WEBVTT - Trump Says NATO Should Down Russian Jets Breaching Airspace at UN General Assembly 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:10.480 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg Business 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.400 Week Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:18.320 stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:23.360 shaping today's complex economy, plus global business, finance and tech 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:27.320 news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.720 with Carol Masser and Tim Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.600 Geopolitics and the world at large certainly a focal point 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:37.919 for US makes sense with the You and General Assembly 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.279 underway here in New York City. We did have some 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.600 comments from President Donald Trump out on his social media 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.120 platform saying, I think Ukraine, with the support of the 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.440 European Union, is in a position to fight and win 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:52.360 all of Ukraine back in its original form. This is 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:56.680 coming after President Trump and Ukrainian President Voldemir Zelensky met 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.640 on the sidelines of the You and General Assembly earlier Tuesday. 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.480 Earlier today, let's see what Michelle jem Risco has to say. 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:06.679 She's Bloomberg White House, a national security editor. She's out 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.720 there in our DC News bureau. Michelle, when it comes 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:11.640 to the relationship with the US in Ukraine, it goes 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:12.600 back and forth here. 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:14.080 What's the read on this? 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.360 Yeah, well, certainly goes back and forth, and as we 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.280 all know, the president does like to be unpredictable. He 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:25.240 likes to kind of maintain leverage and you know, upskating 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.240 what his thinking might be and what his actions might be. 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:32.520 And so while this is pretty jolting and a one 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.280 to eighty turnabout really in terms of his comments around 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:39.039 who is best position to win this war is kind 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.240 of a part and parcel of what we see from 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:45.160 from Trump and his sort of transactional diplomacy and his 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:47.080 unpredictable diplomacy at that. 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.280 So, yeah, my jaw dropped when I saw this. Carol 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:52.680 can attest it because you know, for months we've been 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.240 hearing about the idea that, yes, this war could end. 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.200 This is coming from the president. This war could end 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:02.400 if Ukraine seeds some territory and we took that to 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.200 be to be land here. So this would seem like 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:08.919 a direct one point eighty How does this happen? Or 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.480 let me rephrase the question, Michelle, can this happen without 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.080 us support? 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.200 Well, that's certainly a high bar. I mean, I think 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:20.920 we need to also look at this through the lens 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.120 of what Trump is trying to achieve here. I mean, 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:28.080 obviously he's been expressing disappointment as recently as this morning 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:32.840 and as you and General Assembly a speech about Putin's behavior, 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.680 the Russian prison's behavior as opposed to what his Trump's 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.920 expectations were coming into office, as he admits he thought 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.200 this would be one of the easier conflicts to resolve 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:46.280 based on his relationship with Putin. That has not turned 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.440 out to be the case, and it's frustrating the US 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:52.680 president to the point of him kind of turning his 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.280 strategy on its head and now speaking as if Ukraine 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.600 has the upper hand in the war. So certainly some 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:02.160 strategy in that respect. But to your point, yeah, it 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:05.639 would be very tough, I think, to have this achieved 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.720 without the support of the direct support of the US. 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.360 But that is what Trump is willing to offer at 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.320 this point. He's saying the US was willing to continue 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:18.200 to support NATO to give the European allies the resources 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.040 that they need to pass on to Ukraine, but it 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:25.320 is loathed to get involved. And of course in successive administrations, 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:27.120 the US has been loads to get involved with boots 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:29.120 on the ground to help out as. 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.160 Well, and the President did say, you believe NATO nations 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.400 should shoot down Russian aircraft that violated their airspace, said 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.320 the US would continue to supply, as you said, the 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:40.720 alliance with weapons. This was happening as he met with 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:46.440 the Ukrainian President Zelenski following recent incursions that have certainly 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:50.040 alarmed allies when it comes to drones. He said, yes, 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:51.840 I do, the President said when asked directly by a 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.640 reporter if NATO allies should take down Russian aircraft during 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:59.120 his meeting on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly. Again, 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:02.080 the read on this that seems pretty pretty straightforward. 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:07.000 Essentially, Well, it's that's been an interesting developing story all day. Yeah, 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:10.240 all just in the past few hours. I mean, essentially, 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:12.840 Trump is giving his blessing for others to do what 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.000 he is not willing to have the US get involved in. 