1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: have you ever been to a protest? Have you ever 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: been part of the protest movement in any way, shape 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: or form. M I have been in the cities before 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: we're protests were going on, and I was sort of 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: clueless and walking through them. Oh yeah, Well, I think 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: we've all done that to a certain extent, Like when 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: I when my wife and I went to Thailand several 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: years back, there was some protesting going on at the time, 12 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: and we just we were on the edges off and 13 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: we we knew it was going going on, but that 14 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: was about the extent of it. Yeah, And it's kind 15 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: of it's it's difficult to when you're on vacation because 16 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 1: you're not in protest you mind frame, So you might say, oh, 17 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: I support that, but you know, you probably have things 18 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: to do, You've got you know, the love to see, 19 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: so on and so forth, and I make light of it, 20 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: but seriously, it's it's something that it So that has 21 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: been happening a lot lately, is definitely on our minds, 22 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: and we're recording this mid November, and as of mid November, 23 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of protests unfolding over the summer 24 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: in this fall. So yeah, like just the other day 25 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: they cleared out the Occupy Wall Street. Yeah, that's right, 26 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: So that's sort of up in the air as to 27 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: what the fate will be of Occupy Wall Street. Now. 28 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: Protests as a whole have have been around for ages, 29 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,919 Speaker 1: like pretty much as as long as as human society 30 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: has been advanced enough to have laws and customs and 31 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: policies and cultural norms. Um, We've we've had reasons at 32 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: times to rebel against those norms. It's human instinct, right, 33 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: I mean you feel like some something has been uh, 34 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: there's some sort of un injustice going on in the 35 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: world that you need to write, right, and and we'll 36 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: talk about this a little bit more too, but it's 37 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: a little bit more complex. I mean obviously socio economic 38 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: issues come into play as well. Yeah. I tend to 39 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: think of it like a like a river. I think 40 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: that's the analogy made in How Protests Work, which article 41 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: which you can find on how stuff Works dot com. Uh, 42 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: thinking of it in terms of of a river. And 43 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: in the same way that yes, you can change the 44 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: course of a river, and nature can change the course 45 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: of a river, but it's gonna take something. It's gonna 46 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: take a certain amount of will, or a certain amount 47 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: of energy, a certain amount of power, because otherwise, rivers 48 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: tend to just keep going the way they're going unless 49 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: unless something comes along to change it. And that's the 50 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: way it tends to go with with something, well, whether 51 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: it is a law or a or a social norm 52 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: or some sort of an idea that has become popular 53 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: or or or has become the norm and a culture, 54 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: that the river will continue to go down the course 55 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: it's been going unless people rise up and change it, 56 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,959 Speaker 1: unless they step forward and and like, you know what, 57 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: we're not gonna have the river run this way anymore. 58 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: We're going to alter its course in a less destructive 59 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: route or in a more wholesome route, etcetera. Yeah, it's 60 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: interesting you you use that analogy, because just yesterday on 61 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: NPR one of the Occupy Wall Street protesters was making 62 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: the analogy that they are like water, um that you know, 63 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: they're a morpheus in the sense that they just can 64 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,839 Speaker 1: continue to sort of change course at will. So, yes, 65 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: they've been whisked away from Zuccati Park in New York City, 66 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that the protest has stopped the 67 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: genies out of the bottle. And so they're just going 68 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 1: to continue to to I suppose, run downstream in whatever 69 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: manner they're like water. Um. So, in this podcast, we're 70 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: going to we're going to talk about protests more along 71 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: the lines how we approach it, like why do we protest, 72 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: and and also some of the misconceptions about protesting and 73 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: protesters and protesters. Uh, we're just gonna sort of jam 74 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: here about about what the protest is and how it works. 75 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: And then at the end, we're also going to run 76 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: through some some quick ideas, some quick suggestions that we've 77 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: run across that may help any of you out there 78 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: who who are planning to be a part of a 79 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: protest in the future, or just I mean, even if 80 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: you're not planning to be a part of one, Uh, 81 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: you may find yourself in the middle of one just 82 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: by virtue of traveling around or going about your daily life. Yeah, 83 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: and how you can better gauge a crowd and uh 84 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: be safe in the crowd really, Yeah, I mean whether 85 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: it's an occupy protest or a borderline revolution and in 86 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: another country or something as simple. You remember the great 87 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: coffee machine protests here at work of Oh yeah, I'm 88 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: not going to talk about the brand name of the 89 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: coffee that was taken away, but I will say this. 90 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: Everyone complained about that brand name coffee ceaselessly until it 91 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: was taken away and another subpar brand was brought in, 92 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: and I think everything just ground to a halt because 93 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: we live and breathe off of coffee here. Yeah. Well, 94 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: I remember I was one of the early protesters in 95 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: that particular movement. But no, but I was protesting before 96 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: anybody else, I think, really noticed the change. And so 97 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: then I was like, all right, I give up the 98 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: new this is the new order with coffee. I spring 99 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: my own coffee. And then everybody got up in arms 100 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: and she changed everything. So yeah, yeah, and the Twitter 101 