1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You from House top 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: Kristimp and I'm Caroline, and today we are looking at 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: the mail side of eating disorders with a special focus 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: on anorexia nervosa, especially because there was a pretty detailed 6 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: article that came out in g Q magazine in two 7 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: thousand twelve discussing the rising rates of anorexia among men. Yeah, 8 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: but also how hard it is for men to seek 9 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: treatment a lot of the time, Yeah, and also factors 10 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: that might be holding men back from seeking treatment to 11 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: begin with. So we wanted to take a closer look 12 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: at what's going on. And first let's start out in 13 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: six eight nine, which was when Sir Richard Morton provided 14 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: the first English language description of anorexia, and he reported 15 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: two adolescent cases, one female and one male. So even 16 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: though today we often think of anorexia as something that 17 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,199 Speaker 1: happens to girls and women, the very first case descriptions 18 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: were of a female and a male, and Morton described 19 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: the occurrences of quote unquote nervous consumption or a wasting 20 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: away due to emotional turmoil. Alright, So moving up to 21 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy four, Sir William Whitey Goal was the first 22 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: to call the condition anorexia nervosa, literally meaning nervous loss 23 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: of appetite. And before we go any further, UM, I 24 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: guess we should go ahead and offer um a trigger 25 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: warning for people out there who have struggled with eating 26 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: disorders before UM, We're not going to go into extreme 27 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: detail about UM specific people's experiences with eating disorders. We're 28 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: gonna be talking more UM clinically about the hallmarks of 29 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: it in men, and will also be mentioning bulimia and 30 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: binge eating as well. So just something to keep in 31 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: mind for any sensitive listeners out there. UM. But in 32 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, interrextener vosa, which is when you shun food 33 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: you are not eating at all or eating very very 34 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: little only the lowest amount of calories that you really 35 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: need to keep your body running in vosa, was officially 36 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: recognized as a psychiatric disorder, and since then, the research 37 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: on interorexia in men has been relatively scarce compared to 38 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: the research devoted to women suffering from it, and the 39 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: reason why there's been so much less attention paid to 40 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 1: men is because typically they comprise a small minority of 41 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: anorexius sufferers. For instance, in there was a study which 42 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: estimated that men comprise ten percent of the a N population, 43 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: and then in the year two thousand, The Times published 44 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 1: an article studying a Toronto study which found that that 45 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: rate had gone up to possibly one in six men 46 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,399 Speaker 1: who met the full or partial diagnostic criteria for anorexia. 47 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:17,119 Speaker 1: UM but what are we talking about, Caroline. Biologically, psychologically, 48 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: what's happening? Well, anorexia uni visa is an unhealthy way 49 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: to cope with emotional problems. It's not like I hate food, 50 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: I feel fat. There, it's so much more to that. 51 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: And actually there are some biological roots that researchers are investigating. 52 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: This could be genetic changes that makes some people more vulnerable, 53 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: but it's unclear exactly how or why. Some people do 54 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: tend to have a genetic tendency towards perfectionism, sensitivity, and perseverance, 55 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: all traits associated with anorexia, and in addition, serotonin may 56 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: play a role in the disease and for men struggling 57 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: with anorexia, the the typical male antorextic profile is someone 58 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: who tends to be ank, just obsessive, persevering and perfectionistic 59 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: with a desperty to please, as well as being hyper 60 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: sensitive to rejection and humiliation. All of these different forces 61 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: um that are combining and in the brain, some scientists 62 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: are are really looking into what's happening, what might be 63 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,679 Speaker 1: compelling people to not want to eat, and they found 64 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: that the insula in the brain regulates our bodily awareness, 65 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: and when too much norap and eprin is being released 66 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: in that area, uh, anorectics will feel full even when 67 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: they're not. They'll look in the mirror and see a 68 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: fat person even if they might be severely underweight. It 69 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: also elevates their pain thresholds, so it's like their body 70 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: doesn't even notice how much physical pain it's in, and 71 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: it puts people in constant fight or flight mode. Basically, 72 