WEBVTT - Iran Contra: Episode 4 - Diverted 0:00:16.271 --> 0:00:31.511 Pushkin. Oliver North had no formal training in covert operations. 0:00:32.351 --> 0:00:36.391 He had never seriously studied diplomacy either, or international relations 0:00:36.511 --> 0:00:40.431 or political science. He was a soldier. So when he 0:00:40.431 --> 0:00:44.231 found himself in charge of two top secret foreign policy programs, 0:00:44.591 --> 0:00:47.711 one in Nicaragua, the other in Iran, he kind of 0:00:47.711 --> 0:00:51.870 had to make it up as he went along. In Nicaragua, 0:00:52.271 --> 0:00:55.231 North was counting on Contra rebel leaders to allocate the 0:00:55.271 --> 0:00:58.791 millions of dollars he was raising on their behalf. Remember, 0:00:58.831 --> 0:01:01.791 the CIA had been forced by Congress to stop helping 0:01:01.791 --> 0:01:05.711 the Contras. Now in their absence, it seemed like a 0:01:05.711 --> 0:01:10.111 lot of money was being wasted or worse stolen. 0:01:10.351 --> 0:01:14.351 The problem was the Contress didn't know how to run 0:01:14.551 --> 0:01:17.751 their war. They were very bad managers. 0:01:17.951 --> 0:01:21.311 This is journalist Doyle McManus. You've heard from him before. 0:01:22.071 --> 0:01:24.471 He covered the Contra war for the Los Angeles Times 0:01:24.711 --> 0:01:28.591 and co authored a book about the Reagan administration called Landslide. 0:01:28.671 --> 0:01:32.591 The weapons were piling up in warehouses in Miami. The 0:01:32.671 --> 0:01:37.191 Contress had no reliable way to ship them to the battlefield, 0:01:37.431 --> 0:01:40.871 and there were persistent reports that there was corruption going on, 0:01:40.991 --> 0:01:44.631 that the Contras were either taking kickbacks from arms, merchants 0:01:44.751 --> 0:01:47.071 or just skimming money off the top. 0:01:48.391 --> 0:01:52.191 Oliver North and his superiors needed more control in Nicaragua, 0:01:52.431 --> 0:01:54.631 and they no longer wanted to rely on people they 0:01:54.671 --> 0:01:57.871 couldn't trust, so they enlisted the help of someone they 0:01:57.871 --> 0:02:00.951 could count on and who had the experience that North lacked. 0:02:02.111 --> 0:02:03.831 His name was Richard Seacord. 0:02:04.551 --> 0:02:09.471 Richard Seacord had precisely the expertise that Ali North and 0:02:09.550 --> 0:02:13.591 the Contra needed. He knew how to move equipment from 0:02:13.591 --> 0:02:16.991 one country to another in airplanes secretly. 0:02:17.871 --> 0:02:21.391 Richard Seacord was a retired Air Force general. He was 0:02:21.431 --> 0:02:25.191 known for his extensive experience with covert operations and as 0:02:25.231 --> 0:02:27.710 a strong believer in giving the president broad powers to 0:02:27.791 --> 0:02:31.591 undertake them. For his master's thesis at the Naval War College, 0:02:32.191 --> 0:02:35.231 Seacord wrote that when it came to covert ops, quote, 0:02:35.631 --> 0:02:40.270 bureaucratic obstacles should be dismissed out of hand. After carrying 0:02:40.311 --> 0:02:44.151 out secret missions in Vietnam and Laos, Seacords served in 0:02:44.151 --> 0:02:48.551 the Department of Defense. Then in nineteen eighty three he 0:02:48.671 --> 0:02:51.351 was forced to retire from government service under a cloud 0:02:51.391 --> 0:02:54.431 of scandal when one of his associates was convicted of 0:02:54.431 --> 0:02:57.991 illegally selling plastic explosives to Muimar Kadafi. 0:02:57.911 --> 0:03:00.911 Of interest to the Grand Jury. Sources say Major General 0:03:00.991 --> 0:03:04.671 Richard Seacord, a deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense. 0:03:04.551 --> 0:03:08.150 With his career in Washington cut short. Seacord went into 0:03:08.151 --> 0:03:10.711 the private sector fascination, and while some of his former 0:03:10.751 --> 0:03:13.031 colleagues and government viewed him with suspicion due to the 0:03:13.071 --> 0:03:15.871 Kadafi scandal, there were those who felt he had been 0:03:15.951 --> 0:03:18.951 unfairly tarnished by it. Among them was the director of 0:03:18.991 --> 0:03:22.071 the CIA, who suggested to Oliver North that he brings 0:03:22.111 --> 0:03:23.951 Seacord in to help with the Contra war. 0:03:24.631 --> 0:03:28.791 I was asked if I could help out logistically keeping 0:03:29.551 --> 0:03:31.871 the contras in the field resupplied. 