WEBVTT - Sports Cameras 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:08.920 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:17.880 tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone, 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.320 Welcome to tech Stuff. My name is Chris Poulette and 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:22.439 I am an editor at how stuff works dot com. 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.440 Sitting across from me as usual as senior writer Jonathan Strickland. 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:31.240 Oh and that's a bad miss wice. I like that one. Yeah. 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:36.720 So today we're going to talk about some interesting technology. Um, 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.640 and this was something that has been requested of us 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:46.000 from a couple of different people. We're gonna talk about sports, specifically, 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:50.840 specifically hawkeye, right, but but there are other sports we 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.159 we actually we struggled with what we were going to 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:59.200 call this podcast because down yep I had said hawkeye 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:03.360 not an avenger, but was told that that was not 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:08.360 s c O worthy. Well, I you know, when we 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:13.760 we started thinking about the technology used in sports officiating 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:18.080 and sports broadcasting, they're all kinds of technologies that they 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.280 used for for a variety of different things. And um, 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:25.440 Jonathan and I researched some of the same technologies and 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:27.640 some of different technologies, and in fact, I'm not sure 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:29.400 we'll get to everything we looked at. We may have 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:31.720 to come back to it in the future, write it 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:33.840 down and and and come back to some of it. 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:37.720 But specifically, we wanted to talk about the Hawkeye officiating 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:39.440 system because that's one of the topics that both of 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:41.040 us worked on. And if you haven't heard of this, 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:45.880 um it may depend on which sports you follow. Hawkeye 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.760 is used. Americans probably would know what best for tennis. 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.800 If you're a tennis fan, you know that for years 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:57.760 they've used systems to try to help them officiate whether 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.400 or not the ball hits on the line or next 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:04.000 to the line, Is it in? Is it out? Uh? 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:07.600 Is Wacknrow going to throw a complete fit that really 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:09.800 has almost nothing to do with whether or not the 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:11.280 ball was in or ound. No, but there's like a 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:14.560 chance that will happen. Yes, and it's always entertaining when 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:18.120 he does. It was wonderful anyway, But yeah, and to 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.920 varying degrees, Hawkeye is the newest, I would guess, newest system, 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:24.320 or at least the newest one I've heard of that's 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:28.520 used for this purpose. And it's highly highly accurate, and 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.240 I see I see in looking into it in greater depth, 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.760 why people are so interested in it. Yeah, and it's 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.120 not just used in tennis, of course, that's that's what 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:38.200 Chris was mentioning. That was the one that the American 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:41.240 folks would probably be most familiar with, but it's also 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.640 been used quite a bit in cricket, which as I 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:46.920 studied and as I learned more and more about the 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:51.400 hawkeye system, I realized that compared to cricket, hawkeye is 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:59.160 really easy to understand. Cricket is impenetrable. I seriously, you 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.440 it's an asseason. All the folks out there playing cricket, 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:07.400 it's pretty much everybody. How do you even understand what's happening? 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:09.480 Like do you wake up in the middle of the 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.240 game and say, are you just making the rules up 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.480 as you go along? Seriously, I don't understand. Yeah, you 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.000 know you're gonna get hate mail for that. And we 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:19.360 need to have a podcast just on cricket so I 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.000 can listen to it, because I sure as heck couldn't 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:24.639 talk about all right, anyway, that's neither here nor there. 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:29.360 So well, it's the too share similarities in that you 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:34.000 have a smallish balls being thrown or hit, and the 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.559 thing is you have to tell whether or not it's 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:41.440 landing in a certain spot. Um And what hawkeye does 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:45.400 It can it can tell you, uh, for one thing, 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.360 where the ball is hitting, whether it's in or out 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.960 hits on online. But it also can tell you it 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:54.960 can give you an idea of the distribution of where 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.800 the ball is landing. And it's a lot easier to tell, 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.360 you know, for example, where a a sock car ball 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:02.840 or a football or football depending on how you look 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.960 at it, or a basketball, those those balls are are large, 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:10.200 considerably larger, and they're easier to spot. But yeah, I mean, 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.160 trying to follow something like a hockey puck or a 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:17.200 cricket ball or a tennis ball is or baseball you 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.000 know there. That's why a lot of these technologies are 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:24.760 being developed to help augment human ability to see where 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.320 it's going and maybe give us some insight on how 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.000 to play the game a little better. Yeah, So in hawkeye, 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.200 for I mean, it's it's not unusual to think of 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.719 cameras on a sporting event and cameras being used to 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:40.200 try and determine whether or not a ball has passed 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.640 out of play, and that we've seen that in lots 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:44.400 of different sports, and you know, you'll see it in 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.839 football even then, where you'll you know, they'll have to 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:49.400 do a slow motion replay and the referees will be 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:51.839 looking at to make sure that the call they made 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.360 was an accurate call um if their call has been challenged. 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.520 The same thing in other sports. There are other sports 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.919 where you are allowed to challenge the ruling of a 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:05.760 referee or umpire and uh, and then you usually have 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.640 either a moment where the referees will talk amongst themselves 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:13.560 or they will refer to whatever the tape is right right. 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:15.800 Of course, there is much debate about whether or not 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.880 this is okay or not, and whether, you know, should 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:23.400 we bring technology into it? Should it just be like 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.680 human error is part of the game, and therefore it's 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:28.000 part of the game, both on the part of the 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.200 players and the officiates. And other people are saying, can 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.800 we please just take the officiate error out so that 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.279 we just have to worry about the player or well, 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:41.120 considering how good the technology has gotten, it's understandable that 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:46.840 this debate has continued because hawkeye itself is at least 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:51.040 according to my research, accurate within three point six millimeters, 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:53.800 possibly a little bit better. At least according to the 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:58.440 person who invented it, Dr Paul Hawkins. Now hawk, Okay, 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.920 you feel like I've heard that Plkins. At any rate. 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:07.520 The the the interesting thing to me about hawkeye is 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:13.039 not that it's it's not that it's it's a you know, 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:17.000 a complex camera system. That part's interesting. But what's really 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:21.560 interesting to me is that using these cameras and triangulating 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:26.280 the images captured by these different cameras um and measuring 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.080 the speed of the ball and the path of the ball, 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:33.080 Hawkeye is able to project where that ball would have 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:37.640 gone had it not encountered something. All Right, So this 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:41.080 is not necessarily important in every sport, but in some 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.440 sports it means a great deal. This is where we 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:45.640 get back to cricket, where I was having a really 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:47.839 hard time figure out why do you even need this 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.200 for cricket? Um Because for those of you who are 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.960 cricket fans who or perhaps you're not familiar with say 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:58.520 American baseball, we don't really look at replays for baseball 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:03.640 that that doesn't really have been well often. Yeah, and 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:05.960 that's another one of those things that keeps coming up, 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.080 should there be should there be a replay system in baseball? 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:10.720 So That's why I was wondering, like, why do you 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:12.880 need it for? Why do you need it for a cricket? Well, cricket, 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.280 you know, they have their elements in cricket that are 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.760 similar to baseball. But that just fools you. It reels 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:20.720 you in and then think makes you think you understand 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:22.560 how what's happening, but you really don't. Well, the two 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:25.760 sports are cousins, they do share some similarity. So the 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:31.960 batsman in cricket stand in front of the stumps right 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.960 the wicket based based on what I know of cricket. Okay, 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:39.640 so you have the bowler who lobs the ball, uh, 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.120 and the bowler's aim is to knock over the wicket, 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.840 to knock over the stumps, and the batsman is defending 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:47.440 the stomps, trying to hit the ball out of the 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.840 way and earn runs. Well, sometimes the ball will hit 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:59.120 the batsman and there there is a a a term 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.120 called leg for wicket, which is essentially meaning that the 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:06.160 batsman's body has has encountered the ball and that the 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.600 ball would have continued had the batsman not gotten in 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:12.520 the way and then knocked the wicket over. Well, clearly 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:17.040 that would be an unsportsmanlike way to prevent the bowler 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:21.600 from hitting the wicket. So hawkeye has been used in 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:25.280 cricket to project where the path of the ball would 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.160 have been had the batter not batsman, not been in 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.320 the way. So the idea is that, well, sometimes the 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.760 ball would have hit the wicket, sometimes it would have 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:35.680 bounced over the wicket or bounced to the left or 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.479 to the right of the wicket. And yet if you're officiating, 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.080 if you make this call, uh, you know, you're basing 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:43.880 it on your own perception of what's happening right, your 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.000 own the angle that you're looking at, and um uh 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:51.360 you know how closely you're paying attention. Hawkeye is supposed 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:53.679 to try and take some of that guess workout by 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:57.680 stating by by measuring the path of the ball, the 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:03.200 speed of the ball, and and essentially guessing or calculating 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.800 where the future path would have been. So that's a 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:10.800 very useful feature there because it takes theoretically, if it works, 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:14.760 it takes the human element, the guessing, the estimation out 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.160 of it. Now, what I find interesting about this is 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:23.280 that humans we tend to really like this kind of prediction, right, 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.320 predicting where something's going to go based upon the angle 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:30.280 and the speed. Because if we didn't love that, angry 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.719 Birds never would have become a huge hit. But this 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:35.880 is serious, I'm serious. Think about it. Think of all 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:41.479 the games that we play that depend upon accurately assessing 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.640 how the path of an object is moving through the air. 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.720 I mean baseball and football, and both depend on it 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:49.000 because you have to be at the right place at 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:51.959 the right time to intercept it. Right. Let's let I 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.400 mean get right down to it. Sports. A lot of 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:59.079 geeks say that they don't like sports, and that may 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.840 necessarily be true. Two, but there is a geeky element 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.400 to sports otherwise, and I don't know of a sport 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.559 for which this is not true. We wouldn't be keeping 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:12.560 these elaborate statistics about the you know, well, in the 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:16.680 fourth quarter, the team that is a head is likely 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:18.839 to win by seventy six percent of the time. And 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.400 you know, he gets on base, he's likely to score 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.600 you know, four d per cent. You know as well, 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:27.600 you get into them and totally messed that up. But 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.400 I'm basically they keep a lot of the sports statisticians 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:36.000 keep all kinds of amazingly uh minute statistics about every 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.040 living every little thing you know, on days when it's 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:43.520 seventy six degrees and you know this kind of right here, 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:47.199 his name is Paul Revere. That's just going to open 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:49.360 another door to another world we don't want to go 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:54.160 to right now. But yeah, I mean, this is another 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.440 one of those examples of adding technology that's going to 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:02.840 help us track that much more information about the sport 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:05.199 and gives us something else to argue about, which is 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:09.000 another sporting tradition, right, but that's sometimes more entertaining than 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.959 whatever is actually going on, depends on the sport. But 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.840 but yeah, I mean, we're interested in what would have 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:20.240 happened and how likely is this particular outcome versus that 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:26.920 particular outcome based on history and the ambient temperature and 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.200 all kinds of other things. And hawkeye does take a 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.640 lot of that into account. That's the one of the 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:35.400 interesting things about hawkeye is, um, there's a battery of cameras. 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:39.960 They go around the playing surface, whatever sport you're playing. 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:42.920 And there are people who want hawkeye used for baseball, 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:49.400 American baseball, cricket. It's the pitch, right or but yeah, 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.760 but but the cameras are only part of the story, 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.600 as Jonathan pointed out earlier, and yes there is there 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.000 are computers on the back end, but what what really 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.800 fascinated me is and the number cameras depends on whatever 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:04.839 sport is in question. There might be more or fewer 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:10.079 depending on the area. Ten yea cameras. It is a 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:13.319 lot of cameras, especially considering the size of a tennis court. 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.520 But the fascinating thing to me is the prep work 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:19.800 that takes to go in. And the reason that Hawkeye 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:23.200 isn't used more wide in a more widespread way is 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:27.360 it's expensive. You might say, why, it's just some cameras. Well, yeah, 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:31.480 and they're sophisticated cameras, sure, but you also require people 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.280 to run the system. And part of that is it 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:39.679 takes prep work. The surface of the playing surface, whatever 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.840 it is, is mapped because it's I can't think of 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.200 a playing surface and it seems flat to us when 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:47.839 we go out to stand on the on the tennis 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:51.640 court or or the cricket pitch, but it's not. And 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:55.080 the computer maps. The Hawkeye system needs to map the 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.400 surface of the ground and where the lines are and 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.520 where all the things are on the feet yield so 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.959 that it knows essentially where everything is. It takes into 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:08.960 account the temperature and other factors because of course, the 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.319 the tennis court could heat up depending on the color 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.560 of the tennis court, that the material the court is 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:18.559 made of, grass for example, or clay. Um clay is 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:20.920 a little bit different because you know the clay, you 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:25.120 can actually see if you've ever watched a clay court match, uh, 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.520 you'll see that it leaves a little dust mark when 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.600 the when the ball hits. That's easier for them to tell. 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:33.160 But on other surfaces like grass, it's not as easy 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.800 to tell, but it will heat up and that can 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.600 actually change whether or not the the court is expanding 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:41.839 or contracting depending on the temperature. And Hawkeye has to 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:45.760 take all of that information into account um so that 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.160 when the cameras do record the trajectory of the ball, 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:50.920 and it also needs to know how the ball is 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.680 going to act. Right if you're you're looking at a 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.600 tennis ball, how does a tennis ball behave when it 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:01.480 hits the earth versus cricket ball. Sure, so it takes 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.120 all of this stuff into account, which is why the 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:08.359 system is so sophisticated and so remarkably accurate. At tracking 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.679 where the ball is going to land based on you know, 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.720 the way the ball is hit or is thrown, and 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.640 the surface it hits in the in the environment that 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.560 it hits. I think that is absolutely amazing how how 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.080 how it works like that, And it does require human 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:28.240 intervention too, because people have to operate the equipment beforehand 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.560 and during the game or the match to h to 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:35.800 make it work. And there's definitely some controversy here as well, 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.120 because you're talking about I mean, yes, Christmas pointing out 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.880 it is very precise as a margin of error around 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:44.800 three point six millimeters, that's pretty tiny. But should you 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:49.520 have a situation where Hawkeye is essentially telling you that 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.320 let's let's say that it's a tennis match. Okay, let's 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:57.000 say it's a Test match and the the the the 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:00.600 referee has said that it is uh that the ball 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:05.600 was hit out, and then the other the player who 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.320 hit the ball, challenges that call and so they review 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.680 it and Hawkeye says it was in, but it was 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.480 in by one millimeter. Well that's within that range of 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.080 error at every point six. So then you have to 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.200 decide does that does the is the referees call upheld 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:25.320 or overturned. If it's overturned, how do you justify that 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:29.920 when the the the the distance that it was you 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.720 know that that it fell within is less than the 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.560 margin of error for the system. See, there's an all 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:40.400 new uh, all the dimension of arguing about sports to 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:42.280 be like, no, that's within the margin of error. You 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.080 cannot you cannot overturn a call based upon that. I 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.880 mean that that that could become that could be the 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.960 outcome of that argument. Or they could say, all right, 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.000 well we're gonna trust the machine over the person even 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:58.040 though the machine gave us a reading that could theoretically 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.600 be wrong. Um. Yeah, that's the sticky thing. And of course, 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.160 when you're talking about one millimeter, you get into a 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.280 point where without the system, you know, you just have 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:12.560 to go with whatever the the referee or or officiate says. 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.240 I mean, you don't have you don't have the benefit 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.800 of checking back on with another call, and sometimes you 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.000 just you know, you got to accept the fact that 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.640 there is this element of error that's going to happen 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.880 because there's no perfect system to judge it. I think 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.560 if there were a perfect system, would it change the game? 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:39.280 It can? Um from what I've seen Uh, A lot 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:43.120 of the tennis players seem to like Hawkeye. They seem 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:45.960 to feel that it's pretty accurate. And if you're willing, 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.240 if you're willing to agree that the system is accurate 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.440 and to trust it, then that's one thing. But I 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.040 think you're right, Jonathan that if if a call comes 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.640 within that margin of error, even when you said, yes, 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:03.240 you know what, I trust this computerized system over the 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.840 official when it's a really tight call like that, I 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.440 believe it to be accurate. If they says one millimeter 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:13.480 and you go, well, yeah, but it's precise to within three, 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.040 it really could have been out. I mean, I think 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.639 that causes even the people who are really behind the 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:24.800 technology too, you know, because it's an emotional issue, especially 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.159 when you've been playing hard and it's it's you know, 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.560 it's an important match like you know, the Wimbledon final 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.320 for example, or the French Open, one of the Grand 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.720 Slam championships. It's you know, I think even the people 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.040 that are behind it are going to be a little 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:43.919 reticent to just trust the machine. But that's that you 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.920 have to trust the humans. If you don't trust the machines. Yeah, 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.000 that that does come down. Yeah, exactly. You're like, well, 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.120 does that mean that something we know of that's accurate 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.040 up to three point six millimeters is somehow worse than 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:00.400 a humans perception? Is the humans perception actually more accurate 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.960 in this case? I mean it's a delicate subject. And 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.680 like like we said before, with the the clay courts, 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.520 that's where you're you start thinking, hey, maybe we just 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.160 need to start playing on clay a lot, because then 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.199 at least we can look at where the mark is 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:14.960 and say, all right, now, clearly this is where the 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.800 ball hit and you know the ball, Yeah, the ball 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.320 bounced out, but the ball initially hit within the lines. 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.120 Of course, then you're gonna have all the players who 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:26.240 specialize on all the other courts say no, no, no, no, no, 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.359 no grass courts where it's at. Yeah, And then you 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:33.960 have the well, how how accurate is the little dust mark? Right? 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:38.000 Is that within three millimeters Someone's been standing over there 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.520 stomping a lot. So I'm not going to totally entrust 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:45.280 that either. Yeah, right here, sports is one that's one 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:49.119 of the that's one of those issues where uh, seemingly 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:54.639 tiny events can erupt in huge controversy. Yeah, so at 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.960 any rate, I do think this is a pretty cool 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.320 um device. And when Christmas talking about the back end 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:06.119 with the computers, they're all obviously running algorithms that allow 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:11.080 the the Hawkeye system to project where the ball either 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:13.840 was going to go or it can predict where the 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:19.800 ball actually landed. UM. The usually if you're talking about triangulation, 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.520 you're talking about at least feeds from at least three 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:28.120 cameras being the triangle right, and then based upon those 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:32.680 three those three streams of data, that's what the Hawkeye 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:36.160 system uses to predict where exactly it landed or where 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.680 it was going to go. Uh. It's a pretty interesting 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:43.399 system and I would be very interested to see it 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.720 applied to other sports as well. UM. I think, for 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:48.639 one thing, even if you're not using it as a 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:53.560 way to to back up calls or overturned calls, it 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:58.080 could in theory be a really useful system just for 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.920 players and teams and to to really kind of see, 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:07.200 you know, well, I meant to throw this kind of ball, 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.320 you know, the ball this way, but it actually came 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:13.280 out that way, or you know, uh, how accurate am 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:20.040 I when I'm trying to hit the wicket in cricket? Um, 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:22.119 that sort of thing. It could be really useful, although 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:25.000 again it's very expensive system, so really you only see 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:28.040 these things trotted it out for actual games as opposed 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.600 to you know, practices and things like that. Yeah, it's uh, 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.520 it's interesting to note to based on on what you 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.480 just said and the numbers I saw. UM. And I 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:41.119 should say that I did UM most of my or 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.560 a lot of my research from an article uh in 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.040 the New York Times that appeared in two thousand and 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:50.919 eight by Aaron Pilloffer. UM. He said, the system itself 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:56.760 actually costs around a hundred thousand dollars or so. UM. 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.840 That probably goes up a little bit or has gone 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:02.080 up a little bit in the last couple of years. 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:04.560 And I think it probably depends on the arena and 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:06.399 the and the type of system, the number of cameras 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.840 you have to have. UM. It also requires again you 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.280 have to pay people to run the equipment, so it 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:14.960 is not inexpensive, and it's not the kind of thing 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.080 you know, you'd have to set aside a good chunk 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:21.760 of change to put that on your practice fields. UM. 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.639 But you know, if you want to be really, really good, 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.240 maybe it's worth it. Yeah, I saw that. I saw 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:35.320 it was also used in UM the snooker Championships. Really yeah, wow, 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:37.480 I wen't have how many cameras you would need because 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:41.720 that's a really small playing surface relative to say a 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.480 cricket pitch. Yes, but you know what that that would 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:49.119 be fascinating though, because you could you could measure. I 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.159 would assume that a surface that small would be easier 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:56.400 to map with a computer UM, and the temperature would 0:21:56.400 --> 0:22:00.480 be more controlled because it's something that you do indoors mostly. 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:05.640 I don't think they don't think they play arena. Yeah, 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:09.320 but but yeah, that would be kind of interesting. And yeah, 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:12.520 well the idea is that it'll it'll kind of show 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:16.840 why shots went awry. Yeah, right, like someone when you 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:20.640 see a championship snooker player. I'm not gonna make any 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:23.119 jokes about them, but when you see them line up 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:25.760 a shot, you think, you know, well, why did that 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:28.720 shot not work out the way it was planned? And 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:31.600 that's the ideas that with this system you could actually 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:36.320 review that particular shot and see what exactly went wrong. 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:40.440 Was there some sort of imperfection in the table surface 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:44.920 or was it merely the technique the player used that 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:49.240 you know, it made a wrong judgment and that's why 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:53.119 it didn't work out. That's kind of interesting. Yeah, it's funny. 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:56.280 We're we're past the twenty minute mark of our podcast, 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:58.680 and and I'm thinking I've already thought of a couple 0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:01.119 of things that I didn't do any research on sports 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:03.880 related technology that we can talk about later. But yeah, 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:07.359 I think we can definitely do a couple of sports podcasts. 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:10.560 And it's I do think that it's an illustration of uh, 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:12.800