Speaker 1: What's Donald Trump up to these days? What really went
Speaker 1: on behind the scenes during the election, and how do
Speaker 1: we keep the nationwide murder rate from skyrocketing? Today? I
Speaker 1: get all the answers to these three questions from someone
Speaker 1: who motors from personal experience. This is out Allowed with
Speaker 1: Gianno called One. Welcome back to Allow with Gianno called blow.
Speaker 1: I've got a big show for you guys this week.
Speaker 1: My guest is the one and only Rudy Giuliani, an
Speaker 1: attorney who served as the mayor of New York City,
Speaker 1: FRO and one. On today's episode, we discussed Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, the future to GOP Giuliani's time is the
Speaker 1: mayor of New York, how to stop crime, and so
Speaker 1: much more. Let's go. We got the one and only
Speaker 1: the very honorable Mayor Rudy Giuliani. Thank you, Mr Mayor
Speaker 1: for joining all Out with Gianno calledwell. Really appreciate being
Speaker 1: very high. I regard you this, No, I appreciate that greatly. Now,
Speaker 1: I was reading something and before we get into the apology,
Speaker 1: because the interview and all that other stuff, but I
Speaker 1: was reading something recently which said that you would be
Speaker 1: at the Trump Hotel so often that they gave you
Speaker 1: a gold plate was said personal office that Rudy Giuliani.
Speaker 1: Is that true? Yeah, kind of a joke back made
Speaker 1: up that said we had we had a funny one
Speaker 1: and we had a serious one. One said put off Giuliani,
Speaker 1: attorney at law, and the other had something crazy written
Speaker 1: on it, you know, the Trump coach. It was downstairs
Speaker 1: under the BLT restaurant in the corner. And during the
Speaker 1: impeachment proceedings, particularly when we were writing up answers and all,
Speaker 1: I started to get kind of uh restless, then locked
Speaker 1: up in a room, so I went downstairs so I
Speaker 1: could see people, and they decided to make up my
Speaker 1: office one day. I hope to grow up and and
Speaker 1: have those kind of privileges that I'll be working my
Speaker 1: way up in two So that's very the long stretch.
Speaker 1: It was good though, Yeah, no, no kidding, no kidding. Now,
Speaker 1: before we get into I said it was a great
Speaker 1: honor to represent a president I admire so much, and
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm looking forward to hear more about that.
Speaker 1: But before we get into the politics and the issues
Speaker 1: of the day, I wanted to ask you about Russia. Limbaugh.
Speaker 1: I know he was a friend of yours, legendary conservative
Speaker 1: radio host see of course passed recently, and you are
Speaker 1: were really good friends from what I understand. Can you
Speaker 1: just thoughts words on Rush? I would We were friends
Speaker 1: to thirty one years. We had almost say, we kind
Speaker 1: of grew up together and I had the same mentor
Speaker 1: Roger als So Roger Roger, you know, work with Rush
Speaker 1: at the beginning when he was developing his show. He
Speaker 1: also was my political consultant when I ran some mayor.
Speaker 1: So I would be a lot of times in Roger's
Speaker 1: office and he'd be talking to Rush on the phone
Speaker 1: or we both be here together trying to chain Rush
Speaker 1: into being a radio host and plain me into being
Speaker 1: a politician. And we became good friends, and we started
Speaker 1: to play. We started to play touch football, and believe
Speaker 1: it or not, we used to play water volleyball. Imagine
Speaker 1: Russia Limbo playing water volleyball all summer. We would play
Speaker 1: every Saturday or Sunday at Roger Els plays. We played
Speaker 1: water volleyball. And then we both love golf. So for
Speaker 1: the last seven or eight years we participated every year
Speaker 1: in the in the Els for Autism tournament. We wanted
Speaker 1: two out of the ten or twelve years that we've
Speaker 1: we played with with with Marvin Shankin, so we have
Speaker 1: two trophies together. And you know, it's funny this is
Speaker 1: this is the time of year we would practice for
Speaker 1: it February because it's in March. And I really miss him.
Speaker 1: That is quite the story. And I had no idea
Speaker 1: that Roger Els was one time your mentor. Of course,
Speaker 1: Roger Els is the the founder of Fox News Channel,
Speaker 1: and makes sense why you had so much success as mayor.
Speaker 1: From a messaging standpoint, it was a genius a messaging
Speaker 1: What a genius? What a genius? I mean so and
Speaker 1: so and so, I mean and and Rush. I mean
Speaker 1: everybody wants to know why was rushed to a success.
Speaker 1: But let's start off with the fact that man was brilliant.
Speaker 1: I mean, he read, He consumed huge amounts of materials.
Speaker 1: I think I used the trump is in there, you maal.
Speaker 1: And then he had a very facile mind, very very
Speaker 1: quick mind, very logical. I always thought that the thing
Speaker 1: that made the difference for him he could explain complex
Speaker 1: things in an easy way. And then he always had
Speaker 1: a sense of humor. And I think that's why you
Speaker 1: can hold an audience I mean three hours in the
Speaker 1: middle of the day. Yeah, I never understood how he
Speaker 1: could get so many people. Unbelievable, unblood the challenging man.
Speaker 1: I think he's created a whole new discipline, a lot
Speaker 1: of ten out. But I mean he was like the
Speaker 1: first one to really do that. Absolutely tends of millions,
Speaker 1: and we remember him the guy father of radio who
Speaker 1: certainly taught a lot of young folks like myself I
Speaker 1: think or two about conservatism. So I appreciate rush Um,
Speaker 1: So thank you for sharing your thoughts on him. Now,
Speaker 1: switching gears a little bit. I know you've been the
Speaker 1: personal attorney for President Trump for years, You've known him
Speaker 1: for a long time. Have you spoken with him recently?
