was a rocking way of kicking 348 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: off Davos. Do you've continued to do it since And 349 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: many of the names you just recounted, like al Gore, 350 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: are people who already understand the problem. So what was 351 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: it that you had to do to bring in the 352 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: other crowd, the crowd you really wanted to get to exactly? Well, 353 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: the first thing is we had to change locations because 354 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: it was not actually on the Animal corridor of the 355 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: Davos participant. They were not walking past that. They were 356 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: maybe getting in their helicopter, but that was not enough 357 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: to see us. We got a location in the second 358 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: year which we've stayed at every year since, at the 359 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: Shouts Out Hotel, which is a glorious hotel a short 360 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: vinicular ride up the mountain and it's one of the 361 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: classic hotels in Davos. And it's also where they have 362 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: the closing lunch every year. Lots of folks stay at 363 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: the shouts out. It has got major events happening all 364 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: the time. You know, Bill Gates and Malala have done in, 365 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: John Kerry have done evets and you know, a glorious view. 366 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: So it's kind of on the World Leader tour. That's handy, Yeah, 367 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: that's handy. You know. One year in twenty eighteen, I believe, 368 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: where we were packing up the tanton, we saw there's 369 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: a ton of security, so really, you know, guys with 370 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: guns everywhere and snipers and so on, so we knew 371 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: somebody fancy was going to be around. And then we 372 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: saw mister Netanyah who walking by with his wife and entourage, 373 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: head of State of Israel at the time. Yes, he 374 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: was absolutely and he walked up to me and he said, 375 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: what the heck are you doing here with this big 376 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: arctic tan And I said, well, we are Arctic scientists 377 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: and we're a message of climate risk to global leaders. 378 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 1: And he said, you're sleeping here and I said, yeah, 379 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: we are. We've slept here for three nights and I 380 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,479 Speaker 1: was wearing the sweater i'd slept in. I mean, you 381 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: know it was not the most glamorous meeting, I would 382 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: have to say. And then he said, I want to 383 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: see the tent. So they all came in and we 384 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: talked about climate change in global risk and let him 385 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: see some ice core samples, you know that kind of thing. 386 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting he was on our target list for 387 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: who we wanted to brief, But Davos gives you the 388 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: opportunity where you can make those unusual moments and just 389 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: speak science to power. After the break, I asked Gail 390 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,360 Speaker 1: whether what happens at Davos really makes a difference and 391 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: what needs to happen to save the optic. If you 392 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: like learning about big subjects like is Davos effective at 393 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: handling climate change? There is another bloom Book podcast I 394 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: think you will like. I want to recommend The Big Take. 395 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: Every day they bring you one big important story. Start 396 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: out with Crypto Explained in plain English. It's a thirty 397 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: minute interview with Bloomberg opinions Matt Levine that brings clarity 398 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: to crypto. It's based on a forty thousand words story 399 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: that made up the whole issue of Bloomberg Business Week recently. 400 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: Check it out. The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts, 401 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: devas has been the place where climate change is being 402 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: talked about more recently. Part of it is because of 403 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: initiative like yours, bringing the Arctic based camp to Fruition 404 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: and bringing word leaders to really understand this problem. But 405 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: we also know that emissions haven't started falling. There was 406 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: the one year in the pandemic that we saw a drop, 407 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: and that was because of economic activity being halted. We 408 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: saw emissions rise over the record high that was set 409 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen last year, so now we have a 410 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: new good high. That is why many people look at 411 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: dubos and go, yes, they're talking about climate change, but 412 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: if they are not doing something about it, isn't that greenwashing? 413 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: How do you respond to that? Yeah? So I think, 414 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: you know, I think the forum has if I look 415 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 1: at in the international stage, has really significantly changed over 416 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: the years. So a decade ago, there was probably inside 417 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: the World Economic Forum ten to fifteen people working on 418 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: environmental issues. Now a decade later, there's probably over well 419 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: over one hundred or one hundred and twenty people working 420 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: on environmental issues, climate change, biodiversity, plastics, all kinds of stuff. 421 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: So they have massively scaled up their teams, and they've 422 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: done I think tremendous work in all of those areas, 423 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: and work in the sense of mobilizing private sector action. 