1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Hey, it's akshat. I'm headed to Davos this week, reporting 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: from the swisky village about how world leaders, finance chiefs, 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: and business heads are thinking about climate change. In the meantime, 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: I want to share an episode we published this time 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: last year. It's an interview with Gail Weightman of Arctic 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: Base Camp. Every year she camps outside in an Arctic 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: science tent at the World Economic Forum to get the 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: Arctic and climate change on the agenda. It's a good 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: history of Davos and how climate change became a central 10 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: topic at the conference. So I'm sharing it again this week. 11 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: Welcome to Zero. I'm Akshatrati. This week thin ice, missing 12 00:00:49,040 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: snow and a party for billionaires. Next week I'll be 13 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 2: going to Davos, a ski resort town in Switzerland. But 14 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: I'm not telling you about my holiday is that one 15 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: week in January where Davos becomes the home of the 16 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: World Economic Forum's annual meeting, an invite only gathering of CEOs, billionaires, 17 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 2: select political leaders, and increasingly climate people. That's not always 18 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 2: been the case. As recently as twenty fourteen, climate didn't 19 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 2: even get a mention in the executive summary. That is 20 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: sent to attendees before the meeting starts, and now Climate 21 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: has broken through, with more than a quarter of the 22 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: main panel discussions tied to climate issues one way or another. 23 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: It's disorienting to be a climate journalist at Davos. On 24 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 2: the one hand, you are close to the people who 25 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: have power or money or both to make the decisions 26 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: that can change the fate of the climate. The twenty 27 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 2: twenty meeting, which was the last big one before the 28 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: world shut down to deal with the pandemic, had one 29 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: hundred and nineteen billionaires and fifty three heads of state attending. 30 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: On the other hand, Davos is a petri dish for 31 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: innovations in greenwashing. That same twenty twenty meeting ended with 32 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: Davos attornees failing to find a consensus around carbon taxis, 33 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 2: but it closed with a widely applauded initiative to plant 34 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: one trillion trees. There is little doubt that the business 35 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: world listens closely to what happens in Davos. So how 36 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 2: did climate get to Davos? What made the world's business 37 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: elite take notice. One person that deserves credit is Gail Whiteman. 38 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 2: She's a professor of sustainability at the University of Exeter's 39 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 2: Business School, and she physically brought climate science to Davos 40 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen by giving climate scientists a space to 41 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: present their data. She called it the Arctic Base Camp. 42 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: The Arctic Base Camp is housed in an act polar 43 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 2: tent used for Arctic exploration. Gail pitched the tent not 44 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,119 Speaker 2: too far from the main venue and has camped there 45 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 2: every year since. It's not the most comfortable approach, but 46 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: getting to Davos means unparalleled exposure to world leaders. 47 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 3: We were packing up the tent and we saw there's 48 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 3: a ton of security, so really, you know, guys, we've 49 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 3: guns everywhere and snipers and so on. So we knew 50 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 3: somebody fancy was going to be around. And then we 51 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 3: saw mister Netanya, who walking by. 52 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: Head of State of Israel at the time. 53 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: Yes, he was absolutely and he walked up to me 54 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: and he said, what the heck are you doing here 55 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 3: with this big arctic tent And I said, well, we 56 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 3: are Arctic scientists and we're bringing a message of climate 57 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 3: risk to global leaders. And he said you're sleeping here 58 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 3: and I said, yeah, we are. We slept here for 59 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 3: three nights. Davos gives you the opportunity where you can 60 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 3: make those unusual moments and just speak science to power. 61 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: The tent is not a stunt. Davos is exclusive and 62 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: accommodation at the meeting can run into the thousands of dollars. 63 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 2: The tent was Gail's way of making things work, and 64 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: she filled the tent with climate scientists and youth activists, 65 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: people who couldn't normally afford to go. I wanted to 66 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 2: talk to Gail about how she brought climate change to Davos, 67 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 2: the limits of raising awareness among the elites, and what 68 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 2: needs to happen for the Arctic Base Camp to succeed. Gil, 69 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:38,679 Speaker 2: welcome to the show. 70 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me ak Shat, it's great to be here. 71 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: Now. Tell us about the Arctic Based Camp. What it is, 72 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: maybe starting with your motto, which is what happens in 73 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 2: the Arctic doesn't stay in the Arctic. 74 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 3: So Arctic Based Camp is a science communication platform. We're 75 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 3: not for profit, and that's right. That is our motto 76 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 3: that what happens in the Arctic doesn't stay there, and 77 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 3: in fact it's really a barometer of global risks. So 78 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 3: our mission and the reason why we set up Arctic 79 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 3: Based Camp at Davos in twenty seventeen was we felt 80 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 3: that we needed to speak science to power and communicate 81 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 3: all the global risks that were hitting the planet coming 82 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:18,799 Speaker 3: from the Arctic and in fact coming from the polar 83 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:19,799 Speaker 3: regions more generally. 