WEBVTT - #257 Jason Flom with Rickey Jackson 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:05.800 On May nineteenth, nineteen seventy five, two men approached fifty 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:08.480 nine year old Harold Franks outside of a Cleveland, Ohio 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.479 grocery store, demanding his briefcase. Franks resisted, and the men 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:15.000 clubbed him with a pipe and splashed acid in his 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.320 face before shooting him twice in the chest. The shooter 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.520 fired into the grocery store as well, hitting co owner 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:26.320 Ann Robinson, who survived. Mister Franks, however, did not. An 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.280 eyewitness wrote down the plate number as the assailants sped 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:32.479 off in a green convertible. Despite the plate number and 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:35.960 other compelling leads, police instead focused on the word of 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.760 twelve year old Eddie Vernon, who had been bragging about 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.000 witnessing the crime from a bus, repeating an alleged rumer 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.400 naming Ricky Jackson as well as Wiley and Ronnie Bridgman 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.600 as the assailants. Vernon's classmates and the bus driver denied 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:53.160 even having the vantage point to see the crime during 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:56.279 interviews and then the lineup. When Eddie Vernon tried to 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:59.600 back away from the lie, investigators threatened to lock up 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.480 his parents if he didn't stick to the story. By 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:07.039 ignoring more compelling suspects and instead coercing a child. The 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.640 states at Ricky Jackson as well as Wiley and Ronnie 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.840 Bridgman to death rout. When the nineteen seventy four reinstatement 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:16.960 of the death penalty in Ohio was struck dout as 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:21.400 unconstitutional in nineteen seventy eight, those condemned between those years 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:25.440 had their senses commuted to life, including Ronnie, Wiley and Ricky, 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.800 assuring the possibility of their innocence one day being recognized. 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:47.319 This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. Today's 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:53.040 story is important in so many ways. The man who 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:58.080 lived through this well four decades of imprisonment on the 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.080 basis of an eyewitness who wasn't there, who was twelve 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:05.360 years old at the time, who was coerced, pressured, croutbeaten 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:10.079 by authorities, the same authorities who overlooked or ignored evidence 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:13.399 pointing to the actual two assailants and what was a brutal, 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:18.320 brutal crime. And I'm very, very honored to have the 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.720 man himself, Ricky Jackson. Ricky, thank you for being here today. 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.280 Thank you for having me Jason, I appreciate it. Thank you. 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:27.480 So let's set the stage here. When I tell you 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:29.520 the name of the place where this occurred, people are 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.239 probably going to be given some knowing nods in their 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.680 car or their home wherever they're listening, because it feels 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:38.919 like every other episode we do is a wrong for 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:40.880 conviction based in Cuyahoga County. 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.720 Well, when you look at the number of Alexanderies through 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:48.720 Kyahoga County, it justifies the statement you just made. At 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.400 least in those times, the police pretty much owned the 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:56.239 prosecutor's office, the coroner's office, whatever they sent up the pipeline. 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:58.000 Nobody went against the police. 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:03.440 No, that's right. Your story, as you were telling me earlier, 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:07.040 is important because if it could happen to you, it 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.080 can happen to anyone. And when I say that you 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:14.200 lived a relatively normal, peaceful life growing up, you were 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.000 only eighteen when this happened. You were still really a child, 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:19.440 let's face it, but you know, turning into a man. 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.440 I mean back in the mid seventies, you know, life 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.120 was not as hectic as it is today, and I 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:28.240 was doing the typical eighteen year old stuff. One of 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.640 my friends, or Wilie Bridgeman, he had joined the National Guard. 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.280 He came home one day on lead we saw that 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:38.440 uniform and we were so all and impressed and amazed 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:40.080 by that. 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.560 That we immediately set our sights so on joining the military, 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:43.920 you know, and. 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:47.680 You joined the Marines, right, and then we're honorably discharged 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:49.000 for medical reasons. 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.480 Yes, I was doing a detail and the driver pulled 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:53.440 off before. 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:55.000 I had a good burm hold. 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:56.960 On the back of a dump truck and I fell off, 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:59.040 and my back hasn't been the same. I thought I 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:00.800 was going to be able to get out, we had 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.760 my back and re enlist. But in the process of 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:07.640 doing that, Eddie burning happened. 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.480 Yes, Eddie Vernon happened. That's a help of a way 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.680 of putting it very direct. It all comes down to 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:17.600 this kid, and I'm talking about he was a kid, 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:19.680 he was twelve years old. I feel that he's a 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:21.479 victim in this as well. I don't know if you 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:22.279 share that belief. 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:24.920 I do. I do. I strongly share that. I mean, 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:26.359 he was a twelve year old kid. 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.800 Yeah, and at twelve years old, we know how easily 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.080 influenced you can be and how easily scared you can 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.640 be at that age. And then a lie just grows into. 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:38.200 Something you can't control. 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:42.039 Yeah, it grows horns and it gets worse and worse. 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.520 So Eddie Vernon, was he just a kid from the neighborhood. 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:46.800 Did you guys know him? 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:49.719 He used to be our paperboy at one time. 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:51.800 I remember when I used to come home from school 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:53.880 to have lunch in the winter time. 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:55.760 He will be sitting at our kitchen table. 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.640 My mother would like give him soup and a grilled 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.080 cheese sandwich or something like that because it was so 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.960 cold outside before he continued on with his route. I 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.599 mean because of our age difference. I never, you know, 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.920 hung out with him and anything, but I knew his family. 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:15.159 The crime itself, this is a crime that happened on 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:19.200 May nineteenth to nineteen seventy five when fifty nine year 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.320 old Harold Franks, who was a money order salesman, where 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.400 he was leaving a grocery store on Fairhill Road in Cleveland, Ohio, 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:29.560 when two men approached him. The men confronted mister Franks 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.800 and demanded his briefcase. And this is where it gets 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.520 really crazy. When Franks resisted, they clubbed him in the 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.279 head with a pipe and splashed acid in his face. 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.200 What kind of sick people are these And one of 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:45.520 the men then shot him twice in the chest and 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:49.120 fired a shot through the store's glass front door, hitting 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.320 fifty eight year old Ann Robinson, who was the co 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.479 owner of the store. She was shot at the neck, 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:59.640 but somehow miraculously survived. Mister Franks tragically did not. The 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.760 two robbers fled with the briefcase. Remember I said, two 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:06.360 robbers containing four hundred and twenty five dollars and some 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:08.880 blank money orders, and they escaped in a green car 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:10.719 that was parked down the street. Did you have a 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:11.600 green car, by. 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:15.239 The way, No, never, I didn't even own a car. 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.840 Okay, man So and by the way, the three guys 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.680 convicted for a crime the two guys committed. That's just 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:26.440 one little fraction of the problems with this case. Right 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:28.240 find out as we go along. 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.839 May nineteenth, the crime had just happened not two hundred 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.120 feet from where we lived, the three of us, and so, 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:38.160 you know, we saw people gradually going towards the Fair 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:42.200 Hill area, and so we asked, like, what's going on, 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:44.200 you know, and they like, somebody just. 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:45.520 Got killed up at the store. 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:48.240 We didn't have nothing to do at the particular time, 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:50.960 so we decided to go up there and be lucky 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.800 lose as well. We got up there and by the 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.400 time we reached the location, the police were up there. 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.440 There were TV cameras out there. The police had the 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.800 area Hordendolph and there was a body with the sheet 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:07.919 laying askew. And I saw Eddie Vernon at the scene 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.320 at a crime and he was looking around like everybody 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:15.200 else was. And so we stayed up there for approsequently 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.200 fifteen to twenty five minutes and we left. 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:24.720 The investigation involved detectives Eugene Terpe and James Farmer, as 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.800 well as numerous others. They had the license plate number 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.880 of the green escape car. This case came with instructions 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.520 that escape car belonged to a guy named Ishmael Hickson. 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.280 And they were also pointed this is I mean when 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.880 I read this, my head about exploded. Okay, so get 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.800 this everyone. They were also pointed in the direction of 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:50.720 Paul Gardenshire, whose own mother contacted the store owner and 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.480 the police to report that her son had a gun 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:57.600 and that she believed that he was involved in the shooting. 0:07:58.120 --> 0:07:59.760 Oh my god. 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.600 The same caliber gun, mind you, of the gun that 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:04.600 was used to kill mister Franks. 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.640 The guy's freaking mother came forward, and then another informant 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:13.440 also implicated Gardenshire, who said that he stole his grandfather's 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.240 thirty eight caliber gun, which was the murder weapon, and 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.360 was driving around in a convertible that was yes, you 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:23.040 guessed it green in color, and that was the escape car. 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.440 These details were not public knowledge at the time, right, 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:31.440 so this is inside information, and Officer Terpe found the 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:35.040 green convertible exactly where the informant said it would be. 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:36.400 I'm getting the chills now. 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:38.840 There were a lot of viable suspects. 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.400 The FBI even got in contact with the Cleveland Police 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.160 Department and told them that you need to be looking at. 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:46.040 These guys right here. 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.959 They have anmo of throwing liquids in people's faces when 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:53.440 they robbed them, you know, And you know, the police 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.120 for a time went down this road. But when you 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.880 got a twelve year old boy saying that he was 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.400 an actual eyewitness, you know, and they're not going to 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:07.480 spend on that time chasing these leads of what might 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.960 have been when we got an actual witness. 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.280 And of course you're referring to Eddie Vernon, who had 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.320 he actually seen anything and had you and the Bridgeman's 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.280 actually been the culprits, he could have pointed you out 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.280 to the police when you were all at the scene 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.800 right after the crime had occurred. But the fact is 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.880 he hadn't seen anything, As he admitted so many long 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.600 years later, he was actually on the bus with a 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:32.600 bunch of his classmates at the time of the crime. 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.760 They all heard the gunshots, but none of them had 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:40.319 a vantage point to see anything. It was not possible 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.200 for them to see the crime, not even the bus 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.240 driver who would have had the best view. So from 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:48.520 what I understand, there was a rumor that you and 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.240 the Bridgemans may have been involved. We don't know how 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.400 this river got started. Maybe there wasn't even a rumor 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:58.199 at all. Maybe your name came from the cops. Either way, 0:09:58.240 --> 0:09:59.960 it's hard to know. But how the hell is Eddie 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.800 end up as a target of police coercion and get 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.719 forced into making a statement implicating you as well as 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:08.199 Wiley and Ronnie Bridgeman. 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.960 Edward Burning was running around the neighborhood telling people that 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:14.559 he had saw the whole crime and he knew who 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:18.680 did it, and so you know, eventually this got back 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.000 to the gentleman that owned the store where the crime 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.760 took place, and so he tracked Edward Burning down, took 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.080 him back to the store and started grilling him, like, 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.720 if you saw who did this, you need to tell us. 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.520 And so the store owner got the police involved, and 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.000 then the police started putting the screws in Eddie burning. 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:40.800 But upon talking to this twelve year old boy, even 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.920 for a rookie police officer, it would have been easy 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.440 to tell that this kid was fabricating a lot of shit. 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.559 You know, yeah, I mean, this is probably an insecure 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:51.520 kid who wanted to be the center of attention. So 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.160 he went out and told people he had seen the crime. Well, 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.839 and that's what started this whole snowball effect. And then 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.920 the police get this tunnel vision and they decided that 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.680 they don't really care about investigating the crime. In fact, 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.360 when they did investigate the crime. When investigation they did, 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:11.360 they collected physical evidence from the scene, but inconveniently, none 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.440 of it matched you, Ronnie or Wiley. So the evidence 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.360 that they did have, which again should have been the 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.720 giant red flag ding ding ding ding ding that should 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.480 have been it, right, all of that evidence pointed to 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.800 other people, including the license plate number of the green 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:28.920 escape car which they. 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:32.120 Had, I mean, and all these people had arm robbery 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:33.640 on their rap seats. 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:37.600 So no other investigation was conducted into these or any 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:41.280 other leads. Once Eddie Vernon came forward, all the other 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:46.480 investigations stopped and they focused on you three guys with 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:48.720 absolute total tunnel vision. 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:52.000 They pretty much kidnapped this kid, you know, and they 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.680 told his parents if they ever tried to get involved 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:57.560 or ever tried to stop them from coming to get Edward, 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:01.920 that they would prosecute them. Had complete and total control 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.440 of this twelve year old kid, and so this began 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:10.000 the process of molding Eddie Vernon from a liar and 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.880 to aligning witness. They pretty much had to build this 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:16.760 case and give Edward burning information as they went along, 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:21.480 which is why his testimony and his statement changed from 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:25.079 day to day, you know, because they were feeding him information. 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.200 He didn't see what happened, and so he had to 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:31.080 create something and they kept the pressure on it. Fast 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.200 forward a few days later, the three of us were 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.960 coming home from a party. Was about one o'clock at night, 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:40.640 and my dad had this policy when he locks his 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:44.120 doors at night, all in ain't getting in, you know, 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.240 so it wasn't not common for me to, you know, 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:48.680 go sleep at the Bridgeman's house, who stayed just a 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.679 couple of houses down for me. Anyway, just as I 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:55.440 was knotted off, I saw lights going by my window, 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:59.360 you know, flashlights, And before I could get my whereabouts together, 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.560 the door was exploded in the room was filled with 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:07.960 police officers who with guns lights, and they were shouting 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.080 my name and was shouting at Bridgeman's names. They got 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.040 me first because I was right there on the couch 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.160 in the front room where the door was kicked in, 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:16.960 So they grabbed me, threw. 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.920 Me to the floor, knees in the black. 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.760 Handcuffed me, asking me what were the Bridgeman's at And 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:24.720 I was so confused. I didn't know what to say 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:26.800 because I was horrified. I mean, it was just like 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:30.200 a total shock. But by the time they drugged me 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.280 outside and had me on top of a police car, 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.240 I could look down the street and see my entire family. 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:47.560 I could see my entire family stressed out in the street, 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.480 and every one of them had a shotgun pointed at 0:13:50.480 --> 0:14:03.800 their heads. 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.800 This episode is underwritten by global law firm Greenberg Traig 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.360 through its pro bono program. Greenberg TRAIG leverages its more 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.240 than twenty four hundred lawyers across forty two offices to 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:18.240 serve the greater good of our communities and provide equal 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.760 access to justice for all. In the field of criminal justice, 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:26.000 Greenberg Triwerg attorneys have exonerated in freedomand in Philadelphia, represent 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:29.200 numerous individuals previously sentenced to life for crimes committed as 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:33.240 juveniles and resentencing hearings, and received the American Bar Association's 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.760 twenty twenty one Exceptional Service Award for Death Penalty Representation 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:40.520 for their work on five death penalty cases. GT is 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:44.000 reimagining what big law can be because a more just 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.120 world only happens by design. 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.320 It became obvious to me that they had hit my 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:59.120 house first en route to the Brisma's house, and they 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.720 finally got to Bri out of the house, and I mean, 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.240 we were still just totally in shock. We didn't know 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:06.800 what the hell did we do. We had just came 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.160 from a party. There was no incident at the party, 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.760 so we are totally confused as to what's going on, 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:16.280 not knowing that this is all related to that man 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.680 having got killed. A couple of days earlier up at 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:20.640 fair Hill. We didn't know this at the time, We 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:26.080 had no clue. We get downtown the next morning, we 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:30.600 go into a lineup, they do their thing, they let 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:35.280 us out. Unbeknownst to us at the time, Eddie Burning 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.560 was standing behind that two way glass. 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:40.640 And he refused, he couldn't pick anybody. 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:46.160 He didn't pick anybody, and so the police never told 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.480 us we were free to go. Instead, they took Edward 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.080 Burning in the back room, a twelve year old boy, 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.000 unescorted by a parent or a lawyer. 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.320 Took him back in the back room and they threatened him. 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.480 They told him that they couldn't do nothing to him 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.240 because he was a kid, but if he didn't pick 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:06.440 us out in that line up Ricky Jackson and Wally 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:08.240 Bridgeman and Ronnie Bridgeman. 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.320 That they would make sure that he never saw his 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:12.440 mom and dad again. 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.160 They would sending his mom and dad to prison for 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:18.520 a long time because he started this process and now 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.320 he had to finish it. And so while we were 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:24.720 outside in the common area making a phone call to 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.680 call our folks and say, well, you know, they haven't 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:29.640 told us anything, so I guess you can come and 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.880 get us he points us out while we're out in 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.320 the common room with hundreds of other people, prisoners or whatever, 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:38.480 making phone calls. 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.840 And a couple hours later, they called us and told. 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:45.040 Us that we had been indicted for murder and they 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:49.360 were seeking the death penalty. And that's when we found 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:53.320 out that Edward Vernon was a kid that was saying 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.040 that he had saw us do this. It was just 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.480 mind boggling because my mind instantly went back to that 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.560 day when I saw him standing there at the scene 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.639 at the crime like everybody else in the neighborhood, you know, 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:09.720 and like, why wouldn't you say to the police because 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:10.960 there was plenty of police there. 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:12.199 That's him right there. 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:17.560 Because Eddie Vernon never saw a freaking thing nothing. He 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.640 just told a lie like many little kids do, and 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.959 then he got roped into repeating that lie in an 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:29.160 arena where the stakes were well life and death and 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.919 so On May twenty fifth, nineteen seventy five, You, Wiley, 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:38.040 and Ronnie were all charged with aggravated murder, aggravated attempted murder, 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.320 as well as aggravated robbery, and the trial started that August. 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:46.119 You guys went to trial. The prosecution's case rested. Well, 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.159 there was nothing else other than the testimony of this 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.200 little kid who is now thirteen. His testimony was all 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.240 over the place. He initially told the cops that he 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.000 was on the bus coming home from school when he 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.360 saw two men attack mister Franks as he got out 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.560 of his car walked the store, But a trial Eddie 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:01.800 that he had already gotten off the bus when he 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.000 saw the attack, and that the attack occurred as Frank's 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.239 emerged from the store, So very very different than what 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.359 he originally said. That should have been a huge flag 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.760 there as well. An Robinson meanwhile testified the woman who 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:14.080 was shot in the neck that she had been shot 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.680 by a bullet that came through the store's front door, 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.600 but she was unable to identify the robbers, understandably so, 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.760 and a sixteen year old neighborhood girl testified for the defense, 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.439 saying that she walked into the store just before the 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:27.879 attack and saw two, not three men outside the store, 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.480 and that neither of the two men or any of 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:34.200 you three guys, very brave young girl. Several of Eddie 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:36.679 Vernon's classmates testified that he was on the bus with 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.440 them when they heard the gun shots, but that none 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:41.320 of them were able to see the robbers. 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.600 During the course of our three separate trials, we had 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:49.360 nearly every kid on that bus testified in our behalf 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.400 about what they saw where the bus was at that time. 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.439 And that was like ten or twelve kids saying the 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.600 same thing. You know, he couldn't have possibly be seen, 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:00.800 and we were all on the bus together. He didn't 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:02.840 get out before we got all we got off at 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.119 the same stop, and the bus driver he's got the 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.119 best seat in the house, you know, but he didn't 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:12.440 see anything. But it was so easy to inflame an 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.520 all white jewelry when you got a black person accused 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.600 of killing a white person. You know, anything you have 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.960 to say on your behalf, never really not listening to that. 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:23.879 You know, Let's let's get to the park where we 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:25.200 execute this dude. 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:25.719 You know. 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:30.919 And that's pretty much what my trial balled down to, 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:35.760 you know. I mean a judge even said during a 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:39.479 recess that he didn't believe the state witness for one minute. 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.600 But I'm not gonna take the power out of jury's hands. 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:48.359 That's your job as a judge. If you have a witness, 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:52.920 a key witness, you talk about executing three people, and 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:56.760 you say, outside of the court record of I don't 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.479 believe this kid for a man that he's lying. I 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:02.520 saw him and being coached out in the hallway, but 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.400 I'm not going to do anything about it. And when 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.280 you're up against stuff like that, there's no way you 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:08.800 can win. 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:12.639 And let us not forget that. In so doing, and 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.119 not just the judge, but the prosecutors, the cops, and 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:20.040 everybody else who was involved in this fiasco, they're also 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:25.240 allowing the two guys that committed this disgusting crime to 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:26.159 remain free. 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:28.760 Thank you for bringing that up, because it's a point 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:33.520 I try to make so often about the uncounted victims 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:37.120 that off Boss imprisonment possibly created. 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:39.359 We'll never know the numbers you guys. 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.320 Meanwhile, did have alibi witnesses who testified. 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:44.959 I hate to keep saying this man, but whatever we 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:47.240 had to say, Yes, we had a lot of witnesses, 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:52.200 you know, my mother, I mean, timelines, everything. But all 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:54.080 they wanted to know was like, when is we gonna 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:56.919 hang this league? And I'm sorry to say that, but 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.040 that's what I felt like. You know, it didn't matter 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:07.159 what we had to say. It didn't matter that the 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:11.600 evidence was shitty. A white man is dead and somebody 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:13.760 needs to pay for it. If they didn't do this, 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.240 they probably did something else, you know, And that was 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:18.560 the Bavaili attitude. 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.000 How can you be prepared. 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:28.080 To kill three young men based on almost absolutely nothing, 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.920 but they were willing to and didn't blink an eye 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:34.040 about it. I spent two and a half years on 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:38.600 death road. I came within two months of being executed. 0:21:42.640 --> 0:22:04.119 This has got to stop. For a long time, I 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:08.720