1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello, 4 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Noel 5 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: Is on an adventure they called me Ben. We are 6 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: joined with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, 7 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: you are you hopefully. You are here, hopefully, and that 8 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Today's 9 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: episode dives into a bit of true crime, right as 10 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: it's so popularly called nowadays. You know, I was discussing 11 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: this with my wife. I think that most conspiracies, at 12 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: least at the heart are true crime stories. At least, 13 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: uh there's some element of crime generally somewhere within them, 14 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: cover up an attempted secrecy, right to conspire in the 15 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: etymology of conspiracy and conspire to breathe together in secret. Yeah, 16 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean I think I think we do 17 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: a to true crime show here. We have we have 18 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: certainly we haven't been limited to true crimes, but but 19 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 1: I think there's some sand to it. A lot of 20 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: the cases that we have found, or a lot of 21 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: the phenomenon we have investigated can be traced back to um. 22 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: When I say mundane, I don't want to sound like 23 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: I'm diminishing it, but earthly mundane terrestrial crimes, greed, you know, anger, lust, gluttony, 24 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: all the hits, all the sins. So we should also 25 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: say at the top, I am very excited about some 26 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: stuff we have coming up. And I mentioned and believe 27 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: off air about a very interesting story I found from 28 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: folklore that also interacts or intertwines rather with true crime, 29 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: and that that folklore stuff is going to get dark. 30 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: So stay tuned for that in a few weeks. But 31 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: for now today's episode, we are traveling through the power 32 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: of the mind to Texas, to South Texas, to a 33 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: town called Laredo. And Laredo is going to be fascinating 34 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: for anyone who is not familiar with the area and 35 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: for anyone who's not from the States even And that's 36 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: because borders, despite all the hubbub you hear in the news, 37 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: borders historically have not been sharply demarcated things. Borders sort 38 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: of slide into one another, right, and then the first 39 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: borders were all terrestrial obstacle goals, impassable mountain ranges, you know, um, 40 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: unfordable rivers or gigantic oceans or deserts where nothing could grow. Yeah, 41 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: essentially everything on this side of whatever this unsurmountable thing 42 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: is is one place and then on the other to 43 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: the other. Yeah. Absolutely. But if you look at Laredo, Texas, uh, 44 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: and then you look at Nuevo Laredo, which is immediately 45 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: across the border, like, it looks like almost a city 46 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: in two or a town in two. Yeah, it looks 47 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: like a city with a river that bisects it exactly. 48 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: So this is a great point because nowadays, increasingly borders 49 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: are politically demarcated. Right. One of the one of the 50 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: incredibly effective and entirely immoral, i would say evil strategies 51 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: that European powers used to subjugate native peoples on the 52 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: a Incontinent was the creation of political borders. So let 53 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: us take a look. The European forces would say at 54 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: the natural demarcations people have made four thousands of thousands 55 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: of years, this community or this tribe or or this 56 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: nation lived here, Well, let's bisect it. So now they 57 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: live in in three different areas and they can't gather 58 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: as easily. It's um, it's a predecessor of gerrymandering, but 59 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: a much more brutal one with the with the effect being, 60 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: of course, the removal of power from the people. And 61 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: this means that in terms of social impact, borders, whether 62 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: they're based on an insurmountable obstacle or whether they're based 63 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: on the political aims of the people drawing the maps, UH, 64 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,239 Speaker 1: they still have very very powerful effects on the people 65 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: who live in the area. And the southern border between 66 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: the United States of America and Mexico has been in 67 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: the domestic and international news for some time now, for 68 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: for a couple of years. Really, it was a campaign 69 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: slogan from the Trump administration that launched this into um 70 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: the zone of international media. And as we record this, UH, 71 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: the sitting president issued a national emergency dealing with border security. Yes, 72 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: that is correct, declared a national emergency when Congress rejected 73 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: the executive branches uh initial request for money to build 74 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: a wall, a physical barrier. Physical barriers already exist different 75 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: points along the border, but this pitch was for the 76 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: construction of a