0:03:32.391 --> 0:03:36.111 I interviewed Major General Richard Seacoord in Florida in twenty nineteen. 0:03:36.791 --> 0:03:38.151 He died in twenty twenty four. 0:03:39.151 --> 0:03:42.311 They were next to Despert, you know, they knew that 0:03:42.831 --> 0:03:44.951 I knew Air and so forth, and so that was 0:03:44.991 --> 0:03:45.831 the beginning of it. 0:03:46.911 --> 0:03:49.391 In the summer of nineteen eighty five, about a year 0:03:49.431 --> 0:03:52.591 after Congress forced the CIA to stop funding the contras, 0:03:53.151 --> 0:03:55.911 Seacord and a business partner created a Swiss bank account 0:03:55.911 --> 0:03:59.231 to hold money being donated to the Contra cause. Using 0:03:59.231 --> 0:04:02.391 that money, Sea Court set about building a resupply operation 0:04:02.511 --> 0:04:05.911 for the Contras from scratch. That meant putting together what 0:04:05.991 --> 0:04:10.071 was essentially a mini CIA, or at least a mini airline. 0:04:10.151 --> 0:04:12.911 The operation required Seacord to buy a fleet of small 0:04:12.951 --> 0:04:16.510 planes and organize a network of airstrips near the Nicaraguan border. 0:04:17.070 --> 0:04:20.190 He jokingly called it Air Contra. It wasn't action hero 0:04:20.271 --> 0:04:22.551 type work, but it was exactly the kind of work 0:04:22.591 --> 0:04:23.591 Seacord was good at. 0:04:24.151 --> 0:04:28.671 Logistics are the senews of war military history writers going back. 0:04:28.711 --> 0:04:32.751 I know is far as Napoleon's time, right about that, 0:04:33.231 --> 0:04:36.271 but people tend to forget it because it's not very glamorous. 0:04:37.551 --> 0:04:41.551 The logistics is the chore. It's the long pole in 0:04:41.591 --> 0:04:41.951 that tent. 0:04:43.711 --> 0:04:46.510 A few months after Seacord started working with the Contras, 0:04:46.951 --> 0:04:49.231 Oliver North came to him for help with another matter, 0:04:49.951 --> 0:04:52.751 the White House's secret program to sell arms to Iran. 0:04:53.951 --> 0:04:57.431 As you heard in episode two, Ronald Reagan had approved 0:04:57.471 --> 0:04:59.551 the sale of missiles to Iran as part of an 0:04:59.591 --> 0:05:03.991 effort to free American hostages in Beirut. The administration was 0:05:03.991 --> 0:05:07.070 relying on Israel to serve as a go between, meaning 0:05:07.151 --> 0:05:10.351 Israel would sell American made weapons to Iran and then 0:05:10.391 --> 0:05:13.231 get their stocks replenished by the US Department of Defense. 0:05:14.111 --> 0:05:17.991 But the Israelis were making mistakes. In November of nineteen 0:05:18.031 --> 0:05:21.031 eighty five, a shipment of missiles to Iran had ended 0:05:21.031 --> 0:05:24.271 in disaster after Israel fumbled just about every aspect of 0:05:24.271 --> 0:05:27.031 the delivery. Here's Doyle McManus again. 0:05:27.591 --> 0:05:31.111 The Israeli plane got stuck in Portugal. The Portuguese couldn't 0:05:31.151 --> 0:05:33.390 figure out what this shipment was or why they should 0:05:33.511 --> 0:05:36.390 let it go through. A CIA plane had to be 0:05:36.471 --> 0:05:40.111 called in to take the arms to Iran. And when 0:05:40.191 --> 0:05:44.190 the Iranians opened the shipment, they were very unhappy because 0:05:44.231 --> 0:05:48.071 there weren't as many missiles as they expected. They were 0:05:48.071 --> 0:05:50.991 the wrong model, and some of the missiles even had 0:05:51.311 --> 0:05:53.950 the Israeli Star of David on them, and so the 0:05:53.991 --> 0:05:59.311 Iranians erupted in fury and refused to release any hostages 0:05:59.391 --> 0:05:59.791 at all. 0:06:02.671 --> 0:06:06.151 Oliver North briefed his boss, John Poindexter on what had 0:06:06.191 --> 0:06:11.630 gone wrong. Poindexter was Reagan's new National security