Speaker 1: I think we all need to just embrace the fact
Speaker 1: that perfect is harmful and the imperfect is actually better.
Speaker 1: And so if you are a perfectionist and you're like,
Speaker 1: well I want to get this perfect, then you best
Speaker 1: make mistakes in front of your kids.
Speaker 2: So we're all very interconnected here. You sure are. Now
Speaker 2: I also have to.
Speaker 3: Can I say this, I'm not billed.
Speaker 2: I almost was Alisa's step grandmother. That'd be a step
Speaker 2: gree Can you imagine my daughter almost well I don't
Speaker 2: know how close it was, but they almost married her
Speaker 2: father and I would have been her step grandmother. Oh
Speaker 2: my gosh. And it is crazy. But it is really
Speaker 2: nice to see that you have grown up and that
Speaker 2: you are now a PhD and a very accomplished writer
Speaker 2: and an amazing doctor. And you have helped so so
Speaker 2: many people with seedlings and the other things that you
Speaker 2: do for people. And thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you for being very excited for this.
Speaker 2: Well it's for me. It's terrific to be back here
Speaker 2: at the ninety second Street, New York. Why And tonight,
Speaker 2: as I said, we're talking to doctor Lisa Prisman about
Speaker 2: her new book just out today. She appeared on the
Speaker 2: Today Show this morning, and the book on Amazon is
Speaker 2: number twenty in the bestseller list, which is amazing. Congratulations.
Speaker 2: The brother's entitle the Five Principles of Parenting. We're also
Speaker 2: recording our conversation tonight to post on my podcast, the
Speaker 2: Martha Podcast on iHeart.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 2: I've known Elisa as a parent and as a parenting
Speaker 2: expert for a long time. She is a developmental psychologist
Speaker 2: and the co founder of Seedlingks Group and the Mount
Speaker 2: Sinai Parenting Center, and she hosts the popular podcast Raising
Speaker 2: Good Humans. That's another kind of coincidence. You and I
Speaker 2: both work at Mount Sinai. I have the Martha Stewart
Speaker 2: Center for a Living for geriatric medicine, and you are
Speaker 2: dealing with children. Yeah, just different, that's right, different age groups.
Speaker 2: And by the way, Raising Good Humans has over twenty
Speaker 2: million downloads. So we're here because we're afraid that we
Speaker 2: have or will screw up our children. But doctor Eli's
Speaker 2: imprisonment is here to help all of us. So, Eliza,
Speaker 2: have we screwed up our kids? Okay? Or are we
Speaker 2: in the process of doing so?
Speaker 1: No, we are not in the process of doing so,
Speaker 1: but we do need to take a beat and realize
Speaker 1: that it's not as hard, the science is not as
Speaker 1: hard and complicated and precious about raising our kids.
Speaker 3: But in the process of.
Speaker 1: Holding on so tight and trying to make everything so perfect,
Speaker 1: we might actually be doing our kids and ourselves a disservice.
Speaker 2: Elaborate.
Speaker 3: Okay, so the science.
Speaker 1: Tells us there are five principles. Now, obviously I've curated
Speaker 1: the science and it's very robust, decades long. This is
Speaker 1: not my science. This is the science of child development
Speaker 1: and human development.
Speaker 3: So there are five.
Speaker 1: Principles relationship, reflection, regulation, rules, and repair. And when you
Speaker 1: can adhere to those more often than not, you really
Speaker 1: can do everything possible to not screw up your kids.
Speaker 1: And if we let ourselves have a little space to
Speaker 1: make mistakes in front of our kids, they realize that
Speaker 1: humans are making mistakes, were fallible, We make repairs, and
Speaker 1: we move on. So a lot of this is about
Speaker 1: letting go of clinging to the perfect parenting and recognizing
Speaker 1: that that's actually getting in our way.
Speaker 2: Well from doctor Spock, which I think I grew up
Speaker 2: on and my mom had six kids, I grew up
Speaker 2: in doctors and Mom was so great. She she just
Speaker 2: went for it. But she was a teacher too. She
Speaker 2: sort of had the essentials to struggling with a only child.
Speaker 2: That's what I did an only child. But now to
Speaker 2: mommy bloggers, and there's a plethora of pirateing advice up there.
Speaker 2: What sits your book A part?
Speaker 1: I would say, at first, there are incredible researchers, there,
Speaker 1: incredible psychologists, scientists.
Speaker 3: I have wonderful colleagues.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to put them all under one roof
Speaker 1: and kind of clear away the noise. So I would
Speaker 1: say this book clears away the noise, gets down to
Speaker 1: what really matters. And then there's a whole part of
Speaker 1: the book that's about coming to terms with what your
Speaker 1: values are and what you care about. So I'm not
Speaker 1: telling anybody what is important to them. That's on every
Speaker 1: individual and every family. And then ideally, the second half
Speaker 1: of the book just shows you how to put it
Speaker 1: into practice and the ways that we all kind of
Speaker 1: understand are happening from birth through adolescence.
Speaker 2: I went to a party the other night for the book,
Speaker 2: and every young famous mother was there at the party,
Speaker 2: all relying on doctor Eliza. And I think it's really
Speaker 2: fabulous though, because people really do appreciate the advice you give,
Speaker 2: it's not so complicated, but it is very sensible. And
Speaker 2: how does your book really help parents rely less on
Speaker 2: parenting advice and more on common sense.
Speaker 1: I think by distilling the science and saying, here's what
Speaker 1: really matters. It's five principles, and that's what's in our
Speaker 1: control as parents, Like we can't control our kids, we
Speaker 1: can't control other people, as hard as that is to realize,
Speaker 1: but we can control ourselves. So making sure that you
Speaker 1: control yourself in these ways, you pay attention to the
Speaker 1: relationships that you have, You reflect on your experience being
Speaker 1: parented and how that informed maybe how you interact in
Speaker 1: the world. And then you regulate so that you can
Speaker 1: kind of have control over your emotions in a way
Speaker 1: not to remove them, but just say I'm intentional about
Speaker 1: my emotions. I'm going to be able to make choices
Speaker 1: about my parenting that are intentional, and that you have
Speaker 1: rules because rules matter.
