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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Santy Gold is an artist who exists at the

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Speaker 1: cross section of punk, dub, new wave, and indie pop.

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Speaker 1: Long frustrated with attempts to classify her music, she's always

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Speaker 1: been a proud outlier among the restrictive categories used to

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Speaker 1: divide music. Sony Gold's anti establishment bent was in part

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Speaker 1: a reaction to working as an A and R for

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Speaker 1: Epic Records Black music Department. Frustrated with what they categorized

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Speaker 1: as urban music in the early yachts, she left her job,

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Speaker 1: went home to Philly and started a punk band called Stifft.

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Speaker 1: After honing her skills for a few years as the

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Speaker 1: lead singer, she released her debut solo album, Santy Gold

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. The album's lead singles, creator

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Speaker 1: and ls artists were a revelation when they came out,

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Speaker 1: and led to Sante Gold headlining tours around the world

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Speaker 1: and opening shows for Byork, Cold, Blay jay Z and

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Speaker 1: The Beastie Boys. Now with three more albums to her credit,

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Speaker 1: including last year's Soulstring Spirituals, Santy Gold is celebrating the

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Speaker 1: fifteenth anniversary of her debut release. She's also expanded her

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Speaker 1: artistic endeavors to include a podcast called Noble Champions, where

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Speaker 1: she mindes the creative life with friends like Olivia Wilde, Questlove,

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Speaker 1: and Yasin Bay. On today's episode of Broken Record, Lea

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Speaker 1: Rose talks to Santy Gold about the unique path she

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Speaker 1: took to build her solo career. She also shares why

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Speaker 1: she decided to cancel her tour last year with a

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Speaker 1: heartfelt public letter that shared insight into the financial and

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Speaker 1: emotional toll of touring post pandemic. Santy Gold also recalls

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Speaker 1: the moment she discovered she was in a list of

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Speaker 1: influential black female artists called out by Beyonce on her

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Speaker 1: break My Soul remix. This is Broken Record notes in

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Speaker 1: the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchell. Here's Lea Rose with

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Speaker 1: Santy Gold.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for doing this. I'm really looking

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Speaker 2: forward to it. I know we've been trying to get

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Speaker 2: it together for a while now. Yeah, since I've been

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Speaker 2: researching this, since I've been in your world, you feel

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Speaker 2: so strong and so uncompromising in your work. Has it

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Speaker 2: always felt like that for you? Like, have you always

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Speaker 2: just been really clear on what you wanted to make?

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Speaker 3: I mean, as a process of years of being a

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Speaker 3: kid and like writing in my journal and you know,

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Speaker 3: trying to play some instruments and then trying to make

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Speaker 3: some beats, and so it wasn't like I know exactly

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Speaker 3: what I want to do. In fact, I've read through

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Speaker 3: my journals whenever I get a chance. I recently, because

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Speaker 3: I'm actually working on a books. I actually just read

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Speaker 3: through this whole journal last week. But there's this one

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Speaker 3: entry from when I was about maybe like fifteen to seventeen.

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Speaker 4: I don't know that.

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Speaker 3: I was like, I know there's music in me, but

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Speaker 3: I think the kind of music doesn't exist yet.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: You know I wrote that as a teenager.

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Speaker 3: Because I just I knew that, like, I liked so

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Speaker 3: many different kinds of music, but nothing felt like it

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Speaker 3: could hold the full spectrum of what I wanted to

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Speaker 3: make or hear.

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Speaker 4: Even so I would just jump around.

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Speaker 3: I would listen to like rock, and then I'd be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: this doesn't have enough bass. And then I listened to

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Speaker 3: hip hop and I'm like, this is this is just

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Speaker 3: not crazy enough, you know what I mean? And so

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Speaker 3: I would just go back and forth. And even when

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Speaker 3: I started to make music, which was kind of my mistake,

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Speaker 3: I only started to make music because I couldn't find

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Speaker 3: what I wanted to listen to. And first I tried

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Speaker 3: writing for other people, but then they didn't do it

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Speaker 3: exactly like I wanted it to sound. So it was

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Speaker 3: just really the art led me to be the performer

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Speaker 3: because I just wanted to I wanted to make exactly

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Speaker 3: what I wanted to hear. So I wrote a record

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Speaker 3: for an artist called Reese, and it was like mixing

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Speaker 3: rock and had more soul than I would have.

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Speaker 4: Put in because it was collaborative.

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Speaker 3: And then I was like, I want to make a

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Speaker 3: punk rock record, and then I did that for a bit,

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Speaker 3: but then that was limiting as well, and so then

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Speaker 3: it wasn't until Santy Gold where I was just like,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to make whatever I want, and anything I

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Speaker 3: want to go in it is going to go in it.

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Speaker 3: And no one will probably want to hear this music,

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Speaker 3: but I'm going to make it anyway. And so that

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Speaker 3: was the first time that I really just put it

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Speaker 3: all down. And I would say the process of coming

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Speaker 3: to that, becoming that person who was clear in that

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Speaker 3: vision started as a teenager, and you know, I went

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Speaker 3: to like I would change my scene and my look,

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Speaker 3: like all the time, I was like a Philly fly

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Speaker 3: girl with gold earrings and ace metro. And then I

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Speaker 3: was like, you know, in a classic rock and vintage

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Speaker 3: T shirts. And then I was like going out to

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Speaker 3: house music. You know.

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Speaker 4: I was just literally like taking it all in.

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Speaker 3: And it was until I went to Quaker School when

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Speaker 3: I was about fifteen that I started to understand that

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Speaker 3: I could like hold space for all these things.

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Speaker 2: What was it about the Quaker school that it helps

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Speaker 2: you realize that.

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Speaker 3: I think it's several things. I think they gave me

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Speaker 3: a lot of autonomy to be an artist at that school,

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Speaker 3: Like it was like the whole creed was there's that

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Speaker 3: of God and everyone, and so you'd sit in meeting

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Speaker 3: for worship once a week. That was the only religious

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Speaker 3: aspect was sitting in meeting for worship once a week

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Speaker 3: for forty five.

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Speaker 4: Minutes, and it was in silence.

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Speaker 3: You sit in silence unless you were moved to stand

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Speaker 3: up and say something. And the idea was anything that

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Speaker 3: you wanted to stand up and say. It could be

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Speaker 3: anything like I had a dream last night and blah blah,

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Speaker 3: or you know, it could be anything, but if you

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Speaker 3: felt like you wanted to stand up and say it.

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Speaker 3: The idea was that it was sort of worth reflecting

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Speaker 3: upon by the whole community. It was valid, like and

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Speaker 3: you know, you call your teachers by the first name,

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Speaker 3: so it was like, oh, my voice is important, you know.

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Speaker 3: And then they had like painting studio. I was a

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Speaker 3: painting sort of major by my senior year. Whatever that meant, like,

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Speaker 3: I took senior studio, so you would get to go

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Speaker 3: and paint for like three hours, build whatever size canvas,

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Speaker 3: and do whatever you want. And then I got like,

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Speaker 3: I won the art Award, and I like, you know,

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Speaker 3: I knew by that point, I had been to this

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Speaker 3: all girls private school for eight years, and I went

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Speaker 3: to this public school which was a magnet school, which

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Speaker 3: had all kids from Uliver City. And then I went

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Speaker 3: to this school, and so I knew a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: I knew a lot of people in the city. I

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Speaker 3: knew all the parties happening, and people were like valuing

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Speaker 3: that about me, that I that I knew about all

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Speaker 3: these different scenes. So I think I started to be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: it's actually cool to sit in the middle of all

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Speaker 3: these different scenes and not have to choose. And I

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Speaker 3: never felt like I met anybody else who was doing

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Speaker 3: that until I was about thirty one. Honestly, when I

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Speaker 3: started when I met like spank Rock, I think when

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Speaker 3: I met Naim, I was like, this is the first

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Speaker 3: person that actually mirrors me in this way.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember like conversations you had that helped you

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Speaker 2: realize that?

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Speaker 4: No, I don't even think it was a conversational type

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Speaker 4: of thing.

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Speaker 3: It was just like, you know, energetically, I am a

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Speaker 3: very intuitive person and I feel people, you know, and

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Speaker 3: it was like, clearly, I mean with the music he

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Speaker 3: was doing is amazing conversation that he has showed so

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Speaker 3: much more depth and perspective.

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Speaker 4: Just going over his producer Triple Exchange.

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Speaker 3: His house and listening to records, I mean, I just

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Speaker 3: knew what their influences were and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is like me. And then Naim became such a

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Speaker 3: support and inspiration for me. So just conversationally as an artist,

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Speaker 3: it was support as an artist who could actually get

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Speaker 3: their head.

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Speaker 4: Around the whole thing that I was doing.

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Speaker 3: You know. Just to have community in that way was

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Speaker 3: a huge part of me being able to have confidence

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Speaker 3: and strength, because everybody needs community, and I think as

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Speaker 3: an artist trying to do something that's kind of going

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Speaker 3: against the grain. It can be very isolating and lonely,

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Speaker 3: and then those times you don't really feel as confident.

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Speaker 3: And so when you have the community to be like,

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Speaker 3: you're fucking killing it, you know, like even if you're not,

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Speaker 3: even if nobody else knows that you're killing it, to

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Speaker 3: have somebody that's like you're killing it, it just changes.

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Speaker 2: Everything, It really does. But it's funny because some people

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Speaker 2: are motivated by the opposite. Like you think of somebody

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Speaker 2: like a Kanye who's like motivated to prove everybody wrong.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I'm that too. I've always been that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I have that in my little kid journals too,

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Speaker 3: Like if some guy like didn't work out.

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Speaker 4: I'd like, I'll show him. I'm gonna make everybody want me.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: I definitely have that too.

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Speaker 3: It's a competitiveness, but it's more like an internal competitiveness,

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Speaker 3: Like but that comes from knowing though, it's not really

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Speaker 3: from wanting to prove everybody wrong. It's wanting to show

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Speaker 3: everybody what you know that you already are.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: You have to have confidence to feel that way, because

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Speaker 3: you're like, they don't fucking see it. They don't get

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Speaker 3: it like nobody sees it. I have to make it.

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Speaker 4: Visible and undeniable, you know.

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Speaker 3: So that's really a it's really a drive that's like,

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Speaker 3: there's just this knowing, you know. That's that's what my

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Speaker 3: whole thing is to answer your first question. Is just

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Speaker 3: a knowing that you have about who you are and

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Speaker 3: about what you can create. Really, that I think is

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Speaker 3: what's special about a lot of artists. It's just that

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Speaker 3: intrinsic knowing about their own power and magic. You know.

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Speaker 2: Has there ever been a point in time where you

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Speaker 2: felt like you've lost access to that part of yourself

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Speaker 2: where you can create from.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, lots of times.

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Speaker 3: I remember after the first record when I had to

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Speaker 3: turn around and do a second record, and of course

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Speaker 3: on the second record, everything's different from the first record.

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Speaker 3: The team isn't the same, and like the pressure is

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Speaker 3: very different, and I remember feeling really overwhelmed, and I had.

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Speaker 4: Some people there in my corner then too.

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Speaker 3: I remember Pharrell being somebody that I talked to a

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Speaker 3: lot during that period, and he was awesome. He was

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Speaker 3: really helpful and encouraging a bunch of other friends as well.

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Speaker 3: I remember even when before my first Sonte Gold record,

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Speaker 3: my father had passed away, and it was just a

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Speaker 3: whole traumatic era of life. And I stopped writing altogether

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Speaker 3: because everything I wrote was so dark, even the poetry,

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Speaker 3: it was so dark. And I was like, I'm just

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Speaker 3: going to put this down for a second until it

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Speaker 3: feels a little bit different, you know. And it's not

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Speaker 3: that it's not I mean, some people need that need

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Speaker 3: that to come out that way, but I was like,

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Speaker 3: this is making me feel worse, you know.

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Speaker 4: So I just stepped away.

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Speaker 3: And then I moved to New York and moved back

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Speaker 3: to New York and started going out, and it came

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Speaker 3: out very differently when I came. When I got to

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Speaker 3: New York, it was like I was about it. I

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Speaker 3: was just about the art and like all these scenesters

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Speaker 3: was around, and that's when I wrote LS Artists.

