WEBVTT - Prosecution Filings Spell Trouble for Trump

0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:07.560
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.440
<v Speaker 1>day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.399
<v Speaker 1>important legal news of the day. You can find more

0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.040
<v Speaker 1>episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:22.800
<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. President Trump continued

0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:25.520
<v Speaker 1>to try to distance himself from Michael Coheny in tweets

0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.600
<v Speaker 1>this morning. That follows a weekend in which Democrats like

0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Congressman Adam Schiff said that Trump could face impeachment and

0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.720
<v Speaker 1>even jail time over his connection to the hush money payments.

0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.760
<v Speaker 1>Coin pleaded to I takeaway is there's a very real

0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.199
<v Speaker 1>prospect that on the day Donald Trump leaves office, the

0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.879
<v Speaker 1>Justice Department may indict him. That he may be the

0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.319
<v Speaker 1>first president in quite some time to face the real

0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:50.800
<v Speaker 1>prospect of jail time. Join me. Is Brad Moss a

0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:54.080
<v Speaker 1>partner at Mark Zaide. Brad, do you agree with shift?

0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:57.200
<v Speaker 1>Can the president face indictment when he leaves office? Is

0:00:57.240 --> 0:00:59.920
<v Speaker 1>he likely to? Yes? I absolutely agree with the Congress

0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:04.120
<v Speaker 1>And actually, a former prominent federal prosecutor, Andrew McCarthy, who

0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.320
<v Speaker 1>has been a critic of the Russia probe, has nonetheless

0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.600
<v Speaker 1>issued an op ed that's in Fox News, agreeing more

0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:14.199
<v Speaker 1>or lesser shift that the president faces significant legal peril

0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.560
<v Speaker 1>separate from anything that Special Counsel Mueller is doing with

0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:20.759
<v Speaker 1>the Russian investigation. He faces possibly his greatest legal peril

0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:24.200
<v Speaker 1>from this situation with his former attorney Michael Cohen and

0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:28.080
<v Speaker 1>the campaign finance violations and fraud. And if he wasn't

0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.440
<v Speaker 1>the president right now, it's a pretty decent bet that

0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:33.200
<v Speaker 1>at least he would have been issued what's called the

0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.800
<v Speaker 1>target letter by the Justice Department letting him know that

0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:39.440
<v Speaker 1>he's possibly going to be indicted, if not actually already

0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.039
<v Speaker 1>being indicted by this point, he would have almost certainly

0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.399
<v Speaker 1>faced some type of scrutiny by now because of the

0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.920
<v Speaker 1>standing guidance that the Justice Department operates under that says

0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.480
<v Speaker 1>a sitting president should not be indicted and cannot be indicted.

0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:55.080
<v Speaker 1>That's kind of spared him at the moment, but it

0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.880
<v Speaker 1>certainly forces him to face some serious political problems, especially

0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.400
<v Speaker 1>as things developed further, and it could result in the

0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:05.400
<v Speaker 1>Just Department, the federal prosecutors in New York referring a

0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:07.760
<v Speaker 1>report to the efting Attorney General. Thing. We think this

0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:11.080
<v Speaker 1>needs to be referred to Congress for consideration under the

0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.360
<v Speaker 1>impeachment process, which is the design of the Founding Fathers

0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:17.520
<v Speaker 1>in terms of removing a president from office. President Richard

0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:20.639
<v Speaker 1>Nixon was named by the Watergate Grand Jury as an

0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:25.440
<v Speaker 1>unindicted co conspirator. Can that happen to President Trump? Sure?

0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean, and I think actually that's more or less

0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.560
<v Speaker 1>a rather reasonable interpretation of what came out of that

0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.160
<v Speaker 1>sentencing memoranda from the federal prosecutors in the Cohen case.

