1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: This podcast has content that may not be appropriate for 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: all audiences. You'll hear about some difficult subjects like drug abuse, 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: domestic violence, suicidal thoughts, and sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised. 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: Episode two, The Hustler. I think most people would agree 5 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 1: that I'm a hustler. I work hard, I try to 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: always look put together, and I appreciate the finer things 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: in life. But like a lot of other hustlers, I 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 1: wasn't born. I was made, and sure my mom had 9 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: an influence on me growing up, but I really take 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: after my grandma. Picture this, it's the nineteen seventies. Cruising 11 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: through the palmline streets of San Diego, is an elegant 12 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: forty something woman with voluminous, short gold hair like Blanche 13 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: Devereaux a La Golden Girls. It's perfectly done, as it 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: always is, but from the rearview mirror of her brown 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: Classic Chevy Caprice, you can see she's wearing sunglasses like 16 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: a movie star. She's always on the move, driving from 17 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: her suburban home in del Sooul to meetings with business associates, 18 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: mostly men, in dimly lit bars and steakhouses. She's intimidating 19 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: cold to many, but to me all of an affection. 20 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: I relied on my miliche for everything while my mom 21 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: was in her addiction. My midie provided me with stability. 22 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: I'd go along with her on business. She showed me 23 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: how to dress, how to act. I saw how she 24 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 1: ran our family and her business. But one day she 25 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: was arrested and her picture ended up on the front 26 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: page of the San Diego Union Tribune. Even after this, 27 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: she was still my role model. I respected that she 28 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: came from nothing to be the breadwinner for our family, 29 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: and again she always gave me the love and care 30 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: I needed. I missed her dearly, but for my mom 31 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: it was more complicated. My mom and her mom loved 32 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: each other fiercely, but my Militia was controlling, and this 33 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: wasn't the first time she was arrested. It had happened 34 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: before when my mom was. 35 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 2: Just a kid. 36 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: So this episode is about women across generations and how 37 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: we shape each other. It's about my mom and her mom, 38 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: Mamilicha the matriarch, he original hustler. I'm emmy and this 39 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: is crumbs. It's to show all the things we settle 40 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: for and the bits of ourselves that make us who 41 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: we are. What I know about my mom's life is 42 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: that she grew up in San Diego, just like me, 43 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: but unlike me, she's still there. She lives just a 44 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: few miles down the road from where she grew up. 45 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: Her family lived in Delsoul, right by the border with Mexico. 46 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 3: I think the first years of my life, I think 47 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 3: we were kind of poor. I don't know exactly when 48 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 3: Mamilicha started working, but maybe I was around six or seven, 49 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 3: but I always remember having everything. 50 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: When did you realize when you see Mamilita started working? 51 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: When did you realize what she did for a living? 52 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 3: Probably the time when the DEA agents showed up. We 53 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 3: were at the house and I was in my room 54 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 3: watching TV. My mom and dad were in the bedroom 55 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: with the door closed, and we had two beautiful German 56 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 3: Shepherd huskies in the backyard. Our house was all fenced around, 57 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:59,839 Speaker 3: and someone came and knocked at the door. I went 58 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 3: answered the door, and there were some guys from the 59 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 3: gus An Electra company with a clipboard and asked, is 60 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 3: your mom or d at home? And I said yeah. 61 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 3: I closed the door and I went inside to call them. 62 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 3: I went to the room, I opened the door and 63 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 3: my mom shoved something under the bed and looked at 64 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 3: me startled and said, what did I tell you about 65 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 3: opening the door without knocking? And I said, well, there's 66 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 3: someone at the door for you, and I closed the door. 67 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 3: I went back to my room, but by this time 68 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 3: my dogs were barking a lot. So I looked out 69 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 3: the door, the side kitchen door, and I see the 70 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 3: dogs scratching at our fence, and so I go in 71 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 3: the backyard to see what they're barking at. I climb 72 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 3: over the fence and I see our houses surrounded by 73 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 3: men with guns, like literally all lined up on the fence, 74 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 3: and so I screamed, and then they start jumping the 75 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 3: fence over running into our house. By now I'm running 76 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 3: into the house, running towards my parents' room, and one 77 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 3: of them grabbed me in the hallway, and that's when 78 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 3: my dad walked out of the room and he sees 79 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 3: this man holding me, and so my dad attacks the 80 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 3: man and they're fighting, and now there's these two men 81 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 3: attacking him. And at some point I saw some pictures 82 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 3: on the table of drugs and they were arrested, and 83 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 3: then I had to go to court. 