Speaker 3: We need boundaries, We need.
Speaker 1: To set limits in the context of having a close relationship.
Speaker 1: And then when we screw up, did you say screwing
Speaker 1: up kids?
Speaker 3: So when we screw up, we make repairs.
Speaker 1: And it's not that it's like that for everything, even though,
Speaker 1: of course in the book, I go through all the
Speaker 1: different challenges that are pretty typical because I know that
Speaker 1: it's hard to say, like, well, how does that translate
Speaker 1: in every moments? But I think over time, ideally you're
Speaker 1: getting fluent in this and it's quite easy. What's not
Speaker 1: easy is the emotional stuff that happens and the feelings
Speaker 1: that we have because we're human.
Speaker 2: So in this world of such frequent divorce, separation, all
Speaker 2: kinds of stuff. I mean, you've gone through that your
Speaker 2: two lovely daughters. How do you explain all of that
Speaker 2: to the kids.
Speaker 1: So there are two things that I like to say
Speaker 1: that just remind us that the feelings themselves of hard
Speaker 1: events are not the problem. So I like to say
Speaker 1: all feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not. So you're
Speaker 1: allowed to have feelings, including being really upset that your
Speaker 1: parents are getting divorced. The key is that you are
Speaker 1: safe to share those feelings with your parents, and that
Speaker 1: you have somebody who will just be there with you
Speaker 1: through the feelings, not fix the feelings, not try to
Speaker 1: change the world around them so that they don't have
Speaker 1: to go through the hard times, but kind of give
Speaker 1: them the tools dress them for the weather that they're experiencing.
Speaker 1: So in the context of divorce, the kinds of stressors
Speaker 1: that come at us, like divorce, like death, like war,
Speaker 1: like pandemics, they can.
Speaker 2: Be through everything everything experience right this minute.
Speaker 1: Absolutely those can be, when piled on or individually, just
Speaker 1: highly stressful to the point of toxic stress, and that
Speaker 1: can over decades create health outcomes. We don't want mental
Speaker 1: illness and physical illness that we don't want, but when
Speaker 1: you have one loving and supportive caregiver and it only
Speaker 1: takes one, then you can move those stressors from being
Speaker 1: categorized from toxic to tolerable, and that builds resilience.
Speaker 3: So we want that.
Speaker 1: And that is the thing that that when everybody's worried
Speaker 1: they're screwing up, whether it's because of divorce or because
Speaker 1: of the pandemic, or because of some other issue, the
Speaker 1: question is can I be there in a close relationship
Speaker 1: through all the things that are messy, And if you can,
Speaker 1: you're not screwing up your kids. I mean, they might
Speaker 1: end up in therapy, but that's not a bad thing.
Speaker 2: Well, your background is in developmental psychology. What does that
Speaker 2: mean exactly?
Speaker 1: It means that I look get change over time and
Speaker 1: how we come to be who we are, which is
Speaker 1: different than, for example, clinical psychology, where you're looking at
Speaker 1: psychopathology kind of what's going wrong. I'm not looking at
Speaker 1: what's going wrong. I mean I might, but mostly I'm
Speaker 1: looking at how did we get here and what in
Speaker 1: the environment can we shift to support thriving.
Speaker 2: So the true kids in your family, you're also a
Speaker 2: daughter of a divorced couple. Sure, am yeah, And was
Speaker 2: that difficult for you?
Speaker 1: I mean, I will say this research in my field.
Speaker 1: There's a saying research is mesearch.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think there is. It's not a coincidence
Speaker 3: that I went into this field.
Speaker 1: I think having a colorful, wacky I'm trying to think
Speaker 1: of the right words, but having.
Speaker 2: Kind of you can say anything. I know your father
Speaker 2: very well.
Speaker 3: It's not you I'm worried about.
Speaker 1: But I think having those early experiences probably made me
Speaker 1: quite curious, like how do we get to be who
Speaker 1: we are and how.
Speaker 3: How do we bounce back?
Speaker 1: So my parents got divorced when I was eighteen months old.
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I don't remember parents together. Oh so
Speaker 1: I'm sure my nervous system remembers that experience of that separation,
Speaker 1: but I certainly don't have conscious memory of it.
Speaker 2: But was this your goal to study this all along
Speaker 2: through college and beyond.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: I failed psyche in college because I didn't understand freshman fall.
Speaker 1: This is not flattering, but I didn't understand freshman fall
Speaker 1: that you to drop a course, you have to go
Speaker 1: to registration and.
Speaker 3: Tell them that you dropped a course.
Speaker 1: So that was my that did not get received well
Speaker 1: by my parents, and so I never looked at psychology
Speaker 1: again until after I finished college and I kind of
Speaker 1: took a range of psych courses, and when I took
Speaker 1: developmental psychology, I just fell in love with this idea
Speaker 1: that we can understand who we are today by looking
Speaker 1: at our early experiences.
Speaker 2: You're also certified in parent management training. What does that mean?
Speaker 3: It's the worst name.
Speaker 1: It's a training program that they have at the Ell
Speaker 1: Child Study Center that is very much behavior oriented.
Speaker 3: So you give positive feedback for.
Speaker 1: Behavior you want to see, and you give either no
Speaker 1: feedback or occasionally obviously have to intervene for behaviors you
Speaker 1: don't want to see. It's not something that I pull
Speaker 1: out of my hat very often. But if somebody's really struggling,
Speaker 1: and their goal is compliance, like caring that your child
Speaker 1: is behaving versus maybe trying.
Speaker 3: To understand the root of the behavior.
Speaker 1: If somebody says, look, I don't care why it's happening,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to stop, then I would pull that
Speaker 1: out of the hat and say, okay, there is an option.
Speaker 2: Well, you're so lucky because you started your practice in
Speaker 2: a time when universal kind of correspondence was so good.
Speaker 2: I mean, we have Instagram, yet, we have TikTok, we
Speaker 2: have texting and emails. It makes it so much easier
Speaker 2: to communicate. So how have you found that?