contiguous this barrier of some sort. What 77 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: would that barrier be exactly? That sort of changes depending 78 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: on the news cycle, you know. But when you hear 79 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: about the southern border between the United States and Mexico. Nowadays, 80 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: you're primarily going to hear about that ongoing debate. Should 81 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: the US build or extend the existing physical barriers across 82 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: the span of the border. If so, who should pay 83 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 1: for this, you know? And what would be? What would 84 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: the benefits, if any be, what would the consequences, if 85 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: any be. You will hear widely varying and wildly varying 86 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: ideas and takes on this. Whatever you tune into the 87 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: news or whatever podcasts you listen to, Today's episode is 88 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: not about that wall, not about that physical barrier, nor 89 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: is it about the debate involved. But it is physically 90 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: where we are. It is physically where we are right 91 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: you see, Folks, there has been a ton of media 92 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: coverage and there's been a ton of reporting about crime 93 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: or the lack of crime along this very border. And 94 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: today's story does concern crime, but perhaps not the way 95 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: some of us might initially assume. So we said, we're 96 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: in Laredo. Where's Laredo, Matt, What do you tell us 97 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: about Laredo? What is this? What is this thing? Yes, 98 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: it's in it's in southern Texas. It's the seat of 99 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,119 Speaker 1: Webb County there. It's uh, immediately on the Rio Grand. 100 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: As we discussed, the Rio Grand separates it from New Laredo, 101 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,679 Speaker 1: which is on the Mexican side of the border, and 102 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: it's about two KOs southwest of San Antonio. That's your 103 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: biggest landmark of sorts or I guess city mark. Um. 104 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: And it's about yes, roughly, and it's you know, it's 105 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: one of the most important, one of the principal ding 106 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: border crossings that exist between Mexico and Texas, and specifically 107 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: from to get from Mexico into Texas. And that's a 108 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: legal border crossing. Correct, a legal borders, legal border crossing. Yes, 109 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: oh man, it's so red, leather, yellow, right, yes for 110 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: all the theater kids in the audience today. Absolutely, um. 111 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,559 Speaker 1: So let's talk about the human beings that are there. 112 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: So as of seventeen, the population of Laredo was estimated 113 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: to be about two hundred and sixty thousand, almost two 114 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty one tho. The population is roughly six 115 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: percent Hispanic or Latino and this town, the city is 116 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: ranked one of the least ethnically diverse cities in the 117 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: entire country. And quick update I dug into that a 118 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: little bit more. It is the it is the one 119 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,719 Speaker 1: top of the least ethnically diverse, which is another way 120 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: of saying the most homogeneous in terms of ethnicity area 121 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: in the nation, which is which is pretty nuts, because 122 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: the United States has a lot of pockets of population, right, 123 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: But often these will occur in areas where they're they're 124 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,479 Speaker 1: part of a city that is composed of other pockets, 125 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Absolutely, that's I would say 126 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: that very much describes Atlanta. Yeah, the city of pockets, sure, 127 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: and Atlanta is more integrated than many other cities here 128 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: in the modern day. But Laredo does have a population 129 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: of more than as you said, Hispanic or Latino identifying people, 130 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: and for some some people this would be indicative of 131 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 1: the point we made earlier that borders tend to be 132 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 1: gray gray areas, you know what I mean. Like often 133 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: people on either side of a border will speak the 134 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: same language and we'll have a lot of the same customs, 135 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And the especially if it's 136 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: a political border, it's dividing an area that already existed 137 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: without the line marked through it, you know, and especially 138 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: if that border is between two countries like the United 139 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: States and Mexico that for century or at least decades, 140 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: we've had trade deals where businesses in along that border 141 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: are also going across that border constantly and all the time. Um. 142 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: When you just think about the population that actually lives 143 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 1: on one side or exists on one side for a 144 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: large amount of their day, um, that that area becomes 145 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: even grayer. Yeah. Yeah, And this is not solely a 146 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: US Mexico phenomenon. You know, there are plenty of people 147 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: who live in the US work in Canada, vice versa. 