1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm stared Out, and today we're 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: talking about a topic that's kind of near and dear 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: to my heart and probably near and dear to the 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: heart of anybody who has ever studied Geisha or even 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: Reni Japanese culture, because it comes up a lot. I 8 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: first learned about this story in Jody Cobb's book about Geisha, 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: and Jody Cobb is a woman who was the only Westerner, 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: to the best of my knowledge, to ever be fully 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: indoctrinated into Geisha culture. And because in the West we 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: often equate geisha, we think of them as like sort 13 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: of high class call girls, but that's not really accurate 14 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,480 Speaker 1: at all. They're really artists, kind of like Mr misperceptions 15 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: about the Ottoman Harem on those right, Like they were 16 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: really um women of great culture and really artists in 17 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,319 Speaker 1: their own right and performers um And it was not 18 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: completely void of a sexual element, but that really wasn't 19 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: what that culture is about. And so that book really 20 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: opened the eyes, i think, to a lot of Westerners 21 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 1: about it, and also to the story of Okichi, who 22 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: is really one of these sort of great tragic figures 23 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: of Geisha culture. And when you told me what you 24 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: were thinking of researching I it didn't ring a bell. 25 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: But once I started reading about her story, I thought, oh, 26 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: of course I've heard this before. And part of that 27 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: is just because it has a strong fairy tale element 28 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: to it, except in the worst possible way. You know, 29 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: a tragic tragic story. Um, but it will probably be 30 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: familiar to a lot of listeners even if the name 31 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: isn't familiar right away. Yes, well, and even if the 32 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: story itself doesn't ring familiar to them, the themes of 33 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: it do, because it really is as you said, it's 34 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: it's like your classic kind of tragic romance story. Uh. 35 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: There are a lot of elements that are very common, 36 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: and that's not really accidental, will discover because a lot 37 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: of this is an embellished tale that you know has 38 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: grown in reputation and and the details have been fleshed 39 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: out here and there along the way, and it fellished 40 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: for romance and become another thing than it probably was. 41 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: It has, so we're gonna sort of do a classic 42 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: stuff he missed in history class, take on it. Then 43 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: and examine that story, the story that you're likely to hear, 44 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: the legend, the legend, and then what historical basis there 45 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: really is for it, right, the sort of less exciting 46 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: and thrilling but still interest you know, the tale um 47 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,839 Speaker 1: to see how it how it changes in interpretation every year. 48 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: So for quick background, Okichi was born in December eighty 49 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: one in Shimoda, Japan. Her parents, the psychos, were ichibay 50 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: and his wife Marco, and they were fishermen. I mean 51 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: they were in a fishing village. Shimota is the southernmost 52 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: port city on the Easy Peninsula, so this was a 53 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: time when Japan was not open to the outside world 54 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: and that plays into this story pretty dramatically. But according 55 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: to the legend, which is how we're gonna kick it off, 56 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: Okeechi was incredibly beautiful and was sold into a geisha 57 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: house when she was twelve years old. And um, I 58 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: guess if you've read this, this book about sort of 59 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: the history of geisha, is that a normal age to 60 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: be entering the geisha house? Yes, I mean, and and 61 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: when we say she was sold into the geisha house, 62 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: that in and of itself has some connotations that sound 63 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: really bad. But for a lot of these families, having 64 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: a daughter that couldn't contribute to the work of the 65 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: day to day like needs of a fishing family, they 66 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: couldn't afford to keep those children and raise them well 67 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: and give them the things that they felt that they needed. 68 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: So it was really, in many impoverished family's eyes, a 69 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: better thing to be, like, go to this life of opulence, 70 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: where you will be given every she'll become a woman 71 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: of you know, great grace and beauty. Um. So, while 72 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: it sounds really creepy, and it, I mean it is, 73 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: it's unsettling to think that a family would be like, 74 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: we're going to give you to these people. Not uncommon. 