Speaker 1: I think what there was something that happened with something
Speaker 1: combining social media, the pandemic, and just all the things
Speaker 1: that have happened in the past that made communicating so easy.
Speaker 3: I think a great thing is that when it's working, it.
Speaker 1: Brings parents together that need support. And unfortunately, the bad
Speaker 1: part of it is there's this inundation of content and
Speaker 1: it's not.
Speaker 3: Really vetted and you don't really know who to trust
Speaker 3: or what to trust.
Speaker 1: And it's not dissimilar to what's going on in the
Speaker 1: news or anything else.
Speaker 2: Back to parenting itself, why is perfect parenting the enemy
Speaker 2: of good parenting.
Speaker 1: Now when you say that, which I do say that
Speaker 1: in the book.
Speaker 2: I thought I was such a good parent, but I
Speaker 2: was such a bad parent in retrospect. And I'm here.
Speaker 2: I'm here for some therapy here too. This is important
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 3: Well, let me ask you a question.
Speaker 2: Not with the grandchildren. Grandchildren are great.
Speaker 1: That's the I think that's another first of all, nobody
Speaker 1: cares about the kids once they have grandkids anyway, Right.
Speaker 3: So you work on that relationship.
Speaker 1: And I think reflecting on what you feel like didn't
Speaker 1: go well in your experience being parented and then what
Speaker 1: happened in your experience as a mother will change your
Speaker 1: relationship with your grandchildren.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, your book is so helpful actually, and I
Speaker 2: do wish it had been there instead of doctor Spock
Speaker 2: fifty six years ago. It would have been a helpful book.
Speaker 2: And how do the new households affect parenting? I mean
Speaker 2: there are two male households or two female households. There's
Speaker 2: divorced and undivorced, and I mean there's so many different
Speaker 2: kinds of households. Does it make it more difficult? Does
Speaker 2: it make it less difficult? At this party? I mean
Speaker 2: there was every kind of household right at the party
Speaker 2: that you had last week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we have looked at this and the key
Speaker 1: is you really only need one caregiver. Okay, it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter what their gender. Is one caregiver where you feel
Speaker 1: really loved and safe and seen and connected. Great if
Speaker 1: you have two, if you of more people in your life,
Speaker 1: but you need one. And when you're missing that one,
Speaker 1: you can even seek that out, you know as you
Speaker 1: get older in a coach or a teacher or an aunt,
Speaker 1: but or aunt depending. And so it really the thing
Speaker 1: that we worry about is, you know, I'm divorced, I'm
Speaker 1: a single parent, i'm a single sex household, you know,
Speaker 1: all the different things that don't feel traditional. But that's
Speaker 1: not actually impacting kids. What impacts kids is the relationship.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that we have to focus on.
Speaker 1: And we try to focus on the things. And I remember,
Speaker 1: like I didn't want to get divorced, even though it
Speaker 1: was the right thing for our family, because.
Speaker 3: I thought that's not good for kids.
Speaker 1: But when you really peel back the research, the problem
Speaker 1: is it's not the actual divorce. It's issues with finance,
Speaker 1: it's issues with the co parents, not getting along and
Speaker 1: having tension, putting the kids in between. Like, the issue
Speaker 1: isn't the actual single parent household.
Speaker 2: What are the most common dilemmas that you hear from
Speaker 2: parents or a parent or because you probably have lot,
Speaker 2: how many single parents do you have a lot?
Speaker 1: Probably I have fewer single parents, but I do have
Speaker 1: single parents. But I will say I usually don't have
Speaker 1: both parents contacting me.
Speaker 3: It's usually one parent one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then maybe they tell the other parents, and
Speaker 1: I don't know that they deliver the message accurately.
Speaker 3: I feel like sometimes it's just like that's what Elsa said.
Speaker 1: But I think the biggest pain point for parents right
Speaker 1: now is balancing how to have a close relationship with
Speaker 1: also having boundaries and rules that are helping them.
Speaker 3: Be members of society.
Speaker 1: And so the discomfort in that, like seeing your child
Speaker 1: uncomfortable is really hard for people.
Speaker 3: Which makes sense. It's hard, but when we fix everything
Speaker 3: and make it easy.
Speaker 1: We don't give them the opportunity to know that feelings
Speaker 1: that are the challenges are survivable.
Speaker 2: And what kind of lessons can grandparents learn from your book?
Speaker 1: Well, the same lessons is that your relationship is what's important.
Speaker 1: That when you pause and don't just react, and you
Speaker 1: really listen to what this human needs. I actually think
Speaker 1: one cool thing for grandparents is to really take the
Speaker 1: opportunity because you're not in the same The tension is
Speaker 1: not the same as when you're a parent and you're like,
Speaker 1: it's all on me, So you can enjoy these children
Speaker 1: in a different kind of way. And you can also say, like,
Speaker 1: let me get to know you. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: turn you into the person that I want you to be.
Speaker 1: I'm going to get to know who you are, so
Speaker 1: you can be the person you are. And because I
Speaker 1: know you obviously are garden I mean, who's better at gardening?
Speaker 1: It's not dissimilar in the sense that there are different
Speaker 1: kinds of plants, there are different kinds of flowers, they
Speaker 1: need different care. And it's the same thing with children
Speaker 1: and their temperament. Some children need a different kind of
Speaker 1: care than others. So even just paying attention to your
Speaker 1: two different grandchildren, do they come into this world just
Speaker 1: sort of with a different way of being and responding?
Speaker 1: Is one more sensitive than the other one? Does one
Speaker 1: get more upset?
Speaker 2: Easily? Pay you attention? Right? Yeah, So the first half
Speaker 2: your book lays out your five principles, the five RS
Speaker 2: of parenting. It sounds like the five d's of going
Speaker 2: public on death dementia. You know, they're terrible, the five d's.
Speaker 2: I had to write that. You have to write them
Speaker 2: in your perspectus when you're going public. Oh my gosh, Yes,
Speaker 2: it's horrible. But let's let's talk through. Let's talk through
Speaker 2: the five rs carefully. Relationships.