84 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: Now the very existence of the Arctic Based Camp is 85 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: tied to Davos, and we're going to talk a lot 86 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 2: about Davos. 87 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 3: Now. 88 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 2: Davos is a town in Switzerland which happens to host 89 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 2: the World Economic Forum every year, but it's also a 90 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: shorthand for something else. Help me describe for the listener 91 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: what we are referencing when we say Davos. 92 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 3: Well, it's funny because I think there's probably a couple 93 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 3: of groups in the world those that when you say 94 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 3: the word DeVos, they immediately get the desire like, oh, 95 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 3: I've got to get there. I want to join the elite, 96 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 3: the top of business, the top of policy and government, 97 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 3: and the top of media to somehow get to the 98 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 3: place where the move and shakers have been meetings since. 99 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 4: I think nineteen seventy one. 100 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 3: There's another group that will say, if you say the 101 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 3: word Davos, they'll say, oh, that's where all the elite 102 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 3: go not to try and save the planet or fix 103 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 3: the problems, but actually just to make their lovely life 104 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 3: that much more lovely. And maybe there's another group that 105 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 3: have never heard of Davos at all, but the Davos 106 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 3: that we want to talk to, and the reason why 107 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: we go there is it is actually the place where 108 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 3: the World Economic Forum convenes people that have power from 109 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 3: all different stakeholder groups, and the mission in many ways 110 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 3: has I think shifted over time from just trying to 111 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 3: make the world a more economically viable place into actually 112 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 3: a more sustainable place. Of course, not all of them 113 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 3: around the program yet, but increasingly a number of them are. 114 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 3: So we go to try and influence that group that 115 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 3: have power, that are interested in really getting us to 116 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 3: a safer space and a low carbon economy, and really 117 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 3: try and show them just what the heck is happening 118 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 3: in the Arctic and the scale and speed of change 119 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: that is happening this January. 120 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 2: Right, it's supposed to be a ski town, we are 121 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: likely not going to see any snow because of the 122 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: massive heat wave that has happened in Europe over the 123 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 2: Christmas period. In the first week of January, what do 124 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: you think that does to the people who come to 125 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: Davos Now where between a quarter and a third of 126 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: all the big panels that happen inside the Davos Tent 127 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 2: are tied to climate change. 128 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 3: Well, I hope it shocks the hell out of them. 129 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, Switzerland in the winter should have snow. 130 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 3: We have been camping outside of Davos except for this 131 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 3: May when we were there, of course, and it was 132 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 3: alpine summer. 133 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 4: There's always snow. 134 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 3: Now sometimes there's too much snow we have to dig 135 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 3: ourselves in and out of our base camp tent. But 136 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 3: it has never been the situation that we are going 137 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 3: to be facing this year. And I hope it's a 138 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 3: real reality check that it's not that climate change somehow 139 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 3: has to be addressed by twenty thirty, which people sort 140 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 3: of think it does, like, well, okay, we've got to 141 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 3: get half emissions by twenty thirty. So people are thinking 142 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 3: that we still have time, We still have time, and 143 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 3: this should be a wake up call. 144 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 2: But now climate impacts are happening everywhere. That goes from 145 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: hurricanes in America to droughts in the Horn of Africa 146 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: to heat waves in Europe. Why is it that you 147 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 2: wanted to bring the Arctic to Dabbos and not all 148 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: climate impacts. 149 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 3: Well, in fact, we are bringing all the climate impacts 150 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 3: to DeVos, because what happens in the Arctic is driving 151 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 3: those impacts all around the world. So the Arctic is 152 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 3: in many ways a remote and incredibly beautiful place that 153 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 3: seems sort of far away, and maybe if you're a 154 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 3: Canadian like me, or if you are a polar bear lover, 155 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 3: you pay attention to what's going on in the Arctic, 156 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 3: but it is a really important place in the global 157 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 3: climate system. So the snow and ice in the Arctic 158 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 3: acts really is a big insurance policy on runaway climate change, 159 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 3: and as it has changed, as it has melted and thought, 160 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 3: in fact, that has ramped up global climate change throughout 161 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 3: the world, particularly extreme weather in the middle latitudes. So 162 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 3: if you're worried about wildfires in California, you're worried about, 163 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 3: you know, the polared vortex in the east coast of 164 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: the US, or the extreme heat wave that we had 165 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 3: in Europe this summer and that we're having right now. 166 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 3: But also the shifting you know, monsoon patterns and typhoon 167 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 3: patterns throughout the Asian side of the world. That's the 168 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 3: Arctic calling and that's just the starting place. 