advisor. In 0:06:11.671 --> 0:06:14.911 a memo, North acknowledged that the Iran initiative was a mess, 0:06:15.471 --> 0:06:18.111 but he argued we are now so far down the 0:06:18.151 --> 0:06:21.991 road that stopping could have even more serious repercussions. In 0:06:22.031 --> 0:06:25.631 a follow up memo to Poindexter titled Next Steps, North 0:06:25.671 --> 0:06:28.471 proposed they cut Israel out of the deal and sell 0:06:28.511 --> 0:06:31.791 the weapons to Iran themselves, bringing in Richard Seacord as 0:06:31.791 --> 0:06:34.311 the middleman. So that's what they did. 0:06:34.791 --> 0:06:37.190 We're running a successful air up down there. Why not 0:06:37.351 --> 0:06:42.151 this one? Yeah? And I guess point to extra figured 0:06:42.191 --> 0:06:45.831 that good old Dick Secord, the can't do guy. He'll 0:06:45.871 --> 0:06:46.591 get her done. 0:06:48.391 --> 0:06:48.671 With that. 0:06:49.111 --> 0:06:54.151 Seacord's responsibilities expanded. In addition to managing money and supplies 0:06:54.191 --> 0:06:57.831 for the Contras, this private citizen would now also be 0:06:57.911 --> 0:07:03.070 facilitating the sale of American weapons to Iran. This was 0:07:03.111 --> 0:07:05.871 the moment when the twin Engine scandal, now known as 0:07:05.911 --> 0:07:12.071 Iran Contra took off. I'm Leon Nahan from Prologue Projects 0:07:12.111 --> 0:07:15.991 and Pushkin Industries. This is fiasco Iran Contra. 0:07:16.231 --> 0:07:19.191 The issue is back paid for the Contras fighting the 0:07:19.231 --> 0:07:20.311 Nicaraguan government. 0:07:20.351 --> 0:07:22.871 North was very excited he had pulled it off. 0:07:22.911 --> 0:07:24.871 His secret visit to TAYHRANI. 0:07:24.631 --> 0:07:26.311 These kinds of escapades. 0:07:26.351 --> 0:07:28.991 He and had suicide pills and I had nothing. 0:07:29.111 --> 0:07:32.191 I was very convinced the President would agree it was 0:07:32.551 --> 0:07:33.471 the right thing to do. 0:07:33.671 --> 0:07:36.031 The President has thrown himself into this battle. 0:07:36.151 --> 0:07:39.191 I was going to go ahead and tell them my story. 0:07:42.431 --> 0:07:47.671 Episode four diverted, how Oliver North and Richard Seacord put 0:07:47.671 --> 0:07:51.191 the hyphen in Iran Contra, and how North ended up 0:07:51.231 --> 0:07:52.471 on a plane to Tehran. 0:07:55.111 --> 0:07:55.871 We'll be right back. 0:08:01.751 --> 0:08:04.431 In order to build the resupply operation for the Contras, 0:08:05.071 --> 0:08:07.671 Richard Seacord needed to hire a crew of airmen who 0:08:07.671 --> 0:08:10.151 could fly planes and knew how to make air drops. 0:08:11.191 --> 0:08:14.551 In December of nineteen eighty five, the word reached Ian Crawford, 0:08:14.911 --> 0:08:16.991 a soft spoken twenty nine year old who had served 0:08:16.991 --> 0:08:20.471 as part of the Army's elite Delta Force Unit. Crawford 0:08:20.471 --> 0:08:23.791 had recently returned to civilian life in Fayetteville, North Carolina, 0:08:24.431 --> 0:08:27.551 and he had started a business sowing custom vests, backpacks, 0:08:27.551 --> 0:08:28.831 and other military. 0:08:28.391 --> 0:08:33.151 Equipment and out of the field blue. At a New 0:08:33.231 --> 0:08:37.591 Year's Eve party, somebody is talking to my mother in law, 0:08:37.631 --> 0:08:42.271 of all people, and this person said that they needed 0:08:42.751 --> 0:08:47.590 to find some ex military people with a parachute background. 0:08:48.070 --> 0:08:52.030 Crawford just happened to be a certified parachute specialist, so 0:08:52.070 --> 0:08:53.511 his mother in law put him in touch with the 0:08:53.511 --> 0:08:55.631 guy from the party, who in turn put him in 0:08:55.631 --> 0:08:58.191 touch with a guy in Washington who worked for Richard Seacoord. 0:08:59.151 --> 0:09:00.830 That guy offered Crawford a job. 0:09:01.590 --> 0:09:04.751 He told me, I was going to air drop equipment 0:09:05.271 --> 0:09:09.630 to a newly formed group somewhere in the world he 0:09:09.670 --> 0:09:13.030 wouldn't tell me, and that I was being hired for 0:09:13.231 --> 0:09:16.310 my parachute and air drop specialties. 