Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. Army host Ramsy's
Speaker 1: job is Rams This job, I am q ward.
Speaker 2: You are tuned into Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1: I'm more gain a lot to stick around for it
Speaker 1: today because there's a lot going on in the world today.
Speaker 1: And let me be the first to tell you we
Speaker 1: need to help each other out. Let's let's put it
Speaker 1: like that, all right, So first up on the show,
Speaker 1: we are going to be talking about wokeness. As you
Speaker 1: may know, being woke is somehow under attack or it's
Speaker 1: like a bad word as a blade. And you know, I.
Speaker 2: Always say they always find a way.
Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy? But I always say, like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's wild because would you rather be sleep? You know,
Speaker 1: like it's just, you know, just the language in and
Speaker 1: of itself is harmless. But you know, we're gonna we're
Speaker 1: gonna peel back some layers there and redefine that for
Speaker 1: everybody so that you don't no longer have to be
Speaker 1: afraid of being woke. You understand a little bit of
Speaker 1: history there, and you recognize the tactics that are being
Speaker 1: used as always to try to minimize or diminish efforts
Speaker 1: on the part of a progressive facet of this country,
Speaker 1: trying to move us more toward what we consider to
Speaker 1: be a racial utopia. We're also going to be talking
Speaker 1: about Bill nine in Florida, so that means more Ron
Speaker 1: DeSantis aka Donald Trump two point zero again, a lot
Speaker 1: of nonsense, a lot of fear mongering, and a whole
Speaker 1: lot of misinformation. And as we know, people are susceptible
Speaker 1: to misinformation, so we're going to be talking about that
Speaker 1: as well, informing you best we can with respect to that.
Speaker 1: And we're going to dedicate our way Black History fact
Speaker 1: to the late King Khalif Browder because he's deserving of
Speaker 1: it and you definitely need to know about that. But
Speaker 1: first and foremost, let's discuss some ebony excellence. Q. How
Speaker 1: do you feel about that?
Speaker 2: Shall we shall so?
Speaker 1: Ebny excellence? This week is brought to you by Hip
Speaker 1: Hop Weekly Media and I'm reading from Fenura. I believe
Speaker 1: that's how it's pronounced. We're gonna celebrate the one and
Speaker 1: only Gail King. So without further ado, broadcast journalist Gail King,
Speaker 1: who was the co host of CBS Mornings, recently accepted
Speaker 1: the thirty ninth Walter Cronkite Award for Excellence in Journalism,
Speaker 1: presented by Arizona State Universities Walter Cronkite School of Journalism
Speaker 1: and Mass Communication. Full disclosure, Q and I are both
Speaker 1: in Arizona and we have a distant relationship with that school,
Speaker 1: so we were very proud that they took the time
Speaker 1: to honor a Gail King, a black woman.
Speaker 2: Forgetta Gibson too, who indeed, yes.
Speaker 1: She was Yeah, shout out Yetta. But anytime we get
Speaker 1: a chance to celebrate someone, especially in the space that
Speaker 1: we're in, we realize how difficult it is to work
Speaker 1: in journalism and media, so we wanted to take a moment.
Speaker 1: I'll keep reading. There's a quote. We are very excited
Speaker 1: to honor Gail with the thirty ninth Walter Conkite Award
Speaker 1: and celebrate her tremendous career, Cronkite School Dean Batino L.
Speaker 1: Bats Junior said at the event. It goes on to
Speaker 1: say she has had a profound impact on a journalism
Speaker 1: industry and the communities across the nation that benefit from
Speaker 1: her excellence in reporting and storytelling. King is often recognized
Speaker 1: for her longtime friendship with media mogul Oprah Winfrey. The
Speaker 1: two women met when they were working at a local
Speaker 1: television station in Baltimore. King has worked as a reporter
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. And Kansas City, Missouri, before becoming
Speaker 1: a news anchor in Hartford, Connecticut. In addition to serving
Speaker 1: as co host for CBS Mornings, King if also editor
Speaker 1: at large for Oprah Daily and hosts a live weekly
Speaker 1: radio show on Sirius XM. Gail King in the House.