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: you're starving yourself and all of those kind of all 73 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: those systems are out of whack um And there's an 74 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: elm men of obsessive compulsive personality traits that can even 75 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: allow someone to reject food in that way, someone who 76 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: can stick to such a strict diet and forego food. 77 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: And on top of all of this, there are environmental 78 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: factors such as, of course, our cultural emphasis on thinness, 79 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: and also some risk factors, particularly for men, which include 80 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: being overweight as a child and specifically being bullied for 81 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: being overweight. Weight, regulated sports participation, people who are into running, wrestling, 82 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: and cycling maybe more primed for an eating disorder. A 83 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: New York Times story on this in June two thousand 84 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: pointed out that the similarities between men and women who 85 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: both suffer from anorexia are striking. Um Men also suffer 86 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: from low self esteem and perfectionism. They seek to gain 87 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: control over their lives by controlling their bodies, and they 88 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: often suffer from depression, anxiety, alcohol and drug abuse, and 89 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: other psychiatric conditions. They also, as Kristen mentioned, have severely 90 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: disordered body image. But as Christian pointed out, Dr Catherine Hallamy, 91 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: who was the director of the Eating Disorders program at 92 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: New York Presbyterian Hospital, found that the men who suffered 93 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: from anorexia were more likely to have been involved in 94 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: sports such as wrestling, biking, or diving that required weight control. 95 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: So it's almost as if I do wonder whether it's 96 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: a cause and effect, Like, you know, did this come about? 97 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: Did the obsession with tracking calories and weight come about 98 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: because of the sport they were participating in, or did 99 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: this perfectionism drive them to get into such a sport. Yeah, 100 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm sure that that might differ from 101 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: patient to patient. Um, But the very fact that we 102 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: often consider this more of a woman's disease is debilitating 103 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: for a lot of men because obviously their plenty ofmen 104 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: on their suffering from it as well, but because we 105 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: might think of it as something that happens to women, 106 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: it might go unrecognized in the men that they might 107 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: not even classify their extreme weight management or food monitoring 108 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: as a form of anorexy because oh, that's something that 109 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: happens to girls, or clinicians might not recognize it as well. 110 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: And because of that, eating disorders tend to last one 111 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: third longer in men because they are less likely to 112 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: step forward for treatment. And speaking of treatment, there might 113 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: also be a potential gender bias that happens in diagnosis 114 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: of anorexi in particular because the diagnostic and statistical manual 115 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: includes a menorrhea, which is the absence of at least 116 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: three mentional cycles as one of the qualifiers, and obviously 117 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: men don't have mentional cycles, so that's you know, one 118 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: area that might be addressed, even though their endocrine cycle 119 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: is certainly disrupted. Yeah, men's testosterone levels actually plummet when 120 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: they're intorexic and their sex drive vanishes. But speaking of treatment, 121 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of the residential eating disorder treatment 122 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: centers that are out there don't admit men out of 123 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: a belief that treatment should be sex specific. And this 124 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: was talked about in that g Q article you mentioned, 125 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: kristen Um. A lot of these programs find men might 126 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: actually remind some of these female patients about abuse they 127 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: have suffered, for instance, men that they've lived with who've 128 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: treated them poorly, and so they just would rather stick 129 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: to young women. One person was quoted as saying, look, 130 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: you know, when women are in their nightgowns on the 131 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: scales being weighed, talking about their periods, they don't want 132 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: men to be around, right. Um. But at the same time, 133 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 1: you know that that does leave a gap for men 134 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: out there who need help. The Alliance for Eating Disorder 135 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: Awarenesses two thousand eleven two thousand and twelve guide listed 136 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: five out of fifty eight residential treatment centers in the 137 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: US that admitted men, so less than half of them 138 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: and and the thing about treatment to that we might 139 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: not realize when it comes to anorexia is that it's 140 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: not just about putting uh plate of food in front 141 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: of one and saying eat and everything being fine. It's not. 142 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: It's not as simple as that, because the potassium and 143 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: calcium deficiencies that are associated with longer term intorexia are 144 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: literally causing people's bones to rot. There might be cognitive 145 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: damage involved because of that malnutrition. It can help puberty, 146 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: especially depending on the age that it starts, because like 147 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: you talked about caroline, those drops in testosterone, and there's 148 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: something called refeeding syndrome, which is if the body might 149 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: go into shock from eating food that can end up 150 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: killing a person. So having a place to go an 151 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: actual treatment center is a crucial resource for people who 152 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: are struggling with this. So as recently as a decade ago, 153 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: clinicians believe that only five of antorectics were male. Current estimates, 154 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: like we mentioned, suggests it's closer and rising fast. And 155 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: one thing one aspect that is rising for men is 156 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: been eating. And this is in a New York Times 157 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: story in August binge eating, interestingly enough, is not considered 158 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: a quote unquote woman's disease as much as like anorexia 159 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: or bulimia would be in the sex differences are pretty 160 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: evenly split. So they found that eight million people in 161 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: the US struggle with binge eating. It's a problem shared equally. 162 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: About eleven percent of women and seven point five percent 163 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: of men among those surveyed in a twelve study acknowledge 164 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: some degree of binge eating. The problem, though, just like 165 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: in these other eating disorders, is that men rarely seek treatment. 166 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: Being overweight is more socially acceptable for a man, and 167 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: one man quoted in this story basically says like, look, 168 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: if I go home or to my dorm room and 169 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: eat an entire pizza, like it's just a college guy 170 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: eating a whole pizza. Whatever, it's fine. However, he said, 171 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: you know if a woman does that, she's horrified with 172 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: herself and might say, oh, what's wrong? What am I 173 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: doing to myself? There's just a lot of um different 174 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: social acceptance levels for these different conditions. Now, the unfortunate 175 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 1: part about all of these UM the rising levels of 176 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: eating disorders UM anorexia specifically for this episode. The um 177 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: that we're talking about is not just that there are 178 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: Mormon suffering but it's a sign that those same socio 179 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: cultural forces that initially kind of made anorexia more of 180 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: a gender disease that was affecting more women because of 181 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: the pursuit of the thinness ideal that's often more pushed 182 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 1: on women, that same thing is now happening to men. 183 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: There was an eating disorders expert Dr Anderson was talking 184 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: to The New York Times from that two thousand article 185 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: that we cited, saying that I think that men are 186 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: simply following a decade or two behind women in terms 187 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: of being exposed to body images that are increasingly difficult 188 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: to achieve, and men still would lag behind in terms 189 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: of anorexia because the thinness ideal is something that's more 190 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: pedaled to women whereas for men. And this is something 191 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 1: we talked about in our episode on body dysmorphia. Strive 192 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: more for the look of extreme muscularity, right, And this 193 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: is brought up in an Atlantic story from April that 194 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: kind of positioned girls in their barbie dolls against boys 195 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: and their g I. Joe action figures, saying that some 196 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: researchers believe that most male action figures promote that hyper 197 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: muscular physique that's associated with supreme masculinity. Um, just as 198 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: women might think I'm more feminine when I'm thin and willowy, 199 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: men might think I'm more masculine if I'm big and bulky. 200 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: And so then you have this rise in young men 201 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: using steroids and supplements to fix what is an internal problem. 202 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: It's body dissatisfaction. And so they're also the problems of 203 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: over exercising, restricting binge eating like we talked about, but 204 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: also purging, because if you think about it, that's cologist 205 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: Dr Arnold Anderson, so that dieting is just not as 206 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: socially acceptable for men, so many adopt purging behaviors instead. 207 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 1: Like it's one thing you know in society, if a 208 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: woman orders just a salad and some lemon water, if 209 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: a man does that, you're looked at as some kind 210 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: of sissy. And I mean, for evidence of how this 211 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: big orexia as it's called that strive for muscularity and 212 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: also male in orexia plays out in similar ways as 213 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: it does with men, I went online and googled male finnspo. 