WEBVTT - Santigold 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:22.676 Pushkin. Santy Gold is an artist who exists at the 0:00:22.716 --> 0:00:26.516 cross section of punk, dub, new wave, and indie pop. 0:00:27.036 --> 0:00:30.516 Long frustrated with attempts to classify her music, she's always 0:00:30.556 --> 0:00:34.036 been a proud outlier among the restrictive categories used to 0:00:34.116 --> 0:00:38.116 divide music. Sony Gold's anti establishment bent was in part 0:00:38.116 --> 0:00:40.076 a reaction to working as an A and R for 0:00:40.116 --> 0:00:44.276 Epic Records Black music Department. Frustrated with what they categorized 0:00:44.276 --> 0:00:47.396 as urban music in the early yachts, she left her job, 0:00:47.476 --> 0:00:51.156 went home to Philly and started a punk band called Stifft. 0:00:51.996 --> 0:00:53.796 After honing her skills for a few years as the 0:00:53.836 --> 0:00:57.356 lead singer, she released her debut solo album, Santy Gold 0:00:57.436 --> 0:01:00.996 in two thousand and eight. The album's lead singles, creator 0:01:01.076 --> 0:01:04.916 and ls artists were a revelation when they came out, 0:01:05.036 --> 0:01:08.036 and led to Sante Gold headlining tours around the world 0:01:08.196 --> 0:01:12.196 and opening shows for Byork, Cold, Blay jay Z and 0:01:12.316 --> 0:01:16.396 The Beastie Boys. Now with three more albums to her credit, 0:01:16.476 --> 0:01:20.836 including last year's Soulstring Spirituals, Santy Gold is celebrating the 0:01:20.876 --> 0:01:25.396 fifteenth anniversary of her debut release. She's also expanded her 0:01:25.476 --> 0:01:29.676 artistic endeavors to include a podcast called Noble Champions, where 0:01:29.676 --> 0:01:33.916 she mindes the creative life with friends like Olivia Wilde, Questlove, 0:01:34.236 --> 0:01:38.276 and Yasin Bay. On today's episode of Broken Record, Lea 0:01:38.396 --> 0:01:41.036 Rose talks to Santy Gold about the unique path she 0:01:41.076 --> 0:01:44.236 took to build her solo career. She also shares why 0:01:44.276 --> 0:01:46.716 she decided to cancel her tour last year with a 0:01:46.756 --> 0:01:50.436 heartfelt public letter that shared insight into the financial and 0:01:50.476 --> 0:01:55.556 emotional toll of touring post pandemic. Santy Gold also recalls 0:01:55.636 --> 0:01:58.516 the moment she discovered she was in a list of 0:01:58.516 --> 0:02:02.276 influential black female artists called out by Beyonce on her 0:02:02.316 --> 0:02:09.236 break My Soul remix. This is Broken Record notes in 0:02:09.276 --> 0:02:13.356 the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchell. Here's Lea Rose with 0:02:13.476 --> 0:02:14.196 Santy Gold. 0:02:15.236 --> 0:02:17.836 Thank you so much for doing this. I'm really looking 0:02:17.876 --> 0:02:20.396 forward to it. I know we've been trying to get 0:02:20.396 --> 0:02:23.396 it together for a while now. Yeah, since I've been 0:02:23.396 --> 0:02:25.756 researching this, since I've been in your world, you feel 0:02:25.796 --> 0:02:30.076 so strong and so uncompromising in your work. Has it 0:02:30.156 --> 0:02:32.756 always felt like that for you? Like, have you always 0:02:33.276 --> 0:02:36.396 just been really clear on what you wanted to make? 0:02:37.236 --> 0:02:40.196 I mean, as a process of years of being a 0:02:40.316 --> 0:02:44.076 kid and like writing in my journal and you know, 0:02:44.236 --> 0:02:46.436 trying to play some instruments and then trying to make 0:02:46.476 --> 0:02:48.756 some beats, and so it wasn't like I know exactly 0:02:48.756 --> 0:02:51.636 what I want to do. In fact, I've read through 0:02:51.636 --> 0:02:54.596 my journals whenever I get a chance. I recently, because 0:02:54.596 --> 0:02:56.596 I'm actually working on a books. I actually just read 0:02:56.676 --> 0:02:59.916 through this whole journal last week. But there's this one 0:03:00.076 --> 0:03:03.516 entry from when I was about maybe like fifteen to seventeen. 