Speaker 1: King's net worth, I don't know why that's here, is
Speaker 1: valued at forty million dollars according to Celebrity Networth. So
Speaker 1: there you go, all right, Now, moving on what's wrong
Speaker 1: with being woke?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: I saw a video. I think we both saw this
Speaker 1: video this week. It was of a woman, you know,
Speaker 1: in some sort of on some sort of show. The
Speaker 1: host was black, a black woman, and the woman was
Speaker 1: the guest was a white woman. And the guest says
Speaker 1: something like, well, you know, the radical left because of
Speaker 1: their woke black practices and blah blah blah blah work,
Speaker 1: they're woke agenda something like this she said. And then
Speaker 1: the host says, well, what does woke mean to you?
Speaker 1: To find woke for me? And then the guest, the
Speaker 1: white woman, she started to kind of fumble over her words,
Speaker 1: and she's like, well, oh god, this is going to
Speaker 1: be one of those moments that goes viral, and sure
Speaker 1: enough it did, because of course we saw it. But
Speaker 1: again she proceeded to fumble, you know, through her idea
Speaker 1: of what wokeness is, which I think illustrates she's not
Speaker 1: the only person to fall victim of that. Many people,
Speaker 1: when they're asked to define what wokeness is are either
Speaker 1: forced to explain that wokeness is kind of a person
Speaker 1: who is enlightened with respect to how folks are mistreated.
Speaker 1: This is a loose definition. We'll actually get to the
Speaker 1: real definition. And oftentimes that person wants to pursue a
Speaker 1: reality where people are treated more fairly. And so when
Speaker 1: people attack wokeness, people who attack wokeness are forced to
Speaker 1: identify it. Then they're forced to kind of come face
Speaker 1: to face with the idea that they're on the wrong
Speaker 1: side of history. To be frank, and so not to
Speaker 1: pick on any one person, because we recognize that everyone
Speaker 1: is susceptible to and that is.
Speaker 3: However, not not unique to woke or wokeness.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, like words like socialism, words like critical race theory,
Speaker 4: words that the other side, if you will, uses in
Speaker 4: poor context to stoke the fear or hate or you know,
Speaker 4: whatever their agenda is with their audience, and then their
Speaker 4: audience just adopts it.
Speaker 3: They don't do any research, they don't they don't even
Speaker 3: seek to understand beyond that, and when faced with having
Speaker 3: to identify what it is, they either have to admit
Speaker 3: out loud that they have no idea, which happens way
Speaker 3: more than you would imagine, or they do know and
Speaker 3: they have to, like you said, present the actual definition,
Speaker 3: not just to their audience but to everyone that's listening
Speaker 3: and reveal themselves on the wrong side of whatever argument
Speaker 3: that they're having.
Speaker 1: It's such a crazy thing to see happen. These people
Speaker 1: flounder about, and the best ones are the ones when
Speaker 1: they do come to terms with the reality of it,
Speaker 1: and they have to try their best to try to
Speaker 1: make this beautiful sounding definition have some sort of sinister
Speaker 1: element to it, and it's not possible, because wokeness in
Speaker 1: truth is something that all people should aspire to. Now, granted,
Speaker 1: it is a slang term, and I won't keep you waiting,
Speaker 1: so let's go ahead and read the definition. Now, this
Speaker 1: is perfectly googleable. In fact, I just copied and pasted
Speaker 1: in its entirety because I do want to present both
Speaker 1: sides googleable.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: I like that, Yes, but I implore you to do
Speaker 1: the same, just so you know that we're not coloring
Speaker 1: anything here. Excuse me. This is a term used chiefly
Speaker 1: in the United States, and it is a slang term.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, wokeness is defined as aware of, an actively attentive
Speaker 1: to importance societal facts and issues, especially issues of racial
Speaker 1: and social justice. So it's hard to suggest that being
Speaker 1: woke is sinister. In other words, to be the opposite
Speaker 1: of this is to be frankly a racist person. And
Speaker 1: that's why it's so difficult for these people to make
Speaker 1: it sound bad, because they're like, well, yeah, of course
Speaker 1: I want that too.
Speaker 3: It's only difficult to make it sound bad when they're
Speaker 3: talking to someone who stands opposed to it. Exact they're
Speaker 3: speaking in an echo chamber.
Speaker 1: No one's going to even question it. The definition doesn't
Speaker 1: matter about the question. Isn't of itself a bad word
Speaker 1: in that space. So I'll read some of the examples
Speaker 1: of the language being used, but we will only succeed
Speaker 1: if we reject the growing pressure to retreat into cynicism
Speaker 1: and hopelessness. We have a moral obligation to stay woke,
Speaker 1: take a stand and be active, challenge injustices and racism
Speaker 1: in our communities, and fighting hatred and discrimination wherever it rises.