424 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: They've got a CEO Climate Leaders Group, which is impressive, 425 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: is bold, is ambitious. You know co leader is yes 426 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: for Brodon's CEO of IKEA. So you've got these really, 427 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: you know, interesting and I think relatively young CEOs that 428 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: are active in this space. But you've hit the nail 429 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: on the head here. If emissions do not fall, it 430 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. None of it matters. None of the science matters, 431 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: none of the media stories matter, none of the corporate 432 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: CEO good statements matter. I don't think it's only greenwash, 433 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: just like I don't think the work that I'm doing 434 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 1: is necessarily self aggrandizing. I think what it is is 435 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: that we've got intractable problems, and when governments go back 436 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: into their zone of say post pandemic recovery, they focus 437 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: on short term gains. So you look in Europe the 438 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: pushback to cole because of the war in Ukraine with Russia. 439 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: You look at the UK flip flopping on what they're 440 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: trying to do depending on who is the current Prime 441 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: minister or not. But they're real flip flop flip flop 442 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: back and forth on how far and how fast and 443 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: should they bring that Cambo oil field online or not? 444 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: Or if we had two hundred years act shot. I 445 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: would feel pretty optimistic because there's been a sea change 446 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: in this decade since we've been trying to get to 447 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: davas an absolute sea change. But the problem is is 448 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: that we've delayed action so long that physics is really 449 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: pushing us. And I think extreme weather, which is the 450 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: number one global risk around the world, is the wake 451 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: up call. What specifically needs to happen at the World 452 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: Economic Forum next well, from our perspective, because the Arctic 453 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: is so important in terms of the future of humanity, 454 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: what really needs to happen is it needs to become 455 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: a central part of the forum programming. We have to 456 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: go from off Broadway into the main tent, so to speak, 457 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: and that means we have to become one of the projects. 458 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: Not Arctic Base Camp, we're separate, but the Arctic, or 459 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: broadly the polar regions need to become part of the 460 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: World Economic Forum, so they have stuff on water and oceans, 461 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: they have stuff on trees, where's the cryosphere, which is 462 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: the frozen parts of the planet. We know that they're 463 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: so important, So we really absolutely need the Forum to 464 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: pick this up as a project. And in order to 465 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: do that, they need members. They need concrete two three 466 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: companies or big foundations, philanthropic donors that say this is 467 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: important enough. And it is because we cannot do any 468 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: of the other things if we don't save the Arctic 469 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: and the Antarctic. You use the word project, now, lots 470 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: of things can be projects, but what does it really 471 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: mean to be a project of the World Economic Forum? Oh, 472 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: that's a good question. So the Forum has a Center 473 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: for Nature and Climate that they set up, and underneath 474 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: that they have probably about so, I don't know, fifty 475 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: or one hundred projects. Those are the actual work projects 476 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: that members work on throughout the year the World Economic Forum. 477 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: Of course, the annual meeting is at Davos, but that 478 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that's all that the Forum does. In fact, 479 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: they have these work streams that continue throughout the year. 480 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: And that's why you want to get on a project. 481 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: You don't want to just pop up as here's the 482 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: Arctic again in January of every year. You actually want 483 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 1: people working on the Arctic or the polar regions more 484 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: broadly throughout throughout the year. So you want to be 485 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: a project and because of the presence of the Arctic 486 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 1: Base Camp at Davos, you've been asked by CEUs and 487 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: companies to come and give briefings. What does that involve 488 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: and like what does it lead to. It's interesting we 489 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: found because we're sort of seeing, obviously as an unusual 490 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: experience at Davos and one where the teams will bring 491 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: up a CEO for We had one in May, large 492 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: multinational company, an incoming CEO his first time at Davos, 493 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: and he wanted to come up and see different things, 494 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: and he came into the Arctic based camp tent and 495 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: we did a bespoke science briefing, which meant it was 496 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: just for him and his team, and we went through 497 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: not just the latest in Arctic change, we then brought 498 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: it into the global risk stuff. And for this company, 499 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: they were incredibly focused on water risk and change over 500 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: time and really did not know at the c suite 501 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: level how much the Arctic would affect those water patterns 502 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: throughout the world. So when we have a chance to 503 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: do that, we do it. The same thing with food 504 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: the Arctic because of its role in the water and 505 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: precipitation patterns around the world. It actually threatens the six 506 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: bread baskets of the world. You know, Arctic risk is 507 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: coming to our food system. The world is focused on, 508 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: of course, the bread basket in Russia and Ukraine, and 509 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: rightly should be, But the other overlying threat on that 510 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: one and all the others is actually Arctic change. Yeah. 511 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: As a climate journalist, there's a shorthand that I've learned, 512 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: which is climbate change is caused by greenhouse gases in 513 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: the atmosphere, but it really manifests through water on Earth. 