WEBVTT - Your Gut Is Also A Brain 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.320 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.000 Clark and there's Charles w Chuck Brian over there, and 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:18.680 it's just the two of us who were flying solo. 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:23.000 Um and that's okay, we're gonna do this and this 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:25.919 is stuff you should know. Yeah, you know before we 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.680 get go in. We are the worst self promoters. And 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.080 we consistently forget to tell people that we have a 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.400 book in a board game for sale for Christmas. That's 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.160 a great, great point. And every once in a while 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.080 they'll say things like, you know, if you guys want 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:44.280 to mention this, did they say? I feel like every 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:48.440 now and then we get emails that say, hey, did 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:50.760 you forget that you have these things? I don't forget. 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.239 I just assumed like everybody doesn't want to hear about it, 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:57.160 you know. Oh I know. But we're just not good 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:01.120 at this. As we stumble through at another self promotion, 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:03.360 they have a book in the board game and they 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.199 both make great Christmas gifts. Please stop, this is making 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:10.720 me so uncomfortable. Oh, buy them, everybody. Yeah, they're actually 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:12.600 pretty good. We're proud of both of them. I mean 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.880 we like, like we wrote a book, and we also 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.720 um with our good buddy knows Parker, I should say, 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:21.040 and we also helped create a board game with our 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.600 good buddies over at Trivial Pursuit. So yeah, I'm very 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:26.640 proud of It's a it's a legacy kind of thing, 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:30.280 you know. That's right. So we might have a couple 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:33.160 of these reminders before Christmas because they do make great 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.600 gifts for this stuff. You should know, friend in your life. Absolutely, 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.920 So that was a great idea, Chuck, And it didn't 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.319 feel so bad after all. That's right. And now onto 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:50.200 our probably I think eighth episode. I think that culminates. 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:54.920 It's culminated in this after many many episodes dealing with 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.280 this stuff. Well, that's funny that you say that, because 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:02.040 I was gonna caveat this with this this will we 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.480 will surely do another episode on this down the road 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:08.000 within the next several years, I'm sure, because you're obsessed 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:11.320 with it. I'm obsessed with a number one. Absolutely, it's 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:13.840 one of the most interesting things because this kind of 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:17.600 stuff we're gonna talk about, the gut, brain, microbiome access 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:22.959 um and it reveals, Chuck, like how little we actually 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.360 know about our bodies and how they function, but it 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:31.400 also provides these tantalizing clues about how cool the stuff 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.919 we have left to understand is. You know what I mean, 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.360 one day we're gonna understand exactly how our bodies function 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.440 and it's going to be mind boggling. I'm just very 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.560 excited about it. So yes, I'm obsessed with it. But 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.200 the other reason why we'll surely do it again is 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.440 because the stuff that we're going to talk about, we've 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:55.480 got to disclaim this episode and that it's pioneering, like 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:59.919 like cutting edge research, not bleeding edge, cutting edge research, 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.560 so it's going to keep evolving. But that also means Charles, 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.600 that that that you and I can just be like gee, 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:08.639 whiz and wow at this point because this is all 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:12.520 like just very early study kind of stuff. That's right, 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.560 And if you want to really get ready for this one, 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:21.640 you could listen to episodes on digestion, vehicle transplants, the 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:27.520 microbio human human microbiome, project immune system, probiotics, and even 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.520 our old buddy Fight or Flight. Yeah, and then just 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:34.040 listen to the one on Pyromania for kicks. Did we 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:38.320 do one on Pyromania? Of course, man, we did. Funny, 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.720 I was looking through the list the other day for 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:43.800 for a very special thing we have coming up that 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:48.760 we can announce yet. It's more self promotion too, which 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:50.920 we're very excited about. But I was looking through all 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:54.320 of our episodes and boy, it's getting more and more around, like, 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:58.560 huh what really? Yeah, imagine somebody trying to wade into 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:02.520 this stuff and just encountering it now, you know. Yeah. 