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.080 But at the same time, it's still kind of contradicts 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:21.480 or or at least is at odds with the tone 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:23.960 and tenor of what his Secretary of State Mark Rubio 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.839 said earlier in the day when he was asked about 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:32.080 the Polish leader's tusk, his comments on being willing to 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:35.200 shoot down a Russian aircraft and Rubio kind of dismissed 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:39.320 that and had a kind of a vague line around, 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:44.520 you know, diminishing that sort of prospect. But Trump now saying, yeah, 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.920 go for it. Basically, if they're invading your airspace, NATO allies, 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:52.440 you know, take them down. So he's certainly kind of, 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.279 as we say, kind of ratcheting up his leverage against 0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:01.360 Putin in frustration over and not talking to each other. Yeah, yeah, 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:03.200 it certainly feels that way. 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.000 What love that the US actually has when it comes 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.640 to put has been trial well certainly. 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.880 I mean there's a lot on the economic front. You know, 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.440 in successive administrations you always ask, you know, what more 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.520 can be sanctioned? But you know, as the Treasury Department 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.919 always says, and the US presidents have successively said, you know, 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.440 there's there's always more that we can do. And certainly 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.560 in Trump's portfolio, which has been very openly exposed in 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.000 terms of what he wants to do on policy, to 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.800 ratchet up against Russia, he could move a little bit 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:39.320 further to pressure other countries, including uh India and China 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:43.960 and perhaps Hungry as came up earlier today, to cease 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:47.360 their Russian energy purchases. He's already putting more pressure on 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:51.320 European partners to do so, and saying, you know, you 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.880 can't be hypocritical about this. If if you want me 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.279 to apply these renewed penalties, you have to do it 0:05:56.320 --> 0:06:00.520 yourself as well. So he's offering Trump is offered different 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:05.159 options for ratcheting up that pressure on putin Economically. 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:09.000 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast. Catch 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:11.800 US Live weekday afternoons from two to five e's during it. 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:15.880 Listen on Applecarplay and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business app, 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.640 or watch US Live on YouTube. 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:21.760 All right, we should keep in mind that we really 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.239 saw a lot of unity at the most recent FED meeting. 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:25.960 Some dissenters the meeting beforehand. 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.240 Meantime, if you're at the UN this morning, there were 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.880 no calls for unity. Instead, President Trump sailed the United 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.359 Nations and other countries in a grievance laden's speech that 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.960 accused the world body of offering nothing but empty words, 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.320 labeled climate change a con job, and warned open borders. 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:42.400 Risks destroying nations. 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:47.000 You also criticized the organization that housed his morning address. 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.680 I ended seven wars dealt with the leaders of each 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.760 and every one of these countries and never even received 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.599 a phone call from the United Nations offering to help 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:01.320 in finalizing the deal. What is the purpose of the 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:05.800 United Nations? The UN is such tremendous potential. I've always 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:11.040 said it. It has such tremendous, tremendous potential. But it's 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:14.040 not even coming close to living up to that potential 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.720 for the most part, at least for now. All they 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.400 seem to do is write a really strongly worded letter 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.640 and then never follow that letter up. It's empty words, 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:27.360 and empty words don't solve war. 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.680 That, of course, was President President Trump. Excuse me, addressing 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:33.960 the UN General Assembly this morning? Do you want to 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:37.560 mention a headline crossing President Trump to meet with the 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.600 head of France, mister Macron, and also the head of 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.280 Uzbekistan while in New York City? So these headlines are 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.600 going to continue to come with more in the President's spech. 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:46.280 You want to go write to it. 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:48.560 Josh wing Grove is in the House, not in DC. 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:50.680 He's Bloomberg, new senior White House correspondent. 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.120 Josh. You cover the president all his twists and turns. 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:55.920 This was an interesting speech. 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.080 It was it's great to be here, great to happen 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.360 person is a rare treat for us here. Look, the 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.640 Trump Show hits the road every once in a while, 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:08.240 and you know, the aperture opens and welcome, Welcome to 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.680 the second term. You know, he hit a lot of 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.480 themes that he'd hit previously in this, although probably more 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.720 strongly than in the past. Basically, he sort of assailed 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.880 the UN over as you mentioned, climate and immigration is 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.320 two big topics, going so far as to basically completely 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:27.160 dismiss the notion of climate change as a hoax, but 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.200 also on immigration, saying that it's the single biggest political 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.720 issue of our era. So trying to draw the draw 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:34.480 line in the sound. But Trump being Trump, he talked 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.760 about the teleprompter not working. This was sort of a 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.520 bit of his in the campaign. Let's just say it's 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.040 open to interpretation whether that was actually the case or not. 