169 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 2: Let's do a Arctic climate science one oh one. The 170 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 2: measure that often has talked about is sea ice coverage. 171 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: Why is it that that measure how much of the 172 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 2: Arctic is covered by sea ice is so important? 173 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 3: Well, I think it's a good question, you know, a 174 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 3: social scientist myself, I had to really do arctech science 175 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 3: one oh one, and I've got some amazing world class 176 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 3: colleagues that have really helped me understand why the sea ice, 177 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 3: in particular the summer sea ice is so important. 178 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 4: The first of all, the ice when it's there and 179 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 4: the snow. 180 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 3: Is white, and the sun light comes in from space 181 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 3: and it hits the white and it most of it 182 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 3: bounces back up. So the ice itself, the ice cover 183 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 3: and the snow cover are really important because there are 184 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 3: a protective barrier from that heat getting into the oceans 185 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 3: or onto the land. That's the albedo effect that we've 186 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 3: heard about, you know, in al Gore's film, and everybody 187 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 3: talks about now the summer in the Arctic, there's always 188 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 3: some melt, of course, because it's warmer than it is 189 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 3: in deep winter, right when the ice is the thickest 190 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 3: and has the biggest extent. But the real read is 191 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 3: that in the summer, how small it's getting. And that's 192 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 3: the worrying sign. So it's not this fluctuation that you've 193 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 3: had a we have a little bit of that dark 194 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 3: ocean showing up. 195 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, So it accelerates, right, because if you lose sea ice, 196 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: then you're going to get more sunlight not being reflected 197 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 2: by the white snow but in instead being captured by 198 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: the dark sea, and that heats of the sea even more. 199 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 2: That causes melting even more, and then it. 200 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 3: Starts to change things like the circulation system of both 201 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 3: the oceans but also the jet stream, and that's how 202 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 3: extreme weather starts to change. 203 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 2: And we can connect those jet stream fluctuations to things 204 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 2: like the polar votex, which holds this cold typically inside 205 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: the Arctic, then sometimes escapes, like we saw in the 206 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 2: US when there was a cold snap in December, pushing 207 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 2: temperatures in the negative in places like Texas. And if 208 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 2: the polar votex doesn't flow as well as it does, 209 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 2: it also causes heat waves like the one that we've 210 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 2: just seen in Europe, which has melted all the snow 211 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: indavors exactly. 212 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 3: So it regulates that global climate system that gives us 213 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 3: the weather that we're kind of used to, and then 214 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 3: we start to see things get really strange. So parts 215 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 3: of Switzerland this week have been twenty degrees celsius. That 216 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 3: is not a Swiss January, let me tell you. So 217 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 3: it's just completely different, which means there's knock on effects. 218 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 3: It's not just that you can't ski as much as 219 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 3: you might want. It's also that the whole biodiversity chain changes, 220 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 3: because then trees start to think it's spring, or so 221 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 3: do flies and other species. But there's also some really 222 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 3: specific things that can happen that need to happen in 223 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 3: the Arctic that aren't happening. The first is that as 224 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 3: shipping opens up, there's a real need to get rid 225 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 3: of heavy fuel used. 226 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 2: By ships, right because these heavy fuels are really polluting, 227 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 2: and when they burn that fuel to ships, they pump 228 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 2: out all these really bad particles, dark particles onto snow, 229 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: which makes snow darker and does makes it easier to 230 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 2: melt exactly. 231 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 3: Or the idea is that oh as the Arctic melts, 232 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 3: we can get at oil and gas deposits that are there, 233 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 3: and yet that's going to be you know, catastrophic, so 234 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 3: don't do that. So it's a side of short lived 235 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 3: economic games for some companies or some countries, and yet 236 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 3: the rest will pay the price because the price tags 237 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 3: are coming are not necessarily being felt by those that 238 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 3: could gain from it. And there's lots of other things. 