75 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: And as far as age, I'm trying to remember because 76 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: it has been a little while since I've read that 77 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: whole book through um, but I mean I have heard 78 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: accounts of kids much younger than that, even where it's 79 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: just from the get go they kind of don't even 80 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: have the resources to really get their kids through that 81 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: early formative stage. Well, in the amount of training that 82 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: a gay show would have to go through it too, 83 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: you would start very early if you're learning music and 84 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: dance and things like that that take a lifetime of practice, uh, 85 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: and the bio. There's a biography about Okichi which is 86 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: all referenced in a lot of other literature about her, 87 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: called Butterfly in the Wind, and it's by Ray Knura, 88 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: and it's interesting because it's written very much in the 89 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: style of a novel U, So in terms of historical basis, 90 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: I question it a little bit um And she writes 91 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: a lot uh in a very prose fiction style where 92 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: she talks about the inner feelings and the inner thoughts 93 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: of of the characters of the story, where you know, 94 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: there's really probably no historical um documentation that could lend 95 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: sources to that, but it is a good read and 96 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: it it's fundamentally, you know, kind of a um, a 97 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: really fleshed out, in depth version of the o'keechee legend 98 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: that gets told over and over. So keep that in 99 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: mind as we go forward. As we mentioned earlier, we're 100 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: in the according to legends, And if you go off 101 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: to to do more research on this yourself too, and 102 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: you pick up the book and think, wait a minute, 103 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: a historical novel, Yeah, it definitely does not read as 104 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 1: a textbook, so it really is kind of a novelization 105 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: of the story uh, And in this book we're told 106 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: of Okichi meeting even though she is in uh in 107 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: the geisha culture at this point, she meets a man 108 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: Sudu Matsu. In the aftermath of a storm that hits Shimodin, 109 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people had to evacuate, and she meets 110 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: him during that evacuation. City kind of get out of 111 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: the cloistered geisha training environment thanks to this story. Well, 112 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: and at that point she was already working as a geisha. 113 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: I can't I'm trying to remember if she was still 114 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: in the apprentice stage where she was working alongside another 115 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: or she had already ascended to be in her own 116 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: right fully fledged geisha. But uh, you know, in kim 117 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: what I was telling of the story, ok is troubled 118 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: because the opulence of the geisha world and this sort 119 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 1: of indulgence of it is very unsettling to her. She 120 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: sees it as, you know, not really how a person, 121 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: how a person should live, and she really dreams of 122 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: like a simpler life. She wants to be a wife 123 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: and a mother. And so when she meets Sudu Matsu, 124 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: who is very kind to her and unlike the gentleman 125 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: that she's been entertaining. He doesn't want anything from her. 126 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: He's not you know, she's not paid to make him 127 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: make conversation with him. He just wants to be with 128 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: her and care for her, and he doesn't care that 129 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: she had been a geisha. So she thinks all her 130 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: dreams are about to come true. Okay, though, we know 131 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: that I'm not gonna get down quite exactly as you 132 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: might think, because in eighteen fifty three, Commodore Matthew Perry 133 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: of the U. S. Navy first landed in Japan, and 134 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: by eighteen fifty four he had sailed to Okeeche's hometown, 135 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: Shimoda Harbor, with a varying number of chefs depending on 136 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: the account you read, which just pretty startling because that's 137 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: like a historically significant event. I mean, it's huge. But 138 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: even so, in different historical texts that are cited by 139 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: their texts, different numbers of the ships he brought, I 140 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: mean they change up in four four, and some it's 141 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: evan and some it's nine. But the most important part 142 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: is not the number of ships, but what he was 143 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: there to accomplish and to demand. Really, he demanded that 144 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: Japan established trade in diplomatic relationships with the US, because, 145 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: as you had mentioned earlier, Japan was a closed society 146 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: and had been where its history. Uh So this was 147 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: a that's a huge shift in in in world history really, 148 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: but also pretty important in Okichi's life. Yes. Uh. Now, 149 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: in some tellings of the story, the dates get real floppy. Um. 150 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: And some tellings of the story, Okeichee was seen by 151 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: Townsend Harris, who became the U. S. Consul in eighteen 152 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 1: fifties six. And so already there's something dicey there because 153 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: that's after these these treaties were being discussed. Remember this part, 154 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: this is going to be the first thing we get into, 155 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: and we're getting into some legend debunking. Yeah. So there 156 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: is one version of the story where towns and Harris 157 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: sees her when she's seventeen. She's leaving a bathhouse with 158 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: a friend of hers, uh, and he thinks she's quite lovely. 159 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: She doesn't interact with him during that, But then later 160 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: on people come into her life and say, by the way, 161 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: we need you because this gentleman thinks you're beautiful and 162 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: if we can give you to him, it might grease 163 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: the wheels of this whole negotiation process. I mean things 164 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: go a lot smoother for us because they were not 165 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: going well at all. Um. Other accounts though, have Okachee 166 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: not being seen at the bath house. All. Um, she 167 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 1: was chosen by government officials because exactly she'd be a 168 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: good candidate. I'm sure he'll like her. Um. So in 169 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: some versions too, they offer up something for her taking 170 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: on this role, and that is a job for her beloved, 171 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: who was just a ship's carpenter, you know, a very 172 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: simple sort of working man. Um. They offered to make 173 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: him a samurai, high profile, high class position. Other accounts, though, 174 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: say that he was just moved out of the way, 175 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: especially it was given a job in another town. Yeah, 176 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: it wasn't a here as a reward if you do this, 177 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: it's just getting him out of the way. And um 178 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: that's because depending again on accounts, they might have been engaged, 179 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: they might have even been married. He was. Accounts differs. 180 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: Some say they were already married, some say they were engaged, 181 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: some just say they were in love. But he seems 182 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: like a man who needed to be removed from the 183 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: equation to make it all easier. Um. And in some 184 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: cases that's told as though it was offered up as 185 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: a negotiation tactic with Okichi and Sudu Matsu, like, we 186 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: will make your lives easier financially if we can give 187 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: Okichi to this foreigner, and in others it's much harsher, 188 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: and they just kind of gave her to the and 189 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: they just kind of pushed him off into something else. Yeah, So, however, 190 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: that ended up going down. Treaties were signed in Shimoda 191 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: in June of eighteen fifty four. The two signers in 192 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: question where Commodore Matthew Perry for the U S and 193 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: Degaku Hayashi for the Shogunate. And the agreements did have 194 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: a major effect, as we keep saying on on world history. 195 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: They opened up Japan to international trade. So it seems 196 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: from our legend at least that maybe Okeechee got the 197 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: job done. Yeah, but even the job that she was 198 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: given is a little bit in question. Um. And also, 199 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, so as a little brief sidebar, four months later, 200 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: I believe after um Matthew Perry had wrapped up his 201 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: business there there were Russian ships that also came so 202 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: right around the same time. It's not especially impactful in 203 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: this story, but it's interesting because it does kind of 204 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: point out how it started to Domino very rapidly that 205 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: Japan opened up to the US trades, and then there 206 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: was a Russian consulate almost immediately after that that opened 207 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: as well. So it was such a hugely shifting time 208 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: for Japan. I mean immediately after having been a close country. 209 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: Within five months they were trading regularly with two other countries, 210 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: already major countries. Um so Oguchi, though, did live with Harris, who, 211 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: as we mentioned, went on to become the U s 212 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: consul uh for a time. Again, depending on the story, 213 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: three years, three days, the number three seems to be 214 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: important for pretty pretty vast different, pretty big difference for 215 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: how long you live with somebody um and then all 216 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: sorts of versions of the legend of what she did 217 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: while she lived with him, whether she was some sort 218 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: of assassin. This is a dramatic movie version of the 219 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: tales to kill him undercover gaish i guess, but ends 220 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: up being loyal to him, ends up saving his life. 221 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: In other versions, she's sent to Harris by the shogunate 222 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: as a spy, so not somebody to to ease this 223 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: um this treaty negotiation at all, but to to see 224 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: what the US representatives were up to yeah, And there's 225 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: a great deal of debate and discrepancy and accounts of 226 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: whether or not their relationship was consummated. Um. She has 227 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: been described as his lover, as his housekeeper, as his nurse. Um. 228 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: There are people that believe that she served until the 229 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: American Consulate closed as like the local mistress for the consulate. 230 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it's all very It goes from everything from 231 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: a like a chaste caring nurse to a prostitute basically 232 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: consulate prostitute, and every version in between, you know, embellish 233 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: at will apparently is how that one went. Whichever version 234 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: you like the best is the one you tell any 235 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: it is. It's a very much choose your own ending 236 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: story because it just gets um even more out there 237 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: too as it goes on. After Harris left Japan, Okihi 238 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: was left behind. And this is sort of the central 239 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: focus of the legend, that being left and then being 240 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: a shunned woman somebody who was called tjan okichi um 241 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: so the mistress of a foreigner, the mistress of a barbarian, 242 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: a derogatory name for her um. And she was basically ruined, 243 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: ye ruined from from this association, whatever it might have 244 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: been with this foreigner and the stress of being shunned 245 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: by her the people she knew her her hometown led 246 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: to a drinking habit which got very serious. Yeah, and 247 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: obviously her career too, as a successful geishaw was was 248 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: not going to I couldn't really just spark that back 249 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: up because she really, I mean, no one would pay 250 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: for her to come and be an entertainer at their 251 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: party because she was you know, kind of considered trash 252 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: at that point. Unfortunately, so she you know, had to 253 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: look for other work eventually, and some reports and the 254 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: book we mentioned to tell a story of trying to 255 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: start up hair saloon business. You know, geisha of course 256 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: have the elaborate hairstyles which signify all sorts of things 257 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: about about them too. I think Molly and Kristen did 258 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: an episode on that some time ago and step Mom 259 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: never told you. But that didn't go as planned. No, 260 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: it turned out that the you know, the society women 261 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: that she was hoping to draw with her knowledge were 262 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: not the ones that wanted to go there because she 263 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: was again still seen in a dark light, and so 264 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: her clientele tended to be women of ill repute, the 265 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: high class women in the town didn't want to be 266 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: seen and they didn't want to associate with her, which 267 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: is really really sad. But in the meantime you have 268 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: to wonder what happened to her love and some stories 269 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: never mentioned him again. They just kind of jumped to 270 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: how okeeche story ends. But in others, and this happens 271 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: in the book, they are reunited for a time Um, 272 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: but it's a very conflicted relationship. Initially when she meets 273 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: him again, she almost doesn't want to be with him, 274 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: like she can't quite wrap her mind around it. But 275 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: then they do strike up this relationship, but she's conflicted 276 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: consistently about dragging Sudumatsu and his business. He was a 277 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: very popular carpenter down with her disgrace, and it's very dramatic, 278 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: and it's told in various versions. There are various levels 279 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: of drama, but there is lots of drunkenness. There are 280 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: fights where they talk about her having hung onto the 281 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: fact that he left in the first place when the 282 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: whole deal with the console was going on Um, and 283 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: you know, it was really on a trajectory that could 284 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: never get to a positive place again. They both start 285 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: to develop pretty heavy alcoholism issues and Eventually, uh Todumatsu's 286 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: best friend convinces her that if she really loves him, 287 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: she has to leave him because he's not getting business 288 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,479 Speaker 1: anymore because people don't want to be associated with her, 289 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: even peripherally through him. But his time is short anyway. 290 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 1: He dies a year later of a heart attack, and 291 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: o'kechi lived in Kyoto and Mishima for a time, um 292 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: possibly working as some sort of geisha in the darkest 293 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: versions of the story, as a prostitute. Um and then 294 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: finally did return to Shimoda, where she opened up a 295 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: restaurant she called it and show Koro, but it didn't 296 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: do well, lost money due to poor management. Um o'keechee 297 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: was not in a state to run a business. Intoxicated 298 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 1: a lot of the time, employees apparently stole from her. 299 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: There's one story of an employee that is fairly conscientious 300 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: trying to tell her like, people are stealing, don't you care, 301 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: And she's just kind of too drink to care. And 302 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: so it turns that employee where they're like, if she 303 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: doesn't care, I'm just gonna start stealing from the till 304 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: as well. Uh So you can see where that's not 305 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: really a good way to run a business. No. But 306 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: eventually though, there was kind of a change in sentiment 307 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,239 Speaker 1: about her. Maybe we've been too harsh, maybe she has 308 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: been misjudged. But she was in debt by that point, 309 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: despairing of how her life turned out, and it didn't 310 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: do much to help her at that point. So she 311 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: died by suicide in eighteen ninety two at the age 312 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,719 Speaker 1: of fifty one, by drowning herself near Shimoda. Uh. In 313 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: the book too, it's on March, which is right. There's 314 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: actually a strange day which you talk about a little 315 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 1: bit more, and it's on a different day, um And 316 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 1: the day in the book March, which is when the 317 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: festival actually happens in real life today um and is 318 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: touted as the day she died. In the book, that's 319 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: actually the day that a local priest took pity on 320 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: her because no one claimed her body initially, and after 321 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: two days he just couldn't take it, and he claimed 322 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: her and and found a place for her in his 323 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: temple to be buried. Uh. And that's the legend, which 324 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: is horribly sad, that's our legend. So she's dead at 325 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: fifty one, this tragic life living with the American Consulate 326 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: for our console for some number three days and having 327 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: her life spiral downward in consequence. But according to historians, 328 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: a lot of the details of that story are not 329 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: true at all, and I'm sure that's apparent just from 330 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: the discrepancy. Did she open these businesses, but we know 331 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: one of the businesses really arrested because the restaurant is 332 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: still there. Um. And then the very bland version that 333 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: comes up among historians is that o'kechee and another young 334 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: woman were housekeepers for hers for a very short time, 335 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: and her downwards by rolling life was not really unrelated. Yeah, 336 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: I mean, there could have been a shadow cast on 337 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: her reputation by things, but that it was not nearly 338 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: as dramatic as as what's often told in her story. Yeah. 339 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: So the major discrepancy though, and we told you to 340 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: remember this part, it has to do with the timeline 341 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: and the treaties, because according to the legend, Okeechee is 342 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: clearly offered up as some sort of treaty bonus work 343 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: out the treaty with the help of this young lady 344 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 1: where was a talented geisha. But she's always only linked 345 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: to towns in Harris and he actually did not get 346 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: to Japan until eighteen fifty six, so he wasn't even 347 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: there when that treaty was happening. He did work on 348 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: other treaties that came up along the way, as you know, 349 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: shifting politics and trade needs were addressed. Was just actually 350 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: called the Harris Treaty of eighteen fifty eight, much later 351 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: after Uh, this whole story was unfolding, and it's also 352 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: called the Treaty of Amity and Commerce. But he could 353 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: not have been offered okichi to make those initial talks go. Well, Um, 354 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: he wasn't in Japan. He wasn't there yet, he was 355 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: doing other things. Um. More discrepancies on the nature of 356 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: the relationship in the timeline. Um, Harris was he was 357 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: the first foreigner that lived on Japanese soil. Um. But yeah, 358 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: as we mentioned earlier, there's a one source that says 359 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: she was only there for three days and not even 360 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: until May of eighteen fifties seven. So again, nowhere near 361 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: when he was when the treaties were happening when he 362 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: first got there. Um. And then this one kind of 363 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: corrects my favorite you should read them, Okay. So we 364 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: told you that one possibility was that Opeechee served as 365 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: a nurse to Harris. That was the extent of their relationship. 366 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: There is a large monument in front of the main 367 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: building of the temple commemorating the beginning of cow milk 368 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: being consumed in Japan, and Harris supposedly was a big 369 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: milk fan. He drank a lot of milk because he 370 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: had ulcers and it helped with them, and it kind of, 371 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: in a sort of roundabout way, kind of supports the 372 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: nurse story, supports maybe he was a guy who needed 373 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: a nurse. And in the sort of novelized history of 374 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: her life they do there are instances where she is 375 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: asked to go get more milk because they almost can't 376 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: keep up with his need for milk. And she doesn't 377 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: really want to go out because the villagers don't like 378 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: her and they've already started to shun her, and but 379 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: she has to get milk for him, and it's it's 380 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: very dramatic stuff. Um, but yeah, I mean, all of 381 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 1: those embellishments were really developed, likely through gossip and rumor. 382 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: I mean, we know you don't have to be in 383 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: eighteen fifties Japan to love gossip. There are lots of 384 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,719 Speaker 1: stories that happen in modern era just grow so outlandish 385 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: and bizarre that they couldn't possibly be true, but people 386 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: believe them. An okeechie story even though it, you know, 387 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: is in large part chunks of it are not true. 388 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: We're pretty sure. Um it's very very popular and it's 389 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: actually become a big thing in Shimoda. It's memorialized throughout 390 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 1: the city. Yeah, merchants so okeech souvenirs to tourists. There 391 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: are tourist attractions built around her story. UM hopeful Kuji, 392 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: which is the the temple where she was taken after 393 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: she had passed and buried. Um. It's the sixteenth century 394 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: temple and as we said, no one had claimed the body, 395 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: and a priest that knew her family took pity on 396 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: her and arrange for her to be buried there. And 397 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: there's also a museum there of her possessions like combs 398 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: and some of her musical instruments from when she was 399 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: a geisha. Um. But the weirdest part to me is 400 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: that her legend, and I was unable to find out 401 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: what version of the legend which was, but her legend 402 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: is relaid on a loudspeaker in both English and Japanese 403 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: for tourists, because I mean, clearly the legend loses a 404 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: little of its um loudspeaker appeal. If you if you're saying, well, okay, 405 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: she's sort of the say, you know, the guy might 406 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: have had ulcer. She was just delivering milk. Um. It's 407 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,479 Speaker 1: a strange thing to consider. I guess if anybody has 408 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: visited this site, we would love to hear more about 409 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: what specifically is relayed over the loud speaker, what version 410 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: of the legend, but the most touching part of the story, 411 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: because I think that we can we can assume that 412 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: this part is true. Her beloved is buried with her there, Yes, 413 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: and again I have seen pictures. I haven't been, but 414 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,479 Speaker 1: I have seen pictures of their two sites and they 415 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: are side by side. There's really no verification in any 416 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: sources that I found that yes, he is actually there, 417 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: or if it was just a monument erected um the 418 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: idea is lovely regardless. Uh. And then her restaurant is 419 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: also a tourist destination. Now Antokuro is um still a 420 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: restaurant on the first floor, but part of the second floor, 421 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: like one room, is dedicated as an Okichi museum. There 422 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: are also a lot of other Okichi items on display 423 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 1: at gail Kasenji, which is a Buddhist temple that became 424 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: the American consulate in eighteen fifty six, and Harris lived 425 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: in the temple for a year to making it a 426 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: pretty part of the story. Where the American Consulate in 427 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 1: Japan began was in that temple. Yeah, so the temple 428 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: displays pipes and dish is and other belongings of Harris's 429 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: as well as life size figurines of Harris and Okechi. 430 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: And this was another one where if you have been there, 431 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: we would like to have more information about well. And 432 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: there is a Time article about it where they describe 433 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: them as kind of ghastly, like it's a really creepy thing, 434 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: But again that's through one person's eyes. Other people may 435 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: find them very touching and romantic seeing them in person. 436 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: Almost the nicest part of this story, I think, although 437 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: again the date is a little strange if if this 438 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: is the day they choose to commemorate, but um Okeichi 439 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: is honored every year with the festival on March, which 440 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: is either the anniversary of her death or the anniversary 441 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: that the priest claimed her body and took her back 442 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: to the temple. Yeah, so people do remember this woman, 443 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: and she's kind of become a symbol of how, you know, 444 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: people can be victimized by the chain Jing winds of culture, 445 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: a symbol of that of that time. Yeah. Sure. Um. 446 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: The there's also some film adamation. There's well, there's one 447 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 1: called Tojino Kichi, which it was very old. I believe 448 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: it was made in the nineteen thirties, and there's only 449 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: like four minutes of surviving footage, which is like a 450 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 1: brief dance section, so it doesn't really tell much of 451 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: the story. It's literally almost watching a documentary of a 452 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: geiship performing. But there was another movie called The Barbarian 453 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: and the Geisha and it's actually starring John Wayne and 454 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: a Japanese actress named i go Ando, and it was 455 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: filmed on location in Japan, which was a big deal 456 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: when the movie came out, And it's directed by John Houston, 457 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: who already had established a pretty um spectacular career at 458 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: that point. I've got to this movie now. It's interesting. 459 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: It's very very interesting because like if you look at 460 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: the Rotten Tomatoes score, it's only like I think it's 461 00:27:55,280 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: fi um. But then if you look at it in 462 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: iTunes in the movie store, like there's a lot of 463 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 1: really good reviews of it, where some people are like, 464 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: I think this is the great unsung role of John 465 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: Wayne's career, but other critics will be like this was 466 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: the biggest misstep of both John Wayne and John Houston. 