214 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: You know those images of extremely thin men that we 215 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: often associate with women, like female fits, thinspo and even 216 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: fit spo Fit spiration is something that a lot of 217 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: social media sites like Pinterest and Tumbler have cracked down 218 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: on girls posting these pictures of other girls who are 219 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: extremely underweight. But it's like they completely forgot the internet 220 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 1: did that men and also struggle with eating disorders and 221 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:07,239 Speaker 1: that male fins bow exists. And I was so surprised 222 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,599 Speaker 1: to find just how much stuff was on there, And 223 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 1: it was as though, I mean, it's just it's just 224 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: sitting there out in plain sight, I feel like. And 225 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: yet we're just now trying acknowledging the fact that oh, okay, 226 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: eating disorders happened to men as well. And while we 227 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: might call it something catchy like men arexia, no, it's 228 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: not something different at all. It's anorexia. And it's interesting 229 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: what pursuing either that thin muscular ideal or that big, 230 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: bulky ideal means as far as our perceptions of masculinity. 231 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: There was a study in March March of this year 232 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: UH in the Journal of Eating Disorders that found self 233 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: perceived masculinity is higher in men with muscle dysmorphia, while 234 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: men with anorexia nervosa relate more strongly to feminine stereotypes. 235 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: And study leader Dr Stewart Murray said that the results 236 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: don't necessarily mean that men with anorexia were any less 237 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: masculine or the men with muscle dysmorphia were less feminine 238 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: in their control subjects. It is, however, he says, an 239 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: indication of the increasing pressures men are under to define 240 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: their masculinity in the modern world. So again dealing with 241 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: this issue of masculinity, which isn't an outward thing necessarily, 242 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: it's more of an internal thing. I would think your 243 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: your perception, the way you define yourself, but seeking to 244 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: do so in an outward way. How you how you 245 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: shape your body, because men are affected in the in 246 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: the same way that women are by all of these 247 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: images of idealized masculinity, whatever that form might be, whether 248 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: or not it is the very thin, extremely lean male 249 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: figure or like you said, kind of that bulkier stockier um, 250 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: super muscular physique um. And one thing though, that we 251 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: need to talk about is sexual orientation, because study after 252 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: study has found that, compared to the relatively low population size, 253 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: gay men do comprise a disproportionately large percentage of the 254 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: antero exit clinical community. And so initially, when these studies 255 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: came out. The wrong conclusion was that being gay is 256 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: somehow a risk factor for developing an eating disorder, you know, 257 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: kind of tacking on something else that must be wrong 258 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: with these men. But the research now has come to 259 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: find but no, that's that's really not what's going on. 260 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: It's it's a bit more nuanced than that. Yeah. Dr Anderson, 261 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: who excited, said that there's nothing about gainess itself that 262 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: increases eating disorders. But he says there's a lot in 263 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: the fact that the community is highly stereotype norms for 264 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: what is attractive, so again trying to fit in with those, uh, 265 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: those images that you're pursuing. And according to the National 266 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: Eating Disorder Information Center in Toronto, the combination of growing 267 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: up feeling excluded and shunned, longing for acceptance and love 268 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: on the one hand, and a culture strongly linking acceptance 269 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: and love with a particular physical appearance on the other hand, 270 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: creates enormous pressure to attain that ideal body and because 271 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: of that. In April two thousand seven, there was a 272 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: widely publicized study that came out in the International Journal 273 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 1: of Eating Disorders which found that gay and bisexually identified 274 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: men had significantly higher prevalent estimates of eating disorders than 275 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: heterosexual men. But for the women in the study, there 276 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: was no difference in eating disorder rates across sexual orientation. 