148 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: I think about the EU, I was, Yeah, that's that's 149 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: one of the primo examples for sure, because of the 150 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: way that the EU travel and residency laws work. It's 151 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: completely normal too, and also the proximity of the countries. 152 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: It's completely normal to wake up in one country where 153 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: you live and then go work in another one and man, 154 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, maybe stop and see 155 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: your your boyfriend, your girlfriend, your significant other in a 156 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: third country just on the way home. Has done that, 157 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: I think. I mean, that's the mission control life. We 158 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: don't want to, we don't want to compromise that, but 159 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: we can envy it so so with this idea of borders. 160 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: Here in the US, we encounter concerns about crime, usually 161 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: concerns about smuggling of one sort or another drugs people, uh, 162 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: or we hear things about violent crime, robberies, gang activity, murder, assault. 163 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: At least that's reported and then becomes a news a 164 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: newsworthy story at least for a few hours. Right if 165 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: it bleeds, it leads. And one of the concerns that 166 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: often crops up when we talk about crime at any 167 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: international border is going to be um the concern of 168 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: how overblown or how ignored a phenomenon is. Is there 169 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: a ton of crime that's being unreported? Is there a 170 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: dearth of crime or a lack of crime with that's 171 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: being overreported? You know, one murder occur and then that 172 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: murder leads the news for four months. Those are Those 173 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: are definitely I would say, the viewpoints from which a 174 00:12:54,600 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 1: lot of times people form an opinion about crime at borders. Yeah, 175 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: because realistically, most people don't have time to take a 176 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: week off, drive down or fly down to the border 177 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: and watch themselves. You know, you have to you have 178 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: to find news sources or reporting sources that you can trust, 179 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: or or even to take the time just to do 180 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: some research from a computer. Like what we do on 181 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: the show is sit down and you know, research and 182 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: write about it. Nobody has time for that unless you're 183 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: getting paid for it. That's not a bad point. It's 184 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: it's tough but fair. It's tough but fair. So let's 185 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: talk about crime in Laredo. From what we found. We 186 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: went straight to the official government statistics, so past the 187 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: pundit headlines and so on, and what we found is 188 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: that over the past nine years or so, crime in 189 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: Laredo has dropped significantly. It has not escalated. One of 190 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: the pitches that you'll hear for the construction of of 191 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: more physical barriers or a contiguous physical barrier is it's 192 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: not designed to be a political argument. It's designed to 193 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: be an argument about security. And the idea here is 194 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: that a crime is increasing and that be uh some 195 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: sort of physical barrier will help reduce or mitigate that increase. 196 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: That's just the argument as it's laid out. A ton 197 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: of people agree with it, ton of people disagree with it. 198 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: That's the argument. It couldn't it couldn't be more polar 199 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: It could not be more polar That's that's an excellent observation. However, 200 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: the assumptions of that argument fall a little bit short 201 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: in Laredo, because in this town, homicide cases dropped thirty 202 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: from two thousand and nine, to robbery decline and aggravated 203 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: assault dropped. This is according to the Laredo Police Departments 204 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: Annual Report. In so crime appears to, at least in 205 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: several key areas, be going down in Laredo rather than escalating. 206 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: But there's something else at play here. It's it's not 207 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: just everybody pulling an R E M. Shiny happy people thing, 208 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: you know, everybody just suddenly become friends. Most violent crime 209 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: rates have dropped by double digits, but sexual offense cases 210 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: have increased by forty eight percent during that same nine 211 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: year span from two thousand nine. So other stuff dropped 212 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: by a third, in some cases almost halved, but this 213 00:15:52,520 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: stuff increased by almost fifty. Yeah. That's um, that's a 214 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: tough statistic. I certainly wonder why, um, and we're not 215 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: here to analyze that. But it is like, it's a 216 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: terrible reality. It's a terrible reality. And of course you 217 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: could make arguments saying that maybe there's something wonky and 218 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: the way it's reported of course, we do know that 219 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: in this country, as unfortunately is the case in many 220 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: other countries, there are a lot of homicides that go 221 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: on reported right in this case, we see that there's 222 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: an anomalous spike. Everything else is going down. This thing 223 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: is spiking. Let's look at murder, murder specifically, murderers dropped, 224 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: but it's still occurring. And you can find some fairly 225 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: robust murder statistics in Laredo on a website called city 226 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: dash data dot com and it this compiles all of 227 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: the murders, sexual assaults, robberies, burglaries are thefs, non car ffs, Arson, 228 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: and so on across the town, across Laredo and Nuevo 229 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: Laredo as well. So let's let's think about who these 230 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: murderers are, or who these criminals are. Should we give 231 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: some name, like some numbers as to some of these dates. 