84 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 4: For me. 85 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 3: The experience of having to go testify in a courtroom 86 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 3: at the age of maybe ten years old on behalf 87 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 3: of my parents after the federal agents bursted into our house, 88 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 3: after I found out for the first time that my 89 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 3: parents worked for a Mexican drug cartel, and having it 90 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 3: drilled into my head by the attorneys and my parents 91 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 3: that I was a decide in factor whether they went 92 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 3: to prison or not. It was like a huge responsibility 93 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 3: on my shoulders. It was scary, and so I'm in 94 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 3: front of all these people in suits in a courtroom. 95 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: I just can't believe they asked that of a child. 96 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: Were you scared? 97 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 3: My asthma also played a big factor because there was 98 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 3: an asthma attack that I got out of. 99 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 4: You know how scared I was. 100 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 3: I guess I did very well because they didn't go 101 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 3: to prison. I didn't have to go move out or anything. 102 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: So they stayed out of prison and you got to 103 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: stay with them. I know you think of it as 104 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: a good thing, of course, but what kind of home. 105 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 3: My mom was very overbearing, and my dad and her 106 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 3: had a very abusive relationship. My father was an alcoholic, 107 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 3: and my mom was very controlling. My sisters were much older, 108 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 3: so I pretty much grew up by myself. I was 109 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 3: very spoiled. I had everything that a kid could net 110 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 3: or want, except my parents. They were gone a lot. 111 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 4: You know. 112 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 3: I had to get some shots on my arms every 113 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 3: Tuesdays and Thursdays, and they would give me a shot 114 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 3: on each arm for the asthma, right the allergies, and 115 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 3: I would kick and scream. I hated needles. I hated 116 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 3: these shots. So my dad came up with this idea 117 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 3: that if I'll pay you one dollar for every shot 118 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 3: that you let them give, you. 119 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 4: Lost my fear for needles. 120 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: Ironically, Yeah, but you told me your dad wasn't always around. 121 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 3: Right when my parents got arrested, this time, a lot 122 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 3: of other things started making sense in my head, like 123 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 3: the time that my dad was gone for a while. 124 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 3: We would go visit him on weekends, and him and 125 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:29,239 Speaker 3: all the other men that were there wore the same uniform. 126 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 3: And I was told that Papa Vetto was working there 127 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 3: building airplanes or making the seats for the planes, is 128 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 3: what I was told, and so we would. 129 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 4: Go visit him. 130 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 3: I was so proud of my dad because he was 131 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 3: building airplanes, he was making the seats for these airplanes. 132 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 3: And I remember now as an adult, because I've been 133 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 3: in the federal system myself, I know that every year 134 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 3: they have what's called Children's Day in the federal prisons. 135 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 3: We were able to walk around the prison, and I 136 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: remember looking in every building that we walked by and 137 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 3: looking into the windows looking. 138 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 4: For his room. 139 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 3: I wanted to see, well, where's your room, where's your room? 140 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 3: And I saw this weird looking room with some metal 141 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 3: bunk beds, and like, that can't be my dad's room. 142 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 3: So I just ignored it. 143 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: Hearing the stories we tell ourselves when we were little, 144 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: it's cute. I would also make up stories for where 145 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 1: you were. I'd be like, Oh, my mom's in the military, 146 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: that's why she's not here. So this is a story 147 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: that's been repeating across generations of kids dealing with adult 148 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: shit and needing to grow up really fast. So I 149 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: want to jump back in time a little bit to 150 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: talk about mamivi Cha, because she's the beginning of it 151 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: all in a way. She had a crazy life. She 152 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: always took pride in telling me how she started working 153 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: at a young age, and she was always a hustler, 154 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: right like, she was always trying to find the next whatever. 155 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: Since she was little growing up in the Goatlan Jalisco, 156 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: a small town on the outskirts of Wueralajara in Mexico, Mammi. 