0:09:17.950 --> 0:09:21.550 A few months later, Crawford boarded a southbound plane packed 0:09:21.550 --> 0:09:26.190 with military fatigues, jungle boots, and tents. When the plane landed, 0:09:26.391 --> 0:09:29.710 he found himself standing on a dirt airstrip in Honduras. 0:09:30.151 --> 0:09:33.871 He had arrived at Aguacat, a bare bones military encampment 0:09:33.910 --> 0:09:36.790 that was being used as part of Secord's new resupply operation. 0:09:37.670 --> 0:09:43.871 When we finally landed in Awacati, Honduras, we knew that 0:09:43.950 --> 0:09:48.670 we were in a contract camp. It was a confined, 0:09:50.030 --> 0:09:55.351 primitive and secret base. The Hondurans knew about it, but 0:09:55.950 --> 0:09:59.431 they didn't want to advertise that they were allowing the 0:09:59.511 --> 0:10:02.310 contries to be on their side of the border. 0:10:04.111 --> 0:10:07.351 When Crawford first got to Aguacata, there was just one 0:10:07.391 --> 0:10:11.030 plane available to fly missions. It was a C seven 0:10:11.151 --> 0:10:15.431 Cariboo cargo plane, the same kind that was used in Vietnam. 0:10:15.751 --> 0:10:19.111 Soon you will be flying the C seven a Cariboo 0:10:19.430 --> 0:10:21.791 in remote, underdeveloped areas of the world. 0:10:22.391 --> 0:10:25.231 Crawford's job was to help the contras pack supplies into 0:10:25.231 --> 0:10:29.151 bundles and load them onto the Cariboo. Inside the bundles 0:10:29.190 --> 0:10:33.631 was a mix of food, ammunition, grenades, rockets, mortar shells, 0:10:33.670 --> 0:10:37.111 and AK forty sevens. Crawford would use a forklift to 0:10:37.111 --> 0:10:39.751 get them into the Cariboo, then line them up side 0:10:39.751 --> 0:10:43.111 by side and attach parachutes to them. Then he would 0:10:43.111 --> 0:10:45.310 take a seat as the plane took off for Nicaragua. 0:10:46.271 --> 0:10:50.391 Short primitive runways hacked from the jungle and desolate terrain 0:10:50.590 --> 0:10:53.231 make these parts of the world Cariboo country. 0:10:54.590 --> 0:10:58.910 I would fly in the back of the aircraft. We'd 0:10:58.950 --> 0:11:02.910 fly for twenty or thirty minutes to a drop zone. 0:11:03.190 --> 0:11:05.751 The pilot flying the Cariboo would get down as low 0:11:05.790 --> 0:11:08.551 as possible over the drop zones, which were located over 0:11:08.631 --> 0:11:12.670 sandbars in the Rio Cocoa. Contraforces would then pick up 0:11:12.670 --> 0:11:13.271 the supplies. 0:11:14.151 --> 0:11:17.470 If no airstrip exists or it is under enemy fire, 0:11:17.991 --> 0:11:20.831 a personnel drop maybe the only way to reinforce a 0:11:20.871 --> 0:11:22.590 Special Forces camp, and. 0:11:22.590 --> 0:11:26.391 I'd take a very large knife and cut a nylon 0:11:26.631 --> 0:11:31.991 strap that was holding these bundles back, and the pilot 0:11:32.030 --> 0:11:36.631 would raise the aircraft nose up and the bundles would 0:11:36.751 --> 0:11:38.430 roll out the back of the aircraft. 0:11:39.430 --> 0:11:43.111 Sometimes as the caribou flew over the jungle, Crawford would 0:11:43.151 --> 0:11:44.991 sit with his legs dangling from the back of the 0:11:44.991 --> 0:11:53.711 aircraft and watch for Sandinista helicopters. It was dangerous work. 0:11:54.550 --> 0:11:57.671 The threat of being shot down was real, but Crawford 0:11:57.670 --> 0:12:00.190 and his crew were also worried about their own plane 0:12:00.231 --> 0:12:01.030 giving out on them. 0:12:01.430 --> 0:12:07.471 And there were actually holes in the dashboard where gauges 0:12:07.511 --> 0:12:11.271 had been taken out and sent back for maintenance, and 0:12:11.430 --> 0:12:15.910 we were all kind of shocked at the level of 0:12:15.950 --> 0:12:18.151 maintenance that the aircraft actually needed. 0:12:18.790 --> 0:12:21.510 Crawford chucked this up to penny pinching by the operation's 0:12:21.590 --> 0:12:24.310 top brass, and he wasn't happy about it. 0:12:24.910 --> 0:12:31.711 Management was trying to cut corners, spend the least amount 0:12:31.710 --> 0:12:36.511 of money to get whatever mission done the cheapest possible. 