0:03:03.556 --> 0:03:04.036 I don't know that. 0:03:04.116 --> 0:03:06.476 I was like, I know there's music in me, but 0:03:06.556 --> 0:03:09.116 I think the kind of music doesn't exist yet. 0:03:09.676 --> 0:03:09.876 Wow. 0:03:09.956 --> 0:03:12.196 You know I wrote that as a teenager. 0:03:12.156 --> 0:03:15.996 Because I just I knew that, like, I liked so 0:03:16.076 --> 0:03:21.076 many different kinds of music, but nothing felt like it 0:03:21.116 --> 0:03:25.356 could hold the full spectrum of what I wanted to 0:03:25.596 --> 0:03:26.476 make or hear. 0:03:26.716 --> 0:03:28.836 Even so I would just jump around. 0:03:28.916 --> 0:03:30.956 I would listen to like rock, and then I'd be like, oh, 0:03:31.036 --> 0:03:32.796 this doesn't have enough bass. And then I listened to 0:03:32.876 --> 0:03:34.556 hip hop and I'm like, this is this is just 0:03:34.596 --> 0:03:37.396 not crazy enough, you know what I mean? And so 0:03:37.436 --> 0:03:39.756 I would just go back and forth. And even when 0:03:39.756 --> 0:03:42.316 I started to make music, which was kind of my mistake, 0:03:42.436 --> 0:03:45.476 I only started to make music because I couldn't find 0:03:45.596 --> 0:03:48.156 what I wanted to listen to. And first I tried 0:03:48.156 --> 0:03:50.156 writing for other people, but then they didn't do it 0:03:50.196 --> 0:03:52.236 exactly like I wanted it to sound. So it was 0:03:52.276 --> 0:03:54.476 just really the art led me to be the performer 0:03:55.036 --> 0:03:57.716 because I just wanted to I wanted to make exactly 0:03:57.756 --> 0:04:00.916 what I wanted to hear. So I wrote a record 0:04:01.036 --> 0:04:04.036 for an artist called Reese, and it was like mixing 0:04:04.116 --> 0:04:05.596 rock and had more soul than I would have. 0:04:05.596 --> 0:04:07.076 Put in because it was collaborative. 0:04:07.636 --> 0:04:08.636 And then I was like, I want to make a 0:04:08.636 --> 0:04:11.236 punk rock record, and then I did that for a bit, 0:04:11.316 --> 0:04:13.756 but then that was limiting as well, and so then 0:04:13.796 --> 0:04:16.556 it wasn't until Santy Gold where I was just like, 0:04:17.196 --> 0:04:19.756 I'm going to make whatever I want, and anything I 0:04:19.836 --> 0:04:21.676 want to go in it is going to go in it. 0:04:22.196 --> 0:04:25.556 And no one will probably want to hear this music, 0:04:25.836 --> 0:04:28.596 but I'm going to make it anyway. And so that 0:04:28.796 --> 0:04:31.796 was the first time that I really just put it 0:04:31.836 --> 0:04:35.236 all down. And I would say the process of coming 0:04:35.236 --> 0:04:37.996 to that, becoming that person who was clear in that 0:04:38.116 --> 0:04:40.716 vision started as a teenager, and you know, I went 0:04:40.756 --> 0:04:43.436 to like I would change my scene and my look, 0:04:43.556 --> 0:04:45.956 like all the time, I was like a Philly fly 0:04:46.116 --> 0:04:48.036 girl with gold earrings and ace metro. And then I 0:04:48.076 --> 0:04:50.996 was like, you know, in a classic rock and vintage 0:04:51.076 --> 0:04:53.476 T shirts. And then I was like going out to 0:04:53.556 --> 0:04:54.636 house music. You know. 0:04:54.876 --> 0:04:56.916 I was just literally like taking it all in. 0:04:57.836 --> 0:05:00.756 And it was until I went to Quaker School when 0:05:00.756 --> 0:05:04.516 I was about fifteen that I started to understand that 0:05:04.556 --> 0:05:06.516 I could like hold space for all these things. 