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Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, where

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Speaker 1: we explore some of the big money issues we were

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Speaker 1: the sports like. I'm Scarlett and we are talking golf,

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Speaker 1: and who better to talk about it than the CEO

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Speaker 1: of the United States Golf Association, Mike want Mike, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Business of Sports, Scarlett, Michael Damien, thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me. I appreciate it. Well, let's start with

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Speaker 1: the obvious here. What do you see coming down the

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Speaker 1: road now? And I'm saying it now tw twenty three?

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Speaker 1: What happened to what happened? My hair turned great? Everything?

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Speaker 1: Just I'm old what happened here? But now it's what

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Speaker 1: do you see down the road to golf? You know,

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Speaker 1: it's funny you say that. I tell people all the time,

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Speaker 1: none of us could have anticipated what COVID meant to

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Speaker 1: our game. Um. You know, COVID meant a lot of

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Speaker 1: things to a lot of people, but for the game

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Speaker 1: of golf, it meant an explosion. We went. Um. I

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Speaker 1: said this to a manufacturer the other day. Could any

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Speaker 1: of us have have have perceived just a few years

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Speaker 1: ago that we'd um we'd be out of inventory at retail?

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Speaker 1: You know? We see we'd see growth levels highest in history,

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Speaker 1: that the game would be driven by youth and women

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Speaker 1: and people of color. We'd we'd see huge booms in

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Speaker 1: both on course and off course following the game creases

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Speaker 1: and watching the game. It's really it's really a special time.

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Speaker 1: And again, we've always talked about in golf this thing

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Speaker 1: we called latent demand, which is people always say I

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Speaker 1: wish I had more time. If I had more time,

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Speaker 1: I'd play golf. We never knew if that was really

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Speaker 1: true or if that's just something somebody said. But if

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Speaker 1: twenty two proved anything and proved that latent demand was real. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And the levels we're seeing in the game are like

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Speaker 1: like something we've never seen before, it's certainly exciting. I

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Speaker 1: think for anyone who has a golf um organization, one

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Speaker 1: thing that I think you will have to contend with

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Speaker 1: in three is a lot of legal issues as well,

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Speaker 1: whether it's lived Golf, whether it's the DJs, any trust

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Speaker 1: probe um. The dj recently expanded it's probe of p

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Speaker 1: G A to the US Golf Association to Augusta National

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Speaker 1: as well MPG of America. Is this a reasonable investigation?

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Speaker 1: From where you sit you know, I'm not sure if

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Speaker 1: I have the legal background to decide what's reasonable legally,

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Speaker 1: but there's definitely things we do together as a as

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Speaker 1: a sport, and thank goodness, we do, whether that's some

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Speaker 1: first tease and drive chip and puts and girls golf,

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Speaker 1: all things that we all combined together to h to

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Speaker 1: really take to another level. I don't remember ever in

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Speaker 1: my life having a conversation with another sports entity about

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Speaker 1: how I filled my US Open field or how I

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Speaker 1: run a championship or my qualifiers. So um, I've said

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Speaker 1: from the very beginning, I'm happy to let my actions

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Speaker 1: as it relates to, uh, what we do or don't do,

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Speaker 1: speak for themselves. You know, we played the US Open

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Speaker 1: in two people that had qualified for our posted criteria

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Speaker 1: played in it no matter where they were playing the

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Speaker 1: week before the week after. Um, it was a great championship.

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Speaker 1: And it's kind of back It's startlet that was saying

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Speaker 1: before was in a strange way, and people kind of

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Speaker 1: always look at the negative. But you know, when when

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Speaker 1: billions of dollars has some place to spend, and spend

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Speaker 1: it in sport, the fact that golf is at the

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Speaker 1: top of that list says a lot about where our

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Speaker 1: sport is right now in terms of not just interest

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Speaker 1: here in the States, but but really around the world.

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Speaker 1: You know, Mike, I was having this conversation of a

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Speaker 1: break and you know, a friend of mine said, you know,

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Speaker 1: the problem with live is it's not that he took

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Speaker 1: the best golfers. They just did the best villains. You know,

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Speaker 1: they took some great personalities. You know, they took Michelson,

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Speaker 1: they took surgery, they said, cam Smith. And my question

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Speaker 1: for you is this, now, what we're seeing is the

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Speaker 1: PGA just by you know, just what we saw over

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Speaker 1: the weekend, the Tournament of Champions in Hawaii elevated per

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Speaker 1: smaller field. Is this what we can expect from the

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Speaker 1: PGA going forward? You know, it's funny people always say

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Speaker 1: to me, and just like you started your note with

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Speaker 1: the problem of golf is and I always say, the

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Speaker 1: problem with golf is the fact that we're spending of

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Speaker 1: our time talking about point zero zero one percent of

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Speaker 1: the people that play it and played granted at a

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Speaker 1: high level and get paid to play it at a

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Speaker 1: level none of the rest of us can perceive if

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Speaker 1: it wasn't for this kind of weird you know, disruption

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Speaker 1: um that wherever it shakes out, it shakes out. You know,

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Speaker 1: the game. The game will find its footing for hundreds

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Speaker 1: of years. It always has. But it's it's the real

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Speaker 1: shame of it isn't you know what a couple of

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Speaker 1: guys are doing or aren't doing, or you know who's

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Speaker 1: funding it. The real shame of it is because we're

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Speaker 1: spending our time talking about this. What we're not talking about,

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Speaker 1: you know, is the greatest boom in female golf, junior's golf,

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Speaker 1: people of color. You know what's happening in terms of

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Speaker 1: top golfs of the world, and how that's you know,

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Speaker 1: how that's throwing in about another ten million people a year,

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Speaker 1: half of which never have walked on a green gorse,

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Speaker 1: green grass course in their life. So you know, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about that, you know, the greatest situation in terms

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Speaker 1: of public facilities financially that they've ever been in. So

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Speaker 1: that's the to me, the problem with golf isn't. Isn't

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Speaker 1: what's happening for you know, a couple of hundred folks

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Speaker 1: who will no matter what they choose, they're probably going

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Speaker 1: to be pretty well off. The problem is we spend

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Speaker 1: our time talking about a couple hundred folks when the

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Speaker 1: rest of the game, quite frankly is is healthier than

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Speaker 1: not only than it's ever been. But I think anybody

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Speaker 1: could have ever predicted, you know, something else about golf.

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Speaker 1: And I was thinking about this. Golf to me, is

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Speaker 1: the only major sport where you know, in football is like, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: if you know someone so played in today's game would

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Speaker 1: be totally different. Golf is the only game I can

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Speaker 1: think of where you had a guy like a Bobby

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Speaker 1: Jones who could compete today out there on the course.

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Speaker 1: And what does that say about the golf athlete, Because

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Speaker 1: that that is saying something. Yeah, it's it's it's pretty amazing.

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Speaker 1: It's why we take our history so serious. Because to

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Speaker 1: your point, I don't know if, um, you know, if

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Speaker 1: what's happened to you know, whitelisting and training and everything

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Speaker 1: else for some other sports. But I don't think there's

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Speaker 1: anybody on the planet who doesn't believe that if Jack

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Speaker 1: Nicholas was twenty five today and Tiger Woods was twenty

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Speaker 1: five today and Bobby Jones, we wouldn't have one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest match players in history because they'd all be

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Speaker 1: you know, they'd all be the top of the game.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a unique sport in so many ways.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I don't last poetically on it, but

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Speaker 1: um I got involved in it is I remember my

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Speaker 1: father saying, I'm gonna teach you a game that you'll

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Speaker 1: play the rest of your life. Everything else you're currently playing,

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Speaker 1: you'll probably never play again when you're my age. And

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Speaker 1: you know the time, you roll your eyes because that's

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Speaker 1: just dad talking. But none of us realized when we

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Speaker 1: walk off a football field to the last time or

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Speaker 1: a baseball field, that we're probably never going to get

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Speaker 1: you know, that many people together to play that kind

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Speaker 1: of But you know, I'm as competitive at fifty eight

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Speaker 1: as I was at twenty eight in golf. It's just

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Speaker 1: as much a part of my life as it was then.

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Speaker 1: And it's a unique sport that way. I mean, people

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Speaker 1: build vacations around it, you know, travel around it, and

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Speaker 1: and uh and and and viewing around it. So it's um,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a lifestyle more than it's a game. It's

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Speaker 1: a lifestyle more than it's a game. For those who

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Speaker 1: are out on the green. Um, I haven't hit that

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Speaker 1: point yet, but so I'm a little bit still obsessed

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Speaker 1: with things like live golf and and the point one

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Speaker 1: percent who maybe the villains of the sport as Damien's

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Speaker 1: friends playing. I wonder, Mike, um, has there been any

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Speaker 1: consideration given to adjusting rules for qualifying for the US Open,

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Speaker 1: because right now live tournaments don't qualify for World ranking points? Uh,

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Speaker 1: there will do our qualifications for three probably uh probably

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Speaker 1: soon here now into twenty three. But um, scarlet, if

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Speaker 1: you don't follow it that close. But I tell you

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Speaker 1: is we didn't make any adjustments to um how people

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Speaker 1: qualified for the US Open. And in the in that case,

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Speaker 1: lives lives players or players that were at the time

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Speaker 1: currently playing on the live tour that had qualified for

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Speaker 1: the US Open played in the US Open. And we'll

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Speaker 1: give you a good example. If you win a US Open,

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Speaker 1: you get ten years of exemption into a US Open.

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Speaker 1: If you win another major, we give you five years

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Speaker 1: of exemption. So there's there's players playing on other tours

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Speaker 1: that have earned that have earned an exemption into our event.

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Speaker 1: I've said many times, I can't imagine me telling somebody

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Speaker 1: that they earned something one year and two years later

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Speaker 1: saying that it doesn't exist anymore. But in terms of

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Speaker 1: getting to the US Open, it's a really different championship. Again,

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Speaker 1: if you don't follow us closely, half of my championship

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Speaker 1: comes out of open qualifiers. What that means is you

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Speaker 1: literally have to pay your fee and show up at

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Speaker 1: a golf course and over thirty six holes, and over

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Speaker 1: a long period of time, we have a hundred nine

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Speaker 1: different qualifiers and forty four different states. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you're gonna play, anybody can play their way into a

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Speaker 1: US Open, regardless what their world ranking is. So it

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Speaker 1: is truly an open championship. Doesn't mean it's easy. You know,

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Speaker 1: we'll have twenty thousand people competing for you know, seventy

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Speaker 1: five spots. But but that's what's made it special for

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Speaker 1: over a hundred years. Well, Mike, one of the big

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Speaker 1: initiatives that the U s g A put into place

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Speaker 1: last year, it was unifying the game through handicapping, right,

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Speaker 1: making a handicap easy and accessible for you know, any

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Speaker 1: golfer to attain. Also to make those handicaps update more quickly.

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Speaker 1: And you've done a great job of that. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think it's real time almost now. You know, it

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Speaker 1: used to be a week or they used to be

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Speaker 1: a lad. But you know, my question for you is this,

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Speaker 1: what sort of initiative do you have to make sure

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Speaker 1: that people actually enter their score because sandbagging has become

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Speaker 1: at least in my other people I play with, it's

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Speaker 1: become a real issue for me, and I'm just wondering

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Speaker 1: if you have any initiatives playing well. One of the

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Speaker 1: things people either love about the game or hate about

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Speaker 1: the game is in general, we believe that people will

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Speaker 1: approach the game from an honest perspective. Doesn't mean that's

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Speaker 1: always true, but I've I've said this many times. You know,

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Speaker 1: we golf. You called penalties on yourself, and it happens

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Speaker 1: at the professional level, collegiate level, and at the recreational level.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine, you know, a pass getting knocked down

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Speaker 1: in the NFL and the defender stands, Wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: I think I interfered with him. Um, But that's really

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Speaker 1: what happens every week on a golf course. So you know,

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Speaker 1: if if somebody doesn't want to post scores and plus

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Speaker 1: a higher handicapped, pretty sure golf Carma will take care

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Speaker 1: of that. But you're right, I mean, what's what really

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Speaker 1: changed in this game? And what really makes the game

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Speaker 1: unique is because we have a handicapping system. Because it's

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Speaker 1: easy as entering scores and then knowing what you stand.

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Speaker 1: You can get off a plane in Thailand, walk to

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Speaker 1: the first t and have a forty seven year old female,

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Speaker 1: eighty eight year old male and a twelve year old

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Speaker 1: boy and compare handicaps and play a game. I mean,

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Speaker 1: try that with you try that with football or basketball

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Speaker 1: or based well, So it's really kind of we have

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Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty countries in the world all on

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Speaker 1: the same handicapping system. We handicapped the golf courses all

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Speaker 1: of the worlds where they can use it. So it's

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Speaker 1: a pretty unique sport in the fact that no matter

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Speaker 1: where you play, no matter where you grow up, and

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Speaker 1: more importantly where you travel, you can actually play the

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Speaker 1: game and actually competitively play the game. Um that just

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Speaker 1: doesn't exist in almost any other sport. And Mike also,

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Speaker 1: any initiatives you have so that people actually know what

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Speaker 1: they have in a particular hole. It maybe a math class,

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Speaker 1: you know, counting, so that you know they get a bogey,

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Speaker 1: you know they know what it's. You know, they always

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Speaker 1: think it's a bogie when it's a double bogey. You know,

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Speaker 1: is there any getting you know, it's funny. I was

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Speaker 1: playing over the holidays, uh and uh this guy kept

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Speaker 1: entering his scores on his Apple Watch and I knew

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Speaker 1: we were working at it. But I called in and

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Speaker 1: I said, are we Are we there already or is?

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Speaker 1: This guy said no, no, you can actually, So I'm

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Speaker 1: embarrassed to tell you the CEO I wasn't. I wasn't

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Speaker 1: a word that people are entering school. So there here's

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Speaker 1: entering a hole by whole scores and even stats on

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Speaker 1: his Apple Watch. By the time he finished his round

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Speaker 1: and he had he had posted it. Yeah, it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: I mean our cost does that right? I mean at

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Speaker 1: the to be around right, you could just kind of

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, so it's pretty awesome. I got to

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Speaker 1: give a shout out to you guys. By the way,

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Speaker 1: you guys launched the inaugural US Adaptive Open, and it's

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Speaker 1: championship that showcases the world's best golfers with disabilities. Tell

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Speaker 1: us about that, Yeah, you know, we have, we have

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Speaker 1: We have always had fourteen national championships, and I'm proud

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Speaker 1: of fact that it's it's old, it's young, it's males female,

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Speaker 1: it's teams, it's individuals, amateur and professional. But the fifteen

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Speaker 1: we launched last July UM and yeah, the US Adaptive

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Speaker 1: Open is really for players with disabilities. Which really unique

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Speaker 1: about it is UM we had eight different classes of disabilities,

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Speaker 1: whether it's single, single, alleg empute, dueling, ampute, we had

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Speaker 1: neurological differences, site differences, and it was it's I've said

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Speaker 1: this many times. We really believed at the U s

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Speaker 1: J we were doing that for them. We're going to

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Speaker 1: create this for the athletes that deserved it, and quite frankly,

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Speaker 1: we were, and we did. But for all of us

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Speaker 1: who were there and worked that event, we realized maybe

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Speaker 1: afterwards it was as much for us as it was

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Speaker 1: for them. And in the inspiration that these athletes give

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Speaker 1: you is second to none. And we we believe that

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Speaker 1: if we created a national champ when we when we

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Speaker 1: got golf of the Olympics back in two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 1: when golf was approved Olympics, we asked about the Paralympics

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Speaker 1: and I remember one Olympic board member saying, you're not

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Speaker 1: ready for the Paralympics yet, and it kind of stuck

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Speaker 1: in our head, and you know, what do you mean

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Speaker 1: we're not ready. Well, as we looked into Paralympics and

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Speaker 1: and the athletes with disabilities, we didn't have national championships,

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Speaker 1: we didn't have rating systems, we didn't understand how to

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Speaker 1: handle the different disabilities, and they were right, we weren't

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Speaker 1: ready yet. And so by us putting on a national championship,

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Speaker 1: and by the way this has already happened, there will

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Speaker 1: be at least four more significant national championships or or

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Speaker 1: country championships. Three almost all of our state organizations are

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Speaker 1: now trying to figure out how they run state disabled championships.

