Speaker 1: Pushkin. Santy Gold is an artist who exists at the
Speaker 1: cross section of punk, dub, new wave, and indie pop.
Speaker 1: Long frustrated with attempts to classify her music, she's always
Speaker 1: been a proud outlier among the restrictive categories used to
Speaker 1: divide music. Sony Gold's anti establishment bent was in part
Speaker 1: a reaction to working as an A and R for
Speaker 1: Epic Records Black music Department. Frustrated with what they categorized
Speaker 1: as urban music in the early yachts, she left her job,
Speaker 1: went home to Philly and started a punk band called Stifft.
Speaker 1: After honing her skills for a few years as the
Speaker 1: lead singer, she released her debut solo album, Santy Gold
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. The album's lead singles, creator
Speaker 1: and ls artists were a revelation when they came out,
Speaker 1: and led to Sante Gold headlining tours around the world
Speaker 1: and opening shows for Byork, Cold, Blay jay Z and
Speaker 1: The Beastie Boys. Now with three more albums to her credit,
Speaker 1: including last year's Soulstring Spirituals, Santy Gold is celebrating the
Speaker 1: fifteenth anniversary of her debut release. She's also expanded her
Speaker 1: artistic endeavors to include a podcast called Noble Champions, where
Speaker 1: she mindes the creative life with friends like Olivia Wilde, Questlove,
Speaker 1: and Yasin Bay. On today's episode of Broken Record, Lea
Speaker 1: Rose talks to Santy Gold about the unique path she
Speaker 1: took to build her solo career. She also shares why
Speaker 1: she decided to cancel her tour last year with a
Speaker 1: heartfelt public letter that shared insight into the financial and
Speaker 1: emotional toll of touring post pandemic. Santy Gold also recalls
Speaker 1: the moment she discovered she was in a list of
Speaker 1: influential black female artists called out by Beyonce on her
Speaker 1: break My Soul remix. This is Broken Record notes in
Speaker 1: the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchell. Here's Lea Rose with
Speaker 1: Santy Gold.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for doing this. I'm really looking
Speaker 2: forward to it. I know we've been trying to get
Speaker 2: it together for a while now. Yeah, since I've been
Speaker 2: researching this, since I've been in your world, you feel
Speaker 2: so strong and so uncompromising in your work. Has it
Speaker 2: always felt like that for you? Like, have you always
Speaker 2: just been really clear on what you wanted to make?
Speaker 3: I mean, as a process of years of being a
Speaker 3: kid and like writing in my journal and you know,
Speaker 3: trying to play some instruments and then trying to make
Speaker 3: some beats, and so it wasn't like I know exactly
Speaker 3: what I want to do. In fact, I've read through
Speaker 3: my journals whenever I get a chance. I recently, because
Speaker 3: I'm actually working on a books. I actually just read
Speaker 3: through this whole journal last week. But there's this one
Speaker 3: entry from when I was about maybe like fifteen to seventeen.
Speaker 4: I don't know that.
Speaker 3: I was like, I know there's music in me, but
Speaker 3: I think the kind of music doesn't exist yet.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: You know I wrote that as a teenager.
Speaker 3: Because I just I knew that, like, I liked so
Speaker 3: many different kinds of music, but nothing felt like it
Speaker 3: could hold the full spectrum of what I wanted to
Speaker 3: make or hear.
Speaker 4: Even so I would just jump around.
Speaker 3: I would listen to like rock, and then I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 3: this doesn't have enough bass. And then I listened to
Speaker 3: hip hop and I'm like, this is this is just
Speaker 3: not crazy enough, you know what I mean? And so
Speaker 3: I would just go back and forth. And even when
Speaker 3: I started to make music, which was kind of my mistake,
Speaker 3: I only started to make music because I couldn't find
Speaker 3: what I wanted to listen to. And first I tried
Speaker 3: writing for other people, but then they didn't do it
Speaker 3: exactly like I wanted it to sound. So it was
Speaker 3: just really the art led me to be the performer
Speaker 3: because I just wanted to I wanted to make exactly
Speaker 3: what I wanted to hear. So I wrote a record
Speaker 3: for an artist called Reese, and it was like mixing
Speaker 3: rock and had more soul than I would have.
Speaker 4: Put in because it was collaborative.
Speaker 3: And then I was like, I want to make a
Speaker 3: punk rock record, and then I did that for a bit,
Speaker 3: but then that was limiting as well, and so then
Speaker 3: it wasn't until Santy Gold where I was just like,
Speaker 3: I'm going to make whatever I want, and anything I
Speaker 3: want to go in it is going to go in it.
Speaker 3: And no one will probably want to hear this music,
Speaker 3: but I'm going to make it anyway. And so that
Speaker 3: was the first time that I really just put it
Speaker 3: all down. And I would say the process of coming
Speaker 3: to that, becoming that person who was clear in that
Speaker 3: vision started as a teenager, and you know, I went
Speaker 3: to like I would change my scene and my look,
Speaker 3: like all the time, I was like a Philly fly
Speaker 3: girl with gold earrings and ace metro. And then I
Speaker 3: was like, you know, in a classic rock and vintage
Speaker 3: T shirts. And then I was like going out to
Speaker 3: house music. You know.
Speaker 4: I was just literally like taking it all in.
Speaker 3: And it was until I went to Quaker School when
Speaker 3: I was about fifteen that I started to understand that
Speaker 3: I could like hold space for all these things.
Speaker 2: What was it about the Quaker school that it helps
Speaker 2: you realize that.
Speaker 3: I think it's several things. I think they gave me
Speaker 3: a lot of autonomy to be an artist at that school,
Speaker 3: Like it was like the whole creed was there's that
Speaker 3: of God and everyone, and so you'd sit in meeting
Speaker 3: for worship once a week. That was the only religious
Speaker 3: aspect was sitting in meeting for worship once a week
Speaker 3: for forty five.
Speaker 4: Minutes, and it was in silence.
Speaker 3: You sit in silence unless you were moved to stand
Speaker 3: up and say something. And the idea was anything that
Speaker 3: you wanted to stand up and say. It could be
Speaker 3: anything like I had a dream last night and blah blah,
Speaker 3: or you know, it could be anything, but if you
Speaker 3: felt like you wanted to stand up and say it.
Speaker 3: The idea was that it was sort of worth reflecting
Speaker 3: upon by the whole community. It was valid, like and
Speaker 3: you know, you call your teachers by the first name,
Speaker 3: so it was like, oh, my voice is important, you know.
Speaker 3: And then they had like painting studio. I was a
Speaker 3: painting sort of major by my senior year. Whatever that meant, like,
Speaker 3: I took senior studio, so you would get to go
Speaker 3: and paint for like three hours, build whatever size canvas,
Speaker 3: and do whatever you want. And then I got like,
Speaker 3: I won the art Award, and I like, you know,
Speaker 3: I knew by that point, I had been to this
Speaker 3: all girls private school for eight years, and I went
Speaker 3: to this public school which was a magnet school, which
Speaker 3: had all kids from Uliver City. And then I went
Speaker 3: to this school, and so I knew a lot of people.
Speaker 3: I knew a lot of people in the city. I
Speaker 3: knew all the parties happening, and people were like valuing
Speaker 3: that about me, that I that I knew about all
Speaker 3: these different scenes. So I think I started to be like, oh,
Speaker 3: it's actually cool to sit in the middle of all
Speaker 3: these different scenes and not have to choose. And I
Speaker 3: never felt like I met anybody else who was doing
Speaker 3: that until I was about thirty one. Honestly, when I
Speaker 3: started when I met like spank Rock, I think when
Speaker 3: I met Naim, I was like, this is the first
Speaker 3: person that actually mirrors me in this way.