Speaker 1: Okay, figuring out how you connect is really key. So
Speaker 1: do you ever think about, like, how do you best
Speaker 1: connect with the kids, the grand kids.
Speaker 2: Let's let's do the grand Yeah, let's do the ranchildren.
Speaker 2: Now you have to really just distinguish and pay attention
Speaker 2: to what they are.
Speaker 1: I think, do you notice when you feel.
Speaker 2: Going to turn this into a therapy?
Speaker 1: So tell me a little bit about the experience being connected.
Speaker 1: You don't need to do that, but I'm curious. I
Speaker 1: think it's just something to think about. What what helps
Speaker 1: you connect? What makes you feel like, oh I like
Speaker 1: being here, I feel connected.
Speaker 2: Well, give me there's something that they wouldn't get otherwise,
Speaker 2: like four seats a nixed game with the Celtics. You know,
Speaker 2: if I can do that, if I can deliver that
Speaker 2: to the kid there and with his friends. You can
Speaker 2: invite friends to come along, then all is well for
Speaker 2: a moment, for a moment, remember that grandparents and parents too.
Speaker 2: I mean, it really does help, actually, but it's not
Speaker 2: about the gift so much. It's about the experience of
Speaker 2: the gift.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one way that you find that you can
Speaker 1: kind of draw them in and laugh together and enjoy
Speaker 1: each other, right.
Speaker 2: And that really does help. And not forcing them to
Speaker 2: do things because they don't want to be forced. Children
Speaker 2: do not want to be forced to do things.
Speaker 1: I mean, it depends because if it's something they should
Speaker 1: be doing, like a service to others, going to school,
Speaker 1: taking the dishes to the sink and putting them in
Speaker 1: the dishwasher, being kind to someone, you know, that's a
Speaker 1: moment where they might not want to, but it's not
Speaker 1: a choice, that's one of your rules, Whereas there are
Speaker 1: a lot of things where dragging them unnecessarily doesn't build
Speaker 1: the connection. And I think being comfortable that sometimes it's
Speaker 1: a have to and sometimes it's not, and deciding that's
Speaker 1: your values, Like I wouldn't be able to decide what
Speaker 1: is a have to.
Speaker 2: For you as a grandparent. I don't like to be
Speaker 2: pushing you have to. Yeah, I don't want to be
Speaker 2: a have to.
Speaker 1: That's actually good advice for grandparents. Maybe for grandparents that
Speaker 1: have to is not super helpful.
Speaker 2: Reflection.
Speaker 1: So reflection, I think is a very unsung hero of
Speaker 1: these principles because it really just requires taking a breath
Speaker 1: and thinking about what you want, what your goals are,
Speaker 1: what your intentions are, and what your past experiences were.
Speaker 1: So if there's something in your childhood that you didn't
Speaker 1: really make sense of, it's going to come out in
Speaker 1: your relationships. So reflection is hard. A lot of people
Speaker 1: just want to skip it.
Speaker 3: Do you ever, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like really thinking about how you know, what was your
Speaker 1: life like when you were a kid, it was great,
Speaker 1: and so what if it was great? Were you trying
Speaker 1: to replicate that experience? Were you wondering why that wasn't happening?
Speaker 2: It was very different being having six kids running around
Speaker 2: a house, yeah, and not very much money and one
Speaker 2: child running around a house with more money and more opportunities,
Speaker 2: more travel, more excitement. But my life was so exciting.
Speaker 2: It was so nice with six kids right there, Fron, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was more fun or more inclusive. I think instead
Speaker 2: of exclusive So reflection. What about regulation is that rules? No,
Speaker 2: that's not R rules.
Speaker 3: You have to regulate.
Speaker 1: So when your children, because a lot of people say,
Speaker 1: how do I get my child to have self regulation?
Speaker 3: And self regulation is just kind of your.
Speaker 1: Capacity to have intentional behaviors, intentional emotions, your goal oriented.
Speaker 1: You're not just using your primitive brain and being reactive
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 3: You're not flying off the handle at.
Speaker 1: The barista for messing up, because you can take a
Speaker 1: moment and say, is that going to serve me or
Speaker 1: anybody else around me? Probably not, And so if you
Speaker 1: struggle with that, it's something to work on so that
Speaker 1: your kids can learn from borrowing your nervous system. That's
Speaker 1: called coregulation. But if you haven't figured out how to
Speaker 1: regulate yourself, it's hard for the kids to learn. It's
Speaker 1: also highly associated with the positive outcomes that we think about,
Speaker 1: so it's actually more predictive than IQ of academic success
Speaker 1: and rules.
Speaker 3: Okay, rules are.
Speaker 1: Just an R word for boundaries and setting limits. So
Speaker 1: the boundaries are what's interpersonal between us, and limits should
Speaker 1: be done by the parents. Yeah, if it's not done
Speaker 1: if you're just in a close relationship.
Speaker 3: But you have no rules, it doesn't.
Speaker 2: Feel safe and repair when other things go wrong, except
Speaker 2: what happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when there's a disconnection, it's bringing you back to
Speaker 1: being connected. And that's going to happen all the time.
Speaker 1: We never always connected. So just believing and showing your
Speaker 1: kids that we come back and we're steady and sometimes
Speaker 1: we're having a moment where we're disconnected, but then we
Speaker 1: come back together. And I think that's one that helps
Speaker 1: us not feel like things are perfect, which is there
Speaker 1: is something to that because so many things that you
Speaker 1: do have to be perfect.
Speaker 3: Or they would not they just wouldn't work as well well.
Speaker 3: But this is not.
Speaker 1: The relationships can't be and so they have to be
Speaker 1: able to come back to connection.
Speaker 2: Well, which leads if if I guess to repair, if
Speaker 2: you have trouble with that, it leads to resilience. Now
Speaker 2: is resilience important?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the key is that these I
Speaker 1: chose five principles that are very highly linked with resilience.
Speaker 1: And resilience is like you you can bounce back in
Speaker 1: the face of setbacks and adversity and you know, deep
Speaker 1: stress and trauma. So resilience is super important. It's not
Speaker 1: something that you just have as a quality. It's something
Speaker 1: you need to have support for. And there's also life
Speaker 1: circumstances that make it harder.