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: feeds were just going nuts. They were. Luckily it didn't 102 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: turn violent, um, and we were only tear gast ones. Yeah, 103 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 1: it's just not too bad. Um. I mean, you know, 104 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: in a workplace, right. Yeah, But let's talk about one 105 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: of the original protesters, or at least in American history 106 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: that we think of Henry David Threau. Oh, yes, Henry 107 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: David Threau um in nineteenth century American philosopher, and his 108 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: big thing was civil disobedience. He was against slavery, which 109 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: was legal at the time. He was against the US 110 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: war with Mexico, and so he was like, you know what, 111 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, things the way they are. If this was 112 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: a meal at a restaurant, I would refuse to pay 113 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: for it, So I'm going to refuse to pay for 114 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: it my taxes, taxes. He decided to just not gonna 115 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: pay his taxes, and and he was not injuring into 116 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: this situation thinking I'm going to stop paying my taxes. 117 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: Good luck funding that war without Henry David's dough behind it. 118 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: Now that that wasn't really his his approach, but he 119 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: was making a statement that that as individuals, we can 120 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: choose not to support the things that we disagree with, right, 121 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: We don't have to accept the status quo. Right. Yeah. 122 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: So of course they came and arrested him eventually, because 123 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: that's what happens when you don't pay your taxes, you 124 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: get put in the pokey. Yes, at least, but this 125 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: is really the birth of this idea of civil disobedience 126 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: UM is a way to combat perceived ills in the 127 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 1: world around you. Rosa Parks is another great example of 128 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: civil disobedience. UM. Of course she she is famous for 129 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: helping to uh begin the civil rights movement right with 130 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: the Alabama bus boycott. Yeah, this was ve and at 131 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: the time, Alabama state law required UM, black individuals to 132 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: set at the back of the bus and relinquish their 133 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: seat to white individuals if the vehicle was full. So 134 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,559 Speaker 1: Rosa Parks decided, you know, I'm not going to comply 135 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: with this. I'm going to set where I want to 136 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 1: set and uh and this and again this is not 137 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: a situation. She was like, I'm going to change the 138 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: world with one movement, No, with with with one decision 139 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: to you know, to to disagree. But it ended up kickstarting. 140 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: This was like the snowball down the hill. Right. Eventually 141 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: you have a three d eighty one day boycott of 142 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: the Montgomery bus system. In the following year, the US 143 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: Supreme Court banded segregation on public transportation. Right. And this 144 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: wasn't as improvised as as it sounds. Because she was 145 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: a member of the Double A C p UM. There 146 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: was UM Joanne Robinson. She was a black woman and 147 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: a professor in all black Alabama State College, and she 148 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: thought it was time to to test the law. And 149 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: so Rosa Parks had completed a workshop on civil disobedience 150 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: before she was arrested, and she knew very well what 151 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: she was doing and what they were trying to accomplish. Yeah, 152 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: as as much as much as we may want to 153 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: sometimes interpret that story is it's a lady on the 154 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: bus and she finally just had too much and sat down. Um, 155 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: it wasn't quite that, but still, Uh, well, that's what 156 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: I love about that because I think that it shows 157 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: that there was this network going on, a lot of 158 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: fun being put into this, a lot of work being 159 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: put into this. And there's a great article called How 160 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: the Civil Rights Movement Work by John Fuller that goes 161 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: into this more detail if you're interested. Um, but this 162 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: is the time obviously that's pre Facebook, Twitter, email, So 163 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: it's really amazing that people were able to really get 164 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: all of these details down and execute very well planned situations. 165 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: And I mean we're talking about the situations that were 166 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: years in the planning. Yeah. And of course, the other 167 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: big name in protests, non violent protest is Mahatma Gandhi 168 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: who in the eighteen and nineties, early eighteen Nini, who 169 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: worked as a legal advisor to an Indian law from 170 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: in South Africa. So he's he's you know, he starts 171 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: off not like the Mohamma Gandhi we come to identify 172 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: with and the iconic Gandhi that we we know. But 173 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: while there he encountered rachel intolerance. He in sain he 174 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: was reading the works of Thorow tolstoy Um, even the 175 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: writings of Jesus uh and uh well, the writings of Jesus, 176 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: the tales of us, you know, and he ends up 177 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: he ends up campaigning for the rights of Indians in 178 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: South Africa and then returns back home to India itself 179 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: and rallies of support against British colonial rule and the 180 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,599 Speaker 1: cast system. So he ends up coming up with a 181 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: strategy called Satya Graja, which is Sanskrit for truth and firmness. 