Speaker 1: Is he in good spirits these days? Great spirits, He's
Speaker 1: in terrific spirits. He's getting very getting very excited about
Speaker 1: his appearance at seedpac. It could got a couple of
Speaker 1: surprises in mind, which I'm gonna try really hard not
Speaker 1: to give away. And Um, I think he's I think
Speaker 1: he has spent a lot of time. You know, this
Speaker 1: is about the longest he's gone right without in a
Speaker 1: long time, without treating or he's actually given a lot
Speaker 1: of thought to where we're going as a country, where
Speaker 1: we're going as a party. I think he's gonna be
Speaker 1: a real surprised when he when he lays it out,
Speaker 1: hell well thought out it is. So I'm hearing you
Speaker 1: say that is the president about that announce campaign for president.
Speaker 1: You can tell us there's only us talking. No, No,
Speaker 1: I would I would say no, no. I don't want
Speaker 1: to set that expectation. I think it's too early could
Speaker 1: do that. I think he's sure his heck is gonna
Speaker 1: make it clear. He's pretty interested. But I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think personally, you don't decide something like that
Speaker 1: so far in advance. I do think he's gonna want
Speaker 1: to he's gonna want to have a big role in
Speaker 1: guiding the party through the twenty twenty two elections so
Speaker 1: that we get so that we get the House. We're
Speaker 1: real close in the House, and my goodness, we're right
Speaker 1: there in the Senate. But I mean the House. The House,
Speaker 1: I mean was a big surprise where we are definitely
Speaker 1: within reach of taking both houses. And I think the
Speaker 1: concentration number one for him. I think the philosophy of
Speaker 1: the party has been able to give more thought to
Speaker 1: I mean because of all of the honestly, all of
Speaker 1: the vicious treatment that he was put through it, which
Speaker 1: I I think any other man would have would have
Speaker 1: cracked under the pressure they put on put that man
Speaker 1: through it, constantly pursuing him with false charges from David
Speaker 1: when he was running. They were making up the Russian thing. Uh,
Speaker 1: he hasn't had. People don't realize what a substance of
Speaker 1: president he was. How much he got done. You do
Speaker 1: get a lot done. I mean, my goodness. He straightened
Speaker 1: at the economy. We had the best economy ever. He
Speaker 1: straightened out regulations. He knocked the regulations and has right. Yes,
Speaker 1: he completely revised foreign policy North Korea, big problem North Koreia.
Speaker 1: We can talk to legendary now historic peace agreements in
Speaker 1: the Middle East, which I hope Biby Cherry group doesn't
Speaker 1: really ruin with irresponsible agreement with the land. So I
Speaker 1: think he's gonna he's gonna. I think he's sort of
Speaker 1: switch the two political parties in a way got us
Speaker 1: to realize that the Republican Party is now the party
Speaker 1: of the people and the Democratic Party is the party
Speaker 1: of the elite. And I agree with that assessment. They
Speaker 1: certainly went from the party of perceived the little guy
Speaker 1: to definitely, how much money do you have will welcome
Speaker 1: you in. Of course, the Democratic Party is what I'm
Speaker 1: referring to. Now. It's interesting in reference in one of
Speaker 1: your earlier comments in terms of seed pack and saying
Speaker 1: that it's too early to wage something like a presidential
Speaker 1: race so early on. But if you're a guy who
Speaker 1: was in office and you had four years with the
Speaker 1: economy prosper you had the lowest unemployment rate for African
Speaker 1: Americans and minorities on record, Um, you're able to put
Speaker 1: in so many different policies that strengthened our economy, strengthened
Speaker 1: our government, cut regulations, made sure businesses could prosper. You
Speaker 1: have a record like that, and then the race. Of course,
Speaker 1: he he has been saying that the race was stolen. Um,
Speaker 1: with that be in the case, how could you not
Speaker 1: decide that you're gonna run again? Because these guys that
Speaker 1: clearly Biden isn't gonna be productive as president. We've seen
Speaker 1: that already is first three days in office, he's already
Speaker 1: eliminating a billion dollars in wages, um, killing the Keystone pipeline.
Speaker 1: I mean, people Biden voters have been finessed hoodwink, I
Speaker 1: mean Ben Boozel. So how is it the President Trump?
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's thought maybe I am absolutely going to
Speaker 1: do that. You don't think any of that's gonna come
Speaker 1: out this week? First of all, A little bit would
Speaker 1: be speculating because he hasn't really made a decision about
Speaker 1: number one about running and number two exactly how he's
Speaker 1: gonna put it, what he's gonna say, what's the right
Speaker 1: way to approach it is. I think the thing that's
Speaker 1: very clear is he's very comfortable in the role and
Speaker 1: he's going to make sure that people understand it that
Speaker 1: he's he's the leader of the Republican Party, and that
Speaker 1: he's going to make sure the Republican Party is guided
Speaker 1: by very very solid principles and keeping I keep us
Speaker 1: growing as a party of the people. I mean, I
Speaker 1: like that. I enjoy I enjoy representing the people who
Speaker 1: feel that they've been cut out by government and I've
Speaker 1: been ignored by government. And no, they don't have lobbyists,
Speaker 1: so they need to count on Donald Trump of their lobbyists.