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Speaker 4: I was like, get out of my face. This is

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Speaker 4: what I'm here to do, you know.

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Speaker 3: And it came out very different, and it was it

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Speaker 3: was empowered at that by that point, because sometimes I

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Speaker 3: really believe that I think Joni Mitchell said this in

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Speaker 3: an interview one time, that you just really need to

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Speaker 3: allow your creativity. For me, everybody's not the same, but

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Speaker 3: for me, I need to have fallo periods. I need

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Speaker 3: to have time where like I make music and then

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Speaker 3: I put the music thing away and I do something

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Speaker 3: else creative and let let that sort of the nutrients

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Speaker 3: come back, you know, because it's all spent after you

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Speaker 3: do the record, and you got to wait for life

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Speaker 3: to happen and perspectives to change and have something new

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Speaker 3: to want to say. And those are foul periods. And

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Speaker 3: I'm actually I don't really consider myself like a musician

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Speaker 3: as much as I just consider myself an artist, like

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Speaker 3: I have so many different ways that I can create

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Speaker 3: and that I enjoy creating, and I really don't like

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Speaker 3: making music all the time, which is why I think

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Speaker 3: it takes me a long time to put out records

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Speaker 3: because I actually need to do other things.

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Speaker 4: And the foul periods are crucial.

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Speaker 2: But you never get worried like, oh it's never going

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Speaker 2: to come back.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, everybody does.

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Speaker 3: But see what happens is over time is just like

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Speaker 3: you learn that all feelings are welcome, and you thank

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Speaker 3: your feelings and you say thank you for showing me

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Speaker 3: you know that I feel this way about this or

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Speaker 3: that I need to make this change. And with that

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Speaker 3: you just kind of recognize you don't. You don't hold

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Speaker 3: on to cling to the feeling and be like is

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Speaker 3: this ever gonna go away? You just let it flow, right,

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Speaker 3: you know. And it's the same thing with moments of

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Speaker 3: feeling uncreative or blocked. You just say, Okay, thank you

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Speaker 3: for letting me know I need to do something else

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Speaker 3: or go do something inspiring, and you don't cling to

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Speaker 3: it like this is never gonna go You just let

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Speaker 3: it flow and it goes away.

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Speaker 4: You don't panic.

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Speaker 3: And I think in the beginning you panic, but then

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Speaker 3: as as you as you hit that spot over and

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Speaker 3: over and over the years and you're like, okay, like

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Speaker 3: the album's gonna go cook.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that that like sounds like something that

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Speaker 2: comes with age too. It's like you've been through it

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Speaker 2: enough that you know it can be like a cycle.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So your debut album came out fifteen years ago this year.

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Speaker 4: And that's crazy to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, like, speaking of looking back at your old diaries,

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Speaker 2: do you ever listen to the album?

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Speaker 3: Not often, but I have maybe every like five years once.

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Speaker 2: What's your impression of it now? Fifteen years God's good record.

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Speaker 3: I honestly, it's for me, I'm one of those people

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Speaker 3: like I don't have any tattoos, like for example, right,

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Speaker 3: because I'm the type of person if I get something

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Speaker 3: years later, I will be so mad and hated and

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Speaker 3: I'll be like, I can't believe I got this. I

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Speaker 3: can't believe I dressed like that. I can't believe I

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Speaker 3: had that haircut. I can't believe you know, I can't

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Speaker 3: believe I wore that makeup. I look crazy like I'm

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Speaker 3: that person. So in music, oh my god, like please,

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Speaker 3: I can't listen. I cringe and I just get I'll

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Speaker 3: like start sweating listening to something that I did. But

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Speaker 3: I will say that record, I never feel like that

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Speaker 3: way about And that's really telling, Like I really like

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Speaker 3: that record.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about L. E. S Rtist

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Speaker 2: Uh huh. You wrote that after moving to New York

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Speaker 2: from Philly, and was that sort of like a response

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Speaker 2: to the scene that was already happening in New York.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was more a response to me being a

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Speaker 3: complete introvert and going out but not being one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent ready to feel that energy. And it was very

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Speaker 3: see me and like, yes, kind of in the worst

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Speaker 3: way that I don't like where everyone's like, you know,

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Speaker 3: I literally say everything I thought in the song.

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Speaker 4: So it was everybody just looking at you and trying.

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Speaker 3: To get you to look at them and trying to,

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Speaker 3: you know, figure you out if they needed to know

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Speaker 3: you or not, you know what I mean. It was

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Speaker 3: just it was too much for me because I was

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Speaker 3: literally just coming out of like man, I was so

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Speaker 3: I was so raw that in that moment, I just

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Speaker 3: my dad had just died and it was like crazy

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Speaker 3: flip of my whole world, you know, and I was

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Speaker 3: just barely ready to even be doing anything and then

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Speaker 3: to step right back into Lower East Side at that time.

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Speaker 4: It was overwhelming. And that's what I was writing about.

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Speaker 3: Just being really overwhelmed, but being also very much about

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Speaker 3: stepping into that power that we discussed, and that clarity

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Speaker 3: and that like that determination to like really make something important,

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Speaker 3: but also contending with the noise and the kind of

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Speaker 3: bullshit and which is part of the music world and

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Speaker 3: you know, social world, music world, the world.

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Speaker 4: And I still don't like all that stuff very much.

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Speaker 3: And I'm still a total interpret I get like, I

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Speaker 3: have total social anxiety.

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Speaker 4: But you would never know unless I told.

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Speaker 2: You, you know, it's yeah, no, it doesn't seem like it,

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Speaker 2: and it's weird.

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Speaker 4: It comes in times like I have no anxiety about being.

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Speaker 2: On stage that I don't understand.

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Speaker 4: Well because it's fun.

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Speaker 3: It's like I mean, sometimes it's not fun at all,

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Speaker 3: like when I'm having sound problems, which is like fifty

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Speaker 3: percent of the time, it's actually a nightmare. Or there's

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Speaker 3: also like all kinds of crises that happen as a

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Speaker 3: touring artist.

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Speaker 4: It's not fun.

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Speaker 3: But actually when things are going well and I just

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Speaker 3: get to sing and be fun on stage, that's fun.

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Speaker 3: And I don't have problems like speaking to crowds or

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Speaker 3: anything like that. It's more like little stuff like when

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Speaker 3: I'm required to give energy in moments.

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Speaker 4: That I don't want to give energy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, small talk I hate, or like meeting people that

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Speaker 3: I don't really feel like meeting people like stuff like

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Speaker 3: that causes me.

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Speaker 4: So it's really the energy.

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Speaker 3: I don't have enough energy to just give give give

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Speaker 3: all the time, So it actually causes me anxiety to

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Speaker 3: have to show up and give energy when I don't

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Speaker 3: want to.

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Speaker 2: Because it's training. How does that work when you're meeting

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Speaker 2: like parents of your kids, friends or school situations.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's when I have it. It's a lot of that.

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Speaker 3: I remember last year around this time, it was like

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Speaker 3: the last day of school and my kids school has

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Speaker 3: something called step Up and it's the last day of

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Speaker 3: school and the kids sing a song and all the parents,

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Speaker 3: if the whole school has to come And I walked

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Speaker 3: in there and I almost started crying because I just

355
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Speaker 3: I was like, I don't feel like doing this right now.

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Speaker 3: It was like whatever was going on, I was already

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Speaker 3: super stressed out. Everybody had a mask, and I got

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Speaker 3: confused about one of the moms and I introduced her

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Speaker 3: to our husband as someone else. Lock.

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Speaker 2: Miss, that's so awkward.

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Speaker 4: I know, it's funny.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, those situations are so hard, but it's so interesting

363
00:17:20,356 --> 00:17:22,516
Speaker 2: that you could be comfortable on stage. And I was

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Speaker 2: thinking about that watching your tiny Desk because you did

365
00:17:25,636 --> 00:17:28,596
Speaker 2: so much talking in it, and I was nervous for you,

366
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Speaker 2: like I was projecting my own stuff on you, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my gosh, oh what is she gonna say?

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Speaker 2: And you were so good, and you were so collected,

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Speaker 2: and you were eloquent, and you like were on top

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Speaker 2: of what you were saying.

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Speaker 3: Well, it was really hard that day because I was

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Speaker 3: told before I got there that there was a possibility

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Speaker 3: that you could amplify your voice a little bit.

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Speaker 4: I was misinformed, and so when I.

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Speaker 3: Got there, I was like, oh, I'll do a kind

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00:17:57,276 --> 00:18:02,516
Speaker 3: of punky set because it's all unamplified, like there's no effects,

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Speaker 3: and I thought it was like as raw as it

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00:18:03,996 --> 00:18:07,116
Speaker 3: could be. But it's really hard to hear yourself over

379
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Speaker 3: loud guitars and you know, and also in my songs,

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Speaker 3: I switch voices so much. That's what makes it really

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Speaker 3: hard when you're going from a softwaice to a loud

382
00:18:15,836 --> 00:18:17,916
Speaker 3: voice and then right back to a soft voice, because

383
00:18:18,476 --> 00:18:21,996
Speaker 3: if your sound isn't good enough, if you're yelling over

384
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Speaker 3: some instruments and then try to go back to the softways,

385
00:18:24,076 --> 00:18:28,356
Speaker 3: your softwaice doesn't come back nicely. It's like you scream

386
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Speaker 3: and you've kind of shot out your voice, you know,

387
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Speaker 3: and then you can't hit the soft which happened to

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Speaker 3: me on that performance quite.

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Speaker 4: A few times.

390
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Speaker 3: And I just had it like no, thank God, because

391
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Speaker 3: I was just going with it and I was just

392
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Speaker 3: doing silly stuff or just like you know, to try

393
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Speaker 3: to just roll with it. But it was hard, and

394
00:18:47,396 --> 00:18:50,116
Speaker 3: what happens is then when you go to speak after

395
00:18:50,236 --> 00:18:53,396
Speaker 3: yelling over stuff, your voice is not your normal voice.

396
00:18:53,436 --> 00:18:55,916
Speaker 3: So I listened to that and when I heard it,

397
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Speaker 3: I was like, oh, my talking voice is compromise, Like

398
00:18:58,156 --> 00:19:01,676
Speaker 3: it was this weird soft voice that's not my normal voice.

399
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Speaker 3: But it was because to be honest, in the I

400
00:19:04,996 --> 00:19:06,716
Speaker 3: was going to do a different song that was too

401
00:19:06,756 --> 00:19:10,676
Speaker 3: hard to do unamplified. So in the rehearsal, I did

402
00:19:10,716 --> 00:19:13,796
Speaker 3: it and shout out my voice before I even started.

403
00:19:14,076 --> 00:19:15,796
Speaker 3: So I did that whole thing with a voice that

404
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Speaker 3: was already kind of messed up.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break and then come back

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Speaker 1: with more from Lea Rose and Santy Gold. We're back

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Speaker 1: with more from Lea Rose and Santy Gold.

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Speaker 2: When did you start actually messing around with music? Like

409
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Speaker 2: how did that evolve for you? Did you go from

410
00:19:35,996 --> 00:19:39,076
Speaker 2: being a fan to try to like tinkering with instruments.

411
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Speaker 2: Did you start writing first?

412
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Speaker 3: I think when I was like nine, I was watching

413
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Speaker 3: break In one day and they were like making a

414
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Speaker 3: community center performance and it was like I was like,

415
00:19:52,676 --> 00:19:54,556
Speaker 3: I want to write a song. And I wrote a

416
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Speaker 3: song called City Streets. I sang it on another podcast

417
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Speaker 3: with Tariq with Black Thought. We both sang out like

418
00:20:02,276 --> 00:20:05,716
Speaker 3: early songs, like one verse, not even it was like

419
00:20:05,716 --> 00:20:07,596
Speaker 3: a chorus. But I was like, I want to I

420
00:20:07,596 --> 00:20:10,876
Speaker 3: want to write a song, you know. And then shortly

421
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Speaker 3: after that, I wanted to write raps. I was really

422
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Speaker 3: in a rap. I was listening to really, really all

423
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Speaker 3: kinds of rap. I remember being really in a two

424
00:20:18,956 --> 00:20:21,516
Speaker 3: live crew when I was eleven and writing down all

425
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Speaker 3: the lyrics and then telling everybody in the neighborhood.