0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:36.080
<v Speaker 1>I think it's fair to say that the President is,

0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.280
<v Speaker 1>in fact, at this point an unindicted co conspirator. The

0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:42.800
<v Speaker 1>memoranda very clearly lays out that Mr Cohen acted at

0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:46.640
<v Speaker 1>the direction and coordination with this client, which was Donald J. Trump.

0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.919
<v Speaker 1>We know that this was done in their Their investigation

0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:53.360
<v Speaker 1>has involved limited use of nity agreements with people at

0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:57.680
<v Speaker 1>the Trump organization who cut the checks to reimburse Mr Cohen,

0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.359
<v Speaker 1>as well as an individuals at and that Acquirer who

0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.240
<v Speaker 1>are part of a separate but overlapping criminal conspiracy to

0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:08.440
<v Speaker 1>do a similar hush payment agreement with a playboy playmate.

0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.079
<v Speaker 1>This is really serious for the president, and this, more

0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:15.480
<v Speaker 1>than anything, could damage him politically. This morning, President Trump

0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:19.560
<v Speaker 1>tweeted and compared the payments by Cohen to President Obama's

0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:24.520
<v Speaker 1>campaign paying a fine for campaign reporting violations. Is there

0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.720
<v Speaker 1>a danger that this will be dismissed as just a

0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:31.280
<v Speaker 1>campaign violation? Well, sure, you certainly have seen some of

0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:34.680
<v Speaker 1>that political spin, and people who ultimately rely on the

0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.600
<v Speaker 1>president for political support are going to go along those lines.

0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.200
<v Speaker 1>There's going to be an element of tribalism here. Certain

0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.680
<v Speaker 1>people in the president's camp will never desert him on

0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:45.880
<v Speaker 1>that front. They'll say in the end, this is all

0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.720
<v Speaker 1>just you know, overhyping a campaign finance violation. It's comparing

0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.560
<v Speaker 1>apples to a luck not They're nothing similar and not

0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:54.880
<v Speaker 1>even close to the same type of thing. What happened

0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.520
<v Speaker 1>with the Obama people, and it's happened with other campaigns,

0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:00.240
<v Speaker 1>was a failure to properly report what they're called last

0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.960
<v Speaker 1>minute forty eight hour notice donations, donations that were otherwise legal.

0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.400
<v Speaker 1>Would happen with the Cohen situation, has laid out in

0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:10.480
<v Speaker 1>the sentencing memoranda, that was a criminal conspiracy to defraud

0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:15.640
<v Speaker 1>the FEC, defraud the public, and to conceal contributions that

0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:20.240
<v Speaker 1>themselves were far in excess of the acceptable limits. So, Brett,

0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:26.120
<v Speaker 1>what about the statute of limitations if Trump wins another election. Yeah,

0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:28.160
<v Speaker 1>so if you were to win, he was just if

0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.320
<v Speaker 1>he were to serve out a second full you know,

0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:33.240
<v Speaker 1>for your term, the special limitations would have run. So

0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.880
<v Speaker 1>there's two options here. One is that the Justice Department

0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:38.520
<v Speaker 1>could secure what is, you know, commonly known as a

0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.400
<v Speaker 1>field indictment, so that the Statute of Limitations would be,

0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:43.320
<v Speaker 1>as the term is called told and so it wouldn't

0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:46.240
<v Speaker 1>have lapsed by the time he left office. But there's obviously,

0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.520
<v Speaker 1>given the publicity surrounding this case, it's gonna be hard

0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:51.840
<v Speaker 1>to keep that all under wraps at this point. So

0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:54.920
<v Speaker 1>I think if the Just Department truly feels, after they've

0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.160
<v Speaker 1>gotten through all the information they've already been securing from

0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.440
<v Speaker 1>Mr Cohen and the individuals Trump Organization, the National Inquire,

0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:02.880
<v Speaker 1>if they truly feel that there is a legal case

0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:05.560
<v Speaker 1>they could otherwise bring against the president, I think they

