1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: one thirty two. Tampa police on the hunt for a 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: killer after the shooting gats of three people in ten days. 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: We will hunt this son of a down until we 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: find the three victims gunned down less than half a 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: mile apart. Tampa's mayor doing what he can to reassure 7 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: the public so that they've added a thousand street lights 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: to the Seminal Heights neighborhood and that they won't stop 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: until that killer is caught. Nobody comes into our house 10 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: and does this not now, not ever. Authorities pouring over, 11 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: bringing surveillance video for clues, looking at this person of 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: interest walking alone, wearing a hood on the night of 13 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: the first killing. I need that Seminar Heights community to 14 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: stand up and I need them to point out who 15 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: that man is. You guys, go hunt him down and 16 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: bring his head to me. One hundred thousand dollars offered 17 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: as reward for information on the Tampa serial killer. The 18 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: Tampa community lulled into us sense of safety and complacency. 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: When the serial killer strikes again, I, Nancy Grace, this 20 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories, and we want to put a stop 21 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: to the Tampa serial killer. He has now claimed the 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: lives of four innocent people. Why joining me from w 23 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: f l A. Meredith SINCEULO on the scene. Dr Daniel 24 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: Bober forensics psychiatrists joining us and also death investigator, forensics 25 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: expert Professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott 26 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: Morgan first straight out to Meredith. SINCEULO with w f 27 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: l A on the scene, Meredith, what's the latest. Well, 28 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: Papa Police have now officially declared the person seen in 29 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: that first surveillance video. They now say that he is 30 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: a suspect, and they also believe that he is the 31 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: person involved in the fourth murder that occurred this week. 32 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: That's the murder of ron W. Felton. The right now, 33 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: Tampa police believe the person on the videotape is a 34 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: suspect in the murder of Benjamin Mitchell and very likely 35 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: a suspect, the very least a person of interest in 36 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: the murder of Ronald Sultan this week. They are not 37 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: saying that that person is a suspect in murders two 38 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: and three because they don't have actual suspect description in 39 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: those cases. But again, they are treating all four of 40 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: those cases as related. Meredith since Ulo with w f 41 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: l A joining us on the scene. Meredith, let's talk 42 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: about this new video that has been released. What do 43 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: you see and what can we learn? The new video 44 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: is more surveillance camera videos similar to what we saw 45 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: after the first murder. So these are new images captured 46 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: on surveillance video of a person walking down the street 47 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: in the moments before Ronald Felton was killed. So that's 48 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: what was released by the Tampa Police most recently. And 49 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: because of that, they believe that that person is the 50 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: person of interest in the fourth murder, and they're also 51 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: tying that person back to the first murder. The one 52 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: thing that they really want people to pay attention to 53 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: the interesting gait that this person has. They believe that 54 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: the way that this man walks, they describe it as 55 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: a very specific walk a stance, I guess you could say, 56 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: and they think that that is a distinguishing feature of 57 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: the person that may stick out to someone. Also, you'll 58 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: remember from the first surveillance video they pointed out an 59 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: interesting man rhythm that the man had where he was 60 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: fiddling and flipping his phone around. Those are just those 61 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: personality traits that they feel like somebody would notice those things. 62 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: They would notice the way that he handles the phone, 63 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: they would notice the way that he carries himself, the 64 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: way that he walked, And they are hoping that those 65 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: two things helped identify the person because, as you know, 66 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: the suspect description is incredibly vague. It's a tall, thin, 67 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: light skinned black man last seen wearing all black clothing 68 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: and a black baseball cap. That could describe a lot 69 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: of people. So they are hoping that the additional description 70 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: of those mannerisms will help trigger someone's knowledge about this person. 71 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: They're also pointing out that they want people to keep 72 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: in mind the times of day that these murders were committed. 73 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: The most recent one happened at four fifty one in 74 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: the morning, and so they say, you know, is there 75 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 1: somebody that was supposed to be home between four thirty 76 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: and five am and they weren't. Little things like that, 77 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: The mannerisms, the time of day could provide very important 78 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: clues to solving this spring of murders. With me there 79 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: in Florida is Meredith Cinculo, w f l A to 80 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, that sounds like, let me 81 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: just blunt bs. Okay, my B Sameter is really off 82 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: the chart right now. So if you think all four 83 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: murders random murders, this guy's picking people off like a 84 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: sniper in Tampa, are related, and they're saying he's a 85 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: suspect in one of the cases but not two and three, 86 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: that just doesn't make sense. If they're saying that all 87 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: four are connected, why are they saying that Joe Scott 88 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: maybe on those other two cases, they don't have definitive 89 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: connection to them as far as something like ballistics, which 90 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: to this point, to my knowledge, at least, they haven't 91 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: given us definitive proof. Uh. That's the only thing I 92 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 1: can think unless they're unless they're kind of vesting their 93 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: cards at this point in time and not wanting to 94 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: release any more information relative to this. I do know this. 95 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: The surveillance video that I've seen, UM, which is from 96 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 1: multiple points of view at different times, UH, certainly appears 97 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: that this, uh, this person who they believe is connected, 98 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: has the same gait and is proudly through this particular 99 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: same area in the m O Phil It's uh, in 100 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: all of these cases, UH, he's selecting these people apparently 101 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: connected to the bus line. Uh, he's approaching them with 102 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: stealth and UH and gunning them down and then X 103 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: filling from the area as quickly as he possibly can. 104 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: Nancy just got more death investigator. I hear what you're saying, 105 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: but they said the same thing. And the Missy Beaver's case, 106 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: they're in Middle Lothian, Texas. Oh, we got the person there, 107 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: this tall, there this, they weighed this much, and they've 108 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: got a peculiar gate that in four dollars will buy 109 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: me a cup of coffee at Starbucks. Okay, so the gate, 110 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: sch mate. I'm happy they noticed that. I noticed it too, 111 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: but that I don't know that's gonna help me. Joseph's 112 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: got Morgan. I don't know that it's necessarily going to 113 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: help in a specific identification, but it has it has 114 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: the ability to narrow things down, uh to the point 115 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: where we can exclude all others. And this is a 116 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: process that the investigators have to go through methodically, So 117 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: they're gonna be turning over every piece of evidence. In 118 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: one I say turning over, what I mean is look 119 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: under every possible rock that they can't uh. And this 120 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: is merely a starting place. Uh. In this case, Nancy 121 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: and there are multiple points of of of start here, 122 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: if you will, where everything from ballistic evidence to the 123 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: gate time of day. Wait a minute, Wait a minute, 124 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I'm just remembering something. Joe Scott Morrigan, 125 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: I prosecuted a guy believed to be a serial killer 126 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: and the murder of Jane Doe was very hard prosecuting him. Um, 127 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: he turned out to be a chef and he had 128 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: a limp. And I later modeled a character in my 129 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: book Eleventh the Victim, after him, not totally him. I 130 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: changed him a lot, but it's a chef with a limp, okay, 131 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: and that limp was important. Now what you're saying, I said, Gates, mate, 132 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: I retract that. I asked that it be struck from 133 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: the record because you can at trial. Let me go 134 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: to Dr Daniel Bober, forensics psychiatrist at trial can absolutely 135 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: make somebody walk in front of a jury. And I'll 136 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: tell you how I know that, Dr Bober. One of 137 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: my very first jury trials, not the very first, which 138 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: was a shoplifting which I desperately eked, had an attempted 139 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: shoplifting conviction. Um, was a bank robbery and I was 140 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: so happy Dr Bober because um, I thought, Wow, the 141 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: fads usually take bank robberies, you know, because of the 142 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: f D. I c well, I know why they didn't 143 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: want it. It was very difficult to prove well. In 144 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: the end, they didn't even have surveillance video. They were 145 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: still Dr Bober and the guy was wearing a fake mustache, 146 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: fake beard, fake wig, fake outfit which he ripped off 147 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: in the alley. Hat, everything, sunglasses. You could see nothing, 148 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: and um, this is what I had. He walked like 149 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: a duck. He was slew footed is one foot was 150 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: nine thirty and the other foot was three o'clock. With 151 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: every step. Let me tell you something, Dr Bober, when 152 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: he got up in front of that jury to walk 153 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: out of the courtroom, every or twenty four eyeballs hanging 154 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: over the jury rail watching him walk, and sure enough, 155 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: quack quack, he walked like a duck. So I don't 156 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: know how I managed to forget that, Dr Bober. But 157 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: gate can matter, and it can be demonstrated in front 158 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: of a jury. All right. The constitution protects you from 159 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: having to speak, but the law can force you to 160 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: give a blood sample, a DNA sample, a bugle swab, 161 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: a voice test, a line up, a handwriting analysis and 162 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: a gate analysis. So Dr Daniel Bober, aside from my 163 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: bank robber whops was convicted um walking like a duck? 164 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,599 Speaker 1: What is going through this guy's mind right now? On 165 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: Dr Bober? He's out smarting me, all of us on 166 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: the panel today here on serious sex and one two, 167 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: he's out smarting the cops everybody. What's going through his head? Bober? Nancy, 168 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 1: No one would consider you a quack for considering a 169 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: gait as an identify. But it's probably not a science 170 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: any more valid than say handwriting analysis, which is probably 171 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: weaker of the forensic sciences. But I think in this 172 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: particular case, the police either don't have much more than that, 173 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: or they're just keeping their cards very close to their 174 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: vest because besides the bus line, uh, there doesn't seem 175 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: to be much to connect these victims together, and it 176 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like they have much where they're just trying 177 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: to protect the integrity of the investigation. Okay, number one, 178 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: that's not what I asked you, But I'm used to 179 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: men trying to dodge questions, so I'm gonna ask you again. 180 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: I do think they've got more they think the person 181 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: lives or freak lives in our frequency area. I think 182 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: when it's all said and done, we're gonna have ballistic matches. 183 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: Although I'm curious that they don't have a match on 184 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: victims two and three. So if they're saying, yeah, this 185 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: is a suspect and four and it's the same suspect, 186 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: what is he using different? AMMO is that it does 187 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: that mean he's got access to more than one gun? 188 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: But Dr Bober, my question, do you you're the shrink? Okay, 189 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan is a death investigator. Okay, Merita Cecilo 190 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: as a reporter, I'm a trial lawyer. You're the psychiatrist. 