232 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, just to just to have so everyone understands. 233 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: So if we're looking we're looking at this table that 234 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: goes from two thousand to until two thousand sixteen. The 235 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: if we're just looking at murders, the lowest number you're 236 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: going to find between those dates occurred in at least 237 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: the reported ones and there were only three murders that year. 238 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: Then if let's see a max would be two thousand three, 239 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: which is twenty nine murders in that year. So those 240 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: numbers are fairly low. I mean, they seem very low. Um, 241 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: we don't have a really good thing to like compare 242 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: it to. But over you know, in a big city 243 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: there are significantly more murders than that generally on average 244 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: per year. Um, So I guess the big question is 245 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: who are the people in Laredo and New Laredo who 246 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: are killing other humans? Right? Right? Who are these murderers? Now, 247 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 1: we wouldn't be wrong if we were listening to this 248 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: and we just shrugged and said, well, you know, unfortunately, 249 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: the usual gangs maybe jilted lovers in crimes of passion, 250 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: or employees who are former employees rather maybe drug dealers, 251 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: human traffickers, you know, criminals, sleeves bags, scum. There are 252 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: always elements of these criminals in the mix. But Laredo, 253 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: it turns out, may have birthed something else, something that 254 00:18:53,280 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: is fortunately much less common, something that is in many 255 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: ways more dangerous and definitely um, definitely more alien. Yes, 256 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 1: what happened in Laredo that caused a man who's hired 257 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: to protect the border but instead used that area as 258 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: his personal hunting ground. We'll have the answer after a 259 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. Juan 260 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: David Ortiz was a veteran of the U. S. Navy. 261 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: He was married with children, held a bachelor's degree from 262 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: the American Military University and a master's degree from St. 263 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: Mary's Academy in Texas. After leaving the Navy, or Tease 264 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: finds work for the US Border Patrol and he spends 265 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: ten years there functioning as an intelligence operator or an 266 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: intelligence officer. As an intelligence officer, or Tease was well 267 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: aware of Laredo's cd underbelly, the sex workers, the drug dealers, 268 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: the drug addicts, the criminals, and the smugglers, everyone making 269 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: a living on the wrong side of the law for 270 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: one reason or another. And somewhere along the way he 271 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: became a killer. So let's go to the night of September. 272 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: There's an unidentified woman who was at the time she 273 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: was at least functioning as a sex worker um on 274 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: that night and she met up with a man that 275 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: she knew of at least as David David and she 276 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: was feeling uneasy about um deciding to, I guess, hang 277 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: with David or go on a date with David or whatever. 278 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: And there were two other sex workers that she knew 279 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: of that who at least that she was aware of, 280 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: had been recently killed. And one of those people was 281 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: her personal friend named Melissa, Melissa Ramirez. Now, this man 282 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: named David, or at least that it's called David, and 283 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: this unidentified woman had already spent some time at the 284 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: man's house, and this is like I guess over time, 285 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: they've been there for a little while, and she began 286 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: to get increasingly creeped out by this man, and she 287 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: was becoming frightened by some of his actions. He was 288 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: taking some of his words, and especially when she mentioned 289 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: her friend Melissa, who had recently been killed, he had 290 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: reacted so strangely, in fact, she later told authorities, and 291 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 1: the situation had grown so tense during the conversation that 292 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: she vomited in the front yard of the house before 293 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: they went back into the truck and left, ostensibly to 294 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: go to a gas station. As this woman, who remains 295 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: unidentified at the time of recording, later accounted to police, 296 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: the thought of Melissa stayed on her mind. It's fair 297 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: to say it haunted her, and she kept bringing up 298 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: her dead friend in response. Suddenly, this man, this David, 299 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: pulled out a gun and grabbed the woman by her shirt. Luckily, 300 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: I think her fight or flight reflexes were already pretty 301 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: amped up at this point. She manages to jump out 302 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: of the vehicle, and her shirt rips from her body 303 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: during the process. David screeches off. He flees the scene, 304 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 1: and the woman finds a state trooper at a nearby 305 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: gas station. She tells the trooper what happened, and then 306 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: she is also able to tell law enforcement the location 307 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: of this David's home. David, who would later be identified 308 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: as Juan David Ortiz, hit out in a hotel parking 309 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: lot after fleeing officers attempting to apprehend him. He was 310 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: found and arrested at two thirty am. And here's the thing. 311 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: David was arrested, and shortly after he was arrested, he 312 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: began spilling the beans, essentially just telling all and he 313 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: was confessing two very specific things. And when he when 314 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: he talked about his motivations of why he was doing 315 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: what he was doing, which we're gonna get into here 316 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: in a moment. But his at least stated motivation was 317 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: that he wanted to quote clean up the city, and 318 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: he said that he had in fact killed this unidentified 319 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: woman's friend, Melissa. He he admitted that he did that 320 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: on the third of September in that year, but that 321 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: wasn't all. He also confessed that he had committed more 322 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: than just that one murder. That's right, According to Webb 323 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: County District Attorney is Cedar alan Is where Tease saw 324 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: himself somewhat as a vigilante. Sex worker He said were 325 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: the scum of the earth, and he wanted to clean 326 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 1: the streets. He believed he was doing a service for 327 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: the city by committing these murders. He argued that law 328 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: enforcement was not doing enough to curb what to curb 329 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: the sex trade he saw it, which is which acquires 330 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: a new complication when we consider that circumstantial evidence indicates 331 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: Ortiz wasn't just socially familiar with several of these workers. 332 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: Several of these victims he had been sexually involved with 333 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: at least one, and he did, you know, he did 334 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 1: confess to these they were murdered in very similar ways. Furthermore, 335 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: during his descriptions of the murders, and during his arrest 336 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 1: and during his confession, he was described as cool, emotionless, 337 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: almost robotic. But let's go back to that in a moment. First, 338 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: maybe we should talk about who these victims are. We 339 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: mentioned Melissa Ramirez, so in total, Ortiz is suspective killing 340 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: for and one kidnapping that would that would be the 341 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: unidentified woman. Then it's important to talk about the time 342 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: frame here when you're talking about a serial killer or 343 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: spree killer or you know, the differences that we've covered 344 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: in several episodes over the course of the years here. Um, 345 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: but all of the murders that at least David Ortiz 346 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: is jan David Ortiz is accused of or was accused of, 347 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 1: they they happen from September three to two September of 348 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,479 Speaker 1: the same month. So uh, not much of a cooling 349 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: down period there between these killings. Four killings in that 350 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: time span. So let's go to the first victim that 351 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: we've discussed a tiny bit, Melissa Ramirez. She was twenty 352 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: nine years old when she died. She was killed on 353 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 1: the third of September two thousand eighteen. She was taken 354 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: to Jeffries Road in the area and she was shot 355 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: in the head. And then on the thirteen of September, 356 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: Claudine and Lura, forty two years old, was murdered. She 357 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: was taken to US eighty three in Spur Road to 358 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: fifty five on September and she was shot. She did 359 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: reach the hospital. She died shortly after she reached the 360 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: hospital as a result of the gunshot wounds. Essentially, she 361 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: was shot and left for dead. And then we have 362 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: Griselda Alicia Hernandez Conto. She was thirty five when she 363 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: died and she was killed on the fifteenth of September. 