0:05:07.116 --> 0:05:09.396 What was it about the Quaker school that it helps 0:05:09.436 --> 0:05:10.116 you realize that. 0:05:10.996 --> 0:05:13.036 I think it's several things. I think they gave me 0:05:13.236 --> 0:05:17.596 a lot of autonomy to be an artist at that school, 0:05:17.716 --> 0:05:20.876 Like it was like the whole creed was there's that 0:05:20.956 --> 0:05:23.396 of God and everyone, and so you'd sit in meeting 0:05:23.396 --> 0:05:26.956 for worship once a week. That was the only religious 0:05:26.956 --> 0:05:28.956 aspect was sitting in meeting for worship once a week 0:05:28.996 --> 0:05:29.636 for forty five. 0:05:29.476 --> 0:05:31.796 Minutes, and it was in silence. 0:05:31.836 --> 0:05:34.116 You sit in silence unless you were moved to stand 0:05:34.196 --> 0:05:37.236 up and say something. And the idea was anything that 0:05:37.276 --> 0:05:38.476 you wanted to stand up and say. It could be 0:05:38.556 --> 0:05:40.436 anything like I had a dream last night and blah blah, 0:05:40.516 --> 0:05:42.676 or you know, it could be anything, but if you 0:05:42.796 --> 0:05:44.276 felt like you wanted to stand up and say it. 0:05:44.316 --> 0:05:47.996 The idea was that it was sort of worth reflecting 0:05:48.076 --> 0:05:51.636 upon by the whole community. It was valid, like and 0:05:51.796 --> 0:05:53.396 you know, you call your teachers by the first name, 0:05:53.556 --> 0:05:56.036 so it was like, oh, my voice is important, you know. 0:05:56.116 --> 0:05:58.996 And then they had like painting studio. I was a 0:05:59.236 --> 0:06:03.076 painting sort of major by my senior year. Whatever that meant, like, 0:06:03.116 --> 0:06:05.076 I took senior studio, so you would get to go 0:06:05.116 --> 0:06:08.676 and paint for like three hours, build whatever size canvas, 0:06:08.676 --> 0:06:11.156 and do whatever you want. And then I got like, 0:06:11.196 --> 0:06:13.356 I won the art Award, and I like, you know, 0:06:13.556 --> 0:06:15.796 I knew by that point, I had been to this 0:06:16.156 --> 0:06:17.876 all girls private school for eight years, and I went 0:06:17.876 --> 0:06:20.556 to this public school which was a magnet school, which 0:06:20.596 --> 0:06:22.316 had all kids from Uliver City. And then I went 0:06:22.356 --> 0:06:25.076 to this school, and so I knew a lot of people. 0:06:25.116 --> 0:06:26.436 I knew a lot of people in the city. I 0:06:26.516 --> 0:06:30.196 knew all the parties happening, and people were like valuing 0:06:30.236 --> 0:06:32.436 that about me, that I that I knew about all 0:06:32.436 --> 0:06:34.996 these different scenes. So I think I started to be like, oh, 0:06:34.996 --> 0:06:37.116 it's actually cool to sit in the middle of all 0:06:37.116 --> 0:06:39.716 these different scenes and not have to choose. And I 0:06:39.796 --> 0:06:42.636 never felt like I met anybody else who was doing 0:06:42.676 --> 0:06:45.156 that until I was about thirty one. Honestly, when I 0:06:45.236 --> 0:06:47.396 started when I met like spank Rock, I think when 0:06:47.436 --> 0:06:49.916 I met Naim, I was like, this is the first 0:06:49.916 --> 0:06:52.516 person that actually mirrors me in this way. 0:06:53.156 --> 0:06:55.596 Do you remember like conversations you had that helped you 0:06:55.676 --> 0:06:56.156 realize that? 0:06:56.916 --> 0:06:59.036 No, I don't even think it was a conversational type 0:06:59.076 --> 0:06:59.316 of thing. 0:06:59.356 --> 0:07:02.716 It was just like, you know, energetically, I am a 0:07:02.876 --> 0:07:06.796 very intuitive person and I feel people, you know, and 0:07:06.836 --> 0:07:08.876 it was like, clearly, I mean with the music he 0:07:08.916 --> 0:07:11.956 was doing is amazing conversation that he has showed so 0:07:12.076 --> 0:07:13.556 much more depth and perspective. 0:07:14.276 --> 0:07:16.756 Just going over his producer Triple Exchange. 