Speaker 2: But when a parent gets sick, yeah and so and
Speaker 2: you have to you have to have resilience. You have
Speaker 2: to put on a good face or whatever you have
Speaker 2: to do to make your children not feel uncomfortable right.
Speaker 1: Or let them know that that feeling of discomfort is
Speaker 1: okay and it makes sense, and you'll be there to
Speaker 1: talk to them about it and hold them through it.
Speaker 3: But that you're not trying to pretend it to doesn't exist.
Speaker 2: As a grandlaw I entertain the friends of my grandchildren.
Speaker 2: I try to do that on a regular basis, and
Speaker 2: so I find some kids are just so great in summer,
Speaker 2: not so great, but they're so pleasant and so caring
Speaker 2: and so nice to their friends and and that kind
Speaker 2: of that kind of camaraderie with you with their peers
Speaker 2: is so delightful.
Speaker 1: A lot of things are developed because you're you can
Speaker 1: have a temperament like I. You know, you might bend
Speaker 1: a little bit more thoughtful, but usually you also have
Speaker 1: someone modeling that for you and having that expectation, and
Speaker 1: over time you get a feedback loop that that feels good,
Speaker 1: because it does feel good, and and so there's there's
Speaker 1: better connection. But there are some kids, of course, I mean,
Speaker 1: sometimes you just come out and you're just a certain way.
Speaker 2: But for the most part we can help watch Fargo.
Speaker 2: I've never seen such rotten children as an Fargo. Usually
Speaker 2: have you ever had to deal with anything that bad?
Speaker 1: Typically, if a child is developing, they go through phases.
Speaker 1: So sometimes you go through a rotten phase, but with
Speaker 1: loving support and with your parents believing, like, look, your
Speaker 1: behavior is rotten, but you are not rotten. That's important
Speaker 1: because you don't want to name, you don't want to
Speaker 1: call out and shame who a person is. You might
Speaker 1: say their behavior is unacceptable, but their core is acceptable.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the difference between kids who can
Speaker 1: realize they can do better and kids who are like
Speaker 1: I guess I'm you know, I guess I'm terrible.
Speaker 2: So what I get from the book when I having
Speaker 2: read it is that over the overreaching goal is to
Speaker 2: really build resiliency in a human being. And so those
Speaker 2: hallmarks are a resilient child or.
Speaker 1: Was it well, I mean it's a bounce back ability, okact,
Speaker 1: you know when you have a setback, can you come
Speaker 1: back from it?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean you're not going to have trouble, that
Speaker 1: it's not going to hurt, that you're not going to
Speaker 1: feel hard feeling. It just means like you can weather
Speaker 1: the storms. There are skills we can build in our
Speaker 1: kids that are very much resilience. Building gratitude, autonomy, motivation, empathy,
Speaker 1: and self regulation. Those are skills that are very much
Speaker 1: linked with resilience bouncing back.
Speaker 2: So that's a skill, not a quality of.
Speaker 1: Oh so some people, sure, there are dandelions that just
Speaker 1: came out of the womb and they just are like,
Speaker 1: I don't need anything but a tiny bit of sunlight,
Speaker 1: water and spoil it.
Speaker 3: I'm growing anywhere.
Speaker 1: But for the most part, if you're not a dandelion,
Speaker 1: your resilience comes from building these skills, and you have
Speaker 1: to exercise the muscles to get those skills.
Speaker 2: The second half of your book gives examples of how
Speaker 2: to apply the five principles to any common parenting situation.
Speaker 2: So you talk about tempest versus crisis.
Speaker 1: From every parent that I've talked to and being a
Speaker 1: parent from birth through adolescence, what are each of the
Speaker 1: points where somebody comes to me and says, like, this
Speaker 1: is really hard, and it's so often the same thing,
Speaker 1: and it's just finding out we're not alone. This is
Speaker 1: happening for a lot of us, and there are ways
Speaker 1: to respond. It doesn't mean you're going to get the
Speaker 1: outcome that you're looking for in that moment. It really
Speaker 1: is a long game. I would think of this as
Speaker 1: a marathon.
Speaker 2: We have questions from the audience. Yes, I want to
Speaker 2: answer some of these, Doctor Elisa. When my kids test
Speaker 2: me by not putting coat on, I ignore it. But
Speaker 2: if we've got to go, I end up losing my temper.
Speaker 2: Any chips, Rice and Brooklyn.
Speaker 3: How old are the kids?
Speaker 2: I think I'm six years old and four years old.
Speaker 2: That's pretty young.
Speaker 3: That's pretty young. One of the things is you can
Speaker 3: just decide.
Speaker 1: This is what my expectation is that you're putting a
Speaker 1: coat on. If you're not putting your coat on, and
Speaker 1: I don't have time to argue, you can hold.
Speaker 3: Your coat, we'll go outside. When you get cold, you'll
Speaker 3: put your coat on.
Speaker 1: And that is all about our own regulation, Like why
Speaker 1: is it worth getting Why are you about that?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Like yeah, it's almost like decide what really matters, and
Speaker 1: don't waste your time arguing about the stuff that's just annoying.
Speaker 2: Catching the bus is more important and putting your coat on.
Speaker 2: How do you manage anger outbursts.
Speaker 3: From yourself or from the child?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It doesn't say okay.
Speaker 1: Interestingly, it's the same thing, okay, thank you, it's the
Speaker 1: same You would do the same thing. So when there's
Speaker 1: an anger outburst, you want to regulate yourself and recognize
Speaker 1: this alarm system that we have. So if you think
Speaker 1: about how we tell ourselves if there's an emergency and
Speaker 1: we need to be angry, we need to fight, what's fight,
Speaker 1: flight or freeze?
Speaker 3: It's that's what a stress response is.
Speaker 1: So if a child is having an angry outburst, most
Speaker 1: likely it's because they're having a stress response. Something is
Speaker 1: making them feel like they are threatened, They don't like something,
Speaker 1: something doesn't feel good, something makes them angry, so they
Speaker 1: go into that outburst because.
Speaker 3: They don't have self regulation yet.
