WEBVTT - Raising D&I Awareness in Hollywood

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. There's a long

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<v Speaker 1>long way to go when it comes to diversity and inclusion,

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<v Speaker 1>certainly in Hollywood. McKinsey's out with a study about just that,

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<v Speaker 1>looking at black representation in film and TV. Shoining us

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about it is McKinsey partner Sheldon Lynn joining

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<v Speaker 1>us on the phone in San Diego, along with Nina's Shaw,

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<v Speaker 1>attorney and founding partner at black Light black Light Collective,

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<v Speaker 1>that's coalition of black Hollywood executives, and she is on

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<v Speaker 1>the phone in Los Angeles. Sheldon and Nina. Nice to

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<v Speaker 1>have you here on Bloomberg. Sheldon, let me kick it

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<v Speaker 1>off with you tell us about this study. Hi, Carolyn,

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<v Speaker 1>and thanks for helping me. Sure excited to be here. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, we did this work um for a

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<v Speaker 1>confluence of the factors, and I would say there were

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<v Speaker 1>three main ones. Number One, there was the real lead,

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<v Speaker 1>so film and TV happens to be among the worst

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<v Speaker 1>performers university across all a your American industries. Number Two,

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<v Speaker 1>we felt we could add a net new contribution on

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<v Speaker 1>the existing body of work, in particular around building the

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<v Speaker 1>business case. What is the value at stake from a

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<v Speaker 1>failing to pursue diversity inclusion in Hollywood. Number three was

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<v Speaker 1>where Nina and the Black Hair Collective came in was

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<v Speaker 1>we felt there was a real path to change here

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<v Speaker 1>working with our folks who wanted to drive change forward.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's a bit of a context around the court.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll need to come on in on this and we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna dig into some of the results of of what

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<v Speaker 1>the mckensey research found out. But you know, I've been

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<v Speaker 1>reading some of the interviews you've done. You've talked about

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<v Speaker 1>being in the entertainment space, being a talent lawyer where

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<v Speaker 1>you've often only been the are You've often been the

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<v Speaker 1>only black individual in the room when there's something going on. Yes, well,

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<v Speaker 1>first of all, Sheldon, thank you so much, and Carol

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<v Speaker 1>gred to be here. Yes, UM, you know, I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's the entertaining industry as a whole. UM. Often UM

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<v Speaker 1>is viewed in a light of being a bit more

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<v Speaker 1>progressive than its numbers would indicate. UM. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's that progress that those progressive notions are real. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to in any way imply otherwise, but

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<v Speaker 1>but often it just doesn't match up. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>the wonderful thing about this study was that it really

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<v Speaker 1>dug in and it took a look at the numbers,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think the number that stands out for all

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<v Speaker 1>of us is this notion that ten billion dollars in

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<v Speaker 1>annual revenues every year is being lost as a result

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<v Speaker 1>of the lack of diversity in the business. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>something that should appeal to all of us as as

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<v Speaker 1>something that can be cured. Right, Like we often have

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<v Speaker 1>conversations here that above and beyond being the right thing

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<v Speaker 1>to do in terms of diversity and inclusion, there's often

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<v Speaker 1>a business cost Sheldon by not having that diversity. Yeah, absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>and Nina said it right. So the headline was that

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<v Speaker 1>there is a ten billion dollar opportunity here for us

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<v Speaker 1>to pursue diversity inclusion. And it came from what we found,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, quite surprising for a well established industries, a

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<v Speaker 1>set of factors that were in effect suppressing the market

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<v Speaker 1>the true market for black lid content in three important

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<v Speaker 1>and although surprising ways. The number one was on distribution.

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<v Speaker 1>So we found that on average it and the film

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<v Speaker 1>was being shown in thirty fewer countries versus a white

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<v Speaker 1>LID project, even though the black LID projects made more

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<v Speaker 1>per country. And the second thing, from our return of

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<v Speaker 1>investment perspective or a I, we found that black lid

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<v Speaker 1>projects were receiving ten less in marketing allocation even though

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<v Speaker 1>they were making more UM per dollar spent at the

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<v Speaker 1>box off, specifically sixteen cents more per dollar spent on marketing.