364 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: She was she was shot, but according to Corners, she 365 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: died due to blunt forest trauma and so shot and 366 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: then battered. And the last identified victim at this point 367 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: is Umberto Janelle Enriquez Ortiz, twenty eight year old, killed 368 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: on the same day as Griselda on fifteenth of September 369 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: two eighteen, also through a shot to the head. This 370 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: victim was a trans woman identified as such as far 371 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: as authorities can tell at this time or as far 372 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: as what's been made publicly available about these confessions, that 373 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: didn't that didn't play into the factor. He was hunting 374 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 1: and killing specifically people based on their occupation, so this 375 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: leads us to ask what else is out there. It 376 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: is not unreasonable to assume that Ortiz may have committed 377 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: other murders, but it seems odd that he would not 378 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: have confessed to these as well while admitting to the 379 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: other four. There's also tricky thing that happens sometimes with 380 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: serial murder confessions. We We've seen this in a couple 381 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: of other earlier serial killer cases, which is, if law 382 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: enforcement has a bunch of open or cold cases they 383 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: want to resolve, they I say they like their monolithic 384 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: Some departments have in the past offered a prisoner different perks, 385 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: you know, better food, better housing, etcetera. If they will 386 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: also cop to these other unsolved cases, it's a way 387 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: to clear the books. It's incredibly unethical, probably uncommon, and 388 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: probably uncommon. Thankfully so, It's happened before, so it's not 389 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: crazy to assume that this could happen again, or even 390 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: as happening now in a totally different, unrelated case. In 391 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: the case of Ortiz, it seems that he did do it, 392 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: quite possibly with his service weapon, and he confessed to 393 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: every murder he did and so this leads us to 394 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: two things. The first thing is was there a serial 395 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: killer active on the US Mexico border. This has been 396 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: the one of those rumors that's cropped up in years past, 397 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,959 Speaker 1: you know. Uh. In this case, yes, yes, there was 398 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: operating for a very short amount of time as far 399 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: as we know, just in September before he's thankfully apprehended. 400 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: But some of us will call earlier episodes when we 401 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: talked about the difference between a spree killer and a 402 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: serial killer. Serial killers, as I think you pointed out earlier, 403 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: met usually have some sort of cooling down period. It's 404 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: called so whatever that specific m O is. They they 405 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: commit a murder using that specific you know, ritualistic set 406 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: of circumstances or approach, and then they stopped for anywhere 407 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: from you know, days, two months, in some cases years, 408 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: and then they rinse and repeat the same behavior. This 409 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: guy had a increasingly short interval of cooling down right 410 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: from the third or September to and then just two 411 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: days to the fifteenth, and then twice on the fifteenth. 412 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: So this could this was building. Oh yeah, you can. 413 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: You can definitely see that. And again it thank goodness, 414 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: he was caught when he was, because you can only 415 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: imagine where that could have gone as it was, as 416 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: it was ramping up like that. So the people working 417 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: in law enforcement who apprehended and arrested him, um again 418 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: all thanks to the quick thinking of this unidentified fifth person, 419 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: and they have literally saved lives, have literally saved lives. 420 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:03,719 Speaker 1: So it would seem that although immense human tragedy and 421 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: loss has occurred here, there is, if not a happy ending, 422 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: something a little bit more satisfactory. Right, the we found 423 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: the monster, the monster was stopped and again and again. 424 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: I know legally we're required to say the alleged murderer 425 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: because the guy has knocked on to court yet. Yeah, 426 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: it's not being convicted of a crime yet. But he 427 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: did confess. Yeah. Still, it's hard to argue with the confession, 428 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: but we know that there are such things as course, 429 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: confession is a very real thing. But it would be 430 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: a massive surprise if it turned out that he was not, 431 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: in fact the person who committed these murders. I would agree. However, 432 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: there's not there's not a satisfactory ending to this. This 433 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: is one wrinkle, right in a continuing story. Yeah, one 434 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: David Ortiz, you know, is an extreme version of some 435 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: of the violence and some of the patterns of behavior 436 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: that have been noticed uh in border areas. Right, this 437 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: is a chapter of a story, and it is not 438 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: the first chapter. It is not the last. You see, Ortiz, 439 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: it's not the only murderer who operate on the border. 