Speaker 2: They don't have that skill.
Speaker 1: And so if we as a parent can regulate ourselves
Speaker 1: even if our child is having the outburst, then we
Speaker 1: can come toward them with what they need and they
Speaker 1: borrow our nervous system. We don't need to meet them
Speaker 1: like a tornado and get everybody in a bigger outburst.
Speaker 1: Over time they catch that, they catch that, we don't
Speaker 1: think it's an emergency. When they're upset and angry and screaming,
Speaker 1: we might say if they're older, like this is untenable
Speaker 1: for me because I can't. I don't want to be
Speaker 1: treated like this. So I'm get your feelings out. Just
Speaker 1: do them elsewhere, and then we'll talk when you're a calmer,
Speaker 1: because I can't be yelled at like this. But for
Speaker 1: younger kids, they really just need help regulating, and it
Speaker 1: might be as simple as putting your hand on your
Speaker 1: heart or running your hand under cold water. Is something
Speaker 1: that engages your parasympathetic nervous system because that tells your
Speaker 1: body there's no threat.
Speaker 3: You could take a nap, and that's what you need.
Speaker 2: When I was growing up, the most popular book was
Speaker 2: Cheaper by the Dozen. I don't know, do you know
Speaker 2: what that is? Yeah, that's about a family that in Montclair,
Speaker 2: New Jersey. I grew up in not Lit, New Jersey
Speaker 2: with six kids in my family, but GEB really doesn't.
Speaker 2: They had twelve kids in the family, so is it
Speaker 2: better to have more kids less kids? One kid? What
Speaker 2: do you what do you think? Ask as a doctor,
Speaker 2: what do you think?
Speaker 1: It depends on your goals. So one thing is just
Speaker 1: simply do you have the resources? And another thing is
Speaker 1: what what do you feel like you can manage? There
Speaker 1: is no we don't see differences in for example, singleton
Speaker 1: children and multi children when it comes to their social skills.
Speaker 3: In the long run, you don't know.
Speaker 1: But in the short run you need little help and
Speaker 1: you need to bring kids around and help for socialization purposes.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't long term have an impact. You can
Speaker 1: have as many or as few kids as you want
Speaker 1: if you have the capacity. It's much more again about
Speaker 1: the relationship.
Speaker 2: The question here is what do you do after you've
Speaker 2: had a fight with your kid? How do you separate
Speaker 2: the values that you want to raise your kids with
Speaker 2: from the ones that raised you.
Speaker 1: So that's reflection, and that's really just making a decision.
Speaker 1: I like to call on a very old trick in
Speaker 1: this field, which is a family mission statement or a
Speaker 1: family value statement, and sit down and just first like
Speaker 1: set a five minute write down all of the words
Speaker 1: you can think of that matter to you about what
Speaker 1: kind of values you have, and then when you see
Speaker 1: repeated things, circle them and come up with three or
Speaker 1: four that really really matter and just say, in this household,
Speaker 1: we value and it doesn't matter. There's no right or wrong,
Speaker 1: but I mean there's some wrong.
Speaker 3: But you just want to know so.
Speaker 1: That you can focus your rules, your boundaries, your limits,
Speaker 1: and how you make decisions around that mission statement. And
Speaker 1: then you can only do that if you have the
Speaker 1: reflection of, like, well, what is my family value? Like
Speaker 1: in my household, maybe it was education, grades and kindness,
Speaker 1: And now I'm raising my kids and I want it.
Speaker 3: To be joy.
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to put anything in anybody's mind, but
Speaker 1: something else, three other ones that aren't aligned.
Speaker 3: Then you need to figure out, okay, I know what
Speaker 3: my values are. These are going to be the rules
Speaker 3: and boundaries in my house.
Speaker 2: How do you prepare a toddler for a second child?
Speaker 1: Ah, okay, you wait until you're showing we're talking about
Speaker 1: a baby, or if you're adopting a baby, you wait
Speaker 1: till you're telling everybody and talking about it, and then
Speaker 1: you can say very straightforward the first relationship, so you
Speaker 1: connect with your child like I love you, We're very
Speaker 1: excited to hear some news this is what's happening, and
Speaker 1: lay out the plan. They don't really understand time, so
Speaker 1: you might say something like it's winter now, and when
Speaker 1: it becomes springtime and the weather gets warmer, we're gonna
Speaker 1: have a baby, and then don't spend the rest of
Speaker 1: the time just fixated on forcing that connection, like this
Speaker 1: is going to be your best friend, this is going
Speaker 1: to be amazing. You sort of don't make it the
Speaker 1: center of everything and slowly build.
Speaker 2: Can you talk more about the social media pressure to
Speaker 2: be a perfect parent in these times?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel so much for parents, and I'm a
Speaker 1: parent too, but I do not pressure myself to be
Speaker 1: perfect because I'm so This is like the one thing
Speaker 1: that I would say I've really I've been clinging to,
Speaker 1: which is we do our kids a disservice when we
Speaker 1: are perfect, because then they don't know that they're allowed
Speaker 1: to not be perfect. So I think when you see
Speaker 1: this stuff on social media, you have to remind yourself
Speaker 1: that we make a choice about the same thing we'll
Speaker 1: teach our kids.
Speaker 3: We make a choice.
Speaker 1: About what we show in social media. We're not just
Speaker 1: showing everything. And you know, unless your whole thing is
Speaker 1: to show how imperfect you are.
Speaker 3: Then you're going.
Speaker 1: To put whatever best face forward seem perfect. Or maybe
Speaker 1: it's even a parenting account that makes it feel like
Speaker 1: every moment has to be perfect. And I think we
Speaker 1: all need to just embrace the fact that perfect is
Speaker 1: harmful and the imperfect is actually better. And so if
Speaker 1: you are a perfectionist and you're like, well, I want
Speaker 1: to get this perfect, then you best make mistakes in
Speaker 1: front of your kids.
Speaker 2: How do you emotionally respond to a talker throwing a
Speaker 2: temper tenttrum?