157 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 3: Licha had a very hard life. I believe she was 158 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 3: four years old when her father died. He was a 159 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 3: soldier in the war, so her mom had to work 160 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 3: selling food at the market, and Mammy Licha had took 161 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 3: on the role of caring for her younger siblings. And 162 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 3: there were times when she was hungry, when her siblings 163 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 3: were hungry, and Mammy Licha went out and did well. 164 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 3: She had to feed these boys while her mother was 165 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 3: off at work, whatever job she had to do to 166 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 3: help her mother to put food on the table for 167 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 3: these boys. And it wasn't until just a few years 168 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 3: before she passed away that I found out that her mother, 169 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 3: my grandmother, wasn't another relationship after her husband died. I 170 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 3: don't know for how long or how serious this relationship was. 171 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 3: I just know that this man is the one that 172 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 3: sexually abused Mammy Lecha when she was about twelve or thirteen. 173 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 3: She gave birth when she was thirteen to her first child, 174 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 3: and she was so naive at the time that she 175 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 3: knew she was pregnant, because people would tell her that 176 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 3: she was pregnant, but she had no idea what giving 177 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 3: birth was. And so when she went in labor, she 178 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 3: just was in a lot of pain. But she didn't 179 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 3: know that there was a baby coming until she went 180 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 3: and told a neighbor, and the neighbor said, no, you 181 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 3: don't have enopset stomach having a baby. After she had 182 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 3: the baby, I'm assuming she had to work to provide 183 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 3: for this baby and herself and by then her two 184 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 3: younger brothers. You know, you just have to kind of 185 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 3: imagine these three kids are home alone every day while 186 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 3: the mom is off working. Maybe a year later or so, 187 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 3: she met this man. I don't know how they met, 188 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 3: but this man and her fell in love, and so 189 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 3: Mammy Lecha moves in with this man, who is sort 190 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 3: of wealthy, good looking, the only child. He lives at 191 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 3: home with his parents. He turns her into a refined lady. 192 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 3: She starts wearing nice clothes and going to nice, fancy restaurants, 193 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 3: and she fell in love with that life very quick. 194 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 3: And this man six daughters, but like I said, they 195 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 3: lived with his parents, and so his mother called the 196 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 3: shots in that house. So this lady decided on everything 197 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 3: from what would be served from dinner, as to what 198 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 3: schools these girls would go to. 199 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 4: Everything. 200 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 3: To this day, my sisters when they talk about their mom, 201 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 3: their referring to their grandma. She was not in control, 202 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 3: you know, they weren't completely hers. And I just thought 203 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 3: about that, how I felt like an outcast when it 204 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 3: came to our relationship, you and I, my mother and I. 205 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 3: She had gone through the same thing, you know, So 206 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 3: maybe it was just a pattern that maybe that's all 207 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 3: she knew. 208 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: That makes sense her mother in law to go over, 209 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: so she did the same to you. So mammytas with 210 00:13:59,120 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: this guy. 211 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 3: She was happy, she was in love with this man, 212 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 3: and she wasn't poor anymore, and she was learning all 213 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 3: these things. But at the same time, she was unhappy 214 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 3: because she didn't have him completely. He was you know, 215 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 3: he was a very good looking man, and he would 216 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 3: go out a lot, you know, and I'm guessing she 217 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 3: finally got fed up after six kids, and you know, 218 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 3: followed him one day and discovered that he had a 219 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 3: second family. And so she was so hurt when she 220 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 3: found out about this man's betrayal, and she packed up 221 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 3: her stuff and left, leaving her six seven daughters behind, 222 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 3: and she got on a bus and went to the border. 223 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 3: She stayed there with some relatives until she found ways 224 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 3: to come to the United States. 225 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: I know it was very hard for her to make 226 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: the decision to leave her daughters and come start a 227 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: new life in the US, but you know, she wanted 228 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: a better life, She wanted a better quality of life, 229 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: and the US scene promising. 230 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 3: I think that deep down she was already a strong 231 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 3: woman and she was not going to settle for those crumbs. 232 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 3: You know that everyone had given her up done till 233 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 3: that day. 234 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 2: So she makes it to the US. 235 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 3: And then a cousin of hers and her went to 236 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 3: Los Angeles. They lived in Ease La. It was like 237 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,239 Speaker 3: in the early sixties, and they had these big old hairdoes. 238 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 3: Mami Lecha had two jobs. She would get out of 239 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 3: one job, she would worked at this laundry place and 240 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 3: went to another one. And I remember that she lived 241 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 3: with her cousin and my aunt. They had a roommate, 242 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 3: some other lady, and they told my mom, you work 243 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 3: too much, Let's go out this weekend, you know, and 244 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 3: my mom was like, oh no. Her thing was to 245 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 3: save up money to someday have enough to bring her 246 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 3: daughters home with her. That's what her goals were. But 247 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 3: of course, I mean, she was young and she worked 248 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 3: a lot, so she deserved to go out, you know, 249 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 3: and so she started going out with them. 250 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 4: They went to a bar. 251 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 3: They're at a table, and you know, there's music playing, 252 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 3: and there's these two men in the background. I keep 253 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 3: looking their way. So my aunt tells my mom, I 254 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 3: believe that guy's looking at you. He's checking you out, 255 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 3: you know, and she's like, I'm not interested. I'm not 256 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 3: here for that, you know. 257 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 4: Now. 258 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 3: Her story is she wasn't interested in talking to him 259 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 3: at the beginning, but he just wouldn't go away. So 260 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 3: my mom was like, he just started showing up all 261 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 3: the time and then started offering me rights, you know, 262 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 3: like I could pick you up from work, you know, 263 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 3: and take you to your other job. And I'm assuming 264 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 3: my dad started you know, being really sweet to her whatever, 265 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 3: because she eventually she gave in and she started, you know, 266 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 3: getting feelings for him as well. 267 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: I can totally see her being cold and stunt offish 268 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: before falling in love. So they got married quickly, and 269 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: then they had you. 270 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,479 Speaker 3: I was born in East LA and I guess they 271 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 3: lived there for a year or two. But by now 272 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 3: Mammy Lecha's mom is in Tijuana. She moved down to Tijuana, 273 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 3: and she's older and she's sick, and so I guess 274 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 3: every weekend they were driving over there to visit, and 275 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 3: at some point they made the decision to just move 276 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 3: down to San Diego so they could be close to 277 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 3: the border and be close to her mom, so they 278 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 3: could take care of her. And that's when my memories 279 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 3: come in. I would describe my parents' relationship as very toxic. 280 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 3: My first memories one dark night in San Diego. There 281 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 3: was a storm, I believe there was lightning, something from 282 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 3: her movie kind of, and my parents were fighting. I 283 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 3: remember my dad broke a window. I was really scared, 284 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 3: and yet they needed each other. Years later, they went 285 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 3: through this whole divorce process with attorneys and the court 286 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 3: and splitting properties and whole ordeal, but then they still 287 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 3: saw each other every day. 288 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 4: They couldn't be without each other. 289 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: That makes sense too, because it's like it's all they know. 290 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: They both had rough childhoods with abuse, lots of hardships, 291 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 1: so I'm not excusing it, but it makes sense that 292 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: they weren't an healthy couple because that's all they had 293 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: seen as examples. It's it's like a generational thing. And 294 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: you know, she has a child at the age of thirteen. 295 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: You have a child at the age of fourteen. You're 296 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: forced to grow up very fast even before that, because, like, 297 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: let's be real, when my my Moadi Chiampapavetto got arrested 298 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: that time that you know, the story you told us 299 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: about them raiding the house, you got to grow up 300 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: really fast. Like usually people like kids at that age 301 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: aren't exposed to something so significant. 302 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 3: My life was like that too, one thing after another. 303 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 3: Hers was the same, And now you're living all that. 304 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 2: I have built up an armor. 