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:04.280 It was at one point though, I was like, was 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.440 I abducted For a few years, I don't remember a 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:09.800 lot of these. Yeah, I have the same same thing 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.880 going on. But also, Chuck, now that you mentioned the list, 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.120 I want to give a huge hat tip again to 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:20.280 our Minister of Stats, Jill Hurley just doggedly and tirelessly 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.560 chronicles every single episode we've ever done. There's a Google 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.839 sheet out there that's open access that has every single 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.560 episode in order, including the selects or when they ran 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.520 as a select. Just it's just an amazing thing that 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.680 she's doing for free, for the love of it. I'm 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.640 guessing she still loves it. I hope Uh, well, Hurls 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:44.520 if nothing else is uh stubborn, she won't quit even 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:49.520 if so, let's talk about the gut brain microbiome access chuck, 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:51.200 because there's a couple of ways to look at it. 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.119 And the first way is the way that you would 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:58.200 expect that you do things like digest food. Um. Your 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:02.559 gut lining is produced mu gus um. You poop things 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.320 out after you eat them, you even swallow, and your 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.360 brain has a lot of other stuff to do than 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:12.520 to just micro manage that. So you have an entirely 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:18.840 different secondary central nervous system that's dedicated exclusively to um eating, 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:24.880 digesting and harvesting nutrients from your food. And that's called 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.479 the enteric nervous system. That's right, uh, And this is 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:32.400 definitely when we hit on in the digestion episode, but 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:35.160 they handle it all in the enteric nervous system. The 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.880 e n S is really um similar in a lot 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.680 of ways to our own central nervous system, and that 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:46.400 it's made up of uh nerves and neurons and neurotransmitters, 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.839 and it kind of does its own thing for the 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.000 most part as far as controlling that stuff without the 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:56.279 central nervous system lording over it. Saying you forgot this part. 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:58.520 You might want to move this through the intestine a 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.120 little quicker it and it does its own thing. But 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.560 this gut brain sort of connection that we're talking about 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.200 is really a connection between the e n S and 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:13.200 the CNS because they have figured that these two systems 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.000 talked to each other, and they talked to each other 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:18.400 from the gut to the brain, which is the really 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.119 surprising part. We've kind of always known that the brain 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:23.640 talks to the gut, but now we're learning, Hey, it 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.920 looks like the gut is actually sending messages to the brain, 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.600 and a lot of the stuff we thought was a 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:34.359 certain way could be actually backwards. Like ib S. Yeah, 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:36.919 Like we've thought for a very long time that people 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:41.440 with IBS UM, which is basically your your lower parts 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:45.520 aren't working at full um, full steam. Either you're pooping 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.560 too much and you've got really thin, watery poops, or 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.560 you're pooping too little you're constipated. Either way, you have 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.440 irritable bow. It's one of the most appropriately named syndromes 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:59.359 there is, right, And of course everybody's walking around knowing 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:03.160 that anybody who has ib s is UM suffering from 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.080 like stress or anxiety, and so it's bringing on like 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.400 digestive issues. Well, this is what this this is why 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.440 this stuff is so mind blowing? Is this the field 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:16.160 of research that investigates the gut brain microbiome access is saying, Actually, 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.400 it's like Chuck just said, it might go both ways. 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.680 You might have stress and anxiety not because of your 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.679 your job or you know, like you're there's some something 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.080 stressing you out. The guy down the block keeps looking 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.200 at you, weird, That's not why you're stressed out or anxious. 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:35.880 It's because you have IBS. That's causing your your stress 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.640 and anxiety. We may have have had it backwards all 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:43.960 this time. Yeah, And to be specific, like you can 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.960 get anxiety obviously because you have IBS. But what they're 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.800 saying is is that it's a chicken in the egg thing. 