Speaker 2: Do you remember like conversations you had that helped you
Speaker 2: realize that?
Speaker 4: No, I don't even think it was a conversational type
Speaker 4: of thing.
Speaker 3: It was just like, you know, energetically, I am a
Speaker 3: very intuitive person and I feel people, you know, and
Speaker 3: it was like, clearly, I mean with the music he
Speaker 3: was doing is amazing conversation that he has showed so
Speaker 3: much more depth and perspective.
Speaker 4: Just going over his producer Triple Exchange.
Speaker 3: His house and listening to records, I mean, I just
Speaker 3: knew what their influences were and I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is like me. And then Naim became such a
Speaker 3: support and inspiration for me. So just conversationally as an artist,
Speaker 3: it was support as an artist who could actually get
Speaker 3: their head.
Speaker 4: Around the whole thing that I was doing.
Speaker 3: You know. Just to have community in that way was
Speaker 3: a huge part of me being able to have confidence
Speaker 3: and strength, because everybody needs community, and I think as
Speaker 3: an artist trying to do something that's kind of going
Speaker 3: against the grain. It can be very isolating and lonely,
Speaker 3: and then those times you don't really feel as confident.
Speaker 3: And so when you have the community to be like,
Speaker 3: you're fucking killing it, you know, like even if you're not,
Speaker 3: even if nobody else knows that you're killing it, to
Speaker 3: have somebody that's like you're killing it, it just changes.
Speaker 2: Everything, It really does. But it's funny because some people
Speaker 2: are motivated by the opposite. Like you think of somebody
Speaker 2: like a Kanye who's like motivated to prove everybody wrong.
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm that too. I've always been that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have that in my little kid journals too,
Speaker 3: Like if some guy like didn't work out.
Speaker 4: I'd like, I'll show him. I'm gonna make everybody want me.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I definitely have that too.
Speaker 3: It's a competitiveness, but it's more like an internal competitiveness,
Speaker 3: Like but that comes from knowing though, it's not really
Speaker 3: from wanting to prove everybody wrong. It's wanting to show
Speaker 3: everybody what you know that you already are.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: You have to have confidence to feel that way, because
Speaker 3: you're like, they don't fucking see it. They don't get
Speaker 3: it like nobody sees it. I have to make it.
Speaker 4: Visible and undeniable, you know.
Speaker 3: So that's really a it's really a drive that's like,
Speaker 3: there's just this knowing, you know. That's that's what my
Speaker 3: whole thing is to answer your first question. Is just
Speaker 3: a knowing that you have about who you are and
Speaker 3: about what you can create. Really, that I think is
Speaker 3: what's special about a lot of artists. It's just that
Speaker 3: intrinsic knowing about their own power and magic. You know.
Speaker 2: Has there ever been a point in time where you
Speaker 2: felt like you've lost access to that part of yourself
Speaker 2: where you can create from.
Speaker 4: Yeah, lots of times.
Speaker 3: I remember after the first record when I had to
Speaker 3: turn around and do a second record, and of course
Speaker 3: on the second record, everything's different from the first record.
Speaker 3: The team isn't the same, and like the pressure is
Speaker 3: very different, and I remember feeling really overwhelmed, and I had.
Speaker 4: Some people there in my corner then too.
Speaker 3: I remember Pharrell being somebody that I talked to a
Speaker 3: lot during that period, and he was awesome. He was
Speaker 3: really helpful and encouraging a bunch of other friends as well.
Speaker 3: I remember even when before my first Sonte Gold record,
Speaker 3: my father had passed away, and it was just a
Speaker 3: whole traumatic era of life. And I stopped writing altogether
Speaker 3: because everything I wrote was so dark, even the poetry,
Speaker 3: it was so dark. And I was like, I'm just
Speaker 3: going to put this down for a second until it
Speaker 3: feels a little bit different, you know. And it's not
Speaker 3: that it's not I mean, some people need that need
Speaker 3: that to come out that way, but I was like,
Speaker 3: this is making me feel worse, you know.
Speaker 4: So I just stepped away.
Speaker 3: And then I moved to New York and moved back
Speaker 3: to New York and started going out, and it came
Speaker 3: out very differently when I came. When I got to
Speaker 3: New York, it was like I was about it. I
Speaker 3: was just about the art and like all these scenesters
Speaker 3: was around, and that's when I wrote LS Artists.
Speaker 4: I was like, get out of my face. This is
Speaker 4: what I'm here to do, you know.
Speaker 3: And it came out very different, and it was it
Speaker 3: was empowered at that by that point, because sometimes I
Speaker 3: really believe that I think Joni Mitchell said this in
Speaker 3: an interview one time, that you just really need to
Speaker 3: allow your creativity. For me, everybody's not the same, but
Speaker 3: for me, I need to have fallo periods. I need
Speaker 3: to have time where like I make music and then
Speaker 3: I put the music thing away and I do something
Speaker 3: else creative and let let that sort of the nutrients
Speaker 3: come back, you know, because it's all spent after you
Speaker 3: do the record, and you got to wait for life
Speaker 3: to happen and perspectives to change and have something new
Speaker 3: to want to say. And those are foul periods. And
Speaker 3: I'm actually I don't really consider myself like a musician
Speaker 3: as much as I just consider myself an artist, like
Speaker 3: I have so many different ways that I can create
Speaker 3: and that I enjoy creating, and I really don't like
Speaker 3: making music all the time, which is why I think
Speaker 3: it takes me a long time to put out records
Speaker 3: because I actually need to do other things.
Speaker 4: And the foul periods are crucial.
Speaker 2: But you never get worried like, oh it's never going
Speaker 2: to come back.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, everybody does.
Speaker 3: But see what happens is over time is just like
Speaker 3: you learn that all feelings are welcome, and you thank
Speaker 3: your feelings and you say thank you for showing me
Speaker 3: you know that I feel this way about this or
Speaker 3: that I need to make this change. And with that
Speaker 3: you just kind of recognize you don't. You don't hold
Speaker 3: on to cling to the feeling and be like is
Speaker 3: this ever gonna go away? You just let it flow, right,
Speaker 3: you know. And it's the same thing with moments of
Speaker 3: feeling uncreative or blocked. You just say, Okay, thank you
Speaker 3: for letting me know I need to do something else
Speaker 3: or go do something inspiring, and you don't cling to
Speaker 3: it like this is never gonna go You just let
Speaker 3: it flow and it goes away.
Speaker 4: You don't panic.
Speaker 3: And I think in the beginning you panic, but then
Speaker 3: as as you as you hit that spot over and
Speaker 3: over and over the years and you're like, okay, like
Speaker 3: the album's gonna go cook.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that that like sounds like something that
Speaker 2: comes with age too. It's like you've been through it
Speaker 2: enough that you know it can be like a cycle.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So your debut album came out fifteen years ago this year.
Speaker 4: And that's crazy to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, like, speaking of looking back at your old diaries,
Speaker 2: do you ever listen to the album?
Speaker 3: Not often, but I have maybe every like five years once.
Speaker 2: What's your impression of it now? Fifteen years God's good record.
