WEBVTT - Part Three: Crass: How Some Hippies Reinvented Punk and Changed the World 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:06.600 Cool Zone Media. Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:10.680 Did Cool Stuff, your weekly podcast for things that I 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.560 think are cool? And who am I to decide what's cool? 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:16.320 I am a person, and every person gets to decide 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:17.480 what they think is cool. And these are the things 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:20.119 that I think is cool. But my name as a 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.079 person who is the arbiter of cool like everyone else 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:28.280 is Margaret Kiljoy. And my guest who's also officially the 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:30.480 arbiter of cool is Julie Holland. 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:34.120 So awesome to be here, Thanks for having me. 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.920 Yeah, we were talking right before we hit record about 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:40.800 how this isn't a new history podcast, this is an 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:44.560 old history podcast, because we were talking about being incapable 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:50.320 of remembering the word for news and calling it new history. 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:51.640 That's unrelated to anything. 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:56.760 It's comforting. It's like, uh, we're all gonna die kind 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.520 of comforting phrase. 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:05.000 Yeah, we're all literally writing history right now, including writing 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:07.720 the fact that we don't have a producer again today. 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.120 But we do have a producer, she's just not on 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.320 Mike and her name is Sophie, and our audio engineer 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:15.440 is Rory. Everyone has to say hi to Rory. Hi, 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.640 Rory Hi, riy And our theme music was written for 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.680 us by unwoman who's going to be in this week's episode. 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:26.000 In an aside, Hell yeah, but no one's going to 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.760 know what it's about, unless do you know me, in 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:33.720 which case do you already know the thing? But this 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:38.240 is part three of a four parter about the band Crass, 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.679 about a narco punk in general, and the fact that 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.360 we took two episodes to not even get to the 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:49.240 band Crass is because of the fact that punk and 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:53.600 its broader impact has had a broad You can tell 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.200 I'm off script here. I am entirely making this up, 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:59.960 so I should probably just start, well, wait, what if 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.040 people don't know who Jolie Holland is and they somehow 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.920 skipped to just now and didn't know, would they know 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.920 that you're a wait? We decided to sing a songwriter 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:08.959 sort of an annoying word. 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.480 Well, I mean singer songwriter. Yeah, I'm a musician. Yeah. 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:17.000 I like that. Sometimes people don't know that being a 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.920 singer is being a musician, which is really funny. 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.320 Yeah, that's weird because that's like, that's the part of 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.400 musicianists that I'm worse at is singing. 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:30.280 I believe everybody can sing. 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:35.760 I know I technically can make singing. I don't actually 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:37.480 hate my singing voice. I just have to I'm not 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:39.360 as trained at it as I would like to be. 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.320 But it wouldn't have affected me if I'd been an 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.480 avant garde or punk singer. That's not true. Actually, punk 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:47.840 singers are incredibly talented. 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:52.760 Absolutely, I know. It's so much power. Yeah, yeah, I 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.880 had never consciously listened to Krass until we started this. 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.400 So here we are starting episode three, and I just 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.440 listened to a whole bunch of Crass and I think 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:09.399 they're amazing musicians. I just really enjoyed. Yeah, it's it's 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:11.959 really technically powerful. 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:17.520 Yeah, and it's it changed, well, it changed a lot 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:19.920 musically and not just like I'm going to talk mostly 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.959 about its cultural and political impact because of my own 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.400 background and focuses. But like when you listen to a 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:28.360 bunch of crafts, you're like, oh, that's where that weird 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.680 part of punk that doesn't make any sense comes from. 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:34.720 You know, absolutely, Yeah, I really heard that. I heard 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:36.040 the formativeness. 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:41.920 Yeah. Well, where we last left our unlikely heroes, they 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.640 were doing a bunch of avant garde stuff and living 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.680 in a rented cottage outside of London called Dial House. 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.360 After their divorce because they got divorced even though they 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.120 never got married. Gee moved to New York City to 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:56.520 work as a commercial artist, doing work for the New 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:58.880 York Times and I think the New Yorker, and she 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:01.720 lived around the corner from seatgb's the Classic punk club, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.440 and just a bunch of stories about those days and 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:09.760 hanging out with CBGB's punks and stuff. Meanwhile, back in London, 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.200 folks in the house were working as cover designers, and 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:15.840 at least Penny, at least is the only person who's 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.200 like jobs I knew. I was trying to figure out 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.080 whether they're all just like living on the dole or whatever. 