0:07:16.436 --> 0:07:18.796 His house and listening to records, I mean, I just 0:07:18.836 --> 0:07:20.796 knew what their influences were and I was like, oh, 0:07:20.796 --> 0:07:24.116 this is like me. And then Naim became such a 0:07:24.156 --> 0:07:27.356 support and inspiration for me. So just conversationally as an artist, 0:07:27.396 --> 0:07:29.876 it was support as an artist who could actually get 0:07:29.956 --> 0:07:30.436 their head. 0:07:30.316 --> 0:07:31.796 Around the whole thing that I was doing. 0:07:32.196 --> 0:07:34.396 You know. Just to have community in that way was 0:07:34.916 --> 0:07:38.116 a huge part of me being able to have confidence 0:07:38.156 --> 0:07:42.276 and strength, because everybody needs community, and I think as 0:07:42.276 --> 0:07:44.396 an artist trying to do something that's kind of going 0:07:44.436 --> 0:07:47.636 against the grain. It can be very isolating and lonely, 0:07:47.676 --> 0:07:50.156 and then those times you don't really feel as confident. 0:07:50.196 --> 0:07:52.996 And so when you have the community to be like, 0:07:53.356 --> 0:07:56.796 you're fucking killing it, you know, like even if you're not, 0:07:56.916 --> 0:07:59.636 even if nobody else knows that you're killing it, to 0:07:59.676 --> 0:08:02.916 have somebody that's like you're killing it, it just changes. 0:08:02.596 --> 0:08:05.636 Everything, It really does. But it's funny because some people 0:08:05.676 --> 0:08:09.396 are motivated by the opposite. Like you think of somebody 0:08:09.516 --> 0:08:12.596 like a Kanye who's like motivated to prove everybody wrong. 0:08:12.796 --> 0:08:14.516 Oh, I'm that too. I've always been that. 0:08:15.196 --> 0:08:17.156 Yeah, I have that in my little kid journals too, 0:08:17.236 --> 0:08:19.956 Like if some guy like didn't work out. 0:08:19.836 --> 0:08:23.436 I'd like, I'll show him. I'm gonna make everybody want me. 0:08:24.196 --> 0:08:24.436 You know. 0:08:25.476 --> 0:08:27.076 I definitely have that too. 0:08:27.356 --> 0:08:31.196 It's a competitiveness, but it's more like an internal competitiveness, 0:08:31.236 --> 0:08:35.156 Like but that comes from knowing though, it's not really 0:08:35.276 --> 0:08:38.756 from wanting to prove everybody wrong. It's wanting to show 0:08:38.796 --> 0:08:41.636 everybody what you know that you already are. 0:08:42.196 --> 0:08:43.156 Yeah, you know what I mean. 0:08:43.196 --> 0:08:45.836 You have to have confidence to feel that way, because 0:08:45.876 --> 0:08:48.836 you're like, they don't fucking see it. They don't get 0:08:48.876 --> 0:08:52.636 it like nobody sees it. I have to make it. 0:08:52.196 --> 0:08:54.276 Visible and undeniable, you know. 0:08:54.356 --> 0:08:57.116 So that's really a it's really a drive that's like, 0:08:57.956 --> 0:09:00.636 there's just this knowing, you know. That's that's what my 0:09:00.676 --> 0:09:03.116 whole thing is to answer your first question. Is just 0:09:03.236 --> 0:09:07.396 a knowing that you have about who you are and 0:09:07.476 --> 0:09:12.916 about what you can create. Really, that I think is 0:09:13.156 --> 0:09:15.396 what's special about a lot of artists. It's just that 0:09:15.676 --> 0:09:21.116 intrinsic knowing about their own power and magic. You know. 0:09:22.276 --> 0:09:24.196 Has there ever been a point in time where you 0:09:24.316 --> 0:09:27.916 felt like you've lost access to that part of yourself 0:09:27.956 --> 0:09:29.596 where you can create from. 0:09:30.116 --> 0:09:32.156 Yeah, lots of times. 0:09:32.996 --> 0:09:35.836 I remember after the first record when I had to 0:09:35.876 --> 0:09:37.796 turn around and do a second record, and of course 0:09:37.796 --> 0:09:40.276 on the second record, everything's different from the first record. 