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Speaker 1: So I really believe that our national championship, more than

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Speaker 1: anything else, as a flag in the ground to say

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Speaker 1: to everybody else you can do this and um, and

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Speaker 1: when we all start doing this, I think golf in

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Speaker 1: the Gulf and the Paralympic is a given long term.

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Speaker 1: So my class question before we lose you here, Sony

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Speaker 1: opens coming up. You know at the beginning of the season,

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Speaker 1: Rory opens at number one in the world. John rom

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Speaker 1: just won his third in the last six starts at

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Speaker 1: the tournament the Champions in Hawaii. Who should we be

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Speaker 1: looking out for in the season? Which players come to

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Speaker 1: mind for you. I mean, who's moving up the charts here.

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Speaker 1: It's always great to ask me, like being a pick

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Speaker 1: players because then I week or two. Um, but I

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Speaker 1: would I would say for me personally, I was. I

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Speaker 1: was surprised we didn't see Will's Alaturus breakthrough it a

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Speaker 1: major last year, even though he just you know, was

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Speaker 1: right at the top of each one. I think Will's

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Speaker 1: Alt Tours is probably the next big the next big name,

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Speaker 1: if I had to guess. There's also some pretty impressive

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Speaker 1: rookies and kids actually kind of coming right out of

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Speaker 1: school that might rock it there sooner than later. But um,

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Speaker 1: when I was at the US Open, um, I saw

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Speaker 1: Will on the green I've seen him the week before,

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Speaker 1: and he said, um, out next week in the US

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Speaker 1: Open is gonna be a real challenge, Like I really

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Speaker 1: want to be challenged. And players almost never say to us,

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Speaker 1: I hope the US Open as real challenge because it

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Speaker 1: always is. It is a mental and physical challenge. And

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Speaker 1: I remember walking away thinking that's pretty cool. I mean

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Speaker 1: a player actually saying push me and um. So I

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Speaker 1: saw him on Wednesday when we were at the country

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Speaker 1: club in Boston and I said, well, you asked, what

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Speaker 1: do you think this is a nice Please? No more

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Speaker 1: than this. That mentality tends to lead to two wins

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Speaker 1: and trophies, so wouldn't shock me to see more of

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Speaker 1: those this year. I got to mention something about equipment,

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Speaker 1: and it's a story. This is. You know, we're around

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Speaker 1: the same age, Mike and I remember my mom. She

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Speaker 1: had a wooden set of golf clubs and I made it.

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Speaker 1: It was it was made of real wood. And I decided, hey, Mom,

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Speaker 1: let me see that golf club. And she says, okay,

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Speaker 1: be careful with it. And I was going to drive

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Speaker 1: a ball with her little golf club and broke it,

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Speaker 1: and then she broke something else. But that's that's something altogether.

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Speaker 1: My My point is is that about equipment, about how

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Speaker 1: it's changed today. Players still the same, but equipment has changed. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I'm not even sure I would say players are still

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Speaker 1: the same in any other way than the what's going

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Speaker 1: on at a training level at the young age, helping kids.

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Speaker 1: You know, great speed, I don't mean just speed, a

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Speaker 1: speed on a running track to create club edge speed

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Speaker 1: and ball speed. It's um I said this many times.

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Speaker 1: Equipment has changed. We're lucky We're lucky in golf. I

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Speaker 1: mean not many sports have hundreds of millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: of R and D every year piled into the and

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Speaker 1: I'm not really sure that much money has been spent

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Speaker 1: on tennis ball or a football. They're kind of what

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Speaker 1: they've been in by to what they will be. But

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Speaker 1: in golf, there's literally hundreds of millions of dollars spent

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Speaker 1: in R and D to just get a little bit

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Speaker 1: of advantage so next year the game is a little easier,

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Speaker 1: you're a little better, and and that investment is great

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Speaker 1: for the games, for the sports creates excitement every Christmas

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Speaker 1: when you walk down and see a box that just

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Speaker 1: might look like a golf club. So it's that's good.