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:25.840 Penny was doing book design, Penny was doing like some 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.000 sort of coal delivery or carrying. I think people were 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.520 heating their houses a coal and I think Penny was 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.960 delivering it and house painting and just having a bunch 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:40.039 of weird jobs. This is also oddly placed his Long 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:42.120 Dark Night of the Soul. Normally that would come near 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.839 the climax of the story, but his relationship has fallen 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:48.240 apart and everything seems to be ending, you know, this 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.080 whole end of this era, and so he spends a 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.440 while just kind of Usually this goes really badly, but 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:55.479 it works this time. He spends a while just like 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:59.440 drinking and complaining about Christianity in the kitchen. Oh yeah, 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:01.520 and that's like, that's like his thing for a while, 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:03.320 as he just sits around the kitchen table at this 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:07.800 communal house and screams about how Jesus should have run 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.400 away from the people who were killing him. And he 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.280 wrote a pamphlet called Reality Asylum, or I think it's 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:19.280 called Christ's Reality Asylum. And in case anyone's wondering, I 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.159 don't know how to spell the word asylum. Still. I 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:25.760 took me like eight times writing the script. But he 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.960 wrote this thing, and he was mad that Jesus hadn't 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:30.719 run away from his captors. He was mad that his 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.520 friend Wally hadn't either. He was just bitter, like all 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.440 the hippie love stuff is kind of fallen apart. And 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.320 so he decides to put out this piece, and he 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.320 asks his housemate Dave King to make a piece of 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.600 art for it, design a logo for it for the cover, 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.119 and so Dave King sits down and he sketches something 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:52.120 that we now know today as the crafts symbol, which 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.320 is a sort of a circle slash made out of 0:05:55.360 --> 0:06:00.520 Ora Boris's against a cross. And this is one of 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:04.320 the better pieces of branding in history. Like Crass is 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:06.960 an anti corporate band, but the fact that they all 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:11.120 come from like graphic design backgrounds and they know about 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:15.680 commercial art shows this logo is part of what makes them. 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:20.040 I think it's somehow kind of esoteric and slightly disturbing. 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:23.039 Anything with radial symmetry is going to occasionally be mistaken 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:26.080 for a swastika, and the Crass logo is no different. 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.440 Have you seen the Crass logo of course. 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:34.040 Yeah. And I just spoke with my friend Sarah Berlin Game, 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:39.520 who just got out of the State House in Wyoming today, 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.719 just while I was walking my dog, and she said 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.720 that they a bit of new history here. They just 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:53.799 allowed open Carrie in the schools. Maybe for the students, 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:58.000 I don't know. It's really upsetting, Okay, in Wyoming. In Wyoming, 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:05.320 she's a she's like a lgbt Q plus organizer with 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:12.600 white Wyoming equality and so tough, so badass, and uh yeah, 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.480 it's just shocking. But she said her the first love 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.000 of her life had a Crass tattoo, and he was 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:25.080 always telling people that it was not a swastika. 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:30.480 Yeah that Yeah, that's gonna end up sometimes a problem 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.160 for them. And it's funny to me because I even 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.360 like often think things look like swastikas that aren't. I 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:38.160 have never looked at the cross logo and thought it's 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.240 a swastika, but I do know an awful lot of 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:42.120 people with the tattoo. 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:47.760 It's it's a lot like the the Bad Religion image 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.600 kind of is a iteration of the cross image in 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:51.840 a way. 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.800 Right, Yeah, isn't a circle circle slash through a cross 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:55.560 is bad religion? 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:57.160 Yeah, it's like almost the same. 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.440 Yeah, totally. Oh that's a that's a good point. Bad 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:06.720 Religions is much simpler. But you know, so they have 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:08.600 this logo and they don't know that it's going to 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:10.360 be the logo of Crass yet it's just the logo 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:14.720 for Christ's Reality Asylum, and they make pamphlets of it 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:18.600 and stuff and start distributing it. Well, I guess Penny does. 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.679 Punk is doing this thing, And in nineteen seventy seven 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.200 the whole house went to go see the clash. I 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.040 really like the idea that they had, Like House field 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.880 trips and they left and they were like, hey, this 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:32.600 is fucking cool. And then they saw the Slits and 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:34.640 they were like, oh, this is even more earnest, this 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:38.600 is even better. And also they were like the Clashes 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:43.000 was more technically competent than the Slits, let's say, and 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.160 so they were like, you know what, and they can 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.600 do it. Anyone can do it, we can do it. 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.480 It also helped that Joe Strummer from the Clash used 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:53.880 to challenge the audience to form their own bands at 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:55.880 the end of shows, which is fucking cool. That is 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:57.880 a cool thing to do, especially when you're like the 0:08:58.040 --> 0:08:59.720 rock star band is to be like, no, we're not 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.600 better you. We could just everyone can do it, you know. 