426
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Speaker 2: I used to write down lyrics too. I think that's

427
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Speaker 2: a thing.

428
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Speaker 3: Set you were winding set. I remember ello cool Ja,

429
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Speaker 3: I Need Love. I had to do all the words.

430
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Speaker 3: I wrote down, every single word.

431
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Speaker 2: So sensual.

432
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Speaker 4: So I mean, I don't know why I like that

433
00:20:37,556 --> 00:20:38,196
Speaker 4: song so much.

434
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Speaker 3: But in the process of writing down lyrics, like transcribing lyrics,

435
00:20:43,636 --> 00:20:46,076
Speaker 3: and I guess I was just like kind of in

436
00:20:46,116 --> 00:20:48,356
Speaker 3: a way, you're studying when you're doing that, right. And

437
00:20:48,396 --> 00:20:51,276
Speaker 3: then by the time I was like twelve or thirteen,

438
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Speaker 3: I was just writing raps and I wanted to be like,

439
00:20:54,236 --> 00:20:56,156
Speaker 3: you know, Salt and Peppa or Queen the Tea for somebody.

440
00:20:56,116 --> 00:20:58,396
Speaker 3: I didn't want to actually be a professional. I just

441
00:20:58,396 --> 00:21:00,796
Speaker 3: wanted to be able to. I was like what we

442
00:21:00,836 --> 00:21:02,996
Speaker 3: called the tomboy back then, Like there was not a

443
00:21:02,996 --> 00:21:03,356
Speaker 3: lot of.

444
00:21:03,316 --> 00:21:06,836
Speaker 4: Girls who were that into that.

445
00:21:07,276 --> 00:21:10,076
Speaker 3: And I like being able to hang hang with the

446
00:21:10,076 --> 00:21:14,236
Speaker 3: boys and be able to surprise everybody by how I could.

447
00:21:13,996 --> 00:21:14,676
Speaker 4: Do it, you know.

448
00:21:14,716 --> 00:21:17,036
Speaker 3: So I totally try to freestyle and stuff. I was

449
00:21:17,036 --> 00:21:19,196
Speaker 3: never very good at freestyle, but I was better than

450
00:21:19,236 --> 00:21:20,356
Speaker 3: some of the guys that would do it. So.

451
00:21:20,716 --> 00:21:21,076
Speaker 2: Yeah.

452
00:21:21,236 --> 00:21:25,116
Speaker 3: Then by the time I was about fifteen, well, I

453
00:21:25,116 --> 00:21:28,796
Speaker 3: started taking guitar lessons first, and I would practice like

454
00:21:28,956 --> 00:21:31,116
Speaker 3: Led Zeppelin and Jimmy Hendrix and stuff.

455
00:21:31,556 --> 00:21:33,996
Speaker 4: I would never practice, though. I would practice a little.

456
00:21:33,796 --> 00:21:35,676
Speaker 3: Bit when I was like maybe fourteen or fifteen, but

457
00:21:35,996 --> 00:21:38,916
Speaker 3: I never I cannot play any instruments right now. I'm

458
00:21:38,916 --> 00:21:41,236
Speaker 3: so bad at instruments, but I just will never practice.

459
00:21:41,236 --> 00:21:43,596
Speaker 3: I'm not a practicer of instruments. Yeah, I'm not a

460
00:21:43,596 --> 00:21:47,396
Speaker 3: practicer of anything really. Well that's not true. But I

461
00:21:47,436 --> 00:21:50,356
Speaker 3: don't practice. I just do it often, you see what

462
00:21:50,356 --> 00:21:51,996
Speaker 3: I'm saying. So it's not like I'm going to sit

463
00:21:52,036 --> 00:21:54,076
Speaker 3: and practice. I just schedule it so that I have

464
00:21:54,156 --> 00:21:55,076
Speaker 3: to do it often.

465
00:21:55,516 --> 00:21:56,636
Speaker 2: Just think about it differently.

466
00:21:56,876 --> 00:21:59,596
Speaker 3: Yeah, But so I played a little electric guitar. I

467
00:21:59,636 --> 00:22:01,996
Speaker 3: took that for like maybe four years total. I took

468
00:22:02,036 --> 00:22:03,956
Speaker 3: it in college a little while. I played hand drums.

469
00:22:03,956 --> 00:22:09,796
Speaker 3: In college, I studied traditional Ghanaian drumming and hayesh and

470
00:22:10,116 --> 00:22:13,876
Speaker 3: a little Cuban and I actually gave hand drumming lessons

471
00:22:13,876 --> 00:22:17,916
Speaker 3: in college. Wow, And that definitely informed my sense of

472
00:22:17,956 --> 00:22:20,156
Speaker 3: like rhythm and syncopation and stuff like that.

473
00:22:20,796 --> 00:22:21,596
Speaker 4: And then as I.

474
00:22:21,556 --> 00:22:24,956
Speaker 3: Got older, I got into I chose bass over guitar.

475
00:22:24,996 --> 00:22:26,636
Speaker 3: And now not to say that I can really play bass,

476
00:22:26,636 --> 00:22:29,396
Speaker 3: but bass is just easier for me. And I write

477
00:22:29,396 --> 00:22:31,796
Speaker 3: on instruments, so that's the thing I can pick up,

478
00:22:32,196 --> 00:22:35,076
Speaker 3: you know. Obviously a keyboard. I can write on guitar,

479
00:22:35,796 --> 00:22:38,676
Speaker 3: I can write on bass, and I can write drum parts.

480
00:22:38,676 --> 00:22:40,396
Speaker 3: I can write horn parts, you know what I mean.

481
00:22:40,436 --> 00:22:42,276
Speaker 3: I could just I write in my head. I'll wake

482
00:22:42,356 --> 00:22:45,156
Speaker 3: up with a whole bassline that I can't play and

483
00:22:45,196 --> 00:22:47,076
Speaker 3: be like, I'll just sing it and be like, play this,

484
00:22:47,796 --> 00:22:48,156
Speaker 3: you know.

485
00:22:48,276 --> 00:22:50,076
Speaker 2: And how do you do? It's original and it's not

486
00:22:50,236 --> 00:22:53,156
Speaker 2: something that's like stored in your subconscious.

487
00:22:53,196 --> 00:22:55,516
Speaker 4: Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I have to ask a whole

488
00:22:55,516 --> 00:22:57,116
Speaker 4: lot of people, have you heard this before?

489
00:22:57,916 --> 00:22:59,996
Speaker 3: I remember when I did the song with the Beastie

490
00:22:59,996 --> 00:23:03,916
Speaker 3: Boys Don't Play No Game, I swore that was an original.

491
00:23:03,996 --> 00:23:06,636
Speaker 3: I was like, nobody's heard this before, nobody's heard and

492
00:23:06,636 --> 00:23:10,876
Speaker 3: everyone's like no. But sometimes it's just so weird the

493
00:23:10,956 --> 00:23:14,356
Speaker 3: place that things come from. For me, honestly, a lot

494
00:23:14,436 --> 00:23:16,916
Speaker 3: of things come in between being awaken the sleep.

495
00:23:17,276 --> 00:23:18,716
Speaker 4: That's where a lot of my ideas come.

496
00:23:18,956 --> 00:23:22,716
Speaker 3: I get a lot of visions, I've had prophetic dreams,

497
00:23:23,196 --> 00:23:26,636
Speaker 3: but a lot of my creative stuff comes during between

498
00:23:26,676 --> 00:23:27,556
Speaker 3: sleep and waking.

499
00:23:28,556 --> 00:23:30,836
Speaker 2: So do you keep a journal by like on your

500
00:23:30,836 --> 00:23:32,116
Speaker 2: bedside table.

501
00:23:33,036 --> 00:23:35,116
Speaker 4: I don't really keep a journal anymore.

502
00:23:35,396 --> 00:23:37,356
Speaker 3: It was like for about ten or fifteen years, like

503
00:23:37,356 --> 00:23:39,516
Speaker 3: probably from about fifteen to twenty five that I really

504
00:23:39,596 --> 00:23:40,236
Speaker 3: kept a journal.

505
00:23:40,676 --> 00:23:42,516
Speaker 4: And then I.

506
00:23:42,476 --> 00:23:44,236
Speaker 3: Think when my life got really busy and I was

507
00:23:44,236 --> 00:23:47,596
Speaker 3: doing a lot of writing for a career, I stopped

508
00:23:48,596 --> 00:23:50,716
Speaker 3: and I missed it. But there's no way now I

509
00:23:50,716 --> 00:23:51,596
Speaker 3: could keep a journal.

510
00:23:51,916 --> 00:23:52,476
Speaker 4: But what I do.

511
00:23:52,596 --> 00:23:54,756
Speaker 3: I mean, I have so much creative writing in my

512
00:23:54,836 --> 00:23:58,436
Speaker 3: life now that I think that if you listen to

513
00:23:58,476 --> 00:24:01,596
Speaker 3: any of my albums, they are a journal of exactly

514
00:24:01,676 --> 00:24:05,516
Speaker 3: what I was going through. And then in my lyric

515
00:24:05,596 --> 00:24:09,996
Speaker 3: books you'll find an occasional poem or occasional journal or

516
00:24:10,076 --> 00:24:12,916
Speaker 3: when I was touring. Actually, I would try to keep

517
00:24:12,956 --> 00:24:16,236
Speaker 3: a journal sometimes, Like I remember one time flying from

518
00:24:16,276 --> 00:24:19,556
Speaker 3: Australia back to the States and there being no television

519
00:24:19,596 --> 00:24:21,916
Speaker 3: on the airplane. I have no idea why, but I

520
00:24:22,596 --> 00:24:25,916
Speaker 3: journaled for like twelve hours. I wrote down my entire trip,

521
00:24:25,916 --> 00:24:27,876
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like, so I'll do it

522
00:24:27,916 --> 00:24:31,396
Speaker 3: in odd moments, but I don't. But if there's something

523
00:24:31,476 --> 00:24:33,516
Speaker 3: that hits and I know I need to write it down,

524
00:24:33,676 --> 00:24:35,436
Speaker 3: like I will, I will find a book and write

525
00:24:35,436 --> 00:24:35,676
Speaker 3: it down.

526
00:24:36,196 --> 00:24:39,036
Speaker 2: M Yeah, it sounds like it's really important. It's like

527
00:24:39,036 --> 00:24:40,636
Speaker 2: a common thread throughout your life.

528
00:24:40,836 --> 00:24:42,396
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is. It is.

529
00:24:42,436 --> 00:24:44,836
Speaker 3: And also just going back and reading some of my

530
00:24:44,876 --> 00:24:47,796
Speaker 3: journals from I was little, it just it's interesting on

531
00:24:47,916 --> 00:24:51,476
Speaker 3: how it helps form the way that I think about things,

532
00:24:51,516 --> 00:24:52,916
Speaker 3: or the way that I talk about things.

533
00:24:52,876 --> 00:24:56,716
Speaker 4: Or the way I kind of mull over ideas and I'm.

534
00:24:56,516 --> 00:25:00,236
Speaker 3: So detailed and like it's great that I could talk

535
00:25:00,276 --> 00:25:01,956
Speaker 3: to myself in that way, you know.

536
00:25:02,236 --> 00:25:02,956
Speaker 1: Yeah.

537
00:25:03,076 --> 00:25:05,876
Speaker 2: So when you were starting to get into music and starting,

538
00:25:06,036 --> 00:25:09,076
Speaker 2: you know, like taking your guitar lessons, were your parents

539
00:25:09,116 --> 00:25:10,356
Speaker 2: supportive of that?

540
00:25:11,396 --> 00:25:13,756
Speaker 3: Yeah, they didn't care much about my guitar lessons and

541
00:25:13,796 --> 00:25:16,076
Speaker 3: actually they helped me. Like I got it in SP

542
00:25:16,116 --> 00:25:18,836
Speaker 3: twelve hundred when I was about fifteen, and they let

543
00:25:18,876 --> 00:25:22,516
Speaker 3: me get that, and they my dad was super into music,

544
00:25:22,636 --> 00:25:25,036
Speaker 3: like he's the one who got me into music. He

545
00:25:25,156 --> 00:25:28,436
Speaker 3: had the best music collection and encouraged us to collect

546
00:25:28,516 --> 00:25:32,036
Speaker 3: music very early. My sister had an amazing record collection

547
00:25:32,116 --> 00:25:33,916
Speaker 3: by the time she was fourteen, which was great because

548
00:25:33,916 --> 00:25:37,876
Speaker 3: it's my dad had like every black music ever made

549
00:25:38,276 --> 00:25:42,836
Speaker 3: and from like whether it's Jamaican, African American, like he

550
00:25:42,916 --> 00:25:44,876
Speaker 3: had everything. But then my sister took it further and

551
00:25:44,916 --> 00:25:49,196
Speaker 3: she had like rock and punk and fun Boy three

552
00:25:49,356 --> 00:25:50,916
Speaker 3: and Suzanne Vega.

553
00:25:50,716 --> 00:25:53,156
Speaker 4: And like, you know, just like weird stuff that my.

554
00:25:53,196 --> 00:25:55,516
Speaker 3: Dad never would have listened to, the Smiths and you know,

555
00:25:55,516 --> 00:25:59,076
Speaker 3: stuff like that. So I got all this amazing music

556
00:25:59,196 --> 00:26:01,116
Speaker 3: education before I was even eleven years old.

557
00:26:01,356 --> 00:26:02,716
Speaker 2: And then my met your older sister.

558
00:26:02,916 --> 00:26:04,876
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's like three years older than me, and she

559
00:26:05,036 --> 00:26:07,156
Speaker 3: was going to Bad Brain shows when I was twelve

560
00:26:07,196 --> 00:26:07,916
Speaker 3: and coming back.

561
00:26:07,836 --> 00:26:09,596
Speaker 4: Dripping, and I was like, who are they? You know?

562
00:26:10,076 --> 00:26:11,436
Speaker 4: And what you know? What is this?

563
00:26:11,556 --> 00:26:14,756
Speaker 3: And I listen and so I just they really taught

564
00:26:14,796 --> 00:26:18,196
Speaker 3: me about music, and my dad took us to see shows,

565
00:26:18,196 --> 00:26:19,476
Speaker 3: like he took me to see James Brown.

566
00:26:19,996 --> 00:26:20,596
Speaker 4: I was too young.

567
00:26:20,596 --> 00:26:22,956
Speaker 3: I don't even remember, but I just I know the

568
00:26:22,996 --> 00:26:24,636
Speaker 3: story that I said Dad was wrong with his leg

569
00:26:24,676 --> 00:26:25,996
Speaker 3: and he said, oh he got sould.

570
00:26:27,276 --> 00:26:29,356
Speaker 4: I know that, Like that's the story. That's the only

571
00:26:29,796 --> 00:26:30,876
Speaker 4: the two line story.

572
00:26:31,876 --> 00:26:33,916
Speaker 3: I went to see Fela Kuti with him when I

573
00:26:33,996 --> 00:26:37,076
Speaker 3: was seven. He took me see Nina Simone Wow. And

574
00:26:37,156 --> 00:26:39,396
Speaker 3: so that exposure. And he used to take us to

575
00:26:39,436 --> 00:26:42,276
Speaker 3: record stores every Saturday and we could choose the record.

576
00:26:42,556 --> 00:26:44,996
Speaker 3: He taught me to buy music and to study music

577
00:26:45,116 --> 00:26:47,076
Speaker 3: kind of, you know, and so he was always.

578
00:26:46,836 --> 00:26:50,236
Speaker 4: Supportive until well. And also he was good.

579
00:26:50,116 --> 00:26:54,116
Speaker 3: Friends with Kenny Gamble from Gamble and Huck from Philly Sound.

580
00:26:54,236 --> 00:26:57,676
Speaker 3: And so I interned with Kenny when I was sixteen,

581
00:26:57,876 --> 00:26:59,316
Speaker 3: and you know, got to know Kenny. And then my

582
00:26:59,356 --> 00:27:02,276
Speaker 3: dad's like, my dad would have never encouraged me to

583
00:27:02,356 --> 00:27:04,676
Speaker 3: be a singer, because I remember one time I was

584
00:27:04,716 --> 00:27:06,756
Speaker 3: like dad and I never wanted to be singing. I

585
00:27:06,756 --> 00:27:08,516
Speaker 3: had a solo when I was fifteen. It was a disaster.

586
00:27:09,116 --> 00:27:11,356
Speaker 3: It was a disaster to me. My mom recently told

587
00:27:11,396 --> 00:27:13,476
Speaker 3: me that it wasn't a disaster like last week. She

588
00:27:13,516 --> 00:27:16,716
Speaker 3: told me it wasn't a disaster. But after the show,

589
00:27:16,756 --> 00:27:18,916
Speaker 3: they said, how did you get the solo? That's all

590
00:27:18,956 --> 00:27:19,556
Speaker 3: they said to me.

591
00:27:20,036 --> 00:27:22,356
Speaker 2: Like a school show, like a like a talent show

592
00:27:22,436 --> 00:27:22,876
Speaker 2: type thing.

593
00:27:22,996 --> 00:27:25,436
Speaker 3: No, it was something I did not sign up for.

594
00:27:26,116 --> 00:27:29,436
Speaker 3: I was in the chorus class and he picked me

595
00:27:29,516 --> 00:27:31,636
Speaker 3: for the solo and I was so upset about it

596
00:27:31,956 --> 00:27:35,516
Speaker 3: because I didn't want the solo and I was too

597
00:27:35,596 --> 00:27:38,196
Speaker 3: nervous to sing in front of people and I was

598
00:27:38,236 --> 00:27:41,796
Speaker 3: like shaking and hiding behind the page, and so it

599
00:27:41,836 --> 00:27:43,996
Speaker 3: was traumatic and I was like, I never ever want

600
00:27:44,036 --> 00:27:45,156
Speaker 3: to sing in front of people again.

601
00:27:45,596 --> 00:27:46,716
Speaker 4: And then and then.

602
00:27:46,716 --> 00:27:49,156
Speaker 3: Because I was so nervous, the feedback was like oh

603
00:27:49,196 --> 00:27:52,556
Speaker 3: that poor girl, or like or like how did you

604
00:27:52,596 --> 00:27:54,436
Speaker 3: get the solo? And I was like, fuck, I'm never

605
00:27:54,516 --> 00:27:56,716
Speaker 3: singing again. So that's what I was carrying with me

606
00:27:56,756 --> 00:27:58,516
Speaker 3: into my music career. And I was like, I think

607
00:27:58,516 --> 00:28:00,756
Speaker 3: I want to own a record company. And so I

608
00:28:00,756 --> 00:28:04,916
Speaker 3: started interning at Sony and then my dad was like, hey,

609
00:28:04,956 --> 00:28:06,716
Speaker 3: why don't you be a songwriter like Kenny?

610
00:28:07,316 --> 00:28:09,636
Speaker 4: And I was like yeah, maybe, and so.

611
00:28:09,876 --> 00:28:14,556
Speaker 3: I started working at Epic Records. Actually after my junior

612
00:28:14,676 --> 00:28:17,836
Speaker 3: year in college, but I finished early and graduated early,

613
00:28:17,916 --> 00:28:21,476
Speaker 3: and I was working at EPIC and I signed Reese

614
00:28:21,516 --> 00:28:23,716
Speaker 3: to a demo deal. So I was like an an

615
00:28:23,796 --> 00:28:25,676
Speaker 3: R assistant and I signed her to a demo deal,

616
00:28:25,836 --> 00:28:26,436
Speaker 3: and I was trying to.

617
00:28:26,756 --> 00:28:29,236
Speaker 2: Was like a big deal for like an an R assistant.

618
00:28:29,356 --> 00:28:30,356
Speaker 4: It was, it was.

619
00:28:30,956 --> 00:28:33,676
Speaker 3: And I was trying to find producers to make music

620
00:28:33,716 --> 00:28:36,196
Speaker 3: that I wanted to be totally different than anything out there,

621
00:28:36,236 --> 00:28:38,436
Speaker 3: and I couldn't really find the right team.

622
00:28:38,516 --> 00:28:40,796
Speaker 4: So I started writing the songs myself and that's what happened.

623
00:28:41,356 --> 00:28:43,556
Speaker 3: And the head of the department, who I was really

624
00:28:43,556 --> 00:28:45,756
Speaker 3: close with, he was just like, it's kind of a

625
00:28:45,796 --> 00:28:49,036
Speaker 3: red flag that you're writing songs yourself, and I was like.

626
00:28:49,156 --> 00:28:51,276
Speaker 4: Yeah, but then he heard him and he's like, actually,

627
00:28:51,276 --> 00:28:51,676
Speaker 4: they're good.

628
00:28:51,716 --> 00:28:53,676
Speaker 3: Does she want to be in groove theory, Like totally

629
00:28:53,676 --> 00:28:55,596
Speaker 3: didn't really get that I was trying to do something

630
00:28:55,636 --> 00:28:56,636
Speaker 3: completely different.

631
00:28:56,636 --> 00:28:57,996
Speaker 4: I didn't want her to be in some like R

632
00:28:58,036 --> 00:29:00,116
Speaker 4: and B group, and so we left.

633
00:29:00,276 --> 00:29:01,796
Speaker 3: I left there by that time, I didn't want to

634
00:29:01,796 --> 00:29:04,156
Speaker 3: work there because everything coming I was in the black

635
00:29:04,236 --> 00:29:04,956
Speaker 3: music department.

636
00:29:05,356 --> 00:29:06,396
Speaker 4: Black music is.

637
00:29:06,316 --> 00:29:10,196
Speaker 3: A very specific set of you know, traits, and none

638
00:29:10,236 --> 00:29:12,436
Speaker 3: of which I was into, and I mean I was into,

639
00:29:12,556 --> 00:29:14,356
Speaker 3: but I want to do something that pushed and that

640
00:29:14,396 --> 00:29:17,316
Speaker 3: didn't fit, and so I was like, let's leave here.

641
00:29:17,396 --> 00:29:20,356
Speaker 3: And I ended up executive producing and writing that record

642
00:29:20,396 --> 00:29:22,516
Speaker 3: and signing her to MCA.

643
00:29:22,876 --> 00:29:24,476
Speaker 4: So those were the first songs.

644
00:29:24,156 --> 00:29:25,756
Speaker 2: That I wrote. I feel like, if that's all you

645
00:29:25,796 --> 00:29:27,476
Speaker 2: did in your career, that would be a big deal.

646
00:29:27,756 --> 00:29:29,516
Speaker 3: It was a big deal, and it was early too.

647
00:29:29,556 --> 00:29:31,676
Speaker 3: I was like, you know, twenty one or something like that.

648
00:29:31,716 --> 00:29:35,196
Speaker 3: But when I started that and it was a crash

649
00:29:35,236 --> 00:29:36,956
Speaker 3: course and a lot of things like dealing with the

650
00:29:37,116 --> 00:29:39,796
Speaker 3: music industry and oh yeah, all kinds of stuff.

651
00:29:40,036 --> 00:29:41,796
Speaker 2: So at that point, you still didn't know you wanted

652
00:29:41,796 --> 00:29:42,516
Speaker 2: to be an artist.

653
00:29:42,716 --> 00:29:44,436
Speaker 3: No, I didn't. I didn't want to be an artist.

654
00:29:44,476 --> 00:29:45,956
Speaker 3: I knew I didn't want to be an artist. When

655
00:29:45,956 --> 00:29:47,756
Speaker 3: I had to show her how to sing a harmony

656
00:29:47,876 --> 00:29:51,916
Speaker 3: or something, I would sing it so bad. And Doc McKinney,

657
00:29:51,916 --> 00:29:56,476
Speaker 3: who he actually produced like The Weekend and stuff, he

658
00:29:56,676 --> 00:29:59,356
Speaker 3: was the he produces Theough back then, which is how

659
00:29:59,356 --> 00:30:01,956
Speaker 3: I found him, and then he ended up doing The

660
00:30:01,956 --> 00:30:02,636
Speaker 3: Weekend now.

661
00:30:02,996 --> 00:30:05,276
Speaker 4: But he used to be like, Sadi, can you just

662
00:30:05,316 --> 00:30:06,196
Speaker 4: sing it for real?

663
00:30:06,756 --> 00:30:09,676
Speaker 3: Because like he I mean everybody had kind of already

664
00:30:09,676 --> 00:30:12,836
Speaker 3: glimpsed that I could actually carry a tune and that

665
00:30:12,956 --> 00:30:15,716
Speaker 3: I was doing it so bad for no reason. And

666
00:30:15,756 --> 00:30:17,116
Speaker 3: he'd be like, can you just can you just sing

667
00:30:17,156 --> 00:30:18,796
Speaker 3: it like the way that it goes, so she can

668
00:30:19,236 --> 00:30:19,916
Speaker 3: as I would.

669
00:30:20,076 --> 00:30:23,316
Speaker 4: And so then after that I was like, well, I

670
00:30:23,356 --> 00:30:25,316
Speaker 4: really didn't. It didn't come out how it was in

671
00:30:25,316 --> 00:30:25,596
Speaker 4: my head.

672
00:30:25,636 --> 00:30:27,156
Speaker 3: So I was like, I'm gonna go start this punk

673
00:30:27,236 --> 00:30:28,956
Speaker 3: band and I'm this sing but I'm never going to

674
00:30:29,036 --> 00:30:29,876
Speaker 3: perform ever.

675
00:30:30,276 --> 00:30:32,196
Speaker 4: That was. That was the next stage.

676
00:30:32,276 --> 00:30:33,756
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't want to stand in people,

677
00:30:34,076 --> 00:30:35,236
Speaker 3: in front of people and sing.

678
00:30:36,156 --> 00:30:38,076
Speaker 2: How did you make that change? Because now you said

679
00:30:38,116 --> 00:30:40,676
Speaker 2: you have no reservations about standing up in front of

680
00:30:40,676 --> 00:30:41,716
Speaker 2: a crowd and performing.

681
00:30:42,516 --> 00:30:44,636
Speaker 3: Well, I did my first show in Philly and I

682
00:30:44,636 --> 00:30:48,516
Speaker 3: only invited my friends, so it was a loving environment.

683
00:30:48,996 --> 00:30:52,636
Speaker 3: I had a reverb pedal that I put my microphone

684
00:30:52,716 --> 00:30:55,356
Speaker 3: through and I was cranking it, cranking it so you

685
00:30:55,356 --> 00:30:57,396
Speaker 3: couldn't really hear what I was doing. I put all

686
00:30:57,436 --> 00:31:00,156
Speaker 3: these effects on it and I was so goofy and

687
00:31:00,196 --> 00:31:03,436
Speaker 3: like we videotaped it and it was like really fun,

688
00:31:04,036 --> 00:31:06,876
Speaker 3: really fun, And so because it was so much fun,

689
00:31:06,996 --> 00:31:08,276
Speaker 3: I was like, I would do this again, So I

690
00:31:08,316 --> 00:31:10,756
Speaker 3: started this night called Clap. Now I had moved to Philly.

691
00:31:11,036 --> 00:31:12,396
Speaker 3: When I wrote the Rece record, I was in New

692
00:31:12,476 --> 00:31:14,276
Speaker 3: York and there was a lot of attention around that

693
00:31:14,396 --> 00:31:17,436
Speaker 3: record and even starting to get attention around me as

694
00:31:17,476 --> 00:31:19,276
Speaker 3: a songwriter. So I moved to Philly to start this

695
00:31:19,356 --> 00:31:22,836
Speaker 3: band away from anybody who knew me as that and

696
00:31:22,876 --> 00:31:24,956
Speaker 3: sort of hit out in Philly while I figured out

697
00:31:24,996 --> 00:31:27,556
Speaker 3: how to sing and write songs for myself. But I

698
00:31:27,596 --> 00:31:29,916
Speaker 3: started a night called the Clap with rich Nichols.

699
00:31:29,596 --> 00:31:30,556
Speaker 4: Who managed the Roots.

700
00:31:31,156 --> 00:31:33,876
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was like a band night, and we

701
00:31:33,916 --> 00:31:35,476
Speaker 3: had all kinds of people come through, even like my

702
00:31:35,556 --> 00:31:36,956
Speaker 3: Chemical Romance I think did some of.

703
00:31:36,956 --> 00:31:39,436
Speaker 4: Their earliest shows cool.

704
00:31:39,636 --> 00:31:41,836
Speaker 3: And so we would just play every week at this

705
00:31:41,876 --> 00:31:44,196
Speaker 3: place called the Fire in Philly, and I kind of

706
00:31:44,396 --> 00:31:46,116
Speaker 3: got over it. I learned how to use my voice

707
00:31:46,276 --> 00:31:49,116
Speaker 3: as like, do all kinds of fun stuff with my voice,

708
00:31:49,236 --> 00:31:52,876
Speaker 3: and so that I wasn't embarrassed about singing anymore.

709
00:31:53,116 --> 00:31:55,276
Speaker 4: And I will say to this.

710
00:31:55,276 --> 00:31:58,076
Speaker 3: Day performing in my band Stiffed the Punk Stuff was

711
00:31:58,116 --> 00:32:01,076
Speaker 3: the most freeing and fun performances I've ever done in

712
00:32:01,076 --> 00:32:04,476
Speaker 3: my life. Like it was no choreography, no technical like

713
00:32:04,996 --> 00:32:08,916
Speaker 3: you know, no sinking track to vocals and this, no

714
00:32:09,236 --> 00:32:13,396
Speaker 3: dancers like it was just pure free energy. And so

715
00:32:13,556 --> 00:32:17,916
Speaker 3: that was something that I really learned that was so magical,

716
00:32:17,956 --> 00:32:19,396
Speaker 3: and I really I learned.

717
00:32:19,196 --> 00:32:19,916
Speaker 4: That I loved it.

718
00:32:20,316 --> 00:32:24,036
Speaker 3: Yeah, And as far as my parents, there there were

719
00:32:24,076 --> 00:32:29,956
Speaker 3: times between putting out the race record to Stiff where

720
00:32:29,956 --> 00:32:31,836
Speaker 3: my dad was like, Okay, it's been like ten years,

721
00:32:31,876 --> 00:32:32,836
Speaker 3: when are you getting a real job.

722
00:32:32,876 --> 00:32:33,596
Speaker 2: That's what he'd be.

723
00:32:34,396 --> 00:32:38,036
Speaker 3: He would be supportive, like he collected every article for

724
00:32:38,076 --> 00:32:40,556
Speaker 3: Stiff and kept it in a book front center at

725
00:32:40,636 --> 00:32:42,996
Speaker 3: every Stiff show. But then it'd be times where I

726
00:32:43,036 --> 00:32:45,356
Speaker 3: was like broken. He'd be like, when are you getting

727
00:32:45,396 --> 00:32:45,916
Speaker 3: a real job.

728
00:32:46,156 --> 00:32:49,276
Speaker 4: So there was like because he was I think an

729
00:32:49,396 --> 00:32:50,596
Speaker 4: artist at heart, but he didn't.

730
00:32:50,636 --> 00:32:53,076
Speaker 3: My dad's from the projects, and he like, you know,

731
00:32:53,196 --> 00:32:55,556
Speaker 3: he ended up going to like pen law school and

732
00:32:55,996 --> 00:32:58,916
Speaker 3: becoming a lawyer and doing really well for himself, but

733
00:32:58,996 --> 00:33:01,516
Speaker 3: he didn't have the freedom he thought to be an artist,

734
00:33:02,076 --> 00:33:04,516
Speaker 3: economic freedom, and so he was torn because he was

735
00:33:04,556 --> 00:33:07,876
Speaker 3: watching me doing kind of what he probably could have

736
00:33:07,916 --> 00:33:10,916
Speaker 3: been into. But then he also had that part where

737
00:33:10,956 --> 00:33:13,036
Speaker 3: there was like I'm not going to pay your bills

738
00:33:13,076 --> 00:33:15,356
Speaker 3: like you got to pay your bills, like you don't

739
00:33:15,356 --> 00:33:18,036
Speaker 3: get to do this. So and then he passed away

740
00:33:18,076 --> 00:33:22,796
Speaker 3: before before Santy Gold, So I know, but my mom didn't.

741
00:33:22,836 --> 00:33:25,076
Speaker 3: And my mom, I think it's kind of just like fascinated,

742
00:33:25,276 --> 00:33:28,556
Speaker 3: you know. I just I just I mean, she doesn't

743
00:33:28,596 --> 00:33:29,956
Speaker 3: say that much about it, but you can tell she's

744
00:33:30,076 --> 00:33:33,076
Speaker 3: very proud and she's you know, she's kind of she

745
00:33:33,156 --> 00:33:34,836
Speaker 3: never came to the shows like my dad that was

746
00:33:34,876 --> 00:33:38,156
Speaker 3: his thing. My mom came to some My mom came

747
00:33:38,196 --> 00:33:39,036
Speaker 3: to some shows.

748
00:33:39,196 --> 00:33:41,996
Speaker 2: You know. Is it like a personality type difference, like

749
00:33:42,076 --> 00:33:42,836
Speaker 2: less creative.

750
00:33:43,316 --> 00:33:46,876
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's not as creative. She's a psychiatrist. I've been

751
00:33:46,916 --> 00:33:49,476
Speaker 3: interviewing her because I'm actually writing a memoir that goes

752
00:33:49,516 --> 00:33:51,396
Speaker 3: back for generations of women in my family to my

753
00:33:51,436 --> 00:33:52,076
Speaker 3: great grandmother.

754
00:33:52,316 --> 00:33:52,756
Speaker 2: Wow.

755
00:33:52,836 --> 00:33:54,236
Speaker 4: So I've been interviewing my mom a lot.

756
00:33:54,276 --> 00:33:56,596
Speaker 3: And we actually just had a conversation that she used

757
00:33:56,596 --> 00:34:00,116
Speaker 3: to be a musician and in the marching band and

758
00:34:00,156 --> 00:34:04,276
Speaker 3: she could read music and so she actually was into music.

759
00:34:04,996 --> 00:34:07,036
Speaker 3: But we've always been like, oh, mom's not that into

760
00:34:07,116 --> 00:34:08,956
Speaker 3: music because she didn't have a record collection.

761
00:34:09,356 --> 00:34:11,956
Speaker 4: But she's like, well dad had the records that I liked.

762
00:34:12,116 --> 00:34:12,756
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.

763
00:34:13,636 --> 00:34:16,636
Speaker 3: So she is into music, but it's just very different,

764
00:34:16,836 --> 00:34:19,756
Speaker 3: you know, she's not like front and cineature show.

765
00:34:20,236 --> 00:34:22,636
Speaker 2: Has she given you any helpful advice from like a

766
00:34:22,676 --> 00:34:25,396
Speaker 2: psychiatrist perspective about your career?

767
00:34:26,076 --> 00:34:30,196
Speaker 4: No, my mom. No, Everyone's like, what's it like to

768
00:34:30,236 --> 00:34:31,756
Speaker 4: have a psychiatrist? What is it like?

769
00:34:32,156 --> 00:34:35,036
Speaker 3: It's like having a country mom from Mississippi who is

770
00:34:35,196 --> 00:34:37,076
Speaker 3: your mom and totally.

771
00:34:36,676 --> 00:34:40,116
Speaker 4: Not a psychiatrist, you know.

772
00:34:40,236 --> 00:34:41,836
Speaker 3: I mean, my mom is smart, you know, I'm not

773
00:34:41,836 --> 00:34:45,116
Speaker 3: saying that, like she's very smart, and but I don't know,

774
00:34:45,236 --> 00:34:47,516
Speaker 3: just it did not apply to her kids at all.

775
00:34:47,596 --> 00:34:50,916
Speaker 2: Like she doesn't analyze you, No, but.

776
00:34:50,876 --> 00:34:53,756
Speaker 4: I think psychiatry is for her. And her practice was

777
00:34:53,876 --> 00:34:55,036
Speaker 4: very different from psychology.

778
00:34:55,116 --> 00:34:57,796
Speaker 3: So she did a lot of work, especially later in

779
00:34:57,836 --> 00:35:00,996
Speaker 3: her career, she did a lot of like community facing things,

780
00:35:00,996 --> 00:35:02,996
Speaker 3: like she worked in prisons for a couple of years,

781
00:35:03,156 --> 00:35:05,716
Speaker 3: not a couple for several years. She worked in like

782
00:35:05,716 --> 00:35:09,076
Speaker 3: community health centers and really was dealing with like people

783
00:35:09,196 --> 00:35:12,316
Speaker 3: with severe mental illness and medication and stuff like that too.