Speaker 1: That's from Barbara Lee. Here's another one argued that Brad
Speaker 1: Pitt is not only woke, but the wokest man in
Speaker 1: Hollywood because he uses his status and his production company
Speaker 1: Plan B to create space for artists of color with
Speaker 1: such films as Twelve Years of Slave Selma in the
Speaker 1: upcoming film Moodlight. This comes from Jiselle de Fares. All right,
Speaker 1: And there's another one. Being woke to gender discrimination is difficult.
Speaker 1: It ruins things you love. Entire canons of art are
Speaker 1: rotten to the core with it. It's from Rachel Edelstein,
Speaker 1: and I think that's where we're going to stop with
Speaker 1: this one.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Being woke is something that also is not new. It's
Speaker 1: something that has been around since at least the civil
Speaker 1: rights movement, the idea being exactly what it sounds like.
Speaker 1: There's a bunch of you know how you hear the
Speaker 1: word sheeple all the time. I'll make up this word
Speaker 1: right now. But there's a bunch of sleeple everywhere, right,
Speaker 1: people who accept the status quo, people who just say, hey,
Speaker 1: that's the way the world is, or people that you know,
Speaker 1: these are the people that we get the most often.
Speaker 1: You know, change is slow. You can't have everything overnight.
Speaker 1: Why are you protesting? Why are you, you know, demanding
Speaker 1: to be heard and insisting that we respect your rights
Speaker 1: in this moment? Right, those would be categorized in this
Speaker 1: thought experiment as the sleeper right, And it's the people
Speaker 1: who are woke that recognize that it's not only possible,
Speaker 1: it helps everybody, and there's an idea of how to
Speaker 1: get there expeditiously, you know, with some intentionality, people who
Speaker 1: have done research, people who have the insight that most
Speaker 1: folks don't have, that would fall under the category of
Speaker 1: being woke. That coupled with some conviction in their hearts
Speaker 1: and a moral compass that points them in the positive direction,
Speaker 1: would certainly qualified folks as being woke. Right. This supplies
Speaker 1: to black people, supply, to white people, supply to anybody
Speaker 1: who checks these boxes. And it's not until, in my belief,
Speaker 1: we see folks like aoc and ilhar Oman get elected
Speaker 1: to public office and get a lot of attention, or
Speaker 1: really challenging the status quo and being champions of wolkness
Speaker 1: in those more visible spaces that the term starts to
Speaker 1: get co opted by the right and associated with people
Speaker 1: that they hate. The concept. The idea of it is
Speaker 1: hater proof, but if you can align it with someone
Speaker 1: that you don't like, then people can buy into it,
Speaker 1: and then you start to see the idea behind it shift.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they either veil it in poor context or they
Speaker 3: speak directly to people who feel how they feel. Right,
Speaker 3: so they kind of turned into a two edged sword.
Speaker 3: I can veil it in poor context, and I'm a
Speaker 3: good enough speaker. I'm a good enough salesperson that I
Speaker 3: can convince people that bad that it's bad, the word
Speaker 3: bad in and of itself, and then every argument meant
Speaker 3: that I make where I use it, I deliver it
Speaker 3: in that way intentionally, and I get the sponsors I
Speaker 3: want from people who wouldn't even take the time to
Speaker 3: use Google. And or I'm speaking to people who feel
Speaker 3: exactly how I feel and they celebrate me for it.
Speaker 3: So they've done a very brilliant job of co opting it.
Speaker 3: And we've talked about this on a recent episode, someone
Speaker 3: who we once believed in ally assist in that co opting.
Speaker 3: You know, a gentleman with a very popular TV show
Speaker 3: on HBr. Won't say his name because I don't want
Speaker 3: to use my platform to uplift his But my co
Speaker 3: host and brother knows who I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I know who you're talking about, and
Speaker 1: the fact that you don't want to say his name
Speaker 1: makes me not want to say it.
Speaker 3: No, I'm not going to say his name, just using
Speaker 3: him as an example of another person who I don't
Speaker 3: believe it is ignorant to what woke actually means. But
Speaker 3: he has started to show some true colors in light
Speaker 3: of I think himself, like many supporters of the right,
Speaker 3: not defending the right, not defending the right wing politician,
Speaker 3: not defending you know, our former president, but defending themselves, right,
Speaker 3: they start to look around and realize, oh my god,
Speaker 3: the things that are being attacked are kind of some
Speaker 3: of the things that I feel.