467 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: Like it was just it did not go over well 468 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: even though it was beautiful because it was um and 469 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: they really did do some at that point in the 470 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 1: fifties too, which you didn't really bring a whole crew 471 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: out to another country at that point. Yeah, well, I 472 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: want to see it all the more. But I mean 473 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: I couldn't help thinking just for John Wayne in his 474 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: little his robes, it's like it's worth it. I couldn't 475 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: help it think though that it's maybe time for another 476 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: adaptation of this. Yeah, it's such a compelling story. It 477 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: does seem so suitable for fiction. I mean, maybe that's 478 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: why the historical accounts of it seemed to be tinged 479 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: pretty strongly with with fictional elements. Um, it's one of 480 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: those stories where the historical basis is great and it's 481 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: a good kickoff point, but maybe more could happen with 482 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: it and give me a serious. Well, I kind of 483 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: love the idea of the gaisou spy well, and she isn't. 484 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: In the movie. She is sent as an assassin and 485 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: kind of moves into a spine roll before she becomes 486 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: they become very fond of each other and fall in love, 487 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: and it's very dramatic and you know, really kills him 488 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: to leave her behind, and it's so I guess I'm 489 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: basically requesting a spy movie, but also also a tragic 490 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: realmance too. I mean yeah, And because there is so 491 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: little actual documentation, it's so easy for this to be 492 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: even further embellished, have at it. Filmmakers go crazy, go crazy. 493 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: So while sad, I think it is lovely that she has, 494 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, been redeemed in history. Again, we don't know 495 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: the value of the actuality of what happened, but as 496 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: a symbol, she's really become very important to kind of 497 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: recognize them just the ways in which people's lives are 498 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: genuinely affected by current events. And you know, when people 499 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: become pawns, it destroys lives. So it's good to have 500 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: that remembrance and have her honored in in the way 501 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: that she is now At the festival. So sad story, 502 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: but with sort of a happy coda to it. Yes, 503 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: I'd say, so, um, it's it's always good to have 504 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: a festival day. Do you have to have a tragic life? 505 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: At least you get a festival after festival in the 506 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: long run, and maybe another movie. Okay, So moving on 507 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: to listener mail today, I thought I would include some 508 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: real mail. Postcard. It is from Renata in Omaha, and 509 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: she wrote to say, ladies, I took my grand tour 510 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: of Europe before your podcast started, so now that I've 511 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: finally gone somewhere interesting again, I didn't want to miss 512 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: my opportunity to send you mail. I'm on a week 513 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: long trip to China for college, and I've been learning 514 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: a ton about the Dragon Lady. If you visit the 515 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: Forbidden City, you can see her summer palace, which is amazing. 516 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: I would definitely recommend a warmer month because Nato was 517 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: there in January and apparently found it rather chilly. But 518 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: that's really cool. The Dragon Lady was such a fun 519 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: episode to to talk about and I love it. As 520 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: I always say, when people are inspired to take trips 521 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: based on the podcast and Forbidden Cities on my boocket 522 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: list and now they have a Starbucks. So I'm covering, 523 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: really get to go. That was the one thing that 524 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: was holding you back. I have to mention too, since 525 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: you guys know, um, I like the stance, the international 526 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: stance that we get on the postcard. This one has 527 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: the cool This one, it's a good stamp. It's crackodiles, 528 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: I mean kind of alligators cuddling. They are kind of cuddling. 529 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: There's like a little or alligator who's resting his chin 530 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: in a sleepy way on the other alligator's back who's 531 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: smiling at the reader. It's quite dear. So thank you, 532 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: thank you for choosing such a good stamp on a 533 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: beautiful postcard and a lovely postcard. And I'm glad you 534 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: had fun. So if you would like to learn more 535 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: about the topic we've talked about today, you can go 536 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,479 Speaker 1: to our website. Type in the word Geisha in the 537 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: search bar and you will get the article how Geisha work. Uh. 538 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: If you would like to contact us, you can do 539 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: so via Twitter. Yeah, on Twitter, and we're also on Facebook, 540 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: and we are at History Podcasts at Discovery dot com. 541 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: For email and uh yeah, we'll be getting an email soon. 542 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: I'd love to hear from you. And if you want 543 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: to research almost anything else you can think of, you 544 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: should do that at our website, which is how stopeworks 545 00:32:54,920 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 546 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: Isn't how Stuff Works dot com m hm m m 547 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: m