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:07.000 Yeah. I think I think they somebody gave them that 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.920 advice before they started too. They're like, we really have 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:12.640 we want to start a band, but we feel like 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.800 we're not good enough, and I forget some big band 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:17.520 was like, no, you should just start. 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:21.880 Hell, yeah, that's cool. I really like the Clash. About 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.920 half of Crass is like, uh, Clash is bad and sellouts, 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:27.480 and the other half of Crass is like, Clash is cool. 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.400 Yeah. I saw I saw the track where it seemed 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:31.920 like they was trying to start beef with them. 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.240 Yeah. They they do a lot of beef tracks. They 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:41.080 are uh dis tracks, that's the word, not not beef tracks. 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.080 I'm good at knowing new history. 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:48.440 On new history. Yeah. They they seem very fighty. 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:50.599 Yeah, and it's interesting because like the whole time that 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.559 they're a band, they're incredibly fighty with their like lyrics 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.760 and they're the stuff they do. But then like their 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:58.679 house is open and they're all peaceful and you can 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:00.959 just like come hang out, and like it was kind 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.760 of interesting. So they get home, they've seen the clash, 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.880 they've seen the slits, and there's this young punk who 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:08.800 had been hanging around the house because they're in their 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.960 thirties and they're not punks, right, And this guy named 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.960 Steve Ignorant was coming around, which is a good punk name. 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.120 He would come around because his older brother, who was 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.320 a hippie, used to take him there. And then young 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.480 Steve he was originally a skinhead. This is before skinhead 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:28.000 had racist connotations, and then after that he was glam 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.520 but then he was punk and he liked this house. 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.640 He's like in high school or whatever they call high 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:34.760 school over there, maybe they called high school, I don't know. 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:37.640 And he starts hanging out there more and more. He's 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:39.959 like skipping school to hang out at dial House, even 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.720 though the weird hippies wouldn't let him eat meat and 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:44.640 there was like no TV to watch or whatever, you know. 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:47.880 And so one day he shows up at dial House 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.840 and he's like, well, I want to start a band, 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:52.959 and Penny's like, yeah, sure, fuck it, all right, I'll 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.839 be your drummer. Let's start a band. And it was 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.199 a two piece at first. Steve would shout and Penny 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.920 would smash on the RUMs. And Penny wanted to call 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:07.480 it les font Terrible, the fucking surrealist fucking it's a 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.679 uh in font Terrible means the terrible children, and it's 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.480 a reference to some weird old artsy shit, a novel 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:20.280 by John Jean Cocteau, Whereas Steve wanted to call it Stormtrooper, 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.840 which is also not a very good name. But it's 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:26.680 interesting because Stormtrooper is a better name in terms of, 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:28.480 like it sounds like a punk band, but it's also 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.839 a terrible name because it's a literally a Nazi thing, 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:31.320 you know. 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:33.720 Yeah, So then they ended. 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.440 Up picking the name crass, which comes from a David 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.560 Bowie song Ziggy Stardust, in which there's a line that 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:44.160 says the kids were just crass. And soon enough there's 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.200 a bunch of them in this band. And this isn't 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.200 a music history podcast, and I'm not going to give 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:50.600 you the names of And I feel kind of almost 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:51.599 like a jerk about this, but I'm not going to 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.200 give you the names of like everyone in the band, 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:55.160 and like when they joined them, when they left, and 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.080 what instruments they played and all that stuff, because that 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.839 is extensively covered. So that's not what I'm gonna do. 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.000 Everyone in this band was important, and they really were 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.600 a collective, but there were a bunch of them, and 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.880 I would have a hard time crafting a narrative around 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:13.480 all seven or eight of them. At first they were 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:15.839 all men, and soon enough there's three women in the 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:19.920 band as well. They played their first show and they 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.160 pissed off the neighbors so much that the neighbors pulled 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.440 the plug on their show. And I think that that 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.320 is a good way to start a band. The reason 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.720 that I think that is that I once was in 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:35.160 an acoustic crass cover band, which you're making obviously that 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.240 would be amazing face but and it was called best 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.560 before eighteen eighty six, so is somehow a reference to 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:45.640 Haymarket and crass. And it was with my friend on 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:49.120 woman who did the theme music for this podcast, as 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.000 well as another friend who doesn't like when they're named 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.760 on air, so will not be And we got booked 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.400 to play. This is really gonna I'm gonna really impress everyone. 