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<v Speaker 1>And perhaps the most heart breaking part of the equation

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of market inefficiency well the fact that only

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<v Speaker 1>four percent of the projects coming out of Hollywood were

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<v Speaker 1>accounted for by black treatings. To find us having black marieters, directors, producers,

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<v Speaker 1>creators behind the camera, which again is on a sounding

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<v Speaker 1>number when you think about the population average of thirteen

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<v Speaker 1>point four percent. So those factors together combined to the

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<v Speaker 1>big number ten billion dollars in lost value and that's

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<v Speaker 1>just from black representation. Yeah, pretty dramatic. Still with us

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<v Speaker 1>is McKinsey partner Sheldon Lynn. He is joining us on

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<v Speaker 1>the phone in San Diego. Nina Shaw with us attorney

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<v Speaker 1>and founding partner Black Light Collective. It's the two of

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<v Speaker 1>them together have come together put out this mckensey report,

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<v Speaker 1>partnering on it, and it's all about diversity, equity, and

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<v Speaker 1>inclusion when it comes to the film and television industries. Nina,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to get bring you in here because you

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<v Speaker 1>did work with them on this big time. The goal

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<v Speaker 1>of their part was to humanize black lives. Tell us

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<v Speaker 1>how you did that. It wasn't just statistics and numbers,

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<v Speaker 1>it was real people that you got to. Now we're

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<v Speaker 1>we were fortunate, um within the ninety or so individuals

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<v Speaker 1>who formed this loose coalition, the Blacklight Collective, you have

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<v Speaker 1>literally hundreds of years of experience in the entertainment industry um. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>people in the representation business like me, but also people

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<v Speaker 1>in the production business. So I thought that we lent

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<v Speaker 1>an incredible perspective as people who work day to day

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<v Speaker 1>in this industry and have done so for many years. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And and our collective action as an as a group

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<v Speaker 1>is really indicative of the kind of collective action that

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<v Speaker 1>we need to see within the industry. I think the report.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the report's conclusions is that this these are

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<v Speaker 1>tough problems to solve if they're being done within insular organizations,

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<v Speaker 1>that it's going to take a collective action across many

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<v Speaker 1>of the businesses in the industry to really address these solutions.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's in the first step in that of course,

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<v Speaker 1>is acknowledging that that these problems exist and that they

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<v Speaker 1>have to mend its financial impact. And we're so grateful

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<v Speaker 1>to Mackenzie for having done the work that really allows

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<v Speaker 1>us a launching pad for wheel change. All right, and

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<v Speaker 1>sit tight for second, guys, I just want to bring

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<v Speaker 1>a headline crossing the Bloomberg terminal. The CDC Advisors reaffirmed

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<v Speaker 1>backing of J and J vaccine authorization. So again we

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<v Speaker 1>knew the CDC was meeting today, they were again ten

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<v Speaker 1>days at the use of that drug has been halted

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<v Speaker 1>here in the United States. But the CDC advisors coming

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<v Speaker 1>out and reaffirming their backing of the J and J vaccine. UH,

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<v Speaker 1>that's emergency authorization for here in the United States. So

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<v Speaker 1>we now once again have another drug UH and vaccine

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<v Speaker 1>specifically that can be used against COVID nineteen here in

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<v Speaker 1>the United States. UM, let me get back to talking Michelle,

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<v Speaker 1>then lenover at Mackenzie, Nina Shaw of the Black Light Collective. Nina,

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<v Speaker 1>let me just follow up corporate America has had a

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<v Speaker 1>tough time. They're doing better, but when it comes to

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<v Speaker 1>senior positions in particular, whether it's women, whether it's black individuals,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's minorities, you know, they seem to increasingly still

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<v Speaker 1>or at least, I should say, continue to get left

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<v Speaker 1>out of some of those senior positions. And many would

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<v Speaker 1>say that until we have that, it's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>hard to kind of approve it or improve it all along, um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, all along the employment chain, if you will,

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<v Speaker 1>do you agree? Is that the same for Hollywood and TV? Yes? Um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the lack of representation, really the underrepresentation off screen,

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<v Speaker 1>the underread representation and leadership roles absolutely holds us back.

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<v Speaker 1>Now we've seeing progress. You see more people on screen,

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<v Speaker 1>and that is a good thing. It is still not

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<v Speaker 1>as as good as we would like it to be,

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<v Speaker 1>but we must not forget that those games that we're

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<v Speaker 1>making in front of the camera need to also be um,

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<v Speaker 1>also be had behind the camera and in the c suite.