Speaker 3: I honestly, it's for me, I'm one of those people
Speaker 3: like I don't have any tattoos, like for example, right,
Speaker 3: because I'm the type of person if I get something
Speaker 3: years later, I will be so mad and hated and
Speaker 3: I'll be like, I can't believe I got this. I
Speaker 3: can't believe I dressed like that. I can't believe I
Speaker 3: had that haircut. I can't believe you know, I can't
Speaker 3: believe I wore that makeup. I look crazy like I'm
Speaker 3: that person. So in music, oh my god, like please,
Speaker 3: I can't listen. I cringe and I just get I'll
Speaker 3: like start sweating listening to something that I did. But
Speaker 3: I will say that record, I never feel like that
Speaker 3: way about And that's really telling, Like I really like
Speaker 3: that record.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about L. E. S Rtist
Speaker 2: Uh huh. You wrote that after moving to New York
Speaker 2: from Philly, and was that sort of like a response
Speaker 2: to the scene that was already happening in New York.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was more a response to me being a
Speaker 3: complete introvert and going out but not being one hundred
Speaker 3: percent ready to feel that energy. And it was very
Speaker 3: see me and like, yes, kind of in the worst
Speaker 3: way that I don't like where everyone's like, you know,
Speaker 3: I literally say everything I thought in the song.
Speaker 4: So it was everybody just looking at you and trying.
Speaker 3: To get you to look at them and trying to,
Speaker 3: you know, figure you out if they needed to know
Speaker 3: you or not, you know what I mean. It was
Speaker 3: just it was too much for me because I was
Speaker 3: literally just coming out of like man, I was so
Speaker 3: I was so raw that in that moment, I just
Speaker 3: my dad had just died and it was like crazy
Speaker 3: flip of my whole world, you know, and I was
Speaker 3: just barely ready to even be doing anything and then
Speaker 3: to step right back into Lower East Side at that time.
Speaker 4: It was overwhelming. And that's what I was writing about.
Speaker 3: Just being really overwhelmed, but being also very much about
Speaker 3: stepping into that power that we discussed, and that clarity
Speaker 3: and that like that determination to like really make something important,
Speaker 3: but also contending with the noise and the kind of
Speaker 3: bullshit and which is part of the music world and
Speaker 3: you know, social world, music world, the world.
Speaker 4: And I still don't like all that stuff very much.
Speaker 3: And I'm still a total interpret I get like, I
Speaker 3: have total social anxiety.
Speaker 4: But you would never know unless I told.
Speaker 2: You, you know, it's yeah, no, it doesn't seem like it,
Speaker 2: and it's weird.
Speaker 4: It comes in times like I have no anxiety about being.
Speaker 2: On stage that I don't understand.
Speaker 4: Well because it's fun.
Speaker 3: It's like I mean, sometimes it's not fun at all,
Speaker 3: like when I'm having sound problems, which is like fifty
Speaker 3: percent of the time, it's actually a nightmare. Or there's
Speaker 3: also like all kinds of crises that happen as a
Speaker 3: touring artist.
Speaker 4: It's not fun.
Speaker 3: But actually when things are going well and I just
Speaker 3: get to sing and be fun on stage, that's fun.
Speaker 3: And I don't have problems like speaking to crowds or
Speaker 3: anything like that. It's more like little stuff like when
Speaker 3: I'm required to give energy in moments.
Speaker 4: That I don't want to give energy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, small talk I hate, or like meeting people that
Speaker 3: I don't really feel like meeting people like stuff like
Speaker 3: that causes me.
Speaker 4: So it's really the energy.
Speaker 3: I don't have enough energy to just give give give
Speaker 3: all the time, So it actually causes me anxiety to
Speaker 3: have to show up and give energy when I don't
Speaker 3: want to.
Speaker 2: Because it's training. How does that work when you're meeting
Speaker 2: like parents of your kids, friends or school situations.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's when I have it. It's a lot of that.
Speaker 3: I remember last year around this time, it was like
Speaker 3: the last day of school and my kids school has
Speaker 3: something called step Up and it's the last day of
Speaker 3: school and the kids sing a song and all the parents,
Speaker 3: if the whole school has to come And I walked
Speaker 3: in there and I almost started crying because I just
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't feel like doing this right now.
Speaker 3: It was like whatever was going on, I was already
Speaker 3: super stressed out. Everybody had a mask, and I got
Speaker 3: confused about one of the moms and I introduced her
Speaker 3: to our husband as someone else. Lock.
Speaker 2: Miss, that's so awkward.
Speaker 4: I know, it's funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those situations are so hard, but it's so interesting
Speaker 2: that you could be comfortable on stage. And I was
Speaker 2: thinking about that watching your tiny Desk because you did
Speaker 2: so much talking in it, and I was nervous for you,
Speaker 2: like I was projecting my own stuff on you, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my gosh, oh what is she gonna say?
Speaker 2: And you were so good, and you were so collected,
Speaker 2: and you were eloquent, and you like were on top
Speaker 2: of what you were saying.
Speaker 3: Well, it was really hard that day because I was
Speaker 3: told before I got there that there was a possibility
Speaker 3: that you could amplify your voice a little bit.
Speaker 4: I was misinformed, and so when I.
Speaker 3: Got there, I was like, oh, I'll do a kind
Speaker 3: of punky set because it's all unamplified, like there's no effects,
Speaker 3: and I thought it was like as raw as it
Speaker 3: could be. But it's really hard to hear yourself over
Speaker 3: loud guitars and you know, and also in my songs,
Speaker 3: I switch voices so much. That's what makes it really
Speaker 3: hard when you're going from a softwaice to a loud
Speaker 3: voice and then right back to a soft voice, because
Speaker 3: if your sound isn't good enough, if you're yelling over
Speaker 3: some instruments and then try to go back to the softways,
Speaker 3: your softwaice doesn't come back nicely. It's like you scream
Speaker 3: and you've kind of shot out your voice, you know,
Speaker 3: and then you can't hit the soft which happened to
Speaker 3: me on that performance quite.
Speaker 4: A few times.
Speaker 3: And I just had it like no, thank God, because
Speaker 3: I was just going with it and I was just
Speaker 3: doing silly stuff or just like you know, to try
Speaker 3: to just roll with it. But it was hard, and
Speaker 3: what happens is then when you go to speak after
Speaker 3: yelling over stuff, your voice is not your normal voice.
Speaker 3: So I listened to that and when I heard it,
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, my talking voice is compromise, Like
Speaker 3: it was this weird soft voice that's not my normal voice.
Speaker 3: But it was because to be honest, in the I
Speaker 3: was going to do a different song that was too
Speaker 3: hard to do unamplified. So in the rehearsal, I did
Speaker 3: it and shout out my voice before I even started.
Speaker 3: So I did that whole thing with a voice that
Speaker 3: was already kind of messed up.
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break and then come back
Speaker 1: with more from Lea Rose and Santy Gold. We're back
Speaker 1: with more from Lea Rose and Santy Gold.
Speaker 2: When did you start actually messing around with music? Like
Speaker 2: how did that evolve for you? Did you go from
Speaker 2: being a fan to try to like tinkering with instruments.
Speaker 2: Did you start writing first?
Speaker 3: I think when I was like nine, I was watching
Speaker 3: break In one day and they were like making a
Speaker 3: community center performance and it was like I was like,
Speaker 3: I want to write a song. And I wrote a
Speaker 3: song called City Streets. I sang it on another podcast
Speaker 3: with Tariq with Black Thought. We both sang out like
Speaker 3: early songs, like one verse, not even it was like
Speaker 3: a chorus. But I was like, I want to I
Speaker 3: want to write a song, you know. And then shortly
Speaker 3: after that, I wanted to write raps. I was really
Speaker 3: in a rap. I was listening to really, really all
Speaker 3: kinds of rap. I remember being really in a two
Speaker 3: live crew when I was eleven and writing down all
Speaker 3: the lyrics and then telling everybody in the neighborhood.
Speaker 2: I used to write down lyrics too. I think that's
Speaker 2: a thing.