Speaker 1: You know, I I really I think that's a very
Speaker 1: very um that's a great position to be in to
Speaker 1: grow and I think we will be able to attract
Speaker 1: a lot of young people that way too, because that's
Speaker 1: pretty exciting, you know, change, it's much more exciting and
Speaker 1: just keeping up the shame, you know, broken patent. Considering
Speaker 1: what we just experienced in terms of election, looking back
Speaker 1: on that, how do you remember the presidential campaign just
Speaker 1: pulling behind the curtain. What were some of the things
Speaker 1: that were experienced, perhaps things that people haven't heard of
Speaker 1: um at this point because it was a number of
Speaker 1: lawsuits all over the country. UM. I personally believe that
Speaker 1: the GOP should have been ringing alarm on the mail
Speaker 1: in balloting months before the election took place. That makes
Speaker 1: the most sense. And now we've had members of the
Speaker 1: party who have said so as well that they should
Speaker 1: have been ringing the alarm alarm. Can you give us
Speaker 1: any of the behind the scenes on what happened there?
Speaker 1: First of all, it was the strangest election ever, in
Speaker 1: part because of the lockdowns and shutdowns in pandemic and
Speaker 1: part because the Democrat candidate decided to spend most of
Speaker 1: the campaign in the basement. It's like boxing with somebody
Speaker 1: doesn't show up, you're in the ring and he's he's
Speaker 1: he's hiding in the dressing room, and uh so it was.
Speaker 1: It was a strange campaign in that regard. I think
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right to focus on the mail in balloting
Speaker 1: because for years we had been warned that mail, that
Speaker 1: massive mail invaliding is uh it's gonna leave the tremendous fraud.
Speaker 1: So you had a report going back to I don't know,
Speaker 1: oh five or something with Carter and um and how
Speaker 1: and Jim Acre and in it. They made a lot
Speaker 1: of recommendations coming out of you know, the two thousand election,
Speaker 1: and they said, under no circumstances should you have large
Speaker 1: scale mail in balloting, because you won't be able to
Speaker 1: protect against fraud. This is a Republican and a Democrat
Speaker 1: warning us. Seventy percent of European countries do not have
Speaker 1: any kind of mail in ballot, not even absolutely, because
Speaker 1: in one way or another they've all experienced the kind
Speaker 1: of thing that we experienced. The other basically just have
Speaker 1: the old fashioned absentee balloting, which is very very different.
Speaker 1: That's where you've got to get an after David. You
Speaker 1: have to have to signature verified. You can only do
Speaker 1: it if you're truly going to be away. So for example,
Speaker 1: I mean I may have the numbers awfu a little bit.
Speaker 1: In a place like Georgia, they had something like four
Speaker 1: hundred thousand absentee ballots. This time they had something like
Speaker 1: four millions. That may be Pennsylvania, but I think that
Speaker 1: the difference was crazy. You can't police four million mail
Speaker 1: in ballots because you don't you don't get to see
Speaker 1: the person, you don't get to identify the person. And
Speaker 1: if you don't have very very strict scrutiny of the signature,
Speaker 1: you can put in all kinds of phony ballots. And unfortunately,
Speaker 1: not even talking about this election, this has happened a
Speaker 1: lot in prior elections in this country and in other countries.
Speaker 1: So mail in balloting, which was done because of the
Speaker 1: emergency pandemic, should be done away. It was. I don't
Speaker 1: disagree with doing away with the mail in balloting absentee.
Speaker 1: I think that's obviously necessary, especially for those who serve overseas,
Speaker 1: so understand that completely in those who are away in
Speaker 1: college as well. Now, when President Trump has said that
Speaker 1: there was millions of fraudulent votes, is he saying that
Speaker 1: these are the people who went in and saw someone
Speaker 1: else's name and mailed it in. Or is he saying
Speaker 1: that because of the states, uh, disregarding the Constitution, if
Speaker 1: you will, and putting in their own mail in programs,
Speaker 1: a lot of it unconstitutional, Uh, at least from the
Speaker 1: rule of the Constitution per se. Is that what he's
Speaker 1: saying or is he talking about people are fraudently voted
Speaker 1: altogether and that caused millions of fraudulent votes. I would
Speaker 1: say he's saying vote and you know it's complicated because
Speaker 1: it's different in different states. So we really have six
Speaker 1: or seven states that are involved. Pennsylvania, which is the case. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court didn't take I thought Justice Thomas wrote
Speaker 1: a brilliant dissent. Uh. That was the state in which
Speaker 1: basically what you had was the both the courts and
Speaker 1: the governor and the Secretary of State changing the rules.
Speaker 1: They're not allowed to the Constitution of the United States
Speaker 1: says the state legislature makes the rules exclusively that section
Speaker 1: that's the article to section one cause to the Constitution,
Speaker 1: they are only the state legislation and the superb port
Speaker 1: has written on it and said that their power is
Speaker 1: plenary and it belongs only to that so so, so
Speaker 1: you have the change in rules. For example, you don't
Speaker 1: need to observe the signatures that you can cure ballots, uh,
Speaker 1: that you can you can send the vote in after
Speaker 1: election day. Um, all those change of rules, we would
Speaker 1: say we're unconstitutional. In addition to that, there's the allegation
Speaker 1: and there's people that there's evidence of this after David's
Speaker 1: and video tape and other things that showed that there
Speaker 1: were ballots that were entered to make up for the
Speaker 1: the difference, ballots that were made up after the election.
Speaker 1: So I guess you would call that more in the
Speaker 1: area of fraud. The problem was, we never got a hearing,
Speaker 1: No court would ever allow a hearing, nor have we
Speaker 1: been ever able to get any court to turn over
Speaker 1: to require the Democrats in these cities where it happened
Speaker 1: to turn over to us the actual piece of paper
Speaker 1: so we can examine it and see if it's legitimate
Speaker 1: or not. Nor have they allowed us to look at
Speaker 1: the machines. So twenty two machines were examined in Ansom County, Michigan.
