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Speaker 1: He'd always say to me, I wouldn't do what your

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Speaker 1: first husband did to you and just walk out on

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Speaker 1: you and basically leave you with nothing. And it's frustrating

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Speaker 1: to be told you'll never have to worry about that again, Stacy.

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Speaker 1: It's just that, like, how dare you? How dare you

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Speaker 1: promise so many things that you had to know deep

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Speaker 1: down you were never going to be able to follow through.

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Speaker 2: Hi, guys, it's Andrea. In just two weeks, we'll be

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Speaker 2: back with a brand new season of Betrayal. We'll be

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Speaker 2: telling one story over several episodes. I'll take you to

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Speaker 2: Colorado where we'll do a deep dive into a betrayal

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Speaker 2: of family and community. But before that, we wanted to

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Speaker 2: give you an update on our family from last season.

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Speaker 2: In season three, we told you the story of Stacy

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Speaker 2: Rutherford and her son Tyler. Stacy was a single mom

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Speaker 2: when she met Justin. She knew on their first date

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Speaker 2: she would marry him, and she did. He was funny,

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Speaker 2: adored her children, and had a bright future as a

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Speaker 2: family physician. Together, they had two more kids. Stacey loved

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Speaker 2: Justin and the family they created. After years of uncertainty,

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Speaker 2: she finally fell grounded instability. But Justin was hiding a

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Speaker 2: dark secret for years. He was sexually abusing Tyler, Stacy's

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Speaker 2: eldest son. Once he was caught, he tried to organize

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Speaker 2: a murder for higher plot to kill Tyler and prevent

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Speaker 2: him from testifying in court. For these crimes, Justin was

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Speaker 2: ordered to spend decades in prison. We'll hear from Tyler

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Speaker 2: later in the episode, but first, I wanted to share

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Speaker 2: a conversation I had with Stacy over the winter holidays.

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Speaker 2: She called to let me know that there was an

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Speaker 2: update in Justin's case. Their family's legal battle wasn't over yet.

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Speaker 2: The last time you walked out of the courtroom was

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Speaker 2: for the murder for hire that happened last year, and

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Speaker 2: that was like, Okay, this is finally, like we can

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Speaker 2: close the book and move on with our lives. Did

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Speaker 2: you think that you were done with this?

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Speaker 1: Oh? I absolutely knew he was going to appeal. There's

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Speaker 1: no way he wasn't going to find some kind of loophole.

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Speaker 1: I mean, my sister and I've had tons of conversations

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Speaker 1: where she said to me, the law library is going

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Speaker 1: to know him. He's going to be there. He's going

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Speaker 1: to try to find a loophole. You just need to

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Speaker 1: prepare for this to be a regular thing for him

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Speaker 1: to try to find ways out of this.

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Speaker 2: Stacy eventually spotted a change on Justin's docketsheet and then

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Speaker 2: she got formal notification in the mail the appeal was happening.

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Speaker 2: What is he appealing exactly?

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Speaker 1: From what I understand, he is appealing the length of

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Speaker 1: the sentence that he believes it was too harsh, and

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Speaker 1: he's appealing his access to the children.

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Speaker 2: Originally, Justin was sentenced to twenty six years and ten

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Speaker 2: months to seventy years in prison, with twelve years probation

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Speaker 2: to follow his sentence. The judge also ordered that Justin

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Speaker 2: was to have no contact with Tyler or his two

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Speaker 2: younger siblings for the length of his sentence, even once

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Speaker 2: they became adults. Are you prepared for that being changed?

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Speaker 1: I wanted to give them that window of them being

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Speaker 1: little to them to get to eighteen, you know, to say, okay,

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Speaker 1: I can make an informed decision whether or not I

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Speaker 1: want to talk to my biological father or not. The

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Speaker 1: judge extended it past that eighteen for.

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Speaker 2: The length of a sentence.

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Speaker 1: For the length of his sentence and The only thing

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Speaker 1: that Tyler and I had talked about was that they

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Speaker 1: should be able to decide at eighteen if they want

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Speaker 1: to speak to him or not. As far as him

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Speaker 1: getting anything granted back to him, you know, when they're children.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the day, I have custody of them.

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Speaker 1: I'm the one that would have to accept the phone

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Speaker 1: calls from him. I'm the one that would have to

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Speaker 1: put money on my account for them to speak to him.

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Speaker 1: So I don't care if his rights get given back

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Speaker 1: to him to talk to them, it still has to

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Speaker 1: go through me, right, And I don't have any desire

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Speaker 1: for him to speak to my children. Yeah, And you know,

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Speaker 1: I will support them if that's something that they want

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Speaker 1: when they get of an age to make those kind

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Speaker 1: of decisions where they know everything that happened, because I

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Speaker 1: understand that they probably will maybe someday want that right.

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Speaker 2: I can understand and hold space for when they are adults. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, as a mom, like wanting to look to

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Speaker 2: the future of your kid having agency as an adult

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Speaker 2: and being able to give them that agency, I can

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Speaker 2: understand that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Stacy has not had contact with Justin since she learned

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Speaker 2: about his plot to kill Tyler. It's been over two years,

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Speaker 2: but recently she started writing letters to him as a

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Speaker 2: way of dealing with her emotions.

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Speaker 1: I've done it a few times in the last few

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Speaker 1: months and never mailed anything.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: I would write it and I would hold on to it,

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Speaker 1: and then I would just throw it away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One of the ones that I threw away was pretty vicious,

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Speaker 1: and my sister was like, yeah, I don't think you

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Speaker 1: should send that because you might go to jail for

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Speaker 1: a threat. Because it was just in the moment, I

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Speaker 1: was very angry. I was having one of those days.

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Speaker 2: Like where is all this anger and emotion coming from recently?

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Speaker 1: I just think when you are going through everything first

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Speaker 1: being found out, you're like living on adrenaline and you're

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Speaker 1: just in survival mode. And then as soon as the

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Speaker 1: trial stuff starts, then you're dealing with all of that,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think you really have time to sit

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Speaker 1: down and deal with like everything, so you just put

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Speaker 1: first what needs to be put first. I think after

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Speaker 1: all the stuff was done with both of the court

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Speaker 1: cases and everything like that, things guy felt settled down

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But I think that's when all the

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Speaker 1: other shit starts to kick in, you know, the missing

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Speaker 1: things and hurting and then being angry.

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Speaker 2: Stacey decided to mail one of her most recent letters.

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Speaker 2: In this letter, she mentions Nanny deep, Nanny's like a

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Speaker 2: mother to Justin, and she's the only one who's remain

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Speaker 2: in his corner. Stacy also writes about her financial situation.

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Speaker 2: Justin was the breadwinner in the family. With him gone,

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Speaker 2: Stacy's been left holding the bag, supporting her two young

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Speaker 2: children on her own. Here's the letter. Nanny asked me

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Speaker 2: the other day if you could have the kids signed

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Speaker 2: up for a charity that provides toys for children of

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Speaker 2: incarcerated parents. And I can't help but think the last

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Speaker 2: thing we need is more toys if in the next

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Speaker 2: few years we may not even be able to afford

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Speaker 2: a home to put those toys in. Yeah, that's my

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Speaker 2: reality these days, that's your children's reality.

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Speaker 1: These days. I see no light at.

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Speaker 2: The end of this tunnel. I remember you telling me

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Speaker 2: I'd never have to live like this again, and I'm

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Speaker 2: worse off. So when you heard about the kid's charity

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Speaker 2: of toys of incarcerated parents, it was your first reaction anger.

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Speaker 1: I just I think I was more just like, what

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Speaker 1: what the fuck, like this is what we're worried about,

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Speaker 1: like him making sure that the kids have a gift

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Speaker 1: from him, and oh, but you know, isn't it nice

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Speaker 1: that you're allowing someone else to buy that for you

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Speaker 1: to give to them so that you don't have to

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Speaker 1: spend any of your money that you need to spend

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Speaker 1: on your lawyer for you know, a gift for your kids.

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Speaker 2: Justin has a private attorney, and this infuriates Stacy. He

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Speaker 2: somehow has the money to pay for his appeal but

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Speaker 2: has contributed nothing to the care of their children.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it just it rubbed me wrong, and

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Speaker 1: I was just salty for a little bit about it.

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Speaker 2: Right, It kind of just seems like he wants to

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Speaker 2: be able to contribute in this way, but he's not

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Speaker 2: understanding the larger impact that all of his actions have

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Speaker 2: put you and the kids in.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: Like it just felt like you were shaking him with

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Speaker 2: this letter of like you don't really know how bad

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Speaker 2: things are because of everything that you've done.

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Speaker 1: I am able to buy my kids things. It's not

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Speaker 1: like I'm totally destitute, but you're using a charity for

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Speaker 1: children who may not get a single thing when you know,

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Speaker 1: good and well, you have money in your account, so

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Speaker 1: you want to come in and be fun. Daddy, you know, ooh, look,

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Speaker 1: daddy sent us a present when you really didn't do

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Speaker 1: anything behind that.

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Speaker 2: In December, right around the holidays, we caught up with

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Speaker 2: Stacy Rutherford, whose story we highlighted in season three. Recently,

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Speaker 2: she wrote a letter to her ex husband justin while

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Speaker 2: he remains in prison. Stacy shared that letter with us.

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Speaker 2: There's this theme in your letter where you talk about,

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Speaker 2: you know, you promised me that things were going to

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Speaker 2: be different, like it had already gone through a divorce,

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Speaker 2: I had already gotten pretty far on raising two kids

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Speaker 2: to end up in this place. That's a really intense

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Speaker 2: cycle to be thinking about.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's like I remember saying to him when we

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Speaker 1: were dating, jokingly, I'm not trying to be a single

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Speaker 1: mom again to two small children. I've done it. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to do it again. Okay, I'm just letting

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Speaker 1: you know that you're either going to be married to

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Speaker 1: me or I'm going to soak the life out of

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Speaker 1: you for child support, So just be prepared for whichever

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Speaker 1: one you want. And you know we would, he'd always

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Speaker 1: say to me I wouldn't do what your first husband

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Speaker 1: did to you and just walk out on you and

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Speaker 1: basically leave you with nothing. And it's frustrating to be

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Speaker 1: told you'll never have to worry about that again, Stacy,

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Speaker 1: You'll never have to, you know, worry about anything like this.

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Speaker 1: And to have more children, and I love them and

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't trade that, of course, but you know, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have necessarily decided to have two more children in

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Speaker 1: my life late thirties if I thought that I was

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Speaker 1: going to be raising them by myself.

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Speaker 2: It's so interesting. It's like, no matter the amount of

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Speaker 2: conversations and things that you think that you're navigating and communicating,

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Speaker 2: your brain just doesn't go to this worst case scenario.

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Speaker 2: You just don't go there.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, it's just that like, how dare you? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how dare you promise so many things that you had

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Speaker 1: to know deep down you were never going to be

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Speaker 1: able to follow through. You know. It's just it's I

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Speaker 1: don't know. There's days that I think to myself that

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Speaker 1: I'm not the mom that I want to be. I

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Speaker 1: don't want my kids to remember that I cried a lot,

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Speaker 1: or that I was sad, or that I was just

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Speaker 1: angry all the time because I've gotten I think, to

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Speaker 1: a level of anger a lot late, Like I just

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Speaker 1: feel like I'm really angry at the world and men

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Speaker 1: and people, and I don't want them to remember that

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Speaker 1: I'm just angry. Yeah, I'm just angry that so many

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Speaker 1: of these things were taken away from all of us.

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Speaker 2: It's impossible to even ask this, but like, what are

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Speaker 2: you going to do about this anger?

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Speaker 1: Well? To start, I have like not been the greatest

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Speaker 1: lately about my going to you know, therapy, and I've

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Speaker 1: kind of let myself get in a rut lately, like

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Speaker 1: I find myself, you know, declining plans all the time.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm good, I'm just gonna stay home or oh,

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Speaker 1: my bro's already off er you know, I ain't putting

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Speaker 1: that back on. But I also think to myself, is

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Speaker 1: that contributing to me? Do I need to force myself

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Speaker 1: to do these things? Yeah? Because am I just making

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Speaker 1: it worse by staying home and festering on the fact

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Speaker 1: that I'm alone and isolating and things like that. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I think that was part

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Speaker 1: of writing the letter to him, was I just I

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Speaker 1: just want you to know this is the kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff that you have left me with.

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Speaker 2: All of it feels like such an injustice and sometimes

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Speaker 2: you just need to like scream it from the mountaintops

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Speaker 2: and the person that really needs to hear it. You

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Speaker 2: just want to just like shove, you know, put it

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Speaker 2: out there and scream it so that they hear you.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it did make me feel better at some

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Speaker 1: point to write it. It just happened to be the

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Speaker 1: one that I mailed. I don't know, I just must

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Speaker 1: have been impulsive that day because the rest of him

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Speaker 1: never made it.

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Speaker 2: Progress is not a straight line. And there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of similar rhetoric in this letter of where you were

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Speaker 2: like in the beginning of a lot of things, you know,

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Speaker 2: and you're gonna make strides and getting yourself to a

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Speaker 2: different place and then come back to these feelings that

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Speaker 2: you have regarding this and one day, I really do

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Speaker 2: hope you find that whatever feeling that you're longing for,

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Speaker 2: you get it on your own. Yeah, And I do

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Speaker 2: believe that you will get there.

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Speaker 1: It's just like you said at Ebbs and Flows, I

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Speaker 1: felt like it's really hung on lately. But I also

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Speaker 1: say to my sister too, sometimes like I look at

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Speaker 1: where I am now and I look at where I

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Speaker 1: was three years ago, and there is a difference. So

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Speaker 1: I can see change, and I can see that I

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Speaker 1: have happy moments and that I enjoy life and things

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Speaker 1: like that. I don't just sit around, you know, and

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Speaker 1: cry all the time. I obviously go have fun, but

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Speaker 1: I just have my moments, yeah, you know. And it

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Speaker 1: hits at just different times in this here. Lately, it's

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Speaker 1: been hanging on.

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Speaker 2: After the break, we'll hear from Stacy's son, Tyler. Before

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Speaker 2: we go, we wanted to share an update on Stacy's

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Speaker 2: sun Tyler. Over the last year, he's been sharing a

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Speaker 2: lot of updates on his own What's Up.

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Speaker 3: My name is Tyler. I've made a goal with myself

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Speaker 3: to post on TikTok as much as I can.

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Speaker 2: His goal is to be an advocate for male survivors

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Speaker 2: of trauma.

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Speaker 3: I want to build a community for men out there,

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Speaker 3: especially men like me out there. I've had a very

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Speaker 3: traumatic life and went through some crazy things, and ever

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Speaker 3: since then, I've felt kind of lost. And I know

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Speaker 3: many men out there that I've went through the same

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Speaker 3: thing can feel that exact same feeling, even if you

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Speaker 3: haven't been through that exact traumatic experience or been sexually assaulted.

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Speaker 3: I want to reach out to men and make a

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Speaker 3: change in the men's space.

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Speaker 2: Push this.

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Speaker 3: Let's build an awesome community together, guys.

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Speaker 4: Let's do this.

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Speaker 2: Through betrayal and through Tyler's posts, his story has reached

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Speaker 2: a lot of people. We've received so many comments and

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Speaker 2: emails calling Tyler an inspiration for speaking up. My producer

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Speaker 2: met with Tyler and asked him how it feels to

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Speaker 2: get all that positive feedback. It's crazy.

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Speaker 3: I expected a little bit, not maybe quite as much

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Speaker 3: as I've gotten, and it's heartwarming to read. I know

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Speaker 3: that I achieved what I wanted to with the podcast

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Speaker 3: when I get something like that just to help someone else.

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Speaker 2: For so long, Tyler thought he'd take what Justin did

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Speaker 2: to him to his grave.

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Speaker 3: I think about it all the time, like my plan

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Speaker 3: to just never say anything because that's what was going

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Speaker 3: to happen. And I was doing pretty damn good at

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Speaker 3: it for quite a while.

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Speaker 2: But when it came out that Justin had abused tyler friend,

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Speaker 2: Tyler's family was concerned that he too was a victim.

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Speaker 2: They kept asking him until he eventually disclosed to his aunt.

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Speaker 2: Many male victims of sexual abuse keep what happened to

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Speaker 2: them a secret for their whole lives. For example, Anthony Edwards,

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Speaker 2: an actor Tyler spoke with in season three, didn't disclose

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Speaker 2: for decades.

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Speaker 4: I lived most of my life in fear because my

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Speaker 4: experience of having been assaulted as a kid set me

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Speaker 4: up for being afraid and not trusting in people, places,

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Speaker 4: or things. And it wasn't until I was fifty two

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Speaker 4: years old did I start talking about it and looking

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Speaker 4: at it.

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Speaker 3: It was one of the worst feelings to get it

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Speaker 3: forced out of me, but like now, I'm so happy

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Speaker 3: I did, because I know how bad I feel sometimes

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Speaker 3: and I can't imagine how crazy my mind would be

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Speaker 3: trying to says all this At fifty two, I still

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Speaker 3: feel the pain of holding it in for seven eight years,

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Speaker 3: however long letting it out at sixteen, and that's like,

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Speaker 3: that's young. I'm still a kid compared to these guys

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Speaker 3: holding in sixty years. I can't imagine.

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Speaker 2: No. I also wanted to hear about Tyler's career. When

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Speaker 2: we last talked, he was considering going into the military,

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Speaker 2: but it's always been clear to me that fitness is

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Speaker 2: Tyler's first love. He even did a TikTok about it.

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Speaker 3: The gym is a great release from everyday stress, a

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Speaker 3: release from life. In the last few years, I honestly

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Speaker 3: have felt kind of lost, and I just feel like

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Speaker 3: I'm always scrambling to find myself. And the one place

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Speaker 3: where I feel like I can really find myself is

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Speaker 3: in the gym. The gym is my safe space and

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Speaker 3: I go to feel safe.

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Speaker 2: When I was with Tyler last he took me to

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Speaker 2: the gym and we had a great time, so I

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Speaker 2: was excited to learn.

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Speaker 3: I just recently pulled the trigger on a personal trainer

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Speaker 3: certification just because, like, fitness is my one passion, i'd say,

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Speaker 3: and I just love to make money off of it.

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Speaker 3: Hopefully I'll be finishing that soon and can get a

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Speaker 3: job as a personal trainer.

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Speaker 2: Earlier in this episode, Tyler's mom Stacey, told us that

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Speaker 2: Justin is appealing the length of his sentence and his

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Speaker 2: ability to contact his children. We asked Tyler what he

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Speaker 2: made of Justin's appeal.

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Speaker 3: I'm not surprised, honestly, but I mean, that's all prisoners

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Speaker 3: are going to do. That he can continue to try.

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Speaker 3: Ain't shit gonna work. I mean, I really don't see

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Speaker 3: anything happening. Worse comes to worse, he wins some sort

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Speaker 3: of appeal, and I have to go to trial. And

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Speaker 3: now that I'm older and I've grown to balls to

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Speaker 3: talk out to millions about my story, He's really screwed

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Speaker 3: himself at this point, and I think if we go

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Speaker 3: to trial, I'm just gonna put him away for even longer.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not worried about any of that. Really Pinnky trying.

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Speaker 2: At this point, Tyler feels sorry for Justin.

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Speaker 3: I was talking to my mom last night about his computer,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, I wonder whatever happened to his computer?

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Speaker 2: Tyler's referencing the fact that Justin encrypted his computer when

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Speaker 2: he knew the authorities were onto him. Tyler still thinks

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Speaker 2: about that years later.

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Speaker 3: She was like, Oh, they got into it a few

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Speaker 3: months ago, And I was like, you mean to tell

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Speaker 3: me our government it took them three years to get

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Speaker 3: into his computer. I was like, that there alone just

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Speaker 3: tells me the potential he wasted. The fact that you

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Speaker 3: were smart enough to crack down a computer so hard

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Speaker 3: our own fucking government could not get into it for

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Speaker 3: three years? How did he do that? The fact that

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Speaker 3: you did that and then put yourself in jail. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think we would have been one of the richest

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Speaker 3: families in the world if he would have not touched me, Like,

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Speaker 3: if he could have just not been a pedophile, we

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Speaker 3: would have been so successful. I tell Mom all the time,

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Speaker 3: he really fucked shit up. Smartest person I know. I'll

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Speaker 3: still say to this day. By far, I'm not saying

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Speaker 3: in all senses. Don't think I'm putting him on a

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Speaker 3: high horse. I'm just saying, with as much as he did,

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Speaker 3: I can still admit he was pretty damn smart.

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Speaker 2: At the end of the chat, we asked Tyler what

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Speaker 2: else he wanted people to know.

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Speaker 3: I want people to know I'm not I'm not down

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Speaker 3: in the dumps, but I'm also not perfect. I'm not

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Speaker 3: at the end of my road. I'm still probably not

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Speaker 3: even seventy five percent away down. I'm probably around the middle.

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Speaker 3: I'd say I'm probably around there. I don't know. It's

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Speaker 3: it's hell a lot of the time, it really is.

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Speaker 3: I Mean, I wake up and I feel like shit immediately.

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Speaker 3: I just know the right things to do to stop that. Now,

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Speaker 3: I just got to get there. I just want people

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Speaker 3: to know that I'm not perfect, and anyone else out

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Speaker 3: there that's going through some similar stuff, you just gotta

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Speaker 3: keep working on it. I mean, I know it sucks,

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Speaker 3: it really does. I'd love to not have to constantly

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Speaker 3: work on myself and just not have this trauma and

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Speaker 3: be quote unquote normal, But it's part of life and

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Speaker 3: you just gotta deal with it, so got work hard

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Speaker 3: to be happy.

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Speaker 2: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team,

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Speaker 2: email us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal

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Speaker 2: Pod at gmail dot com. Also, please be sure to

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Speaker 2: follow us at Glass Podcasts on Instagram for all Betrayal content,

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Speaker 2: news and updates. We're grateful for your support. One way

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Speaker 2: to show support is by subscribing to our show on

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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to rate and review Betrayal.

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Speaker 2: Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank

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Speaker 2: you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production

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Speaker 2: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in

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Speaker 2: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by

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Speaker 2: Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me

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Speaker 2: Andrea Gunning, produced by Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart Team is

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Speaker 2: Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Special thanks to Stacy Rutherford,

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Speaker 2: Tyler and the rest of Stacy and Tyler's friends and family.

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Speaker 2: Audio editing and mixing by Matt save Ekio editing support

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Speaker 2: from Tanner Robbins. The traials theme composed by Oliver Bains.

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Speaker 2: Music library provided by Mob Music and For more podcasts

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Speaker 2: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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Speaker 2: you get your podcasts.