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.520 Is the origin of this is actually in the gut 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.360 and not like, oh, I have ib S because I'm anxious, right, 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.120 And the reason why they're saying that this is even 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:02.200 possible is because is that cross talk goes both ways, 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.360 Like there's a We're starting to find more and more 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:08.440 evidence of just how the gut could possibly speak to 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.240 the brain and send its own signals, and one of 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.400 the main ones is the vegas nerve, which made a 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.640 starring appearance in our episode on what happens in the 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.320 brain during an orgasm. The vegas nerve is all about that, 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:22.880 but the vegas nerve also has a lot to do 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.640 with connecting the enteric nervous system with the central nervous 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.920 system as well. Yeah, I mean we've known for a 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.160 long time. Uh, And we talked about this sum in 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.199 our Fight or Flight episode that you know, Let's say 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.320 you're out in the woods and you're camping and you 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.160 have to go to the potty, and you go and 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.360 you you squat down in the middle of nowhere. You're 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.720 enjoying your time, you're about to do your business, and 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:50.760 a bear pops his head up your your body. Well, 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:52.320 the bear is like, I know what that means, but 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:54.880 I'm here to interrupt that. The bears and I poop 0:08:54.880 --> 0:09:00.360 in the woods too, that's right. Uh, that bear like 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:03.680 you will go on an immediate sphincter lock. And it's 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:07.960 not just because um, it's not just a physical reaction 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.640 you and you have like you choose to do like, oh, 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:12.560 I better stop what I'm doing because there's a bear. 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.800 Like your body goes into fight or flight and it 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:19.360 sends your brain sends a signal to your body saying, 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:23.000 whatever else you're doing, shut it down now, because the 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.000 most important thing going on right now is this barre 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.400 in front of you. Yeah, like the FBI guy and 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:31.000 die Hard, shut it down now. But that's what man, 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:34.800 because the brain is saying, we've got, um, we've got 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:37.600 much better things to do with the energy that you're 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.160 using to digest that food right now. So of course 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.960 the brain can talk to the to the enteric nervous 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.160 system when it's fight or flight time. And at this point, Chuck, 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.120 I want to give another huge hat tip to our 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.880 own Dave Rouse, who helped us with this one bang 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.960 up job. He came up with an entirely new phrase 0:09:56.440 --> 0:10:01.160 for fight or flight battle or skitaddle. It's so good 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.959 that I wrote an email just calling that one out 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.080 to him, saying like this was a priceless term. He said, 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.400 that was all mine, so hopefully figure out a way 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.480 to copyright that one he made up for Bruce Springstein, 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.920 that's right. So um, so, yes, we know that the 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:18.600 brain can talk to the e N S, but the 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.320 e N S can talk to the brain via the 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.880 vegas nerve as well. And what they're figuring out is 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:27.680 that it communicates in a number of different ways with 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:32.839 the vegas nerve um specifically, uh those the and this 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:37.080 is why they call it the um gut brain microbiota 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:41.440 or microbiome access because what we're figuring out is, yes, 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:46.479 you have cells that lying your your intestines, your guts 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.720 that are neurons, You have neural cells, you have sensory cells, 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.240 you have a lot of the same cells that um 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.240 your brain uses to make sense of the world. Where 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.840 your gut has those same cells too. But we're figuring 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.520 out that the bacteria that lives in your gut is 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:07.640 actually communicating to your brain and saying, hey, change this behavior, 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:11.640 Hey try this instead. Hey have you considered a red sweater? 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:16.040 Greens just not your color, Like, the bacteria that live 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:18.640 in our gut are telling our brains what to do. 