Speaker 2: It's kind of some of the things that I think.
Speaker 3: And I'm not bad, So then our former president couldn't
Speaker 3: be that bad, and maybe all of these people aren't
Speaker 3: that bad.
Speaker 1: You know what really bugs me because you're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: What bugs me though, is that people think of things
Speaker 1: often enough to your point, as good or bad, right
Speaker 1: or wrong, as opposed to a spectrum and being fluid right.
Speaker 1: In other words, once upon a time, when I was
Speaker 1: six years old, five years old, I did some things
Speaker 1: that I didn't know we're wrong. This was back when
Speaker 1: the Ninja Turtles first came out, okay, and there was
Speaker 1: these Ninja Turtle coloring books that they had. Turtles was
Speaker 1: cracking listening and there were so many Ninja Turtle coloring books,
Speaker 1: and I was just thinking like, well, if there's this
Speaker 1: many Ninja Turtle coloring books, then they have to have
Speaker 1: some for me. Just makes perfect sense. Why would they
Speaker 1: have this many? So I took a Ninja Turtle coloring book.
Speaker 1: Just made sense. And it wasn't until I got a
Speaker 1: little older that I realized, ye know, that was stealing.
Speaker 1: I didn't ask for that, that was Jack moves on
Speaker 1: yang them. And the wild thing about it is that
Speaker 1: in that moment I wouldn't have known better. But looking
Speaker 1: back on it, I could see like, yeah, I was
Speaker 1: the wrong thing to do. And I don't look at
Speaker 1: myself as a bad person. You know, now older ramses
Speaker 1: a person who's a grown man that has kind of
Speaker 1: fleshed out the fullness of the world and the experience
Speaker 1: of experiences that life holds. I got a little bit
Speaker 1: more to work with. But rarely do I look at
Speaker 1: things as bad or good, right or wrong. Instead, you know,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, there's kind of a morality what feels
Speaker 1: like the highest good in this moment based on everything
Speaker 1: that I know? Am I open to receiving alternative perspectives?
Speaker 1: Is my goal as a human being to put goodness
Speaker 1: into the world, whereas my goal to get as much
Speaker 1: as I can for my own benefit or the benefit
Speaker 1: of you know, the people that are immediately around me.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? How far do I want
Speaker 1: my goodness to radiate? These are These are really foundational
Speaker 1: ideas that I have to discuss in my own internal
Speaker 1: monologue and arrive at conclusions in terms of who it.
Speaker 2: Is that I want to be.
Speaker 1: And some things it makes perfect sense. Look, I got
Speaker 1: to I gotta do my thing first. And some things
Speaker 1: it's like, listen, I don't really stand a benefit from
Speaker 1: this thing as much as other people do. And if
Speaker 1: I can help, then I will help often. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, the story full well, in fact behind you
Speaker 1: in the studio here we have some of our some
Speaker 1: of the things that celebrators, some of the publications have
Speaker 1: celebrated us for all the charity work we've done. We
Speaker 1: don't like talking about it because who talks about maturity
Speaker 1: work we've done. But at the same time, we kind
Speaker 1: of have to because we had a lot of volunteers.
Speaker 1: That was the name of the game. But I don't
Speaker 1: think either one of us had the intention of going
Speaker 1: out there to feed homeless people so we can be
Speaker 1: celebrated and be you know what I'm saying, like, yeah, listen.
Speaker 2: Quite ironically though very loudly accused of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: I remember, I didn't want us to start a five
Speaker 3: or one seed three. I did not want us to
Speaker 3: start an organization. I wanted this to just be us
Speaker 3: doing something right, and for us to do that with
Speaker 3: the amount of reach that we eventually did, we needed
Speaker 3: to take those steps.
Speaker 2: But I wanted to remove us from it.
Speaker 3: Because very early on that was like accusation one, these
Speaker 3: dudes are doing this so that they can look good, right,
Speaker 3: because we used social media to promote what we were doing,
Speaker 3: which more than quadrupled and quintupled or ten times the
Speaker 3: amount of people that came out and were able to
Speaker 3: give back and have an impact. There were people who
Speaker 3: would jump on Facebook and Twitter or whatever the popular
Speaker 3: social media platform was at the time and accuse us
Speaker 3: of doing exactly that these dudes are just doing that
Speaker 3: so that they can look good. And I used to
Speaker 3: always make the argument, so, what like, even if we are,
Speaker 3: it's still the same outcome, maybe a better outcome because
Speaker 3: we're quote unquote making ourselves look good.