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.920 The uens that the teleprompter was working fine, of course 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:50.959 was yeah, But then was griping about the escalator. 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:52.360 That was fine, that. 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.400 Was not I can confirm the escalator was not working, 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.040 and then later was working. It seemed to get under 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.040 his skin and that's when he went off about the 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:02.600 renovation that he wished he'd done and told them, you know, 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.640 you could be walking on marble, you're walking on tarazzo flooring, 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.680 you know that, right, So you know it's it was 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:11.640 a journey a weave, as President Trump likes to say. 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:13.800 But I think it just underscores not only is long 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:17.240 standing disdain for the UN. Remember, the US is delinquent 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:19.160 right now and it's fun to support the UN. Trump 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:21.240 is given no indication that he plans to change that, 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.319 but also the kind of new grievances are adding on. 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:27.439 In particular, he thinks he you know, he's obviously kind 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.520 of gently somewhat campaigning for a Nobel prize. He talks 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.280 about ending seven wars and he's wondering where the UN 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:35.840 has been. He sort of wanted credit for it, said 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:37.839 they didn't get a phone call. But Trump being Trump, 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:40.240 you know, he got off stage, sat down with Gutara's 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.880 and then was all smiles and nice. So picker Lands, 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:44.680 I suppose. 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:48.199 Yeah, even mentioning other leaders who he had said things about, 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.800 but then at run into personally, essentially saying, you know, 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:52.400 I ran into this person. I can't believe to be 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.199 talking about this, and it's kind of for you who 0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:00.320 covers Trump covers the president. It's not surprising because that's 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.200 the way he is. But for world leaders who are 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.600 sitting there, who are not necessarily accustomed to following every 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:10.040 comment that he makes, especially at the UN, this was unconventional. 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.640 I think that that's I think that's right to say. Yeah, 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.719 I mean, if you're being sort of re onboarded into 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:17.720 a Trump spech after maybe six years it had been 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:19.280 since his last one, for sure, this is going to 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.600 take you by storm. I do think that there are 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.600 things to watch that we'll make news today, for sure, 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:28.440 beyond the speech, including the bilateral with President of Zelensky, 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:30.480 which should be wrapping up just as we speak, right 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.800 or just has wrapped up. Trump has really shifted on 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:37.200 Zelensky a lot. He said today that it's remarkably brave 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.760 what the Ukrainians are doing. That is a big shift 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:42.760 in tone from January, and so that one we're watching 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.080 you sort of tacitly endorse the notion of NATO nations 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:46.280 shooting down Russian planes? 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:48.920 Does that have to do with the recent violations of 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:49.920 airspace that we've seen. 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.640 I think I personally would read that more as a 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.280 Trump sort of handwavy type of comment. I would not 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.080 read that as like an emphatic shift in US policy. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:00.560 He sort of danced around the drone an issue. He 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.600 danced around it again in a separate answer today, but 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:05.840 he did say flatly yes, he thinks that NATO should 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.240 have the right to shoot down Russian planes, not drones, 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.439 if they incur on NATO airspace. So we'll see. As 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:13.640 you know, this is speaking of long time agrievmances. It 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.760 wasn't just the UN. NATO, of course, he has had 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.040 sort of a bumpy ride with but he's been more 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.680 pro NATO as of late, in particular touting the increased 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:26.000 defense spending pledges from Europe and Canada and other you know, 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.679 allies generally. So I think I think you know that one. 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:30.640 We got a lot of eyes on this Macrone meeting 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:32.840 could be interesting. He made a little bit of news 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.000 last night wandering the streets of New York upset about 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.320 the president's MOTORCN. What we can all relate to that. 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:41.760 Everybody knows a city bike is the way to go 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.080 during the UN General Assembly. So if only he had 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.559 a helmet, maybe would have seen the French leader on 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:48.240 the city. 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.400 But we can we can know lovely, Yes, yeah, we get, 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.120 but that'll be going. Trump is hosting a reception tonight. 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:56.920 We don't actually know who's going, so we don't know 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.040 if this is sort of a friend's only thing, like 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.480 you know, Mela and the other whatevers, or if it's 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.520 a broader thing. So we'll see. We don't know right 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:06.240 now whether they'll let the press in. But I'll be 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:08.400 there waiting, open, praying. 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:14.200 Hey, I'll be here outside, waiting on your city bank. 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:14.760 In your city bike. 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.320 I mean, against everything else that's going, we're still doing 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.560 stories about the H one B visas. I mean, there's 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:21.679 just so much josh when you look at the president. 