440 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,479 Speaker 1: He wasn't even the only murderer who worked on the 441 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: force on the border patrol. Yeah, and we'll get to 442 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: that after a word from our sponsor, and we're back. 443 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: Let's jump to a few months prior to when Je 444 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: David Ortiz was arrested. Let's go to June of two 445 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen. In that month of last year, another border agent, 446 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: Ronald Anthony Burgos of Ela, was indicted on two counts 447 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: of capital murder for allegedly killing his twenty seven year 448 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: old lover I guess at the time, and their twenty 449 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: month year old son, Um and prosecutors are currently seeking 450 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: the death penalty in his case, as well as ortiesus exactly. 451 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: There are fewer details available here, partially because the judge 452 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: presiding over this case issued a gag order at the 453 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: defendant's request. This prevents all involved parties from discussing the 454 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: case publicly. You can still if you're a journalist or 455 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: an interested person involved in the case, you can still 456 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: go to public hearings. Those aren't closed down. But a 457 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: gag order means that prosecutors, the attorneys for the defense, witnesses, 458 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: police and other officers of the court, the bailiff, the stenographer, etcetera. Uh, 459 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: anyone wh ties the investigation cannot discuss, summarize, or comment 460 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: on the case in any way. So this case is nascent, 461 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: it's still developing, it has not yet completed its passage 462 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: through the legal system. So that that's one example. But 463 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: you will see other people arguing that the these two 464 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 1: terrible and tragic examples are part of a bigger story. 465 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,720 Speaker 1: The Texas Observer recently wrote an article called the Border 466 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: Patrol serial killer is part of a long troubled history. 467 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: This by journalist Gus Bova. And what we find is 468 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 1: that now the Laredo sector of Border Patrol alone host 469 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: around sevent hundred of the twenty thousand total Border Patrol agents. 470 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,879 Speaker 1: And according to this article, or Tease was at least 471 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: the fourth patrolman to be arrested this year. The other 472 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: cases include Burgosavile. So we mentioned earlier, another another officer 473 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: who allegedly sexually assaulted a woman after threatening or with deportation. 474 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: Another agent who has not been identified nor arrested, shot 475 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: and killed an unarmed twenty year old Guatemalan woman in May. 476 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: And this has been dubbed a series of very tragic 477 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: coincidences or you know, maybe a pattern of abuse within 478 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: the law enforcement. But that's probably not it. It's just 479 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: that's what it appears to be, maybe, right, And it 480 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: goes back to the bad apple argument, because we're of 481 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: course not People who work in law enforcement go outside 482 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: every day and risk their lives, so we're not in 483 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 1: any way casting aspersion on that. The question is more 484 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: about accountability in in these cases, you know, and what's happening. 485 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: From two thousand five to two thousand twelve, US Customs 486 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: and Border Protection agents were arrested over two thousand times 487 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: for misconduct things like not all murder, still things that 488 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: were against law, drunk driving, domestic violence. Your job for 489 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: and CPP customers and Border protection includes border patrol and 490 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 1: customs agents, so it's a larger pool, right. Two thousand 491 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: thirteen Government Commission report found that border patrol agencies regularly 492 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: stepped in the paths of cars to justify firing at drivers, 493 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: as well as shooting at people throwing rocks, including teenagers 494 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: on the Mexican side of the border. M yeah, I 495 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: remember hearing about a few of those occurrences in the 496 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:42,760 Speaker 1: in the news. That's rough. Um m hm No, There's 497 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: already been widespread speculation that Ortiz might have other victims 498 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: that have yet to be publicly identified or conclusively linked 499 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 1: to him. And as we said before, it's weird. It's 500 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: not impossible, but it's weird that he would readily confess 501 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: to four murders a fifth kidnapping and somehow keep the 502 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: other stuff out of the news. There's definitely more to 503 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,320 Speaker 1: this story. Um. We already noted that according to the 504 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: US legal system, he's still innocent. He's been tried for crimes, 505 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 1: but until he's convicted, you can't legally be called a 506 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:21,879 Speaker 1: confirmed serial killer. But we have to ask, is there 507 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 1: more to this story? Are there murders occurring along the 508 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: border that are being unreported? And if so, who are 509 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: the victims? Who are the perpetrators? Right? And and how 510 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 1: can we be how can we be sure that they're 511 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,439 Speaker 1: all being found like all of the victims are being 512 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: even are even known to be missing. There's such potential 513 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: on on border for someone who may be a part 514 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: of trafficking or either willingly or unwillingly that ends up 515 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: just a victim and never found. It's it's pretty terrifying, right. 