239 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 3: We know that the big wild card is permafrost. So 240 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 3: much of Siberia and certainly parts of Canada and the 241 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 3: US in Alaska have permafrost which in that has carbon 242 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 3: stored frozen and as it thaws, it releases methane, which 243 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 3: is a much more concentrated greenhouse gas. 244 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 4: But there's almost no. 245 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 3: Direct sensors monitoring that situation that looks like it is 246 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 3: potentially destabilizing as well. I think the whole of the 247 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 3: Arctic terrestrial area we've got only two hundred and fifty 248 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 3: on the ground sensors, which would be like one sensor 249 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 3: per state of West Virginia or the whole country of Ireland. 250 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 3: Like you can't it's not like you can get your 251 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 3: cholesterol measured by having your neighbor down the roads lesterial 252 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 3: measure and that means act shot you're okay, we actually 253 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 3: need more measurement of something so important. 254 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 2: Now, once you decided to go to Davos, because the 255 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 2: Arctic needed to be talked about at Davos. Was it 256 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 2: as easy as buying a ticket and submitting a panel 257 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 2: idea and then they will be like, yes, that's a 258 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 2: really good topic. It's very important, we should talk about it. Gail, 259 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: please come along and set up a panel. 260 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 4: Oh my god. 261 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 3: No, no, it was not at all an easy process, 262 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 3: and in fact how it started off was I was 263 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 3: actually in Tromso, so I was in part of the 264 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 3: Arctic Circle in Norway at an academic conference. I'm a 265 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 3: social scientist and I have worked my entire career collectively 266 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 3: and collaboratively with the natural scientists around the world, so 267 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 3: I bring in the natural science into discussions of global risk, 268 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 3: particularly in. 269 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 4: Boardrooms around the world. 270 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 3: So I was in Tromso and the conference at the 271 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 3: time in twenty eleven was on tipping point, and all 272 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 3: the Arctic natural scientists were absolutely worried about the global 273 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 3: implications at that time. 274 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 4: And that's over a decade ago now. 275 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 3: And I said, you know, why are we talking about 276 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 3: this in the Artic And they said. 277 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 4: But that's where it's happening. 278 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 3: And I said, yeah, but when you're talking global tipping points, 279 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 3: the globe is not here. 280 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 4: And that's when the light bulb moment for me was 281 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 4: I said, we have to go to Davos. 282 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 3: And then my fellow colleagues in the natural scientists said 283 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 3: a couple of different things. 284 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 4: First of all, they said, what is Davos. 285 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 2: For example, you know a group that hadn't heard of Damas. 286 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they're like, well, what is that? Exactly? An explained. 287 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 4: And then some of them who knew what Davos was. 288 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 3: And then there was another group that also said, well, 289 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 3: we do know what Davos is, but we're not sure. 290 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 3: That's the role of science, And again this is over 291 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 3: a decade ago. So scientists felt that their role was 292 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 3: to do research, a rigorously peer review and publish it. 293 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 3: And I certainly agree with that wholeheartedly. But in order 294 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 3: order to get the implications of that research out, we 295 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 3: have to sometimes go to places that we don't know 296 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 3: where we are. So I very bravely said, you we've 297 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 3: got to go to the World Economic Forum, we have 298 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 3: to go to Davas. 299 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 4: Let's go. 300 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 3: And I had worked a little bit with the World 301 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 3: Economic Forum, and I went down that summer to talk 302 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 3: to some folks that I knew there, and they were 303 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 3: very interested, I have to. 304 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 2: Say, and this is we're talking. 305 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're talking twenty eleven, twenty twelve. 306 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it was starting. 307 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 3: Climate change was starting to be on the agenda, but 308 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 3: again just sort of starting. But the Arctic was really 309 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 3: seen as a niche part of that storyline, and there 310 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 3: was a bit of work that was being done on 311 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 3: the Arctic which was more about who owned the mineral 312 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 3: rights or shipping this kind of stuff. So internally there 313 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 3: was this idea, of course that it's a rich place 314 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 3: of natural resources. 315 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 2: So you go to the World Economic Forum and there 316 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: is some interest in the ocade, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, so 317 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 2: then what happens next? 318 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 3: But it wasn't on the official program, but I did 319 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 3: know that there was a series of side events, so 320 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 3: I thought, well, we'll just do a side event. I 321 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 3: completely under estimated the fact that you can't get a 322 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 3: place to stay at Davos. 323 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 4: The hotels are booked. 