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:23.160 I don't know how you guys do it, because there's 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.720 so much coming at you top of the White House 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.000 agenda right now, because sometimes I feel like, watch here, guys, 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.520 but don't look at here, which is maybe something impactful. 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.880 I don't know how are you sussing out kind of 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:36.920 what matters right now when it comes to the White House. 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.160 I mean Trump always likes to flood the zone. That's 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.880 been a consistent theme throughout his presidencies. I think on 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:43.920 the H one B thing, this is a big change 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.360 and it's a little unclear to me whether they're shifting 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:48.880 it on the fly. Remember they have their big announcement Friday. 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.800 Everyone's brain's exploded on Saturday. They started to, let's say detail. 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.640 Critics might say, walk back some of the things. For instance, 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.080 Secretary of Latini said things on Friday that have not 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.679 ultimately been the policy. And today the new development is 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.680 sort of getting rid of the lottery system. We knew 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.480 that was happening. Trumpet signaled before the whole one hundred 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.280 thousand dollars fee thing that that was happening. But this 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.960 is a you know, huge change, and so they you know, 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.839 whether it's impact on the tech sector, on healthcare, all 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:16.520 this is really up in the air right now. And 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:18.640 it's you know, part and parcel obviously with a complete 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:22.800 overhaul of the American immigration system as he sees it. So, 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.480 you know, people that have each one these now are 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.160 breathing a sigh of relief because there was a moment 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:28.599 there where they were like, oh, shoot, we got to 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:30.920 get back on us soil, you know, in hours. But 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.559 it doesn't look like that's the case. So for now, 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:34.880 that's the shiny thing we're looking at it. 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.280 So while you're here in town. Come back, yes, Josh 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.040 wing Grove. He is Bloomberg News Senior White House correspondent, Josh. 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:41.000 Thank you as oways. 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.760 Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Business Week Daily coming 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:50.960 up after this. 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.800 This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.600 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern up on Apple 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.720 car Play and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.560 You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:07.720 flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:13.200 Federal agents dismantled a network of devices in the New 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.800 York area that was used to threaten senior US government 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.640 officials and bore signs of foreign involvement. This according to 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.920 the US Secret Service, agents discovered more than three hundred 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:26.400 simcard servers and one hundred thousand simcards in several locations 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.800 within a thirty five mile radius of New York City. 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:32.000 That's according to a statement on Tuesday. The Secret Service 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.160 moved quickly, given that any attack could have severely disrupted 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.480 New York at a time when world leaders are gathering 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.880 in the city for a meeting of the UN General Assembly. 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.920 I want to bring in Jennifer Ubank. She's the founder 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.640 of and a Man, a strategic advisor. She works with 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:50.240 companies on cyber resilience, geopolitical risk, and more. She's also 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.880 a former Deputy director of the CIA for Digital Innovation. 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.160 She joins us from Virginia. Jennifer, good to have you 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.760 back with us this afternoon. I want to talk about 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.520 what the Secret Service discovered here. What does an attack 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.160 like this mean, or a potential attack like this mean? 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.120 What would be the goal of something like this? What's 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:09.040 your view? 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.360 Wow, thanks for the invitation today, and man, there's never 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.920 a dull day in national security or cyber is there? 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:20.240 And today's obviously no exception. So what I'd say is 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:26.200 this is quite literally unprecedented activity in its scale, and 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.960 I would say audacity right just that you cited all 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.640 the figures in its eye watering. What would have gone 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.600 into planning such an activity? And so great question to 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.520 start with is why what is that for? And I 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:42.360 think officials who have been working on this have very 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:49.040 smartly been cautious about attribution so quickly because they're still investigating. 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.400 But I think you can look at it as maybe 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:55.040 three or three different bins. So there first there's disruption 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:01.320 this network. This technology could have taken out cellular communications, 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:07.600 emergency communications, and enabled you encrypted communications amongst various actors. 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:13.960 So disruption would have been one possible explanation. Another is threats. 