Speaker 3: Set you were winding set. I remember ello cool Ja,
Speaker 3: I Need Love. I had to do all the words.
Speaker 3: I wrote down, every single word.
Speaker 2: So sensual.
Speaker 4: So I mean, I don't know why I like that
Speaker 4: song so much.
Speaker 3: But in the process of writing down lyrics, like transcribing lyrics,
Speaker 3: and I guess I was just like kind of in
Speaker 3: a way, you're studying when you're doing that, right. And
Speaker 3: then by the time I was like twelve or thirteen,
Speaker 3: I was just writing raps and I wanted to be like,
Speaker 3: you know, Salt and Peppa or Queen the Tea for somebody.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to actually be a professional. I just
Speaker 3: wanted to be able to. I was like what we
Speaker 3: called the tomboy back then, Like there was not a
Speaker 3: lot of.
Speaker 4: Girls who were that into that.
Speaker 3: And I like being able to hang hang with the
Speaker 3: boys and be able to surprise everybody by how I could.
Speaker 4: Do it, you know.
Speaker 3: So I totally try to freestyle and stuff. I was
Speaker 3: never very good at freestyle, but I was better than
Speaker 3: some of the guys that would do it. So.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Then by the time I was about fifteen, well, I
Speaker 3: started taking guitar lessons first, and I would practice like
Speaker 3: Led Zeppelin and Jimmy Hendrix and stuff.
Speaker 4: I would never practice, though. I would practice a little.
Speaker 3: Bit when I was like maybe fourteen or fifteen, but
Speaker 3: I never I cannot play any instruments right now. I'm
Speaker 3: so bad at instruments, but I just will never practice.
Speaker 3: I'm not a practicer of instruments. Yeah, I'm not a
Speaker 3: practicer of anything really. Well that's not true. But I
Speaker 3: don't practice. I just do it often, you see what
Speaker 3: I'm saying. So it's not like I'm going to sit
Speaker 3: and practice. I just schedule it so that I have
Speaker 3: to do it often.
Speaker 2: Just think about it differently.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But so I played a little electric guitar. I
Speaker 3: took that for like maybe four years total. I took
Speaker 3: it in college a little while. I played hand drums.
Speaker 3: In college, I studied traditional Ghanaian drumming and hayesh and
Speaker 3: a little Cuban and I actually gave hand drumming lessons
Speaker 3: in college. Wow, And that definitely informed my sense of
Speaker 3: like rhythm and syncopation and stuff like that.
Speaker 4: And then as I.
Speaker 3: Got older, I got into I chose bass over guitar.
Speaker 3: And now not to say that I can really play bass,
Speaker 3: but bass is just easier for me. And I write
Speaker 3: on instruments, so that's the thing I can pick up,
Speaker 3: you know. Obviously a keyboard. I can write on guitar,
Speaker 3: I can write on bass, and I can write drum parts.
Speaker 3: I can write horn parts, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I could just I write in my head. I'll wake
Speaker 3: up with a whole bassline that I can't play and
Speaker 3: be like, I'll just sing it and be like, play this,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: And how do you do? It's original and it's not
Speaker 2: something that's like stored in your subconscious.
Speaker 4: Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I have to ask a whole
Speaker 4: lot of people, have you heard this before?
Speaker 3: I remember when I did the song with the Beastie
Speaker 3: Boys Don't Play No Game, I swore that was an original.
Speaker 3: I was like, nobody's heard this before, nobody's heard and
Speaker 3: everyone's like no. But sometimes it's just so weird the
Speaker 3: place that things come from. For me, honestly, a lot
Speaker 3: of things come in between being awaken the sleep.
Speaker 4: That's where a lot of my ideas come.
Speaker 3: I get a lot of visions, I've had prophetic dreams,
Speaker 3: but a lot of my creative stuff comes during between
Speaker 3: sleep and waking.
Speaker 2: So do you keep a journal by like on your
Speaker 2: bedside table.
Speaker 4: I don't really keep a journal anymore.
Speaker 3: It was like for about ten or fifteen years, like
Speaker 3: probably from about fifteen to twenty five that I really
Speaker 3: kept a journal.
Speaker 4: And then I.
Speaker 3: Think when my life got really busy and I was
Speaker 3: doing a lot of writing for a career, I stopped
Speaker 3: and I missed it. But there's no way now I
Speaker 3: could keep a journal.
Speaker 4: But what I do.
Speaker 3: I mean, I have so much creative writing in my
Speaker 3: life now that I think that if you listen to
Speaker 3: any of my albums, they are a journal of exactly
Speaker 3: what I was going through. And then in my lyric
Speaker 3: books you'll find an occasional poem or occasional journal or
Speaker 3: when I was touring. Actually, I would try to keep
Speaker 3: a journal sometimes, Like I remember one time flying from
Speaker 3: Australia back to the States and there being no television
Speaker 3: on the airplane. I have no idea why, but I
Speaker 3: journaled for like twelve hours. I wrote down my entire trip,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like, so I'll do it
Speaker 3: in odd moments, but I don't. But if there's something
Speaker 3: that hits and I know I need to write it down,
Speaker 3: like I will, I will find a book and write
Speaker 3: it down.
Speaker 2: M Yeah, it sounds like it's really important. It's like
Speaker 2: a common thread throughout your life.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is. It is.
Speaker 3: And also just going back and reading some of my
Speaker 3: journals from I was little, it just it's interesting on
Speaker 3: how it helps form the way that I think about things,
Speaker 3: or the way that I talk about things.
Speaker 4: Or the way I kind of mull over ideas and I'm.
Speaker 3: So detailed and like it's great that I could talk
Speaker 3: to myself in that way, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So when you were starting to get into music and starting,
Speaker 2: you know, like taking your guitar lessons, were your parents
Speaker 2: supportive of that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they didn't care much about my guitar lessons and
Speaker 3: actually they helped me. Like I got it in SP
Speaker 3: twelve hundred when I was about fifteen, and they let
Speaker 3: me get that, and they my dad was super into music,
Speaker 3: like he's the one who got me into music. He
Speaker 3: had the best music collection and encouraged us to collect
Speaker 3: music very early. My sister had an amazing record collection
Speaker 3: by the time she was fourteen, which was great because
Speaker 3: it's my dad had like every black music ever made
Speaker 3: and from like whether it's Jamaican, African American, like he
Speaker 3: had everything. But then my sister took it further and
Speaker 3: she had like rock and punk and fun Boy three
Speaker 3: and Suzanne Vega.
Speaker 4: And like, you know, just like weird stuff that my.
Speaker 3: Dad never would have listened to, the Smiths and you know,
Speaker 3: stuff like that. So I got all this amazing music
Speaker 3: education before I was even eleven years old.
Speaker 2: And then my met your older sister.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's like three years older than me, and she
Speaker 3: was going to Bad Brain shows when I was twelve
Speaker 3: and coming back.
Speaker 4: Dripping, and I was like, who are they? You know?
Speaker 4: And what you know? What is this?
Speaker 3: And I listen and so I just they really taught
Speaker 3: me about music, and my dad took us to see shows,
Speaker 3: like he took me to see James Brown.
Speaker 4: I was too young.
Speaker 3: I don't even remember, but I just I know the
Speaker 3: story that I said Dad was wrong with his leg
Speaker 3: and he said, oh he got sould.
Speaker 4: I know that, Like that's the story. That's the only
Speaker 4: the two line story.
Speaker 3: I went to see Fela Kuti with him when I
Speaker 3: was seven. He took me see Nina Simone Wow. And
Speaker 3: so that exposure. And he used to take us to
Speaker 3: record stores every Saturday and we could choose the record.