0:12:37.190 --> 0:12:39.991 When I asked Seacort about this, he flatly rejected the 0:12:40.030 --> 0:12:41.830 notion that his planes were in poor condition. 0:12:42.351 --> 0:12:46.670 Those airplanes were well equipped and being operated by a 0:12:46.670 --> 0:12:49.551 professional airmen who knew what the hell they were doing, 0:12:49.991 --> 0:12:51.751 which is why we had him. 0:12:52.111 --> 0:12:56.071 That's at least half true, as Seacoorts top operations manager 0:12:56.070 --> 0:12:59.991 would later testify, the airmen's Seacorts Company had recruited were 0:13:00.190 --> 0:13:02.951 fortunately the kinds of guys that could put together an 0:13:02.991 --> 0:13:07.511 operating aircraft with baling wire and chewing gum. In any event, 0:13:07.830 --> 0:13:11.470 there's no question that Seacord's budget was modest. As far 0:13:11.471 --> 0:13:14.991 as he was concerned, the resupply operation was only viable 0:13:15.030 --> 0:13:19.071 as a short term proposition. At some point the CIA 0:13:19.111 --> 0:13:21.310 would have to step back into the role it played 0:13:21.351 --> 0:13:23.230 before the Boland Amendment made it illegal. 0:13:23.830 --> 0:13:26.070 My belief was it was just a short term, a 0:13:26.151 --> 0:13:31.711 stopgap operation, a bridging operation. It became a bridge too far. 0:13:35.070 --> 0:13:38.590 Oliver North was feeling the pressure too. I'm not complaining, 0:13:38.670 --> 0:13:40.391 and you know that I love the work, he wrote 0:13:40.430 --> 0:13:42.951 to John Poindexter, but we have to lift some of 0:13:42.991 --> 0:13:44.750 this onto the CIA so that I can get more 0:13:44.751 --> 0:13:47.870 than two or three hours of sleep at night. Unfortunately 0:13:47.871 --> 0:13:51.310 for North, the CIA could not step back into Nicaragua 0:13:51.631 --> 0:13:55.151 unless Congress changed its mind about funding the Contras, and 0:13:55.190 --> 0:13:57.231 that didn't seem like it was in the cards, at 0:13:57.310 --> 0:14:01.190 least not yet. By the end of nineteen eighty five, 0:14:01.670 --> 0:14:04.590 the Contra aid program and the Iran weapons program were 0:14:04.590 --> 0:14:07.830 being managed by the same group of people. Oliver North 0:14:07.871 --> 0:14:09.951 was running the day to day with supervision from that 0:14:10.190 --> 0:14:14.151 security advisor John Poindexter, and Richard Seacord, the Air Force 0:14:14.190 --> 0:14:18.230 general turned arms deer, was overseeing logistics, procuring the weapons, 0:14:18.310 --> 0:14:21.230 and moving the money. All three of them had their 0:14:21.271 --> 0:14:26.631 own set of motivations, particularly when it came to Iran. North, 0:14:26.671 --> 0:14:28.751 by his own account, was dead set on bringing the 0:14:28.751 --> 0:14:31.710 hostages back from Beirut because he knew how strongly the 0:14:31.751 --> 0:14:34.830 President felt about it. North declined to be interviewed for 0:14:34.871 --> 0:14:37.551 this podcast, but here's how he explained himself. In nineteen 0:14:37.590 --> 0:14:38.311 eighty seven. 0:14:38.671 --> 0:14:41.751 The President very clearly articulated in the meetings I was 0:14:42.151 --> 0:14:45.031 in with him in the Oval Office on this issue. 0:14:45.311 --> 0:14:47.751 It was very clear that the President wanted as many 0:14:47.791 --> 0:14:51.031 Americans home, all of them home, as fast as possible. 0:14:51.871 --> 0:14:55.830 Richard Seacord had more personal reasons for getting involved. One 0:14:55.871 --> 0:14:58.830 of them was surely financial. He and his partner stood 0:14:58.830 --> 0:15:01.871 to make millions of dollars and commissions. But there was 0:15:01.871 --> 0:15:06.111 something else too. Remember, Seacord's career in the intelligence community 0:15:06.191 --> 0:15:09.471 had been cut short by scandal. He thought that helping 0:15:09.511 --> 0:15:11.831 out with the operation could help him get back in 0:15:11.871 --> 0:15:12.271 the fold. 0:15:12.830 --> 0:15:17.031 I was thinking about the possibility of taking over the CIA, 0:15:18.231 --> 0:15:21.951 no question about that. That was the right age, They 0:15:21.951 --> 0:15:24.831 had the right background. I would not have taken a 0:15:24.911 --> 0:15:29.311 job by than the director, but they needed some operator 0:15:30.271 --> 0:15:34.311 to run that place, and not a bunch of shoe clerks. 