516 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: These are tough questions. In many cases, unfortunately they may 517 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:08,240 Speaker 1: be unanswerable because people can fall through the cracks. You know, um, 518 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: someone who is someone who is attempting to cross a 519 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: border illegally, maybe petrayed, betrayed by the forces that said 520 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: they would get them over safely, and their bodies might 521 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: never be discovered or when discovered, not identified. And what 522 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: we have for today's episode then is not a happy 523 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: ending other than you know, a budding serial killer was 524 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: a newly active serial killer was apprehended, thankfully, right, But 525 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 1: this is a small snapshot into what may be a larger, 526 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: uh systemic problem. And if it is a larger systemic problem, 527 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: if it's not a case of a few bad apples 528 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: or something like that, then what is the solution? Does 529 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: a solution exist? We'd like to hear from you. You 530 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: can let us know on in Stagraham, let us on Facebook, 531 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: let us know on Twitter. Additionally, tell us about the 532 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 1: tell us about the crimes in your neck of the woods, 533 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 1: whether in the US or your home country, or just 534 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: a crime you've heard of that you believe has been 535 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: under reported. Tell us what happened and why you think 536 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: it's not getting more coverage. Absolutely, please please write to us. 537 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,919 Speaker 1: Just give us your experience if you if you will, 538 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: if you want to, because we would like to learn 539 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 1: along with you, um and and learn from your experience. UM. 540 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: Just just before we kind of like do the full 541 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: wrap up here, I just want to point out something 542 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 1: that the Texas Observer pointed out, UM, and that is 543 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: the number of staff working on border patrol, like officially 544 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: at least, and how it's increased from like in the 545 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: past nineteen years or I guess they have statistics for 546 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 1: the past seventeen years as of two years ago. That 547 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 1: makes sense, so two thousand to two thousand, seventeen, and 548 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,800 Speaker 1: just showing that it was around nine thousand, two hundred 549 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: people officially staffing the United States border in the year 550 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: two thousand, UM, and that grew all the way up 551 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: to seventeen thousand, five hundred roughly in two thousand eight 552 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 1: over the course of eight years. So it doubled almost 553 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 1: then uh, the next year two thousand nine, it jumped 554 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: up to the twenty thousand range, and it's kind of 555 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:34,360 Speaker 1: stayed between let's say, nineteen thousand and twenty one fifty 556 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 1: UM over the course from two thousand two seventeen. Just 557 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: to show that you're that's a lot of people. If 558 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: you think about a couple of thousand human beings that 559 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: you're vetting and bringing in to the police officers essentially 560 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,399 Speaker 1: in border patrol agents and the Texas Observer just makes 561 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,400 Speaker 1: the point that it's that kind of growth over that 562 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,879 Speaker 1: amount of time seems to be too rapid in order 563 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: to fully vet all of the humans that you're hiring. Yeah, 564 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: so maybe there just needs to be a more in 565 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,279 Speaker 1: depth vetting process. Who knows. And that's one of the 566 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,839 Speaker 1: arguments you'll probably here and you may have heard that 567 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: one UM. But again, sometimes you just can't catch that 568 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: anomaly because it's operating essentially right in front of your 569 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: eyes and you just don't realize it right or in 570 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: the case of UM, the kind of festering mental condition 571 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: they could lead someone to become an active serial killer. 572 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: It may be rotting away internally, you know what I mean? Yeah, 573 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: exactly all right, So right to us or call us you. 574 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: If you call us, you can leave a message and 575 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,319 Speaker 1: it might get on the show and we would love 576 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: to hear your your stories and then respond to them 577 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 1: in an episode in the future. So call us. We 578 00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: are one eight three three st d w I t K. 579 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: That's just an acronym for stuff they don't want you 580 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: to know, and uh do that. If you don't want 581 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,320 Speaker 1: to do that, send us a good old fashioned email. 582 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at how stuff works dot com.