514 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: And of course when I think about water, I'm thinking 515 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: rivers and lakes and oceans and sea level rise. But 516 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: really it's not just water in liquid form, but water 517 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: in the frozen form in the poles, both in the 518 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: Arctic and the Antarctic. I love that metaphor. You know, 519 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've you've ever talked to Lewis Pu. Yes, 520 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: it's interesting you bring up Lewis Pu because we talk 521 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: to him just a few episodes ago. And I hope 522 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: listen this can go back into the archive and listen 523 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: to the episode on why protecting the oceans is so important. 524 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: You know, he says this a great line. Ice is life. 525 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: It's incredibly important from the water system. And then also 526 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: you know sea level rise. We are seeing such instability 527 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: in Greenland, which is the largest contributor right now to 528 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: sea level rise, which threatens coastal communities everywhere. So I 529 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: think Archic base Camp is a way of bringing the 530 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: Arctic to Davos. But the real hero of the story 531 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: is the Archic itself. When you see the scale of 532 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: change that's happening, whether it's in Greenland or you you 533 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: go to Northern Canada or Alaska, or you're in spal 534 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: Bart and onward, and you see that scale of change, 535 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: you feel a moral imperative to try and deal with 536 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: that terrifying outcome. And that comes back to your point, 537 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: Act shot, what will happen at Davos when there's no 538 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: snow and all the people that are used to seeing 539 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: that snow and they've got they bring their big boots anyway, 540 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: and they don't eat them well. But Davos as the 541 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: place of the powerful and the elite, meeting at the 542 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: start of the year to set the agenda for the 543 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: rest of the year. Typically in the way that it 544 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: manifests is the tip of what capitalism does. How do 545 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: you think morality is going to help shape that outcome? Well, 546 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: you know, commed naive, but I actually think this is 547 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: because I've seen it happen so many times. Ultimately, leaders 548 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: are people, and when we touch their humanity and we 549 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: combine that with self interest at times, But when we 550 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: touch the humanity and they see the existential threats facing them, 551 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: and we saw it with the pandemic for sure, we 552 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: saw it to some degree with the war in Ukraine. 553 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: People will rise or can rise to the occasion, not 554 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: always will, and I think that will happen with the 555 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: climate crisis. My worry is that it might not happen 556 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: until it's too late to really avoid some major losses. 557 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: So we're pretty close to the one point five see 558 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: safe space, and you'll get scientists that will say we 559 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: don't have a hope in hell of maintaining that. I 560 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: stand on the side of optimism that you know, as 561 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: close to one point five as we can get is 562 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: better than saying that that targets away because it's not 563 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: a target, it's really about a physical limit. So we 564 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: have to keep going until it's too late, and even 565 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: then we have to try to mitigate as much as 566 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: we can. The pandemic did show us that when well 567 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: we're faced with it, not all there was gaming. There 568 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: was all kinds of political expedient decision making at times 569 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: around the world. But people will make decisions that are 570 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: bigger than themselves. And I am hoping that we can 571 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: start doing that too, because time's writing now. I hope 572 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: you're right. That was a fascinating conversation. Thank you, Gail, 573 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: Thank you. Last year was the first time I went 574 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: to Davos. It was in May instead of the usual 575 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: cold January, and the discussion no surprises, focused on the 576 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: war in Ukraine, the energy crisis that was to come, 577 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: and how the global economy will deal with high inflation. 578 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: Despite that, the climate remained a priority. Seven months on, 579 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: things haven't changed all that much. The war continues to 580 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: drag on, inflation is still too high, and energy security 581 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: remains top of mind. Will climate still be a priority 582 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: at Davos? Find out at Bloomberg dot com. Slash Green 583 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Zero. If you liked 584 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,719 Speaker 1: this episode, please take a moment to rate, review, and 585 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: subscribe on Apple podcasts or Spotify. Send it to a friend, 586 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: or send it to someone who travels too often in 587 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: a private jet. Get in touch at zero pod at 588 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Net. Zero's producer is Oscar Boyd and senior 589 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: producer is Christine riscoll Our theme music is composed by 590 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: Wonderly Special thanks to Eric Croston and Hugo Miller. I'm 591 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: Akshatrati back next week.