784
00:35:12,476 --> 00:35:15,836
Speaker 4: Wow, So there wasn't that much of that happening with me.

785
00:35:16,156 --> 00:35:17,116
Speaker 4: For my mom's way.

786
00:35:17,756 --> 00:35:19,876
Speaker 2: That's a heavy job though to come home and have

787
00:35:19,996 --> 00:35:21,596
Speaker 2: to also be a parent.

788
00:35:22,396 --> 00:35:22,716
Speaker 4: Well.

789
00:35:23,116 --> 00:35:25,516
Speaker 3: Even crazier, my mom went to medical school after she

790
00:35:25,556 --> 00:35:26,276
Speaker 3: had three kids.

791
00:35:26,516 --> 00:35:26,836
Speaker 2: Wow.

792
00:35:26,996 --> 00:35:29,276
Speaker 3: When I was in first grade, my mom started medical school.

793
00:35:29,436 --> 00:35:31,916
Speaker 3: So she did four years of medical school and four

794
00:35:31,996 --> 00:35:34,076
Speaker 3: years of residency while raising three children.

795
00:35:34,156 --> 00:35:34,876
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

796
00:35:35,196 --> 00:35:37,196
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was it was a lot, for sure.

797
00:35:37,516 --> 00:35:39,956
Speaker 2: It's interesting that your mom had three and you have three.

798
00:35:40,316 --> 00:35:42,196
Speaker 3: I know, and I kind of wanted three too, but

799
00:35:42,476 --> 00:35:43,836
Speaker 3: I didn't think I was going to have three because

800
00:35:43,836 --> 00:35:44,796
Speaker 3: I had kids pretty late.

801
00:35:45,236 --> 00:35:46,876
Speaker 4: But then I had twins and it.

802
00:35:46,796 --> 00:35:52,156
Speaker 3: Was kind of twins, like, I don't know, man, it's

803
00:35:52,276 --> 00:35:54,196
Speaker 3: kind of like being in a blender.

804
00:35:55,036 --> 00:35:56,836
Speaker 4: Oh.

805
00:35:57,236 --> 00:35:59,316
Speaker 2: I've just been thinking about for like a lot of

806
00:35:59,396 --> 00:36:03,436
Speaker 2: us like when we were kids, Like we were just

807
00:36:03,556 --> 00:36:06,476
Speaker 2: left alone so much more. And you say, you know,

808
00:36:06,596 --> 00:36:09,836
Speaker 2: your your mom had three kids, she was in school school,

809
00:36:10,476 --> 00:36:12,556
Speaker 2: and there's something to be said about that because you

810
00:36:12,636 --> 00:36:14,276
Speaker 2: become so much more self reliant.

811
00:36:15,356 --> 00:36:19,876
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's something great about making your kids figure things

812
00:36:19,876 --> 00:36:23,636
Speaker 3: out on their own, yeah, and do things for themselves.

813
00:36:23,796 --> 00:36:24,236
Speaker 2: Yeah.

814
00:36:24,316 --> 00:36:27,396
Speaker 3: Where I'm so glad that that I had the experiences

815
00:36:27,396 --> 00:36:29,756
Speaker 3: of like having to figure things out, because I did.

816
00:36:29,836 --> 00:36:32,196
Speaker 3: I did figure them out, and I'm very capable now,

817
00:36:32,236 --> 00:36:34,636
Speaker 3: and I think when I think the way that we

818
00:36:34,796 --> 00:36:38,036
Speaker 3: parent now or that you know, it's sort of it's

819
00:36:38,076 --> 00:36:42,756
Speaker 3: like trying to make everything so nice and smooth and easy,

820
00:36:42,796 --> 00:36:45,836
Speaker 3: but like adversity really does build character.

821
00:36:46,876 --> 00:36:48,836
Speaker 1: We have to take one last quick break and then

822
00:36:48,876 --> 00:36:51,956
Speaker 1: we'll come back with more from Lea Rose and Santy Gold.

823
00:36:56,236 --> 00:36:58,996
Speaker 1: We're back with the rest of Leo Rose's conversation with

824
00:36:59,396 --> 00:37:00,076
Speaker 1: Santy Gold.

825
00:37:01,276 --> 00:37:03,156
Speaker 2: I was thinking about it because I was listening to an

826
00:37:03,156 --> 00:37:07,356
Speaker 2: interview with some young artists and I just wasn't feeling

827
00:37:08,156 --> 00:37:12,276
Speaker 2: the edge and the grit from them, and I was like,

828
00:37:12,316 --> 00:37:15,356
Speaker 2: I think it's because all these kids were overparented.

829
00:37:16,116 --> 00:37:16,596
Speaker 4: I don't know.

830
00:37:16,716 --> 00:37:20,036
Speaker 3: I mean, there's so many terrible parents out there, and

831
00:37:20,076 --> 00:37:22,356
Speaker 3: there's so many people who were not overparented, who were

832
00:37:22,516 --> 00:37:28,356
Speaker 3: just totally neglected and abused and didn't have anybody too,

833
00:37:28,636 --> 00:37:30,716
Speaker 3: you know. So there's so many there's such a vast

834
00:37:30,716 --> 00:37:35,956
Speaker 3: spectrum of the parenting that people received. And I think

835
00:37:35,996 --> 00:37:39,356
Speaker 3: that if I were to say was wrong with art

836
00:37:39,436 --> 00:37:41,756
Speaker 3: and artists today, it would have more to do with

837
00:37:42,036 --> 00:37:47,916
Speaker 3: values and social media and the idea that you can

838
00:37:48,036 --> 00:37:52,596
Speaker 3: have overnight success for no talent, and that there's no

839
00:37:52,716 --> 00:37:55,956
Speaker 3: dues paying and that you are entitled to whatever. Somebody

840
00:37:55,956 --> 00:37:59,236
Speaker 3: who's worked for twenty years should be yours instantly. I

841
00:37:59,276 --> 00:38:04,796
Speaker 3: think that that has created a generation of entitlement and

842
00:38:04,956 --> 00:38:09,316
Speaker 3: also the values, like people don't value art, So art

843
00:38:09,396 --> 00:38:12,556
Speaker 3: is going to change because even.

844
00:38:12,356 --> 00:38:13,996
Speaker 4: For me, honestly, like.

845
00:38:15,516 --> 00:38:16,996
Speaker 3: I hate to say it, but I don't really give

846
00:38:16,996 --> 00:38:19,356
Speaker 3: a fuck anymore right now, right now today, I'm going

847
00:38:19,436 --> 00:38:21,876
Speaker 3: to tell you that the effort that I put into

848
00:38:21,916 --> 00:38:25,476
Speaker 3: my art is undervalued, and I don't really want to

849
00:38:25,476 --> 00:38:27,996
Speaker 3: put that effort in anymore. That's where I'm at, and

850
00:38:28,036 --> 00:38:30,196
Speaker 3: I think that that's what's going to continue to happen

851
00:38:30,556 --> 00:38:33,116
Speaker 3: because it's so hard to make a living at it,

852
00:38:33,116 --> 00:38:36,516
Speaker 3: it's so hard to connect with the people who actually

853
00:38:36,556 --> 00:38:40,436
Speaker 3: appreciate it, and it takes too much time. As a mother,

854
00:38:40,596 --> 00:38:43,916
Speaker 3: I'm like, actually, I spent all this time and energy

855
00:38:43,996 --> 00:38:46,596
Speaker 3: last time, and it didn't really do what it needed

856
00:38:46,636 --> 00:38:47,836
Speaker 3: to do for me to be for it to be

857
00:38:47,876 --> 00:38:49,876
Speaker 3: worth it for me to do it again. So I

858
00:38:49,876 --> 00:38:52,516
Speaker 3: probably won't do that again for you know that album,

859
00:38:52,556 --> 00:38:53,316
Speaker 3: for my last.

860
00:38:53,076 --> 00:38:54,356
Speaker 4: Couple albums, you know what I mean.

861
00:38:54,356 --> 00:38:58,476
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, like, what the system has become, the

862
00:38:58,516 --> 00:39:02,276
Speaker 3: way that we profit off of our art, the expectation

863
00:39:02,436 --> 00:39:09,036
Speaker 3: of constant output, constant product, the amount of hustle that

864
00:39:09,116 --> 00:39:11,996
Speaker 3: we have to do to make money, not from the

865
00:39:12,156 --> 00:39:13,876
Speaker 3: art that we make, but from doing other stuff that

866
00:39:13,876 --> 00:39:16,276
Speaker 3: has nothing to do with making the art. As artists,

867
00:39:16,836 --> 00:39:19,716
Speaker 3: it's discouraging and it is a deterrent for entering the

868
00:39:19,756 --> 00:39:22,516
Speaker 3: art world. And so the art will definitely reflect that

869
00:39:22,716 --> 00:39:26,196
Speaker 3: shift of values, which is sad. And I'm hoping that

870
00:39:26,236 --> 00:39:29,036
Speaker 3: we can actually like figure out some ways to sustain

871
00:39:29,196 --> 00:39:33,076
Speaker 3: art and artists so that that doesn't happen, because if

872
00:39:33,116 --> 00:39:35,036
Speaker 3: we have a whole bunch of vapid art, is going

873
00:39:35,076 --> 00:39:36,556
Speaker 3: to be a real sad state for culture.

874
00:39:36,996 --> 00:39:39,956
Speaker 2: Yeah, some of that was reflected in the note that

875
00:39:39,996 --> 00:39:42,316
Speaker 2: you put up on your Instagram or on your website

876
00:39:42,756 --> 00:39:46,356
Speaker 2: about the decision to cancel your tour. I love that

877
00:39:46,516 --> 00:39:49,356
Speaker 2: note so much because you took the time to explain

878
00:39:49,476 --> 00:39:53,916
Speaker 2: exactly where you were at as a business person, as

879
00:39:53,916 --> 00:39:57,996
Speaker 2: an artist emotionally, how everything was just taking a toll

880
00:39:58,076 --> 00:40:01,716
Speaker 2: on you and the wheels were coming off. Can you

881
00:40:02,076 --> 00:40:04,356
Speaker 2: just talk a little bit about your decision to write

882
00:40:04,396 --> 00:40:06,716
Speaker 2: that and what the process of writing that for you.

883
00:40:08,756 --> 00:40:10,956
Speaker 3: Well, I knew I had to let my fans know

884
00:40:10,996 --> 00:40:12,476
Speaker 3: what was going on if I was going to cancel

885
00:40:12,516 --> 00:40:12,716
Speaker 3: a tour.

886
00:40:12,756 --> 00:40:14,236
Speaker 4: I felt really bad about canceling tour.

887
00:40:14,676 --> 00:40:17,116
Speaker 3: I really kind of felt that the tour might not

888
00:40:17,196 --> 00:40:19,436
Speaker 3: happen from before it was announced, but I was pressured

889
00:40:19,436 --> 00:40:22,716
Speaker 3: to announce it anyway, and which they were like, if

890
00:40:22,716 --> 00:40:24,716
Speaker 3: you don't announce it, then you know, then we're gonna

891
00:40:24,716 --> 00:40:26,676
Speaker 3: miss the you know, if we do do it, we're gonna.

892
00:40:26,436 --> 00:40:27,636
Speaker 4: Miss the opportunity or whatever.

893
00:40:27,956 --> 00:40:30,116
Speaker 3: So I kind of I announced it, but then I

894
00:40:30,196 --> 00:40:32,476
Speaker 3: knew it was I knew it was coming, like so

895
00:40:32,556 --> 00:40:35,676
Speaker 3: I felt like I really owed them an explanation, and

896
00:40:36,156 --> 00:40:38,116
Speaker 3: like we talked about you know, I'm a journal writer,

897
00:40:38,236 --> 00:40:41,036
Speaker 3: so I go in when I write, I go in.