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<v Speaker 1>And one of the things that people say to me

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<v Speaker 1>when they read the report that really knocks them out

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<v Speaker 1>is that how the entertainment industry is actually behind many

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<v Speaker 1>other sectors of the UH economy in terms of its

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<v Speaker 1>diversity and inclusion, because most people, when they are asked

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<v Speaker 1>to guess at which are the most diverse sectors, would

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<v Speaker 1>put us much higher in that in that in that

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<v Speaker 1>chain than we really are. So this has been this

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<v Speaker 1>this report has been great because it really, um have

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<v Speaker 1>made concrete that which many of us who work in

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<v Speaker 1>the industry always knew to be true. Right if there's

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<v Speaker 1>something too when you put out the numbers and show

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<v Speaker 1>it how it really is versus just um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>general observations, Sheldon, let me ask you to about stereotyping

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<v Speaker 1>and bias nous within Hollywood and TV. Part of the

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<v Speaker 1>report talks about, you know, the creative limitations that are

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<v Speaker 1>imposed on black talent that you know, I think there

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<v Speaker 1>is a stereotyping going on in terms of roles. We

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<v Speaker 1>see that going on, right, UM, tell us little bit

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<v Speaker 1>more about that, absolutely, Carol, you know you touched on

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<v Speaker 1>it before, Um. But one things we're able to do

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<v Speaker 1>with Nina and the Black leg Collective will really get

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<v Speaker 1>into the lived experiences and to be fear on credit.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of work has been done on the topic

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<v Speaker 1>of the versity in Hollywood. So doctor Hunted U c

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<v Speaker 1>l A doctor and Christina roman At U c l

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<v Speaker 1>A and Dr Stacey Summit USC has done a fear

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<v Speaker 1>bit of work. So we actually came in and tried

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<v Speaker 1>to add to that, and one was really digging into

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<v Speaker 1>the lived experiences of black professionals and I think we found,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, across the many individually, Dad, I think we

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<v Speaker 1>divie would over fifty professionals in depth in addition to

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<v Speaker 1>the broader Black leg collective, and we catalog Carol forty

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<v Speaker 1>five pain points all the way from how you get

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<v Speaker 1>an internship, getting paid well enough they can take that internship,

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<v Speaker 1>to getting an agent, to getting your projects stereotyped, to

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<v Speaker 1>the visions on certain around things like you're in makeup,

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<v Speaker 1>the perspective on what your public is worth based on

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<v Speaker 1>what market it will and we're not selling. So all

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<v Speaker 1>these pain points add up again that this massive value

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<v Speaker 1>destruction and what I would you know, point people to

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<v Speaker 1>is the real loss potentially around the creative art form.

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<v Speaker 1>How many additional great projects from black credits could we

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<v Speaker 1>have had if we had these conditions that negated these

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<v Speaker 1>fortified pain points that black professional space has been navigated

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<v Speaker 1>the industry right, Well, yeah, there's a quote in the

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<v Speaker 1>in the research one creative executive saying, quote, when studios

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<v Speaker 1>are looking for black content, they're looking for Wakonda or poverty,

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<v Speaker 1>with no in between. And then talk about black actors

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<v Speaker 1>who have to say, who explained, I have to take

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<v Speaker 1>stereotypical work because that's what's out there. But then when

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<v Speaker 1>I when I take those roles, they say that's all

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<v Speaker 1>I'm capable of. So it's this vicious cycle, Nina. One

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<v Speaker 1>thing I want to get to before we leave. We've

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<v Speaker 1>just got about a minute left here. What's the black

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<v Speaker 1>tax i? It represents something that we see across society. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>And it's unfortunate this notion that you have to work harder,

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<v Speaker 1>essentially pay dues at a certain level before you can

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<v Speaker 1>get to just even an even playing field, and that

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<v Speaker 1>makes entry into the into the entertainment industry in particular

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<v Speaker 1>extraordinarily difficult. Um Sheldon alluded to the fact that many

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<v Speaker 1>of the entry points are in jobs that don't pay

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<v Speaker 1>a living weight, so that immediately restricts the number of

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<v Speaker 1>people you can come and if you are not from

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<v Speaker 1>a background, and you don't have a family or other

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<v Speaker 1>means of support during this time, you find yourself unable

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<v Speaker 1>to compete, and then you look up and people who

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<v Speaker 1>started with you are far ahead of you because they

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have to take a second job to support themselves

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<v Speaker 1>doing their first job. They sent that time at home

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<v Speaker 1>reading scripts and and and networking and do the things

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<v Speaker 1>that advanced them in their career. And I can think

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<v Speaker 1>of several examples. Well, you know, I hope we can

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<v Speaker 1>continue this conversation in the future because I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>great that you guys have put out this research and

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<v Speaker 1>now people have something that they can work off of it,

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<v Speaker 1>because now it's got to lead to hopefully actions to

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<v Speaker 1>make a change. Mckensey partner, Sheldon Lynn, thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 1>Nina Shaw, attorney and founding partner at black Light Collective.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg