Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories done Dune.
Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara Klank and I'm Lisa Traeger.
Speaker 1: And every week we talk about an episode of SVU,
Speaker 1: the true crime it's based on, and then we interview
Speaker 1: an amazing person from the episode.
Speaker 3: And today is amazing. I feel like Tricksy and Katya.
Speaker 2: Every time I get to say the same thing every episode.
Speaker 2: It feels special. It feels on our show and not yours. Yes, Mitch, Okay,
Speaker 2: I have Wild News. So you know I'm a huge
Speaker 2: BoJack Horseman watcher. I watch it before bed constantly. I've
Speaker 2: seen it dozens and dozens of times. It's one of
Speaker 2: my favorite shows. Raoul Esperanza is a voice on that show.
Speaker 2: And I had no fucking idea. Raoul Asparsa, Yeah, shut up, Oh.
Speaker 3: God, they're gonna come for me. I've been calling Barbara.
Speaker 3: They're so mad. No, I love it well, Esperanza.
Speaker 1: I think Esperansa means Hope, so it's exciting that that's
Speaker 1: a good last name for him to wait, So who
Speaker 1: is he on the show.
Speaker 2: He's the little mouse that dates Princess Caroline, Amy Sedaris's
Speaker 2: cat agent manager cat. And he's a Stilton, so he's
Speaker 2: like the heir to the He's like a Hilton, so
Speaker 2: he's super rich and he's a mouse and they love
Speaker 2: each other and then his family comes from money.
Speaker 3: Obviously they're like the Hilton's. He's like a.
Speaker 2: Great romantic partner and Princess Caroline is just not fully
Speaker 2: ready for that kind of love.
Speaker 3: But he is like a cutie little mouse.
Speaker 1: And I was looking up someone else because I was like,
Speaker 1: whose voice is this? And it was Dave Franco And
Speaker 1: then I saw fucking Barbara and you were believe it
Speaker 1: Raoul Esperanza aka Barbara.
Speaker 3: But I got I got really excited.
Speaker 1: That sounds like a cute little tattoo, A cute little
Speaker 1: rich mouse voiced by Raoul Asparsa.
Speaker 2: No if I got a BoJack tattoo, I have like
Speaker 2: a billion things before. Unfortunately, it is one of my
Speaker 2: favorite shows. I do have an original artwork from Lisa Handwall,
Speaker 2: who is the head drawer and designer of that show.
Speaker 2: And when I messaged her to my private art, I
Speaker 2: was like, I want this BoJack this that she goes,
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: Sell BoJack art. Relax, you can buy this slutty horse.
Speaker 1: And I bought the slutty Horse. But yeah, I bet
Speaker 1: she's holding on tight. Yeah, well, she can't sell BoJack
Speaker 1: art right because it's like it's like it's licensed. And
Speaker 1: this leads me into another thing where like people are
Speaker 1: always like writing us being like you guys need to
Speaker 1: like put do the sex crime shirt or do like
Speaker 1: this or that, and it's like we can't do a
Speaker 1: lot of this shit because we don't want to get sued,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like we can't put Benson
Speaker 1: and Stabler like fucking on a T shirt. I know
Speaker 1: people want that, but like we can't. Speaking of Stabler
Speaker 1: and fucking I think you know where I'm going.
Speaker 3: Oh God, yes, hot, because I've gone on.
Speaker 2: A little anti Stabler train I would save for the
Speaker 2: past couple months. And that's over, Okay, that is over
Speaker 2: that Interview magazine photo shoot. He's sixty years old and
Speaker 2: he is the hottest person in the fucking planet.
Speaker 1: And I just love the color of that green tank
Speaker 1: top he's wearing. I just think that's like such a
Speaker 1: hot shirt and like I'm.
Speaker 3: Like I would wear it.
Speaker 1: But also I love you, like I it's all great,
Speaker 1: it's all really good. Look the apple biting the pizza.
Speaker 1: I mean it's hot. Well I thought about you when
Speaker 1: I saw the pizza because I was like, this guy
Speaker 1: does not eat fucking pizza. This does not look like
Speaker 1: this at this age eating pizza. And you asked him
Speaker 1: on Twitter, what are your favorite like cheese and chocolate,
Speaker 1: and he was like, fuck that shit, Like I don't
Speaker 1: think he's eating pizza, but I bet I bet you,
Speaker 1: I bet you.
Speaker 3: He had a spit bucket at the thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but even like super fitness people, they do say,
Speaker 1: you know, cheat meals, cheat days, treat days are good
Speaker 1: for your body. So I'm sure he has like a
Speaker 1: pizza when he's at a Knicks game or something like.
Speaker 1: Maybe he seemed like he had a real reaction to
Speaker 1: it when you asked about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. No, it's true.
Speaker 2: Well, because you know my fitness girl Mari that I
Speaker 2: follow NonStop I'm obsessed with.
Speaker 3: She's always like, you.
Speaker 1: Gotta have fun or nothing's worth it if you're not
Speaker 1: doing no of course. Yeah, you gotta live, you gotta live. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but thank you everybody who sent it to us. Obviously
Speaker 1: we had already been drooling over it, but we appreciate
Speaker 1: everybody thinking of us when they see a Zotti picture
Speaker 1: of Maloney.
Speaker 3: Of course.
Speaker 1: And I got a message from a gay man who
Speaker 1: was like, he knows exactly what he's doing. He wants
Speaker 1: to be like gay Daddy number one, and I go,
Speaker 1: he doesn't have to try. He had OZ. He was
Speaker 1: doing full on gay sex scenes before, like before anybody,
Speaker 1: I would say, he was full dick out in OZ.
Speaker 1: So he does you know he's the original Daddy.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: He's fucking hot. It's amazing. I just can't believe him.
Speaker 1: Amb d Wong or sixty. It's truly amazing. It's really like,
Speaker 1: you guys, your best years are yet to come because
Speaker 1: these guys look fucking great, but.
Speaker 3: You gotta work it.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 3: I went back to soul Cycle.
Speaker 2: I was actually having a really depressed day last Saturday
Speaker 2: and I just like couldn't get out of bed and
Speaker 2: didn't want to do anything. And then on Instagram I
Speaker 2: saw Spicy Girl's ride four pm and guess what that
Speaker 2: got me.
Speaker 3: Out of bed.
Speaker 2: Yes, babe, I haven't been at soul Cycle since March
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. It was outside Masks and there was a
Speaker 2: listener there and she came up. She goes, they kept
Speaker 2: calling you, Liza, but I knew it was you, and
Speaker 2: we talked in the elevator and it was exciting to
Speaker 2: have a messed up listener at soul Cycle, all my
Speaker 2: interests colliding. And then I got to go to Phil's
Speaker 2: Coffee I'm a chain Berlin's favorite coffee in LA and
Speaker 2: I was like, I am I like, I okay.
Speaker 3: I saw your story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're living your im A Chamberlain fantasy and I
Speaker 1: love it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean because I get back from New York being
Speaker 1: like I've ruined my life?
Speaker 3: What happened? What did I do? And now I'm like, okay,
Speaker 3: I can I like it. I like it. I like it.
Speaker 3: La is good too. It is.
Speaker 1: It's just I feel like a queen in New York
Speaker 1: and here I feel like a peasant. Like a peasant
Speaker 1: in New York. Everyone's clamoring to get to me. They're like, well,
Speaker 1: you do my show, And here people are like you
Speaker 1: can't go early.
Speaker 3: Everyone else has too, and I'm like, do you know
Speaker 3: who the fuck? I am? Nobody? I am nobody. I
Speaker 3: live in a room.
Speaker 1: Wait, do you want to talk about your new the
Speaker 1: new addition to your family, your new purchase.
Speaker 3: I don't even remember what you got a car? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm looking around my home. I'm like, what did I buy?
Speaker 3: What did I get? I'm like, my smart sweets.
Speaker 1: Okay, I did get a car. It was amazing. I
Speaker 1: got a Nissan CenTra.
Speaker 2: It's burgundy, and I know it's a really basic name,
Speaker 2: but I'm calling her Ruby. It's all that's feeding my
Speaker 2: soul is to call her Ruby. She's so cool. I
Speaker 2: love having a screen.
Speaker 1: I listened to podcasts and Miley Cyrus and I love driving.
Speaker 1: Cara lives three blocks away from me, and I have
Speaker 1: driven to her house now multiple times.
Speaker 3: Any excuse to drive, I will do it. And it's
Speaker 3: it's a game changer.
Speaker 1: I obviously thank you Kara and her husband for providing
Speaker 1: me with their car for so long to borrow, but
Speaker 1: it is a game changer to have your own car.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I just wanted an avocado. Guess what, I
Speaker 1: went and got an avocado. You know, it's like, it's amazing.
Speaker 1: But I did get bullied at one at.
Speaker 3: A car dealership.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then my friend slash manager negotiated my deal
Speaker 1: at another dealership for me, because she is truly a
Speaker 1: three sixty manager.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, but she told me she did this not because
Speaker 2: she's my manager, because she loves me so nice.
Speaker 1: Well, and I think she also loves the art of
Speaker 1: the deal yes that is yeah, not Donald Trump, but
Speaker 1: who is that who wrote that?
Speaker 3: Whatever? She just like loves making deals.
Speaker 2: She's good at it, and her dad likes making deals.
Speaker 2: She's a deal maker and she got me a great deal.
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna I have to still do my pretty
Speaker 2: woman moment. I want to show up at the other
Speaker 2: dealership and say, big mistake, just go.
Speaker 3: By and honk and lean out of the car. I
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 1: But my fun story is there's a little container area.
Speaker 1: We'll post it on the ground, but there is a
Speaker 1: little hole.
Speaker 2: There is a little hole area next to in the
Speaker 2: middle console. And I turned to this person and I go, oh,
Speaker 2: is this for like dipping sauces?
Speaker 3: And he went, this is to put your key. And so.
Speaker 1: Lisa thought that there was a allotted area next to
Speaker 1: the gearshift of the car where you.
Speaker 5: Put your dipping sauces from fast food places.
Speaker 1: It's too good because the shark tank does you know
Speaker 1: there are products that you clip on, So I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: they know we want to dip fries while driving safely
Speaker 1: while we're on road trips. But it is for your key,
Speaker 1: because my car now has a button. You don't put
Speaker 1: the key in the ignition, so you put Oh gosh.
Speaker 1: Those are so scary to me because I always feel
Speaker 1: like I've I've rented those before and I've left the
Speaker 1: car running. I've just like gotten out of the car
Speaker 1: and like left the car running.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's cool.
Speaker 2: It beeps if anyone's on the other east side of you,
Speaker 2: it lights up. It's been Yeah, the maps right there.
Speaker 2: It's really a game changer.
Speaker 1: It's crazy because I feel like, even like six years ago,
Speaker 1: when I started looking for cars, like you could still
Speaker 1: get rolled down windows, you could still get like just
Speaker 1: no console screen.
Speaker 3: And now it's like even.
Speaker 1: Like the most affordable cars have like good shit, which
Speaker 1: is great. Yeah, it's really awesome, and it makes me
Speaker 1: feel like an adult. I mean, life's just more as
Speaker 1: a kid. I was like, of course I'll have a house.
Speaker 1: You know, you don't think, you don't think how hard
Speaker 1: it is to do stuff. Such a different view of
Speaker 1: my parents and anyone that like raises anyone in this country.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I didn't realize how expensive life, and
Speaker 1: I know things are different now, but it's hard. When
Speaker 1: I met my husband, I was like, I mean, my
Speaker 1: goal is obviously to just like live in a brownstone
Speaker 1: in New York City, like and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: those are five million dollars. Like I just said, no, concept, No,
Speaker 1: it is really wild. Do you have any updates on
Speaker 1: your baby or your life or the house.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's good. The baby is good.
Speaker 1: He's just barfing all the time, and but he's really good.
Speaker 3: He's easy to deal with and he's good. I love him.
Speaker 3: So I had a playdate with Rosie.
Speaker 1: I think the listeners would like, tell you yes, since
Speaker 1: she was requesting it. And when I said, when I
Speaker 1: was leaving, I was like, give me a hug, and
Speaker 1: she ran into my arms.
Speaker 3: It was really cute, bounced, it was really cute. She
Speaker 3: truly loves Lisa. It's it's baffling.
Speaker 1: I don't I mean not, there's nothing, but it's like
Speaker 1: it's just who they choose to glom Onto is so
Speaker 1: funny because it's like, but she does love that you
Speaker 1: gave her a Daniel Tiger.
Speaker 3: Doll, so that might be part of it. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: my spirits. I also wanted to say.
Speaker 2: We went to a mutual friend's birthday picnic at a
Speaker 2: park type situation. Yes, and through Kara's friends, I met Michael,
Speaker 2: the man who designed Simone's red nail dress and Shake
Speaker 2: Coola's body suit, and I cornered him. You can't corner
Speaker 2: someone because it's an open park, but I cornered him.
Speaker 3: I found a way.
Speaker 1: I looked back at one point and I was like, Michael,
Speaker 1: have you guys just been talking about drag race for
Speaker 1: forty five minutes?
Speaker 3: And he was like, yep, but he seemed happy. He
Speaker 3: was happy.
Speaker 2: I never stopped asking questions. I'm like, have you ever
Speaker 2: rejected a queen who wanted you to make her address?
Speaker 3: And it was I just couldn't. I couldn't stop, but
Speaker 3: it was you know, and it's nice to be in
Speaker 3: LA and meet someone like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, And he's great and we'll hang out with him again.
Speaker 1: He's an old pal of mine since drag Con three
Speaker 1: years ago.
Speaker 3: But listen.
Speaker 1: Speaking of shake kul A, we just want to give
Speaker 1: you guys one last plug for our live show. It
Speaker 1: is tomorrow, June sixteenth, Wednesday.
Speaker 3: Listen.
Speaker 1: It's at seven pm Pacific ten pm Eastern.
Speaker 3: You can figure out your time zone on the internet.
Speaker 1: But if you can't make it, which is totally understandable,
Speaker 1: when you buy a ticket for a ten dollars ticket
Speaker 1: gets you a link that is good for a week.
Speaker 1: You can watch it, you can pause it, you can
Speaker 1: stop and start, go do your thing, come back to it,
Speaker 1: watch it four times whatever. So just saying if you're like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, somebody wrote I have my Shakespearean D
Speaker 1: and D game that night, Okay, go do that. But
Speaker 1: you also can watch it another time and still get
Speaker 1: a ticket. So yeah, And we're going to have merch
Speaker 1: giveaways and a very special guest Shai Hula, a bunch
Speaker 1: of amazing comedians who we love that are going to
Speaker 1: be playing some SVU trivia with us and it's going
Speaker 1: to be so fun. So yeah, we're doing I mean,
Speaker 1: we're pushing the limits of technology effort streaming. I mean,
Speaker 1: I am so panicked. I have not read one email.
Speaker 1: I just Kara has been doing I just can't.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just hope you guys know that this is pushing
Speaker 1: the limits of my skills. And I am so nervous
Speaker 1: but excited, but it is so hard. I like, I'm like,
Speaker 1: what kind of camera do we need? I yeah, but
Speaker 1: just so you know, we're working hard for you guys. Okay,
Speaker 1: so at least just come to the damn live show,
Speaker 1: you know, watch it later. All right, let's get going
Speaker 1: because we have a great episode and interview and everything today.
Speaker 3: So let's start it off, all right.
Speaker 2: So we are doing Collateral Damages season seventeen, episode fifteen,
Speaker 2: and we open up on a promotional event at a
Speaker 2: Brown Sugar barbecue sauce. I don't know if it's the
Speaker 2: restaurant or the sauce, but we're at a barbecue joint.
Speaker 2: And I'm curious to know where they film this because
Speaker 2: I feel like I.
Speaker 3: Have been here. It felt like the Brother Jimmy's in
Speaker 3: Union Square to me.
Speaker 1: That's what I wrote, I go to that Union Square place.
Speaker 1: That's what it felt like to me. But I cannot
Speaker 1: be positive. How many other multi level barbecue joints.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're in New York.
Speaker 1: Yes, it is multi level. Dad done comedy downstairs. There
Speaker 1: are multiple rooms downstairs. Oh, I did comedy behind the
Speaker 1: glass doors of like their fake garage. Okay, so we've
Speaker 1: both been to this Brown Sugar barbecue and there's an
Speaker 1: old man there.
Speaker 3: He's a boxer.
Speaker 2: He has a giant belt buckle and I really can't
Speaker 2: focus on anything but the belt buckle. I mean, he
Speaker 2: also has a gray little patch of hair in his hair,
Speaker 2: so I looked at that as well. And then Rollins
Speaker 2: comes in and we could tell she's undercover.
Speaker 3: Her name is Crystal.
Speaker 1: You could always tell she's undercover because she's wearing like
Speaker 1: a leopard jacket or something like wild that she would
Speaker 1: never wear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's always like, okay, we need someone to flirt
Speaker 2: and be a slut. Rollin's and she's ready to go,
Speaker 2: and she's like giant loose curls half up, half down,
Speaker 2: prom two thousand and three style, like this is what
Speaker 2: you woreed a problem twenty years ago. And Brown sugarman
Speaker 2: thrilled to see her. He's like Crystal, and she's with
Speaker 2: a super young looking teen blonde girl who I'm going
Speaker 2: to assume is undercover.
Speaker 3: Well, and assume means I have seen this multiple times.
Speaker 3: I know who it is. She's on the cover.
Speaker 1: Basically, the story is that this is Crystal's niece Amber,
Speaker 1: and her mom has been sick, so her aunt wanted
Speaker 1: to take her on a fun time to meet Teddy Hawkins,
Speaker 1: a boxer who now you know, invests into restaurants, which
Speaker 1: is a usual pro athlete move. You invest in restaurants
Speaker 1: or car dealership or become a spokesperson. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I felt like very George Foreman at the beginning of this,
Speaker 2: not that George Foreman has committed any crimes, just that
Speaker 2: he is.
Speaker 3: He did take over our world.
Speaker 1: I feel like, I guess he changed the way we lived.
Speaker 1: And Benson and Finn are sitting at a table watching
Speaker 1: Careese's at the bar.
Speaker 3: He calls him big Teddy.
Speaker 2: I liked that, And then so we know this is
Speaker 2: like a big operation. They're all there checking it out,
Speaker 2: and Teddy gets Long Island iced teas for his blonde friend.
Speaker 3: This just suddenly made me want a Long Island iced tea.
Speaker 1: I feel like I want that to be my first
Speaker 1: drink when I start getting drunk again.
Speaker 3: Okay, I could do that for you. Okay, that's the reminder. Actually,
Speaker 3: so two years ago.
Speaker 1: The pandemic obviously fucked with timelines, but my sister came.
Speaker 3: Basically, she had a Long Island iced tea.
Speaker 2: We went to a giant theater where I was doing
Speaker 2: a charity event and when we.
Speaker 3: Walked in, the security was like, who are you?
Speaker 2: What's happened. I'm like, I'm on the show. You got
Speaker 2: to be nicer to us. And then she puked in
Speaker 2: a trash can and.
Speaker 1: I'm on Long Island and it made it harder to
Speaker 1: be respected and like a producer to come and grab
Speaker 1: me the securities, like we can't let these old bitches
Speaker 1: puking like be let into this charity event. Shout out
Speaker 1: to Chris Red it was his show. So this is
Speaker 1: my favorite.
Speaker 2: It's a giant necklace that Rollins is wearing is the
Speaker 2: camera and it's just.
Speaker 1: Like a lu Adella sep style necklace. And I call.
Speaker 2: This the Simpsons rule because like, I'm Homer wears a
Speaker 2: giant hat into the Quickie Maar and records.
Speaker 3: It and it's just I love.
Speaker 2: I just love hidden cameras in giant, giant things that
Speaker 2: are obviously not like the other things.
Speaker 1: I had a friend who was like sort of going
Speaker 1: like going undercover for a weird thing. I don't want
Speaker 1: to get into it because I don't want to get
Speaker 1: her in trouble. It's kind of specific. But she wore
Speaker 1: like a button cam. She wore like a cam, like
Speaker 1: a button on a shirt that.
Speaker 3: Was up camera.
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean we're gonna have some questions. Okay, you're
Speaker 2: and I am wondering how long has she been undercover?
Speaker 1: Because he trusts her, so yeah, it is like she's
Speaker 1: known him for a while in a weird way.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Teddy takes the girls downstairs and he's like, come
Speaker 2: to the office, like, let's have a good time. And
Speaker 2: in the office, Teddy asked the niece like how old
Speaker 2: are you? She does say sixteen, so he knows that
Speaker 2: she is sixteen years old.
Speaker 3: This does not stop him.
Speaker 2: And then it like classic like oh you want to
Speaker 2: be a model, I'll take photos of you. Okay, get
Speaker 2: in the stretch a little, open your blouse. And then
Speaker 2: Finn is watching this all on an iPhone upstairs and
Speaker 2: he's snacking and then she takes off her bra and
Speaker 2: then I really didn't love this, but he starts, I
Speaker 2: would be fucked if I loved it, but he unbuckles
Speaker 2: his belt buckle and get and says, get on your knees,
Speaker 2: little girl, and I hated it.
Speaker 3: And then a man takes out her gun.
Speaker 1: And says NYPD, and the rest of the squad comes
Speaker 1: in and he's being taken in for attempted rape.
Speaker 3: So this is awesome.
Speaker 1: And Rollins is the senior cop I guess at this point,
Speaker 1: so she tells the teen passing officeer like, hey, honey,
Speaker 1: stay in this job long enough and all your heroes die.
Speaker 2: So cool, And then it is the credits, baby, and
Speaker 2: we return with the treat of all treats. We have
Speaker 2: Susie smn love Teddy's lawyer, and we're obsessed with her.
Speaker 2: Obviously she's a hero for I don't know, Jews with
Speaker 2: curly hair.
Speaker 3: No, for everybody. She is comedy legend.
Speaker 2: So Cariese and Rollins are the detective duo in charge here,
Speaker 2: and Teddy says that his plan was he was testing
Speaker 2: Rollins and he was collecting evidence and just testing how
Speaker 2: far they would go before he made a citizen's arrest.
Speaker 3: And I love an outlandish live okay, Teddy, Teddy, Teddy,
Speaker 3: come on, guy, guy, come on.
Speaker 2: Barbara and Benson are spying behind the mirror, and they're
Speaker 2: discussing what's up, and then we have Josh Pius pay
Speaker 2: Us whatever. Josh comes in as Hank Abraham, and Hank
Speaker 2: is usually a fucking asshole, but we get a little
Speaker 2: twist from him, and.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, great job, you guys. You got him
Speaker 1: on attempted rape. What about child porn? What's the child
Speaker 1: porn thing?
Speaker 2: And Benson said, Taru found some bad websites on worker servers,
Speaker 2: but they can't prove that he went to them.
Speaker 1: And Hank's like, okay, okay, okay, Well, why don't we
Speaker 1: make an example out of him. Good work.
Speaker 2: Let's do a purp walk splash him on cable news
Speaker 2: and like, great job. So Jenson and Barbara are shocked
Speaker 2: because they never get compliments from him. He's usually an asshole,
Speaker 2: so what's up? But you know, maybe he hates Teddy
Speaker 2: and I.
Speaker 1: Don't know, maybe he's like racist on top of being
Speaker 1: an asshole.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, I was thinking like more gambling, like if Teddy's
Speaker 2: up but Teddy's retired.
Speaker 3: Nothing makes sense, but it is. Yeah, everyone's confused.
Speaker 2: So back into the interrogation room, Amanda brings up a
Speaker 2: great point and she goes, listen, the girl told you
Speaker 2: she was sixteen and you kept going, So what's up
Speaker 2: with that?
Speaker 3: Bro?
Speaker 2: And then Benson walks in and says, hey, get ready
Speaker 2: for your Purp Walk and threatens.
Speaker 1: Him like we're going to get the news. You're going
Speaker 1: to be everywhere and everyone's going to know what's up
Speaker 1: with you. Shame on you.
Speaker 2: And so he starts whispering to Susie because he knows
Speaker 2: something's up. And also Amanda has like beautiful bangs and
Speaker 2: a tight little bond.
Speaker 3: It's kind of my dream.
Speaker 2: Look like I love a messy bun in the back
Speaker 2: with like cute Cinderella bans. So anyways, Teddy says, if
Speaker 2: you don't get to the Purp Walk and all this
Speaker 2: publicity for me, I will expose an online pedophile ring.
Speaker 2: And then it stops and then we go I I
Speaker 2: just could.
Speaker 3: Not care less.
Speaker 2: But we go to Senior Dodds and Junior Dodds at
Speaker 2: the gym and I don't care.
Speaker 3: I don't care. I don't care.
Speaker 1: Like Daddy Dodds is like, oh, I can get you higher,
Speaker 1: climb the ladder, do what.
Speaker 2: I say, and he's like, I don't know, I will
Speaker 2: this be you. So they're just having a weird fucking relationship.
Speaker 2: Grow up, stop listening to your dad. We go back
Speaker 2: to Teddy and he speaks the third person, which I
Speaker 2: think is psychotic, and he goes Teddy wants to do
Speaker 2: the right thing. His lies keep getting better and better. Basically,
Speaker 2: he says, people send me stuff because I'm so popular,
Speaker 2: but I don't look at them, but I know what's up.
Speaker 1: So he's incredible. He should I want to play two
Speaker 1: truths and a lie with this guy.
Speaker 2: So Teddy also says like, I don't think you should
Speaker 2: arraign me or anything, because then the pedophiles will know
Speaker 2: I've been arrested, so.
Speaker 3: Like you should wait to announce that I've been arrested.
Speaker 2: And also, the juicy stuff gets posted right after midnight,
Speaker 2: so they're going to do stings on all these online
Speaker 2: pedophile people in the middle of the night. And then
Speaker 2: we cut to you know, knocking down doors. So they're
Speaker 2: arresting pedophiles right as they're on their computers doing pedophile stuff.
Speaker 2: And then one guy, one of the pedophiles, is like,
Speaker 2: you can't be in here, and Finn just goes shut up,
Speaker 2: and it was awesome. This is actually an awesome iced
Speaker 2: tea episode, I would say. So Careese and Rollins enter
Speaker 2: a home of a super old man. He can barely move.
Speaker 2: He's like, what's a computer? Like he doesn't he truly
Speaker 2: is like a laptop what he does not know technology.
Speaker 2: They're like, where's your modem? And he goes, what the
Speaker 2: fuck is the mode?
Speaker 3: Like he doesn't know.
Speaker 1: So Kreese finds a mode like all these modems and
Speaker 1: tech things inside of a closet and he explained. The
Speaker 1: old man explains, Oh, my neighbor is using that. I
Speaker 1: don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: And they follow the cables and basically all the modems
Speaker 2: are being re routed to next door. Diabolical. Okay, this
Speaker 2: is this is intense. So next door who lives there?
Speaker 2: The old man says, us, you know, family with two kids.
Speaker 2: They knock on the door. It's pippacockx.
Speaker 1: Okay, and Rollin's is like counselor So then they have
Speaker 1: to do a cover story because they respect Pipacox. She
Speaker 1: is a defense attorney that we've seen and she works.
Speaker 3: With child services.
Speaker 1: So she has like probably one of these like harder
Speaker 1: more like heroic law jobs right where she's like helping
Speaker 1: kids in the system. The actress who plays Pipacox is
Speaker 1: named Jessica Phillips. We've seen her a couple of other times.
Speaker 3: She was in I think she was in Institutional Fail
Speaker 3: really quickly. Yes, she's in the handful of stuff. We
Speaker 3: like her.
Speaker 2: She and all accounts. She's not like you know, one
Speaker 2: of the defense attorneys were like this slime boll. Yeah
Speaker 2: it's not one.
Speaker 3: She's a cannon correct. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Rollins says a quick, like quick story and was like, ah,
Speaker 2: something we need signals like burying the lead like she's
Speaker 2: not telling her what's up. And they asked like, hey,
Speaker 2: do you have a computer we can use in some
Speaker 2: Wi Fi? And she goes, of course, and she opens
Speaker 2: these French doors and it's Hank Abraham.
Speaker 3: He's married to Pipa Cox. This is insane.
Speaker 1: Who would marry this asshole, especially someone is like nice
Speaker 1: and dedicated to helping people as Pippa And so everyone's
Speaker 1: like deputy commissioner and he like closes the pedophile stuff
Speaker 1: really quickly, and there's a family photo on the background
Speaker 1: of his computer, so you know SVU is doing some
Speaker 1: they're making a point. Okay, he's watching children be abused,
Speaker 1: but the background of his computer is his family with
Speaker 1: his and his children asleep in the next room, like
Speaker 1: it's pretty fucked up. It's very fucked up. And Pippa
Speaker 1: is like, what is this and Hank is like, get
Speaker 1: out of here. Fin and Olivia meet outside. Tucker shows up.
Speaker 1: It's a party, and I really love Tucker. He's like
Speaker 1: Jesus mary A Joseph, like he can't believe it.
Speaker 2: He's like, I know you try to fuck with my
Speaker 2: life all the time, but this you gotta do this,
Speaker 2: And Tucker says I never liked him. Olivia goes, no,
Speaker 2: one fucking likes him. He's an angry prick.
Speaker 1: They explain to Tucker that you know, Pippa, his wife,
Speaker 1: protects children. This is really weird, and Benson is going
Speaker 1: to give him some dignity and says like, let's k
Speaker 1: not cough him in front of his kids. We're going
Speaker 1: to like be nice to him. So they go back
Speaker 1: inside the house and he he's like cocky. I don't
Speaker 1: think he realizes in how much trouble he is, And
Speaker 1: this is kind of a running theme through the whole episode,
Speaker 1: where he keeps just being in denial of what is
Speaker 1: truly going on and thinks he can fuck with the
Speaker 1: system because he's probably done it before plenty of times.
Speaker 1: So he goes, I'm the chairman of the co op, like,
Speaker 1: you got to respect me. It's like, that's the least
Speaker 1: of your problems.
Speaker 2: True, and then he says call he tells Pip, but like,
Speaker 2: call Kressler, tell him to meet me at the precinct.
Speaker 2: So he's getting one of the scumbag attorneys to help him,
Speaker 2: So Roger Kresler is the attorney. Hank is shocked when
Speaker 2: the door opens, like to lead him out and there's
Speaker 2: twenty five cops just waiting to search the house, and
Speaker 2: he goes, really, you're doing this to.
Speaker 3: Me, but whatever.
Speaker 2: So then Pippa sees Olivia and gets really happy, not happy,
Speaker 2: I would say relieved, like oh, thank god you're here.
Speaker 2: No one is giving me a straight answer, and Benson
Speaker 2: is trying to be compassionate, but they have work to do.
Speaker 3: She goes, we need to search your house.
Speaker 2: You need to pack your bags, take the kids and
Speaker 2: leave and that's the only way to do it.
Speaker 3: And then the way out, the little kid.
Speaker 2: Is like, oh, a doggie and starts petting the dog
Speaker 2: and Fin's like, I'm sorry, you can't play with the
Speaker 2: dog right now, because, as we all know, working dogs.
Speaker 1: Cannot be chatting. They cannot be playing. They have a
Speaker 1: job to do. Working dogs. Working dogs are working dogs.
Speaker 1: They got shit to do. You cannot be chatting. They can't.
Speaker 3: They have to be so serious at work. That's like hard.
Speaker 1: Whenever I see a service dog, it takes a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of effort not to want to touch
Speaker 1: them because they're usually really nice Golden retrievers, and who
Speaker 1: doesn't want to touch.
Speaker 3: A golden retriever.
Speaker 1: And then this was a creative move I've never seen
Speaker 1: before where the screen becomes like the viewer of an
Speaker 1: old school video camera and it says like reck with
Speaker 1: low battery. And they basically have to record everything because
Speaker 1: it needs to.
Speaker 3: Be by the book, by the book, by the book.
Speaker 2: If you want to play a drinking game, this episode
Speaker 2: put by the book on this they say, so many
Speaker 2: times you will get wasted. But they know that he
Speaker 2: knows all the legal mumbo jumbos, so like they have
Speaker 2: to make sure everything's by the book. So they're rolling,
Speaker 2: they're looking for stuff, and they find two flash drives
Speaker 2: that are taped to the bottom of his underwear drawer.
Speaker 3: That is the money evidence.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: So Hank and Kressler are.
Speaker 1: In the fish bowl while Barbara, Tucker, and Benson are
Speaker 1: in the spy room and they find out that the
Speaker 1: flash drives came back and it's hardcore pedophile porn. Barbara's
Speaker 1: trying to poke holes and make sure that the case
Speaker 1: is air tight and talk, and then Tucker drops a
Speaker 1: bomb where Hank is using the same password for his
Speaker 1: pedophile stuff as his NYPD password. So things are just
Speaker 1: getting more and more deep with evidence where there's no
Speaker 1: way to kind of lie your way out of this.
Speaker 1: Barbara wants to make sure Pipa didn't know about this,
Speaker 1: and Benson says there is no way because Pipa walked
Speaker 1: them straight into the den. If she knew her husband
Speaker 1: was a pedophile, she wouldn't be like, yeah, come on in,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like right.
Speaker 3: She would have been like, do you have a warrant?
Speaker 3: You know? Like yeah, she led them right to him. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then Pipa also has to bring the kids to
Speaker 2: be interviewed, and she's kind of fighting it a little
Speaker 2: bit and is in denial and wants to be there
Speaker 2: and Benson says, no, you know, that's not how interviews work.
Speaker 2: So she's really going through everyone's going through it. You
Speaker 2: could tell everyone is having a lot of feeling, even
Speaker 2: the cops, Tucker, everybody.
Speaker 1: She's really good in this episode, this actress, I feel like,
Speaker 1: because you're really feeling like what it would be like
Speaker 1: to be blindsided by the behavior or like the crime
Speaker 1: that your spouse, Like this person that you're sharing your
Speaker 1: life with is committing right, Like she's really You're really
Speaker 1: like seeing the.
Speaker 3: Panic and then the anger and the frustration. Like she's
Speaker 3: really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then Hank is very much like this isn't
Speaker 2: what you think. This is a political takedown. He's in denial,
Speaker 2: PIPA's scared, everyone's in denial, honestly. So Hank is now
Speaker 2: trying to like blame the modem and that the porn
Speaker 2: just popped up and exactly when the detectives came in.
Speaker 3: He's embarrassed it'll never happen again.
Speaker 2: And Tucker's not having it, and this is honestly the
Speaker 2: sexiest I've ever thought. Tucker was like, I'm very attracted
Speaker 2: to him. His voice is really deep.
Speaker 1: He leans in, he's about to I don't know, he's
Speaker 1: really hot here. And then so he reveals that the
Speaker 1: same username and password was on the night before for
Speaker 1: over an hour and night hours in the past week.
Speaker 3: Like, this is criminal, and I understand that.
Speaker 2: But even if this was like full on legal missionary
Speaker 2: playing vanilla softcore poor, nineteen hours a week is a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why you have a full time job and kids,
Speaker 1: and yeah, you're you're carving out a lot of time
Speaker 1: for porn and that's a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So then you know, Hank is still in denial, and
Speaker 1: then Barbara's like, well, what who are you going to
Speaker 1: blame for the flash drives we found? And that's when Hank,
Speaker 1: I think, realizes he's been gotten because he great acting.
Speaker 1: This dude fucking acts his ass off and you can tell,
Speaker 1: like and the camera angles like the director did a
Speaker 1: great job as well, Like everything's closing in on him
Speaker 1: and he looks panicked and worried and it's just like
Speaker 1: an impressive scene. So then we go back and Pipa
Speaker 1: has negotiated because she's the mother and the lawyer that
Speaker 1: she gets to watch as her kids are being invested
Speaker 1: gated in those child interrogation rooms.
Speaker 3: So Rollin's is with the.
Speaker 1: Little girl and careeses with the boy, and they really
Speaker 1: they really try to tease you here, but thank god
Speaker 1: the kids are not being molested by their father. But
Speaker 1: they really like push you to the end and everyone
Speaker 1: is like, oh thank god.
Speaker 6: At the end, they're like, my daddy does one bad thing.
Speaker 6: He yells at me sometimes and you're like no. So
Speaker 6: they're at court at there's court games happening. The judge
Speaker 6: is explaining to Hank like everything that's about to happen,
Speaker 6: like what the bail is that if he gets bail,
Speaker 6: he has to be at home. He can't be with
Speaker 6: his kids, like all the rules and just breaks it all.
Speaker 3: Down to him.
Speaker 1: And then after that court procedure, the like on the
Speaker 1: way out, PIPA's walking out and every people like the
Speaker 1: media are screaming.
Speaker 3: Is your husband a pedophile? Which is rude?
Speaker 1: Did you did they expect her to stop an answer
Speaker 1: like I don't understand.
Speaker 3: I mean, the media is extremely rude. They're extremely rude.
Speaker 3: I told you, Like did I tell you? One time?
Speaker 1: I was in the media box at the VMA's because
Speaker 1: I did social media for MTV and I actually I
Speaker 1: don't want to brag. But I posted the first photo
Speaker 1: of Beyonce announcing her pregnancy with Blue Ivy. I tweeted
Speaker 1: it for the MTV account and it was like retweeted
Speaker 1: like a million times or something. I was there next
Speaker 1: to paparazzi and people would come out, and I know
Speaker 1: this is different than like being at a court, but
Speaker 1: still people would come out.
Speaker 3: They were so excited.
Speaker 1: They were like on the VMA's red carpet, people from
Speaker 1: like MTV shows and stuff, and they'd go who are you?
Speaker 1: Like they would just yell the rudest questions Like I
Speaker 1: was like, I am with scum.
Speaker 3: Right now, Like I remember thinking these are the worst people. Listen.
Speaker 3: They didn't.
Speaker 2: That's the pr person's fault. There should have been a
Speaker 2: paper passed out to everyone with everyone's names.
Speaker 4: On it for our listeners who do our drinking game.
Speaker 4: That is a place to drink. Because Kara just revealed another.
Speaker 3: Job that no one knew.
Speaker 4: She had had so many jobs, it is insane.
Speaker 3: What is your life? I didn't know about that job?
Speaker 1: That was why one claimed to Fay was like I
Speaker 1: was like I was on the walkie with my boss
Speaker 1: who was an asshole, and I go Beyonce just said
Speaker 1: she's pregnant.
Speaker 3: He goes, how do you know?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, cause I'm a fucking person with eyes
Speaker 1: and she's cradling her belly and everyone's going fucking insane.
Speaker 1: And he was like, you shouldn't tweet it until you know,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm tweeting it, and I just
Speaker 1: tweeted it.
Speaker 3: I was like, you're the worst person. Did he admit
Speaker 3: his mistakes?
Speaker 1: Never?
Speaker 3: He didn't try to.
Speaker 1: He did kiss me on the cheek when the ratings
Speaker 1: were really good the next day, and I was really annoyed.
Speaker 3: Geeuz, yeah he sucked.
Speaker 2: So Pipa and Benson start fighting after the media circus
Speaker 2: and Pepa's.
Speaker 3: Like, how how did you do this to me? There
Speaker 3: could have been so many other ways?
Speaker 1: And it's like they didn't know as your house, bitch,
Speaker 1: like they.
Speaker 2: Thought it was your neighbor. Like, no, this isn't a takedown,
Speaker 2: this wasn't planned. No one wanted to come into your
Speaker 2: house in the middle of the night, and no one
Speaker 2: wanted your husband to be a pedophile.
Speaker 3: I mean no.
Speaker 1: And she's obviously lashing out and try to place trying
Speaker 1: to place blame other places, you know, like yeah, because
Speaker 1: you don't want to just look at it and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I've just been living with a pedophile for X amount
Speaker 1: of years or whatever.
Speaker 2: So Pipa then says that she's been asked to go
Speaker 2: on leave for her job, pending a transfer where she
Speaker 2: can no longer work with any children or any victims
Speaker 2: of sex crimes. She screams, and she's like, I'm not
Speaker 2: all right. I'm not okay, the kids are not all right.
Speaker 2: It has to be paidback. Who put you up to this?
Speaker 2: What else can it be? And Benson is just like
Speaker 2: Pippa and she starts crying and falls into Benson's arms
Speaker 2: as she cries, and it's a touching moment between them,
Speaker 2: but I mean.
Speaker 1: It's the moment she really realizes, like take away all
Speaker 1: these other like accusations and all these other theories, like
Speaker 1: and it's just the theory that's right in front of you,
Speaker 1: which is that your husband is guilty.
Speaker 3: You know. Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1: So Barbara visits Hank and Crestler at the house and
Speaker 1: Hank is now like clawing it a different way to
Speaker 1: deal with this, and he's like, honestly, thank you for
Speaker 1: arresting me.
Speaker 3: I needed it. I'm an addict. I need help.
Speaker 2: I was, you know, trying I need to fight it,
Speaker 2: but I was too ashamed. I'm speaking to a rehabilitation
Speaker 2: center and Barbara goes, nah, bro, it's not that simple,
Speaker 2: like it's not gonna happen. Hank says, no, I know
Speaker 2: these are serious issues. I have worked to do, but
Speaker 2: I just need help. And Barbara's like, no, like even
Speaker 2: if I tried to give you a deal, the FEDS
Speaker 2: will not go And Hank says the Feds. He goes, yes,
Speaker 2: you're a man in the government, Like, of course you're
Speaker 2: getting twenty to thirty years in jail. That is what
Speaker 2: is happening. There's no more games. And Hank turns to
Speaker 2: Crestler and goes, is he bluffing?
Speaker 1: And Crestler goes, no, you did bad things, like I
Speaker 1: just don't know how. He's in denial, like, bro, come on,
Speaker 1: you're in the industry, like you know what's up.
Speaker 3: There is no deal to be made you have. I
Speaker 3: mean it's hard.
Speaker 1: It's like fully privileged fuel denial as well, because it's
Speaker 1: like I couldn't possibly be going to jail.
Speaker 3: I'm me, I'm a powerful white man, Like what you
Speaker 3: know like he's basically just like there's got to be
Speaker 3: a way around this. It's like, no, dude, there's not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nineteen hours a week, that's hundreds, if not thousands
Speaker 1: of hours a year, like sorry. So Hank finally is like,
Speaker 1: how did you get onto me? Someone turned me in
Speaker 1: to save their own ass? And Barbara says yes, So Hank,
Speaker 1: you know, he, like I said, he understands the business,
Speaker 1: the industry.
Speaker 3: It's not a business. I mean, it shouldn't be a business.
Speaker 3: It's a business. I don't know.
Speaker 2: But pedophiles also aren't trustworthy, Like you can't just be
Speaker 2: trusting other pedophiles, right, Like of course someone's going to
Speaker 2: turn you into to save their own asks. And Hank
Speaker 2: knows who it is. He goes, oh, it's Teddy Hawkins.
Speaker 2: And he goes, I can give you secrets too, and
Speaker 2: Barbara says, we don't need anything from you. You are bad.
Speaker 2: So Barbara says, we don't really actually need anything from
Speaker 2: you unless you can help us find the producers. And
Speaker 2: this shows like the brain damage that's happening here, Like
Speaker 2: Hank legit is like, ew, if I knew anyone like
Speaker 2: the producers, I would have turned them into the FEDS myself.
Speaker 2: If you think that I knew someone was hurting kids,
Speaker 2: they're the worst people ever.
Speaker 1: I would have done something about it. Like he truly
Speaker 1: is so deep, Like what is that compartmentalized?
Speaker 3: He does not understand.
Speaker 2: And Barbara says, what we're all thinking, like, you know
Speaker 2: the kids you're watching in the like you're watching crime
Speaker 2: scenes of children.
Speaker 3: You understand that you are they're not acting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Hank keeps me like I was never in
Speaker 2: the room when it happened. I was a parent.
Speaker 3: And Barbara says, there's new duke, keep calling Barbara Barbara.
Speaker 3: You know that. No, I didn't realize that. No, I
Speaker 3: didn't hear it at all this whole time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, most of this episode, and in another episode you
Speaker 1: did a couple of times, but I was like, she's stopping.
Speaker 1: And now this episode it's really we're on a Barbara train,
Speaker 1: Like okay, yeah, thank god, I'm not calling him babar
Speaker 1: because that's what I think about every time. Um, okay,
Speaker 1: So basically, Barbara, sorry, Barbara, Barbara, barb Barbara. So Barbara says, listen,
Speaker 1: there's no deal to be had. Hank says, there's always
Speaker 1: a deal to be had.
Speaker 2: Barbara says, focus on your family, because your friends are
Speaker 2: gonna ditch you if they already haven't, Like, everyone's gonna
Speaker 2: turn their backs on you. Plead guilty, serve your time,
Speaker 2: and spare your family any more pain. Hank says, please
Speaker 2: leave me alone and kicks Kressler and Barbara out and
Speaker 2: says get out, get out, get out, And he's just
Speaker 2: on the couch and pissed and has to think about it.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love what you. I love your notes, Liza,
Speaker 1: so funny. Benson and in a sling baby Dodd.
Speaker 2: So Benson is with baby Dodds and he has a
Speaker 2: ling on and Benson has a really cute beanie and
Speaker 2: winterwear to the max. Like I'm obsessed with Benson right now,
Speaker 2: and they're talking about Dodd's future.
Speaker 3: I don't care. Do you care?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: I don't care.
Speaker 1: I mean I don't understand. I mean, did I shed
Speaker 1: a tear when Brad Garrett killed him?
Speaker 3: Sure? Yeah, that's what I'm wondering.
Speaker 1: If like that, they're they're putting these scenes in to
Speaker 1: sort of get try to get us to care about him,
Speaker 1: so that knowing that they were sort of going to
Speaker 1: have this climactic like horrible tragic death for him.
Speaker 3: So it's like, but he wanted to stay with SVU.
Speaker 1: He was like an SVU at heart, you know, like
Speaker 1: so that it makes it like sadder when he I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm spitballing.
Speaker 3: I obviously wasn't in the writer's room, but like you know,
Speaker 3: it didn't work for me. I just don't care about
Speaker 3: the Dodds thing, like I don't. You're a grown man.
Speaker 2: Stop listening to your daddy, you know, I like grow up.
Speaker 2: And then after Benson, you know, has to do college
Speaker 2: counseling to Dodds. She is busy and has to do
Speaker 2: some social work with Pipa. And you could tell PIPA's
Speaker 2: going through it. She's in a sweatshirt, her hair's in
Speaker 2: a bun, and she's drinking white wine. She's like pandemic
Speaker 2: Chic before pandemic Chic existed.
Speaker 3: She's in a hotel.
Speaker 1: She misses her kids, you know, she sent the kids
Speaker 1: away to beat with grandparents, and.
Speaker 3: Which is a good, good call.
Speaker 2: And PIPA's mother is blaming her, which is so sad.
Speaker 2: But she's like, you do this for a living, how
Speaker 2: did you not suspect it? Which, of course that's how
Speaker 2: we should all be, Like, we would all be thinking that,
Speaker 2: And Benson goes, men who do this have to hide.
Speaker 3: It, and they get very good at it.
Speaker 2: Pipa has been you know, slept with him for twelve years,
Speaker 2: and the sucks, the sucks. She's yeah, she calls herself stupid.
Speaker 1: Of course she's going to think that, and there's really
Speaker 1: nothing to say to make her feel better. It's like,
Speaker 1: these kind of things make me really happy that I have,
Speaker 1: like all of my husband's passwords.
Speaker 3: I he doesn't know how to hide anything.
Speaker 1: He's so bad at keeping secrets or like he can't
Speaker 1: like hide a secret when he goes to McDonald's, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like he just I feel blessed
Speaker 1: that I am fully I could steal his identity in
Speaker 1: a minute and like move to Mexico.
Speaker 2: Well, it's kind of what Coco says about iced Tea.
Speaker 2: Someone asked her, how do you feel that iced Ty
Speaker 2: plays video games so much? She goes, at least I
Speaker 2: know where my man is. I don't care.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: Benson and Barbara are drinking scotch in the office discussing
Speaker 2: the case.
Speaker 1: So you know, this case is really affecting them because
Speaker 1: they're going to the Hard Booze Hard Booze. In the office,
Speaker 1: Barbara gets a call that Hank Abraham has slashed his wrists.
Speaker 3: Commercial break, Okay.
Speaker 2: Then they're in the hospital and Pippa's there and lets
Speaker 2: Benson know that he's gonna make it. She found him
Speaker 2: on the bathroom floor and she stopped in to just
Speaker 2: grab some things for the kids. And she didn't stop in,
Speaker 2: he would be dead, no, But Pippa says she doesn't
Speaker 2: want to lose him, and she wants you know, she
Speaker 2: wanted to save him. So the Dods met her at
Speaker 2: the bar and they're listening to Susie Esmond on the
Speaker 2: screen of a television talking about Teddy's case on the
Speaker 2: news and he pled out on a misdemeanor. He's starting
Speaker 2: a fund to help victims, and he got six months
Speaker 2: at most, and Hank is looking at super hard time.
Speaker 2: I don't know what that means. I don't feel bad
Speaker 2: for Hank, Like do I want Teddy to go to
Speaker 2: jail too? Sure, but this isn't making me feel bad
Speaker 2: for Hank that he got caught. You know, he's a
Speaker 2: bad guy, and I'm sure all of you are smart.
Speaker 3: Listeners you've caught on. But it makes sense.
Speaker 2: The Hank Abraham cameo in the top of the episode,
Speaker 2: rushing in being like any child poorn information, you know,
Speaker 2: so we know why he was interested in nailing Teddy.
Speaker 2: So again we get the Dods, Baby Dods, Papa Dodds,
Speaker 2: and he's like, I want to stay at SV and
Speaker 2: the dad goes, come on, move up the ladder, and
Speaker 2: he goes.
Speaker 1: No, I'm going to help people. So we're at Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: It's Sunday, February fourteenth, so it's Sunday at court, which
Speaker 1: is always weird, and it's Valentine's Day, which is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite holidays.
Speaker 3: Hank's eye are red. Is it an honor Valentine's Day? Maybe? No,
Speaker 3: I'm kidding. He's upset.
Speaker 1: His eyes are like creepy red, they're like really really bloodshot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's been crying.
Speaker 2: He pleads guilty, Thank goodness, He does a speech, he apologizes,
Speaker 2: he says sorry, that's an apology. So then Barbara asks
Speaker 2: for a deal that I'm kind of shocked by, which
Speaker 2: is he would get four years per count. But he
Speaker 2: asks the court for Hank to be able to serve
Speaker 2: it concurrently, which means he's only getting a four years
Speaker 2: in prison, which I guess Hank's right.
Speaker 3: There's always a deal to be made, damn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's obviously going to serve it in protective
Speaker 2: custody and then be on the registry for a minimum
Speaker 2: of twenty years. Pipa and Benson watch and she says,
Speaker 2: he's still my husband and we still have two children,
Speaker 2: and Benson says.
Speaker 3: I get it, you know, I get it.
Speaker 2: And then we leave the courtroom and I'm really glad
Speaker 2: we get a nice little sexual ending. Tucker and Benson
Speaker 2: are walking in like super cold weather and they're going
Speaker 2: to go have a night cap, and they link arms
Speaker 2: and they walk on off together, starting their romance.
Speaker 1: That's the beginning of Tucson. Is that what the fans
Speaker 1: call it?
Speaker 3: And I think that's what the fans call it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's weird that he only got four years,
Speaker 1: but I'm glad he got caught. And I wonder if
Speaker 1: the other pedophiles that they caught that same night are
Speaker 1: going to get.
Speaker 3: A deal like this. Yeah, right, Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 2: So yeah, collateral damages. Let's hear what's up Kara.
Speaker 1: First off, I want to just talk about how when
Speaker 1: we pick an episode of this show to do, sometimes
Speaker 1: it's like very obvious what the crime is, you know,
Speaker 1: like there's obviously a Woody Allen episode, There's obviously a
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson episode. Like there's just some that are just
Speaker 1: the crime is screaming at you. But then the others
Speaker 1: we have to look a little bit more deep to
Speaker 1: find like what cases connected based on like the time
Speaker 1: the episode came out, like what was in the press, similarities,
Speaker 1: et cetera. But in this case, I was fully prepared
Speaker 1: to research a different issue, a different crime, like a
Speaker 1: of this child pornography ring, because that's kind of what
Speaker 1: Internet some Internet sources had told me, Oh, this episode's
Speaker 1: based on this. And then we ended up talking to
Speaker 1: our guests who I will not reveal yet, who was
Speaker 1: able to give us the true tea and tell us
Speaker 1: what headline this case was ripped from, and that is
Speaker 1: Jared from Subway.
Speaker 3: This is the Jared from.
Speaker 1: This is the Jared from Subway episode, which I did
Speaker 1: not know that that needs to be updated in the
Speaker 1: wiki fandom for SVU.
Speaker 3: If you're one of their editors, please get on it.
Speaker 1: First of all, Lisa I'd like to ask you about
Speaker 1: your relationship with subway.
Speaker 3: Have you are you?
Speaker 1: Have you? Are you a current subway enjoyer? Are you
Speaker 1: a past subway enjoyer. I was hoping we would talk
Speaker 1: about her subway orders.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I get the tuna or the veggie patty,
Speaker 2: which are really weird choices, I think, But as a child,
Speaker 2: I think it's because my sister's husband was kosher, so
Speaker 2: that's why I got the non meat stuff. So I
Speaker 2: love tuna because I love mayonnaise and it's amazing. And
Speaker 2: then the veggie patty with sweet onion sauce is so
Speaker 2: fucking good. And I love that Italian urban cheese bread.
Speaker 2: I love chips, I love sometimes getting a power rate.
Speaker 2: I love subway, but I have not been in a
Speaker 2: few years. I would say, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I haven't been to a subway
Speaker 1: in probably like ten years. But in my hometown growing up,
Speaker 1: there were like almost no chains, Like we had a
Speaker 1: Starbucks and a Duncan that were like going at each
Speaker 1: other for the coffee, and then Subway was like the
Speaker 1: only chain. And it was like as a high school
Speaker 1: or middle school or.
Speaker 3: That was like what I could afford so I would.
Speaker 1: I was there all the time. I fucking loved the BLT.
Speaker 1: I loved the BMT. So you're steering clear of the
Speaker 1: deli meats. I'm getting as many deli meats as possible
Speaker 1: into my mouth.
Speaker 4: Did you see the news though, sorry, that the tuna
Speaker 4: is not tuna? It came out like two months ago.
Speaker 4: Oh I saw that. Yeah, okay, just making sure I
Speaker 4: forgot Thank you for reminding me. Yeah I did. They
Speaker 4: said that tuna wasn't tuna.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is it?
Speaker 4: A mixture of various concoctions is literally I can't Oh
Speaker 4: my god, that's what it says.
Speaker 1: The commercials were huge, like the five dollars foot long
Speaker 1: that changed the game of restaurants. I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 1: like that deal was huge. Yeah, well we'll get into
Speaker 1: what actually got them huge.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So, speaking of loving subway, we all know the biggest
Speaker 1: lover of Subway of all time was famously Jared Fogel,
Speaker 1: who was a Subway spokesperson and noted sex offender who
Speaker 1: became a massive punchline for a few years. And I
Speaker 1: kind of knew this story. I'm sure we all know
Speaker 1: the story, but like I didn't. I just never took
Speaker 1: a deep dive into it.
Speaker 3: So this is that.
Speaker 1: Jared Fogel is, unfortunately one of us, a chosen person,
Speaker 1: a Jew.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: You didn't know Jared Fogel was a Jew. I don't
Speaker 1: think of Jared as a Jewish name. I'm married to
Speaker 1: a Jared. You're right, maybe it's the focal. Maybe the
Speaker 1: Fogel should have tipped me off, but I wasn't sure.
Speaker 1: He was born and raised in Indianapolis. I've never even
Speaker 1: been there, but one of our best friends is from there,
Speaker 1: and I do so I do feel like I know
Speaker 1: a little bit about it.
Speaker 3: I've been to Indianapolis. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Her parents took me to a Greek restaurant on the
Speaker 2: water and it was delicious. I also one time was
Speaker 2: booked to perform at a venue and then they canceled
Speaker 2: the shows because Kelly Clerkson was going to be there instead.
Speaker 3: Oh, you got bumped by Kelly Clarkson. I so.
Speaker 1: Jared was a student at Indiana University at Bloomington, and
Speaker 1: he weighed, you know, four hundred and twenty five pounds.
Speaker 3: He was very overweight, and this was concerning to him.
Speaker 1: So he began a self style diet where he walked
Speaker 1: to Subway and only ate their low calorie options, eliminating
Speaker 1: your and my favorite condiment, mayo, eating smaller portions, and
Speaker 1: he started exercising more. He ended up losing two hundred
Speaker 1: and forty five pounds in eleven months, more than half
Speaker 1: his bodyweight.
Speaker 3: So I forgot who told me this.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's someone that went to school
Speaker 2: with it or whatnot, but they said that this whole
Speaker 2: story is a lie. And he went to subway because
Speaker 2: it was close to his house and he was just lazy.
Speaker 3: No, it was it was close to his house.
Speaker 1: Actually, like I read in another thing that he was
Speaker 1: that it was like a bill. He moved off campus
Speaker 1: and there was a subway nearby, so he would walk there.
Speaker 1: But I don't think it was like he was walking
Speaker 1: ten miles through snow getting steps like. I think he
Speaker 1: just was walking a subway and getting the but he
Speaker 1: eating the low calorie meals. He ended up losing, you know,
Speaker 1: half his bodyweight. And then someone who lived in his
Speaker 1: dorm wrote an article about him in the school paper,
Speaker 1: which I wrote for my school paper. None of my
Speaker 1: stories were ever picked up to national news unfortunately, And
Speaker 1: like about karaoke night at the local bar, and then
Speaker 1: this is what set his like, you know, trajectory into fame,
Speaker 1: into motions. So Men's Health magazine picks up the story,
Speaker 1: and then Subway franchises start contacting sub being like, we
Speaker 1: got to use this guy in ads, Like.
Speaker 3: We got to start using him somehow.
Speaker 1: By the way, I was in a trivia one night
Speaker 1: where they asked what is the most populous franchise, like
Speaker 1: that has the most franchises, and everybody thought it was McDonald's,
Speaker 1: and I think it is Subway in the world. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it's easier to squeeze in. You don't need a
Speaker 1: full kitchen, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like McDonald's you need a lot of space, but Subway
Speaker 2: you can throw one in the back of a gas
Speaker 2: station and a train station.
Speaker 1: Where I've always had two booths. Ours had two booths.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like a sit down like huge Gym was tiny.
Speaker 1: You're right, it was like slammed in next to a
Speaker 1: Chinese restaurant. So these franchises are like, why aren't we
Speaker 1: using this guy? So they start this whole campaign with
Speaker 1: Jared as their spokesperson. In two thousand, the year two
Speaker 1: thousand and it's it's only twenty years ago, but the
Speaker 1: first commercials truly look like ancient, Like I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm watching something on a crank projector also, do you
Speaker 1: just think about Conan and Go in the year two thousand,
Speaker 1: like when they said.
Speaker 3: That in the year two thousand?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also do you whenever I see old stuff
Speaker 1: that's not that old? I think of Sex and the
Speaker 1: City Season one, like it looked so old, like when
Speaker 1: you look at it now, it just looks like fully
Speaker 1: someone's like, I don't know, I.
Speaker 2: Knid my friends Marty and Sarah and Chicago. When I visit,
Speaker 2: we'll get high and watch nineties commercial compilations on YouTube.
Speaker 3: Not to brag, but I do cool things. That's really fun.
Speaker 1: So anyway, this sparked like a whole slew of commercials
Speaker 1: were Subway focused on being kind of like the healthy
Speaker 1: fast food option. They focused on Jared, they focus on
Speaker 1: some other people's stories, and the original spots came with
Speaker 1: a disclaimer that said the Subway diet combined with a
Speaker 1: lot of walking worked for Jared. We're not saying this
Speaker 1: is for everyone. You should check with your doctor before
Speaker 1: starting any diet program, but it worked for Jared. Okay,
Speaker 1: so now Jared, like over the years, Jared goes on Oprah,
Speaker 1: he gets parodied on Us and l there's a whole
Speaker 1: South Park about him.
Speaker 3: He's on the Sharknado movies.
Speaker 1: He just like started to become like unfortunately, like the
Speaker 1: MyPillow guy or Tan Mom. He just starts to become
Speaker 1: like a cultural person, you know, a person in our culture.
Speaker 3: And then he.
Speaker 1: Would tour around with his sixty two inch waist pants
Speaker 1: now down to a thirty four and just like show
Speaker 1: everyone the.
Speaker 3: Pants if you remember that.
Speaker 1: And then in two thousand and eight they did this
Speaker 1: whole campaign and paired it with his tour to pants
Speaker 1: where he routinely visited elementary schools.
Speaker 3: And now you'll see why that's creepy later.
Speaker 1: Then, around two thousand and eight two thousand and nine
Speaker 1: is when we started seeing a little bit less of
Speaker 1: Jared and commercials because we started focusing more on the.
Speaker 3: Five five five dollar for long right, yeah, Lisa your favorite?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I would have to split it with someone
Speaker 2: because who can eat a hole full long?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and less, like I said, unless you're doing when
Speaker 1: I was so broken college, Also one year I wanted
Speaker 1: to stay for graduation and like party, and I was
Speaker 1: my mom was like, yeah, but I'm not giving you
Speaker 1: any money, and I was like okay, And I just
Speaker 1: ate six inches for lunch and six inches for dinner
Speaker 1: and that was like my health for a week. Even
Speaker 1: though they leaned away from Jared a little bit for
Speaker 1: the five dollars foot long, by twenty thirteen, he'd filmed.
Speaker 3: Almost three hundred commercials for some way.
Speaker 1: What Yeah, and he was reportedly worth fifteen million dollars,
Speaker 1: which you know, I think that's from CelebrityNetWorth dot Com,
Speaker 1: which we all know is bullshit, but that's like that's
Speaker 1: the general what A lot of articles have said, that's
Speaker 1: kind of what around his net worth. And he was
Speaker 1: credited for increasing subway sales by thirty three to fifty
Speaker 1: percent from nineteen ninety eight to twenty eleven. So like
Speaker 1: your I know, five dollars foot long was huge, but
Speaker 1: like Jared got subway, like they turned them from like
Speaker 1: a small kind of little like sandwich chain into this
Speaker 1: like mega thing, like he was very much a part
Speaker 1: of that. So he also developed the Fogel Foundation to
Speaker 1: fight childhood obesity. And this will come up later, so
Speaker 1: we all know Fogel was not the innocent prince of
Speaker 1: sandwiches that he may have seemed. And in two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven he got on the FBI's radar when a
Speaker 1: former journalist in Sarasota, Florida, said that Fogel had confessed
Speaker 1: his antraction to young.
Speaker 3: Girls to her.
Speaker 1: He had told her that, and this was this woman
Speaker 1: that he just met, and she just was very good
Speaker 1: at getting him to open up and say everything that
Speaker 1: he was into and everything he had done. And so
Speaker 1: she brought him to the FBI and then became an
Speaker 1: informant for them. She recorded all their conversations, their texts,
Speaker 1: she wore a wire, and then she brought all this
Speaker 1: information to the FBI. But ultimately he couldn't be prosecuted because.
Speaker 3: Of lack of evidence.
Speaker 1: I guess like even though she got all this info,
Speaker 1: there just wasn't enough evidence. Maybe there weren't like names
Speaker 1: of victims or I don't know, but that two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven investigation is what got him on the radar,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't ultimately prosecuted for any of those crimes.
Speaker 1: Cut to April of twenty fifteen, the director of the
Speaker 1: Fogel Foundation, Russell Taylor is arrested for child exploitation. This
Speaker 1: is Russell Taylor is Jared Fogel's friend and the head
Speaker 1: of his foundation, and he's arrested for child exploitation, possession
Speaker 1: of child pornography, and voyeurism and was eventually sentenced to
Speaker 1: twenty seven years in federal prison in April of twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1: Fogel severs all ties with him immediately following the arrest. Okay,
Speaker 1: two months later, July of twenty fifteen, the FBI raids
Speaker 1: Fogel's house in Indiana, seizing his electronics, all these documents.
Speaker 1: Because the investigation of Russell Taylor led the FEDS to Jared,
Speaker 1: and that must have been like a really tense five
Speaker 1: to six weeks for Jared in between his own arrest
Speaker 1: and the arrest of his friend, because he was like,
Speaker 1: they're coming, right, He had.
Speaker 3: To know they were on their way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But then it's like delete all your shit and
Speaker 2: move to Mexico, bro, Like, I know how you just
Speaker 2: sit there and continue doing pedophile games.
Speaker 3: I know you're right, You're right.
Speaker 1: It's really it's really nuts. So he gets arrested. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: authorities found that Taylor and Fogel had traded sexually explicit
Speaker 1: photos and videos of children, some as young as six
Speaker 1: in these videos and photos, which is horrible. Of course,
Speaker 1: Subway cut ties with Jared Fogel the exact same day.
Speaker 1: They like suspended all his campaigns and everything. The FBI
Speaker 1: also discovered text messages from two thousand and eight between
Speaker 1: Fogel and a Subway franchise named Cindy, who he was
Speaker 1: having an affair with, where he talked about sexually abusing
Speaker 1: children ranging in age from nine to sixteen, and asked
Speaker 1: for her to arrange for him to have sex with
Speaker 1: her sixteen year old cousin.
Speaker 3: So this man is very sick.
Speaker 1: Mill's lawyer said that she told Subboy's corporate about the texts,
Speaker 1: and Subway said, because Fogel was not a Subway.
Speaker 3: Employee, there was no violation. I don't know how he's not.
Speaker 1: Maybe he works for the pr company that Subway hires,
Speaker 1: but he is the face of your company.
Speaker 3: This is really bad.
Speaker 1: The FBI found text messages to a woman in which
Speaker 1: Fogel said he would pay big quote unquote if she
Speaker 1: could procure fourteen year old children and said that he
Speaker 1: quote unquote craved underage Asian girls. And in these texts,
Speaker 1: he also expressed sexual interest in young boys, and a
Speaker 1: recording exists where he does describe.
Speaker 3: To a friend a sexual accounter with a male child.
Speaker 1: So he, I just I feel like it's you don't
Speaker 1: always hear about it being pre pubescent and post pubescent,
Speaker 1: Like he's into both.
Speaker 3: It sounds like, uh, and I just don't think you
Speaker 3: hear about that as much.
Speaker 1: It's usually like you're into small children, or you're into
Speaker 1: like just young girls, but that have boys that have
Speaker 1: developed past puberty. There were a couple of other allegations
Speaker 1: against Fogel, like he propositioned a girl in Vegas at
Speaker 1: like a convention, but Subway barely investigated it, and.
Speaker 3: Then they assumed.
Speaker 1: It was assumed that when he met his second wife,
Speaker 1: Katie McLaughlin, that this would curb the pedophile behavior. They
Speaker 1: thought the marriage would keep him quote unquote grounded. Katie
Speaker 1: is his wife who he has two children with. Obviously
Speaker 1: is pissed when the sal comes out, and eventually filed
Speaker 1: a lawsuit against Subway to get answers about like what
Speaker 1: did you know? When did you know it? Like when
Speaker 1: did people report stuff? Why didn't you investigate?
Speaker 3: Damn?
Speaker 2: Because you know, subways acting like we found out and
Speaker 2: cut ties go fuck yourself.
Speaker 3: But they knew.
Speaker 1: They admit at one point that one of the investigation,
Speaker 1: one of the allegations, was not properly investigated.
Speaker 3: They're like, we mishandled it.
Speaker 1: But by August of twenty fifteen, federal prosecutors cut a
Speaker 1: deal with Vogel. There is kind of always a deal
Speaker 1: to be had, especially when you're famous white man. He
Speaker 1: pleads guilty to two counts, the distribution and receipt of
Speaker 1: child pornography and one of traveling to engage in illicit
Speaker 1: sexual conduct with a minor, and that stems from trips
Speaker 1: to New York City where he paid to engage in
Speaker 1: sexual acts with a seventeen year old. The FBI investigation
Speaker 1: shows that he arranged his business trips to coincide with
Speaker 1: like meeting underage sex workers, and there were several times
Speaker 1: that he traveled to New York City to engage in
Speaker 1: sex with minors.
Speaker 3: Under the age of eighteen.
Speaker 1: In November of twenty two, well If, he allegedly paid
Speaker 1: a seventeen year old for sexual acts at the Plaza.
Speaker 1: The next day, he asked her ya text if she
Speaker 1: could find him another underage girl quote unquote, the younger
Speaker 1: the better, uh. And then he traveled to New York
Speaker 1: City again in twenty thirteen to have sex with the
Speaker 1: same girl. And then this girl also said that on
Speaker 1: three separate occasions, she's had sex with Fogel when she
Speaker 1: was sixteen, So she's one of his victims. All told,
Speaker 1: he had fourteen victims, both boys and girls. He was
Speaker 1: eventually ordered to pay them one point four million dollars
Speaker 1: in restitution, so about one hundred thousand dollars per victim.
Speaker 3: So I didn't even know this.
Speaker 2: I assumed, I mean that he was just watching child
Speaker 2: abuse images and stuff, but he is legit also raping
Speaker 2: young kids.
Speaker 1: Well he yeah, he's raping teenagers that are minors for sure.
Speaker 1: And then a lot of the other stuff I think
Speaker 1: was unprovable because it was just him like talking to
Speaker 1: people like oh, yeah I did this, I did that
Speaker 1: or whatever. But maybe they couldn't find the victim more
Speaker 1: like it could have just been him bragging about things
Speaker 1: that didn't happen, or it could have happened, and there
Speaker 1: just is an evidence.
Speaker 3: I really maybe I.
Speaker 2: Just didn't look into this that deep, but they hid
Speaker 2: that pretty well, like I don't.
Speaker 3: I didn't know this. I remember hearing about the trip
Speaker 3: to New York.
Speaker 1: I remember hearing like, oh, he's sketually like had sex
Speaker 1: with someone in New York.
Speaker 3: But it definitely wasn't. It was one of those things.
Speaker 1: Where you thought, oh, but he thought the person was
Speaker 1: of age or whatever. Like I just you didn't really
Speaker 1: get an idea of how like truly sick he was
Speaker 1: until I started really looking into this. And much like
Speaker 1: in the SVU episode, he faced up to fifty years
Speaker 1: in prison if he went to trial, but with the
Speaker 1: plea deal, they agreed to seek no more than twelve
Speaker 1: and a half years, with a minimum of five, which
Speaker 1: Fogel agreed to, and any communication with minors or contact
Speaker 1: had to be supervised, including visits with his own kids
Speaker 1: and his wife was contesting those, and then he would
Speaker 1: have to be registered as a sex offender.
Speaker 3: For the rest of his life and undergo treatment.
Speaker 1: When he entered his plea in November twenty fifteen, so
Speaker 1: this all went pretty fast, Like he was arrested in
Speaker 1: July and he was like entering a guilty plea in
Speaker 1: November of.
Speaker 3: The same year.
Speaker 1: He apologized and said he wanted a chance to become
Speaker 1: quote a good honest person after getting caught up in
Speaker 1: a life of quote deception, lies, and complete self centeredness.
Speaker 1: I don't really know if that's getting to the point
Speaker 1: of what you did, but I guess thank you for
Speaker 1: your apology. There was a this is like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: this is like interesting, but I think kind of bullshitty.
Speaker 1: Like the a forensic psychiatrist who testified for Fogel's defense
Speaker 1: named John Bradford said because Fogels suffered from like a
Speaker 1: compulsive eating disorder for several years before he lost his weight,
Speaker 1: he replaced food with a sense of hyper sexuality, which
Speaker 1: included this guy says, quote unquote mild or weak pedophilia,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't know how mild it is,
Speaker 1: like you're fully interested in nine year olds, But okay,
Speaker 1: I guess they consider it if it's post pubescent like
Speaker 1: a we kerb pedophilia, but I don't think that.
Speaker 3: That is valid.
Speaker 1: Fogel ended up getting sentenced to fifteen years and eight
Speaker 1: months in prison, which is three years more than the
Speaker 1: prosecutor asked for, so I think the judge was like,
Speaker 1: this isn't enough. The judge said that quote the level
Speaker 1: of perversion and lawlessness exhibited by mister Fogel is extreme,
Speaker 1: so he has to serve a minimum of thirteen years
Speaker 1: before becoming eligible for time off with good behavior. So
Speaker 1: that means his earliest possible release date is July of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty nine, and that is would be a month
Speaker 1: before his fifty second birthday. And yeah, he's going to
Speaker 1: be on supervisor release for the rest of his life.
Speaker 1: And he tried to appeal the sentence, but it was upheld.
Speaker 1: So that's what happened to the King of Subway, Jared Fogel.
Speaker 2: And I feel like, I wonder if you got protective
Speaker 2: custody or if he's just super famous in jail, because
Speaker 2: there's no way that they didn't like people in jail
Speaker 2: wouldn't know who that is. I know, I know, and
Speaker 2: you know, child molesters famously do not do well in
Speaker 2: prison exactly.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine he's having a very pleasant time.
Speaker 2: But and do we have any updates on his family
Speaker 2: and how they're doing.
Speaker 1: I know that she the wife, his second wife, did
Speaker 1: get seven million dollars in the divorce, so hopefully they
Speaker 1: went and like changed their names and just at like
Speaker 1: living somewhere happily his wife and kids.
Speaker 3: But I just.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, you know, again, it's not like
Speaker 1: Lisa and I are here to help people get away
Speaker 1: with crimes.
Speaker 3: But it's just like.
Speaker 1: You're talking to people over text about all this stuff.
Speaker 1: You're opening up to random strangers about it. Like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think this journalist in Sarasota is one of the
Speaker 1: reasons he got taken down, just because she was it
Speaker 1: was easy to get him talking about it, and like
Speaker 1: he just was like, oh yeah, I love being with kids,
Speaker 1: like and just got him to open up, and she
Speaker 1: recorded so much of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's arrogance.
Speaker 4: That seems like a very I'm surprised by how light
Speaker 4: a sentence that is for Jared when someone's actually physically
Speaker 4: acting on it.
Speaker 1: I think because he only made the plea deal based
Speaker 1: on the relationship in New York, which was a seventeen
Speaker 1: year old girl who said that things happened when it
Speaker 1: was sixteen, but maybe there was no proof, and he
Speaker 1: you know, these guys always say I thought they were eighteen,
Speaker 1: you know, and like I'm sure jury, like they're like,
Speaker 1: if we bring this to a jury, they might be
Speaker 1: like seventeen eighteen.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: I think obviously he's guilty of other stuff, but that's
Speaker 1: not what was part of the plea deal.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean it's not great. It's not great.
Speaker 1: And like I think we'll never know like the extent
Speaker 1: of his crimes really because I don't know. There just
Speaker 1: isn't like a lot of documentation about his other victims.
Speaker 2: But and thank god, Subway just keeps on thriving. I mean,
Speaker 2: Subway cannot be taken down. Your spokesman is a full
Speaker 2: on pedophile rapist.
Speaker 1: You keep on trucking like it is really crazy what
Speaker 1: a hold on society Subway has, right, Have you had
Speaker 1: the veggie Patty?
Speaker 3: No, it is really good.
Speaker 1: Exist When I was like in my heyday of my
Speaker 1: Subway days.
Speaker 2: And then my friend who I lost to a cult
Speaker 2: called Landmark when we were younger, she would get the
Speaker 2: seafood salad it Subway, and that to me was like
Speaker 2: I should have stopped being friends with her at the
Speaker 2: moment I saw her later.
Speaker 3: That is making my stomach turn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my little brother Colin was such a picky eater
Speaker 1: as a kid. He would only get a six inch tuna,
Speaker 1: nothing on it. No cheese, nothing else, no lettuce, just
Speaker 1: two scoops of tuna in white bread. And if there
Speaker 1: was any black bits inside the tuna, you wouldn't eat it.
Speaker 3: What are black bits like? Anything like a piece of pepper?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: Anyway, is this Colin? Yeah? This is Colin. Have we
Speaker 3: already talked about this? No, Colin.
Speaker 2: So I met Colin and his fiance and we were
Speaker 2: at dinner and each of them ordered the duck, and
Speaker 2: it bothered me so much. I like confronted them. I
Speaker 2: was like, so, you're both going to get the duck.
Speaker 2: You just love duck. Don't you want to share? Don't
Speaker 2: you want to go house? He has, like why are
Speaker 2: you each getting it? You both need that much duck?
Speaker 2: And they're like, yeah, we both want duck. I don't
Speaker 2: know what to tell you, and I tell you, I
Speaker 2: just don't understand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, yeah, that's that's very You're coming from
Speaker 1: a very me place where I'd be like, oh, wait,
Speaker 1: you want the duck, I'll get the duck, you get
Speaker 1: a pasta, we'll both have a little bit of both,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, no. They just were both sitting in front
Speaker 1: of me, and then I ordered the octopus. They brought
Speaker 1: me one tentacle, one tentacle for seventeen dollars. That was
Speaker 1: a sad meal to watch Lisa eat. Yeah, to watch
Speaker 1: Lisa eat one tentacle.
Speaker 3: It was a lot. I know.
Speaker 1: Megan was like, do you want some of this brand Zeno.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, of course. I wouldn't have ordered the
Speaker 1: octopus if it was gonna if I knew one tentacle
Speaker 1: was gonna arrive, Like, I'm fucking sad, little Mermaid.
Speaker 3: It was just it was a bummer. It was a bummer.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: Well, what's not a bummer is our interview that is
Speaker 1: coming up. And we're so excited to talk to this person,
Speaker 1: so we'll be right back. All right, I'm really excited
Speaker 1: for this interview. We went a little bit out of
Speaker 1: the box this time, guys. We did not talk to
Speaker 1: an actor from the episode. We talked to the writer
Speaker 1: of the episode. Our guest has written on Er the Practice,
Speaker 1: Cold Case Crossing Jordan. She's a former co executive producer
Speaker 1: and writer on Long Order Special Victims Unit and we.
Speaker 3: Were so so privileged to talk to her.
Speaker 1: So, guys, check out our interview with Samantha Corbyn Miller well,
Speaker 1: you did listen to Institutional.
Speaker 2: Fail, which you wrote, and how did you feel about
Speaker 2: what we said?
Speaker 3: I'm like, are you here to drag us?
Speaker 1: Like we're ready for you to tell us that we're
Speaker 1: completely wrong about everything?
Speaker 3: No, no, you guys.
Speaker 5: You know you guys nailed it. Yeah, I mean, oh ah, solid,
Speaker 5: super solid. I enjoyed it, and I forget how I
Speaker 5: forget exactly. There was a moment you said something about
Speaker 5: Barbara Barbara like coming in here, mister you know you're
Speaker 5: all hot for mister suspenders and you know, representing the patriarchy.
Speaker 3: I was like, I was on my floor.
Speaker 1: Was it cool to have Whoopy Goldberg say that monologue
Speaker 1: on the stand?
Speaker 5: It was unbelievable. I mean, whoop bee, she's like the
Speaker 5: consummate pro. She just comes in there and knocks it out,
Speaker 5: and to you know, to sort of be sitting back
Speaker 5: and watching.
Speaker 3: Her do her thing was unbelievable. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 5: And it's funny because at first I was thinking like, huh,
Speaker 5: Whoopy Goldberg, because when you know, when we were first
Speaker 5: writing the episode, I was thinking like, you know, she's
Speaker 5: she's warm, and she's coming and you know, all the
Speaker 5: stuff that you know, we love about Whoopy Goldberg. And
Speaker 5: I was thinking about this like sort of just tight
Speaker 5: you know, start shirt bureaucrat. But you know when when
Speaker 5: the casting folks and Warren were like, hey what about
Speaker 5: whoop Bee, I was like, oh, okay, like it just
Speaker 5: put it literally, she she dimensionalized the role and the idea,
Speaker 5: you know, so so much more by being part of it.
Speaker 1: We talk about how like the show really does great
Speaker 1: things by like turning comedians like on their heads kind
Speaker 1: of and making them like creepy or sort of more
Speaker 1: bureaucratic or like, you know, different things that when they
Speaker 1: when they cast comedians, it's like never what you expect.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, And I think, you know, people are so
Speaker 5: game for that challenge. You know, the same with with
Speaker 5: so many of these Broadway superstars. I mean talk about
Speaker 5: having this amazing uh you know, well of talent to
Speaker 5: pick from, you know, having done most of the shows
Speaker 5: I've worked on have been in LA so you know,
Speaker 5: to spend those years in New York and to have
Speaker 5: this whole new pool of incredible actors, you know, so
Speaker 5: many with that theater training, it was just like it
Speaker 5: was like being a kind of candy store.
Speaker 3: Was so great.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Broadway, one of the episodes you wrote, the
Speaker 1: Agent Provocateur, Did you know it was going to be
Speaker 1: Patty Lapone or was it like a whoopee thing where
Speaker 1: they tell you after how did that work out?
Speaker 3: Same same thing? Yeah, it was.
Speaker 5: It was after and definitely when we knew it was
Speaker 5: it was mss Diva Patti La the one, the only Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: that's that's when we were like, Okay, we're going to
Speaker 5: start putting out, you know, rewrite pages because we need more.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Well, so can you tell us a little
Speaker 1: bit about like your background. Obviously we've like looked you
Speaker 1: up and you worked on season three as a consulting
Speaker 1: producer and then you came back later on seasons sixteen
Speaker 1: and seventeen as a as an ep So, like, I
Speaker 1: just like, how what was your Did you know Neil
Speaker 1: Bher from Er, Like we just want to know how
Speaker 1: you got like into the SVU universe and like what's
Speaker 1: your backstory?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's cool. I never thought i'd be a universe.
Speaker 5: You know, I don't I don't do capes, I.
Speaker 3: Don't do tights.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I knew Neil from Er, you know, he was
Speaker 5: my my doctor sense. That was my you know kind
Speaker 5: of jump into into the big time. Was I started
Speaker 5: as a staff writer on Er and he graciously brought
Speaker 5: me into uh SVU.
Speaker 3: To help out.
Speaker 5: I actually had a commitment over at Universal, so I
Speaker 5: wasn't able to support of jump on full time as
Speaker 5: as I would have loved to, you know, but I
Speaker 5: came in. I helped on a couple of episodes and
Speaker 5: just you know, fell in love with the world and
Speaker 5: the voice and of course Olivia Benson and uh you
Speaker 5: know then sort of went around the maypole for many,
Speaker 5: you know, many years. And I mean that's the great
Speaker 5: thing about like SVU is you can literally have an
Speaker 5: entire lifetime and come.
Speaker 3: Back to sv still gonna be there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we got into this a little bit with Neil,
Speaker 1: but I am sort of interested in like the writer's
Speaker 1: room process, maybe just as a writer. I'm I think
Speaker 1: that's interesting how you guys do things, because because the
Speaker 1: episodes are so sort of compartmentalized, but then there will
Speaker 1: be these like story arcs, like I think one of
Speaker 1: your seasons is like when Benson gets Noah, or like,
Speaker 1: you know, there's all these overarching things that kind of
Speaker 1: do continue.
Speaker 3: Over the course of a season.
Speaker 1: Do you guys sit together at the beginning of the
Speaker 1: season and say, Okay, this is what's going to happen
Speaker 1: overall generally, but then go off and write your own episode.
Speaker 1: Do you break story together in the room? Like how
Speaker 1: does it work?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I mean SPU is a really interesting animal. You know,
Speaker 5: it's such a well oiled machine. And it's not really
Speaker 5: a room show. It's a lot more kind of independent study.
Speaker 5: I mean, we had you know, kind of bullpen areas
Speaker 5: where you know, we'd chop it up and talk with
Speaker 5: each other. But it isn't that traditional. We're all sitting
Speaker 5: in a room, you know, eight hours a day, you know,
Speaker 5: breaking stories as a group. But it's really we'd always be,
Speaker 5: you know, generating ideas and keeping up with stories you know,
Speaker 5: in the outside world. And basically we'd come in and
Speaker 5: pitch them to Warren, like the showrunner, you know, and
Speaker 5: he'd have his ideas of stories he wanted to.
Speaker 3: Do, and i mean, you know, you your number would
Speaker 3: be called.
Speaker 5: When your number was called, and you know, suddenly out
Speaker 5: of the blue, you know, literally would be like, hey, Samantha,
Speaker 5: you're doing the episode in this case, you know, you're
Speaker 5: you're doing the Jared from Subway episode.
Speaker 1: So did they like, were you guys like we got
Speaker 1: to take down? Hey Abraham, how are we going to
Speaker 1: do it? Or you're like, Okay, we're going to have
Speaker 1: this storyline. Who in the universe are we going to take?
Speaker 3: How did it? Yeah? How did it come about?
Speaker 6: That?
Speaker 5: It was him that that was actually the second version.
Speaker 5: We came up with this idea, and you know a
Speaker 5: lot of times the the source material, you know that
Speaker 5: the rip from the headlines is obscure, and it's also
Speaker 5: never like a one trick pony like, it's never like
Speaker 5: this is the story of X, Y and Z from
Speaker 5: beginning to end. So we sort of use the Jared
Speaker 5: as a jump off. But then what was really interesting
Speaker 5: that I wanted to explore was the idea of all
Speaker 5: the people who are left behind. I mean it's literally
Speaker 5: in the title like collateral damages all the people you
Speaker 5: don't think about, you know, when you hear someone's being
Speaker 5: dragged off in cuffs and you know, some high profile
Speaker 5: case and it's like, you know, they have wives, they
Speaker 5: have children, they have you know.
Speaker 3: All these people and how do they deal with that?
Speaker 3: And we talked about how could.
Speaker 5: We do that story and make it really impactful, you know,
Speaker 5: and so we feel through our characters who we care
Speaker 5: about that they would be impacted in that same kind
Speaker 5: of way, and in a way, they too are those
Speaker 5: collateral damages. And you know, it was actually Warren who
Speaker 5: had the great idea of like, why don't we make
Speaker 5: it Hank Abraham, And once again.
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, but that guy is such a prick, right.
Speaker 5: That was kind of like, so he's he's you know,
Speaker 5: he's been elevated from prick to you know, child child
Speaker 5: pornography enthusiast.
Speaker 3: Like, Okay, it's not as much of a jump, but
Speaker 3: I liked.
Speaker 5: It in that way of you know, I feel like
Speaker 5: we've seen the like, oh he's the nice guy, he's
Speaker 5: the you know, beloved coach or the beloved whatever, and
Speaker 5: oh he has this horrible secret. But there was like
Speaker 5: an extra once again, just like with that that wold
Speaker 5: be casting decision in Institutional Fail. It was that one
Speaker 5: little bit of extra that that made it a lot
Speaker 5: more real and a lot more interesting, which is this
Speaker 5: is that you know, uh, this this blowhard bureaucrat asshole
Speaker 5: that we all had to deal with.
Speaker 3: You know, we have that person in our lives. But
Speaker 3: yet and still, you know, yet, I still you know,
Speaker 3: for all the.
Speaker 5: Annoyance that this person might cause, you cannot believe that
Speaker 5: they're involved with something like this.
Speaker 1: And it humanizes him marrying him with Pippa Cox, right, like,
Speaker 1: because she's pretty much was liked there was she didn't
Speaker 1: have any like bad. She's like the other the softer
Speaker 1: side of this man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was I thought it was really interesting
Speaker 1: how it went with him too, and like the various
Speaker 1: phases of him being like, get out of here.
Speaker 3: You guys got nothing.
Speaker 1: On me, and then him being like, Okay, I'm in rehab,
Speaker 1: so I'm I'm admitting it, but I did, I'm getting help,
Speaker 1: you know, like, and then all the way to like
Speaker 1: utter despair when he realizes that his life. You know,
Speaker 1: he really just like kind of played through a lot
Speaker 1: of cycles there, and.
Speaker 3: His acting was so good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you do feel a little bit even though he
Speaker 1: is this prick for all these other episodes and in
Speaker 1: this one too, initially, like you do sort of feel
Speaker 1: for him a little bit even though he's guilty and
Speaker 1: he's because you see these kids and this wife and
Speaker 1: the collateral damages as you were saying.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, he definitely took us through the stages of
Speaker 5: asshole grief, very very beautifully.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, and so much of so many
Speaker 5: of those details actually came out of, you know, researching
Speaker 5: families that had gone through, you know, similar situations.
Speaker 3: You know, even that moment of the little.
Speaker 5: Girl, you know when she sees the police dog and
Speaker 5: wants to pet the police dog because for her, all
Speaker 5: she knows is, oh.
Speaker 3: Here are a bunch of people in the house and
Speaker 3: they brought it dog. Great. You know, she has no
Speaker 3: idea that you know, her world has just exploded.
Speaker 1: In the pitching process or during stuff. Is there anything
Speaker 1: you fought hard for that entered into an episode or
Speaker 1: things that you really fought for and wanted that didn't
Speaker 1: turn out in an episode.
Speaker 5: One of the first ideas I came in with was
Speaker 5: I really wanted to do the sort of over the
Speaker 5: top method actor who might be a creep, you know,
Speaker 5: James Franco, Shilah Boof. I wanted to do it so badly,
Speaker 5: and that was one of those ones that I kept
Speaker 5: being like, so now can we And I guess maybe
Speaker 5: I'd beat him down long enough that that finally we
Speaker 5: got to do it an agent provocateur.
Speaker 3: But that that one, that one was like, my it's
Speaker 3: like I wouldn't let it go. I was like a dog.
Speaker 3: I loved the bone with that one.
Speaker 1: You as a writer, were you were you on set
Speaker 1: for shooting or like, did you ever like collaborate with
Speaker 1: like the directors or the actors or anything like that,
Speaker 1: or was it just like you hand in your scripts
Speaker 1: and then you see what happens.
Speaker 5: Oh? No, it was it was full on, like pre
Speaker 5: pre production through shooting. You're you are very much on set,
Speaker 5: which oftentimes is you know, in some.
Speaker 3: Blow zero were house, Yeah, like less than savory location. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I found out real quick coming from Los Angeles that
Speaker 5: those big Canadian or Canada goose coats aren't aren't just
Speaker 5: for Drake anymore. They are like nessary. I totally got roasted.
Speaker 5: Like the first day I showed up on set with
Speaker 5: like basically the California version of a winter coat, and
Speaker 5: the entire crew is just like it's this lightweight. So
Speaker 5: so yeah, I mean that's that's one of the joys
Speaker 5: of working on SVU is not only are you there
Speaker 5: you know for the entire run. I mean you're on
Speaker 5: set for every minute of your shoot. But you know,
Speaker 5: just the fact that the show has such access to
Speaker 5: amazing locations all around New York and the location managers
Speaker 5: are amazing and they find these, you know, these hidden gems.
Speaker 5: So it's like even just going on a location scout
Speaker 5: for this shoot is like some you know, Atlas Obscura,
Speaker 5: like you know, behind the scenes. I mean, I've been
Speaker 5: in like weird underground temples. I've been in one hundred
Speaker 5: story you know, one hundred million dollar penthouses, you know.
Speaker 5: And what's incredible is people will open up these you know,
Speaker 5: these very sort of private or deluxe spaces because the
Speaker 5: show has such cachet, you know, so it's like you're
Speaker 5: walking through someone's penthouse and.
Speaker 3: You know, they make you put on booties and you know,
Speaker 3: a tithek.
Speaker 5: Suit to you know, because so you don't put your
Speaker 5: your crew cooties on their their fabulus stuff. And you're
Speaker 5: walking through and you're like, oh, there's an original Warhol,
Speaker 5: Oh there's a rock coat, like and they're just like, here,
Speaker 5: please put put this on your show so I can
Speaker 5: talk about it at the country club.
Speaker 3: Like it's it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Well, no, that's I'm glad you said that because we
Speaker 2: just covered Identity from one of the earlier seasons and
Speaker 2: I noticed this cool painting in one of the houses,
Speaker 2: and now I like.
Speaker 3: To know that it could be a real home with
Speaker 3: real art. Yeah, it excites me.
Speaker 5: I mean if they can clear it, you know, because
Speaker 5: a lot of that stuff you can't get legal clearance for,
Speaker 5: so our art department, those guys are just they're so good.
Speaker 5: They're so good at like mocking up dupes and you
Speaker 5: know they always put some Easter eggs too, and there's
Speaker 5: like posters in the background and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you, because obviously we're comedians. We there's
Speaker 1: something about us for you that we love. How funny
Speaker 1: it is, Like, I mean, it almost has to have
Speaker 1: comedy in it, because otherwise it's it would the subject
Speaker 1: matter would crush you. So how do you how do
Speaker 1: you navigate that? Like, as a writer, are you just like, oh,
Speaker 1: we need to throw a joke in this scene, this
Speaker 1: is like too this is too much, or like how
Speaker 1: do you you know? I'm sure the writers consciously like
Speaker 1: have that in mind, and there's definitely like a voice
Speaker 1: to the show that has a little bit of you
Speaker 1: know that munch or even like in the Mothership the
Speaker 1: Jerry Orbach little quips and stuff, and then you were
Speaker 1: in later seasons with like Barb always has you know,
Speaker 1: some funny lines. Yeah, I was just wondering, how do
Speaker 1: you guys balance that out the heavy stuff and the jokery.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's funny because I've found over the years,
Speaker 5: just hanging out with writers of all stripes that as
Speaker 5: a general rule, drama writers tend to be hysterical and comedy.
Speaker 3: Writers not so much off the clock.
Speaker 5: And I think it's probably because they leave it all
Speaker 5: in the field and because you know, their hours are
Speaker 5: so crushing, and it's you know, like a gladiator, you know,
Speaker 5: match in their writer's.
Speaker 3: Rooms to you know, come up with the best joke.
Speaker 5: But I've done some dark shows and the writers on
Speaker 5: these dark shows tend to be really funny, so it's
Speaker 5: usually not so hard to find the voice of the humor.
Speaker 5: But like you say, it's it really is about where,
Speaker 5: you know, where is it appropriate to have this moment
Speaker 5: and have this joke. The good news is I feel
Speaker 5: like there's enough moments that are kind of outside direct
Speaker 5: victim involvement on the show that it's like, you know,
Speaker 5: you can have those. I mean, especially with Barba, like
Speaker 5: writing for writing for Raoul.
Speaker 3: Is that it's one of the best things I've ever
Speaker 3: done in my life. I love that man. I love
Speaker 3: putting words in his mouth.
Speaker 5: He's crazy, like he's a super well educated like on
Speaker 5: on set when everyone else is just sitting around bullshitting
Speaker 5: looking at their Instagram this and that. It's like he
Speaker 5: would have these like leather bound, dusty books that look
Speaker 5: like they you know, came from you know, a crypt
Speaker 5: of a Latin monastery somewhere, reading that shit for fun
Speaker 5: like nicest chillish dude in the room, but like super smart.
Speaker 5: So yeah, and can memorize just pages of dense legal
Speaker 5: dialogue and just like nail it and give you colors
Speaker 5: and all this stuff. So yeah, so writing a writing
Speaker 5: a Quippi barber line that actually ends up in a
Speaker 5: script that's always like the highest of.
Speaker 3: You know, honor. But you know, all all all those cats,
Speaker 3: I mean, you know careesis.
Speaker 5: Also, I love writing for Skin of you know, because
Speaker 5: you know he can deliver the funny without saying a word.
Speaker 5: You know, he just he just has a look a lot,
Speaker 5: you know, a thing, and then Ice is the quip master,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It's like he's completely quiet.
Speaker 5: Through an entire scene and then you just put that
Speaker 5: Ice button at the end of the scene that like one,
Speaker 5: you know, it's like everyone's talking like all their you know,
Speaker 5: legalistic mumbo jumbo, and then he just nails it like
Speaker 5: that some bullshit and it's like, you know, I think
Speaker 5: the best part of being on that set. I mean
Speaker 5: it's for real, like it is a kind of warm,
Speaker 5: tight family atmosphere. One of the things that I always
Speaker 5: appreciate about Marishko.
Speaker 3: I appreciate a lot of things about Marishka.
Speaker 5: First of all, she you know, this is this is
Speaker 5: her set, her show, and it's the responsibility that she
Speaker 5: doesn't take lightly. And she knows these scripts up down
Speaker 5: in center, and it's always kind of scary as a
Speaker 5: writer when she pulls you aside and wants to ask
Speaker 5: something about the script, because it's like, you know, she's
Speaker 5: found something and you know she's going to have a
Speaker 5: good point and then it's like, oh, I hope I
Speaker 5: didn't screw it up too bad. But on the on
Speaker 5: the other side, you know, but that goes to that
Speaker 5: professionalism you know, because I mean, how many people would
Speaker 5: be phoning it in at this point in time. She's
Speaker 5: absolutely not phoning it in. She brings the intensity, she
Speaker 5: brings the care to the work. But the one thing
Speaker 5: that I always found so lovely about her is that
Speaker 5: whenever there was guest cast, she would make it a
Speaker 5: point to, you know, really bring that person in, make
Speaker 5: sure they were comfortable, kind of get them acclimated, because
Speaker 5: when you think about it, I mean talk about coming
Speaker 5: in on the first day of school, It's like you're
Speaker 5: coming into this well oiled machine.
Speaker 3: Everyone knows everyone, everyone.
Speaker 5: Knows what's going on, and you're this guest actor, you know,
Speaker 5: coming in for a couple of days of work. But
Speaker 5: she never lost sight of their comfort and bringing them in,
Speaker 5: which I thought was really cool. And then Ice, I
Speaker 5: mean that guy, it's literally you want to just be
Speaker 5: sitting at video Village, which are like the director's chairs
Speaker 5: that are kind of around the monitors where the director
Speaker 5: and the script supervisor and you know, the writers sit
Speaker 5: and watch while the show is actually being filmed, and
Speaker 5: usually the actors will hang out there as well if
Speaker 5: they're in the next scene or whatever. And it was
Speaker 5: always the best when Ice would hang out because he
Speaker 5: always had great stories of like back in.
Speaker 3: The day and you know, his.
Speaker 5: Journey and the rap game and this and that, and
Speaker 5: like he always had a philosophy on what was going
Speaker 5: on in the world, and like it was always just
Speaker 5: like I'm just going to sit back and like this
Speaker 5: is going to drop some knowledge and it's going to
Speaker 5: be read.
Speaker 1: So can we ask you, Like this is a little
Speaker 1: bit of a silly question, but just for your we
Speaker 1: just want your opinion. Who do you think is Benson's
Speaker 1: romantic match, Like do you think that I mean, obviously,
Speaker 1: now spoiler he has passed, but Ed Tucker. A lot
Speaker 1: of people liked her with Ed Tucker, obviously Maloney, some
Speaker 1: people wanted her with Barbara, but I personally never saw
Speaker 1: that as a thing with them.
Speaker 3: I mean, do you have any thoughts?
Speaker 5: You know, It's like I don't I don't need the
Speaker 5: Stabler hive coming after me. I mean, you know, you know,
Speaker 5: I value my life.
Speaker 1: No. I think it's actually pretty common for people to
Speaker 1: say that they don't want Benson and Stabler together.
Speaker 3: I don't think people will come for you. Don't worry
Speaker 3: interesting it.
Speaker 1: People are like some people are like make it happen,
Speaker 1: and then other people are like, she deserves better.
Speaker 3: He's toxic. So we get a lot of both sides
Speaker 3: from people.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I got to say I was I was pretty
Speaker 5: sweet on the Tucker of it all. I felt like
Speaker 5: they were a good match. I felt like, you know,
Speaker 5: they'd gone through some stuff, but he learned, he grew,
Speaker 5: and I felt like he was like he wasn't man
Speaker 5: enough for her, like you know.
Speaker 3: It's like Barbara. I feel like that that.
Speaker 5: Could be a fun, fun fling in Paris, you know,
Speaker 5: maybe like a long weekend in Paris with Barbara.
Speaker 3: But yeah, long, long term. I don't know that I
Speaker 3: see that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at the end of your episode, Claudal d Images,
Speaker 1: I think, is that the first time we know that
Speaker 1: there's something with with Tucker and Olivia.
Speaker 3: I believe they link of the arms.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that was you started people down a
Speaker 1: path there. You have a show that you wrote on
Speaker 1: that's on air right now, one is filming and then
Speaker 1: one is in pre production.
Speaker 3: Is that correct? Yeah?
Speaker 5: I let's say sometimes they put the put that pre
Speaker 5: production thing on IMDb. I actually have I have a
Speaker 5: couple pilots I'm working on that are in contention, uh
Speaker 5: for a couple streamers. And yeah, and just wrapped on
Speaker 5: another NBC show called.
Speaker 1: Debris, and that's like more of a sci fi show, right,
Speaker 1: that's that's a sci fi investigation show.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you're still using your like procedural muscles,
Speaker 1: but it's like a little bit more out of this world.
Speaker 3: Yeah it is. It is hell weird. It is Hello weird.
Speaker 3: That show. Oh my god. I love Samantha. I want
Speaker 3: her to be my mentor.
Speaker 2: I love getting inside scoop and I love talking to
Speaker 2: people with amazing work ethics. Like I've really noticed this.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, people are working, and that's why
Speaker 2: they have money. Interesting. Interesting, Like it's almost like correlation,
Speaker 2: but it is. And yeah, she was incredible, and I'm
Speaker 2: also grateful she told us about Jared from Subway.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Let's be honest, that was an exciting not an exciting crime,
Speaker 1: let's like you cut that JK, but a famous, you know,
Speaker 1: in the in the I type crime.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean it's it's one of those.
Speaker 1: It's one of these crimes where like I'm surprised I
Speaker 1: hadn't actually like looked into it more deeply or like
Speaker 1: read a in depth New York Times piece about it
Speaker 1: or something. I just kind of knew in general that
Speaker 1: he was a creep, and I didn't really know any
Speaker 1: of the details.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I can't say I'm glad I know them now, but
Speaker 1: I do know them now, and unfortunately I am craving subway,
Speaker 1: Like I want a tuna sandwich. It could be fake
Speaker 1: tuna and Jim Matts in the bread. I want it
Speaker 1: so bad right now, with pepper jack cheese and those
Speaker 1: little banana peppers, Like, give it to me, I know.
Speaker 1: I'm like part of me is like, if I ever
Speaker 1: give up my almost fourteen year streak as a vegetarian,
Speaker 1: I'm like, will I go straight back to a BMT
Speaker 1: in some way and just eat a stack of Deli
Speaker 1: meat slathered in mayo?
Speaker 3: Wait?
Speaker 2: If you give up vegetarianism, like I want to go
Speaker 2: out and do like burgers or like steak or yeah,
Speaker 2: I would rather Yeah. I don't think cold cut sandwich
Speaker 2: is what you're going to break your vegetarians.
Speaker 3: We You're right, that's not how we're going to celebrate it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, fucking go to Mastros, bitch, No, for sure,
Speaker 1: And I would go to Mastros anyway, because I thought
Speaker 1: their sides are dope.
Speaker 2: I've never been. I've wanted to go because they have
Speaker 2: lobster mashed potatoes.
Speaker 3: Let's go for your birthday. Yeah, I was just about
Speaker 3: to the.
Speaker 1: S Yes, yes, yes, all right, Well, I everywhere we go,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of I am one of those bad people
Speaker 1: that are obsessed with my own birthday and I think
Speaker 1: about it for months and months and months in advance,
Speaker 1: and I'm always like everywhere we go now because every
Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to party here.
Speaker 3: No, here, I want to hear.
Speaker 1: Every patio we've been to is where I want to
Speaker 1: throw my party. But yeah, okay, so what let's get
Speaker 1: into our post mortem for this episode, Like what we
Speaker 1: learned besides, we love Subway again.
Speaker 2: If someone's acting uncharacteristically interested in something, they're guilty, Like
Speaker 2: if I Hank Everrayham always a dick, suddenly he's like
Speaker 2: good work, guys, right, suspicious?
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, if someone's acting off kilter.
Speaker 1: Or nicer or meaner to you out of nowhere, dig deeper,
Speaker 1: do not accept the niceness. Also, Like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is like a lesson, but I guess it's
Speaker 1: kind of it's kind of a good career move to
Speaker 1: hide it if you're married to like the company asshole.
Speaker 1: Like nobody knew Pippa was married to Hank. She just
Speaker 1: kept that quiet for her own image, and it kind
Speaker 1: of worked for until it didn't.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Well, I was also gonna say a horrific post mortem
Speaker 2: moment is you never know who you're married to?
Speaker 1: Do?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Oh God, accept me, I do.
Speaker 1: But yeah, truly, you just never know what someone is
Speaker 1: up to or capable of. Yeah, they could be a
Speaker 1: pedophile or you know, throw you in a wood chipper
Speaker 1: one day. You just never know. That's from forensic files.
Speaker 1: I didn't just pull that out of my own brain.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and famously Fargo the most famous wood shipper
Speaker 1: scene in cinema.
Speaker 3: Fire Go Baby.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I guess, like I mean, like I said,
Speaker 1: we're not here to help you guys get away with crimes,
Speaker 1: but if your co founder of your foundation gets busted,
Speaker 1: you're next get the fucking out of town. Also, if
Speaker 1: you're not getting a deal, but he did get a deal,
Speaker 1: I guess, always a deal to be made, always a
Speaker 1: deal to be made, fucking deal man. Yeah, you could
Speaker 1: be watching nineteen hours of child sex abuse images and
Speaker 1: still get a deal. So whether you're at a car
Speaker 1: dealership or anywhere, just keep that in mind. Hank Abraham
Speaker 1: got it concurrently, not consecutively. So fight, fight for your
Speaker 1: right get a free will change. I mean, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: crazy also because it's like it's not even like not
Speaker 1: only do you not know who you're married to, but
Speaker 1: like you don't know who any famous person is. You
Speaker 1: don't know what famous people like or spokespeople or whatever.
Speaker 1: Like I mean, he was famous, he had a certain
Speaker 1: degree of famous, this certain as this. He's like this
Speaker 1: guy next door with this weight loss success story who's
Speaker 1: a full pedophile. So you know, just be careful, don't
Speaker 1: idolize celebrity. It's the guys with the huge pants you
Speaker 1: gotta watch. As they always say.
Speaker 2: Also, change your passwords up for your child porn sites. Yeah, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: my legal of age porn site that I subscribe to.
Speaker 3: My screen name is glitter Cheese And I'm like, why
Speaker 3: did I do that? Go everybody go final Liza on
Speaker 3: porn Hub or whatever.
Speaker 1: Now I'm a, yeah, no, I have another site. I'll
Speaker 1: keep that secret. I usually tell everyone. I bet on one,
Speaker 1: I bet you could guess, but I am glater. She
Speaker 1: is on my porn website.
Speaker 3: Oh and I do well.
Speaker 2: This reminds me I do have a new pornhub joke
Speaker 2: that's kind of been a hit. I am doing stand
Speaker 2: up again, and I will be in Philly June twenty four, five,
Speaker 2: twenty three through twenty five.
Speaker 1: That weekend, I'm there like Thursday through Saturday at the
Speaker 1: Punchline in Philly.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I'm really excited I'll be in Philly.
Speaker 2: I have This will be my first time doing a
Speaker 2: weekend since March, like sixth and seventh in North Carolina,
Speaker 2: March twenty twenty, so I've been working hard getting getting
Speaker 2: it all together.
Speaker 1: Lisa is a singular talent on the stand up stage.
Speaker 1: You guys, I'm serious, Like, if you like her on
Speaker 1: this podcast, you're gonna love her doing stand ups. So
Speaker 1: go get if you live within a four hour radius
Speaker 1: of Philadelphia, drive yourself there.
Speaker 3: Get tickets at the Punchline.
Speaker 1: And I didn't want to say this about myself, but
Speaker 1: it is going to be a special night back because
Speaker 1: it is going to be my first weekend. So you
Speaker 1: will see, like I'll be tight and desperate laughs, but
Speaker 1: also have sheets and need to do crowd work. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and she'll be like happy for you to buy her
Speaker 1: a drink at the end of the night. Well I'm
Speaker 1: not drinking, hello, I should be you and drink at
Speaker 1: your first show back. No, you're right, I'll have a
Speaker 1: whiskey in Philly. But I just I've been in New York.
Speaker 1: I have like eight espresso Martiniz a day. I was like,
Speaker 1: I should like chill out, but you're right. I will
Speaker 1: be drinking in Philly.
Speaker 2: I'll also be in Dave and Buster's Wednesday night for
Speaker 2: half priced game night, So if you are a Dave
Speaker 2: and Busters fan, I will be playing.
Speaker 1: So you've known me to stalk Lisa. She's letting you
Speaker 1: know where she is every day. And I will be
Speaker 1: having a Philly cheese steak one day too. I mean,
Speaker 1: I can't wait. I like American cheese over cheese with Philly.
Speaker 1: Let me know how you feel about that.
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 1: Well, you know what This is a seamless transition into
Speaker 1: our weekly segment What would Sister Peg Do, where we
Speaker 1: direct you towards resources or organizations that can help you
Speaker 1: learn more or understand more about an issue we talked
Speaker 1: about in today's episode. Today, we're going to just direct you,
Speaker 1: guys to a New York Times article about child sexual
Speaker 1: abuse images, and it's just a very interesting article that
Speaker 1: sort of talks about how we got here with why
Speaker 1: the Internet is completely overrun with images like this, and
Speaker 1: we will have that in our what would Sister Peg
Speaker 1: Do Instagram story highlight where you can find all of
Speaker 1: our past what would Sister Peg Do segments and you'll
Speaker 1: be able to swipe up and read the article from there.
Speaker 3: Also, it's in our show notes.
Speaker 2: So next week's episode, we will be covering Smut season ten,
Speaker 2: episode ten ten ten, maybe ten's.
Speaker 3: Across the book.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I know we did not cover the Raleasi
Speaker 1: what is it? Yes, the Releasi moment, the Releasy kiss.
Speaker 1: It's because I am behind. I'm catching up. I I'm
Speaker 1: watching too much Top Model. I've watched three seasons in
Speaker 1: one week. No, I but I know what happened. I
Speaker 1: saw the photos. I cannot wait to watch the kiss
Speaker 1: and MASTERB. So we'll talk about it soon. Kara has
Speaker 1: watched it. I'm sorry to disappoint everyone. I'm trying my best.
Speaker 1: We'll have a hot take on it next week, guys,
Speaker 1: So just stay with us.
Speaker 3: Okay, we'll see you guys next week. That's Messed Up
Speaker 3: as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Clank.
Speaker 3: And at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our
Speaker 2: incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kragon.
Speaker 1: And to our sound engineer and personal hero Anali Snilson, and.
Speaker 3: To Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly Jean
Speaker 3: Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgarriff, Danielle Kramer,
Speaker 1: and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're an advertiser
Speaker 2: interested in advertising on our show, go to midroll dot
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