Speaker 3: He taught me to buy music and to study music
Speaker 3: kind of, you know, and so he was always.
Speaker 4: Supportive until well. And also he was good.
Speaker 3: Friends with Kenny Gamble from Gamble and Huck from Philly Sound.
Speaker 3: And so I interned with Kenny when I was sixteen,
Speaker 3: and you know, got to know Kenny. And then my
Speaker 3: dad's like, my dad would have never encouraged me to
Speaker 3: be a singer, because I remember one time I was
Speaker 3: like dad and I never wanted to be singing. I
Speaker 3: had a solo when I was fifteen. It was a disaster.
Speaker 3: It was a disaster to me. My mom recently told
Speaker 3: me that it wasn't a disaster like last week. She
Speaker 3: told me it wasn't a disaster. But after the show,
Speaker 3: they said, how did you get the solo? That's all
Speaker 3: they said to me.
Speaker 2: Like a school show, like a like a talent show
Speaker 2: type thing.
Speaker 3: No, it was something I did not sign up for.
Speaker 3: I was in the chorus class and he picked me
Speaker 3: for the solo and I was so upset about it
Speaker 3: because I didn't want the solo and I was too
Speaker 3: nervous to sing in front of people and I was
Speaker 3: like shaking and hiding behind the page, and so it
Speaker 3: was traumatic and I was like, I never ever want
Speaker 3: to sing in front of people again.
Speaker 4: And then and then.
Speaker 3: Because I was so nervous, the feedback was like oh
Speaker 3: that poor girl, or like or like how did you
Speaker 3: get the solo? And I was like, fuck, I'm never
Speaker 3: singing again. So that's what I was carrying with me
Speaker 3: into my music career. And I was like, I think
Speaker 3: I want to own a record company. And so I
Speaker 3: started interning at Sony and then my dad was like, hey,
Speaker 3: why don't you be a songwriter like Kenny?
Speaker 4: And I was like yeah, maybe, and so.
Speaker 3: I started working at Epic Records. Actually after my junior
Speaker 3: year in college, but I finished early and graduated early,
Speaker 3: and I was working at EPIC and I signed Reese
Speaker 3: to a demo deal. So I was like an an
Speaker 3: R assistant and I signed her to a demo deal,
Speaker 3: and I was trying to.
Speaker 2: Was like a big deal for like an an R assistant.
Speaker 4: It was, it was.
Speaker 3: And I was trying to find producers to make music
Speaker 3: that I wanted to be totally different than anything out there,
Speaker 3: and I couldn't really find the right team.
Speaker 4: So I started writing the songs myself and that's what happened.
Speaker 3: And the head of the department, who I was really
Speaker 3: close with, he was just like, it's kind of a
Speaker 3: red flag that you're writing songs yourself, and I was like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but then he heard him and he's like, actually,
Speaker 4: they're good.
Speaker 3: Does she want to be in groove theory, Like totally
Speaker 3: didn't really get that I was trying to do something
Speaker 3: completely different.
Speaker 4: I didn't want her to be in some like R
Speaker 4: and B group, and so we left.
Speaker 3: I left there by that time, I didn't want to
Speaker 3: work there because everything coming I was in the black
Speaker 3: music department.
Speaker 4: Black music is.
Speaker 3: A very specific set of you know, traits, and none
Speaker 3: of which I was into, and I mean I was into,
Speaker 3: but I want to do something that pushed and that
Speaker 3: didn't fit, and so I was like, let's leave here.
Speaker 3: And I ended up executive producing and writing that record
Speaker 3: and signing her to MCA.
Speaker 4: So those were the first songs.
Speaker 2: That I wrote. I feel like, if that's all you
Speaker 2: did in your career, that would be a big deal.
Speaker 3: It was a big deal, and it was early too.
Speaker 3: I was like, you know, twenty one or something like that.
Speaker 3: But when I started that and it was a crash
Speaker 3: course and a lot of things like dealing with the
Speaker 3: music industry and oh yeah, all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2: So at that point, you still didn't know you wanted
Speaker 2: to be an artist.
Speaker 3: No, I didn't. I didn't want to be an artist.
Speaker 3: I knew I didn't want to be an artist. When
Speaker 3: I had to show her how to sing a harmony
Speaker 3: or something, I would sing it so bad. And Doc McKinney,
Speaker 3: who he actually produced like The Weekend and stuff, he
Speaker 3: was the he produces Theough back then, which is how
Speaker 3: I found him, and then he ended up doing The
Speaker 3: Weekend now.
Speaker 4: But he used to be like, Sadi, can you just
Speaker 4: sing it for real?
Speaker 3: Because like he I mean everybody had kind of already
Speaker 3: glimpsed that I could actually carry a tune and that
Speaker 3: I was doing it so bad for no reason. And
Speaker 3: he'd be like, can you just can you just sing
Speaker 3: it like the way that it goes, so she can
Speaker 3: as I would.
Speaker 4: And so then after that I was like, well, I
Speaker 4: really didn't. It didn't come out how it was in
Speaker 4: my head.
Speaker 3: So I was like, I'm gonna go start this punk
Speaker 3: band and I'm this sing but I'm never going to
Speaker 3: perform ever.
Speaker 4: That was. That was the next stage.
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't want to stand in people,
Speaker 3: in front of people and sing.
Speaker 2: How did you make that change? Because now you said
Speaker 2: you have no reservations about standing up in front of
Speaker 2: a crowd and performing.
Speaker 3: Well, I did my first show in Philly and I
Speaker 3: only invited my friends, so it was a loving environment.
Speaker 3: I had a reverb pedal that I put my microphone
Speaker 3: through and I was cranking it, cranking it so you
Speaker 3: couldn't really hear what I was doing. I put all
Speaker 3: these effects on it and I was so goofy and
Speaker 3: like we videotaped it and it was like really fun,
Speaker 3: really fun, And so because it was so much fun,
Speaker 3: I was like, I would do this again, So I
Speaker 3: started this night called Clap. Now I had moved to Philly.
Speaker 3: When I wrote the Rece record, I was in New
Speaker 3: York and there was a lot of attention around that
Speaker 3: record and even starting to get attention around me as
Speaker 3: a songwriter. So I moved to Philly to start this
Speaker 3: band away from anybody who knew me as that and
Speaker 3: sort of hit out in Philly while I figured out
Speaker 3: how to sing and write songs for myself. But I
Speaker 3: started a night called the Clap with rich Nichols.
Speaker 4: Who managed the Roots.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was like a band night, and we
Speaker 3: had all kinds of people come through, even like my
Speaker 3: Chemical Romance I think did some of.
Speaker 4: Their earliest shows cool.
Speaker 3: And so we would just play every week at this
Speaker 3: place called the Fire in Philly, and I kind of
Speaker 3: got over it. I learned how to use my voice
Speaker 3: as like, do all kinds of fun stuff with my voice,
Speaker 3: and so that I wasn't embarrassed about singing anymore.
Speaker 4: And I will say to this.
Speaker 3: Day performing in my band Stiffed the Punk Stuff was
Speaker 3: the most freeing and fun performances I've ever done in
Speaker 3: my life. Like it was no choreography, no technical like
Speaker 3: you know, no sinking track to vocals and this, no
Speaker 3: dancers like it was just pure free energy. And so
Speaker 3: that was something that I really learned that was so magical,
Speaker 3: and I really I learned.
Speaker 4: That I loved it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And as far as my parents, there there were
Speaker 3: times between putting out the race record to Stiff where
Speaker 3: my dad was like, Okay, it's been like ten years,
Speaker 3: when are you getting a real job.
Speaker 2: That's what he'd be.