Speaker 1: So I just no, I know that I know the frustration.
Speaker 1: I remember I went through with you, of course, But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that that is kind of one of the
Speaker 1: things that you know, folks need to really understand about
Speaker 1: themselves before deciding what ultimately good and bad and right
Speaker 1: and wrong means to them, because there are a lot
Speaker 1: of people who deserve equal treatment. And if you were
Speaker 1: to come to terms with the question that I believe
Speaker 1: it's Jane Elliott. Elliott is the one that asked us,
Speaker 1: you're a non black person, if you would feel comfortable
Speaker 1: being treated the way black people are treated in this country,
Speaker 1: please stand up. She asked a question twice. She says,
Speaker 1: I don't think you heard me. If you non black
Speaker 1: people would wake up tomorrow and be happy to be
Speaker 1: treated by the criminal justice system, by the education system,
Speaker 1: by the you know, on and on and on banking system,
Speaker 1: healthcare system, you would be happy to be treated the
Speaker 1: way black people are treated in this country. Please stand up.
Speaker 1: So I ask you, our listener, if this is kind
Speaker 1: of how you feel, or if you know people in
Speaker 1: your world where you can ask a question like that,
Speaker 1: it shows that they know that there's a different reality
Speaker 1: for us, all of us, and for you to decide,
Speaker 1: often enough, from a place of privilege, a place of advantage,
Speaker 1: what is good and bad or right and wrong, It
Speaker 1: often is going to reflect your version of reality, and
Speaker 1: very much keep yourself insulated from that. And I will
Speaker 1: make that live for you a bit. Because now secondary definition,
Speaker 1: very much a secondary definition, very much a secondary definition
Speaker 1: of wokeness is effectively disapproving. You'll see that also under
Speaker 1: the same definition. So I'll read the definition beyond disapproving
Speaker 1: politically liberal, as in matters of racial and social justice,
Speaker 1: especially in a way that is considered unreasonable or extreme.
Speaker 1: So this is the newish, newest version of the definition,
Speaker 1: and not the primary definition, but very much a secondary
Speaker 1: I want to make that very clear if I haven't
Speaker 1: done so yet, but it basically means argumentative, combative people
Speaker 1: that cause you to feel uncomfortable by pointing out that
Speaker 1: you know, in matters of racial and social justice, that
Speaker 1: you know your version of reality needs to change. And
Speaker 1: often the pushback is that these people are unreasonable. And again,
Speaker 1: that's a very easy claim to make when your children
Speaker 1: aren't getting gunned down on video. It's a very easy
Speaker 1: claim to make when healthcare outcomes are more beneficial for you,
Speaker 1: a very easy claim to make when you're not losing wealth,
Speaker 1: rather the opposite of true, you're gaining wealth, your people,
Speaker 1: your you know, that list goes on. You know, it's
Speaker 1: not just the criminal, just as education, there's employment, there's
Speaker 1: you know, there's historical, documented governmental efforts plural in this country.
Speaker 1: You know that's it's very easy to say when you're
Speaker 1: not combating environmental racism, where your communities aren't being polluted needlessly,
Speaker 1: it's very easy to say that these people are being
Speaker 1: extreme and their wokeness is unreasonable. And so I say,
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with being woke. It's way better than
Speaker 1: being asleep. You know, you don't want to be one
Speaker 1: of the sleeper I'm running with that word. There, go
Speaker 1: for it. And here's a great example of what people
Speaker 1: will pick apart, you know what I mean. So, James
Speaker 1: Bond's books are kind of being rewritten to reflect modern sensitivities,
Speaker 1: and people on the right hate this. They say, James
Speaker 1: Bond is not supposed to be politically correct. He's James Bond, right,
Speaker 1: So the books are being rewritten to account for the
Speaker 1: world we live in. Well, once upon a time, black
Speaker 1: people used to be called negroes until it fell out
Speaker 1: of fashion due to cultural pressures and influences. And now
Speaker 1: it is looked unfavorably upon calling black people negroes. You know,
Speaker 1: we decided that we would be called black or African American,
Speaker 1: and this is where we are now. So to call
Speaker 1: someone a negro, especially like in the government documents or
Speaker 1: on the news or anything like that in a public
Speaker 1: space is frowned upon. And it's because of this same
Speaker 1: type of momentum from people who would be considered woke.
Speaker 1: Things change, such as the way of all things