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Speaker 1: But I would say that the athletes have changed to

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean the stretching nutrition, you know. I

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Speaker 1: mean if if you walked into a tour van, you know,

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Speaker 1: this week at the Sony and watch what was going

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Speaker 1: on pre round and compare that to what was going

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Speaker 1: on thirty years ago pre round, I think you'd be

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Speaker 1: amazed at the difference. John Daily Advertising right there, name

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Speaker 1: for you. That was my last question. I lied, I

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Speaker 1: got it about sustainability of the game because the science

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Speaker 1: and innovation man that that is really fuel in the game. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's that's our role, together with your name,

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Speaker 1: and our job is not to think about the game

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Speaker 1: three days from now, three weeks from the hour, thirty

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Speaker 1: days now. There's people that do that every day and

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Speaker 1: they run tours and championships, and our job is really

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Speaker 1: to make sure that the game is as strong thirty

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Speaker 1: years from now as it is now. One of the

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Speaker 1: one of the things we have to do is make

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Speaker 1: sure that we don't allow athleticism and equipment changes to

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Speaker 1: essentially hand that paid to hand that that debt to

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Speaker 1: people that own golf courses. I mean, very few sports

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Speaker 1: have said to their venues, you have to keep up

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Speaker 1: with us. Big build bigger, you know, baseball stadiums built

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Speaker 1: bigger football stadiums. I mean, then I have more fans,

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Speaker 1: but essentially it's still a hundred yards. And so through

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Speaker 1: what we've been we've been monitoring and essentially putting limits

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Speaker 1: on equipment for for eighty years and we'll continue for

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Speaker 1: the next eight years. We want there to be advancement,

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Speaker 1: we want there to be excitement. We want to make

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Speaker 1: the game easier for those that are just starting to

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Speaker 1: join the game. And at the same time, we have

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Speaker 1: to make sure we don't wake up with the game

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Speaker 1: third years from now that didn't care and there's really

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Speaker 1: no place to play it, or it's too expensive to

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Speaker 1: build one near a city or um. You know, old

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Speaker 1: golf course is essentially obsoleted. So it's a fine line.

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Speaker 1: It's not you know, it's it's it's it's not a

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Speaker 1: perfect science. It's more of an art. But I'm sure

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Speaker 1: if you talked to manufacturers, they'd say, those darn us people.

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Speaker 1: Even if you talk to some golf courses, they probably

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Speaker 1: those darn usc and people aren't aren't putting enough restriction in.

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Speaker 1: There's there's never a you know, it's never a perfect medium.

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Speaker 1: But that's our job is to make sure thirty years

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Speaker 1: from now, what we're talking about today, all this excitement

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Speaker 1: has translated into even more people loving the game. By

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Speaker 1: the way, if you're in Liberty Corner, New Jersey, folks,

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Speaker 1: check out the U. S. G. A Campus, because that's

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Speaker 1: where the U. S. G A Golf Museum is also located.

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Speaker 1: And if you want to see some golf artifacts, like

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Speaker 1: that golf ball that Fred flint Stone played with. Go

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Speaker 1: and check it out there and you will be amazed

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Speaker 1: at some of the stuff that you will see and

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Speaker 1: how the equipment has evolved. Mike Juan, Chief Executive Officer

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Speaker 1: of the U s G A thank you, sir for

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Speaker 1: joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Thank you

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Speaker 1: guys and Scarlett don't wait to get started. We're ready

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Speaker 1: for you. This has been the Bloomberg Business of Sports

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Speaker 1: when we explore some of the big money issues in

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Speaker 1: the world of sports on Michael bar along with Scarlett

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Speaker 1: Fu and Damien Sassaur. And by the way, you can

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Speaker 1: catch our show downloaded wherever you get the podcast, because

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Speaker 1: the podcast happened every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday. This has

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Speaker 1: been the Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio.