1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Johnny Depp versus Amber heard 2 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: It's still going yes in a court of law. I 3 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is crime story. Thank you for being 4 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation. And Sirius XM one eleven, 5 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: Captain Jack Sparrow's side is still giving it two in 6 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: the last hour. Is a security guard Travis McGivern on 7 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: the stand now a talent manager and he goes on 8 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 1: and on and all. But I want you to take 9 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut twenty seven. This is witness 10 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: Tara Roberts. What happened after they went back up to 11 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: the house. Um, c J and I were still in 12 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: the office and weren't really sure. Decided that maybe it 13 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: would be best if we just drove up there, just 14 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: to make sure that everything was okay. You could hear them, 15 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: and you can hear them inside. You could hear inside 16 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: the house yelling her Amber yelling and Johnny answering back, 17 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: and you could really hear what was being said. We 18 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: stood there for a couple of minutes CJ and myself, 19 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: and then then you started to hear it became audible. 20 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: Amber was telling him that he was washed up actor, 21 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: he was gonna die a lonely, fat, lonely old man. 22 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: Then you heard you hit me with a can. You 23 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: heard Johnny say you hit me with a can. You know, 24 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: but I would put witnesses on the stand or cross 25 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: examine witnesses the other side had brought. I would always 26 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: look for detail. Is their story rich in detail? Do 27 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: they mention that is? They likely wouldn't dream up like um, 28 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: Then it started raining, or it suddenly got cloudy, or 29 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: I heard a car screech breaks, and then just the 30 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: way a description is given. You know, what is interesting 31 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: to me about Tara Roberts testimony on the stand is 32 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: that she says, at first you could hear yelling. You 33 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: could tell that it was Amber Heard and Johnny Depp, 34 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: and then suddenly it became audible in that I can 35 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: make out the words Amber Heard was telling Dipp he 36 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: was a quote washed up actor going to die a fat, 37 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: lonely old man. And then I heard, quote, you hit 38 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: me with a can. Depp said you hit me with 39 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: a can. The way she described that sequence is very 40 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: telling to me because if the detail involved when making 41 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: up a story, very often you don't hear that kind 42 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: of detail. Again, I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 43 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nations 44 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: Series one eleven. The Depth trial is raging? Is Captain 45 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: Jack Sparrow in trouble with me? And I'll start panel 46 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: and make sense of what we know right now. Daryl Cohen, 47 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: high profile lawyer joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. 48 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists. You can find to her 49 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: at angela Arnold MD dot com. John Gard chief deputy 50 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:41,119 Speaker 1: at the Pitt County Sheriff's Office specializing in domestic violence cases. 51 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: But first to Alexis terres Chuck Crime online dot com, 52 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: investigative reporter on the case from the very beginning. Alexis, 53 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: what has been happening today in Core give me a rundown? 54 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: So Johnny Depp's side is still teptifine. He is still 55 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: presenting his case. This morning. We have had his security guard, 56 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: Travis McGinnis, and he is talking about a big fight 57 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: and that there's been testimony and Amber has said that 58 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: her sister stepped in between Johnny and Amber during a fight, 59 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: and the security guard said that is not true. The 60 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: sister was not in between them, because I was in 61 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: between them, and he is the security guard that was 62 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: his security guard for many, many years. So he is 63 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: once again shooting down Amber's claims of what happened during 64 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: all of these fights, and she brought her sister into it, 65 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: who was there at the time, and Johnny side, this 66 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: security guard is saying, Nope, that isn't true. Here is 67 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: what really happened. I was there. I was the one 68 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 1: in the middle of it, trying to make sure that 69 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: Johnny and Amber weren't going to fight with each other. 70 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: And notably, now you have to consider the source when 71 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: you're listening to testimony by a long time Johnny Depth 72 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: security guard who was clearly Depth's friend but also makes 73 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: his living off Depp as a security guard. Does that 74 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: mean he's not telling the truth. Nope. But you always 75 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: look for a pecuniary or money interest or any interest 76 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: whatsoever when a witnesses. A witness is testifying to determine credibility. 77 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: So what he is saying this, Travis McGivern, is that 78 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: Amber heard punched Depp on the left side of his face, 79 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: which I would wonder is she right handed to punch somebody? 80 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: If you're right handed, you'll normally land the blow. On 81 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: their left side of the face. But she is not 82 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: being tried for abusing him. The trial right now is 83 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: to determine was she telling the truth when she said 84 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: she had been abused by Depp. Now to you, Daryl 85 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: co enjoining me, longtime prosecutor now civil and criminal defense attorney, Daryl. 86 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: This witness McGivern. Travis McGivern is stating that Amber's sister's 87 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: account was wrong. But to my knowledge, Amber's sister has 88 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: not testified. Maybe she was brought up in opening statements 89 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: by the defense, which could open the door. But you've 90 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: got to go through a lot of legal hurdles to 91 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: impeach someone's testimony that hasn't testified. Nancy, this is a 92 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: great trial. I love it. Nobody's going to go to prison, 93 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: nobody's going to be acquitted or convicted. It's just about 94 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: money and it's a soap opera. It's Hollywood coming from 95 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: Los Angeles to Virginia. Wouldn't you love to be a 96 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: juror on this trial. You'll write a book. It'll be fabulous. 97 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: But let's talk about it now. You and I have 98 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: very different opinions I guess as to what it means 99 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: to be on a trial, you immediately said, write a book. Okay, 100 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: so you're a Hollywood lawyer. I get it. Can we 101 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: get back? Let me read direct? Is what I would 102 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: say in court. Is your honor objection? The witness is 103 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 1: not being responsive to the question. The question is, let 104 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: me refresh your recollection, Daryl. How can this security person, 105 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: Travis McGivern contradict the sister's testimony if she hasn't already testified. 106 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: Maybe they're bringing in her deposition. You know, Nancy, if 107 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: he said she said. If Amber's sister takes a stand 108 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: and testifies and says, yes, it was me that stood 109 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: in between them, what is a jury going to believe? 110 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: Is there video of this? Is there audio of this? 111 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: Was there a ring barnbell that was videoing an audio 112 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: all of this? The answer is no. So it becomes 113 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: a question of who the jury believes, if either of them, 114 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: who the jury disbelieves, possibly both of them, And it 115 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Remember when you and I used to try 116 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: cases as prosecutors, would have a psychiatrist say the defendant 117 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: was literally knowing what he or she was doing and 118 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: they were not, as you would say, crazy, and then 119 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: the defense would bring any such headdress. That said, all 120 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: my client didn't know right from wrong. The but not 121 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: rule doesn't matter, So it becomes a question of who 122 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: you want to believe. You look at money, language, facial expressions, 123 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: and then the jury makes their decision, and here does 124 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: it really matter you answer that question? I can't, Okay, 125 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: you know, what did he just say? Because I was 126 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: asking about the sister testimony, which has not happened. But 127 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: yet the depth sign has brought in a witness to 128 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: contradict her testimony. Her testimony must have been brought in 129 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: some other way. In other words, you can't contradict something 130 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: that hasn't happened yet. That said, let's get back I'm 131 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: clearly not going to ring an answer out of Daryl Cohen. 132 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: Let's go back to what's happening in the courtroom. Speaking 133 00:08:54,880 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: of psychiatrists, and I mean this and a loving and 134 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: caring way. Take a listen to Jenny Norman, our friend 135 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: at GMA and our cut twenty four. This is a 136 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 1: bombshell of a trial that's garnering millions of viewers every 137 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: day that Johnny Depp and Amber heard head back to 138 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: court between live streams, TV coverage, even people lining up 139 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: every morning outside to try to get a coveted seat 140 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: inside the courtroom to hear the testimony from the star 141 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: actors about their allegations against each other. Actor Johnny Depp 142 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: and ex wife Amber Heard back in court this morning, 143 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: facing off in their contentious trial centered on a fifty 144 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: million dollar defamation suit. On Tuesday, a psychologist taking the stand, 145 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: testifying dep Amber Heard suffers from borderline personality disorder, a 146 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: condition driven by an underlying fear of abandonment, and historionic 147 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: personality disorder, a condition she says is associated with drama 148 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: and shallowness. She had a very sophisticated way of minimizing 149 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: any personal problems, a tendency to be very self righteou, 150 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: but to also deny that self righteousness and to judge 151 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: others critically against these sort of high standards. High standards 152 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: on the part of Amber Heard. Listen, I'm not on 153 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: depth side. I mean, I love Captain Jack Sparrow, but 154 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: that's not real depth Israel, and I'm not on her side. 155 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: I would like to know the truth or does it 156 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: just boil down to, as I've said before, to wet 157 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: cats and a barrel callawing and fighting it out and 158 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: the jury's not really going to end up liking either 159 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: one of them. Time stories with Nancy Grace back to 160 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: the high standards of Amber heard, according to the witnesses 161 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: just been on the stand. The longtime security guard, a 162 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: nine year veteran of Depths security team. He says that 163 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: Amber heard spit on Debt and threw a red bull 164 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: can at him, calling him an effing deadbeat dad and 165 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: an effing C word. High standards. I don't know about that, 166 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: but people say a lot of things when they're angry. 167 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: They wouldn't normally say. Let me go straight out to 168 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us today at Angela 169 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: Arnold md dot com. What do you make of this 170 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: diagnosis of borderline personality disorder and histrionic personality disorder? Well, 171 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,839 Speaker 1: Nancy both. I think it takes a little bit longer 172 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: than twelve hours to diagnose that, but a well trained 173 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: therapist can diagnose those disorders. And somebody pete people. It's 174 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: typically very apparent to me when I'm working with something 175 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: like that. Okay, what do you mean? And as I 176 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: tell witnesses and others quite often, please do not refer 177 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: to he they we see it, Please give it a 178 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: proper name. Who what what are you talking about? Patients 179 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: who have who have borderline personality disorder, even borderline tendencies, 180 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: act in a certain They all act in a certain way. 181 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 1: Typically when you first meet them, they're very lovable. They 182 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: don't come off as as being volatile or unlikable. They're 183 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: typically very likable when you first meet them because they 184 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: want you to like them back, okay. And it's only 185 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: after a bit of time that they start to feel 186 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: comfortable with you that they start to test you, and 187 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: they start to test the limits that they're supposed to 188 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: just just typical social limits that we're supposed to live 189 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: with them. They also have in saying that. So first, 190 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 1: they're very they're kind, they bring you gifts, they shower 191 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: you with praise. That's how you know it's coming, okay, Nancy. 192 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: They have a very difficult time regulating their emotions. That's 193 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: what this is all about, isn't it. A person with 194 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: borderline personality disorder has a difficult time regulating their emotions, 195 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: and therefore they have very rocky relationship. I've got to 196 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: stop you because you've already said several things that I 197 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: don't know what you mean, first of all, so they 198 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: will test social limits with you. Please give me an example. 199 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: I've had instances where in which patients show up to 200 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 1: my office after their appointment is over, so they're late, 201 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: but they still come to my office, bang on the door, 202 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: and wait for me in the parking garage. Got it, 203 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: I get it. Okay, that's all you need to tell me. 204 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: So with a viriline personality disorder, they would do something 205 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: like me very nice to you at the get go, 206 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: and then begin to test social limits. I understand that. 207 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 1: Did you ever watch Monk? He certainly tested his psychiatrist 208 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: social limits. And Nancy, do you want to know why 209 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: they do that? Why they do it because at the 210 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: very at their very core, they fear abandonment for one 211 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: reason or another. Something happens to them in their childhood 212 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: and they fear abandonment. So they test the person harder 213 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: and harder and harder to see is this person going 214 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: to abandon me? So if you don't abandon abandon them 215 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: after one point, then then they up the ante. You 216 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: said they have a problem regulating their emotions their behavior. 217 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: That's right, you said, amations. So yes, what do you 218 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: mean by that? Well? What I mean by that is okay, 219 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: as we grow up. As we grow up, we learn 220 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: that even though we might want to cut somebody off 221 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: when we're driving down the street, or shake our fists 222 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: at them, or yell at somebody if they if they 223 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: do something out to us, we learn that we can't 224 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: do that. They can't. Something happens in the development of 225 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: a person that has borderline personality disorder that they because 226 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: of their abandonment issues or their neglects that they've suffered 227 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:19,239 Speaker 1: growing up, Nancy, they have to speak louder to be heard. Okay, 228 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: they have to speak louder. So if you're neglected, what 229 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: do you do? You cry louder so that somebody hears you. Right, So, 230 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: no one pays attention to them when they're little, so 231 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: they don't know how to contain their emotions and still 232 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: get attention. I like everything that well, I don't necessarily 233 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: like it, but I understand, and I may agree with you. 234 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: But see, when you're on the stand and you keep talking, 235 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: at some point, the jury is gonna lose. The gist 236 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: of it is going to get lost, and the sauce. 237 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: But I get it. Okay, you're saying that, are you 238 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: saying you do or do not agree with the diagnosis? 239 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: I do you do agree? Okay, take a listen to 240 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: our cut twenty three. This is the doctor now, doctor 241 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: Shen and Curry on the witness stand. I also conducted 242 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: the clinician administered PTSD Scale TOCAPS five, which is the 243 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: gold standard PTSD assessment developed by the National Center for PTSD, 244 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: shown to be valid accurate for use not just with 245 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: service members, but also with civilians, men, women, all genders, 246 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: and also all ethnicities, and then also specifically for use 247 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: in a courtroom setting. As a result of applying those protocols, 248 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: what did you conclude? Miss Heeard did not have PTSD 249 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: And there were also pretty significant indications that she was 250 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: grossly exaggerating symptoms of PTSD when asked about them. Okay, 251 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: that's not going to help anything if this jury believes 252 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: she is eager reading straight out to John Guard, chief 253 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: deputy with the Pitt County Sheriff's Office joining us from 254 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: North Carolina who specializes in investigating domestic violence cases. Deputy Guard, 255 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Okay. I worked, as 256 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, at crime Con. I just got 257 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: back from crime Con. I ran into a woman I 258 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: didn't recognize her face, but when I heard a voice, 259 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: I did that. We knew each other years ago from 260 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: the District Attorney's office when I would volunteer at night 261 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: nine years at the Batter Women's Center. I worked with 262 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: a lot of batter women in and out of court. 263 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: But what we're hearing right now is testimony from a 264 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: medical professional saying that Amber heard exaggerated with the doctor 265 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: with the psychologist, it was the lady I just played 266 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: for you, and she's explaining, is doctor Shannon Curry why 267 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: she thought am or Heard was exaggerating. You know, with 268 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: all the women I worked with, I never of course, 269 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: they were all beat up pretty badly. I never really 270 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: thought about them exaggerating because they were so obviously aggravated, assaulted. 271 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: There was bad What do you make of what this 272 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: doctor is saying? Yeah, it's really it's really difficult to 273 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: go with that. I mean, again, that's not my background. 274 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm generally working cases from a criminal end, and exactly 275 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: as you know, it's it's different in the in the 276 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: civil courts. I do know in domestic violent sexual assault 277 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: and other violent crimes, there is a level of trauma 278 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: that comes in and sometimes you know, things may be 279 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: fragmented when it's delivered to us as investigators. You mean, 280 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: when the victim gives her story, it may be fragmented. 281 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: What do you mean by that, Well, I mean if 282 00:18:55,359 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: you take, for an example, a victim of sexual assault, again, 283 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: very traumatic event, and sometimes when they're given their statement 284 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: to you, things may come across in a way that 285 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: folks that have not been sexually abused or not impacted 286 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: by trauma at the current time is gonna feel like 287 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: maybe they're gaps here. You know, I wouldn't I would 288 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: remember this if it occurred to me. But again, you know, 289 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: trauma impacts people in different ways, and I'm not saying 290 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: that's in this case. What I'm saying is, you know, 291 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,959 Speaker 1: it's it's really tough when you interview, as you know, 292 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: people that has experienced trauma. So kind of hard to 293 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: Monday morning quarterback people like that. You know. So from 294 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: a criminal end, it's easy for us in law enforcement 295 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: because we're looking at elements of a crime and we're 296 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: kind of checking it off, and you know, the facts 297 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: kind of dictate where we go with investigation. I mean, 298 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: we're at the end of the day, we're fact finders, 299 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: but this is a difficult a case, and I know 300 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: I was getting a lot of attension. Certainly. You know 301 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: Deputy Guard joining as Deputy John Guard out of Pitt 302 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: County in North Carolina, who specializes in domestic violence cases 303 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: that can happen. Many people find it difficult to believe 304 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:29,479 Speaker 1: that you can block out very traumatic events. But I 305 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: can tell you that around the time, and I mean 306 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: for a couple of years before and several years after 307 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 1: my fiance's murder, there's big chunks of memory loss. I 308 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: don't know if it's God's way to protect you. I 309 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: don't know what it is, but I can tell you 310 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: it's real that in mind. I want you to hear 311 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: what else this shrink has to say about Amber heard? 312 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:03,199 Speaker 1: Is it real? You just heard her state that she 313 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: found Amber her to be histrionic and that she did 314 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: not have post traumatic stress syndrome. But that's not all. 315 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut twenty five from GMA 316 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: psychologist Shannon Curry, who is not board certified and was 317 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: hired by Depth's team, examined her for twelve hours. She 318 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: also alleges that her did not suffer post traumatic stress 319 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: disorder from her relationship with Depth, despite her claims as 320 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: a result of applying those protocols of what did you conclude? 321 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: Misheard did not have PTSD, and there were also pretty 322 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: significant indications that she was grossly exaggerating symptoms of PTSD 323 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: when asked about them. Herd's attorneys questioning Curry over potential 324 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: bias after it was revealed she had dinner and drinks 325 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: with Depth before she was hired. You'd seen a number 326 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: of his TV and movie role and you believed he 327 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: was a good actor. Correct. Not correct. I did not 328 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: know Johnny Depp, knew several of his movies. You knew 329 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: who he was, Yes, okay, So knowing who he is 330 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: before you take the job doesn't mean that she's biased. 331 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: Of course, everybody on the stand, if you're getting paid 332 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: by one of the parties, is going to be cross 333 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: examined on that. I want to go back to what's 334 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: happening today. The security guard Travis mcgibborn on the stand. 335 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: We also know that he states that amber Heard spit 336 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: on Depth and threw a red bull can at him. 337 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: I mean, just common sense, Alexis terres Chuck. If the 338 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: jury thinks Amber Heard also brutalized Johnny Depp. How is 339 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: that going to affect their verdict? Well, this could really 340 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: be working in Johnny saber. You know. What he says 341 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: is that he was standing between them and Amber reached 342 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: out and punched Johnny on the left side of his face, 343 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: and that he had a swelling and a bruise in 344 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: a red mark for days afterwards. He said this, like 345 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,479 Speaker 1: she hit him. He was an eyewitness, he had been 346 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,239 Speaker 1: his security guard for years. And he also explained that 347 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: Amber Heard was not only rude to Johnny Depp, she 348 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: was rude to him. She said he was very demeaning 349 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: about the fact that he was simply just a security guard, 350 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: really snobby about, you know, his decision, that's his career, 351 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: really criticizing him for that, and saying that he said, 352 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: you know, she threw shaded him, which means that she 353 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: was really saying something mean about him. She was not 354 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: only rude to Johnny Depp, he says, but she was 355 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: also personally vindictive and rude to him. You know, I 356 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: think part of this, not only is it true, but 357 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, I think it's gonna turn the jury against 358 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: Amber Heard, and there's not a darn thing that can 359 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: be done about it because when you're playing, of which 360 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: in this case Johnny Depp is he's suing her after 361 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: she wrote an article calling him an abuser. It's his duty, 362 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: it's his burden under the law, to go first. So 363 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: they're gonna hear his whole side first. Nancy, you only 364 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: have one chance to make a first impression, and they 365 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: have heard his old side, will continue here to hear 366 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: his old side. And I agree it is not looking 367 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: good for Amber. Having said that there's something in boxing 368 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: called a counterpuncher, and when Amber and her team testifies, 369 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: I suspect they're going to try and turn it completely around. 370 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: And we've got to wash, he said. She said, they 371 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: both did. Many people wondering why this case was brought 372 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: talk about dirty laundry. Who take us an hour cut seventeen. 373 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: This is Johnny Depp on the stand. Listen, it's over. 374 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: You know you're done. So what did it do to me? 375 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: What effect did it have on me? No matter the 376 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: outcome of this trial, the second the allegations were made 377 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: against me, the accusations, the second that more and more 378 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: these things, as I said, metastasized, I'm turned into fodder 379 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: for the media. Once fat happens, or once that happened, 380 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: I lost then to Alexa's TERRESTI we understand that Amber 381 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: heard is taking the stand. Unlike in a criminal case 382 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: where the state has the burden of proof, the state 383 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: cannot call the accused, and a civil case, I mean 384 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: think back to O. J. Simpson when the Goldman family 385 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: sued Simpson. Simpson was called to the stand, Simon Simpson 386 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: was called to be deposed, give sworn testimony, and there's 387 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: no way out. So she is going to take the stand. 388 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: But she is bringing herself to the stand. Death is 389 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: not calling her to the stand. Is that correct, Alexis? 390 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: That is absolutely correct, And she could be on the 391 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: stand as soon as tomorrow, soon as May third, because 392 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: she wants to tell her side of the story. But 393 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: there's something very interesting that just happened with Amberhards. She 394 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: had hired a crisis PR firm to advise her during 395 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: this whole trial, and she just fired them and hired 396 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: a new crisis PR firm. So on top of all 397 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: these lawyers, you know, the millions of dollars that have 398 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: been spent on lawyers, she is using a crisis PR 399 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: firm because she understands that she is getting so much 400 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: bad pressed that people are really siding with Johnny Depp. 401 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: This is Johnny depp shining moment lately. He has really 402 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: won over the public with his testimony. And people do 403 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: not believe that amberhard was the victim at all here. 404 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: They believe that she is the one that was abusing him, 405 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: and that then she wrote that up ed even after 406 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: their divorce when she was not supposed to say anything 407 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: about it, and after Johnny gave her seven million dollars 408 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: and she was going to donate it to charity, and 409 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: she donated almost none of it to charity. She has 410 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: hired a crisis PR firm, hired them and hired a 411 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: new one today, and people are saying, but the first 412 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: time ever she walked into court this morning smiling and 413 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: hugged her attorney. She'd never done method. Observers in the 414 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: court had been saying that she'd never done that before. 415 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: And they think that this is a little ploy by 416 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: the crisis PR firm to have her image changed. You 417 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: know what, I think we're trying to make sense of 418 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: a nonsensical situation. I bet you that if you asked 419 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: a hundred people about what they think regarding the trial. 420 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: I bet you that ninety nine would say they hit 421 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: each other. Take a listen to our cut twenty nine. 422 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: This is depth on the stand. Mister Depp. Now that 423 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: the jury can see the photograph, can you again explain 424 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: what that green dot is identifying? Just to both, oh both, 425 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: the green dot is uh a wound from misheard taking 426 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: my cigarette and um, this is after the finger had 427 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 1: gone away. Um, and she stubbed it out in my 428 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: in my face, on my cheek. Daryl Cowen, if you're 429 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: representing Amber heard, good luck. Good luck with her claiming 430 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: oh he hit me because she gave as good as 431 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: she got. It sounds like and I'm not saying Depp 432 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: didn't hit her. I'm saying she also abused him, maybe 433 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: more than he abused her. So all goes back to 434 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: that op ed piece that she wrote for the Washington Post. 435 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: This is after the divorce, after the settlement, she writes 436 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: an article talking about how she is a domestic violence 437 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: a victim. He claims it defamed him, maligned him. She says, well, 438 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: I didn't put your name in there. Take us an 439 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,479 Speaker 1: hour cut thirty one, Robin. Her lawyers omitted them below. 440 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: But Amber would love to see a way to have 441 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: that part in bold somehow put back in? Is there 442 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: an artful way to do that? Otherwise? She is okay 443 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: with the final two years ago I sought a temporary 444 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: restraining order from my then husband Ellipses was changed to 445 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: two years ago after successfully acquiring a temporary restraining order, 446 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: but still not cleared by her lawyers. Do you see 447 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: that I did? Is that consistent with your understanding about 448 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: what Miss Herb's desires were? Yeah? Yeah, I trust Jessica 449 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: White's relationship with Amber so that when Jessica told Robin 450 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: that that was something Amber wanted, I have no reason 451 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: to think that that's not correct. So what I'm understanding, 452 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: do you aleccess to jointing from Crime online dot Com? 453 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: Her defense is one of them anyway, is I never 454 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: said your name in the article, so I couldn't defame you. 455 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: You weren't identified, But that's only because the post deleted 456 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,719 Speaker 1: his name. She wanted it back in. She did absolutely right, 457 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: and that's what the testimony has shown by the ACLU. 458 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: This doesn'tlike somebody that has worked for Johnny Depp for 459 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: twenty years or somebody who's a fan of his movie. 460 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: This is the head of an organization that has been 461 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: at the forefront, you know, of fighting for civil rights 462 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: across our country. This has nothing to do with her 463 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: being although I kind of think, you know, she was 464 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: giving them quite a few million dollars. They thought so. 465 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: They definitely seemed like they were a little bit star 466 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: struck in dealing with her. But Johnny Depp's name was 467 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: not in it. However, it referenced I was a victim. 468 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: She had filed a restraining order in public. The only 469 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: person she'd been with for the last you know, since 470 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: twenty eleven was Johnny Depp. Like it was Johnny Depp. 471 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: This was so clearly Johnny Depp could not have been anyone. 472 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: She also dated Elon Musk. It wasn't Elon Musk that 473 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: was after this. She really gave a very specific time 474 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: frame of when she would quote a victim of domestic abuse. Guys, 475 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: I want you to hear something is disturbing sound to 476 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: me anyway. I take a listen to our cut thirty two. 477 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: I can tell people that it was a fair fight 478 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: and was see was the journy judge space Johnny tell 479 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,719 Speaker 1: them Johnny Depp, I jn Depp man. I'm a big 480 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: consusled dress farm and you know it's a faverify it 481 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: se howby people at least or side of you. It 482 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if my ass And what did you say 483 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: in response when miss Hurd said tell the world, Johnny 484 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: tell them Johnny Depp? I, Johnny Depp A man, I'm 485 00:31:49,160 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: a victim too of domestic violence? I said, yes. Time 486 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace John Guard joining me special guests, 487 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: the chief deputy at pitt County Sheriff's Office specializing in 488 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,479 Speaker 1: investigating domestic violence cases. Did you it's almost as if 489 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: she is, well she is. She's taunting him, saying, who's 490 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: going to believe you when you claim you're a domestic 491 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: violence victim? Well again, um, it certainly doesn't look good 492 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: with that, you know, outside looking in at that. But 493 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you know, we have 494 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: to ask ourselves in these these scenarios, is there such 495 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: thing as provocation of violence? If that occurred? You know? 496 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: And alsers around the country face this every every day 497 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: when we respond to cases of endim partner violence. You're 498 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: not there when the event happened. Uh, you come in 499 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: and you do your best to investigate. We separate each 500 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: party and and try to get down to the bottom 501 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: um of of the case of what actually happened based 502 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: on you know, facts and things we're able to uncover 503 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: during our interviews. But again I can see where you know, 504 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: from outside looking in, you go, Klie, that could be 505 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: almost like you know, tempting or provocation or things things 506 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: like that. And uh, you know, for us again as 507 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: officers we look at criminal investigations, we have to weed 508 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: through all that and uh as an example, in cases 509 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: of of violence on both sides. Uh, in these these relationships, 510 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, we're trained to come in, investigate and determine 511 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: who the predominant addresser is based on a number of 512 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: different things, past history, size all that that type of information, 513 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: and make what we hope is the best decision impossible. 514 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: You said, the predominant aggressor, right, You're right, who is 515 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: the predominant aggressor in this? To doctor Angela Arnold, I 516 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 1: know you just heard everything. Deputy John Guard said, let 517 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 1: me ask you what is a histrionic personality? What is that? 518 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: Because the same doctor says heard has a histrionic personality 519 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: disorder Nancy. A histrionic personality disorder is one in which 520 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: people are very evasive, effusive with their their ornament. You're dramatic? 521 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: It does it? Does? It means you're very dramatic in 522 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: how And you know the funny thing, isn't it just 523 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,760 Speaker 1: for your viewers out there that this is very interesting. 524 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: Borderline personality disorder and histrionic personality disorders are in the 525 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: same category of personality disorders. Okay, So we have several 526 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: different categories of personality disorders and they're very similar personality 527 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: disorders and oftentimes occur in the same person. Guys, I 528 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: want you to also take a listen to our cut 529 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: twenty How long would it take until six rears its hit? Question? 530 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: The night before you were due to meet up, did 531 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: you have a heated discussion on the telephone with misheard 532 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: about what was happening with James Franco the scenes she 533 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: was doing with James Franco. Answer? I do not recall, 534 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: but it is highly likely. Did I read that right? 535 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: And you suspected that Amber was having an affair with 536 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: James Franco? Correct? That was the reason for your argument. Yeah, 537 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: And when you got on the plane, you considered that 538 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: she was also being judgmental toward you because she believed 539 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: that you were inebriated and under the influence of drugs. Correct, 540 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: That was a constant and I'm talking about this particular 541 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: plane flight. You consider that she was being judgmental towards 542 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: you because she believed you were inebriated and under the 543 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 1: influence of drugs when you got on this plane. Correct. Yes, 544 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: And at some point on the flight, you end up 545 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: sleeping on the bathroom floor. Right, I ended up sleeping 546 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: on the bathroom floor. Okay, I don't know who that helps, 547 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: but I did learn one thing. Alexis terres Chuck Depth 548 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: believed Amber Heard was having an affair with Franco, James Franco. 549 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: What does that have to do? Yes, only my question 550 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: that James Franco had been on the witness list for 551 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: Depth and now he's not. Is that correct? That is correct. 552 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 1: He has not shown up in court. But yeah, he 553 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,280 Speaker 1: believed that she was cheating on him. So she's accusing 554 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: him of drinking and doing drugs and these wildlifes, and 555 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: he's like, you are cheating on me. Was like another 556 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: celebrity who's not even nearly as famous as me, and 557 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: somebody who has a really bad reputation. So it was 558 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: very distressing. For him. Okay, I don't know if the 559 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,359 Speaker 1: two were cheating or not, but I do know he's 560 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,399 Speaker 1: been dropped from the witness list. Now, Daryl Cohen, let's 561 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: stay in the middle of the row, stay out of 562 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 1: the weeds. Why would Depth list Franco as a witness 563 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: and then not call him? Oh, let's called lightning from 564 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: a clear blue sky because Franco is not going to 565 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,720 Speaker 1: testify the way Johnny Depp wants him to test exactly. 566 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: Nancy sleeping on a bathroom floor on a plane, does 567 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: that tell you something. He wasn't not drunk, he wasn't 568 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: not high, he was drugging. So these two deserve each other. See, 569 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying that Depp didn't 570 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: hit her, and I'm not saying that he did hit 571 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 1: her because I find her to be very unbelievable and 572 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: a little dislikeable. But does that mean she wasn't hit No, 573 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't. But what you're saying is right. There was 574 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 1: a sudden u turn on calling James Franco to the stand, 575 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: and that only means one thing that his testimony was 576 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: not going to jibe with what Dept wanted. Alexis Treschuk 577 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: talking about Franco, talking about these two witnesses. Who's likable, 578 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: who's not likable. Did it come out that Amber heard 579 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: at the time of the split, demanded to Debt that 580 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: she could live in one of his three homes and 581 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 1: keep a black range Rover in exchange for her not 582 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: filing some kind of a complaint against him. Yes, So 583 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: she went to her lawyer and they went They sent 584 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: Johnny depp lawyer a note said Amber wants to live 585 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 1: in one of the three penhouses he owned, three penhouse departments. 586 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,399 Speaker 1: She wants to be able to live in all of those, 587 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: all three of them, not with Johnny. She wants to 588 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 1: keep a range Rover, and she wanted one hundred and 589 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: twenty five thousand dollars for legal fees immediately and another 590 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars spending money. She said. They said, you know, 591 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 1: we're going to keep this it private, but this is 592 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 1: what Amber would like. And then three or four days 593 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: later she went and filed a restraining order, putting everything 594 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,720 Speaker 1: out in the public. They're not keeping it at all private, 595 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,720 Speaker 1: and his lawyer. Johnny's lawyers testify that they basically felt 596 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: like this was almost like a blackmail, Like, if you 597 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: don't give us these three apartments penhouse apartments, These aren't 598 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: you know, one bedroom studio apartments. These are palatial, the 599 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: whole top floor these apartment buildings, and a fancy car 600 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 1: and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Immediately, we're going to 601 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: trash you in public. And that's exactly what they say 602 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: she did. Okay, Amber hears divorced demands revealed in a 603 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: letter submitted by the Johnny Depp lawyers, and it insists 604 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,879 Speaker 1: that she'd be able to live rent three and not one, 605 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 1: not two, but three plush apartments and keep the range 606 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 1: rover in exchange for keeping things quote out of the 607 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: media spotlight. I'm telling you, I love Edward scissor Hands 608 00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: and I love Captain Jack Sparrow, but these two, both 609 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: of them are getting very difficult to tolerate her demanding 610 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,919 Speaker 1: to live in three penthouse apartments and a range rover 611 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: in order to keep things from going public. You know what, 612 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: if I had been beaten, I'd be pretty sure I'd 613 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: be calling the cops and moving forward with domestic violence claims, 614 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: not trying to bargain my way in or out of it. 615 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: You know why, because I would not want my children 616 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: to grow up to think that was the kind of thing. 617 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,320 Speaker 1: You just bargain away, you beat me, Okay, can I 618 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: have the Range Rover? It just tastes bad. It's leaving 619 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: a bad taste in my mouth. We wait as just 620 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,760 Speaker 1: as sunfalse Nancy Grace crime story signing off, goodbye,