324 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 3: Out in advance, and the World Economic Forum has guests 325 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 3: who get the chance to book those rooms, and there's 326 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 3: absolutely no way we could get a room and then 327 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 3: even if we could get a room, the cost of 328 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 3: those rooms during the Davos week for scientists, for academics 329 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 3: impossible for us to be able to pay for that, 330 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 3: even if we could. So I turned my way a 331 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 3: couple of times onto a hotel list, like basically, you 332 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 3: can have a closet if it's still available, but eventually 333 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 3: I would get kicked off on that. And you can 334 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 3: stay outside Davos, but then you've got to come in, 335 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 3: and then you've got no place to present. So around 336 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, I said, you know what, let's just bring 337 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 3: an Arctic science tent, a weather have intent that scientists 338 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 3: use in the field, and let's bring it and let's 339 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 3: find a backyard we can put it in, and we're 340 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 3: going to camp in it, and we're going to use 341 00:17:58,359 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 3: that as our event space. 342 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 2: And I did. I did. That's where the name Optic 343 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 2: base Camp comes from. Yeah, so what should people picture 344 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 2: when they're imagining the Arctic base camp tent? Inda of us. 345 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 4: Oh, it's a pretty big tent. 346 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 3: I mean, it's not a tent to get married in, 347 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 3: so to speak, but it's a pretty big tent. 348 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 4: So it's about two and a half. 349 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 3: Three meters wide and about five meters long, and it's 350 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 3: a big sort of domed tent and it's white with 351 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 3: orange which is the classic weather Haven colors, and are 352 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 3: big logo artic base camp. It's insulated, of course, it's 353 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 3: got some insulation around it, and then we have smaller 354 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 3: sleeping tents, which are a little yellow tents, two person 355 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 3: tents that are set up around it. 356 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 2: Base camps are typically camps that are set up at 357 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 2: the base of a mountain, so like the ever Space 358 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 2: camp would be a very famous one where exactly even 359 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 2: climbing up to the base camp is quite the challenge, 360 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 2: but of course that's just the base camp, and then 361 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 2: you actually go to the peak. And so what you 362 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 2: were trying to say with that is, now we've created 363 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:02,239 Speaker 2: this place actually physic place where people can come and 364 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 2: if they so understand the importance of what's happening in 365 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 2: the Arctic, well they can go to the next eleven 366 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 2: and do something. 367 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 4: About it exactly. 368 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 3: And it was this idea that we could control this 369 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 3: space and it was a space for science. And we 370 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 3: were not fancy, and we were cold, and we were 371 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 3: very thankful for any dinner anybody ever gave us. 372 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 4: During any of the Davos weeks. 373 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 3: To be honest with you, you know that first year 374 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 3: it was minus twenty four celsius. 375 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 4: It was freezing. It was freezing, and we. 376 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 3: Ended up doing the actual event indoor at the research institute. 377 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 3: Beside us that professor Conrad Stephan, who was a Swiss gleciologist. 378 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 3: He'd just come back to Switzerland and he was in 379 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 3: charge of a larger institute that had this Davos base 380 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 3: for snow and avalanche research and he was completely supportive, 381 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 3: so we co hosted it with him and his team. 382 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 3: Let us use indoor facilities that first year to do 383 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 3: the actual presentations, and we were super lucky. We had 384 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 3: Vice President Gore al Gore joined us as a keynote, 385 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 3: Christiana Figueras, we had Peter Barker, CEO of World Business 386 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 3: CA Council, leaders from WWF, Noukoichi was there from the GEF, 387 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 3: and it was a huge event. We had well over 388 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty people and that was a rocky 389 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 3: way of kicking off Davos. 390 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 2: You've continued to do it since and many of the 391 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: names you just recounted, like Alcore, are people who already 392 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 2: understand the problem. So what was it that you had 393 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 2: to do to bring in the other crowd, the crowd 394 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 2: you really wanted to get to exactly. 395 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 3: Well, the first thing is we had to change locations 396 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 3: because it was not actually on the animal corridor of 397 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 3: the Davos participant. 398 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 4: They were not walking past that. 399 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 3: They were maybe getting in their helicopter, but that was 400 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,919 Speaker 3: not enough to see us. We got a location in 401 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 3: the second year which we've stayed at every year since, 402 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 3: at the Schatzel Hotel, which is a glorious hotel a 403 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 3: short vernicular ride up the mountain and it's one of 404 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 3: the classic hotels in Davos, and it's also where they 405 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 3: had the closing lunch every year. Lots of folks stay 406 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 3: at the Shatsu. It has got major events happening all 407 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 3: the time. You know, Bill Gates and Malala have done in, 408 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 3: John Kerry have Doney Vet's and you know, a glorious view. 409 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 4: So it's kind of on the World Leader Tour. 410 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 2: That's handy, Yeah, that's handy. 