0:15:34.951 --> 0:15:37.751 So that's at least part of what was driving sea Cord. 0:15:38.991 --> 0:15:42.431 Then there was John Poindexter, who inherited the Iran initiative 0:15:42.431 --> 0:15:47.231 from his predecessor, Bud McFarlane. Poindexter's reasons for continuing to 0:15:47.271 --> 0:15:51.631 pursue the program have remained remarkably consistent over time. As 0:15:51.671 --> 0:15:54.551 he told me in late twenty nineteen, he saw the 0:15:54.551 --> 0:15:57.031 decision to sell weapons to Iran as part of the 0:15:57.071 --> 0:15:59.791 Reagan administration's plan to win the Cold War. 0:16:00.751 --> 0:16:05.591 I ran, from a geographic standpoint, occupies a very important 0:16:05.631 --> 0:16:07.271 position in the Middle East. 0:16:07.951 --> 0:16:09.431 This is John Poindexter. 0:16:10.031 --> 0:16:13.911 There on the east side of the what used to 0:16:13.951 --> 0:16:18.470 be called the Persian Gulf, and at the end the 0:16:18.511 --> 0:16:21.791 south end of the Gulf are the straits of Hormus, 0:16:22.791 --> 0:16:26.671 which is a very narrow body of water that connects 0:16:27.151 --> 0:16:30.990 the Gulf to the Indian Ocean. So the Soviet Union 0:16:31.031 --> 0:16:36.911 has always wanted access to the Indian Ocean, and one 0:16:36.951 --> 0:16:40.711 way for them to get that is to develop a 0:16:40.751 --> 0:16:43.671 cooperative relationship with Iran. 0:16:44.471 --> 0:16:48.071 Poindexter believed that in the long run, Iran would probably 0:16:48.191 --> 0:16:51.111 end up aligning itself with either the United States or 0:16:51.151 --> 0:16:54.831 the Soviet Union. Even though the Komanian regime was fiercely 0:16:54.871 --> 0:16:59.350 anti American, Establishing a diplomatic opening with more moderate elements 0:16:59.351 --> 0:17:01.871 in the Iranian government was a way to make sure 0:17:01.911 --> 0:17:04.151 the United States came out on top in a post 0:17:04.191 --> 0:17:04.991 Komani world. 0:17:05.391 --> 0:17:09.031 We always thought that eventually there would be some kind 0:17:09.071 --> 0:17:14.711 of transition in Iran as Amede whenever he died, and 0:17:14.991 --> 0:17:19.470 it would have been foolish for us to think that 0:17:19.511 --> 0:17:24.631 the Soviet Union was not also interested in some future 0:17:24.711 --> 0:17:30.511 transition of the Iranian government. And it has never been 0:17:30.590 --> 0:17:35.590 in our strategic interest that the Soviet Union would gain 0:17:35.711 --> 0:17:37.830 that foothold in the Middle East. 0:17:38.951 --> 0:17:42.390 Later, when the Iran Contra scandal exploded into public view, 0:17:42.991 --> 0:17:46.430 Poindexter's high minded rationale for the weapons sales was buried 0:17:46.511 --> 0:17:50.071 under the simpler, more unsavory explanation that the White House 0:17:50.071 --> 0:17:53.191 had been trying to buy back hostages by paying ransom 0:17:53.271 --> 0:17:57.791 to terrorists, which explanation you believe comes down to how 0:17:57.870 --> 0:18:01.470 much credit you're willing to give the Reagan administration. But 0:18:01.830 --> 0:18:06.110 as even Poindexter concedes, the person who authorized the arm shipments, 0:18:06.471 --> 0:18:08.511 the only person who had the power to do so, 0:18:08.951 --> 0:18:11.031 was pretty clear about what was driving him. 0:18:11.791 --> 0:18:17.630 The President was probably more interested in the short term 0:18:17.830 --> 0:18:23.670 objectives than the long term objectives. So I've convinced that 0:18:23.751 --> 0:18:26.511 he believed in what we were trying to do, but 0:18:26.590 --> 0:18:31.830 he probably, in hindsight, did put more emphasis on the hostages. 