0:09:40.916 --> 0:09:43.996 The team isn't the same, and like the pressure is 0:09:44.116 --> 0:09:48.236 very different, and I remember feeling really overwhelmed, and I had. 0:09:48.036 --> 0:09:49.796 Some people there in my corner then too. 0:09:49.836 --> 0:09:51.756 I remember Pharrell being somebody that I talked to a 0:09:51.756 --> 0:09:54.676 lot during that period, and he was awesome. He was 0:09:54.756 --> 0:10:00.236 really helpful and encouraging a bunch of other friends as well. 0:10:00.276 --> 0:10:04.076 I remember even when before my first Sonte Gold record, 0:10:04.356 --> 0:10:06.236 my father had passed away, and it was just a 0:10:06.236 --> 0:10:12.236 whole traumatic era of life. And I stopped writing altogether 0:10:12.356 --> 0:10:16.516 because everything I wrote was so dark, even the poetry, 0:10:16.596 --> 0:10:19.676 it was so dark. And I was like, I'm just 0:10:19.676 --> 0:10:21.516 going to put this down for a second until it 0:10:21.556 --> 0:10:23.836 feels a little bit different, you know. And it's not 0:10:23.956 --> 0:10:26.676 that it's not I mean, some people need that need 0:10:27.116 --> 0:10:28.716 that to come out that way, but I was like, 0:10:29.196 --> 0:10:31.156 this is making me feel worse, you know. 0:10:31.196 --> 0:10:32.916 So I just stepped away. 0:10:32.996 --> 0:10:35.196 And then I moved to New York and moved back 0:10:35.196 --> 0:10:37.756 to New York and started going out, and it came 0:10:37.796 --> 0:10:39.556 out very differently when I came. When I got to 0:10:39.556 --> 0:10:41.996 New York, it was like I was about it. I 0:10:42.036 --> 0:10:45.116 was just about the art and like all these scenesters 0:10:45.236 --> 0:10:47.076 was around, and that's when I wrote LS Artists. 0:10:47.116 --> 0:10:49.396 I was like, get out of my face. This is 0:10:49.436 --> 0:10:50.796 what I'm here to do, you know. 0:10:50.836 --> 0:10:52.676 And it came out very different, and it was it 0:10:52.716 --> 0:10:55.836 was empowered at that by that point, because sometimes I 0:10:55.876 --> 0:10:58.796 really believe that I think Joni Mitchell said this in 0:10:58.796 --> 0:11:01.276 an interview one time, that you just really need to 0:11:01.316 --> 0:11:04.756 allow your creativity. For me, everybody's not the same, but 0:11:04.836 --> 0:11:07.676 for me, I need to have fallo periods. I need 0:11:07.716 --> 0:11:10.956 to have time where like I make music and then 0:11:10.996 --> 0:11:12.836 I put the music thing away and I do something 0:11:12.836 --> 0:11:17.636 else creative and let let that sort of the nutrients 0:11:18.156 --> 0:11:20.636 come back, you know, because it's all spent after you 0:11:20.676 --> 0:11:22.716 do the record, and you got to wait for life 0:11:22.796 --> 0:11:26.076 to happen and perspectives to change and have something new 0:11:26.156 --> 0:11:28.836 to want to say. And those are foul periods. And 0:11:28.876 --> 0:11:32.436 I'm actually I don't really consider myself like a musician 0:11:32.436 --> 0:11:35.076 as much as I just consider myself an artist, like 0:11:35.156 --> 0:11:37.876 I have so many different ways that I can create 0:11:37.956 --> 0:11:40.036 and that I enjoy creating, and I really don't like 0:11:40.076 --> 0:11:42.596 making music all the time, which is why I think 0:11:42.836 --> 0:11:44.396 it takes me a long time to put out records 0:11:44.436 --> 0:11:46.036 because I actually need to do other things. 0:11:46.396 --> 0:11:47.916 And the foul periods are crucial. 