277 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: And so they said that that highlights the socio cultural 278 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: forces at work that are just peddling all of these 279 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: images to women. It's kind of like an equal, equal 280 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: opportunity offender for women. But they're saying, well, why is 281 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: there the disparity among gay men and straight men? And 282 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: they think that it's kind of a dual thing of 283 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: a sexual objectification and at work kind of striving for 284 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: that thinness of deal ideal, but also an internalized homo 285 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: negativity um, which is a higher body shame that is 286 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: kind of taking on all of the negativity and prejudice 287 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: that society has heaped on gay people and internalizing that 288 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: into a body shame. And that's how it's manifesting in 289 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 1: certain cases with eating disorders. And part of why gay 290 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: men seem to be overrepresented among all men with anorexia 291 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: could be that they're just more willing to come forward 292 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: and identify themselves as having an eating disorder. Yeah, and 293 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: and it's a it's another thing to where um it 294 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 1: might just be problems that manifest themselves differently in different populations, 295 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: because heterosexual men are more likely to experience that kind 296 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: of body dysmorphia and the muscularity pursuit, while as for 297 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: gay men, it might manifest more as anorexia or bulimia. 298 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: So there's still like all these different thing ings going on. UM. 299 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: But one risk factor two that researchers have looked into 300 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: is a history of childhood sexual abuse. UM. There was 301 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: a study that came out again in the International Journal 302 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: of Eating Disorders in July two thousand seven, which found 303 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: the game bisexual men with a history of childhood sexual 304 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: abuse are significantly more likely to have subclinical bulimia or 305 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: any current full syndrome or subclinical eating disorder compared with 306 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: men without such a history. And that makes sense. I mean, 307 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: any kind of childhood trauma is often a risk factor 308 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: for these kinds of disorders because, like you mentioned, caroline, 309 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: eating disorders are often a form of emotional coping mechanism. 310 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: But I mean, as several studies have pointed out, it's 311 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: not the sexual orientation itself that's an independent risk factor. 312 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: There are a lot more factors involved in why men 313 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: in general and gay men also develop anorexia, and there 314 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: does seem to still be this hierarchy of research paid 315 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: to anorexia in particular, where it starts off with looking 316 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: at it in female populations above and beyond, and then 317 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: there is all this attention paid to gay male populations, 318 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: and now we're finally getting down to just looking at 319 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: men in general, saying, oh, wait, okay, no, this is 320 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: going on across you know, sexual orientation and affecting so 321 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: many men one in six estimated men. But they are 322 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: either not stepping forward of seeking treatment or maybe we're 323 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: not looking for it because we still have a gendered 324 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: perception of that um. But the reason why it's so 325 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: important that researchers continue to pay attention to it and 326 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: that public awareness is raised of eating disorders among men 327 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: is that anorexia specifically has the highest mortality rate of 328 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: any mental illness of even recovered anorexics don't reach life 329 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: expectancy because of the damage done to their body, like 330 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: the you know, those potassium and seemed deficiencies and how 331 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: it harms your bones, the potential cognitive deficiencies, all of 332 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: this different stuff that makes it a very dangerous mental 333 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: illness to let go untreated. Well, we hope this has 334 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: been helpful for you listeners, um and giving you a 335 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: little bit of perspective on something that is not talked 336 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: about as much as maybe the women and girls who 337 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: are struggling with anorexia these days. UM, if you are 338 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: someone you know are struggling with an eating disorder, we 339 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: do recommend you look up the Alliance for Eating Disorder 340 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: Awareness online. Yeah, you can find um plenty of resources there. Um. 341 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: And if you would like to write to us as well, UM, 342 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. Mom. Stuff at 343 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is where you can send your letters. 