191 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: And let me remind everybody, a psychiatrist is somebody that 192 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 1: went and got their medical degree. I mean, he could 193 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: perform surgery on me right now. Uh, but then they 194 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: go on and get an additional specialty in psychiatry. So 195 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: what I'm asking you, again, Dr Bober, your honor, please 196 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: direct the witness to be responsive to the question. It's 197 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: what's going through this guy's mind. It's hard to know 198 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: why he's choosing these victims. Obviously, in a lot of 199 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: these cases, the assailant gets some kind of sense of 200 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: power and control. Maybe he feels marginalized, maybe he has 201 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 1: been wrong in some way and he's striking out at society. 202 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: But it's very hard to know that. You can only 203 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: look at common, more generic patterns, and it's difficult to tell. Hey, 204 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: Dr Bibera, are you telling me he hasn't claimed four 205 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: lives and he's not sitting back getting a kick out 206 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: of fact. We're trying to figure out who he is 207 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: and planning his next victim and knowing inside I'll ufed up. 208 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: I've got control over all these people. I can kill 209 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: whenever I want to, when they're not gonna catch me. 210 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: Look at me out smarting all of them are do 211 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: I have to Q and A with myself, Dr bober Nancy, 212 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: I actually agree with you. I think that he does 213 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: receive a lot of sick power and gratification from it, 214 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: and he probably is watching the news media and maybe 215 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: even listening to your show, uh, looking for some kind 216 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: of um, you know, pleasure from it. Okay, if you 217 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: are listening, you're gonna get caught, and when you do, 218 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: you're gonna get the death penalty. And in Florida, they 219 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: don't play, they don't play. I want to go back 220 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: to our reporter joining us on the same meridis Inceulo 221 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: with w f L A Meredith. Police in Tampa are 222 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: begging for more help from the public. Uh. And and 223 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: they're asking for simple things like turning on your lights 224 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: from six pm to six am. Why why do they 225 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: want that? Meredithin Culo. Yeah, that's right. That that's something 226 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: that they've been telling the community since day one. They're 227 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: re reiterating that now that now since we have this 228 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: as fourth murder. And one thing that I think could 229 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 1: be interesting, as they are relying heavily on surveillance video. 230 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: A lot of people in this neighborhood have home survivalance cameras, 231 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: and I wonder if having the lights on outside that's 232 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: going to help with the quality of capturing these images 233 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: could be very useful. Also, perhaps this person, you know, 234 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: we know that he likes to commit these crimes at night. 235 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: Having as much light as possible could be a great deterrent, 236 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: uh to to stop these Although I will point out 237 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: that the fourth murder occurred in the middle of a street. 238 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: It's a well lit street, it's a major thoroughfare. It 239 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: parallels one of our major interstates that cuts right through Tampa. 240 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: So that fourth murder was in a location that was 241 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: well lit. However, to get to that location, this person 242 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: had walk down very dark streets, So lighting up the 243 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: streets could play a major role in either deterring this 244 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 1: person or if he does strike again, maybe we get 245 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: better quality images. Both of the surveillance videos that we have, 246 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: unfortunately are very low quality. Some of them were shot 247 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: from quite a distance away, and as you know, if 248 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: you are trying to zoom in to get a better 249 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: image from those cameras, you're still going to have a 250 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: very poor quality. So any images that we can gather 251 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: that are going to continue to hone in on that 252 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: description are going to be helpful with me on the scene, Meredith, 253 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: Sincelo from w f l A said, Meredith, let me 254 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: ask you another question. What other strategies are being taken 255 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: by police and trying to catch this guy on surveillance 256 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: which you and I talked about, uh, immediately following the 257 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: fourth shooting, in the hours in fact, you were still 258 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: on the same Meredith, because I am saying everyone should 259 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: get the surveillance video home business, you name it, to 260 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: see catch where this guy is running to to try 261 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: to get a directional on where he lives. But what 262 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: other strategies are police taking meritus? Since you well, they 263 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: have increased the reward. It is now over ninety dollars. 264 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: Previously it stood around forty dollars. So they've added on 265 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: another fifty thousand dollars hoping that that will encourage anyone 266 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: with information to come forward that may lead to and 267 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: arrest in this case. So they feel that let's try 268 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: to INCENTIFYZ incentivize this. They that they by Tampa Police 269 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: FBI A t F. They truly believe that this is 270 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: someone who lives in this community. Somebody must know something 271 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: that their their belief and I believe that too. This 272 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: is a small neighborhood within the Tampa Bay area. They 273 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: believe that this person is well known. Uh and and 274 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: they're hoping, Okay, maybe if we increase this reward, we're 275 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: just a nine dollars now, maybe that will make the difference. 276 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: We also have companies donating a space on electronic message 277 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: boards to keep sharing that information, sharing the tip line 278 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: number UM the anonymous tip number that people can reach 279 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: out to them. And that's the other thing they're reiterating. 280 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: You don't have to tell us who you are. Call 281 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: in with your tips. After the fourth murder of Ronald Felton. 282 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: That day, four hundred and fifty new tips came in. 283 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: So these incentives continuing to share the story, it is 284 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: providing leads, but unfortunately it is not solved this case 285 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: just yet. Can you imagine the fear of knowing that 286 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: when you walk outside in the Tampa area, you're taking 287 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: your life in your own hands. I remember distinctly going 288 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: to d C on a daily basis. I would get 289 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: off for at Court TV and fly to DC every 290 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: day to do the Larry King Show. And I did 291 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: that for months. Um, do this show, spend the night 292 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: in DC, get up at four thirty the next morning, 293 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 1: and take a flight back to New York two do 294 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: Court TV. And it was in the middle of the 295 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: d C sniper tragedy. And I remember getting off the 296 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: plane and going out to Hellicab and just standing there 297 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: out in the open, thinking, is it gonna be me? Um? 298 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: And that's what it wasn't just me, it was everybody 299 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 1: in DC felt the same way. That's what's happening in 300 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: Tampa right now. I want you to take a listen. 301 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: Let's go straight to the police presser. Let's go Jackie. 302 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: If you recall this was the video. Noticed the the 303 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: hoodie or rain jackets, noticed the gate and how they're walking, 304 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: the phone flip and how they're nonchalantly just walking. Appears 305 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: to be looking at his phone. It appears to be 306 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: a light color jacket. I think that's very misleading. You 307 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: see it here. It now looks a little bit of 308 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: a color structor color jacket. Same individual. We originally called 309 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: him someone we wanted to talk to. It went to 310 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: a person of interest. Today we're gonna call the same 311 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: individual a suspect. And you're gonna see why. In just 312 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: a moment yesterday morning, November, moments before the homicide, same gate, 313 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: same walk, Maybe not the same jacket, definitely a hoodie. 314 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 1: I repeat, we are now calling this person a suspect, 315 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: and we need to know who this person is. We 316 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: need someone who is thoughtful, cares and has the heart 317 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: and the fortitude and the bravery to step forward and 318 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: tell us who this person is and give us the identity. 319 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: I don't need speculation, we don't need profiles. We need names. 320 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: It's pretty simple. All you have to do is called 321 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: crime stoppers tips that police press are out of Tampa, Florida. 322 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: I've got to thank our partners who are making our 323 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: program and our search for the Tampa serial killer possible. 324 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: Today it is legal Zoom. Business owners, you know how 325 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: vital it is to keep moving forward with your business, 326 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: but things come up to take your time and focus 327 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: away from growing your business. 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Yeah, 362 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: I killed my mom, but I don't deserve this. What 363 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: you murder your mom and you climb, you don't deserve 364 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: so much jail time. We'll take a listen to what 365 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: this daughter, Gypsy Blanchard, age twenty four, reveals in a 366 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: prison interview. Should you be in this prison? To be honest, 367 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: I have complicated feelings about that. I believe firmly that 368 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: no matter what, murder is not okay. But at the 369 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: same time, I don't believe I deserve as many years 370 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: as I got what Your mother is dead and she 371 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: was murdered, and you were involved, I was what would 372 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: be a just punishment. I'm not really certain on that. 373 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: I do believe that I do deserve to spend some 374 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: time in prison for that crime, but also I understand 375 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: why it happened, and I don't believe that I'm in 376 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: the right place to get the help that I need. 377 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: Are you glad your mother's did No, sir, I'm glad 378 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: that I'm out of the situation, but I'm not acious 379 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: that that's right. You heard it yourself there she is 380 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: talking about how she doesn't deserve this. It's a Missouri 381 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: woman who kills her mother. But that's not the entire story. 382 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: Out to John Limley, Crime Stories and crime Online, investigate 383 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: every reporter, John Limley, what's the rest of the story, 384 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: How this whole thing go down? Nancy, the sheriff in 385 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: Greene County, Wisconsin, where Gypsy Rose Blanchard was found after 386 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: her mom's murder, probably some this story up perfectly when 387 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 1: he said things are not always as they appear. Now 388 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: here's the picture of what was in most minds who 389 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: knew of Gypsy and her mother, Claudine or d D. Blanchard, 390 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 1: a loving, middle aged mom caring for her young daughter, 391 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: a little girl that suffered from a number of ailments 392 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: including muscular dystrophy, epilepsy, sleep apnea, leukemia, and severe asthma. 393 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,959 Speaker 1: Over the years, Gypsy and Deed had become really the 394 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: poster child in mother for so many individuals and organizations, 395 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: people that helped with fundraisers. The two benefited from the 396 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: efforts of Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, and even 397 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: the Make a Wish Foundation. Those around them had only 398 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: known Gypsy Rose as a sweet, smiling child in a wheelchair, 399 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: her mother d D as the most caring and devoted 400 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: of mothers. So folks watching in the courtroom or on 401 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: TV as Gypsy Rose walked into a courtroom to answer 402 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: charges related to her mother's death could not have been 403 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 1: any more shocked. Here Gypsy Rose was not only accused 404 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: in taking part in her mother's murder, but she could walk. 405 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: Oh and she was not a little girl but a 406 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: woman in her early twenties. Okay, you're messing with my mind, 407 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: John Lamley, investigative reporter. Okay, wait, she's supposed to be 408 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: a little girl sick with leukemia and muscular distrophe and 409 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: all sorts of ailments. What do you mean I'm looking 410 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: at her. She's actually beautiful with long brunette hay error, 411 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: kind of in a shag cut. She's um, she's the 412 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: perfect weight, she's got a makeup. What happens? So you 413 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: just have to look at pictures posted, say even a 414 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: few years before this, where you see a girl with 415 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: a completely bald head, uh, sitting in a wheelchair, usually 416 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: her mother by her side, at some fundraiser or some sort. Now, 417 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: what has emerged is a long story of abuse at 418 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: the hand of that mother who had who is people 419 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: have surmise had Munchausen by proxy syndrome in which a 420 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: parent or caregiver. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you're 421 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: so messing with my hand, because I'm looking in the 422 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: picture of Gypsy. This is the little girl that I 423 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: now know is a twenty four year old woman. And 424 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: you're right. She's bald, she looks very ill, she's very pale. 425 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: She she looks like she's missing some teeth. Possibly. She's 426 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: hugging on her mom and they're holding a little Chihahwa dog. 427 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: The mom is smiling, she's smiling him. It looks like 428 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: they're putting on a brave front. She looks like she's 429 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: about twelve years old in this picture. Absolutely, well, that's 430 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 1: a big fat lie. So what was really happening? John 431 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: Limley Well of d D not only told others and 432 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: eventually convinced even Gypsy that she had all of these illnesses, 433 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: She made them reality whenever possible by finding chemicals medications 434 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: that would cause the appropriate symptoms. She even fooled a 435 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: majority of the girl's doctors over times. Another of d 436 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: d's deceptions concerns her age, which we've been talking about. 437 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: Gypsy Rose's mother had even convinced the girl and confused 438 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 1: her as to her real age, also making her out 439 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: to be younger than she was. As Gypsy Rose got older, 440 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: her mom would still contend that she had the brain 441 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: of a seven year old. Doctors were so convinced of 442 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: Gypsy's ailments that she underwent countless procedures, even having her 443 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: saliva gland is removed so she would stop drooling, and 444 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: installing a feeding tube, something that was in place for 445 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: quite some Putting a feeding tube into your child's body 446 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: having them operated on. I mean this mother d d 447 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: her her hoax, even fooled doctors who put the little 448 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: child on all sorts of prescriptions. They performed surgeries on 449 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: the little girl Gypsy. The mother accepted financial donations, went 450 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: on charity funded trips to places like Disney World. She 451 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: had Munchausen by proxy, and she went to such great 452 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: extent to get attention to herself via her child. She 453 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: even let the child undergo surgery, convincing this child she 454 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: was truly ill, making the child all sorts of horrible 455 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: sentence like vomiting in pain. To Dr Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, 456 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: you have studied this case very carefully. The girl finally 457 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: killed her mother. Dr Bobera explained to me much Hausen 458 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: by proxy, Nancy Munchausen by proxy. The more formal name 459 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: is factitious disword imposed on another and it's a condition. 460 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: Where As the reporter said, uh, the caregiver, usually the 461 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: mother will make the child sick, either inducing seizures, poisoning them, 462 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: causing them to bleed, in order to get attention. These 463 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: are people who are essentially addicted to the attention that 464 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: they get from doctors. They very often have a history 465 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: of their own trauma and some sort of personality disorder, 466 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: usually narcissism or perhaps borderline personality diswitter. But in this 467 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: particular case, you know, the victim and I use the 468 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: victim in quotes, was both of these people. I mean, 469 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: the mother obviously should not have been murdered, but there's 470 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: obviously mitigating circumstances in that this child was undergoing traumatic 471 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: abuse for years by her mother, inducing her to be ill. 472 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: And looking at a picture of the little child, well, 473 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: I guess she's a little child, and she is in 474 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: the hospital bed it looks like an a vent later 475 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: with like she's just had surgery. She's I'm just sick 476 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: about it, and this child went through this for all 477 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: these years to Joseph's got Morgan death investigator, what can 478 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: you tell me about the murder of this evil mother? 479 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: She's evil, she is evil. The murder itself is rather gruesome, 480 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: very up close and personal case, Nancy. This Uh, this 481 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: woman was stabbed death, found, as the police described it, 482 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: in a pool of her own blood many times. As 483 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: you well know, the cases we've discussed, stabbing events, uh 484 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: turn out to be very very horrific, and they are 485 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: up close and personal. The individual has to be face 486 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: to face with them or immediately adjacent to their back 487 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: when this is occurring. But if I could add one 488 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: thing here, Nancy uh talking, you know, Dr bober Had 489 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: was given this description of of munch House and I've 490 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: worked munch House in cases, and what makes this case 491 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: so particularly bizarre for me, um is had. Most of 492 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: the time, when you're talking about munch housings, the victims 493 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: tend to be the children, which makes this in my case, 494 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: at least where where I've worked mothers that are attempting 495 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: to get sympathy from others, they will kill their own 496 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: children and bring them to the point of illness and 497 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,479 Speaker 1: kill them. I don't recall in my memory of all 498 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: of my years of working a case. Uh that is 499 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: so polar opposite of that. And I could see how this, 500 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: how this young girl would have generated quite a bit 501 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: of anger. We're talking about feeding tubes being inserted. Uh, 502 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: this is horribly uncomfortable, traumatic, and Lord only knows what 503 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: else this woman was doing to this child to keep 504 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: her in this asymmetrical relationship that she had with her, 505 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: beating her down all the time, even metaphorically, um convincing 506 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: her that she is unhealthy, when all the while, you 507 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: know this child has got a mind, and she's saying, 508 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: I'm not these things or something inside, I'm not these things, 509 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: but I have to convince she's always putting on an act. 510 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: And so this makes this case for me. I think 511 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: that this is actually a case that people, particularly in 512 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: Dr Bobersfield, will study for years and years to come, 513 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: because it is certainly a typical. And when the girl 514 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: Gypsy is asked, is she glad her mother's dead, the 515 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: girl says, no, sir, I'm glad I'm out of that situation, 516 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: but I'm not happy she's dead. Now, she enlisted the 517 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: help of her boyfriend, Nicholas Goutt John, two days after 518 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: Claudine's body was found, walked into her first court appearance 519 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: on her own two feet, much to the shock of 520 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: everyone who thought this was a wheelchair abound little girl 521 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: suffering from leukemia and muscular distrophe. Now Here, here's the deal. 522 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: They lived in a home built by Habitat and Humanity 523 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: d D. Claudine full time care keep taker for Gypsy, 524 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: claiming all these chromosotal defects, epilepsies, sleep at nea, leukemia, asthma, 525 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: muscular dystrophy, even feeling doctors. But according to the little 526 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: girl's attorney, he says the mom even barred Gypsy from 527 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: attending school after kindergarten. Her mother would not allow her 528 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: to spend any time with any other human being. And 529 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: when they went to the doctor, the mom did all 530 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: the talking. You know, when I take the children to 531 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: the doctor. They asked me a few things, but then 532 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: they speak to the children and asked the children questions 533 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: as they should. And I just sit there and listen. 534 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: I want you to hear one more time this statement 535 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: from what I call the little girl. She's now a 536 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: grown woman. Should you be in this prison? To be honest, 537 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: I have complicated feel about that. I believe firmly that 538 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: no matter what, murder is not okay. But at the 539 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: same time, I don't believe I deserve as many years 540 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: as I got what your mother is dead, she is 541 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: and she was murdered, and you were involved. I was 542 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: what would be a just punishment. I'm not really certain 543 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: on that. I do believe that I do deserve to 544 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: spend some time in prison for that crime, but also 545 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: I understand why it happened, and I don't believe that 546 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: I'm in the right place to get the help that 547 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: I need. Are you glad your mother's did No, sir, 548 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: I'm glad that I'm out of that situation, But I 549 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: am not. How ISSUES said there, you were hearing this 550 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,719 Speaker 1: little girl. I keep calling her that, but she's now 551 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: twenty four years old. You know what I've got to say, 552 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: Dr Daniel Bayber right or wrong? UM, I understand what 553 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: the girl felt. I mean, she meets this guy on 554 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: Christian dating website. They start talking that he discovers she's well. 555 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 1: She starts outlining what has been done to her over 556 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: so many years. I mean, I don't to me, it's 557 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,760 Speaker 1: merely justifiable homicide. It's almost an act of self defense, 558 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: Dr Bober. I mean if I were sitting on a 559 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: jury and I knew what this mother had done to 560 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: this child, I have a hard time convicting her. Dr Bober, Yeah, 561 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 1: I agree with you. And um, it's interesting that only 562 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,919 Speaker 1: about fifty of these cases is actually present to psychiatrists. 563 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: Most of the people that see them are the pediatrician, 564 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of telltale signs, for example, the 565 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,760 Speaker 1: parent not wanting to leave the child alone with the doctor, 566 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: and there are cases where the pediatrician will actually work 567 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: with police or hospital security to covertly film the interactions 568 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,399 Speaker 1: between the parent and the child to try to get 569 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 1: some clues as to what's going on. But it does 570 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 1: require a very astute condition to figure it out, and 571 00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: very often these cases slipped through the crash. So let 572 00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: me go back to you, John Limley, Crime Stories and 573 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: climb online dot Com investigative reporter. She got ten years right, 574 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: and what was this? Was it on murder? Was it on? 575 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: Was it on second degree? I she'll probably be up 576 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: for parole and probably seven years. I'll tell you what 577 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,959 Speaker 1: did This whole story is a tragedy, you know, and 578 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: when you put it to a judge. It reminds me 579 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:34,240 Speaker 1: of Um Solomon, who said, I'll just split the baby 580 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: and each one of you can have half the baby, 581 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: so nobody would be happy that That's the story of 582 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: King Solomon, and just sometimes there is no good answer. 583 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,359 Speaker 1: That's what I had to learn in the courtroom. There's 584 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: never a real winner at the end of the day. 585 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: Even if you win your case and you since the 586 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: bad guy to jail, everybody leaves with a broken heart. 587 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,959 Speaker 1: We're on the case of Gypsy, you know what. We're 588 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: heading straight into the holidays, and that makes me realize 589 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: how much I have to be thankful for. But you 590 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: know what, I'm not leaving fat Boy, my little mutt 591 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: in Cinneama Girl, my cat out of the fun. I 592 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: have the link A k C smart collar and it's 593 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: called this Year's Must Have gift. It's backed by the 594 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 1: American Kennel Club. The link A k C coller is 595 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: a GPS locator, a fitness activity tracker controlled through a 596 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: smartphone app, all rolled into one. It even has an 597 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: LED light and temperature sensor. Yes for your dog, but 598 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: this is what I like. The GPS locator quickly and 599 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: accurately telling you where your dog is total peace of 600 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: mind to see where your dog is right on the app. 601 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 1: It's like find my iPhone for your dog. I don't 602 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: have to worry that he's running down the street right now, 603 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,919 Speaker 1: I know where he is. And it doesn't matter how 604 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: old your dog is is if it's a pure breeder 605 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: a mutt like mine. Link AKCS Activity Wellness Tracker shows 606 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: the exact amount of activity specifically for your dog. It's 607 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: so easy to set up, which I need. Their sizes 608 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: for every dog. It's comfy. Keep your little pet, your 609 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: little mutt or your thorn, your You're a little mutt, 610 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: or your pure bread safe, happy and healthy with link 611 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: a k C Smart collar, the perfect gift for you 612 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,280 Speaker 1: and your dog. You get at risk free for ninety 613 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: days and catch this say thirty and free shipping on 614 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: your order. You're not gonna get that at some high 615 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: price pet store. Thirty percent off free shipping if you 616 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: use code Nancy n A n C y at link 617 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: AKC dot com. Code Nancy at link akc dot com 618 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 1: save thirty and free shipping link a k C dot 619 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: com code Nancy link AKC dot com. Thanks so much 620 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,479 Speaker 1: for make fat Boy a k A Nitro Street named 621 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: Nitro Happy and healthy and thank you for being our partner. 622 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: And now we had across the country to the very 623 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 1: latest in the pen State hazing death to Alan Duke 624 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: joining me today, Alan, I, how could this story get 625 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:27,760 Speaker 1: any worse than a young kid, an athlete, straight, a student, 626 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: his parents finally get him to college. He goes to 627 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,720 Speaker 1: this fraternity party and he ends up commatos. I believe 628 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: he had uh shredded spleen and so many other injuries. 629 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 1: And he liked lay there in the floor for about 630 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: twelve to eighteen hours while everybody actually walked around him 631 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,799 Speaker 1: and stepped over him. They slapped him, they beat him, 632 00:38:55,040 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: they moved him around. He was um vomiting. He tried 633 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: to get to the door. They wouldn't let him leave. 634 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: He died, and then they had to cover up. Alan 635 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:10,320 Speaker 1: did what could possibly be worse. It's a parent's worst nightmare. 636 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: You you send your kid to college, you raise them, 637 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 1: you spend money to put him in there and get 638 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: him to that point. And of course they're going to 639 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: join a fraternity. I mean, you did it. I didn't 640 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: do it. I was in the military, so that was different. 641 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,879 Speaker 1: But you put them into this situation where they're out 642 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: on their own. He was nineteen years old, he was 643 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: a football player. He was big, strapping young man, and 644 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: you would think that he could handle himself, but the 645 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: peer pressure. The new information that we are now learning 646 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: in this case is that over an eighty two minute period, 647 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: that's less than an hour and a half, they coerced 648 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,320 Speaker 1: this young man I'm talking about his the frat members 649 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: allegedly because coerced him to take eighteen alcoholic drinks in 650 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: an hour and a half. And that is what they say. 651 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: A new charges have just been filed in the horrific 652 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 1: death of a Penn State University student. Video from a 653 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: base from a basement security camera has just been recovered 654 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: by law enforcement. Now this is what we know. The 655 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: fraternity brothers lad police to believe the basement cameras were 656 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: not working that night, on the bid acceptance night. I mean, 657 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: Alan's right. When I first went away to school, I 658 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 1: was seventeen. My parents dropped me off and left and 659 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: I did not know a single soul. I ran into 660 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: another girl from my hometown, Macon, Georgia. She was in 661 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 1: a sorority. She said, come over to our party. I'm like, okay, 662 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: and I went and I joined Alpha Delta Pie and 663 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 1: I made friends there. And let me tell you something. 664 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 1: They gave me a bouquet of violence. I mean a 665 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: pot of plant of violets and cupcakes and little presence 666 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: and which seemed to you and that that's what that 667 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 1: was like. And I made friends. Then I transferred to 668 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:02,240 Speaker 1: Mercia University. My fiancee was murder and I fell out 669 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 1: of everything, including sorority and school and everything. At the 670 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: very end, when I went back to school my senior year, 671 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: I was working alone in the back of the library, 672 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: all by myself, processing books, and a girl came in. 673 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: She came back to drop some books off. She also 674 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: worked there. She said, hey, aren't you an ad pie. Okay, now, 675 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: almost three years had passed since I had anything to 676 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,799 Speaker 1: do with the sorority, and I was getting over, well 677 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: like getting over. I was living through Keith's murder. And 678 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: I went yeah. She said me too, Come tonight and 679 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,840 Speaker 1: come out and be with us. And at first I 680 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 1: said no because I just couldn't even stand to be 681 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,760 Speaker 1: around people, but she kept asking me. Her name was Carol, 682 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: and you know what, I went and they were the 683 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: nicest group of girls, so I had life both ways 684 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: in college, and I'm thinking about this kid, this teen boy, 685 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: who hooks up with some guys and they seemed to 686 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: be nice guys, and he goes to the bid party 687 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: and he ends up dead. And its so called brothers 688 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: lie to police to say that basement camera wasn't working. 689 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:19,840 Speaker 1: But guess what it was. It had been manually deleted 690 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,840 Speaker 1: on purpose, just as the cops were about to seize 691 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: the recording equipment to allend. What more do we know, Well, 692 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,719 Speaker 1: we know this because the prosecutor, Stacy Parks Miller announced 693 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: this week that they're leveling charges against ten more students 694 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,359 Speaker 1: that had not been charged, bringing the number to about 695 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: two dozen who faced various charges, including manslaughter. Because this 696 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 1: video was recovered by the FBI. You delete it, but 697 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 1: it's still on the hard drive and these technicians with 698 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: the FBI can find it, and in this case, they 699 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: were able to restore it. The investigators were able to 700 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 1: see exactly what happened. And now the new indictments announced 701 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:02,280 Speaker 1: by the prosecutor. You know, it's it's just overwhelming, overwhelming 702 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 1: to me what happened and the level of deceit and 703 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,760 Speaker 1: deception to Dr Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, that these guys 704 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 1: went through as part of the cover up to cover 705 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: up what they did. Nancy, it seems like you had 706 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,240 Speaker 1: a pretty positive experience when you were in a sorority. 707 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 1: But a lot of what happens in these types of 708 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 1: cases where there's either a sexual assault or death is 709 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,600 Speaker 1: a mob mentality takes over and people are afraid to 710 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,400 Speaker 1: speak up because they're going to be uh, you know, 711 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,440 Speaker 1: criticized by their peers. But I completely agree with you 712 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 1: that this is just an egregious chain of events and 713 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 1: someone really should have stepped it in essentially stopped this 714 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: kid from being poisoned in front of everyone. Jess Goott, 715 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:53,000 Speaker 1: death investigator. Why Anne, about what this boy, Timothy Piazza 716 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: went through. Yeah, let me let me kind of run 717 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,439 Speaker 1: this down to you. This laundry list of these things 718 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,240 Speaker 1: that this poor kid went through. He's got a ruptured spleen, 719 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,399 Speaker 1: he's gota collapsed along, so more than likely he's also 720 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: got fractured rips and Nancy, these are the types of 721 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,279 Speaker 1: injuries that we see. These are blunt force trauma. This 722 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,360 Speaker 1: is what we what we commonly see in motor vehicle 723 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: accidents that occur at a very high speed where these 724 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,800 Speaker 1: types of things happen. So with ruptured spleen, what happens 725 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,880 Speaker 1: is you begin to bleed out into your dominant area. 726 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 1: It's kind of a slow death that it has to 727 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,720 Speaker 1: be taken care of by a surgeon. This kid wouldn't 728 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 1: get any help. And then, to make matters worse, he's 729 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 1: suffering from what's referred to as acute alcohol toxicity or 730 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 1: what is commonly referred to as alcohol poisoning. When his 731 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,680 Speaker 1: alcohol level gets to this point and we're thinking probably 732 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,879 Speaker 1: about poor uh point four oh. At that point, you're 733 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: at a lethal level where it's noncompatible with life. He's 734 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,239 Speaker 1: unable to even form words. It goes to a very 735 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,880 Speaker 1: primal thing where you're just trying to survive there, you know. 736 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,279 Speaker 1: And plus you've got these people beating on you to 737 00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 1: keep him away from the doors so he can and escape. 738 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,319 Speaker 1: Dr Bober made a good point. It's almost like he's 739 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,759 Speaker 1: in amongst a pack of wolves at this point in 740 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 1: top and they're just kind of circling him. They're probably 741 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 1: laughing at him periodically. You know. I heard one person 742 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 1: mentioned that they would either walk by and kick him 743 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,839 Speaker 1: or slap him. And that's what's going on here. He's 744 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 1: probably repeated, repeatedly kicked multiple times and the abdomen and 745 00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,520 Speaker 1: the ribs, and this is a horrible, horrible way to die. 746 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,840 Speaker 1: I'm a parent, I know, I know, Nancy, you are too, 747 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 1: and it's it's one of these things where your heart 748 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 1: just absolutely breaks. And listen to what the prosecutor says. 749 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: The Commonwealth is prepared today to announce new charges and 750 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 1: these charges are a direct result of new evidence in 751 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,319 Speaker 1: this case. For those of you that are familiar with 752 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,400 Speaker 1: the situation and the death of Tempiazza Um, we have 753 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,000 Speaker 1: new evidence and that evidence is if you have been 754 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 1: following it Um. The State College Police Department was indeed 755 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: able to recover the basement video in this case, and 756 00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,400 Speaker 1: as a result of the conduct on that video, we 757 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: are today announcing the filing of new charges from brothers 758 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 1: from this fraternity. These charges raine range from manslaughter to hazing, 759 00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:15,640 Speaker 1: and also charges for the actual affirmative deliberate deletion of 760 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:20,840 Speaker 1: that video, which obviously pertained to UM capturing criminal conduct. 761 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,000 Speaker 1: We'd like to thank the District Attorney and the State 762 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,680 Speaker 1: College Police for their continued commitment and efforts and finding 763 00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:32,440 Speaker 1: justice for us Tim's death. Tim wasn't happy and caring 764 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 1: human being in a wonderful son who just wanted to 765 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:39,040 Speaker 1: join an organization to find friendships and camaraderie. Instead, he 766 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,040 Speaker 1: was killed at the hands of those he was seeking 767 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,360 Speaker 1: friendship from. We have spent the past eight months wondering 768 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,759 Speaker 1: how can this happen on the campus of Penn State. 769 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:52,800 Speaker 1: The visions of him lying in the hospital bed, battered 770 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,040 Speaker 1: and bruised and on life support, looking as if he 771 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,920 Speaker 1: got hit by a tractor trailer make no sense. He 772 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,640 Speaker 1: was just trying to join an organization. Over the last 773 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:06,280 Speaker 1: several months, we listened to defense arguments centered around victim blaming, 774 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 1: or how could the defendants have known they were putting 775 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,600 Speaker 1: someone seriously seriously at risk since no one died before, 776 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,279 Speaker 1: as if they were entitled to one free death, or 777 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:21,720 Speaker 1: the catch all argument of we don't know. They claimed, 778 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,080 Speaker 1: we don't know what else happened other than what was 779 00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: seen in the upstairs video, and we don't know what 780 00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,640 Speaker 1: happened in the basement. Guess what, guys, now, we know 781 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:39,160 Speaker 1: we're making holiday plans without our sun Tim, because of 782 00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,799 Speaker 1: your actions. If you did not commit the acts you did, 783 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: we would not be here today, and would we be. 784 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,080 Speaker 1: We would be anxiously awaiting Tim's return home for Thanksgiving. 785 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: Break on Friday, the Penn State hazing death of this 786 00:47:54,640 --> 00:48:00,919 Speaker 1: young guy, Timothy Piazza. It's not over yet. Nancy Grace 787 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,560 Speaker 1: crimed the story, sidling off Goodbye friend,