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.679 In some ways, it's pretty remarkable. This is why we 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:27.640 keep talking about this chuck. The bacteria. In addition to 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.319 doing all the other great things they do, they produce metabolites, 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:37.079 and these metabolites actually do function as neurotransmitters. And one 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.960 of the big examples that Dave dug up and this 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:41.840 is it's a big part of kind of one of 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.640 the cruxes of this communication with the gut in the 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.000 brain or these short chain fatty acids s f c 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:53.760 A s. They are byproducts, are natural byproducts of fermentation 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.720 when you're digesting this dietary fiber, if you're hopefully eating 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:00.719 enough dietary fiber, something I've had to do a lot 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.840 more lately. It's so good for you, it's crazy. It 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.320 seems like the key to health. It is. And I 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.600 don't want to get to uh gross here, but I've 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.439 been on a lot of high fiber and I have 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.400 been more gassy than I've ever been in my life. 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:22.199 And it's not even stinky gassy. It's just it's almost 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:28.280 just like air. Very lucky. Yeah, because those are saying my, my, 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.480 my toots don't stink anymore at all ever, But these 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.840 like fiber toots don't really stink. That is really bizarre, 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:40.480 because cruciferous vegetable toots can really clear room. I guess 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.080 there is a way to put it. That's your blessed, chuck, 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:47.520 your hashtag blessed. Oh well, my family's blessed, I guess. 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:51.800 But because I don't really care, but you're like, I 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:55.240 kind of miss it. But where were we short chain 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:59.240 fatty acids. Um, they are, like I said, natural byproducts, 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:02.480 and they play a really big role in the digestive track. 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.280 And they're sending there one of the things sending these 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:09.480 signals to your e n s and they're saying, hey, 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.880 maybe you should make more mucus. Maybe I can get 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:16.120 the gut a little less inflamed um, maybe I can 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:20.800 stop a little leakage from happening. And so so the 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:25.959 short chain fatty acids themselves, they're they're they're involved in neurotransmitters, 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.040 but apparently they can talk to the brain themselves to right, 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.719 like they don't have to convert into anything else, I think, 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.280 so like just through through the vegas nerve. Right, yes, 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:38.040 and so so here's where we're at. Yes, they go 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.560 through the vegas nerve. That's the key here, um. And 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.840 we've recently found a new kind of cell that line 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:49.440 the the gut that are actually connected. They connect the 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.480 gut to the vegas nerve. They're called neuropods cells. And 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.400 that's how they think that the gut is actually communicating 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:58.360 with the brain through the vegas nerve. They think they 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.440 found kind of like the smoking gun to the missing 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:04.000 link or whatever. But um, that's how these short chain 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.240 fatty acids would travel up the nerve, they would send 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.880 their signal up the nerve, or they would travel through 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.640 the circulatory system, which is another way that they figured 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:16.720 out the gut can actually impact the brain. Is so 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.200 you get the vagus, nerve um, and then you have 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.840 the circulatory system. And if all of those metabolites that 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.880 are being produced by your bacteria, they're fermenting in different 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:30.680 bacteria ferment create different metabolites as they ferment your food 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.840 and your dietary fiber, and those metabolites, like you said, 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.120 sometimes they're short chain fatty acids sometimes which can be 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:41.920 like a precursor to neurotransmitters or possibly a neuro transmitter itself. 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:50.480 They actually build actual neurotransmitters to like seratonin, UM, dopamine, GABBA, 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:55.720 nor adrenaline. All these things are actually constructed by the 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.600 bacteria in your gut as well. And we know for 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:00.840 a fact that those things can make it through the 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.600 circulatory system to the brain and they definitely have an 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.000 impact on the brain and what the brain does. All right, 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.440 maybe we should take a break, all right, take a 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.160 pause for the cause I'm just gonna keep talking through 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.600 the ad break. I'm too excited, all right, We'll be 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:46.240 back right after this. I skate, all right. So when 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.840 we left, we were talking about a lot of stuff 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.520 that sounds pretty amazing and that we're just figuring out, 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.880 one of which is that, uh, the short chain fatty 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.360 acids are actually able to stimulate that vegas nerve that 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:05.920 we were talking about that stimulates nerrow the production of neurotransmitters. 