182 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: And this in itself to is based in in even 183 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: older ideas that the date back to the Vedic panishards 184 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: of non violence against any living thing. Uh that that 185 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: his whole ideas, it was, you know, we're going to 186 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: protest and we're just going to we're gonna keep it 187 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 1: as non violent as possible, and uh, it kind of 188 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: it kind of bleeds over into some of the stuff 189 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: we talked about in Martyrs, the idea that if you 190 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: if you sit there and take it, eventually it shames 191 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: the person dishing it out. And that's exactly what it did, 192 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: and very similar to um, you know some of the 193 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: things that happens. Civil rights movement people were absolutely aghast 194 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: at how the government um or certain officials initially reacted 195 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: and that put the pressure on those governments to make 196 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: huge sweeping changes. Yeah, there was a nineteen nineteen the 197 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: British troops open fire and demonstrators and then there's this 198 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: enormous massacre, uh and estimated three hundred seventy nine killed, 199 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: over a thousand injured, and Gandhi ends up calling for 200 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: non compliance. Indian public officials resigned from the British government, 201 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: parents withdrew their children from British schools, and virtually anything 202 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: bearing the Royal seal was boycotted. So in India's struggle 203 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: for independence ends up paying off like through this this 204 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: measure and things things that could not have been one 205 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: necessarily with violence or or violence have been used, you 206 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: would have seen an entirely different unfolding of events and 207 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: unfolding of the modern India. Yeah, the Satia Graja, I 208 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: think was obviously key to this, right because it just said, 209 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: you have to roomain passive, even if you're being kicked, 210 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: even if you're being beaten. We must refuse to act. 211 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: And of course this is this is the the the 212 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: upper hand that Gandhi and the protesters had eventually using 213 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: this tactic. But of course, sometimes protests do turn violent, 214 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: and I mean you can pretty much search for the 215 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: phrase protest turns violent on Google News any day and 216 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: you'll find a pretty recent example. I mean, it happens. 217 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: You get people in a in an area, everyone's kind 218 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: of riled up, their tensions mounting. There's generally some sort 219 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: of security police or military force keeping an eye on things. Uh, 220 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of a powder keg And I mean that's 221 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: one of the things that Gandhi realized in his whole thing, 222 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: was don't don't give them cause to set the powder 223 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: keg off. And if they start setting the powder keg off, 224 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: don't throw more powder on the fire. Right, And it 225 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: doesn't it's not even just a protest, It could be 226 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of individuals congregating. Um. And I'm thinking about 227 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: Laura Logan. She was the chief foreign news correspondent for CBS. Uh. 228 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: You know during the Egyptian Revolution in Tahier Square, she 229 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: was brutally desaulted, assaulted, sexual assaulted. And again, this is 230 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: a crowd that was initially coming together to celebrate and 231 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: turned very violent. Um. So we'll talk a little bit 232 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 1: more about that and how how and if you can 233 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: actually read a crowd and try to avoid that. So 234 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: what do we protest, Why do we do it? What's 235 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: at the heart of it? Well, you can't really talk 236 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: about about protests about talking about group think a little 237 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: bit and the whole the idea of like the wisdom 238 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: of the crowds or well, there's sort of two sides 239 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: to the coin. On one hand, there's the idea of 240 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,599 Speaker 1: the wisdom of the crowd. You get you get a 241 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: you go out in the street, you ask what the 242 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: opinion is, and then the street is going to be right. Well, 243 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: this is that idea of emergence. Right, And we've discussed 244 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: this a little in the past, that if left to 245 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: its own devices and within certain constraints, the crowd will 246 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: do a better job at figuring things out than a 247 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: single person. A really cool example of this this came 248 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: up in an article I was writing for for How 249 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: Stuff Works about the game Pandemic. This is a game 250 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: where people collaborate to try and stop an outbreak on 251 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: a game board that looks like a map. And I 252 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: was reading some interviews with the Dinner and he and 253 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: this is the guy who created the guy who sat 254 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: down and wrote out this game, planned it out. And 255 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: he pointed out that when he if he plays the 256 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: game by himself, like controlling all say four players, And again, 257 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: this is a game where part of it is people 258 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: have to get along and collaborate and potentially fight with 259 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: each other about what are the best moves to initiate. 260 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: There's no leader per se, not an officially prescribed leader, 261 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: so they have to kind of figure it out and 262 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: decide what their group tactic is going to be, or 263 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: or they're or if they're just going to fight about things. 264 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: But even even with this situation in place, he pointed 265 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: out that when he was playing a game controlling all 266 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: four players, he generally did not do as good as 267 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: four individual players because you're gonna have Each of these 268 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: individuals is gonna bring like new uh us new data, 269 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: and if if they can work those out, they're going 270 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: to actually do better than the guy who created the game. 271 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: Well see, and that's that's one of the things that 272 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: uh I guess you could say one of the errors 273 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: that people make when they talk about protests sometimes and 274 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: then video they say that the crowd is irrational or 275 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: full of irrational people. And what you're saying is is 276 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: that there's you know, pointing to this sort of crowd 277 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: intelligence that is happening, and that people aren't actually nuts, 278 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: they're not being crazy. A lot of people who are 279 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: involved in this crowd are actually pretty pragmatic people. Right. Well, 280 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: I think everyone has a rightful fear of mobs, I mean, 281 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: and I think that's what plays into this. So so 282 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: there's the idea that we know that a mob is 283 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: a fearful thing when a when a crowd of people 284 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: are out of control and and there's porks with pitchforks 285 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: or fire or you know or whatever Frankenstein, right and 286 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: Frankenstein in the movie and uh but but no, like 287 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: a riot situation is not a good environment, and it 288 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: is one that is rightfully feared by by many. So 289 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: it's easy to extrapolate that and say, I mean it 290 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: ties back into the basic evolution. You know, are you 291 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: going to make a type one air or type two air? Right? 292 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: And so you look at a large group of people 293 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: and you're like, I don't like to look at this. 294 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: This is gonna they're out of control. Just look at 295 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: the beard on that one guy, you know, like these 296 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: dirty bumps. Speaking of this is this is another common 297 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: claim that people make that the crowd is poor, right right, yeah, 298 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: the it's going to be the masses teaming out there 299 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: to tear down the golden palaces of the of the rulers, 300 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: right yeah. And this is from an article from Psychology 301 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: Today that's actually talking about the reasons why we protests, 302 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: and it says people join mass protests to achieve personal 303 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: goals that they are otherwise unable to realize, for example, 304 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: getting jobs, affordable housing, or getting rid of their debts. 305 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: But what counts in terms of people's motivations to protest 306 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: is not so much their absolute poverty level, but their 307 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: relative poverty that is compared to their peers. Sociologists have 308 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: called this a relative deprivation and it is important predictor 309 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: of social unrest. So the point is there is that 310 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: you might have someone who's protesting at say occupied Wall Street, 311 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: who's doing fine. Actually they can put some you know, 312 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: fine being meaning they can eat, they have clothes, they 313 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: have a place to live. So the point of it, though, 314 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: is that the person that occupy Wall Street is saying, Okay, yes, 315 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: I know that I'm doing better than this other person, 316 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: this this other country. But the fact of the matter 317 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: is I live here in this city with these people, 318 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: and I should have the same access to opportunities and 319 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: resources that this person next to me does, that my 320 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: politician does, um, that the blue collar worker does, the 321 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: white collar worker does. And it's it's really important that 322 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: while we tend to think of the US is a 323 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: rich country, the fact of the matter is that the 324 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: income gap between the rich and poor is much greater 325 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: than anywhere else in the Western world. Um. So statistical 326 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: data bears out that the more unequal society is, the 327 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: more stressed and unhappy people are, and the more chance 328 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: again we have of social unrest. Now, two other ideas 329 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: that are I think are pretty closely related that are 330 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: brought up in the Psychology Today article one crowd members 331 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: are all alike, and that the crowd has no face. 332 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: Now the crowd members are all alike. This one is 333 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: is one that I think tends to it. It tends 334 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: to get be wound up in media coverage, like, for instance, 335 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: in in noticing various media outlets covering Occupy Wall Street. Granted, 336 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: you only have so many photos to choose from, I'm sure, 337 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure a p getty all these places 338 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: rolling out a lot of photos, but you tend to 339 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: see people gravitating towards particular images, and like, there's just 340 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: one of this dude that kind of looks like Andy 341 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,959 Speaker 1: and Parks and wreck Um with kind of like one 342 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,479 Speaker 1: of these beards I think, I know, yeah, yeah he 343 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: and he has like one of these beards, except his 344 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: his mustaches shave, so it's kind of looks like giant 345 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: wolverine ciders and he's like kind of yelling, and so 346 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,479 Speaker 1: you see that picture enough and you're kind of like, 347 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: that's the Occupy Wall Street movement. It's kind of burly 348 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: dudes with the crazy sideburns, yelling that haven't maybe they 349 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: haven't had a bath recently. Well, this is another thing 350 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: that that comes up to This came up in the 351 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: London riots as well, like how could so many people 352 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: from so many different backgrounds, since you know, of all 353 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: stripes of life, how could they all be together doing this? 354 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: This is impossible, you know because not right next to 355 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: Andy from parts of reck, you also have a guy 356 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: in a business suit. Um. So it's funny because we've 357 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: talked about this before. We like pattern recognition and we 358 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: like to keep it simple and easy. But the fact 359 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: of the matter is is that all these people are 360 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: coming together for a common cause. Um, it's not weird 361 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: that there are people from all different walks of life 362 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: getting together and protesting right now. But the idea that 363 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: the crowd has no face, that's another thing that came up. 364 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: You know, this is frequently cited, well, the like the 365 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: occupied movement has no leader, you know, so they can't 366 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: just shut down this leader or arrest this leader because 367 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: the movement is greater. That's true to sort of varying 368 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 1: degrees with with movements, because even in something like Occupy 369 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: Wall Street, during these occupied movements, you're going to have 370 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: people that are more connected. You're gonna have I mean, 371 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: just on a basic level, think of your own friend group. Um, 372 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: there are people that are better organizers than others. I 373 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,239 Speaker 1: mean just like within you know, my own marriage, my 374 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: wife is much better organizer than me. So well, just 375 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: even in the personality tests that we all took here 376 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: and how stuff works, and some of us were put 377 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: in a group and made play with legos, which was 378 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: perfectly fine. Us and another group were made to play 379 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: with legos unbeknownst to us, and then a third group 380 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,959 Speaker 1: had to clean all the floors. That was really weird. 381 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: They like doing that. That's what their personality test said. Um, 382 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: but you saw one group I'm gonna says, we were 383 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: all grouped in like UM dispositions. So in my group 384 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: where the creative crazies, and so we made some sort 385 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: of toy that made no sense and was inoperable. The 386 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: other group made this was amazing to watch. The other 387 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: group made this completely streamlined, UM, some sort of vehicle 388 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: like with little people, and it was of course it 389 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: was in running condition. So yes, you do have people 390 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 1: who are you know, automatically going to start organizing and 391 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 1: helping UM in a protest group situation. And then this 392 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: is another one that I found. It the idea that 393 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: protests correlate to weather, and this one turns out to 394 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: be true, or at least there's some there's some strong 395 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: evidence to support the idea. Yeah, there's a Columbia University 396 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 1: study and they used data from nineteen fifties two thousand four, 397 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 1: and the researchers concluded that the likelihood of new conflicts 398 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: arising in affected countries, mostly mostly located in the tropics 399 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: double during alminio years is compared with wetter, cooler years. Right, 400 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: so the hot, dry weather was driving people nuts, raising 401 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: their hackles. The the the theory goes right, and uh, 402 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: this they say, we believe this finding represents the first 403 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: major evidence that global climate is a major factor in 404 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: organized violence around the world. This was said by Solomon 405 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 1: his Young, the leader, the lead author of the study, 406 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: who conducted all the research at Columba University. And then 407 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: another thing too, the Psychology Today article. I can't remember 408 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: if it actually went into this, but you know, the 409 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: recent upheavals in the Middle East and North Africa really 410 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 1: can be traced to the region's youth, because we're talking 411 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: about millions of young people facing widespread unemployment and seeing 412 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: an earth of opportunities ahead of them. So you know, 413 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: again we're seeing a lot of these sort of themes 414 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: coming up, opportunities lack of them. You know, you look 415 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: at Occupy Wall Street and you know, some people have 416 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: sort of made light of that because there's some there's 417 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: some yoga going on, there's some hacky sack playing. Um. Again, 418 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: some of the people that are in that group, Um, 419 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: you might point to and say, but you've got it, 420 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: You've got it. Fine, Well I think we should we 421 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 1: should see more yoga practice. Actually we should. It's a 422 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: really good idea on both sides. Yeah. Um, but again, 423 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: there is this this sense that that there is injustice 424 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: going on that needs to be right it. All right, Well, 425 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, 426 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: we're going to discuss crowd psychology a little more and 427 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: get into what you can do to protect yourself when 428 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: you encounter a protests with This podcast is brought to 429 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: you by Intel, the sponsors of Tomorrow and the Discovery Channel. 430 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: At Intel, we believe curiosity is the spark which drives innovation. 431 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: Join us at curiosity dot com and explore the answers 432 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: to life's questions. All right, we're back crowd psychology the 433 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: group think in action. UM. We mentioned a little earlier 434 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: the idea that four people playing a game are going 435 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: to do better than one person playing a game. That 436 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: if you that the street is wiser than the individual, 437 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: and that and that if you were to pull a 438 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: number of individuals in a group about a particular topic, UM, 439 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: on average, they would get it right. This is the 440 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: classic like, I guess how many jelly beans are are 441 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: in that bottle? Right? But if you want to kill 442 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: this jelly being phenomenon, the one thing that will do 443 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: it really well, aside from I guess like putting a 444 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: hall of cylinder in the middle of the jelly beans 445 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: or something, would be uh to aggregate the information when 446 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: the When the information is aggregated amongst the people being pulled, 447 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: drastic fall off and crowd wisdoms. So is that when 448 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: people become informed of others decisions? Yeah, or I think, um, 449 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: it's it's like, for instance, when you can if you 450 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: all everybody and you ask him a question such as, um, 451 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 1: do you think the President of the United States as 452 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: a US citizen? And then but but then if you 453 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: expose them to poll data shows that a large number 454 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: of people are in question about it or or say 455 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: global warming is another one where if you're exposed people 456 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: to enough polls and enough data that represents the idea 457 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 1: that hey, lots of people think this is uh, this 458 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: is bunk, then people's uh wisdom on the data on 459 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 1: the matter will be affected. Well see. And I think 460 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,719 Speaker 1: that's really important when you're talking about crowd psychology, right, 461 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: because yes, there there's a self organizing aspect to it, um. 462 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,679 Speaker 1: But when you are sharing data and you know you 463 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: do hear everybody else's opinions, I mean, that's when you 464 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: can start to go a bit awry and logic. So, yes, 465 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 1: they're they're the crowd. The most part is rational, but 466 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: we've seen it turned irrationally, especially if it if it 467 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: is being controlled and people are being told what to 468 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: what to think. I mean, one thing to keep in 469 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 1: mind with protests. As much as we we like to 470 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: discuss the really good examples of protests, UM, one of 471 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 1: the most successful protests in the twentieth century was, in 472 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: some respects the Nazi Party. I remember the rise of 473 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: the Nazi Party in Germany. H A lot of that 474 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: began as protests, and then the protests were successful enough 475 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: that they ended up becoming the government. So yeah, that's 476 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: interesting to think of it that way and how that 477 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: that error in logic rose to to really just yeah, 478 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: and for every great example of civil rights protests out there, 479 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: you can find another equally disturbing um say, klan klu 480 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: klux klan group thing going on as well. So that's 481 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: just something to keep in mind about the free market 482 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: of ideas and the use of protests to try and 483 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: turn the tide of public sentiment. This is interesting too. 484 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: This is from psychologist Clifford Stock at the University of 485 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: Liverpool in England. He has a theory of crowd behavior 486 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,719 Speaker 1: called the elaborated social identity model. This holds that individuals 487 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: and crowd do keep thinking for themselves, um on top 488 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: but their individual identities, though they also develop a makeshift 489 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: social identity which includes everyone else in the group. When 490 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: the group faces oppositions such as police indiscriminately bashing it's 491 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 1: the members of the group with batons. The social identity 492 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: congeals members of the group began to work together to 493 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: fight with it sees as common oppressors. So that's that 494 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: maybe some sort of insight, uh, particularly into the Nazi 495 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: example that you're talking about that if someone, if the 496 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: group feels on some level that there in danger, then 497 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, your your individualism will seed to 498 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: group think. Yeah, which explains a lot of why a 499 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: protest can be successful and also why it can potentially 500 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: collapse into violence. Okay, let's say it all goes to poo. 501 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,479 Speaker 1: What do we do? Well? Um, it depends exactly how 502 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: it goes to poo. Actually, UM, I'll tell you one 503 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: thing to keep in mind. We reference this earlier when 504 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: we brought up the idea of our bosses tear gassing 505 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: us tear gas. I just wrote an article about this 506 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: for Housta Works, How tear gas Works, which should be 507 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: on the site by the time this episode airs. And uh, 508 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: there are a number of things to do if you 509 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: get tear gas. First of all, tear gas is it's 510 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: commonly used as actually cs gas, and it is generally 511 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: not lethal. It is less lethal if you want to 512 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: get technical, though. It is also technically a chemical weapon, 513 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: and it's used just around the world no matter what 514 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: country you're talking about, because it is an effective riot 515 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: control agent. And the reason is because if you were 516 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: hit with tear gas, you pretty much are only concerned 517 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: with the horrendous burning in your eyes, in your mouth, 518 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: possibly in your lungs, and on your skin. It really 519 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 1: tends to simplify a situation what starts off as you know, 520 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: I believe that people of my generation don't have a 521 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: proper say and government blah blah blah. It ends up 522 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: devolving into, oh, my goodness, I need to get some 523 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,719 Speaker 1: water on my face now. And so people tend to scatter, 524 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: and certainly, if you were tear gas, scattering is a 525 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: good idea provided you can see where you're going and 526 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: there's not a danger in running, because you want to 527 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: get away from the source of the tear gas. And 528 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: then you're gonna want to if you have if you 529 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: have contacts in you're gonna want to get those out, 530 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: preferably with hands that have not been and so clean 531 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: hands beings like you know, if you can find somebody 532 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: who can jab them out of your eyes for you, 533 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: or or preferably medical relief. A lot of protests, you're 534 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: gonna have some people on hand to provide medical support 535 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: afterwards for individuals who have who have been pure gas. 536 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: So ideally, like you would have safety goggles on, you 537 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: would have some sort of surgical gloves on, you might 538 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: look odd. But you also see individuals attending protest with 539 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: gas mass with be they you know, commercially available gas 540 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: mask or improvised gas masks. I'm not saying do that, 541 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: but some people. If you don't have it, you know, 542 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: try a scarf. That's not as effective. But obviously there 543 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: are things that you can do to prepare if you 544 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: if you think that you will be in the middle 545 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: of a protest. Yeah, the big thing with tear gas 546 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: is you want to get away from it. You want 547 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: to get it off of you, and then you'll probably 548 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: be okay. Prolonged exposure that's where things get dangerous. And 549 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: this is kind of a observation, but it probably bears 550 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: mentioning that if you don't want to get hit with 551 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: tear gas, if you don't want uh the police to 552 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: uh maybe aggravate you a bit, do not be in 553 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: the front lines. Try to be on the periphery of 554 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: the crowd. Um. Of course, that would make a really 555 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: crappy protest if everybody did that, but if this is 556 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,239 Speaker 1: what you're trying to avoid, then it makes sense that 557 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: you would back off a little bit. Yeah. Oh and 558 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: then the other thing too, if you get it on 559 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,719 Speaker 1: your clothing, you're gonna take that. Take those clothing items 560 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: off as soon as possible. You're gonna want to shower. 561 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: And if you have it on your your shirt, you 562 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: might want to consider cutting the shirt off if it 563 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: has to be removed over your head, because otherwise you're 564 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: going to be dragging a tear gas coat shirt across 565 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: your face. So just another small thing to worry about there. 566 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: But then also it's worth knowing that some individuals are 567 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: are going to be hyper sensitive to tear gas, and 568 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,239 Speaker 1: that's certainly a situation to be aware of. But then 569 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: also some people have a surprising immunity to to your gas. Right, 570 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: so there's no way to know unless you have been gassed, really, 571 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: but you know, well, I mean you can know if 572 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: you have a heightened the immunity. You mean, you may 573 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: have like a compromised immune system. If you were a child, 574 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: if you weren't an elderly individual, then that's a pretty 575 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: good sign that to your gas is going to have 576 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: a rougher effect on you. Yeah, let's talk about policing too, 577 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: because obviously the police are there, they're not trying to 578 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: be the bad guys. Sometimes things happen and they inadvertently 579 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: end up being the bad guys. They didn't set out 580 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: to be the bad guys. That's a very difficult position 581 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: for someone to be in, stressful, it's potentially dangerous for 582 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: them and for you. So, you know, how do you 583 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: behave if if you are confronted by a police officer, Well, 584 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: a lot of it. I mean it lines up basically 585 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: what Gandhi was saying, right, I mean, if if some 586 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: if some dude is is clubbing people in front of you, 587 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: or I mean not even clubbing, if they're just say, right, 588 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: you know, resting everybody inside. If you were passive, if 589 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: you are visibly not a threat, then you're you're going 590 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: to be better off. You're less likely to to probably 591 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: be beat with a a baton or um, to be 592 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: put in a position of aggression by a police officer. 593 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: That of course, we have seen examples before where that's 594 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: not necessarily true. But if this is something that you're 595 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: doing again, you've got to keep that in mind. Um, 596 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: And what do you do if a police officer or 597 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: someone else in the crowd becomes very aggressive with you? 598 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: I mean, there are actually a couple of things that 599 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: you can think about doing. It takes foresight and it 600 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: takes all a lot of concentration, but you can help 601 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: to diffuse a situation. Well, um, one of the this 602 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: comes from the book How to Want to Fight that 603 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,959 Speaker 1: we're looking at and then certainly we're not we're certainly 604 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: not advocating getting in a fight with anybody. You're not 605 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: advocating this this book, per se. We're just there's some 606 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: information in it that was helpful. Yeah, And one of 607 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: one of these was that if you were in a 608 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: situation where where someone is acting aggressively towards you, and 609 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: in a protest environment, this could be even one of 610 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: your fellow protesters, that things get out of hand. Um, 611 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: they say, if you were to say something confusing or 612 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: perplexing that that is, that is out of character with 613 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: the situation, that can help if only providing like one 614 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: brief moment to slip away or to or to distill 615 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: the aggression of the other. End. Right, So if someone 616 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: were about it seemed like someone was about to attack you, 617 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: then you could calmly say to them something like do 618 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: you know what time it is? Which sounds ridiculous, but 619 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: really what's happening is that it's creating this this mental 620 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: sort of flicker in their brains, and it's cognitive dissonance, right, 621 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: because they're like what, who cares what? Because they would 622 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: expect someone to say, like occupy this or back off pig, right. 623 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: I mean that's the kind of that's kind of the 624 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: kind of stuff that that someone in an aggressive mindset 625 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: in that situation might expect them to say. And if 626 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: you don't play along with that, with that transcript, right, 627 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: with a social role that you're playing right right, then 628 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: that that can potentially help diffuse the situation. Yeah. And 629 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: another effective thing to do is to calmly, again, calmly 630 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: say something along the lines of, you know, there are 631 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,959 Speaker 1: a lot of surveillance cameras around here, or there are 632 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people with video surveillance UM or you know, 633 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: cell phone video, so that you can get that person 634 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: to back out of their heads a little bit and 635 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: and sort of see the big picture of the situation 636 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: and maybe even think, okay, this is you know, someone's 637 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: about to record, um, some sort of transgression on my part. Yeah. 638 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: And if you manage to make it away from a 639 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: protest that has fallen apart into some sort of violent situation, 640 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: take it an indirect route home, don't don't go the 641 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: direct route necessarily. Yeah, I read that, and I wondered 642 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: about that. Um, is this I wondered if this was 643 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: a sort of extension of police going after people. Um, 644 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: although I'm assuming that if you're on your way home, 645 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: you're probably out of nabbing distance, I think that. Yeah, 646 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: I think this one just basically it's kind of like 647 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: you're being herded into arrest kind of a situation. It's about, 648 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, arrest avoidance. And that's the other thing. If 649 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: someone is trying to arrest you at a protest, you 650 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: should probably just comply and be arrested. Really, I mean, 651 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: I mean, certainly we're not to advocate that anyone try 652 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: to avoid arrest lawful arrest, but I mean, if it's 653 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: a situation between being chased down or hit with the 654 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: rupper bullet versus giving yourself up to the authorities that 655 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: are cracking down in the protests, you know, and if 656 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: you're about to get caught to this is sort of interesting. Again, 657 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: it's from from the book, but they were basically saying 658 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: that it sounds querintuitive, but if you're about to get struck, 659 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: you should try to relax your muscles. Yeah. The reason 660 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,959 Speaker 1: is because your reaction time is going to be a 661 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: lot slower if you lock up all your muscles in 662 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: anticipation of a blow. So if you're going to try 663 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: to avoid it, then that's what you'd want to do. 664 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it's very kind of kung fu, right, because 665 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 1: you know it looks like a batter on the mound, right. 666 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: If the batter is stressed out, they're not going to 667 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: have as they may be as powerful as all get out, 668 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: but they're not gonna have as much control over this swing. Yeah. 669 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: And and this is this is kind of funny. From 670 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,719 Speaker 1: the book, they said when a drillin hits your system, 671 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: you become tougher and more resilient. But the downside is 672 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: that you become a one task, knuckle dragging troglodyte. So 673 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: the more stressed you are, the more your body shuts down. 674 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: And we're talking from fine motor skills like finger dexterity 675 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: and I hand coordination to the loss of depth perception 676 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: and then of course irrational thinking. So there's just some 677 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: ideas about how you might respond to a protest environment. Yeah, 678 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: and and this again, this is sort of timely. This 679 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: piece of information to um in the final hours of 680 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: protest um. But you know, when the permits are about 681 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: to expire, this is usually when the police make most 682 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,760 Speaker 1: of their arrests because now they can kind of charge 683 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: in and do that. So so go early and leave 684 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: while they're wanting you to stay right exactly like basically, 685 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: like with any party, leave on a high note. So 686 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: let's leave on a high note on this one then, UM. 687 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: And though certainly we invite any ideas and opinions related 688 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: to this topic, because because this is more than than 689 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: than a lot of them, there's some aspects of it 690 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: that are that are open to interpretation in terms of 691 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: like what, for instance, what the best response is. I 692 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: mean these right, Yeah, I would love to hear from 693 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 1: people who have perhaps been in many protests before, what 694 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: have your experiences been like? And then what has it 695 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: been like when people like try to keep it cool 696 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 1: and try to you know, try to engage in non 697 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: violence and uh and and passive responses to all of 698 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: this be honesty to hear a new tails. I'd love 699 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: to leave off with a quote from Martin Luther King 700 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: about his take on the psychology of the disenfranchised. There 701 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 1: is nothing more dangerous than to build a society with 702 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: a large segment of people in that society who feel 703 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: that they have no stake in it, who feel that 704 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: they have nothing to lose. People who have a stake 705 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: in their society protect that society, but when they don't 706 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: have it, they unconsciously want to destroy it. That's a 707 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: pretty stage. Words from Martin Luther King. Well, hey, I'm 708 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,280 Speaker 1: gonna reach into the listener mail folder if the robot 709 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: will hand it to me. Thank you, robot. So this 710 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: one here is from Hannah Hannah wrightesin and says, Dear 711 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: Robert and Julie, I recently listened to your podcast on 712 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: sports and was intrigued by a passing bit event from Nation. 713 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 1: When you were talking about the brain simulating throwing a 714 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,240 Speaker 1: baseball when watching baseball being baseball being thrown, Robert mentioned 715 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 1: the brain doing the same while reading. As the family's 716 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: resident bookworm, it has been pointed out to me that 717 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: while reading, I make a lot of facial expressions. My 718 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: parents and sister tease me for this, but I have 719 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: found that these expressions are not of my reaction to 720 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: the book, but reflect the emotions of the characters. For example, 721 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: of a character's browse for a mine will be as well. 722 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: I always attributed this to general quirkiness, but it was 723 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: fascinating to hear that, hear what might be going on 724 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: in my head. I love the podcast You guys make 725 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: College Apps season a lot less stressful, Oh college application, Susan. Yeah, 726 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: as opposed to like something on your phone? Yeah yeah, 727 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: um yeah, that's that's interesting. I mean her her mirror 728 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: neurons were definitely at work there. And I was just 729 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: thinking too about the Imaginary Friends podcast that we did 730 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: and which we talked about the authors sometimes engaging with 731 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: the characters are creating as imaginary friends, in fact thinking 732 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: of them as imaginary friend and so a lot of 733 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: that plays into it, the empathy part um. I have 734 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: one quick email from a listener named Savar, and Savar said, 735 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: I just heard your last podcast and heard Julie say 736 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: that adrenaline fledgs your body. I'm a biology student. I 737 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: just recently found out that the amount of adrenaline needed 738 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: to trigger the fight or flight response is actually minuscule. 739 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: Adrenaline has roughly the same concentration in your body as 740 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: an aspirin tablet dissolved an Olympic sized swimming pool. Okay, 741 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: so that was kind of that's pretty fascinating, right, like 742 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: that that that amount could make you feel as that 743 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: you were having adrenaline rush, like you as if you 744 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 1: were being flooded with adrenaline that you're not, so thank you, savar. Alright, Well, 745 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,839 Speaker 1: if you guys have any tidbits to share with us, uh, 746 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: you know, especially about protests, your own experiences with them, 747 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,839 Speaker 1: your own thoughts about them, uh, and about I mean 748 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: just the the idea of protests is this social thing. 749 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: I mean, that's what fascinates me the most, um and 750 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: certainly just what engaged me the most, and writing that 751 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: article about protests. Share them with We are on Facebook 752 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: and Twitter, We're blow the Mind on both of those 753 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: and you can always share your thoughts by sending us 754 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: an email at blow the Mind at how stuff works 755 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: dot com. Be sure to check out our new video podcast, 756 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,839 Speaker 1: Stuff from the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as 757 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.