0:11:48.836 --> 0:11:50.756 But you never get worried like, oh it's never going 0:11:50.836 --> 0:11:51.316 to come back. 0:11:51.356 --> 0:11:52.916 Oh yeah, everybody does. 0:11:52.996 --> 0:11:56.276 But see what happens is over time is just like 0:11:56.836 --> 0:12:00.036 you learn that all feelings are welcome, and you thank 0:12:00.116 --> 0:12:02.516 your feelings and you say thank you for showing me 0:12:03.036 --> 0:12:04.836 you know that I feel this way about this or 0:12:04.836 --> 0:12:07.716 that I need to make this change. And with that 0:12:07.996 --> 0:12:10.396 you just kind of recognize you don't. You don't hold 0:12:10.436 --> 0:12:11.916 on to cling to the feeling and be like is 0:12:11.956 --> 0:12:13.796 this ever gonna go away? You just let it flow, right, 0:12:14.196 --> 0:12:16.316 you know. And it's the same thing with moments of 0:12:16.356 --> 0:12:20.036 feeling uncreative or blocked. You just say, Okay, thank you 0:12:20.036 --> 0:12:21.716 for letting me know I need to do something else 0:12:21.876 --> 0:12:24.636 or go do something inspiring, and you don't cling to 0:12:24.676 --> 0:12:26.076 it like this is never gonna go You just let 0:12:26.076 --> 0:12:27.156 it flow and it goes away. 0:12:28.116 --> 0:12:28.916 You don't panic. 0:12:29.556 --> 0:12:31.796 And I think in the beginning you panic, but then 0:12:31.836 --> 0:12:34.796 as as you as you hit that spot over and 0:12:34.836 --> 0:12:36.836 over and over the years and you're like, okay, like 0:12:37.316 --> 0:12:38.676 the album's gonna go cook. 0:12:39.956 --> 0:12:41.916 Yeah. I mean that that like sounds like something that 0:12:41.956 --> 0:12:44.156 comes with age too. It's like you've been through it 0:12:44.276 --> 0:12:46.436 enough that you know it can be like a cycle. 0:12:46.876 --> 0:12:47.396 Yeah. 0:12:47.716 --> 0:12:52.156 So your debut album came out fifteen years ago this year. 0:12:53.196 --> 0:12:54.996 And that's crazy to me. 0:12:55.236 --> 0:12:58.156 Yeah. So, like, speaking of looking back at your old diaries, 0:12:58.236 --> 0:12:59.796 do you ever listen to the album? 0:13:00.196 --> 0:13:04.476 Not often, but I have maybe every like five years once. 0:13:05.836 --> 0:13:09.716 What's your impression of it now? Fifteen years God's good record. 0:13:09.756 --> 0:13:13.236 I honestly, it's for me, I'm one of those people 0:13:13.236 --> 0:13:15.756 like I don't have any tattoos, like for example, right, 0:13:15.796 --> 0:13:18.196 because I'm the type of person if I get something 0:13:18.556 --> 0:13:21.236 years later, I will be so mad and hated and 0:13:21.316 --> 0:13:23.916 I'll be like, I can't believe I got this. I 0:13:23.916 --> 0:13:25.876 can't believe I dressed like that. I can't believe I 0:13:25.876 --> 0:13:27.636 had that haircut. I can't believe you know, I can't 0:13:27.636 --> 0:13:30.716 believe I wore that makeup. I look crazy like I'm 0:13:30.756 --> 0:13:34.596 that person. So in music, oh my god, like please, 0:13:34.636 --> 0:13:37.316 I can't listen. I cringe and I just get I'll 0:13:37.436 --> 0:13:41.116 like start sweating listening to something that I did. But 0:13:41.316 --> 0:13:44.036 I will say that record, I never feel like that 0:13:44.076 --> 0:13:46.396 way about And that's really telling, Like I really like 0:13:46.476 --> 0:13:47.036 that record. 0:13:47.716 --> 0:13:49.596 I wanted to ask you about L. E. S Rtist 0:13:49.716 --> 0:13:51.876 Uh huh. You wrote that after moving to New York 0:13:51.956 --> 0:13:54.916 from Philly, and was that sort of like a response 0:13:54.956 --> 0:13:57.956 to the scene that was already happening in New York. 0:13:58.916 --> 0:14:02.236 Yeah, it was more a response to me being a 0:14:02.276 --> 0:14:06.156 complete introvert and going out but not being one hundred 0:14:06.156 --> 0:14:08.876 percent ready to feel that energy. And it was very 0:14:09.956 --> 0:14:13.676 see me and like, yes, kind of in the worst 0:14:13.716 --> 0:14:16.596 way that I don't like where everyone's like, you know, 0:14:16.636 --> 0:14:18.476 I literally say everything I thought in the song. 0:14:18.556 --> 0:14:21.676 So it was everybody just looking at you and trying. 