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.440 We got booked to play a steampunk convention in San Antonio, Texas, 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.800 and we were so bad that not only were we 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:06.240 kicked out of the bar where we played, the entire 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.800 convention was kicked out of the bar, even though they'd 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:11.240 booked it for a private event. 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.920 That's incredible. And this is wait, this is an acoustic band. 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.680 Yeah it was one one was playing cello, I was 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.320 playing accordion, and my friend was playing acoustic guitar. 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.800 So wait, you were wait you were amplified right. 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:30.160 No, no shit, no, we were just shouting loud as hell. 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:35.800 Yeah, So that that is I'm deeply impressed. That's thank you, 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:41.200 that's that's that's another level. You got the convention kicked out. 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:45.000 I know, I know, I was really impressed by that. 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.200 Uh No, one else was impressed by that. Everyone else 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:49.120 is upset by that. 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:54.359 But you know, that's success, that's really success. 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.880 Yeah. That was the only time we ever played. We 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:00.640 did not continue. We got booked to play that convention. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:02.000 That was it. 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:04.719 Wait was the name of the band again. 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:11.840 Best before eighteen eighty six? Yeah, so soon enough Krass, 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.839 the actual Crass, not the brilliant derivative band Best before 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:19.680 eighteen eighty six. Soon enough, Krass developed their whole deal, 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.360 which was to wear all black like a uniform and 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.960 play in front of a bunch of political banners. Eventually 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.040 they start using projection from various like artsy films and 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:30.320 all kinds of imagery, and they use the big old 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:34.400 Crass logo banner and this is all really effective branding. 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.720 But for a long time, even though they were eventually 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.720 like the a narco punk band, a lot of people 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.960 saw them and were like, are these Nazis? And it 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:46.239 didn't help that they all wore red armbands. 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.760 Oh lord, yeah, because everybody knew what Nazis were, and 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.680 people did not know what anarcho punks were. 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.280 Well, because a narco punks weren't a thing yet, and 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.400 what's and what's fascinating about it is that they like 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.320 and they weren't like wearing like patches and stuff, right, 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:06.120 they were like wearing solid all black. And to this day, 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.360 like there's kind of a slight division in punk. It's 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:11.440 not named, but there's like a slight division where the 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:15.480 more Anarco you are, the more clean black, and the 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.240 more punk you are, the more color and like patched 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.080 up black, you know, but like punks wear a lot 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:26.840 of black, but like the like slightly cleaner Anarco look like. 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.400 I think this is the idea that punks just wear 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:34.440 all black comes from crass And what's fascinating is I 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:36.400 think they were doing it kind of to look a 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:40.600 little bit like fascists because and this is a thing 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:44.600 that like, Okay, the playing around with fascist imagery is 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.040 a thing that is hard to look at in retrospect. 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.840 But a lot of early punks were using this for 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.680 three different reasons, as best as I can tell, a 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.240 lot of people like Susie Sue, who has a kind 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:02.160 of racist named or band. Anyway, Susi Sue used swastikas 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.480 and stuff, and I believe is basically shock value. I'm 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.840 not an expert on Suzi Sue and then some people 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:10.400 were using swastikas and stuff because they were actually right wing, 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:15.240 and Krass never used swastikas, but they used this kind 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.840 of imagery, I believe, in a similar way to what 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.400 they were doing with their visual art, whereas like Crass's 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:25.360 like art is like close up photos of children on 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.800 fire and the horrors of war and mutilation and all 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:33.040 of this like edge Lord imagery, right, they were doing 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:35.720 it to be like, look, these are the horrors of 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:37.840 war that they're trying to hide from you. We're going 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.080 to put it in your face that war is bad. 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:45.480 Yeah, this is the expression of empire that and we're 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:49.440 all living on the slightly cleaner side of it, but 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:50.760 this is the reality. 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.880 Yeah, Like we're going to show you the shit that 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.160 is being done in the rest of the empire here 0:16:56.200 --> 0:17:00.120 in the colonial center, you know. And so I think 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.440 that they are sort of playing around with like edgy 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.800 uniforms and like being like kind of fashy in some 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:10.919 of their fashion comes from that, like that desire, whereas 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:15.639 like these days, most of the time when people dress 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.840 up fascy, it's just bad, you know, Yeah, I. 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:20.760 Mean it's also it also seems like it could be 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:25.040 read as just an expression of militancy totally. 