Speaker 1: They were found to have all kinds of problems. So
Speaker 1: that's what he's basing it up. Now, Why is it
Speaker 1: that the Supreme Court didn't do anything about it. Where's
Speaker 1: on Amy Coney, Barrett, where is Brett Kavanaugh? Where's all
Speaker 1: these individuals who sit on the Supreme Court who are
Speaker 1: supposed to be about justice and fairness? And uh, just
Speaker 1: saying it, telling him like it is, what what happened
Speaker 1: to those Supreme Court justices in these various instances? I mean,
Speaker 1: the most recent decision just makes no sense. I mean,
Speaker 1: the recent decision would have nothing to do with this election.
Speaker 1: It would basically answer the question, which we need to know,
Speaker 1: who sets the rules? If you read the constitution, it
Speaker 1: says the state legislature sets the rules. If you look
Speaker 1: at what Pennsylvania did, the governor, the Secretary of State Democrats,
Speaker 1: and the superin court Democrat change the rules, which constitutionally
Speaker 1: they don't have the power to do. Supreme Court didn't
Speaker 1: answer that question. So now it leaves you, as Justice
Speaker 1: Thomas and Alito, of course it's said, it leaves you
Speaker 1: with no answer, I mean, whatever your politics, with an answer.
Speaker 1: And that's what's so disturbing about this, because we've got
Speaker 1: more elections coming up, and just what next year was.
Speaker 1: So with this being the case, are we supposed to continue,
Speaker 1: where bureaucrats in some cases decide what the law is
Speaker 1: not based on the constitution, like what what can people
Speaker 1: do to prevent this from happening again? Where there's a
Speaker 1: lot of ballot harvesting going on in places like Georgia,
Speaker 1: et cetera, where people are just taking their ballots, giving
Speaker 1: them to someone else and they put them in somewhere,
Speaker 1: so we don't know if fraud has taken place in
Speaker 1: between them giving a ballot and they're going to whatever court,
Speaker 1: house or election bureau, you know. And and here's here's
Speaker 1: the here's the kind of catch two with that. A
Speaker 1: lot of cases actually were brought by the Republican National
Speaker 1: Committee before the election, raising a lot of these issues,
Speaker 1: and the court said it's premature, you gotta wait until
Speaker 1: the election. And then when it was raised after the election,
Speaker 1: the court said there was no standing. So basically the
Speaker 1: message from the federal court is we don't want to
Speaker 1: have anything to do with this, But then who decides
Speaker 1: the constitutionality of it? I mean, it's it's very very frustrating.
Speaker 1: And uh here, I mean here, here are the practical
Speaker 1: things that can be done in the states where we
Speaker 1: have Republican and legislatures. They should pass laws now changing
Speaker 1: the rules to fit the problems we had in this election.
Speaker 1: They should do away with general mail in voting. They
Speaker 1: should continue with absentee voting, but under very strict rules
Speaker 1: like we used to have in the past. And the
Speaker 1: state legislation should pass these laws. In in uh democratic states,
Speaker 1: I guess the governors will veto them. In Republican states,
Speaker 1: they should get through and then we can go to
Speaker 1: court and we can say that the rules are supposed
Speaker 1: to be set by the legislature and the governors or
Speaker 1: the or the step secretaries. They have tried to take
Speaker 1: that power away and try to and try to go
Speaker 1: through those cases. You know, as soon as they do
Speaker 1: it before elections. It's really more pertinent, however, to the
Speaker 1: presidential election, because that's where the state legislature has the
Speaker 1: sole power to set the rules. And this should now
Speaker 1: get straightened out. Every legislature should realize by keeping up
Speaker 1: with this this massive four million mail in ballots, we're
Speaker 1: just leaving it open to anybody to cheat either side.
Speaker 1: It just makes no sense. Every country, seven out of
Speaker 1: ten countries have done away with it. The other the
Speaker 1: other just have absentee ballotings now, but when we come back,
Speaker 1: I want to discuss how Donald Trump changed the Republican
Speaker 1: Party in the future. The GOP will be back in
Speaker 1: a second. Now switching gears, Mr Mayor, Is the GOP
Speaker 1: now the Party of Trump? Sure? Absolutely. I mean when
Speaker 1: you look at when you expend the Party of Trump
Speaker 1: for the last five four or five years, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: he's never been below favorable rating by Republicans. Sometimes in
Speaker 1: I know, there's that very vocal group. You know that
Speaker 1: the Lincoln Project represented the vocal group of Republican anti Trumpers.
Speaker 1: But I mean when you look at the polls, the
Speaker 1: polling that makes up you know, less than of the
Speaker 1: of the Republican Party. I mean, he always had a
Speaker 1: much stronger hold on the Republican Party then for example
Speaker 1: Hilary of Biden. Their numbers as Democrats are not nearly
Speaker 1: as strong as his. So he has sinitely the leader
Speaker 1: of the party. I mean just about more than half
Speaker 1: of the members of the party. And say if he
Speaker 1: decided to leave, they go with him. Yeah. I saw
Speaker 1: that recently, and that that that's what bringing me to
Speaker 1: this question, because you know, like you mentioned a Lincoln
Speaker 1: Project for example, Trump has been a consistent conservative for
Speaker 1: the most part in terms of policy. I don't think
Speaker 1: anybody can question that. Um. The rhetoric, though, is another
Speaker 1: consideration for a lot of people, and we know that
Speaker 1: we've seen that. I think back to uh that last
Speaker 1: not even a last debate, two debates ago. I guess
Speaker 1: that was with Chris Wallace when he asked if he
Speaker 1: was going to denounce white supremacy and the Proud Boys,
Speaker 1: and he said, of course I will. That's what he said.
Speaker 1: And you said, in a number of times, he's announced
Speaker 1: white supremacy a number of times, and that's fine, that's great.
Speaker 1: But then he said, stand down, but stand by. So
Speaker 1: there's things that have come up where people are kind
Speaker 1: of scratch their head and they're they're saying, you know,
Speaker 1: within Republican circles, hey, if it was somebody on the
Speaker 1: other side, we will be going after them and condemning them.
Speaker 1: So as President Trump learned some lessons from those experiences
Speaker 1: that he had, well, I don't know, you know, one
Speaker 1: of the problems in analyzing President Trump is the unbelievable
Speaker 1: scrutiny that they put on his words. And I I've
Speaker 1: once put together a list of all of the times
Speaker 1: that he condemned white racism, white supremacy, something about almost
Speaker 1: a hundred times. And maybe he doesn't use the same
Speaker 1: words all the time, So to you, there's the words differently.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I really don't know how you solve
Speaker 1: the problem. I mean, you can't just say the thing
Speaker 1: the same way all the time. Here's what I can
Speaker 1: tell you. I've known the man for thirty years and
Speaker 1: the idea that he's a racist is ridiculous. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not not even close to He's about as not
Speaker 1: a racist as anybody I know. He's He's he is
Speaker 1: clearly a guy who judges people as people. Even in
Speaker 1: his personal life. He's got friends of you know, the
Speaker 1: joke used to be among his golf buddies. Trump has
Speaker 1: no caller problems. The only caller he really prefers is green.
Speaker 1: When he was a business, if you were a black
Speaker 1: guy or a Chinese guy, or a white guy or
Speaker 1: a woman, or you can make money, He's gonna be
Speaker 1: a partner if you're screw up, no matter who you were.
Speaker 1: He wasn't too happy with it, that's all. But he's
Speaker 1: the guy, the guy, So sometimes sometimes appartularly the beginning.
Speaker 1: He would have trouble with the new language, you know,
Speaker 1: the woke language. We have words. He was supposed to
Speaker 1: say them certain ways, and we don't say him exactly
Speaker 1: the right way. We get accused of being a homophobe
Speaker 1: or something else, or something else or something else. I
Speaker 1: don't think he he understood that language. It kind of
Speaker 1: got used to it after a while. But but it
Speaker 1: was really the desire to try to rip him apart.
Speaker 1: If you look at if you look at Biden, the
Speaker 1: things that Biden has said, you can make a much
Speaker 1: better case that bides the racist well. And we we
Speaker 1: we can definitely go into that because I don't disagree.
Speaker 1: Now my question to you, Mr Mayor, do you condemn
Speaker 1: all forms of white supremacy and hate no matter where
Speaker 1: it exists? Of course, I just condemn all forms of racism.
Speaker 1: I consider that racist, and that's what President Trump should do.
Speaker 1: That's right there. I can damn all forms and that
Speaker 1: will be it. Who cares about what these the phil
Speaker 1: still consider themselves the most woke are the ones who
Speaker 1: are truly asleep. These are these are walking zombies in
Speaker 1: a lot of cases, this this woke trash it's it's
Speaker 1: it's it's democratic talking points being pushed left and right,
Speaker 1: and what you realized in from a lot of these Democrats,
Speaker 1: especially these white liberals, they're sometimes the most racist people
Speaker 1: you can find. So I'm not confused about that at all.
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure when we're talking about
Speaker 1: President Trump and and I've been a lot of his
Speaker 1: policies have been so positively impactful for me and my family,
Speaker 1: and I think, hey, from a policy standpoint, has been
Speaker 1: the most impactful, especially for African Americans. From a policy standpoint,
Speaker 1: the rhetoric doesn't always add up, but the policy does,
Speaker 1: so I'd rather go with policy over rhetoric. In your
Speaker 1: point on Joe Biden was absolutely absolutely spot on. I mean,
Speaker 1: this guy, if you don't vote for me, then you
Speaker 1: ain't black, and a number of other comments that he's
Speaker 1: made over the core to this what forty fifty years
Speaker 1: in office, it paints a very bleak picture and one
Speaker 1: that if Democrats, if you take the democratic label off
Speaker 1: of them and made him a Republican, they would be
Speaker 1: calling him a racist all day long. So I'm not
Speaker 1: confused about that. No, I don't, and I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not please, I'm not calling him a racers. I
Speaker 1: don't I don't like doing I don't calling anybody that.
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you, if you wanted to take his
Speaker 1: words and play with them, there's a lot more there
Speaker 1: than there is probably for almost anybody else. You know,
Speaker 1: all through the years he's made comments. But I mean, Joe,
Speaker 1: I don't know what's wrong with Joe now, but Joe
Speaker 1: has never been the clearest guy, honestly, the brightest guy.
Speaker 1: So I attributed to not the way he feels. But
Speaker 1: he makes mistakes, big ones. Yeah, no question about that.
Speaker 1: And now he's been in office for a little over
Speaker 1: a month. What do you make of his presidency so far?
Speaker 1: Give him a letter grade idea? I mean it's been
Speaker 1: a I don't even think it's it's been a presidency
Speaker 1: by executive order. I mean he signed like fifty or
Speaker 1: more executive orders. Most of those things are supposed to
Speaker 1: be submitted to Congress so we can debate them, and
Speaker 1: the left wing media lets them get away with it.