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.880 But here's sort of the the headline is some of 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.600 these neurotransmitters can actually play a role in mood disorders. 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.960 So we're not just talking about um a two way 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.080 street with things like fight or flight. We're talking about 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:25.680 potentially autism, Parkinson's depression, anxiety like we were talking about 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.840 with IBS. And they know this because they took in 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.680 these poor little mice that they're always, you know, doing 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.120 the hard work on mice, but they've taken mice. They've 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.520 severed the vegas nerve in mice to see what happened. 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:44.120 And what they observed was that this gut bacteria had 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:46.480 a real effect on brain chemistry because when they shut 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:50.880 it down, they found big time reduction in stress hormone levels. 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.240 Like they completely went away in these mice, right would 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.240 you would think they're stress hormones would go up having 0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:59.960 their vegus nerves ever, that would be a really stressful thing. 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.920 But now, um so that but that that's really like 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:06.080 a good illustration of the point that we're at in research. 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.040 We there's there's not been a thing where it's like, oh, 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.280 this is exactly how this happens. This is how your 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:16.280 gut microbiota affects you know, your your your brain and 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:19.159 your brain chemistry. We're not there yet. We just know 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:22.680 that there is a definite correlation, not just in my studies, Chuck, 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.480 but also in um human studies, which we'll talk about later. 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.080 Like there's plenty of human diseases that we've long known 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:33.120 if you have this disease, you also have like irritable 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.479 but irritable bowel syndrome or constipation is a hallmark of 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:41.440 this neurological disorder that um that you wouldn't expect. We've 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.840 known that they're connected, and that's it's all kind of correlative. 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.280 Now we're trying to figure out the causes of it. 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.399 That's right, and it's not just like this communication isn't 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.359 only happening through the vegus nerve. Uh. You kind of 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.080 briefly mentioned before the break. But there are all kinds 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.360 of ways that they're communicating that we're founding out. One 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:03.199 of them is through the circulatory system. We used to 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.480 think that the brain was just sort of shut down 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:10.200 from behind the blood brain barrier. But now they're they're 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:13.800 showing that, like hormones are getting through there, other things 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.680 are passing through. We've known about grellin. We've talked about 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.879 grellin for a while, the hunger hormone that basically the 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.399 stomach produces. It sends a message to the brain that 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.040 says I'm hungry. So we've known that can pass through. 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.159 But now they're learning things Like you mentioned serotonin to me. 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:31.960 This is one of the facts of the show of 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:37.960 our Serantonin is actually produced by gut bacteria. Yeah, and um, 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.480 I mean the brain also can produce serotonin, It can 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:45.640 produce its own, But it appears that right that the serotonin, 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.639 a lot of the serotonin that the brain uses comes 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:54.760 from the gut, comes from bacteria fermenting food and producing 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:58.159 as a biproduct of metabolism. It just so happens to 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:01.360 produce this neurotransmitter. And I don't think I don't think 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.200 anybody who's looking into this is saying it just so happens, 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.080 like we appear to have co evolved to take advantage 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:13.160 of this, Like these bacteria started colonizing our guts producing 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:16.480 serotonin so much that our bodies found a way to 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.920 really use serotonin in all sorts of different ways, including 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.919 our brain to regulate mood and stuff like that. And 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.639 that's like one of the one of the huge underlying 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.439 messages of this is that our microbiome, the bacteria that 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.479 live inside of us, they have way more genes than 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.800 we have. We have something like to genes in the 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:39.880 human genome, but our microbiome typically has something like two 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:43.840 million combined genes. And with those genes, with all those 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.480 extra genes that we don't have, all that bacteria can 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.960 produce stuff that we can't even produce, like vitamins and 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.800 neurotransmitters that we wouldn't necessarily be able to produce on 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.760 our own, and yet we rely on to function correctly. 