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.320 Yeah, And then it's like kind of fun and interesting 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.440 because they are like pacifists from the go, but they 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.840 are like loud and angry pacifists in a way that 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:39.920 like you don't see a lot of these days. You know, Yeah, 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:43.399 there's a oh I haven't read it, but there's a 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.080 book that someone I know wrote called a pacifismin What 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:47.879 it Used to be. Oh no, non violent ain't what 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:52.480 it used to be anyway. So Crass is starting to play, 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:57.199 and they didn't have advertisers cutting into the middle of 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.119 their shows. They just didn't. They were really that is 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:04.520 a thing that they were against. But that's fifty years 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:08.720 ago and things are different. Sometimes advertisers come right now 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:20.040 and we're back. So Crass is starting to play and 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.520 they're not like a tight professional band for a very 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:24.679 long time. They actually start getting more and more like 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.200 technically competent or whatever, but they've never prioritized like clean 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.560 production or technical mastery of their instruments. There's a lot 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:33.600 of like some of the people from Krass talking about 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:35.520 how they had sometimes had trouble at other shows because 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.560 afterwards all the other musicians would like want a jam 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.920 or something, and they're like, I know how to play 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:41.320 the three chords that are in my song. 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:43.000 Yeah, I know how to play the songs that I 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.720 wrote and not not anything else. Yeah, which I love that. 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:50.119 I really appreciate those kind of musicians. 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:52.919 I appreciate it because I am literally that kind of person. 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:56.879 I cannot I love playing piano. I play piano. It 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.320 was like my main happy place. I cannot play a 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.320 piano song and write. I barely know how to read music, 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.520 and I like write music, and I feel like a 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:07.240 jerk because then people are like, oh, let's Jim, and 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.280 I'm like, I no, No, I kind of can if 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.040 someone tells me what key we're in, I can do it. 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:17.440 But anyway, there's a part of why I like Crassis. Yeah, 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:21.200 they prioritize their overall aesthetic and they prioritize political messaging. 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.760 But they did write some fucking bangers right out of 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.520 the gate. Their main issues included feminism and the peace movement. 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:31.399 One of their first songs is one of their classics. 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:33.440 I think it's like the second song they wrote. It's 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:35.959 called do They Owe Us a Living? And the chorus 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.040 is do they owe us a living. Of course they do. 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:42.040 Of course they fucking do. And it's just this like angry, 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.600 like no society needs to take care of people. 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:49.960 Yeah. I just went and went by my friend Jessica 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.639 Kinney's house and she comes walking down her hill and 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:57.800 she's she's a old punk and I had told her 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:00.640 that we were doing this and uh huh, she comes 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.440 walking down our hill. She's screaming that song at me. 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:11.600 Hell yeah, the song is fucking good. And there's a 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.520 punk club in London at this time called the Roxy. 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:16.920 And I think this part's actually important. It grew out 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:22.000 of a gay club and Crass played there twice, the 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:23.960 second and last time they ever played there. Is it 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.119 still in their very early stages, they were too drunk 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:29.800 to play, possibly too high to play, but I've like 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.040 read one thing that's too high to play. But overall 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:33.879 I read that they kind of didn't do drugs, so 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.359 at the very least they were too drunk to play, 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:38.639 and they made such a shit show of it that 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.000 they got banned from the Roxy, which is why they 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:44.359 wrote a song called Band from the Roxy. 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.120 When I read the lyrics, it seemed to imply that, 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:52.720 like they were too cool, for the roxy, but they 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:56.040 just couldn't they couldn't make it happen on stage. It 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:56.560 sounds like. 0:20:57.040 --> 0:21:00.000 Yeah, basically like I've read a couple of different takes 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.520 of it, but it was like they went up and 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:05.679 they were too drunk, and so the club was like, 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:07.760 get the fuck off stage, and they were like no. 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:09.959 And then eventually the band was like, fine, you can 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:14.920 finish your set, but your fucking band. And then afterwards 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.040 they decided even though they were like, oh, we were 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:21.600 unjustly banned or whatever, and you know, they were like, hey, 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:23.680 maybe we shouldn't get so drunk before we play anymore. 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:25.440 Like you can have like a beer or two before 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:28.000 you play. That's the that's the new rules in Crass 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:30.760 is we don't want to be too drunk to play, 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:35.720 which is important. It's like a funny I see the 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:38.159 like as a musician, you're like, okay, like, especially when 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:40.359