411 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 3: You know one here in twenty eighteen, I believe, where 412 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 3: we were packing up the tant and we saw there 413 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 3: was a ton of security. So really, you know, guys 414 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 3: with guns everywhere and snipers and so on, so we 415 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 3: knew somebody fancy was going to be around. And then 416 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 3: we saw mister Netanya, who walking by with his wife 417 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 3: in entourage. 418 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 2: Head a state of Israel at the time. 419 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 3: Yes, he was absolutely and he walked up to me 420 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: and he said, what the heck are you doing here 421 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 3: with this big artic tent. And I said, well, we 422 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 3: are Arctic scientists and we're bringing a message of climate 423 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 3: risk to global leaders. And he said you're sleeping here 424 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 3: and I said, yeah, we are. We slept here for three. 425 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 4: Nights and I was wearing the sweater i'd slept in. 426 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it was not the most glamorous 427 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 3: meeting I would have to say. 428 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 4: And then he said I want to see the tent. 429 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 3: So they all came in and we talked about climate 430 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 3: change and global risk and let him see some ice 431 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 3: core samples, you know, that kind of thing. 432 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 4: I'm not suggesting he was. 433 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 3: On our target list for who we wanted to brief, 434 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 3: but Davos gives you the opportunity where you can make 435 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 3: those unusual moments and just speak science to power. 436 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 2: After the break, I asked Gale whether what happens at 437 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 2: Davos really makes a difference and what needs to happen 438 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 2: to save the optic. If you like learning about big 439 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: subjects like is Davos effective at handling climate change? There 440 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 2: is another Bloomberg podcast I think you will like. I 441 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 2: want to recommend The Big Take. Every day they bring 442 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 2: you one big important story. Start out with Crypto Explained 443 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 2: in plain English. It's a thirty minute interview with Bloomberg 444 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 2: Opinions Matt Levine that brings clarity to crypto. It's based 445 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 2: on a forty thousand word story that's made up the 446 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 2: whole issue of Bloomberg BusinessWeek. Re Check it out The 447 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 2: Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts, Davos has been 448 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 2: the place where climate change is being talked about more recently. 449 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 2: Part of it is because of initiative like yours, bringing 450 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 2: the Arctic based camp to Fruition and bringing more leaders 451 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 2: to really understand this problem. But we also know that 452 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 2: emissions haven't started falling. There was the one year in 453 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 2: the pandemic that we saw a drop, and that was 454 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 2: because of economic activity being halted. We saw emissions rise 455 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 2: over the record high that was set in twenty nineteen 456 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 2: last year, So now we have a new record high. 457 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 2: That is why many people look at dubos and go, yes, 458 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 2: they're talking about climate change, but if they are not 459 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 2: doing something about it, isn't that greenwashing? How do you 460 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:54,199 Speaker 2: respond to that? 461 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think, you know, I think the Forum 462 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 3: has If I look at the international stage, it's really 463 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 3: significantly changed over the years. So a decade ago, there 464 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 3: was probably inside the World Economic Forum ten to fifteen 465 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 3: people working on environmental issues. Now a decade later, there's 466 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 3: probably over well over one hundred or one hundred and 467 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 3: twenty people working on environmental issues, climate change, biodiversity, plastics, 468 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 3: all kinds of stuff. So they have massively scaled up 469 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 3: their teams and they've done I think tremendous work in 470 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 3: all of those areas and work in the sense of 471 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 3: mobilizing private sector action. 472 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 4: They've got a CEO Climate Leaders Group, which. 473 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 3: Is impressive, is bold, is ambitious, you know co leader 474 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 3: is Yesper Broaden's CEO of IKIA. So you've got these 475 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 3: really you know, interesting and I think relatively young CEOs 476 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 3: that are active in this space. 477 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 4: But you've hit the. 478 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 3: Nail on the head here. If emissions do not fall, 479 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 3: it doesn't matter, none of it. 480 00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 4: Matters. 481 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 3: None of the science matters, of the media stories matter, 482 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 3: none of the corporate CEO good statements matter. 483 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 4: I don't think it's only greenwash, just. 484 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 3: Like I don't think the work that I'm doing is 485 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 3: necessarily self aggrandizing. I think what it is is that 486 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 3: we've got intractable problems and when governments go back into 487 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 3: their zone of say post pandemic recovery, they focus on 488 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 3: short term gains. So you look in Europe the pushback 489 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 3: to coal because of the war in Ukraine with Russia. 