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:02.640 That's that's like, that's the most amazing example of symbiosis 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.120 I've ever heard in my life. But the idea that 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:09.960 bacteria fermenting food in your gut chuck affects your mood 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:13.000 or your outlook or whether you have a um a 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:19.639 cognitive disorder. Like that's really substantial. It's super it's super substantial. 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.320 I know, I feel like I could have come up 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:26.000 with a better descriptor than really substantial, But I'm just 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:31.840 to agog. Should we talk about the study of college students? Yea, 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:34.920 as far as you know, trying to provide a link 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.199 between stretch, like a two way street between stress and 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:41.320 our gut. Uh. They said, well, there's no better place 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:45.679 to go than to college students who are prepping for exams. 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.240 And they said, if we're going to find out what's 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:50.040 going on down there, we need to look at their stools. 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:53.919 And they tested the stools during exam week and found 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:59.040 that their feces had a lot less lactobacilly, which is 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.399 one of the good back tier. Is then during the 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.480 first week week of class when they're just getting to 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:08.359 know each other and partying and stuff like that. The 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:11.600 same when they studied monkeys, little infant monkeys, And it's 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:13.879 one of those tests that's a little bit sad. No 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.240 one's dying here, but they're stressing out mama monkeys on purpose. 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.120 So they've got these mama monkeys and they'll play these 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.800 loud noises while they're pregnant to kind of like shock them. 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:28.399 And with the mothers who had to say, what, I 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:30.720 gotta stop you. I'm sorry, you just made a shock 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:36.800 the Monkey joke without even intending. Yes, I could not 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:44.240 let that walk by. Congratulations on the monkey Monkey great song. 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:49.200 Did you know I gotta shut the monkey? Do? Dude? 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.359 Do dude? Um? I wonder if they just walk around 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:56.720 singing that constantly? He was. Probably there's no way they don't. 0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.000 And then they get home at night and they're like, oh, 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:00.879 and they feel a little get about it because they 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.280 remember why they're singing shock the Monkey, because they're actually 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:07.040 shocking monkeys for a living. Or and we mean shocking 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:10.240 with loud noises, not shocking with electricity. Right, Well, yeah, 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.639 that's what I guess. Peter Gabriel men too, But no, 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:15.440 I think about I don't know, maybe he was talking 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.600 about with electricity or I wonder if there's just one 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:21.800 person like the person who runs the lab on their 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:24.720 way out says, you know, because they probably do it 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:26.080 in their sleep there so you remember you got to 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:29.280 shock the monkey tonight, and they everyone else just rolls 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:31.640 their eyes and they have to They have to put 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:35.320 up with Marty where the lab yeah, and where's the 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:39.240 piano keyboard? Tie? Every day. But they're different ones too, 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:41.160 because some of them have red backgrounds. You can tell 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:44.800 they're a little different alright. So, uh so they make 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:47.720 these loud noises and then the monkey, the mama monkeys 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:53.440 who were shocked, uh by these sounds, they had gut 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:57.639 microbiomes with a lot lower levels of this good bacteria 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:04.919 of lactobacilly and boy bifi doughe bacteria, bacteria that's like 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:08.200 stuff in yogurt, I think both of those, which we'll 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:13.760 get to all right there. But they had a despotic 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:17.400 disbiotic microbiome. Is the upshot of it, right, You get 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:21.040 unbalanced basically because of these stress noises that they hear, right, So, 0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:23.440 but it goes the other way too, that they're figuring 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:27.080 out that if your gut microbiome gets out of balance, 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:30.200 then that can make you stressed out right, that can 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:33.320 that can actually lead to mood disorders that they're they're 0:23:33.320 --> 0:23:36.159 connecting like a really poor diet. It's very low and 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:39.120 like dietary fiber, because again, that's what your microbiome likes 0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:42.600 to crunch on and produces really important things like serotonin 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:45.560 and dope. I mean from that, if you don't eat 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:49.080 very well, it's possible your mood might not be as great, 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:52.640