344 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: You can also send us a message on Facebook. UM. 345 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: But again, if you you know, even if you might 346 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: not fit you know, the standard assumed definition of someone 347 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: who just never eats, it doesn't mean that you know 348 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: there might be something going on, So pay attention to 349 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: your own patterns and um, you know, if you have 350 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: a friend going through something, reach out as well, because 351 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: it's it's a dangerous disease. And now back to letters. Well, 352 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: we've got a couple of emails here on our episode 353 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: on gender and cleanliness, and I have one here from 354 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,719 Speaker 1: Rachel who just got back from visiting her twenty two 355 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 1: year old brother, who lives with two other male roommates 356 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: of similar age. She says, I think when it comes 357 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: to living with people, the cleanliness of the living living 358 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: space depends on the strength and perseverance of the person 359 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: who has the highest standard, not the gender. My brother 360 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: in one roommate really don't care all that much about cleaning, 361 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: while the third is quite neat. However, the third one 362 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,719 Speaker 1: does not insist that my brother and the other one 363 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: do their fair share of chores. I believe that my 364 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: brother is not actively ignoring messy areas, he just doesn't notice. 365 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: As a result, the neat roommate is irritated when he 366 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: has to do all the cleaning and trash removal, which 367 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: only seemed to apply to the kitch. And because I 368 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: disinfected the bathroom before showering, this included kicking dirty clothes 369 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: into various rooms, especially since my brother likes to leave 370 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 1: a trail of clothes to the shower from whatever location 371 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: he decides on showering. And I live in an apartment 372 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: with one roommate, and when I arrived, everything was grungy, 373 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: there was some mold in the bathroom, et cetera. But 374 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: I created a rotating weekly chore list and shared it 375 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: with my roommate. Now each have two chores to accomplish 376 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: at some point during a given week. A previous roommate 377 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: introduced me to the strategy and it worked well. Common 378 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: rooms get cleaned weekly, but there's not a lot of pressure, 379 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: and we each do our chores when we have the time. 380 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: So it sounds like a good strategy for keeping things 381 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: clean with roommates. So thanks Rachel. Indeed, and here's a 382 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 1: letter from Lily. She says, I've always been someone who 383 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: doesn't mind a little bit of clutter, and as a kid, 384 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: I would definitely let my room turn into a tornado 385 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: once in a while. My boyfriend of five years is 386 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: so much better at keeping a clean house than I am. 387 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: When we first met, his room was always neat. At first, 388 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: I thought it was just to impress me, But as 389 00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: I got to know him better and now that we 390 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: lived together, I realized that being an uncluttered person is 391 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: a part of who he is. For example, he makes 392 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: sure the dishwashers emptied every night, and he gets annoyed 393 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: if I leave my purse or jackets lying around. His 394 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: tools are superbly organized, and so are his clothes in 395 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: his dresser. Me, on the other hand, I just don't 396 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: care as much if I leave the dishes for a 397 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: night or throw my clothes on the ground. I'll pick 398 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: them up later. But relationships are about compromise, and I 399 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: can say that his ability to live uncluttered has actually 400 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: made me a better person. I know that being organized 401 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,360 Speaker 1: and clean makes her a better or less stressful living environment, 402 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: but knowing and doing when it comes to organization haven't 403 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: always come hand in hand. For me, having someone that 404 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: pushes me to live like that, that expects me to 405 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: do my share of the chores, has helped me developed 406 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: new habits and ultimately makes my life better. However, washing 407 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: the bed sheets, brushing his teeth, and washing his hands 408 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: are totally different stories. I've given up on him in 409 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: those areas, so thank you, Lily, and I agree. Living 410 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: with dude roommate, I've been forced to be a neater 411 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: person in the common space anyway. Well that's a good thing. 412 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: So thanks you everyone who has written into Mom's Stuff 413 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com, where you can send your letters. 414 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: You can also find us over on Facebook and follow 415 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: us on Twitter at Mom's Stuff podcast. You can follow 416 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: us on Tumbler as well. It's stuff Mom Never told 417 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: You dot tumbler dot com. And if you would like 418 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: to get smarter this week, you should add to our 419 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: website it's how stuff Works dot com for more on 420 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff 421 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: works dot com