0:18:33.191 --> 0:18:36.311 This question of who was motivated by what takes on 0:18:36.511 --> 0:18:39.430 even more significance when you consider how badly the Iran 0:18:39.471 --> 0:18:41.870 initiative was going By the start of nineteen eighty six. 0:18:43.350 --> 0:18:47.751 The White House's key Iranian contact, Minuture Garboni Phar, had 0:18:47.791 --> 0:18:51.991 revealed himself to be erratic and unreliable. The moderates Gorbonifar 0:18:52.110 --> 0:18:54.990 was supposedly speaking for had given no indication that they 0:18:54.991 --> 0:18:59.590 even existed. On multiple occasions, the US had sent Iran weapons, 0:18:59.630 --> 0:19:01.830 only to have the terms of the deal change in 0:19:01.830 --> 0:19:05.991 the middle and yet the negotiations continued, just as Bud 0:19:06.031 --> 0:19:10.511 McFarlane had feared they would. From the outside, and with 0:19:10.590 --> 0:19:12.991 the benefit of hindsight, you look at all these red 0:19:12.991 --> 0:19:16.711 flags and think, how could this have continued? How could 0:19:16.711 --> 0:19:20.230 Poindexter and North and Reagan all have convinced themselves that 0:19:20.271 --> 0:19:23.470 this was a good idea? I think the answer probably 0:19:23.511 --> 0:19:25.430 lies and what drove each of them to pursue it 0:19:25.471 --> 0:19:28.910 in the first place. Whatever it was, it seems to 0:19:28.951 --> 0:19:31.951 have made them all either giddy with optimism or deluded 0:19:32.031 --> 0:19:41.071 by desperation. Not long into John Poindexter's tenure as National 0:19:41.071 --> 0:19:44.670 Security Advisor, the determination was made that the US needed 0:19:44.711 --> 0:19:48.471 to speak directly with the Iranian moderates that Manuchaerir Gurbanifhar 0:19:48.590 --> 0:19:53.871 claimed to represent. After months of negotiation, North and Gurbanifhar 0:19:54.071 --> 0:19:57.511 finalized plans for an in person meeting between senior American 0:19:57.551 --> 0:19:59.910 officials and a group of high ranking members of the 0:19:59.951 --> 0:20:03.311 Iranian government. The meeting would take place in a hotel 0:20:03.390 --> 0:20:04.590 room in Tehran. 0:20:05.431 --> 0:20:09.711 Because of the importance of establishing some kind of working, 0:20:09.711 --> 0:20:15.110 real life relationship with Iran, it made sense to send 0:20:15.150 --> 0:20:19.510 a delegation to Tehran to try to meet with people 0:20:19.590 --> 0:20:24.511 that we hoped would be moderate and began a dialogue. 0:20:25.071 --> 0:20:28.471 Poindexter's understanding was that this would be the final exchange 0:20:28.471 --> 0:20:32.350 of weapons for hostages. As North explained the agreement to 0:20:32.390 --> 0:20:35.511 Poindexter in a memo, the US delegation would bring a 0:20:35.511 --> 0:20:38.591 load of spare missile parts to Tehran, and the Iranians 0:20:38.630 --> 0:20:40.951 would bring about the release of the hostages still being 0:20:41.031 --> 0:20:45.311 held in Beirut. The American delegation to Tehran would include 0:20:45.431 --> 0:20:48.870 Oliver North, a CIA officer who could serve as a translator, 0:20:49.551 --> 0:20:55.711 and strangely enough, former National Security Advisor Bud McFarlan. McFarlan 0:20:55.751 --> 0:20:57.991 had been out of government for months at this point, 0:20:58.271 --> 0:21:01.231 and as you heard in episode two, he had profound 0:21:01.231 --> 0:21:04.910 misgivings about the Iran initiative. But when Poindexter asked him 0:21:04.951 --> 0:21:07.151 to go to Tehran, McFarlan accepted. 0:21:07.951 --> 0:21:10.350 You know, he sort of was a secret emissary. He 0:21:10.431 --> 0:21:14.911 wasn't in government. He had been a former senior government official, 0:21:15.390 --> 0:21:19.750 so he had credentials and it would be clear to 0:21:19.830 --> 0:21:25.791 the Iranians that this was a presidentially approved mission. So 0:21:25.870 --> 0:21:28.511 Bud was a logical person to go, and so we 0:21:28.590 --> 0:21:29.190 sent him. 0:21:29.911 --> 0:21:32.350 Also along for the trip was a senior staffer from 0:21:32.390 --> 0:21:35.751 the National Security Council named Howard Titcher, an expert on 0:21:35.791 --> 0:21:40.110 the Middle East. Like Poindexter, Tycher saw the arm sales 0:21:40.110 --> 0:21:42.791 as a path to improving relations with Iran in a 0:21:42.791 --> 0:21:45.311 way that would serve the US's long term goal of 0:21:45.350 --> 0:21:47.351 protecting the Middle East from Soviet influence. 