898
00:40:41,436 --> 00:40:43,636
Speaker 3: And that letter was originally like four pages long, and

899
00:40:43,636 --> 00:40:47,036
Speaker 3: I wrote it late at night one night, and I

900
00:40:47,076 --> 00:40:48,996
Speaker 3: was like, who's awake right now? And I called Dave

901
00:40:49,036 --> 00:40:52,356
Speaker 3: Sidek from TV on the radio and I was like, Dave,

902
00:40:52,436 --> 00:40:55,276
Speaker 3: listen to this, you know, and he was like, wow,

903
00:40:55,396 --> 00:40:57,836
Speaker 3: that's like an op ed and a letter and a book.

904
00:40:59,476 --> 00:41:02,596
Speaker 3: He was like, maybe strip it down and hit these points,

905
00:41:02,676 --> 00:41:03,676
Speaker 3: you know, and he helped me.

906
00:41:04,236 --> 00:41:06,196
Speaker 4: He was so great. That's my buddy. I love him

907
00:41:06,236 --> 00:41:09,476
Speaker 4: so much. But he was like, look, I'm so glad

908
00:41:09,476 --> 00:41:10,036
Speaker 4: you're saying this.

909
00:41:09,996 --> 00:41:12,956
Speaker 3: Because everybody's talking about this and we all are feeling

910
00:41:13,036 --> 00:41:15,396
Speaker 3: like this, you know. And that was my experience, Like

911
00:41:15,796 --> 00:41:19,676
Speaker 3: everybody I was talking to, we were all just silently suffering,

912
00:41:19,756 --> 00:41:22,276
Speaker 3: and I was like, this isn't helping anybody, and its

913
00:41:22,276 --> 00:41:25,316
Speaker 3: certainly not helping our fans and people who care about

914
00:41:25,356 --> 00:41:28,436
Speaker 3: us and our art to not know what we're going through.

915
00:41:29,476 --> 00:41:32,316
Speaker 2: Was this like a pandemic, like coming out of the

916
00:41:32,316 --> 00:41:35,236
Speaker 2: pandemic specific issue or was this an issue that you

917
00:41:35,356 --> 00:41:37,996
Speaker 2: felt existed before the pandemic.

918
00:41:38,436 --> 00:41:42,556
Speaker 3: Well, see what happened was it's not There was a

919
00:41:42,716 --> 00:41:48,356
Speaker 3: very specific circumstances of the pandemic that made it so

920
00:41:48,356 --> 00:41:50,916
Speaker 3: so stark, you know, like so in our face and

921
00:41:50,996 --> 00:41:55,116
Speaker 3: so impossible. Like the inflation is a huge part of it,

922
00:41:55,196 --> 00:41:57,196
Speaker 3: the fact that gas was so expensive. So we are

923
00:41:57,236 --> 00:42:00,156
Speaker 3: tour buses. I mean, people are out there, they're just

924
00:42:00,196 --> 00:42:01,876
Speaker 3: out there now. But like a lot of artists are

925
00:42:01,876 --> 00:42:03,556
Speaker 3: making like at least seventy percent less than what they

926
00:42:03,636 --> 00:42:05,276
Speaker 3: normally make, So how many times are going.

927
00:42:05,196 --> 00:42:06,876
Speaker 4: To be able to continue to do that.

928
00:42:07,116 --> 00:42:08,836
Speaker 3: There's a lot of people that went out and did

929
00:42:08,876 --> 00:42:10,916
Speaker 3: full arena tours and end up millions of dollars in

930
00:42:10,956 --> 00:42:14,916
Speaker 3: debt because you're still spending way much, way more money

931
00:42:14,996 --> 00:42:17,916
Speaker 3: than you were spending and you still have to make

932
00:42:17,956 --> 00:42:18,556
Speaker 3: your show.

933
00:42:18,356 --> 00:42:20,436
Speaker 4: Look like at the same level that you are.

934
00:42:20,836 --> 00:42:23,716
Speaker 3: So some people came out of pocket for that and

935
00:42:24,436 --> 00:42:26,156
Speaker 3: just did it, you know, but how many times are

936
00:42:26,156 --> 00:42:26,556
Speaker 3: you going to be.

937
00:42:26,516 --> 00:42:26,996
Speaker 4: Able to do that?

938
00:42:27,116 --> 00:42:29,796
Speaker 3: And a lot of those circumstances have not changed, Like

939
00:42:29,836 --> 00:42:31,796
Speaker 3: I think eventually less people will be out on the

940
00:42:31,836 --> 00:42:34,316
Speaker 3: road at the same time. But then there's the bigger

941
00:42:34,356 --> 00:42:38,276
Speaker 3: problem of like mental health, which existed prior, and I

942
00:42:38,316 --> 00:42:40,516
Speaker 3: think a lot of the you know, media picked up

943
00:42:40,556 --> 00:42:43,876
Speaker 3: on that angle. It's like there are artists who are

944
00:42:43,876 --> 00:42:46,636
Speaker 3: out there and touring fine and making money, but they

945
00:42:46,676 --> 00:42:52,436
Speaker 3: are so depleted and it's such an unsustainable pace to

946
00:42:52,556 --> 00:42:57,276
Speaker 3: be expected to tour as the main way that you

947
00:42:57,316 --> 00:43:00,476
Speaker 3: sustain your career, whether it's financial or just having to

948
00:43:00,476 --> 00:43:02,396
Speaker 3: stay in the public eyes so you be so you're

949
00:43:02,436 --> 00:43:05,956
Speaker 3: relevant either way, it's too much to have to like

950
00:43:06,476 --> 00:43:08,756
Speaker 3: put out music constantly and be on the road constantly,

951
00:43:08,876 --> 00:43:11,156
Speaker 3: Like that was never the model. Like when I was

952
00:43:11,196 --> 00:43:13,436
Speaker 3: growing up, people put out records about every four years

953
00:43:13,836 --> 00:43:15,796
Speaker 3: and they sold their records, and they made their money

954
00:43:15,836 --> 00:43:17,716
Speaker 3: and they could tour or not tour, but you know

955
00:43:17,796 --> 00:43:20,276
Speaker 3: they did, but they didn't have to spend so much

956
00:43:20,276 --> 00:43:24,196
Speaker 3: time on the road. Maybe when you're like young, it

957
00:43:24,276 --> 00:43:26,116
Speaker 3: might be fun going around the world the first time

958
00:43:26,236 --> 00:43:29,276
Speaker 3: is really really fun going around the world. When you

959
00:43:29,276 --> 00:43:31,156
Speaker 3: have three kids that have to leave your family and

960
00:43:31,196 --> 00:43:35,796
Speaker 3: you've been there before and you're doing above five shows

961
00:43:35,796 --> 00:43:39,396
Speaker 3: a week, it's like, that's not fun. And when you're

962
00:43:39,436 --> 00:43:41,996
Speaker 3: doing that every year, like people are putting out records

963
00:43:41,996 --> 00:43:45,596
Speaker 3: every year. Now like I'm not doing that, and I

964
00:43:45,596 --> 00:43:46,836
Speaker 3: don't even want to do that.

965
00:43:47,316 --> 00:43:50,316
Speaker 2: What was it like for you specifically in the pandemic,

966
00:43:50,436 --> 00:43:53,636
Speaker 2: Like before the pandemic started, before we knew what it was,

967
00:43:54,276 --> 00:43:56,036
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden it became clear that

968
00:43:56,076 --> 00:43:58,756
Speaker 2: we're going to be stuck inside. What was that like

969
00:43:58,836 --> 00:44:00,636
Speaker 2: for you as an artist, for someone who had been

970
00:44:00,716 --> 00:44:04,876
Speaker 2: out and around and used to moving and working with people,

971
00:44:05,476 --> 00:44:06,436
Speaker 2: how did that affect you?

972
00:44:07,716 --> 00:44:09,516
Speaker 3: Well, the hardest part for me was just having all

973
00:44:09,516 --> 00:44:11,396
Speaker 3: the children and no help in the house. In the

974
00:44:11,436 --> 00:44:13,996
Speaker 3: initial lockdown where we like nobody was coming in the house.

975
00:44:14,436 --> 00:44:16,156
Speaker 4: That was just pretty impossible.

976
00:44:16,196 --> 00:44:19,796
Speaker 3: My twins had just turned two and nobody else could cook,

977
00:44:19,876 --> 00:44:22,476
Speaker 3: nobody else was deep clean, and it was just undoable.

978
00:44:22,836 --> 00:44:25,276
Speaker 3: So what happened was I started feeling like I was

979
00:44:25,596 --> 00:44:27,476
Speaker 3: drowning and I was going to have like some sort

980
00:44:27,476 --> 00:44:31,436
Speaker 3: of breakdown honestly, if I couldn't have some sort of

981
00:44:31,476 --> 00:44:34,396
Speaker 3: space to like just be my normal self, like other

982
00:44:34,476 --> 00:44:38,116
Speaker 3: than mom and other than just being on everybody else's

983
00:44:38,116 --> 00:44:40,676
Speaker 3: schedule of needs and no time for my own needs.

984
00:44:41,076 --> 00:44:44,996
Speaker 3: So eventually I was able to carve out like the

985
00:44:45,036 --> 00:44:47,756
Speaker 3: four days when my mom would come in, I would

986
00:44:47,756 --> 00:44:49,956
Speaker 3: get to go to the back house for three hours

987
00:44:50,436 --> 00:44:54,836
Speaker 3: after dinner and write or record or do whatever I

988
00:44:54,876 --> 00:44:57,156
Speaker 3: needed to do. And thank god, I had just set

989
00:44:57,236 --> 00:45:00,516
Speaker 3: up my studio at home, and so I started working

990
00:45:00,516 --> 00:45:03,876
Speaker 3: on my record and it was like the most cathartic

991
00:45:03,916 --> 00:45:05,756
Speaker 3: thing because there had been so much because it wasn't

992
00:45:05,796 --> 00:45:07,796
Speaker 3: just the pandemic, it was the riots and all the

993
00:45:07,796 --> 00:45:11,036
Speaker 3: police brutality and like the wildfire. It was so much

994
00:45:11,076 --> 00:45:15,116
Speaker 3: going on, and I had had no opportunity to even access.

995
00:45:15,276 --> 00:45:17,756
Speaker 3: I was in survival mode, you know, so I didn't

996
00:45:17,796 --> 00:45:20,116
Speaker 3: get to process any of it. So it wasn't until

997
00:45:20,116 --> 00:45:22,076
Speaker 3: I had space in my backhouse that I started being

998
00:45:22,076 --> 00:45:26,716
Speaker 3: able to process it through writing and music.

999
00:45:26,956 --> 00:45:27,596
Speaker 4: That's how I live.

1000
00:45:27,676 --> 00:45:30,076
Speaker 3: That's my lifeline is creativity. So to be able to

1001
00:45:30,116 --> 00:45:32,516
Speaker 3: have the space, I was like stuff was pouring out

1002
00:45:32,516 --> 00:45:32,676
Speaker 3: of me.

1003
00:45:32,716 --> 00:45:34,996
Speaker 4: So I just wrote this record so fast. And then

1004
00:45:35,116 --> 00:45:37,116
Speaker 4: we got deeper in the pandemic. We went to Canada

1005
00:45:37,356 --> 00:45:40,156
Speaker 4: and we had a nanny at that point who came

1006
00:45:40,276 --> 00:45:41,316
Speaker 4: to stay with us.

1007
00:45:41,556 --> 00:45:45,436
Speaker 3: And I rented a cabin in the woods and sent

1008
00:45:45,476 --> 00:45:47,436
Speaker 3: all my music equipment out and that's when I like,

1009
00:45:47,876 --> 00:45:50,276
Speaker 3: I actually like made the record. So I was doing

1010
00:45:50,356 --> 00:45:53,956
Speaker 3: virtual sessions with producers. I'd be there like eight hours

1011
00:45:53,956 --> 00:45:55,996
Speaker 3: a day, and that was amazing because then it was

1012
00:45:56,116 --> 00:45:58,116
Speaker 3: like fun. Then it was like, I mean, I was

1013
00:45:58,156 --> 00:46:00,996
Speaker 3: getting to have a social interaction with my friends all over.

1014
00:46:00,876 --> 00:46:02,956
Speaker 4: The world for hours at a time.

1015
00:46:03,236 --> 00:46:05,276
Speaker 3: We spend half the time just talking because we were

1016
00:46:05,316 --> 00:46:06,916
Speaker 3: just also alone.