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.600 I mean, it seems like a lot of technology for that, 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.960 but there are some anecdotal reports of threats against US 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.880 officials being made from some of these devices and through 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.960 these means. And then the third one, you know, could 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:31.600 be some sort of criminal enterprise or clandestine network operating 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:36.200 on a large scale. And certainly the timing around the 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.360 one general assembly, the location of the equipment, all of 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:43.600 that suggests something more. And be very eager to see 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.800 what officials start to say as they come up with 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:46.960 more details. 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:48.400 You know, Jennifer, when something like this happens, how do 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:54.200 they know that it's signs of foreign involvement versus domestic involvement. 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.960 Yeah, that's a really great question, and there's there's been 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.960 a speculation in there, because, as I mentioned, officials are 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.040 being quite close lipped at this point because they're deep 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.800 into investigating to get the details. But there have been 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:13.560 anecdotal reports of some sign ups of connection between actors 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.320 using this stuff and at least somebody in a foreign 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:21.199 official position. You know, I think it's really important not 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.080 to go too far down that avenue of speculation. But 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.280 they'll be looking. Investigators will be looking for these kinds 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:33.120 of connections because of course the digital footprint is out 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.800 there to be investigated. So they'll be combing through that 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:40.600 using probably technical tools, using AI, using link analysis, using 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:42.160 all sorts of things to see if they can put 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.240 together a picture of who might be communicating with whom 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.000 through this system that would help them understand who might 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:48.720 be behind it. 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.320 Matt McCool, the Special Agent in charge of the Secret 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.560 Services New York Field Office, said the seizure was the 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.280 largest operation of its kind the agency had undertaken. 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:57.920 I mean size and scope. 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.040 I mean, I'm assuming that there's stuff going on all 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.280 the time between nations and so on, but give us 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:08.240 an idea. I mean, how big this operation seemed to be. 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:14.560 Yeah, it's almost unimaginable, right, just the volume, the scope, 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.879 and you cited the metrics up front. So three hundred 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.320 SIM servers, one hundred thousand SIM cards, all kind of 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:26.239 spread across a region. That is unprecedented. It really is. 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.200 And I think the word I used at the beginning 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:32.000 was it's audacious as well. It truly is, and so 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.400 having come out of the world of intelligence for decades, 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.920 I have never seen an activity like this. So I'm 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.040 going to be tracking this one very closely. Really want 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.680 to understand a kind of how it was done. Obviously 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.760 why it was done with the potential impact could have been. 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:54.280 But bravo to all of the law enforcement and national 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:57.920 security officials who work together to thwart this, because who 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.200 knows which path it could have taken. Was it to 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.240 be disruption, which would have been you know, real pain 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:07.200 and hu the word. We couldn't have facilitated threats? Could 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.879 it have launched some other criminal activity? We don't know. 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:11.600 Yeah, I think the question is to what end, Like, 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.560 what would be the purpose of, you know, messing with 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.320 a communication system such as that. One question that I 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.560 have is about the communication of this, of this terror 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:24.119 plot or alleged terror plot that was thwarted, and why 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.360 the Secret Service communicated this, why they showed us pictures 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.320 and if that's rare to do in a situation such 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:30.600 as this. 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.040 It's interesting because I'm not sure we ever have had 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:42.080 a situation like this, so that we know, yeah, yeah, Well, yes, okay. 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.480 Because they did the great reveal there. 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:45.760 We go, There we go. This is the first that 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:48.239 was ever revealed. But I'm going to suggest that this 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:51.600 is this is unique in its nature in terms of 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:52.560 the scale and the scope. 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.760 But is it unique to communicate? Is it unique to 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.359 communicate a win such as this? Does a lot of 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.240 stuff happen behind the scenes that we don't know out 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:01.880 each and every day That keeps us safe? 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:04.560 Absolutely, And I'm and I have to believe this was 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.520 not as if you know, discovered that moment and then 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.399 they came out and have press release. There is a 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.160 lot of work that went to getting to this point, 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:14.840 I have to believe. And so one of the one 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.720 of the good things that has been emphasized in government, 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:20.160 certainly on the national security side and law enforcement side, 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:23.440 has been transparency. And so maybe we're seeing a reflection 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.199 of that. And it's always difficult because you don't have 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:28.720 all the details. You know, people want more detail, but 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.520 if you don't release information, then you know, people are 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.800 frustrated about that. Can I can I make one point 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.080 about this though? I think it's really important because if 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:41.119