0:21:48.711 --> 0:21:51.951 Actually was exciting, you know, this was the chance to 0:21:52.071 --> 0:21:55.751 change the course of history and protect American interest in 0:21:55.791 --> 0:21:59.031 a very fundamental way. And you know, so this was 0:21:59.031 --> 0:22:00.150 a risk worth taking. 0:22:00.951 --> 0:22:04.071 Tycher's wife was more apprehensive. She was a lawyer in 0:22:04.110 --> 0:22:06.430 the State Department, and based on what her husband was 0:22:06.471 --> 0:22:09.830 telling her, she suspected that the arms deal might be illegal. 0:22:10.791 --> 0:22:13.431 She also thought it was possible, if not downright likely, 0:22:13.911 --> 0:22:16.670 that in their quest to free the hostages, her husband 0:22:16.751 --> 0:22:18.630 and the other members of the delegation would end up 0:22:18.630 --> 0:22:20.511 getting kidnapped themselves, you know. 0:22:20.551 --> 0:22:23.910 And I talked to Colonel North about this and he said, 0:22:24.071 --> 0:22:27.630 I want you to know everything's taken care of. And 0:22:27.671 --> 0:22:29.671 I said, so there's a plan, And all he would 0:22:29.671 --> 0:22:32.551 say was, don't worry, everything's taken care of. So he 0:22:32.590 --> 0:22:35.430 did his best to assure me that that was a case. 0:22:35.751 --> 0:22:38.471 That there was some rescue plan in the event that 0:22:38.551 --> 0:22:42.350 we were not allowed to leave, and in the circumstances 0:22:42.350 --> 0:22:45.190 I later learned that he and McFarlane had suicide pills 0:22:45.711 --> 0:22:48.791 and I had nothing. So I presume that was the plan, 0:22:49.551 --> 0:22:51.791 that they would take their lives and the rest of 0:22:51.870 --> 0:22:54.791 us would be left to deal with the Iranians. 0:22:55.590 --> 0:22:59.231 According to Oliver North's memoir, he actually had enough suicide 0:22:59.231 --> 0:23:02.071 pills for everyone, and he got them directly from the 0:23:02.110 --> 0:23:05.791 head of the CIA. That underscore is just how big 0:23:05.830 --> 0:23:08.910 a risk the administration was taking. Who knew what was 0:23:08.951 --> 0:23:12.910 waiting for North, farl And and Titcher in Tehran. There was 0:23:12.951 --> 0:23:15.710 no longer an American embassy there. The country was a 0:23:15.751 --> 0:23:19.470 black box. All the Americans had to go on was 0:23:19.471 --> 0:23:22.990 the word of Manuture or Bonifi, and so far that 0:23:23.031 --> 0:23:24.791 had not proven to be worth very much. 0:23:25.471 --> 0:23:31.031 We hadn't had any kind of a diplomatic approach to 0:23:31.231 --> 0:23:35.071 Iran up to that point that I'm aware of today, 0:23:36.390 --> 0:23:41.430 and so it was momentus to decide to send a mission. 0:23:42.511 --> 0:23:45.710 You know, the odds were not in our favor of 0:23:45.751 --> 0:23:50.151 it working out, but we thought because of the importance 0:23:51.071 --> 0:23:58.191 of returning Iran to a more constructive physician, it was worth. 0:23:57.991 --> 0:24:01.791 The risk, as it happened. Days before North and his 0:24:01.911 --> 0:24:05.071 team embarked on their trip, French officials were working to 0:24:05.110 --> 0:24:07.710 free their citizens who had been kidnapped in Lebanon by 0:24:07.830 --> 0:24:12.031 Islamic militants. According to news report Sort, France was negotiating 0:24:12.031 --> 0:24:12.830 with the Iranians. 0:24:12.991 --> 0:24:15.751 US officials fear of the French willingness to negotiate will 0:24:15.751 --> 0:24:19.871 only harden the kidnappers resolve and encourage others to kidnap 0:24:19.911 --> 0:24:24.471 for ransom. 0:24:24.711 --> 0:24:28.231 The journey to Tehran began Washington's Dallas Airport on May 0:24:28.271 --> 0:24:32.430