490 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 3: You look at the UK flip flopping on what they're 491 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 3: trying to do depending on who is the current Prime 492 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 3: minister or not. But the real flip flip flop back 493 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 3: and forth on how far and how fast, and should 494 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 3: they bring that Cambo oil field online or not, or 495 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 3: if we had two hundred years. Actually I would feel 496 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 3: pretty optimistic because there's been a sea change in this 497 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 3: decade since we've been trying to get to Dabos, an 498 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 3: absolute sea change. But the problem is is that we've 499 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 3: delayed action so long that physics is really pushing us. 500 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,959 Speaker 3: And I think extreme weather, which is the number one 501 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 3: global risk around the world, is the wake up call. 502 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 2: What specifically needs to happen at the World Economic Forum next. 503 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 3: Well, from our perspective, because the Arctic is so important, 504 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 3: you know, in terms of the future of humanity, what 505 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 3: really needs to happen is it needs to become a 506 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 3: central part of the Forum programming. 507 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 4: We have to go from off. 508 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 3: Broadway into the main tent, so to speak, and that 509 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 3: means we have to become one of the projects. Not 510 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 3: Arctic Base Camp, we're separate, but the Arctic or broadly 511 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 3: the polar regions need to become part of the World 512 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 3: Economic Forum. So they have stuff on water and oceans, 513 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 3: they have stuff on trees, where's the cryosphere, which is 514 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 3: the frozen parts of the planet. We know that they're 515 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 3: so important, So we really absolutely need the Forum to 516 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 3: pick this up as a project. And in order to 517 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 3: do that, they need members. They need concrete two three 518 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 3: companies or big foundations, philanthropic donors that say this is 519 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 3: important enough. And it is because we cannot do any 520 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 3: of the other things if we don't save the Arctic 521 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 3: and the Antarctic. 522 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 2: You use the word project. Now, lots of things can 523 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 2: be projects, but what does it really mean to be 524 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 2: a project of the World Economic Forum? 525 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 4: Oh, oh, that's a good question. 526 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 3: So the Forum has a Center for Nature and Climate 527 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 3: that they set up, and underneath that they have probably 528 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 3: about I don't know, fifty or one hundred projects. Those 529 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 3: are the actual work projects that members work on throughout 530 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 3: the year the World Economic Forum, of course, the annual 531 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 3: meeting is at Davos, but that doesn't mean that's all 532 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 3: that the Forum does. In fact, they have these workstreams 533 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 3: that continue throughout the year. And that's why you want 534 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 3: to get on a project. You don't want to just 535 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 3: pop up as here's the Arctic again in January of 536 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 3: every year. You actually want people working on the Arctic 537 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 3: or the Polar regions more broadly throughout the throughout the year. 538 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 2: So you want to be a protect And because of 539 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 2: the presence of the Arctic based camp at Davos, you've 540 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 2: been asked by CEOs and companies to come and give briefings. 541 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,239 Speaker 2: What does that involve and like what does it lead to? 542 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 3: Its interesting we found because we're sort of seeing obviously 543 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 3: as an unusual experience at Davos and one where the 544 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 3: teams will bring up a CEO for we had we 545 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 3: had one in May, large multinational company and incoming CEO 546 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 3: his first time at Davos, and he wanted to come 547 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 3: up and see different things, and he came into the 548 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 3: Arctic based camp tent and we did a bespoke science briefing, 549 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 3: which man it was just for him and his team, 550 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 3: and we went through not just the latest in Arctic change, 551 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 3: we then brought it into the global risk stuff. And 552 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 3: for this company, they were incredibly focused on water risk 553 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 3: and change over time and really did not know at 554 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 3: the c suite level how much the art it would 555 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 3: affect those water patterns throughout the world. 556 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 4: So when we have a chance to do that, we 557 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 4: do it. The same thing with food. 558 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 3: The Arctic because of its role in the water and 559 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 3: precipitation patterns around the world, it actually threatens the six 560 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 3: bread baskets of the world. You know, Arctic risk is 561 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 3: coming to our food system. The world is focused on, 562 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 3: of course the bread basket in Russia and Ukraine, and 563 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 3: rightly should be, but the other overlying threat on that 564 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 3: one and all the others is actually Arctic change. Yeah. 565 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 2: As a climate journalist, there's a shorthand that I've learned, 566 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 2: which is climate change is caused by greenhouse gases in 567 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 2: the atmosphere, but it really manifests through water on Earth. 568 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 2: And of course when I think about water, I'm thinking 569 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,479 Speaker 2: rivers and lakes and oceans and sea level rise. But 570 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 2: really it's not just water in liquid foam, but water 571 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 2: in the frozen from in the poles, both in the 572 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 2: Arctic and the Antarctic. 573 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 3: I love that metaphor. You know, I don't know if 574 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 3: you've ever talked to Lewis Pugh. 575 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 2: Yes, it's interesting you bring up Lewis Pew because talked 576 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 2: to him just a few episodes ago. And I hope 577 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 2: list this can go back into the archive and listen 578 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 2: to the episode on why protecting the oceans is so important. 579 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 3: You know, he says this great line, ice is life. 580 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 3: It's incredibly important from the water system. And then also 581 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 3: you know sea level rise. We are seeing such instability 582 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 3: in Greenland, which is the largest contributor right now to 583 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 3: sea level rise, which threatens coastal communities everywhere. So I 584 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 3: think Arctic Base Camp is a way of bringing the 585 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 3: Arctic to Davos. But the real hero of the story 586 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 3: is the Arctic itself. When you see the scale of 587 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 3: change that's happening, whether it's in Greenland or you go 588 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 3: to northern Canada or Alaska, or you're in Svalbart and onwards, 589 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 3: and you see that scale of change, you feel a 590 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 3: moral imperative to try and deal with that terrifying outcome. 591 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 3: And that comes back to your point, okshot, what will 592 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 3: happen at Davos when there's no snow and all the 593 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 3: people that are used to seeing that snow and they've 594 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 3: got they bring their big boots anyway, and they don't 595 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 3: need them. 596 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 2: Well, but Davos as the place of the powerful and 597 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 2: the elite, meeting at the start of the year to 598 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 2: set the agenda for the rest of the year. Typically 599 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:18,719 Speaker 2: in the way that it manifests is the tip of 600 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 2: what capitalism does. How do you think morality is going 601 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 2: to help shape that outcome? 602 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 3: Well, you know, call me naive, but I actually think 603 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 3: this is because I've seen it happen so many times. Ultimately, 604 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 3: leaders are people, and when we touch their humanity and 605 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 3: we combine that with self interest at times, but when 606 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 3: we touch their humanity and they see the existential threats 607 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 3: facing them, and we saw it with the pandemic for sure, 608 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 3: we saw it to some degree with the war in Ukraine. 609 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,959 Speaker 3: People will rise or can rise to the occasion, not 610 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 3: always will, and I think that will happen with the 611 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 3: climate crisis. My worry is that it might not happen 612 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 3: until it's too late to really avoid some major losses. 613 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 3: So we're pretty close to the one point five c 614 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 3: safe space, and you'll get scientists that will say we 615 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 3: don't have a hope in hell of maintaining that. I 616 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 3: stand on the side of optimism that as close to 617 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 3: one point five as we can get is better than 618 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 3: saying that that target's away, because it's not a target. 619 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 3: It's really about a physical limit. So we have to 620 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 3: keep going until it's too late, and even then we 621 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 3: have to try to mitigate as much as we can. 622 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 3: The pandemic did show us that when people were faced 623 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 3: with it, not all there is gaming. There was all 624 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 3: kinds of political expedient decision making at times around the world. 625 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 3: But people will make decisions that are bigger than themselves, 626 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 3: and I'm hoping that we can start doing that too, 627 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 3: because time is running out. 628 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 2: I hope you're right. That was a fascinating conversation. Thank you, Kayle, 629 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 2: Thank you. Last year was the first time I went 630 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 2: to Davos. It was in May instead of the usual 631 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 2: cold January, and the discussion no surprises, focused on the 632 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 2: war in Ukraine, the energy crisis that was to come, 633 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 2: and how the global economy will deal with high inflation. 634 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 2: Despite that, the climate remained a priority. Seven months on, 635 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 2: things haven't changed all that much. The war continues to 636 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 2: drag on, inflation is still too high, and energy security 637 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 2: remains top of mind. Will climate still be a priority 638 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 2: at Davos find out at Bloomberg dot com, slash Grain. 639 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening to Zero. If you liked 640 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 2: this episode, please take a moment to rate, review and 641 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 2: subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Send it to a friend, 642 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 2: or send it to someone who travels too often in 643 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 2: a private chat in touch at Zero pod at Bloomberg 644 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 2: dot Net. Zero's producer is Oscar Boyd and senior producer 645 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 2: is Christine Risco. Our theme music is composed by Wondering 646 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,320 Speaker 2: Special thanks to Eric Rosten and Hugo Miller. I'm Akshatrati 647 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 2: back next week.