305 00:19:58,720 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 4: You know. 306 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: This leads into like every area of my life, my work, relationships, 307 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: my romantic relationships. Like I always I'm very guarded in 308 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: things involving feelings. I also feel that my Milichev was 309 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: very much like that, right she was, and so I 310 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: think I must have learned it from her. 311 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 3: You fell right into what she always tried to do 312 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 3: with me, you know, and your strings are a part 313 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 3: of that. 314 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 4: With me. 315 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 3: I remember her telling me over and over stop showing 316 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 3: your weakness. You're not weak, you know, and that's just 317 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 3: who I was and with you was it just came easy. 318 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 2: You know. 319 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: I don't mind learning those defense mechanisms from Emily Chia. 320 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 4: I think you feel pride. 321 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: There is a sense of pride because regardless of my 322 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 1: with each other, did or how she lived like, I 323 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: am so proud of her for being the strong woman 324 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: that she was. And if I'm anything like her, wow, 325 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: that's just like a huge honor to me. 326 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 4: She was the most important person. 327 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 3: In my life, and yet I felt I couldn't breathe 328 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 3: when I was around her. She was such a strong woman. 329 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 3: She was so compassionate, but she was one to fear also, 330 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 3: like I knew a lot of her deepest dark secrets. 331 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 3: I knew who she could be. I can't say no 332 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,239 Speaker 3: that I was afraid of her. I wasn't afraid of her. 333 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 3: I just didn't. I just didn't like who I was 334 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 3: when I was around her, and yet I wanted to 335 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 3: be around her all the time. 336 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: Mothers and daughters, it's always a complicated relationship. It's wild 337 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: to hear about the parallels in my mom's life with 338 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: my own, how we were both exposed to drugs, to 339 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: prison to violence. 340 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 2: At such a young age. 341 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: How we both tried to make sense of this adult 342 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: world as kids, and the stories we told ourselves to cope. 343 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: It's also crazy how we can trace directly the ways 344 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: in which our families and our past shape us. Mamiicha's 345 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: life was. 346 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 2: A lot like mine. 347 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: She had to provide for her siblings at a young age. 348 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,479 Speaker 1: She faced heartbreak early on, so as an adult, she 349 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: craved one thing control. 350 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 2: She wanted to call the shots. She was the boss. 351 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: She ran her own business, and she ran our lives too, 352 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: especially when she felt we couldn't. And I'm a lot 353 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: like that too. It's how I show up for the 354 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: people in my life. But my mom is different. She 355 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: didn't care about the material stuff as much, and she 356 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: didn't crave control. 357 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 2: She craved warmth. 358 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: She just wanted her mom's affection, so she went looking 359 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: for it somewhere else. I think it's fair to say 360 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: that she found it with my dad. But Mami Lecha 361 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: never cared for him. As always, she had her hat 362 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: in things, so she played a big role, not just 363 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: in them getting married, but in their divorce too. 364 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 2: Next time on Crumbs. 365 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 3: Mammy Lecha thought that by me getting divorced. She was 366 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 3: going to have full control of me again, but she 367 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 3: didn't know about the heroine. 368 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: It's really sad to hear that story, I think because 369 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: of how Heroin affected my life. Hey, listeners, there's a 370 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: lot of difficult subjects that we cover in this show. 371 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: If you're someone you know needs help, you can reach 372 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration Hotline at 373 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: one eight hundred sixty six Y two four three five seven. 374 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: They'll connect you with information and resource on treatment. There's 375 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: also the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at one eight hundred 376 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: two seven three T A l K. Both are available 377 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: twenty four to seven. You don't have to be in 378 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: crisis to reach out either. They're available for anyone who 379 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: needs help. Crumbs is a Sonato production in partnership with 380 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: Iheart's Michael Thura Network and Trojan Horse. It's produced by 381 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: Hannah Bottom and edited by Margaret Catcher, Rodrigo Crespo and 382 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: Alex Umero, with support from Elizabeth Schutzel. Original music by 383 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:44,959 Speaker 1: Dee Peter Schmidt and engineering by Carosmgagna e Mandel Barra Studio. 384 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 1: Recording by JTV Recording and Podcasting Studio. Executive produced by 385 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: Cono Brn and Giselvan Says for iHeart, Alex Fumetro and 386 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: Margaret Catcher for Trojan Horse, Gamila Victoriano and Joshua Weinstein 387 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: for Sonoro and me Emmy Lea Special things to Marina 388 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: Coronella and of course my mom Il Gambois. Listen to 389 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: Crumbs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 390 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: get your podcasts.