0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:07.560
<v Speaker 1>will draft a report. I think they'll provide it to

0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.919
<v Speaker 1>the Acting Attorney General with a recommendation that he forwarded

0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.720
<v Speaker 1>to Congress for considerations, saying this is outside of our

0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.359
<v Speaker 1>control right now to handle. We cannot simply indicte a

0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.440
<v Speaker 1>sitting president under our guidance, it is a political question

0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:25.040
<v Speaker 1>for Congress to debate. In another sentencing memo on Friday,

0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:28.640
<v Speaker 1>which was Sentencing Memo Day, the Mueller team documented the

0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:32.279
<v Speaker 1>alleged lies that Paul Manafort told after he agreed to

0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:36.920
<v Speaker 1>cooperate with them. What did you learn from that filing? Well,

0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.240
<v Speaker 1>more than anything else, it is that despite all the

0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.960
<v Speaker 1>claims of Manafort that they had cut off contact with

0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.240
<v Speaker 1>the White House, we found out that months after he

0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.800
<v Speaker 1>was invited, he was still coordinating and talking with the

0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.800
<v Speaker 1>White House. And this is someone who has been separately

0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.680
<v Speaker 1>indicted not only for all his money fraud and tax

0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.320
<v Speaker 1>fraud issues, but for trying to engage in witness tampering.

0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.120
<v Speaker 1>And so you have to wonder or those discussions between

0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Paul Manaford's team and White House officials was that additional

0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:10.120
<v Speaker 1>conspiracy to conceal relevant information that was at a additional

0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.200
<v Speaker 1>conspiracy to obstruct justice. The fact that these people keep

0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.880
<v Speaker 1>doing this really what makes you wonder where the lawyers

0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:22.599
<v Speaker 1>are to stomp out this amateurism, saying you can't do this.

0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.080
<v Speaker 1>There are certain lines you don't cross. And once he

0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.880
<v Speaker 1>was invited, no one in the White House. No one

0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.200
<v Speaker 1>in the Trump administration should have taken his call or

0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.919
<v Speaker 1>exchanged any emails with him or anyone on his team.

0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:40.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm still struggling to understand how Manifoort, who knows that

0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.719
<v Speaker 1>has learned from experience, that Muller knows the answers and

0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.400
<v Speaker 1>is following everything that goes on. Why would he think

0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.880
<v Speaker 1>that he could get away with something like this a

0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.359
<v Speaker 1>lifetime of arrogance and feeling for so many years, for

0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.000
<v Speaker 1>so many decades, that he was above bala. I mean, remember,

0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.320
<v Speaker 1>think of how many years ago your body laddering at

0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.440
<v Speaker 1>tax fraw case arguably could have been brought against Paul

0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:08.800
<v Speaker 1>Manaford is skated by on the thin edge of legality

0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.800
<v Speaker 1>for so many years. These guys they get sloppy, they

0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.520
<v Speaker 1>get arrogant, they think they can pull off anything, and

0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:18.080
<v Speaker 1>you're seeing that with Paul Manaforts, the potential witness tempering,

0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:21.440
<v Speaker 1>obstruction of justice. They just keep making the same mistakes.

0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:23.280
<v Speaker 1>In the end, you know, you think about that, You

0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.760
<v Speaker 1>think about all the President's men. The great line, these

0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.800
<v Speaker 1>weren't really smart guys, and things got out of control.

0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.920
<v Speaker 1>It's the exact same thing here, all right, we all

0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.000
<v Speaker 1>should watch All the President's Men again. Thanks so much, Brad.

0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:41.679
<v Speaker 1>That's Brad Moss. He's a partner at mark X. Thanks

0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:45.040
<v Speaker 1>for listening to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can subscribe

0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.280
<v Speaker 1>and listen to the show on Apple podcast, SoundCloud, and

0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:52.840
<v Speaker 1>on bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brasso. This

0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:53.840
<v Speaker 1>is Bloomberg