1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Fear grips the city of 2 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Miami as rumors circulate that a serial killer is stalking 3 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: its residence. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank 4 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation in 5 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: serious X one eleven. First of all, take a listen 6 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: to our friends at NBC six. Two men shot two 7 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: hours apart at two different locations, both victims homeless. The 8 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: first shot around eight pm near ninety five and Southwest 9 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: Second Avenue. He is still in the hospital. That individual 10 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: is an extreme critical condition and is being treated at 11 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: Jackson Memorial Hospital and Trauma. The second victim shot just 12 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: before ten near North Miami av And twenty first Street. 13 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: Please say they got video. A black vehicle had driven 14 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: up to the location where the victim was laying down 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: on the ground and shot had him several times. Police 16 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: also believe is responsible for deadly stabbing of a homeless 17 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: person in October near Edgewater. This is a witness from 18 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: that day whose car was held up in the crime scene. 19 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: But it told me I happened a vehicle because it 20 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: had blood splatter and it had to be fingerprint because 21 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: there was a fight. There was some type of struggle, 22 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: and they thought that the car had their hot fingerprints. 23 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: Now they think it's possible other homeless people may have suffered. 24 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: Who would drive up and a fancy black car. It'd 25 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: take pot shots at homeless people, killing them, just shooting 26 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: them dead, like they're playing one of those games at 27 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: a carnival where you shoot and shoot and shooting. Didn't 28 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: you get the big fluffy animals and prize the city 29 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: of Miami in shock as one after the next person 30 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: is killed. And as you heard our friend Jamie Grula 31 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: speaking from NBC, one of the victims was actually lying 32 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: down asleep on the ground with me in All Star 33 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: panel to make sense of what we know so far. 34 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: James shell Nutt twenty seven years metro major case now 35 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: lawyer with the shell Nutt Law Firm. Dot Com. Doctor 36 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist, author of Criminal Behavior and Where 37 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: Law and Psychology Intersect. Chris Buyers, former police chief John's Creek, 38 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 1: twenty five years on the force, Private investigator and polygrapher 39 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: at Chris Buyers Investigations and Polygraph dot com. Doctor Tim Gallagher, 40 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: medical examiner for the entire State off Florida at Pathcremed 41 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: dot Com, esteemed lecturer at University of Florida Medical School 42 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: and founder and host of the International Forensic Medicine Death 43 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: Investigation Conference. But first, I want to go out to 44 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: a special guest joining us, David Vaya joining us from 45 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: the Miami Harold. David, I can only imagine, but all 46 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: the residents of Miami thought, when they wake up in 47 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 1: the morning and look on their iPad or read their paper, 48 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: that yet another person has been shot. Tell me about 49 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: when you first learn that somebody, typically in a black vehicle, 50 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: would just drive up and shoot down a homeless person dead. Well, 51 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: you know, the funny thing was is it was sort 52 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: of a dead period of news that you know, it's 53 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: right towards the end of the year, around Christmas time, 54 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: and so it kind of went on the radar a 55 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: little bit. Um. You know, It's one of those kind 56 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: of curiosity type of things like, oh, there's someone's been 57 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: shot and Winwood. Winwood is like a very tirsty type 58 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:48,839 Speaker 1: of area that's uh, you know, wait wait a minute, wait, wait, 59 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: wait wait wait. You know David A. Vaya with Miami 60 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: Harold just brought up a really good point that these 61 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: shootings were in a very ass, he said, touristy. He's right. 62 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of money floating around Miami. 63 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: David Vay eight because every time I look at the 64 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: Daily Mail at page six, somebody's having a multimillion dollar 65 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: house being bought or sold. You have all those stars 66 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: moving down, their celebrities, they're always throwing all the bashes 67 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: that you see the Kardashians at I mean, what is 68 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: the draw of all these rich celebs to Miami. David Well, 69 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: I think it's it's the the the image of the 70 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: Miami lifestyle, right, you have the you mean dealers, No, 71 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: he's all right, that's that's too. That is, of course 72 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: always one of the major draws here. But I think 73 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: you have you know, the celebrity scene, the arts scene, 74 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: the party scene, which is of course it's a huge 75 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: major draw. Um. And of course the weather right right 76 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,119 Speaker 1: now it's you know, eighty five degrees out in the 77 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,039 Speaker 1: middle of January. So um. I think it's just a 78 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: little bit of a little bit of everything that's captured, 79 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: you know, the the imaginations of people from all over 80 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: the world for many years, and so you get here 81 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: and then you have someone going along taking pot shots 82 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: at people on the street. It certainly was a disconcerting 83 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: story in the beginning. You know, David, I got a 84 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: quick saying pot shots. I said it first because this 85 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: is a murder. When you stay taking a pot shot, 86 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: it's kind of airbrushing what's really happening, shooting innocent people 87 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: that are standing there or lying there dead from your 88 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: car where you have all the power, you have all 89 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: the control, like a sniper. Hey, David, of everybody joining me. 90 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: From one of my favorite publications, the Miami Herald, David, 91 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 1: where is Fisher Island as it relates to Miami? For sure? 92 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: Island is a really wealthy enclave island just off the 93 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: tip of South Beach. So it's really like you have 94 00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: to have a ferry. You have to take the ferry 95 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: to get there. Only the richest of the rich live 96 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: in in Fisher Island. So when you're talking about South Beach, 97 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: you're talking about how far away is that from downtown 98 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: Miami or where these shootings are taking place. Well, these 99 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: shootings took place in the city of Miami. See the 100 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: city of Miami, which is you know, the sort of 101 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: iconic um you know, uh, skyscrapers and financial buildings and condos. 102 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: So that's the sort of like I guess what we 103 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: call the mainland, and you have to go across the 104 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: causeway um to the sort of barrier islands, and that's 105 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: where you have Miami Beach, which is a separate um city, 106 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: a separate municipality, and that's where you have the really 107 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: iconic ocean drive with the art deco buildings and the 108 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,239 Speaker 1: party scene and you know, sort of the the nightclub 109 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: scene that we've seen depicted in movies and TV shows. 110 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: So um City of Miami distinct distinct area. But also 111 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: when you think of like little Havana, little Haiti some 112 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, of course, the downtown financial district and banking 113 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: district and all of that, all of that is City 114 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: of Miami. I love Little haveai Anna there. Do you 115 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: remember the program Dexter. I never actually watched it, although 116 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: I have friends that worked on it as police department, 117 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: you know, advisers. Wasn't that said in Miami? It was? 118 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,119 Speaker 1: It was said in Miami. It was with the Miami 119 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: did Police Worthy. I believe that is one of the 120 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: shows that got me through my pregnancy, along with Mystery Woman. 121 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: I bened on Dexter to get through my very perilous pregnancy. 122 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: So there you go, David. So I'm trying to get 123 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: Wait now, wait a minute, isn't Miami where Scott Dissac's 124 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: always hanging out with another team girl. There's always there's 125 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: always a celebrity hanging out with a teen girl or 126 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: a entourage somewhere. Now, let me clarify, I don't mean 127 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: Tina is in younger than sixteen. I mean tinas in 128 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: like nineteen, because I'm imagining Scott Dissoc sprawled out on 129 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: a lan's share with his new girlfriend, whoever she may be, 130 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: and then not too far away, this guy gunning down 131 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: innocent victims. I mean the dichotomy. Let me throw that 132 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: to you, datter. Sherry Schwartz forensic psychologists joining us data, Sherry, 133 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: the dichotomy of all that money and all that natural 134 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: beauty juxtaposed against someone who apparently with no real motives 135 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: such as revenge or anger or double dealing or bar fight. 136 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: It's just gunning down innocent people to whom they have 137 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: no connection. And then you know, a mile over, you've 138 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: got all of this opulence and all of this beauty. 139 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: That's kind of a mind twist, right, very much so, Nancy, 140 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,719 Speaker 1: And as you know, I'm in Miami Beach, so I'm 141 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 1: a Miami resident. And what you described is the landscape 142 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: of Miami perfectly, the wealthy, of the most wealthy of 143 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: the wealthy, the opulence, the glamour, this idea that it's paradise, 144 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: and it is in some ways the beautiful, very gritty underbelly. Right. 145 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: And the thing is with serial killers, the motivation is 146 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 1: always psychological gratification of some sort. Okay, doctor Sherry hauled on, 147 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: hit the brakes, slow down for me because you and 148 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: Gallagher you get going so fast I can't take it 149 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: all in. Now, what did you just say about motivation? 150 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: And look, first of all, let me just say I 151 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: don't care. I had to learn that the hard way. 152 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: I spent about the first seven years, five to seven 153 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: years as a prosecutor, and when the jury wasn't in 154 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: the room, I'd look over the defendant and think, why 155 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: would he she do this? Why would they do this? 156 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: And then after spending a lot of time and an 157 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: ordinate amount of time trying to figure out why, it 158 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: just hit me one day in court, why ask why 159 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: I've got to prove jurisdiction and who did it? That's 160 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: what I've got to do. That is my duty. But 161 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: out of just curiosity, occasionally I do wonder why in 162 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: the world. So what were you saying about motive? Why 163 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: serial killers do what they do, Doctor Sherry Schwartz. At 164 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: the base of it, it's all about psychological gratification. That's 165 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: the motivation. And that's the most terrifying thing because it 166 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: could be the average person next to you at the supermarket, 167 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: you know, in line, things like that. But it's all 168 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: about they have something going on psychologically that murder is 169 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: the way to satisfy that that needs. Crime stories with 170 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, James Shell not twenty seven years Metro major case. 171 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: Did you hear what Dave Avay said report with the 172 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: Miami Herald that this was in a touristy area. It's 173 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: like opening fire at Disney, for Pete's sake, that's where 174 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: all the tourists are. Why are you laughing? I take 175 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: my children to Disney all the time, every time we 176 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: can afford it. Have you seen how much it costs 177 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: now ouch? But the fact that there are innocent tourists 178 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: around that are flooding into the city, pumping money into 179 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,719 Speaker 1: the economy, and this person, and you know it's a man, right, 180 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: I mean, how many female cereal snipers have ever gotten caught? Zero? 181 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: So go ahead with that. I can tell you right 182 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: now it's a man. But what about that shell? Not 183 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: the fact that this is going down in a tourist area. 184 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: You know, if you're not from that area, Okay, you 185 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: have to think this is not the prime selection point 186 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: if you don't want to get caught. But a lot 187 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: of times when people do this, they are doing it 188 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: in an area that they feel familiar with. The area 189 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: oftentimes is an anchor point for them. And an anchor 190 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: point can be an area that they live and they're 191 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: very familiar with it, where they work, where they've went 192 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: to school, but they have some connection with that area 193 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: that makes them comfortable enough to do this in this area. 194 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: That's a really good point and I always point out, 195 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: for instance, Scott Peterson, where did he dump his wife, 196 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: an unborn child, Lacy and Connor at a place there 197 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: was basically his fishing hole. If you look at crimes 198 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: and the disposal of bodies as a body of work, 199 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: you'll see that very often, if not a large majority, 200 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: of time killers function within an area they are familiar 201 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: Justice shell Nutt just said, and to you, Chris Buyer's 202 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: former police chief, John's Creek now at Chris Buyer's investigations 203 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: in polygraph, Chris, I've dealt with a lot of killers, 204 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: as have you. I mean literally thousands of killers. A 205 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: sniper as a whole another can of worms, that's a 206 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: whole different animal. Somebody that remains out of the fray. 207 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: It's not up close and personal killing like a stabbing 208 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: or a point blank shooting, or strangulation, be at ligature 209 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: or manual. This is somebody that sits back, as in 210 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: this case, as David Vaya is telling us, sits back 211 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: in his luxury black sedan and takes shots at innocent 212 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: people who don't see it coming, one actually lying there 213 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: asleep in the warm Miami temperature. What kind of a 214 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: mindset is that this is a special kind of evil 215 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: in your mind that it takes to do something like 216 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: this to just innocent people, and you're, you know, homeless 217 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: people who you know can't really defend themselves, and are 218 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: you know, some of the weakest in society and you're 219 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: picking on them, and it just takes a completely depraved 220 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: evil minds. In my observation, to do something like this, 221 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: you know, back to you, David Vaya joining US crime 222 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: reporter with the Miami Harold. You can find them at 223 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: Miami Herald dot com. David, very often with the homeless, 224 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: you know, I've worked with for many years, trying to 225 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: feed them and give them shelter. David, very often, at 226 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: a distance, you can't tell if you would be shooting 227 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: a man, a woman, or a teen because even in 228 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: warm weather, they very often aren't bundled up with layers 229 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: and layers of clothing and head coverings, sometimes gloves, even 230 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: in warm weather. So this guy doesn't know if he's 231 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: shooting a man, woman, or a teen. Right, That's correct. 232 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: And also what was also challenging was the first people 233 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: who responded to the scenes. They were unsure exactly what 234 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: had happened to these victims because they couldn't tell. They 235 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: could just see some sort of trauma. They didn't know 236 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: the backstory because they were so random and in public. 237 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: You know what's interesting, David, vant I just thought of 238 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: it the other day. I was working on any books, 239 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: some murder mystery, and my son and my daughter, believe 240 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: it or not, are always given me ideas. Now that 241 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: could be scary. But my son said, you know, what 242 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: would be a perfect thing for serial killer is to 243 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: shoot people that nobody would notice, or they don't have 244 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: their family they're talking to every day, like people inside 245 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: the road, like homeless people, and they could sit out 246 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: there forever and no one would even know that they 247 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: had been shot. And that is exactly what you're telling me, David, 248 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: explain that to me one more time, please, Well, in 249 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: this case, they believed the victims had no ties to 250 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: the suspects, so that they were just being sort of 251 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: shot indiscriminately. I mean, it wasn't as if there was 252 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: anything that provoked the attacks. So yeah, they believe it 253 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: would absolutely you know, random and not with any rhymem 254 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: of reason that we could do. Guys, take a listen 255 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: to our friend Joel Waldman at CBS Miami. These murders, 256 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: according to police, happened within two hours on Tuesday night. 257 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: The first was on the four hundred block of Southwest 258 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: Second Avenue. The victim there survived. Police say, he is 259 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: in horrible shape. He's a Jackson memorial and there is 260 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: a good chance you will not make it. And then 261 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: about two hours after that person was shot, police say 262 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: another gentleman was shot in the Windwood area. It turns 263 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: out of that both victims in this case were homeless, 264 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: and police say that in at least one of the instances, 265 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: the shooter fired the weapon from the car without even 266 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: getting out. Now police are also I'm the shooter in 267 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: another homicide back on October sixteenth. This was the stabbing 268 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: of a homeless person. They would not get into details, 269 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: but say that an investigator working on that case notice 270 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: something that connected Tuesday nights murder, murder and attempted murder 271 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: to this stabbing back in October October sixteenth. Okay, right there, 272 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: to doctor Tim Gallagher, a medical examiner for the entire 273 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: state of Florida, this is in your backyard, Gallagher. Now, 274 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: that could throw a lot of people for a loop 275 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 1: right there, because many people do not expect a serial 276 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: killer to change their m O or to stray from 277 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: their typical modus operandi method of operation. But that is 278 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: not true. It has been proven over and over again. 279 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: I mean, look at Ted Bundy. Some people he would strangle, 280 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: some people he would bludgeon. Yes, a lot of his 281 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: victims looked very similar, but there were different mos and 282 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: his method deteriorated over time. So the fact that we've 283 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: got a couple of people shot and then one stabbed, 284 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: potentially connected to the same serial killer, that does not 285 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: phase me at all. I want you to tell us 286 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: what these people would have endured, doctor Tim Gallagher. The 287 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: shooting and then sitting out in the open and nobody 288 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: really understanding what's happened to you. You're bleeding out and 289 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: nobody around you knows what's happened to you. Well, you know, 290 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: Miami has a very special spot of my heart. Actually, 291 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: I did my training in Miami, lived there for many 292 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: years up and quite familiar with the surrounding areas and 293 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: the dichotomy of rich versus not so rich there. But 294 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: after being shot and struck in a couple of major organs, 295 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: for instance the lungs or the heart, the victim will 296 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: pass out probably within fifteen to thirty seconds and then 297 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: expire certainly within three minutes. So they're suffering. How I'm 298 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: trying to figure out how long they would suffer before 299 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: they passed away, doctor Gallagher. How typically, you know, we 300 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: find that thirty seconds. After about thirty seconds or so, 301 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: they will lose consciousness and then theoretically I guess suffering 302 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: would end at about that time, but it's a very 303 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: painful moment up until they lose the point of consciousness. 304 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: You know, I've heard a lot of people. I've heard 305 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people that have been shot said I 306 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,719 Speaker 1: didn't even feel it. How is that possible? But depends 307 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: upon what they're doing at the time. If they have 308 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: a lot of adrenaline running through their body, that tends 309 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: to mask pain until they eventually relax a little bit 310 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: and then the nerve sensation begins to start again. So 311 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: it just depends on what they're doing at the time 312 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: they were shot. If they're very active, the adrenaline is 313 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 1: coursing through their body, that chemical in their body will 314 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: dull the pain or stop the nervous impulse of pain, 315 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: so they can escape or fight that fight or flight syndrome, 316 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: so they could escape or fight other way out of 317 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:18,239 Speaker 1: a situation. Time stories with Nancy Grace, Doctor Gallagher. As 318 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: I was asking you earlier, again, this is in your 319 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: backyard regarding a serial killer changing ms. Have you ever 320 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: seen that before? You know, I have not, but I 321 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: do tell you there are so many programs on TV 322 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: now that show how these serial killers are caught using 323 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: the same MO over and over again. So a learned 324 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: serial killer might take a note of this and then 325 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: change with MS. But typically, no, you don't see that 326 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: at all, especially shooting versus stabbing. You that's to step someone, 327 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: you really have to be close to them. It's very personal. 328 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,959 Speaker 1: Whereas shooting, you know you had that distance. It's very impersonal. 329 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: And what about that shell nutt a serial killer changing MS? Yeah, 330 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: you know a lot of times, you know, and I agree. 331 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: I have not worked a case where a serial killer 332 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: changed anybody, but I will tell you that a lot 333 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: of times on that first killing. The serial killers are 334 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: often intelligent people. They look and see and evaluate what 335 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: went wrong. And if, for instance, in a stabbing, you know, 336 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: they cut themselves and they thought, hey, I'm leaving evidence 337 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: at the scene, my own blood, my own DNA at 338 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: the scene, They're intelligent enough to switch to another method 339 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: to avoid detection and avoid leaving that evidence. And to you, 340 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: Chris Buyers, former police chief John's Creek, we ever seen 341 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: a serial killer changemos? Because I have, But typically I 342 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: would say they don't. Yeah, No, I would have to say, 343 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: typically they don't. I've never seen it totally agree with 344 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: what Shelma is saying that they're intelligent and could make 345 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: you know changes for what they're doing. But no, I 346 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: have never personally seen it. I mean, I mentioned Ted Bunny. 347 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: But then, of course, Israel Keys is one of the 348 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: worst serial killers there ever was. He strangled, he bludgeoned, 349 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: he shot. He would have murder kits stashed all around 350 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: the country, would always pick victims to whom he was 351 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: not connected in any way, and we still don't know 352 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: how many people Keys murdered. I first became involved with 353 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: Israel Keys with the murder of an Alaska and barista 354 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: named Samantha Koenig, who was kidnapped out of her coffee 355 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: stand and assaulted, raped, murdered. He actually posed her body, 356 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: stitching her eyelids open for a ransom note, but he 357 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: never used a ransom note. In any other case. He 358 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: would identify his prey. They could be in a home. 359 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: There was an elderly couple that he attacked kind of 360 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: in a remote their remote home in rural area. He 361 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: would hunt in RV camps and campgrounds. I mean, so 362 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: his mo along with Bundy's, very often change depending on 363 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: the circumstances surrounding the time when he felt the urge 364 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: to kill. Sometimes it was sex motivated. He wanted to 365 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: rape somebody, Sometimes he wanted money. Mostly is for I 366 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: believe the thrill of killing someone. Let me throw that 367 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: to you, doctor Sherry Schwartz, because that's more of a 368 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: mind twist where you have the same emo and then 369 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: you vary. There could be a number of things underlying that. Psychologically, 370 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: maybe the person is changing it up because they want 371 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: to escape detection from law enforcement. It could also be, 372 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 1: which is much darker and less satisfying, that the person 373 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: wants to try different methods of killing because again, in 374 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: that vein of psychological gratification and getting that gratification from 375 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: murdering people fall, maybe shooting isn't a satisfying to this person, 376 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: which is really scary. But one thing you gotta be 377 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: careful about as a criminal is your vehicle. Take a 378 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: listen to the Miami PD pressor. The investigation began, Officers 379 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: quickly connected the two incidents, not only because of the 380 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 1: short span of time between the two shootings, but because 381 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: both incidents involved victims that were homeless. As the investigation continued, 382 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: the members of our Criminal Investigations Unit, led by a 383 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: chief agular and major cook from our Criminal Investigation Division, 384 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: began scouring for not only physical evidence, but electronic evidence, 385 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: and we're able to discover a video of the shooting 386 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: of Miami Avenue. Were revealed that a black vehicle had 387 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: driven up to a location where the victim was laying 388 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: down on the ground and shot had him of all times. Subsequintly, 389 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: the investigation revealed the type of vehicle and the tag. 390 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: There you go. David Vay, a crime reporter with the 391 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 1: Miami Herald, why do criminals think they're so smart? Why? 392 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: I mean the killer is driving in the same vehicle 393 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: on two of the murders, a black vehicle, and at 394 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: every red light practically in Miami, you've got a light cam, 395 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: a red light cam. What was he thinking? It goes 396 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: beyond that. So this particular area, I think I told 397 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: you wind is called Winwood, and they actually have a 398 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: pretty sophisticated CCTV area because it's sort of a high tourist, 399 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: high traffic area. So I think you were able to 400 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: use cameras that are really good from from that system 401 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: to be able to get the tag. The one the 402 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: one thing that's been a challenge, I know, is. You know, 403 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: it's his car, it's his weapon, but the cameras aren't 404 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: quite good enough to put him as the actual shooter. 405 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: So as of right now, it's a circumstantial case. But 406 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: they really believe that he is the person behind Well, 407 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: I mean, there's somebody gunning people down in the Purps 408 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: car with potentially the Perps weapon. But who would ever 409 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: have suspected the Miami serial killer is a successful realtor, 410 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: a young guy that not me, but many people believe 411 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: is very handsome. And I'm talking about will Willie Messiah 412 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: hold on, let it sink in. A Miami real estate 413 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: agent now suspected of being the Miami serial killer Bobshell. 414 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: So I don't get it. David Avaya joining me Crime 415 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: reporter with a Miami Harold. Why would a successful realtor 416 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: want to go around down and gun down innocent homeless people, Nancy, 417 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: That's the million dollar question. Uh. Willie is not someone 418 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: that had any real previous interactions with the law other 419 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: than a couple of traffic tickets. He wasn't had never 420 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: been arrested. He lived in a pretty suburban, nondescript part 421 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: of Miami. If you look at his Instagram accounts and 422 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: his online profiles, and he's sort of almost you know, 423 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: just sort of a typical Miami young man, right, dabbling 424 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: in real estate and trying to do get involved in cryptocurrency, 425 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 1: and you know, it just sort of all the buzzwords 426 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two. Yeah, it's a 427 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: complete mystery, and it's one that we as at the 428 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: Miami here we're still trying to understand. Okay, you just 429 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: said buzzwords? Are you talking about cryptocurrency? Is that the 430 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: buzzword cryptocurrency? Real estate, all the you know, all the 431 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: very Miami stuff of our current times. You know, it's 432 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: just really hard for me to take in what you're saying. Uh, David, 433 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: if I and I know everything you're saying is correct, 434 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: take a listen now to our friends at CBS Miami. 435 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: This is our cut five. On his Facebook page, it 436 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: shows a man that was interested in real estate he 437 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: reportedly worked as a real estate agent for Century twenty one, 438 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: also interested in fast cars, in cryptocurrency, and to that, 439 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,719 Speaker 1: both the Mayor and the chief says, you can never 440 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: judge a book by its cover. Police officers are trained 441 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: to go after the actions, not the person. Not the 442 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: way they look, but the way that they behave on 443 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: the actions they take. I have been in law enforcement 444 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: for twenty eight years with the City of Miami, and 445 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: I can tell you I have seen criminals that fit 446 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: every type and every looker. It surprises me anytime someone 447 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: commits a crime of this kind, I'm surprised. If it's 448 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: someone who doesn't have a criminal history, or someone who 449 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: you know, it would be harder to explain. That makes 450 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: it all the more shocking. Police also say that they 451 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: recovered a car and a firearm that they believe was 452 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: used in the commission of these two crimes on Tuesday evening. Meanwhile, 453 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: it turns out that Suarez Masseo is from Southwest Miami 454 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: Dade and he attended Miami Sunset Senior High Again, just 455 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: twenty five years old. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace take 456 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,479 Speaker 1: listen to er cut eight. This is Janeine Stanwood w PLG. 457 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: This twenty five year old suspect got his real estate license, 458 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: according to records, in twenty eighteen and had no prior 459 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: criminal history, at least not that we could find. At 460 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: last check, he was still here at the Miami Police 461 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: Department being investigated homeless individuals for up bearing no reason 462 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: have been brutally targeted, police announcing they have this man 463 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: in custody, twenty five year old Willie Suarez Masseo, a 464 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: licensed South Florida real estate agent who boasts expertise and 465 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: the stock market, but who detectives are now calling a 466 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: serial killer whose victims are all homeless. On the eve 467 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: of Christmas. We have a very dangerous person off of 468 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: the streets. Now, you know, I don't get it. David 469 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: Evayer with me, crime reporter with the Miami Herald. This 470 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: is a really dapper guy. Some would say good looking, 471 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: not to me because I know he's a serial killer, 472 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: but some would claim he is very, very handsome, and 473 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: he's always decked out in slick looking suits. And he's 474 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: pictured online on a social media sitting on top of 475 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: speedy sports cars bragging about cryptocurrency and his knowledge of 476 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: the stock market. How in the hey does that fit 477 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: in with driving along and you're black sedan shooting at 478 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: innocent homeless people, some of them asleep, killing them. He 479 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: shot one guy in the head for Pete's sake. He 480 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: really is a jarring, contract asked, and given that he 481 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: had never been arrested before he had a valid concealed 482 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: weapons permit. I mean, he was legally allowed to have 483 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: the gun. And also he suspected of a stabbing, which 484 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: is a very intimate, brutal crime that is accused of. 485 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: He's believed to have done that a few months prior. 486 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: So the whole thing is very, very jarring, and we 487 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: have yet to learn exactly what was going through his head. 488 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: But I'm sure that's going to play out as the 489 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: process proceeds in court. David A somebody has got to 490 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: be speculating about what his motive was. What is the 491 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: working theory. I mean, my gut, my gut would tell me, 492 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, there's something uh, you know, screw loose in 493 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: the guy's head. But you know that's always a fine line, 494 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: right Because I'm so happy you said that, because now 495 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: finally you said something I disagree with. A screw loose. Okay, 496 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: let me torment David Valla for just one moment. David 497 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: vall a very renowned in his field crime reporter with 498 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: Miami Herald A screw loose. Now, the legal definition of 499 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: insanity is not knowing right from wrong at the time 500 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: of the incident, and the fact that he would pull 501 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: up and this black car remain virtually hidden, as you 502 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: pointed out earlier, shoot an innocent victim dead and in speedaway. 503 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: Suggest to me he knew what he was doing was wrong, 504 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: David Avaller. I mean it could be argued, David, that 505 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: everybody on this panel, including me, as a screw loose, 506 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: all right, but that does not in his sanity defense 507 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: make would you agree? Correct? And oh darn, I was 508 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: hoping you disagree with me. I guess I kind of 509 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: showed up for that. Well here's the thing, right, So 510 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: so yes, right, you you you to be legally insane. 511 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: You have to know you have to they have to 512 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: be able to prove that you didn't know right from wrong. 513 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: But in this case, not only did he did he 514 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: flee the scene, did he? But also when he's eventually 515 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: picked up by the City of Miami Police Department and 516 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: they want to talk to him about what happens, he 517 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: immediately asked for a lawyer. Right, So you think someone 518 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: someone that didn't know right fromm wouldn't really have the 519 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: capacity to do that. So that's I don't think that's 520 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: going to be able to fly to the defense. The 521 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: best defense they have right now is there's no witnesses. 522 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: You know, it's just really hard for me to take 523 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: in what you're saying, David Avaya, and I know everything 524 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: you're saying is correct. Take a listen now to our 525 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: friends at CBS Miami. This is our cut five. Mister 526 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: Masseo is never seen carrying out the shooting, but in 527 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: court the public defender arguing that just because Masseo owned 528 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: the gun and the car used in the shootings doesn't 529 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: mean he's the one who did the crime. No it 530 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: answered at Masso's home in the Kendale Lakes area. No 531 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: one was at his real estate office off Killian Parkway. 532 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: If he's guilty of these crimes, and they can prove 533 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable that he has a very very peculiar 534 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: pattern of fighting unprotected individuals in the streets that are 535 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: not even a weak and going up to them, and 536 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,320 Speaker 1: it appears to be an execution style for reasons that 537 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: are unknown, so he was denied bond. Again, he faced 538 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: a charge of attempted first degree murder. Those other fatal 539 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,800 Speaker 1: incidents are still under investigation. Police say charges could be pending. 540 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,800 Speaker 1: Of course, there is another stabbing that we believe is 541 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,879 Speaker 1: going to be connected to will Masseo. Also, are there 542 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: other homeless people that have been killed in the past 543 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: homicides that have yet remained unsolved. So, David Avaya with 544 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: the Miami Herald, you accurately pointed out, as the defense 545 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: echoed your thoughts, that while cameras caught his vehicle, they 546 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: didn't catch a shot of him. So at any point 547 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: David Vayer, was his car reported stolen? No, as far 548 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: as we know, there's been no evidence that his car 549 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: was ever reported stolen. I assume, and the defense lawyer 550 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: in that hearing pointed out that there could have been 551 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: other people that he allowed access to to have to 552 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: his car, to his gun. Right. Um. The interesting thing 553 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,800 Speaker 1: so no eye witnesses so far, but in the October murder, 554 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 1: they actually have stunningly clear video of the person they 555 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: believe committed the homicide, and it like it's totally him. 556 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,720 Speaker 1: It completely looks like him. But you know, in that case, 557 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: again they need more witnesses, They need more to be 558 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: able to prove that the person in that video is him. 559 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of moving parts. I imagine if 560 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 1: I was a good investigator, they would be pulling cell 561 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: phone records to see if they could try and exact 562 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 1: position and put him near the scene, put his cell 563 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: phone and the vehicle at the time of the shootings, 564 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: and you pointed out was first they say, oh, there's 565 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: not a witness, and they say, sir, we've got a witness. 566 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 1: And then you say, well they couldn't see it was 567 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,439 Speaker 1: at night. You don't have video. Well, now we have video, 568 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: and that's when the defense attorney has to step back 569 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: and punt and say something like are you going to 570 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: believe that or your lying eyes? So bottom line, what 571 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: I'm really curious about David Avaya is if they will 572 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 1: connect him to other deaths, other homicides of homeless people 573 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: or others in the Miami area that have remained unsolved. 574 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: Do you know if there is an ongoing investigation in 575 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: that regard? There is absolutely in the City of Miami 576 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: police chief actually implored fellow law enforcement to come forward 577 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 1: with any cases that could be connected. Remember, it doesn't 578 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: necessarily even have to be a homicide or an attempted 579 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,879 Speaker 1: I mean, it could just be an attack in which 580 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 1: someone survived or wasn't seriously injured. So I'm sure they're 581 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: getting a lot of tips. Of course, They've kept a 582 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: lot of that stuff under wraps because of the sensitive 583 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: nature of the investigation. But yes, they you know, these 584 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: things don't happen in a vacuum, and so there was 585 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: a couple of months period between the October homicide and 586 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: the shootings that ended in his arrest, So they want 587 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:10,879 Speaker 1: to know what he was doing in between that time 588 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 1: and before that. I mean, very curious to discover whether 589 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: his murders extended beyond innocent homeless people whose names we 590 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: have not mentioned. Manuel Pettis, Jerome Antonio Price, one unidentified 591 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: male who survived. Very often we see just his name 592 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: and not the names of the homeless, as if they 593 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,839 Speaker 1: don't have names or families somewhere. What were you saying, David, Yeah, 594 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: I think that's that's a good point. And yeah, I 595 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: mean we you know, these other people are lived in 596 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: on the fringes of society and are marginalized, and it 597 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: would be wise to definitely memorialize them, because you're right, 598 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: a lot of times the killer, just the killer, gets 599 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: the attention, which is all the more reason that they 600 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:08,359 Speaker 1: need our protection, the most vulnerable in our society. Yeah, 601 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: go aheady, yeah, quick question. You know, is there a 602 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: connection between and he's killing home those people, but he's 603 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: a real estate agent that sells homes to people. You know, 604 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: is there a connection there in any way as psychological 605 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: the connection there and just seems ironic to me. Can 606 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: you mind to make a connection on that. You know 607 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,879 Speaker 1: that the common thread is whether they're a sial killer, teacher, 608 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: or anything else. They've got an antisocial personality and something else. 609 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: You know that. You know, the average age of a 610 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: serial killer is twenty seven and a half years old. 611 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: This guy is twenty five. So if this guy is 612 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: a serial killer, he's on the front end of his career. 613 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: And by the police department catching this guy, they may 614 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: have saved it. Summer Wise, we wait as justice unfoals. 615 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,479 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace comes story, signing off goodbye friend.