Speaker 3: He would be supportive, like he collected every article for
Speaker 3: Stiff and kept it in a book front center at
Speaker 3: every Stiff show. But then it'd be times where I
Speaker 3: was like broken. He'd be like, when are you getting
Speaker 3: a real job.
Speaker 4: So there was like because he was I think an
Speaker 4: artist at heart, but he didn't.
Speaker 3: My dad's from the projects, and he like, you know,
Speaker 3: he ended up going to like pen law school and
Speaker 3: becoming a lawyer and doing really well for himself, but
Speaker 3: he didn't have the freedom he thought to be an artist,
Speaker 3: economic freedom, and so he was torn because he was
Speaker 3: watching me doing kind of what he probably could have
Speaker 3: been into. But then he also had that part where
Speaker 3: there was like I'm not going to pay your bills
Speaker 3: like you got to pay your bills, like you don't
Speaker 3: get to do this. So and then he passed away
Speaker 3: before before Santy Gold, So I know, but my mom didn't.
Speaker 3: And my mom, I think it's kind of just like fascinated,
Speaker 3: you know. I just I just I mean, she doesn't
Speaker 3: say that much about it, but you can tell she's
Speaker 3: very proud and she's you know, she's kind of she
Speaker 3: never came to the shows like my dad that was
Speaker 3: his thing. My mom came to some My mom came
Speaker 3: to some shows.
Speaker 2: You know. Is it like a personality type difference, like
Speaker 2: less creative.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's not as creative. She's a psychiatrist. I've been
Speaker 3: interviewing her because I'm actually writing a memoir that goes
Speaker 3: back for generations of women in my family to my
Speaker 3: great grandmother.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: So I've been interviewing my mom a lot.
Speaker 3: And we actually just had a conversation that she used
Speaker 3: to be a musician and in the marching band and
Speaker 3: she could read music and so she actually was into music.
Speaker 3: But we've always been like, oh, mom's not that into
Speaker 3: music because she didn't have a record collection.
Speaker 4: But she's like, well dad had the records that I liked.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So she is into music, but it's just very different,
Speaker 3: you know, she's not like front and cineature show.
Speaker 2: Has she given you any helpful advice from like a
Speaker 2: psychiatrist perspective about your career?
Speaker 4: No, my mom. No, Everyone's like, what's it like to
Speaker 4: have a psychiatrist? What is it like?
Speaker 3: It's like having a country mom from Mississippi who is
Speaker 3: your mom and totally.
Speaker 4: Not a psychiatrist, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, my mom is smart, you know, I'm not
Speaker 3: saying that, like she's very smart, and but I don't know,
Speaker 3: just it did not apply to her kids at all.
Speaker 2: Like she doesn't analyze you, No, but.
Speaker 4: I think psychiatry is for her. And her practice was
Speaker 4: very different from psychology.
Speaker 3: So she did a lot of work, especially later in
Speaker 3: her career, she did a lot of like community facing things,
Speaker 3: like she worked in prisons for a couple of years,
Speaker 3: not a couple for several years. She worked in like
Speaker 3: community health centers and really was dealing with like people
Speaker 3: with severe mental illness and medication and stuff like that too.
Speaker 4: Wow, So there wasn't that much of that happening with me.
Speaker 4: For my mom's way.
Speaker 2: That's a heavy job though to come home and have
Speaker 2: to also be a parent.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 3: Even crazier, my mom went to medical school after she
Speaker 3: had three kids.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: When I was in first grade, my mom started medical school.
Speaker 3: So she did four years of medical school and four
Speaker 3: years of residency while raising three children.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was it was a lot, for sure.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that your mom had three and you have three.
Speaker 3: I know, and I kind of wanted three too, but
Speaker 3: I didn't think I was going to have three because
Speaker 3: I had kids pretty late.
Speaker 4: But then I had twins and it.
Speaker 3: Was kind of twins, like, I don't know, man, it's
Speaker 3: kind of like being in a blender.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 2: I've just been thinking about for like a lot of
Speaker 2: us like when we were kids, Like we were just
Speaker 2: left alone so much more. And you say, you know,
Speaker 2: your your mom had three kids, she was in school school,
Speaker 2: and there's something to be said about that because you
Speaker 2: become so much more self reliant.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's something great about making your kids figure things
Speaker 3: out on their own, yeah, and do things for themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Where I'm so glad that that I had the experiences
Speaker 3: of like having to figure things out, because I did.
Speaker 3: I did figure them out, and I'm very capable now,
Speaker 3: and I think when I think the way that we
Speaker 3: parent now or that you know, it's sort of it's
Speaker 3: like trying to make everything so nice and smooth and easy,
Speaker 3: but like adversity really does build character.
Speaker 1: We have to take one last quick break and then
Speaker 1: we'll come back with more from Lea Rose and Santy Gold.
Speaker 1: We're back with the rest of Leo Rose's conversation with
Speaker 1: Santy Gold.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about it because I was listening to an
Speaker 2: interview with some young artists and I just wasn't feeling
Speaker 2: the edge and the grit from them, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I think it's because all these kids were overparented.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's so many terrible parents out there, and
Speaker 3: there's so many people who were not overparented, who were
Speaker 3: just totally neglected and abused and didn't have anybody too,
Speaker 3: you know. So there's so many there's such a vast
Speaker 3: spectrum of the parenting that people received. And I think
Speaker 3: that if I were to say was wrong with art
Speaker 3: and artists today, it would have more to do with
Speaker 3: values and social media and the idea that you can
Speaker 3: have overnight success for no talent, and that there's no
Speaker 3: dues paying and that you are entitled to whatever. Somebody
Speaker 3: who's worked for twenty years should be yours instantly. I
Speaker 3: think that that has created a generation of entitlement and
Speaker 3: also the values, like people don't value art, So art
Speaker 3: is going to change because even.
Speaker 4: For me, honestly, like.
Speaker 3: I hate to say it, but I don't really give
Speaker 3: a fuck anymore right now, right now today, I'm going
Speaker 3: to tell you that the effort that I put into
Speaker 3: my art is undervalued, and I don't really want to
Speaker 3: put that effort in anymore. That's where I'm at, and
Speaker 3: I think that that's what's going to continue to happen
Speaker 3: because it's so hard to make a living at it,
Speaker 3: it's so hard to connect with the people who actually
Speaker 3: appreciate it, and it takes too much time. As a mother,
Speaker 3: I'm like, actually, I spent all this time and energy
Speaker 3: last time, and it didn't really do what it needed
Speaker 3: to do for me to be for it to be
Speaker 3: worth it for me to do it again. So I
Speaker 3: probably won't do that again for you know that album,
Speaker 3: for my last.
Speaker 4: Couple albums, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, like, what the system has become, the
Speaker 3: way that we profit off of our art, the expectation
Speaker 3: of constant output, constant product, the amount of hustle that
Speaker 3: we have to do to make money, not from the
Speaker 3: art that we make, but from doing other stuff that
Speaker 3: has nothing to do with making the art. As artists,
Speaker 3: it's discouraging and it is a deterrent for entering the
Speaker 3: art world. And so the art will definitely reflect that
Speaker 3: shift of values, which is sad. And I'm hoping that
Speaker 3: we can actually like figure out some ways to sustain
Speaker 3: art and artists so that that doesn't happen, because if
Speaker 3: we have a whole bunch of vapid art, is going
Speaker 3: to be a real sad state for culture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some of that was reflected in the note that
Speaker 2: you put up on your Instagram or on your website
Speaker 2: about the decision to cancel your tour. I love that
Speaker 2: note so much because you took the time to explain
Speaker 2: exactly where you were at as a business person, as
Speaker 2: an artist emotionally, how everything was just taking a toll
Speaker 2: on you and the wheels were coming off. Can you
Speaker 2: just talk a little bit about your decision to write
Speaker 2: that and what the process of writing that for you.
Speaker 3: Well, I knew I had to let my fans know
Speaker 3: what was going on if I was going to cancel
Speaker 3: a tour.
Speaker 4: I felt really bad about canceling tour.
Speaker 3: I really kind of felt that the tour might not
Speaker 3: happen from before it was announced, but I was pressured
Speaker 3: to announce it anyway, and which they were like, if
Speaker 3: you don't announce it, then you know, then we're gonna
Speaker 3: miss the you know, if we do do it, we're gonna.
Speaker 4: Miss the opportunity or whatever.
Speaker 3: So I kind of I announced it, but then I
Speaker 3: knew it was I knew it was coming, like so
Speaker 3: I felt like I really owed them an explanation, and
Speaker 3: like we talked about you know, I'm a journal writer,
Speaker 3: so I go in when I write, I go in.
Speaker 3: And that letter was originally like four pages long, and
Speaker 3: I wrote it late at night one night, and I
Speaker 3: was like, who's awake right now? And I called Dave
Speaker 3: Sidek from TV on the radio and I was like, Dave,
Speaker 3: listen to this, you know, and he was like, wow,
Speaker 3: that's like an op ed and a letter and a book.
Speaker 3: He was like, maybe strip it down and hit these points,
Speaker 3: you know, and he helped me.
Speaker 4: He was so great. That's my buddy. I love him
Speaker 4: so much. But he was like, look, I'm so glad
Speaker 4: you're saying this.
Speaker 3: Because everybody's talking about this and we all are feeling
Speaker 3: like this, you know. And that was my experience, Like
Speaker 3: everybody I was talking to, we were all just silently suffering,
Speaker 3: and I was like, this isn't helping anybody, and its
Speaker 3: certainly not helping our fans and people who care about
Speaker 3: us and our art to not know what we're going through.
Speaker 2: Was this like a pandemic, like coming out of the
Speaker 2: pandemic specific issue or was this an issue that you
Speaker 2: felt existed before the pandemic.
Speaker 3: Well, see what happened was it's not There was a
Speaker 3: very specific circumstances of the pandemic that made it so
Speaker 3: so stark, you know, like so in our face and
Speaker 3: so impossible. Like the inflation is a huge part of it,
Speaker 3: the fact that gas was so expensive. So we are
Speaker 3: tour buses. I mean, people are out there, they're just
Speaker 3: out there now. But like a lot of artists are
Speaker 3: making like at least seventy percent less than what they
Speaker 3: normally make, So how many times are going.
Speaker 4: To be able to continue to do that.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of people that went out and did
Speaker 3: full arena tours and end up millions of dollars in
Speaker 3: debt because you're still spending way much, way more money
Speaker 3: than you were spending and you still have to make
Speaker 3: your show.
Speaker 4: Look like at the same level that you are.
Speaker 3: So some people came out of pocket for that and
Speaker 3: just did it, you know, but how many times are
Speaker 3: you going to be.
Speaker 4: Able to do that?
Speaker 3: And a lot of those circumstances have not changed, Like
Speaker 3: I think eventually less people will be out on the
Speaker 3: road at the same time. But then there's the bigger
Speaker 3: problem of like mental health, which existed prior, and I
Speaker 3: think a lot of the you know, media picked up
Speaker 3: on that angle. It's like there are artists who are
Speaker 3: out there and touring fine and making money, but they
Speaker 3: are so depleted and it's such an unsustainable pace to
Speaker 3: be expected to tour as the main way that you
Speaker 3: sustain your career, whether it's financial or just having to
Speaker 3: stay in the public eyes so you be so you're
Speaker 3: relevant either way, it's too much to have to like
Speaker 3: put out music constantly and be on the road constantly,
Speaker 3: Like that was never the model. Like when I was
Speaker 3: growing up, people put out records about every four years
Speaker 3: and they sold their records, and they made their money
Speaker 3: and they could tour or not tour, but you know
Speaker 3: they did, but they didn't have to spend so much
Speaker 3: time on the road. Maybe when you're like young, it
Speaker 3: might be fun going around the world the first time
Speaker 3: is really really fun going around the world. When you
Speaker 3: have three kids that have to leave your family and
Speaker 3: you've been there before and you're doing above five shows
Speaker 3: a week, it's like, that's not fun. And when you're
Speaker 3: doing that every year, like people are putting out records
Speaker 3: every year. Now like I'm not doing that, and I
Speaker 3: don't even want to do that.
Speaker 2: What was it like for you specifically in the pandemic,
Speaker 2: Like before the pandemic started, before we knew what it was,
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden it became clear that
Speaker 2: we're going to be stuck inside. What was that like
Speaker 2: for you as an artist, for someone who had been
Speaker 2: out and around and used to moving and working with people,
Speaker 2: how did that affect you?
Speaker 3: Well, the hardest part for me was just having all
Speaker 3: the children and no help in the house. In the
Speaker 3: initial lockdown where we like nobody was coming in the house.
Speaker 4: That was just pretty impossible.
Speaker 3: My twins had just turned two and nobody else could cook,
Speaker 3: nobody else was deep clean, and it was just undoable.
Speaker 3: So what happened was I started feeling like I was
Speaker 3: drowning and I was going to have like some sort
Speaker 3: of breakdown honestly, if I couldn't have some sort of
Speaker 3: space to like just be my normal self, like other
Speaker 3: than mom and other than just being on everybody else's
Speaker 3: schedule of needs and no time for my own needs.
Speaker 3: So eventually I was able to carve out like the
Speaker 3: four days when my mom would come in, I would
Speaker 3: get to go to the back house for three hours
Speaker 3: after dinner and write or record or do whatever I
Speaker 3: needed to do. And thank god, I had just set
Speaker 3: up my studio at home, and so I started working
Speaker 3: on my record and it was like the most cathartic
Speaker 3: thing because there had been so much because it wasn't
Speaker 3: just the pandemic, it was the riots and all the
Speaker 3: police brutality and like the wildfire. It was so much
Speaker 3: going on, and I had had no opportunity to even access.
Speaker 3: I was in survival mode, you know, so I didn't
Speaker 3: get to process any of it. So it wasn't until
Speaker 3: I had space in my backhouse that I started being
Speaker 3: able to process it through writing and music.
Speaker 4: That's how I live.
Speaker 3: That's my lifeline is creativity. So to be able to
Speaker 3: have the space, I was like stuff was pouring out
Speaker 3: of me.
Speaker 4: So I just wrote this record so fast. And then
Speaker 4: we got deeper in the pandemic. We went to Canada
Speaker 4: and we had a nanny at that point who came
Speaker 4: to stay with us.
Speaker 3: And I rented a cabin in the woods and sent
Speaker 3: all my music equipment out and that's when I like,
Speaker 3: I actually like made the record. So I was doing
Speaker 3: virtual sessions with producers. I'd be there like eight hours
Speaker 3: a day, and that was amazing because then it was
Speaker 3: like fun. Then it was like, I mean, I was
Speaker 3: getting to have a social interaction with my friends all over.
Speaker 4: The world for hours at a time.
Speaker 3: We spend half the time just talking because we were
Speaker 3: just also alone.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I feel like yourself again. You felt like
Speaker 2: an adult, Yeah, and also just to be creative.
Speaker 3: But then also the wonderful thing about the pandemic was
Speaker 3: that I ended up for years, I felt like I
Speaker 3: was on this hamster wheel of you know, albums and
Speaker 3: touring and trying to have kids in between, and you know,
Speaker 3: and I got to kind of step off and start
Speaker 3: some ideas that I've been wanting to do for years.
Speaker 3: One was came up with the idea to do this
Speaker 3: memoir and I wrote the book proposal. Another was I
Speaker 3: came up with the idea for a movie that I
Speaker 3: wanted to do, which I've just finished the first draft
Speaker 3: of that, and that'll have an album to go with it.
Speaker 3: And so I got to take the time to start
Speaker 3: all these other things that once I started them, even
Speaker 3: once the you know, once things were back going, I
Speaker 3: just like was like, I'm going to finish these things
Speaker 3: that I started. So it was actually an opportunity to
Speaker 3: be creative in many different ways that I hadn't had
Speaker 3: the time to start.
Speaker 2: And if you were on tour, you would have never
Speaker 2: had the opportunity to do those things. You would have
Speaker 2: had space.
Speaker 4: Ever, because I've been wanting to do a lot of
Speaker 4: those things for years.
Speaker 2: So are you playing shows now?
Speaker 4: I have four shows this summer?
Speaker 2: Okay, how are you feeling now? Do you think about
Speaker 2: it differently? Do you feel prepared to be out again?
Speaker 3: You want the honest answer, I am so into all
Speaker 3: the other stuff that I'm doing right now that's not music,
Speaker 3: and I'm really having an amazing time doing a bunch
Speaker 3: of things that I've been wanting to do for years,
Speaker 3: and so I think I'm going to focus actually on
Speaker 3: some of these other projects for a while. And they
Speaker 3: are not necessarily not going to include music, you know,
Speaker 3: but they're not going to include doing things the way
Speaker 3: in the traditional like make a record and tour.
Speaker 4: I don't think I'll be doing that for a while.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm having so much fun, and actually it's just
Speaker 3: so much fresher and more exciting to like not be
Speaker 3: doing things the way that I've always done them. Shows
Speaker 3: right now don't feel exciting, but when I get on stage,
Speaker 3: I will be very excited to be there with my fans.
Speaker 3: I do miss my fans, and I generally have fun performing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Have you noticed that your crowd has changed over
Speaker 2: the years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean some of them are older like me,
Speaker 3: and then some of them. But the thing is, I
Speaker 3: got a lot of new young fans. Like I think
Speaker 3: a lot of my fans are still like twenty five,
Speaker 3: which they were when I first started. So I've got
Speaker 3: all the fans that were twenty five and now are
Speaker 3: fifteen years older, and then I've got actually new fans
Speaker 3: that are twenty five and some even younger. So I
Speaker 3: love that people are still finding out about my music
Speaker 3: and it's still resonating with people. Like I said when
Speaker 3: I listened to that first album, it's still resonates, and
Speaker 3: I think a lot of the things, like during the pandemic,
Speaker 3: I noticed disparate youth really like kind of had to jump,
Speaker 3: and I think that that's because the messages are really
Speaker 3: yeah forever.
Speaker 2: I'm curious where you are now, like what is your
Speaker 2: relationship to success and to ambition and how has that
Speaker 2: changed over just the arc of your career from when
Speaker 2: you first released the album, your debut album till now,
Speaker 2: Like how do you think you think differently about success
Speaker 2: at this point.
Speaker 3: I think I'm really like coming into a new space
Speaker 3: and my understanding of a lot of things. I don't know,
Speaker 3: FOMO just completely disappeared out of my realm. And that
Speaker 3: used to be a big thing, especially with social media,
Speaker 3: like that whole thing about like always needing to be
Speaker 3: there and be in the scene or should I have
Speaker 3: done this or should I not have done this? That
Speaker 3: I don't really see that anymore. My idea of success
Speaker 3: is balance and to be able to be creative in
Speaker 3: a way that brings me joy and fulfillment and peace
Speaker 3: and continuing to evolve personally. I want to be able
Speaker 3: to make things that are inspiring and that change people's
Speaker 3: perspectives of themselves and the world. And that's what makes
Speaker 3: me feel successful is when I can do that, and
Speaker 3: also now that I'm responsible for a bunch of people,
Speaker 3: to be able to support them and myself in doing that.
Speaker 3: I think you know, at one point, though, I probably
Speaker 3: would have said that I want as many people as
Speaker 3: possible to know my music, but I just want the
Speaker 3: people who are ready to know my music to know
Speaker 3: my music.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like, I know, you said that you
Speaker 2: set out to make music that sounded like nothing that
Speaker 2: was already out there and you had it, you heard
Speaker 2: it in your mind. Do you feel like you've been
Speaker 2: able to achieve that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3: I read somewhere yesterday that there's like less than one
Speaker 3: percent of producers or black women, and I was like,
Speaker 3: that's so messed up. But I think that part of
Speaker 3: my journey in being able to get down what I
Speaker 3: hear in my head is actually just to become a
Speaker 3: producer and be able to direct the musicians and producers
Speaker 3: that I work with to make a sound that's very
Speaker 3: specific to what I want it to be. And it's
Speaker 3: been a skill set that I've learned over the years
Speaker 3: and to be able to make that happen.
Speaker 4: And I think it's man.
Speaker 3: I guess it's rare, but I wish more women would
Speaker 3: do it because it really, I think would make a
Speaker 3: big difference into how women are portrayed.
Speaker 4: In music and.
Speaker 3: Give a lot more power to women in creating unique
Speaker 3: voices and sounds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how is it for you? When you heard the
Speaker 2: break my Soul remix and Beyonce shouted you out?
Speaker 3: I think other people had a bigger reaction than I did,
Speaker 3: But it was cool. I was very far away from
Speaker 3: everything I was in Jamaica and when I was sitting out,
Speaker 3: like on this thing over the ocean, and my phone
Speaker 3: just happened to be with me, and it was like bing,
Speaker 3: bing bing, and I was like, oh, it's ruining my
Speaker 3: moment on the ocean.
Speaker 4: But then everyone started saying.
Speaker 3: I was like, what are they talking about? I had
Speaker 3: no idea what they were talking about. And then somebody
Speaker 3: sent it to me and I was like, oh, that's cool.
Speaker 3: It felt good to be acknowledged in that way, because
Speaker 3: I do think I said, I definitely know that I
Speaker 3: have been a pioneer in a lot of ways, and
Speaker 3: I know that I've influenced a lot of artists, but
Speaker 3: unfortunately artists don't always say who has influenced them or
Speaker 3: they just you know.
Speaker 4: And it was nice that she actually said that.
Speaker 3: And also the company and the names that she included
Speaker 3: that felt really special.
Speaker 4: So I was really grateful that she did that.
Speaker 3: And I not just for myself, but for some of
Speaker 3: the other artists that she mentioned that I know people
Speaker 3: didn't know of, you know.
Speaker 4: Like Rosetta Tharp.
Speaker 3: I mean, like, I know a lot of those people
Speaker 3: were like who, And it's like, that's good that she
Speaker 3: used her platform to bring attention to these women.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's great. Well, thank you so much for
Speaker 2: doing this. This was fun.
Speaker 4: Thank you, it was fun.
Speaker 1: Thanks to Sonti Gold for sharing artistic vision with us.
Speaker 1: You can hear all of our favorite Sonti Gold songs
Speaker 1: on a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. You
Speaker 1: can subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com
Speaker 1: slash broken record Podcast, where you can find all of
Speaker 1: our new episodes. Broken Record is produced to help from
Speaker 1: Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ven Taliday, Nisha Venkat, Jordan McMillan,
Speaker 1: and Eric Sander. Our editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record
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Speaker 1: Anny Beats. I'm Justina richm