Speaker 1: You can see how you really only need for five
Speaker 1: principles because I'm going to say the same thing, which
Speaker 1: is okay, I have to regulate myself and remind myself
Speaker 1: this toddler is not being chased by a saber tooth tiger.
Speaker 1: Everybody is safe. This is a feeling. I'm going to
Speaker 1: do what I need to remind myself of that, Like
Speaker 1: I'm a big hand on part person, because that makes
Speaker 1: me feel a little bit like a little oxytocin hit.
Speaker 1: That's a that's a little thing that some people do.
Speaker 1: Some people get annoyed by it. You have to know yourself.
Speaker 1: Whatever you can do to take a breath and tell yourself,
Speaker 1: there is not an emergency. I don't need to chase
Speaker 1: this toddler around to make this toddler feel better.
Speaker 3: I can just be available and.
Speaker 1: Let them know that I'm here through you know, my
Speaker 1: nervous system saying it, even if they're screaming, and when
Speaker 1: they're ready, they come to you and they might need
Speaker 1: a hug.
Speaker 3: But you don't need to chase the.
Speaker 1: Feeling and fix it with like giving them the blue
Speaker 1: cup when they wanted it, or changing everything around or
Speaker 1: your seat because they're so upset. You can just understand
Speaker 1: that sometimes it's very hard to be a toddler.
Speaker 2: Here's a good one. My kids are at thirteen and sixteen.
Speaker 2: Is it too late?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, No, I mean we're talking about a
Speaker 1: late right. No, It's never too late. That's the cool
Speaker 1: thing about being humans. We are constantly growing and changing,
Speaker 1: and it's never too late.
Speaker 2: When it comes to punishment or consequences. In negotiating the
Speaker 2: type of punishment, is it more damaging as the teenage?
Speaker 2: This is a teenager Problemly they write, example, no cell
Speaker 2: phone as a punishment. Then your child says how long?
Speaker 2: One week or two weeks? You know, you're negotiating one
Speaker 2: week or no week or two weeks with it. I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean it doesn't work, does it.
Speaker 1: Typically, punishment for the sake of punishment is not effective.
Speaker 1: You want consequences to be logical or natural.
Speaker 3: So if it's natural.
Speaker 1: Because you're taking the phone away because they were sending,
Speaker 1: you know, selfies that were inappropriate, or they were bullying somebody,
Speaker 1: it's appropriate to say, you're not ready for this phone
Speaker 1: right now, so I need to take it because I
Speaker 1: need to protect you developmentally, and we'll take a break.
Speaker 3: You were misusing it, we'll get back to it. And
Speaker 3: that's it. And that's where rules are really important.
Speaker 1: And if you want to talk to them about how
Speaker 1: long feels reasonable, that's okay, but don't keep changing it.
Speaker 3: Just make a decision.
Speaker 1: Empathize with them because it stinks to have your phone
Speaker 1: taken away, and then you know, except that they're going
Speaker 1: to be really mad at you, and you're going to
Speaker 1: love them anyway, and you'll get past it and repair.
Speaker 2: Any rules about when they should get a phone, when
Speaker 2: they should get an iPad, I mean, schools are giving
Speaker 2: out iPads when you're in kindergarten now, of course, they're
Speaker 2: regulated content. But what do you do about a cell phone?
Speaker 1: I mean, I would push a cell phone off as
Speaker 1: long as possible, like until it's just socially really problematic.
Speaker 3: But we're learning every year.
Speaker 1: We don't actually have great data yet, but we're every
Speaker 1: time anything comes out, it's typically like letting us note
Speaker 1: it take a little bit longer. And just because you
Speaker 1: have a phone doesn't mean you can have social media.
Speaker 1: And just because you have a phone doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you have access to it all the time. So parents
Speaker 1: have to also be ready to monitor the phones. I
Speaker 1: feel like maybe my child had the developmental skills, but
Speaker 1: I did not have the time as a mother to
Speaker 1: focus on helping them learn to use the phone properly.
Speaker 3: So I punted.
Speaker 2: What do you do when your children will not listen?
Speaker 3: Let's just say, if your goal is.
Speaker 1: Compliance, like I just want this kid to listen, then
Speaker 1: make sure that you're very clear about the rules, that
Speaker 1: you're not throwing a thousand things at them, and that
Speaker 1: when you ask them or tell them what to do
Speaker 1: versus what not to do, you're helping them understand how
Speaker 1: to behave in the world, not just telling them no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: all the time, and then when they do listen, let
Speaker 1: them know you notice. But the other thing is is
Speaker 1: that they're not listening all the time, and there's absolutely
Speaker 1: no consequence to not listen. They don't really have a
Speaker 1: reason to listen if you're like clean the dishes or
Speaker 1: you can't fill in the blank, and they're like no,
Speaker 1: and then they go get to do whatever they want.
Speaker 1: Why would they listen. I think they're very smart not
Speaker 1: to listen. So I think we have to say that
Speaker 1: we can decide what's important to us and just say, okay,
Speaker 1: until you do the dishes, the things that you want
Speaker 1: to be doing are just not available.
Speaker 2: My parents and I wouldn't drink my milk. We had
Speaker 2: to sit at the table until we drank our glass
Speaker 2: of milk. It was horrible. I sat there one night
Speaker 2: for six hours, and then I drank the milk because
Speaker 2: I wanted to go to bed, Because you.
Speaker 3: Wanted to go to it. What did you do for
Speaker 3: six hours?
Speaker 2: I listened to the radio was on, you know, we
Speaker 2: listen to radio. I guess I have no idea what
Speaker 2: I did. But then by then the milk was so horrible.
Speaker 2: It was warm, you know, almost sour, But I think
Speaker 2: my parents were good parents because they didn't. They didn't
Speaker 2: they didn't give up on something so stupid as having
Speaker 2: to drink milk.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's another way to look at it, which
Speaker 1: is they maybe for them that was super important, but
Speaker 1: maybe to another parent they're like, I don't really care
Speaker 1: about the milk. I'm not going to make it a rule,
Speaker 1: So then we're not going to negotiate, because I think
Speaker 1: a lot of times we make rules and we can't
Speaker 1: stick to it.
Speaker 2: It was just I mean, when you have six kids,
Speaker 2: you're just not drinking their milk, and that's pretty bad. Anyways,
Speaker 2: six glass of milk. So I don't know. I thought that.
Speaker 2: I thought it was smart. After I thought about it,
Speaker 2: I thought it was smart.
Speaker 3: Did it work?
Speaker 2: Yeah? We always Yeah, there you go, always drank our milk.
Speaker 2: I don't. I do not drink.
Speaker 3: You never will.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: I feel like that's very telling.
Speaker 2: What's your parents keep in mind when trying to communicate
Speaker 2: with a teenager.
Speaker 1: That we are not We are brilliant and wise and
Speaker 1: know exactly what they're going through, but we need to
Speaker 1: just Yeah, being curious and listening is much more effective.
Speaker 2: So sometimes you see a family where one child seems
Speaker 2: to have some strong confident adult have become a strong
Speaker 2: confident adult, whereas a sibling has really struggled.
Speaker 4: What does that indicate It Is it temperament. I think
Speaker 4: it's temperamental, not genetics. There's something in the research called
Speaker 4: goodness of fit. If if a parent is a really
Speaker 4: good fit for one.
Speaker 1: Kid who just kind of came out, responds to the
Speaker 1: world in one way and it just makes more sense
Speaker 1: for that parent, then that child might get a little
Speaker 1: bit more of what they need than the child who
Speaker 1: the parent is not interested in or just doesn't understand.
Speaker 2: How does a parent actually become just kind to each child?
Speaker 2: I mean, my mom was so kind to each of
Speaker 2: us and uh and treated us all equally, even though
Speaker 2: we were so unequal. We could never understand how she
Speaker 2: could be so fair, but she was. It was so
Speaker 2: great and when you think about it, it's an amazing
Speaker 2: way to be. So she must have been a good parent, right,
Speaker 2: You are the only one who knows that.
Speaker 1: I guess so yeah, And I think that it's in
Speaker 1: the that is for us to know, to feel, to decide,
Speaker 1: But it's.
Speaker 2: I think all I think all six of us thought
Speaker 2: that that she was a really great parent. A father
Speaker 2: not so much. But the mother was the mother. But
Speaker 2: you only needed one, Yeah, only once to see she
Speaker 2: was the one. Now I'm understanding my youth. It was
Speaker 2: so great. How is parenting different now than it was
Speaker 2: ten years ago? I see a lot of different.
Speaker 3: You do, Oh yeah, tell me what you see.
Speaker 2: Well, I just see laxity. I see parents now, two
Speaker 2: parents working instead of one parent working all less attention.
Speaker 1: I do think that in the last ten years, some
Speaker 1: combination of like the influx of information and the almost
Speaker 1: commodification of this relationship and the optimization culture of parenting
Speaker 1: has kind of exploded, which is why I was very
Speaker 1: hesitant to write a book because it's hard. I want
Speaker 1: to provide information and support, but not so much that
Speaker 1: we become rigid and feel like this all has to
Speaker 1: be micromanaged, but not so little that you're just left to.
Speaker 2: But obviously from the questions we got and we need it.
Speaker 2: We need no, we shouldn't be.
Speaker 1: Left alone for this. We used to long ago. We
Speaker 1: used to have a whole community that was not online.
Speaker 2: Also, we had our grandparents, we had our great grandfriends,
Speaker 2: we had all kinds of people around us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we really need that. It's not fair to
Speaker 3: do this alone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very difficult. Well I should parents not be
Speaker 2: friends with their children?
Speaker 3: Well, but you can.
Speaker 1: They can be friends with you, but they cannot. It
Speaker 1: can't be reciprocal. Like you never want your child to
Speaker 1: take care of your emotions. You're there to take care
Speaker 1: of their emotions. They can share their secrets with you,
Speaker 1: but it becomes a boundary issue when they're like, I
Speaker 1: need to take care of the grown up in my
Speaker 1: life or they won't be Okay, that doesn't feel safe.
Speaker 2: Remember that, and I think that's very important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard because it's fun, especially as they get
Speaker 1: older and you.
Speaker 2: Know, don't live their lives. Yeah, right, live your own life.
Speaker 2: That's very important to say. Any other questions, Yes, do
Speaker 2: you have.
Speaker 3: The other tips for nervous system regulations?
Speaker 1: I have like an entire chapter on that with life
Speaker 1: of lists, because that is a thing. Because if this
Speaker 1: which I do is annoying, there are other things that
Speaker 1: you can do. I put regulation exercises at the end
Speaker 1: of each chapter because that seems to be the thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, all of this sounds great until you're like
Speaker 1: taking time every day to do something that exercises the muscle,
Speaker 1: which is why meditation is awesome, but not most parents
Speaker 1: don't have time or don't feel like they have time.
Speaker 3: So I try to find like micro moments.
Speaker 1: Anything that makes you have a practice of just reminding
Speaker 1: yourself that you can breathe is incredibly effective. And it
Speaker 1: doesn't always work because then something gets thrown at you
Speaker 1: and you lose it. But when you practice every day,
Speaker 1: it just reminds your whole body that you're able.
Speaker 3: To turn off the alarm system.
Speaker 1: I talk about the passcode to your internal alarm system.
Speaker 2: So if you could only give one piece of advice,
Speaker 2: what would it be.
Speaker 1: I think it would be, I give two choices.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can give it, okay.
Speaker 1: I think it would be to remind ourselves that more
Speaker 1: often than not, we are the parents we want to
Speaker 1: be and that is good enough. Or all feelings are welcome,
Speaker 1: all behaviors are not the end, I think, or you
Speaker 1: get the whole book, which would be better.
Speaker 2: This has been so informative and I know it will
Speaker 2: help many many people. Our podcast listeners can find the
Speaker 2: Five Principles of Parenting wherever you buy books, and for
Speaker 2: those of us at the ninety second Street Why New York.
Speaker 2: You can purchase signed copies here tonight. Thank you so much,
Speaker 2: doctor Pressman, Doctor Eliza, good luck with the book and
Speaker 2: good luck with your practice.