Speaker 1: It's almost acting like, you know, we got one. We
Speaker 1: only have one branch of government him and he just
Speaker 1: signs these things all of a sudden. Eleven thousand jobs
Speaker 1: are gone and nobody can get to discuss the talk
Speaker 1: about it. Then, Uh, the Paris Climate Accords, no discussion
Speaker 1: of whether China and India are gonna have to live
Speaker 1: by those standards. So we just gave him a trillion
Speaker 1: dollar break, no discussion of it. I thought we were
Speaker 1: a democracy. And the thing that amazes me the most
Speaker 1: Chatti is that that the press doesn't pick these things up.
Speaker 1: If Trump had come into off signed fifty executive orders
Speaker 1: doing the same thing, but in the other direction, they
Speaker 1: would have they would have impeached him, right then, right,
Speaker 1: they say, get the time of a dictator. You just
Speaker 1: became a dictator. Yeah, absolutely, no question about that. What
Speaker 1: do you think about his planning to legalize eleven million people?
Speaker 1: Are these individuals that Democrats hope to make voters that
Speaker 1: they can continue to win every election without any doubt?
Speaker 1: I think I think the I think it is quite clear,
Speaker 1: even clearer than it ever has been for me, that
Speaker 1: this whole immigration policy of the Democrats is purely a
Speaker 1: political policy. I don't think it has anything to do
Speaker 1: with the good of the country. It has to do
Speaker 1: with how can we maintain control, how can we get
Speaker 1: more votes, how can we make more people dependent so
Speaker 1: they have to vote for us. Why would you take
Speaker 1: eleven thousand, eleven million people, even even the ones that
Speaker 1: are productive and doing a good job, but I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of them are, a lot aren't. But the
Speaker 1: minute you do that, you're gonna encourage another eleven million
Speaker 1: people of come plus plus. We're telling people, if you
Speaker 1: come here illegally, will pay your health insurance. I mean,
Speaker 1: the people are aligning up the thousands in Nicaragua, in
Speaker 1: Central America, We're gonna pay come to America, will pay
Speaker 1: your health insurance. I mean, I don't get it. It
Speaker 1: has to be a political strategy. I don't know how
Speaker 1: we pay for it. We've got a tremendous debt. Health
Speaker 1: insurance is normously expensive, and we're gonna pay for people
Speaker 1: that just come come here illegally. They just walk in
Speaker 1: and say, give me my health health program. I don't
Speaker 1: understand how dash anything other than a crash political move
Speaker 1: to add up the Democrat vote as much as possible.
Speaker 1: And I'm fully supportive of Dreamers being taken care of,
Speaker 1: which is what you know, people that come in no
Speaker 1: fault of their own, which is what President Trump tried
Speaker 1: to do. But Democrats wanted to use it as a
Speaker 1: wedge issue for the election, so they never made a
Speaker 1: deal on it. Um, do you believe that number is
Speaker 1: truly eleven million? Or is it much more than that?
Speaker 1: Because that eleven million number has been consistent for what
Speaker 1: five eight years? Is something beyond that? It has been
Speaker 1: a long time they've been saying eleven million. I you know, Look,
Speaker 1: how do I know? And how do they know? Right?
Speaker 1: Let me, I'll give you one thing about the election.
Speaker 1: Think about this in Arizona, which Biden on paper theoretically
Speaker 1: won by eleven eleven thousand votes, which is nothing right,
Speaker 1: eleven thousand votes. They do not account for any illegal
Speaker 1: immigrant voting. Now, Arizona has a large illegal population. Given
Speaker 1: where it is, right, we know that. You mean, none
Speaker 1: of them voted, not a single one, and they never
Speaker 1: bought them to check. Part of the lawsuit there was
Speaker 1: to get them to check. So there were estimates done,
Speaker 1: but they're just estimates. Now, this is not evidence. These
Speaker 1: are estimates that there were thirty or forty thousand that voted,
Speaker 1: but they never went back and checked. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the danger that you that you create. You have
Speaker 1: illegal people here, some of them do vote and it
Speaker 1: kind of cancels out the vote of people who were citizens,
Speaker 1: and that's not fair. Mm hmm. Did this I think
Speaker 1: we regularized or sect as early nineties something like four
Speaker 1: or five million people and the number then was that
Speaker 1: they were six million the illegals. Well, we did that
Speaker 1: and then it doubled to twelve min So even if
Speaker 1: it is twelve million, if we do it again in
Speaker 1: ten years a little bit twenty minute, how do we
Speaker 1: how do we take care of the people that here?
Speaker 1: If we do that, Yeah, especially during the pandemic, it
Speaker 1: didn't make sense for for the country to be sending
Speaker 1: billions and dollars to other countries when we got poor
Speaker 1: people here. That we need to take care of our
Speaker 1: middle class folks who may become poor because of states
Speaker 1: like California and New York. Uh that I have shut
Speaker 1: down business and caused them to go into bankruptcy. You know,
Speaker 1: we'll forgive your student loans. Then basically we're just people
Speaker 1: take for all of your college education to everybody in
Speaker 1: the country. So what should the gop P do to
Speaker 1: to bring people back into the party, To bring people
Speaker 1: back into the Republican Party, People like New Gingwich advocated
Speaker 1: during the Georgia special runoffs, uh that Mitch McConnell should
Speaker 1: have sent into two thousand dollar checks. Of course he didn't,
Speaker 1: and people like nude and actually President Trump had said
Speaker 1: that's part of the reason why we lost Georgia. Do
Speaker 1: you agree with that assessment? And what can we do
Speaker 1: to bring people back into the vote. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about dude, it's I know, it's
Speaker 1: a formula that everyone talks about and but it was.
Speaker 1: But he did it brilliantly in taking over the Congress,
Speaker 1: the House when when we didn't have it for a
Speaker 1: couple of generations. That is, we we told the people
Speaker 1: the Contract with America. We told the people what are big, big,
Speaker 1: sprawling party stands for. And when Nute got into office,
Speaker 1: he tried to do it. He didn't do all of it,
Speaker 1: but he tried to do all of it. Same thing
Speaker 1: with Donald Trump. He told the people what he was
Speaker 1: gonna do. He basically almost did all except the points
Speaker 1: they blocked, and had he been re elected, he would
Speaker 1: have done the rest of it. I think that's I
Speaker 1: think that's the best way to run for office. We
Speaker 1: should sit out as a party with the President the
Speaker 1: president's died, because he's the leader, and we should set
Speaker 1: out a group of principles once we think of the
Speaker 1: most important and say this is what we're gonna do
Speaker 1: for the country. If you like it, come and join us.
Speaker 1: Let's take over the House and Senate. Obviously, things like
Speaker 1: let's get control of immigration, let's have control of our borders.
Speaker 1: Let's let's make certain that we get taxes down to
Speaker 1: the lowest possible number, not the highest possible number. And
Speaker 1: there are a lot of differences between us. I think
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna end up with a very big
Speaker 1: difference over Iran in the Iran Agreement. But we could
Speaker 1: set out eight or ten principles like that around which
Speaker 1: people can see that our party is the party they
Speaker 1: agree with. I think that would be the best thing
Speaker 1: that we could do over the next year or so.
Speaker 1: We don't have to do it exactly the way New
Speaker 1: did it. Issues have changed, but that was a very
Speaker 1: useful approach for for New and in a way it
Speaker 1: was a very useful approach for Trump in fifteen and sixteen,
Speaker 1: where he laid out what he was going to do
Speaker 1: under the under the symbol of make America great Again,
Speaker 1: America first write out what he was gonna do. He
Speaker 1: came into office, he tried to do it, and he
Speaker 1: did most of them. Okay. And in speaking of your
Speaker 1: point at immigration, you just mentioned people like and Coulter
Speaker 1: has said part of the reason that Trump, she believed
Speaker 1: Trump lost is because he didn't finish out the wall
Speaker 1: like uh, he said that he would. Is that a
Speaker 1: part of the two term approach or should he have
Speaker 1: gotten it done in one term. I don't think anybody
Speaker 1: held against him the fact that he They saw the
Speaker 1: opposition that he had to it. Ronal Ray I worked
Speaker 1: for Ronald Reagan, and he taught me this, nobody's gonna
Speaker 1: get angry at you if you promise something and you
Speaker 1: try your hardest to do it and they stop you,
Speaker 1: as long as you keep adding and you don't give up.
Speaker 1: So he tried everything he good to get that wall done,
Speaker 1: including that whole deal over dreamers, and the whole idea
Speaker 1: was you give me the wall, I'll give you what
Speaker 1: you want. I'll let you, I'll let you take care
Speaker 1: of the people that are here in a generous way
Speaker 1: as long as I can make sure a lot of
Speaker 1: new people don't come in and bankrupt us or create
Speaker 1: problems for us. I mean that. I mean, plus, you
Speaker 1: didn't get a lot of the wall done. And I
Speaker 1: have no doubt if you gave him four more years
Speaker 1: he would get it done. But you can never get
Speaker 1: done all the things you want to do. I mean,
Speaker 1: I became mayor on a set of principles that I
Speaker 1: want to accomplish. In some areas I accomplished much more
Speaker 1: than I I thought i'd ever do. In some areas
Speaker 1: I wasn't able to do it. I couldn't get to support.
Speaker 1: But are you honest with people? This is what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do. Try to do it, and I think Ronald
Speaker 1: Reagan used to say, if you can get a seven,
Speaker 1: you're very, very successful. That's interesting. Let's pause for a
Speaker 1: quick break now, but when we come back, want to
Speaker 1: ask you about your time as mayor, how the crime
Speaker 1: replummeted during your tenure, and your thoughts on stopping for
Speaker 1: as back in a moment. It turned out a law
Speaker 1: and order, an issue that you're intimately familiar with as
Speaker 1: as an attorney and of course as the mayor who
Speaker 1: cleaned up the streets to New York. Last year, murder
Speaker 1: rates skyrocketed across the country. In fact, according to the FBI,
Speaker 1: that was twenty nine percent increase in murders nationwide over
Speaker 1: the first nine months compared to the same period in
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. And according to a study from the National
Speaker 1: Commission of COVID nineteen in Criminal Justice, homicide rates jumped
Speaker 1: by thirty from twenty nineteen, and some of America's major
Speaker 1: cities the increase was much higher. Of course, you know
Speaker 1: a lot about what what has happened in New York.
Speaker 1: What do you think caused this surge? Was it COVID,
Speaker 1: Was police budgets decreased? It should be just the op
Speaker 1: when we've had when we've had like um, major catastrophes
Speaker 1: and things, crime goes down. People are too the people
Speaker 1: are too consumed with it or crime crimes should have
Speaker 1: gone down. In fact, other crimes did go down. But
Speaker 1: the increase in violence I think has to do with
Speaker 1: the changes that we made in the laws and the
Speaker 1: approach that we took. I know my state and city
Speaker 1: the best, right because I reduced crime in New York
Speaker 1: more than any other mayor ever. So it's something I
Speaker 1: know about. Basically, we have a increase in homicide, increase
Speaker 1: in shootings. We never have had anything like that before.
Speaker 1: That's a record. And the reason is the governor, Governor
Speaker 1: Cuomo passed and no bail law. So we probably had
Speaker 1: eight nine thousand more criminals on the street than we
Speaker 1: should and the mayor used COVID as an excuse to
Speaker 1: empty our prisons. So we got probably twenty criminals on
Speaker 1: the street that shouldn't be there, and they're going around,
Speaker 1: they're making our subways. Subway ridership is down sev and
Speaker 1: subway crime violent crime is up like thirty or forty
Speaker 1: percent per capita. That's ridiculous. But uh, and then and
Speaker 1: then you have in a lot of these cities, you
Speaker 1: have sorrow selected district attorneys. Don't put anybody in jail.
Speaker 1: Let him out of jail. You look at look at Chicago.
Speaker 1: Every weekend you get you get fatality numbers like we're
Speaker 1: in a war. You get ten people, that, fifteen people that,
Speaker 1: twenty people there. And you got a district attorney there
Speaker 1: who's you know, left of left of left. He's a
Speaker 1: pro criminal rights district attorney. So who's representing the people.
Speaker 1: This is a political problem. It's a problem that comes
Speaker 1: out of political policies of the Democrat Party that has
Speaker 1: become enormously accommodating criminals, criminals rights, not putting anybody in
Speaker 1: jail anymore, letting him out of jail very soon. And
Speaker 1: then a police to police departments that are completely demoralized,
Speaker 1: that fielded they can't take action because whatever they do
Speaker 1: is going to be misunderstood and used against them. Now,
Speaker 1: you were incredibly successful as mayor of New York you,
Speaker 1: Lord Crown, You introduced crime stat um. You also continued
Speaker 1: enhancement of police techniques, one of them being stopping frisk.
Speaker 1: And Michael Bloomberg, who succeeded you as mayor, he really
Speaker 1: pushed forth with stopping frisk, and a lot of folks
Speaker 1: have had issues with that, and I'm talking specifically about
Speaker 1: Michael Bloomberg. They had issues when you did it as well.
Speaker 1: But Fox News Business Hols Charles Paine said, Um, just
Speaker 1: last year, he said, Um, this is an example of
Speaker 1: Michael Bloomberg stopping first policy. He thinks that it's a
Speaker 1: particular displaying disdain for African Americans and he doesn't want
Speaker 1: to see his child be stopped by the police for
Speaker 1: no reason at all, quote unquote, so to speak. So
Speaker 1: quotunately for you, do you steal supported stopping frisk or No?
Speaker 1: I do, But I mean I I support it the
Speaker 1: way I did it, not the way he did it.
Speaker 1: The differences I started it. I started it with with
Speaker 1: the Bill Bratton. It was very successful in reducing murder.
Speaker 1: We reduced murder. It's not the only thing we did,
Speaker 1: but we reduced murder by sixties. But we only UH
Speaker 1: the highest number I ever had in any given year
Speaker 1: was under a hundred thousands. What happened is that Mike
Speaker 1: used it way too much. They were up to six
Speaker 1: hundred thousand. So think about that. I mean, six thousand
Speaker 1: people stopped in frisk. You're gonna make a lot more mistakes,
Speaker 1: maybe the differences, and I you know, I think Mike
Speaker 1: did basically a good job as mayor. I don't criticize
Speaker 1: him a lot, but I do think they let it
Speaker 1: get out of control. Stopping frisk is an application of
Speaker 1: the Terry case. You have to be very very strict
Speaker 1: about having reasonable suspicion. You have to record it, you
Speaker 1: have to write it down, and you've got to discipline it.
Speaker 1: And we did that. And I'll tell you our policy
Speaker 1: was reviewed by UH Janet Reno and and uh get
Speaker 1: any attorney general holder, and they found that it was constitutional.
Speaker 1: Over the last year I was in office, because that
Speaker 1: Justice Farmer wanted to bring a case against us, and
Speaker 1: I asked to see them, and I spent two hours
Speaker 1: and I showed them how we did it, and they
Speaker 1: agreed and didn't bring the case because we had very,
Speaker 1: very detailed records of legitimate reasonable suspicion. If you do
Speaker 1: it with six thousand people, you're gonna make a lot
Speaker 1: of mistakes. And that was the problem. A lot of
Speaker 1: people were stopped and they didn't have a gun, they
Speaker 1: didn't have drugs. I think they were down to something
Speaker 1: like ten or five percent actually had something that's that
Speaker 1: gets stopped without anything. So in essence, by overdoing it,
Speaker 1: they really did a lot of harm to a good practice.
Speaker 1: And the New York Times reported that between two thousand
Speaker 1: and four and between twelve point four four point four
Speaker 1: three million people were stopped about those were black and
Speaker 1: Hispanic people, and as you mentioned, they were stopped in
Speaker 1: release with no officer funding anything. So I get your point.
Speaker 1: I love to jump into that conversation with you again
Speaker 1: in the future. Know that we only hate you for
Speaker 1: a short period of time and you're very very busy man.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining out Loud with Joan
Speaker 1: don't call about this to me. Thank you absolutely, Thank
Speaker 1: you to Ruby Giuniani for a great interview. If you're
Speaker 1: enjoying the show, please leave us a review and rate
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Speaker 1: Ginger Street, sixt dot com and I'll try to answer
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