0:14:21.436 --> 0:14:23.916 To get you to look at them and trying to, 0:14:24.436 --> 0:14:26.716 you know, figure you out if they needed to know 0:14:26.796 --> 0:14:28.876 you or not, you know what I mean. It was 0:14:28.876 --> 0:14:31.516 just it was too much for me because I was 0:14:31.556 --> 0:14:34.436 literally just coming out of like man, I was so 0:14:34.636 --> 0:14:37.436 I was so raw that in that moment, I just 0:14:37.556 --> 0:14:40.916 my dad had just died and it was like crazy 0:14:41.356 --> 0:14:44.796 flip of my whole world, you know, and I was 0:14:44.876 --> 0:14:48.276 just barely ready to even be doing anything and then 0:14:48.316 --> 0:14:51.076 to step right back into Lower East Side at that time. 0:14:51.596 --> 0:14:54.836 It was overwhelming. And that's what I was writing about. 0:14:54.756 --> 0:14:59.716 Just being really overwhelmed, but being also very much about 0:14:59.756 --> 0:15:03.236 stepping into that power that we discussed, and that clarity 0:15:03.396 --> 0:15:08.316 and that like that determination to like really make something important, 0:15:08.596 --> 0:15:12.436 but also contending with the noise and the kind of 0:15:12.476 --> 0:15:16.436 bullshit and which is part of the music world and 0:15:16.596 --> 0:15:18.836 you know, social world, music world, the world. 0:15:19.516 --> 0:15:22.836 And I still don't like all that stuff very much. 0:15:22.836 --> 0:15:24.516 And I'm still a total interpret I get like, I 0:15:24.516 --> 0:15:25.716 have total social anxiety. 0:15:26.236 --> 0:15:28.156 But you would never know unless I told. 0:15:27.956 --> 0:15:30.196 You, you know, it's yeah, no, it doesn't seem like it, 0:15:30.316 --> 0:15:30.876 and it's weird. 0:15:30.916 --> 0:15:33.236 It comes in times like I have no anxiety about being. 0:15:33.236 --> 0:15:36.076 On stage that I don't understand. 0:15:35.996 --> 0:15:36.796 Well because it's fun. 0:15:36.836 --> 0:15:39.756 It's like I mean, sometimes it's not fun at all, 0:15:39.836 --> 0:15:41.916 like when I'm having sound problems, which is like fifty 0:15:41.956 --> 0:15:44.356 percent of the time, it's actually a nightmare. Or there's 0:15:44.396 --> 0:15:46.836 also like all kinds of crises that happen as a 0:15:46.876 --> 0:15:47.676 touring artist. 0:15:48.476 --> 0:15:49.196 It's not fun. 0:15:49.396 --> 0:15:51.996 But actually when things are going well and I just 0:15:52.036 --> 0:15:55.316 get to sing and be fun on stage, that's fun. 0:15:55.556 --> 0:15:58.676 And I don't have problems like speaking to crowds or 0:15:58.716 --> 0:16:02.716 anything like that. It's more like little stuff like when 0:16:02.756 --> 0:16:05.116 I'm required to give energy in moments. 0:16:04.756 --> 0:16:06.076 That I don't want to give energy. 0:16:06.636 --> 0:16:11.036 Yeah, small talk I hate, or like meeting people that 0:16:11.916 --> 0:16:14.716 I don't really feel like meeting people like stuff like 0:16:14.716 --> 0:16:16.356 that causes me. 0:16:16.436 --> 0:16:17.796 So it's really the energy. 0:16:17.916 --> 0:16:20.596 I don't have enough energy to just give give give 0:16:20.716 --> 0:16:23.716 all the time, So it actually causes me anxiety to 0:16:23.756 --> 0:16:25.476 have to show up and give energy when I don't 0:16:25.476 --> 0:16:25.956 want to. 0:16:26.116 --> 0:16:29.356 Because it's training. How does that work when you're meeting 0:16:29.476 --> 0:16:34.356 like parents of your kids, friends or school situations. 0:16:34.516 --> 0:16:36.996 Yeah, that's when I have it. It's a lot of that. 0:16:37.556 --> 0:16:39.756 I remember last year around this time, it was like 0:16:39.756 --> 0:16:41.796 the last day of school and my kids school has 0:16:41.876 --> 0:16:43.356 something called step Up and it's the last day of 0:16:43.356 --> 0:16:45.316 school and the kids sing a song and all the parents, 0:16:45.396 --> 0:16:48.476 if the whole school has to come And I walked 0:16:48.476 --> 0:16:51.236 in there and I almost started crying because I just 0:16:51.396 --> 0:16:53.796 I was like, I don't feel like doing this right now. 0:16:54.276 --> 0:16:56.476 It was like whatever was going on, I was already 0:16:56.476 --> 0:16:59.276 super stressed out. Everybody had a mask, and I got 0:16:59.276 --> 0:17:01.876 confused about one of the moms and I introduced her 0:17:01.876 --> 0:17:09.636 to our husband as someone else. Lock. 0:17:09.796 --> 0:17:12.836 Miss, that's so awkward. 0:17:13.276 --> 0:17:15.916 I know, it's funny. 0:17:17.836 --> 0:17:20.356 Yeah, those situations are so hard, but it's so interesting 0:17:20.356 --> 0:17:22.516 that you could be comfortable on stage. And I was 0:17:22.556 --> 0:17:25.596 thinking about that watching your tiny Desk because you did 0:17:25.636 --> 0:17:28.596 so much talking in it, and I was nervous for you, 0:17:29.196 --> 0:17:31.236 like I was projecting my own stuff on you, and 0:17:31.236 --> 0:17:33.596 I'm like, oh my gosh, oh what is she gonna say? 0:17:34.556 --> 0:17:36.836 And you were so good, and you were so collected, 0:17:37.236 --> 0:17:40.116 and you were eloquent, and you like were on top 0:17:40.156 --> 0:17:41.156 of what you were saying. 0:17:41.676 --> 0:17:44.836 Well, it was really hard that day because I was 0:17:44.916 --> 0:17:48.236 told before I got there that there was a possibility 0:17:48.556 --> 0:17:51.036 that you could amplify your voice a little bit. 0:17:51.956 --> 0:17:54.516 I was misinformed, and so when I. 0:17:54.476 --> 0:17:57.276 Got there, I was like, oh, I'll do a kind 0:17:57.276 --> 0:18:02.516 of punky set because it's all unamplified, like there's no effects, 0:18:02.516 --> 0:18:03.956 and I thought it was like as raw as it 0:18:03.996 --> 0:18:07.116 could be. But it's really hard to hear yourself over 0:18:07.516 --> 0:18:10.676 loud guitars and you know, and also in my songs, 0:18:10.676 --> 0:18:13.916 I switch voices so much. That's what makes it really 0:18:13.956 --> 0:18:15.796 hard when you're going from a softwaice to a loud 0:18:15.836 --> 0:18:17.916 voice and then right back to a soft voice, because 0:18:18.476 --> 0:18:21.996 if your sound isn't good enough, if you're yelling over 0:18:22.076 --> 0:18:24.036 some instruments and then try to go back to the softways, 0:18:24.076 --> 0:18:28.356 your softwaice doesn't come back nicely. It's like you scream 0:18:28.436 --> 0:18:30.796 and you've kind of shot out your voice, you know, 0:18:30.956 --> 0:18:33.276 and then you can't hit the soft which happened to 0:18:33.316 --> 0:18:35.196 me on that performance quite. 0:18:35.036 --> 0:18:35.756 A few times. 0:18:36.396 --> 0:18:39.076 And I just had it like no, thank God, because 0:18:39.076 --> 0:18:40.436 I was just going with it and I was just 0:18:40.476 --> 0:18:44.236 doing silly stuff or just like you know, to try 0:18:44.276 --> 0:18:46.876 to just roll with it. But it was hard, and 0:18:47.396 --> 0:18:50.116 what happens is then when you go to speak after 0:18:50.236 --> 0:18:53.396 yelling over stuff, your voice is not your normal voice. 0:18:53.436 --> 0:18:55.916 So I listened to that and when I heard it, 0:18:55.956 --> 0:18:58.076 I was like, oh, my talking voice is compromise, Like 0:18:58.156 --> 0:19:01.676 it was this weird soft voice that's not my normal voice. 0:19:01.796 --> 0:19:04.916 But it was because to be honest, in the I 0:19:04.996 --> 0:19:06.716 was going to do a different song that was too 0:19:06.756 --> 0:19:10.676