1017
00:46:08,316 --> 00:46:10,476
Speaker 2: But yeah, I feel like yourself again. You felt like

1018
00:46:10,516 --> 00:46:13,556
Speaker 2: an adult, Yeah, and also just to be creative.

1019
00:46:13,556 --> 00:46:16,236
Speaker 3: But then also the wonderful thing about the pandemic was

1020
00:46:16,276 --> 00:46:18,596
Speaker 3: that I ended up for years, I felt like I

1021
00:46:18,596 --> 00:46:22,516
Speaker 3: was on this hamster wheel of you know, albums and

1022
00:46:22,556 --> 00:46:25,276
Speaker 3: touring and trying to have kids in between, and you know,

1023
00:46:25,836 --> 00:46:28,756
Speaker 3: and I got to kind of step off and start

1024
00:46:28,836 --> 00:46:31,116
Speaker 3: some ideas that I've been wanting to do for years.

1025
00:46:31,516 --> 00:46:33,636
Speaker 3: One was came up with the idea to do this

1026
00:46:33,756 --> 00:46:37,036
Speaker 3: memoir and I wrote the book proposal. Another was I

1027
00:46:37,036 --> 00:46:38,876
Speaker 3: came up with the idea for a movie that I

1028
00:46:38,876 --> 00:46:41,036
Speaker 3: wanted to do, which I've just finished the first draft

1029
00:46:41,076 --> 00:46:43,636
Speaker 3: of that, and that'll have an album to go with it.

1030
00:46:43,716 --> 00:46:46,356
Speaker 3: And so I got to take the time to start

1031
00:46:46,396 --> 00:46:50,316
Speaker 3: all these other things that once I started them, even

1032
00:46:50,396 --> 00:46:52,356
Speaker 3: once the you know, once things were back going, I

1033
00:46:52,476 --> 00:46:54,556
Speaker 3: just like was like, I'm going to finish these things

1034
00:46:54,596 --> 00:46:56,996
Speaker 3: that I started. So it was actually an opportunity to

1035
00:46:57,036 --> 00:46:59,556
Speaker 3: be creative in many different ways that I hadn't had

1036
00:46:59,596 --> 00:47:00,716
Speaker 3: the time to start.

1037
00:47:01,316 --> 00:47:03,556
Speaker 2: And if you were on tour, you would have never

1038
00:47:03,636 --> 00:47:05,636
Speaker 2: had the opportunity to do those things. You would have

1039
00:47:05,796 --> 00:47:06,796
Speaker 2: had space.

1040
00:47:06,516 --> 00:47:07,796
Speaker 4: Ever, because I've been wanting to do a lot of

1041
00:47:07,796 --> 00:47:08,596
Speaker 4: those things for years.

1042
00:47:09,276 --> 00:47:11,356
Speaker 2: So are you playing shows now?

1043
00:47:12,916 --> 00:47:14,676
Speaker 4: I have four shows this summer?

1044
00:47:15,156 --> 00:47:18,596
Speaker 2: Okay, how are you feeling now? Do you think about

1045
00:47:18,596 --> 00:47:21,796
Speaker 2: it differently? Do you feel prepared to be out again?

1046
00:47:22,756 --> 00:47:27,916
Speaker 3: You want the honest answer, I am so into all

1047
00:47:27,956 --> 00:47:30,676
Speaker 3: the other stuff that I'm doing right now that's not music,

1048
00:47:30,796 --> 00:47:34,556
Speaker 3: and I'm really having an amazing time doing a bunch

1049
00:47:34,596 --> 00:47:36,236
Speaker 3: of things that I've been wanting to do for years,

1050
00:47:36,276 --> 00:47:38,796
Speaker 3: and so I think I'm going to focus actually on

1051
00:47:38,876 --> 00:47:41,476
Speaker 3: some of these other projects for a while. And they

1052
00:47:41,516 --> 00:47:44,956
Speaker 3: are not necessarily not going to include music, you know,

1053
00:47:45,516 --> 00:47:47,556
Speaker 3: but they're not going to include doing things the way

1054
00:47:47,876 --> 00:47:50,516
Speaker 3: in the traditional like make a record and tour.

1055
00:47:50,636 --> 00:47:52,036
Speaker 4: I don't think I'll be doing that for a while.

1056
00:47:52,276 --> 00:47:55,356
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm having so much fun, and actually it's just

1057
00:47:55,636 --> 00:47:59,716
Speaker 3: so much fresher and more exciting to like not be

1058
00:47:59,836 --> 00:48:02,756
Speaker 3: doing things the way that I've always done them. Shows

1059
00:48:03,116 --> 00:48:06,356
Speaker 3: right now don't feel exciting, but when I get on stage,

1060
00:48:06,396 --> 00:48:08,156
Speaker 3: I will be very excited to be there with my fans.

1061
00:48:08,196 --> 00:48:11,556
Speaker 3: I do miss my fans, and I generally have fun performing.

1062
00:48:11,796 --> 00:48:14,676
Speaker 2: Yeah. Have you noticed that your crowd has changed over

1063
00:48:14,676 --> 00:48:15,116
Speaker 2: the years.

1064
00:48:16,396 --> 00:48:18,756
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean some of them are older like me,

1065
00:48:19,116 --> 00:48:20,996
Speaker 3: and then some of them. But the thing is, I

1066
00:48:20,996 --> 00:48:24,036
Speaker 3: got a lot of new young fans. Like I think

1067
00:48:24,076 --> 00:48:26,036
Speaker 3: a lot of my fans are still like twenty five,

1068
00:48:26,076 --> 00:48:27,836
Speaker 3: which they were when I first started. So I've got

1069
00:48:27,876 --> 00:48:29,956
Speaker 3: all the fans that were twenty five and now are

1070
00:48:29,996 --> 00:48:32,196
Speaker 3: fifteen years older, and then I've got actually new fans

1071
00:48:32,236 --> 00:48:34,836
Speaker 3: that are twenty five and some even younger. So I

1072
00:48:34,916 --> 00:48:37,116
Speaker 3: love that people are still finding out about my music

1073
00:48:37,156 --> 00:48:39,756
Speaker 3: and it's still resonating with people. Like I said when

1074
00:48:39,756 --> 00:48:41,836
Speaker 3: I listened to that first album, it's still resonates, and

1075
00:48:41,876 --> 00:48:43,956
Speaker 3: I think a lot of the things, like during the pandemic,

1076
00:48:44,156 --> 00:48:47,196
Speaker 3: I noticed disparate youth really like kind of had to jump,

1077
00:48:47,236 --> 00:48:50,076
Speaker 3: and I think that that's because the messages are really

1078
00:48:50,196 --> 00:48:51,116
Speaker 3: yeah forever.

1079
00:48:52,556 --> 00:48:55,276
Speaker 2: I'm curious where you are now, like what is your

1080
00:48:55,716 --> 00:48:59,796
Speaker 2: relationship to success and to ambition and how has that

1081
00:48:59,916 --> 00:49:02,956
Speaker 2: changed over just the arc of your career from when

1082
00:49:02,956 --> 00:49:06,636
Speaker 2: you first released the album, your debut album till now,

1083
00:49:06,716 --> 00:49:09,556
Speaker 2: Like how do you think you think differently about success

1084
00:49:09,556 --> 00:49:10,556
Speaker 2: at this point.

1085
00:49:11,236 --> 00:49:13,716
Speaker 3: I think I'm really like coming into a new space

1086
00:49:13,756 --> 00:49:16,196
Speaker 3: and my understanding of a lot of things. I don't know,

1087
00:49:16,316 --> 00:49:20,556
Speaker 3: FOMO just completely disappeared out of my realm. And that

1088
00:49:20,636 --> 00:49:23,316
Speaker 3: used to be a big thing, especially with social media,

1089
00:49:23,436 --> 00:49:26,116
Speaker 3: like that whole thing about like always needing to be

1090
00:49:26,236 --> 00:49:28,956
Speaker 3: there and be in the scene or should I have

1091
00:49:29,316 --> 00:49:31,636
Speaker 3: done this or should I not have done this? That

1092
00:49:32,116 --> 00:49:35,836
Speaker 3: I don't really see that anymore. My idea of success

1093
00:49:36,076 --> 00:49:40,876
Speaker 3: is balance and to be able to be creative in

1094
00:49:40,916 --> 00:49:44,876
Speaker 3: a way that brings me joy and fulfillment and peace

1095
00:49:45,356 --> 00:49:49,236
Speaker 3: and continuing to evolve personally. I want to be able

1096
00:49:49,276 --> 00:49:51,756
Speaker 3: to make things that are inspiring and that change people's

1097
00:49:51,836 --> 00:49:56,276
Speaker 3: perspectives of themselves and the world. And that's what makes

1098
00:49:56,276 --> 00:49:58,836
Speaker 3: me feel successful is when I can do that, and

1099
00:50:00,236 --> 00:50:03,836
Speaker 3: also now that I'm responsible for a bunch of people,

1100
00:50:04,596 --> 00:50:08,356
Speaker 3: to be able to support them and myself in doing that.

1101
00:50:09,236 --> 00:50:11,316
Speaker 3: I think you know, at one point, though, I probably

1102
00:50:12,276 --> 00:50:14,116
Speaker 3: would have said that I want as many people as

1103
00:50:14,116 --> 00:50:18,476
Speaker 3: possible to know my music, but I just want the

1104
00:50:18,516 --> 00:50:20,876
Speaker 3: people who are ready to know my music to know

1105
00:50:20,956 --> 00:50:21,436
Speaker 3: my music.

1106
00:50:22,316 --> 00:50:24,516
Speaker 2: Do you feel like, I know, you said that you

1107
00:50:24,636 --> 00:50:28,276
Speaker 2: set out to make music that sounded like nothing that

1108
00:50:28,356 --> 00:50:30,636
Speaker 2: was already out there and you had it, you heard

1109
00:50:30,676 --> 00:50:33,396
Speaker 2: it in your mind. Do you feel like you've been

1110
00:50:33,436 --> 00:50:34,316
Speaker 2: able to achieve that?

1111
00:50:35,556 --> 00:50:37,516
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, definitely.

1112
00:50:38,196 --> 00:50:41,236
Speaker 3: I read somewhere yesterday that there's like less than one

1113
00:50:41,356 --> 00:50:44,756
Speaker 3: percent of producers or black women, and I was like,

1114
00:50:45,196 --> 00:50:49,636
Speaker 3: that's so messed up. But I think that part of

1115
00:50:49,716 --> 00:50:53,196
Speaker 3: my journey in being able to get down what I

1116
00:50:53,236 --> 00:50:54,956
Speaker 3: hear in my head is actually just to become a

1117
00:50:54,996 --> 00:51:00,076
Speaker 3: producer and be able to direct the musicians and producers

1118
00:51:00,116 --> 00:51:02,636
Speaker 3: that I work with to make a sound that's very

1119
00:51:02,636 --> 00:51:05,356
Speaker 3: specific to what I want it to be. And it's

1120
00:51:05,396 --> 00:51:08,596
Speaker 3: been a skill set that I've learned over the years

1121
00:51:08,676 --> 00:51:10,436
Speaker 3: and to be able to make that happen.

1122
00:51:10,436 --> 00:51:12,036
Speaker 4: And I think it's man.

1123
00:51:12,276 --> 00:51:14,596
Speaker 3: I guess it's rare, but I wish more women would

1124
00:51:14,636 --> 00:51:17,036
Speaker 3: do it because it really, I think would make a

1125
00:51:17,036 --> 00:51:21,636
Speaker 3: big difference into how women are portrayed.

1126
00:51:21,276 --> 00:51:22,636
Speaker 4: In music and.

1127
00:51:24,116 --> 00:51:28,476
Speaker 3: Give a lot more power to women in creating unique

1128
00:51:28,916 --> 00:51:30,156
Speaker 3: voices and sounds.

1129
00:51:30,556 --> 00:51:32,996
Speaker 2: Yeah, how is it for you? When you heard the

1130
00:51:33,836 --> 00:51:37,196
Speaker 2: break my Soul remix and Beyonce shouted you out?

1131
00:51:37,636 --> 00:51:39,996
Speaker 3: I think other people had a bigger reaction than I did,

1132
00:51:41,196 --> 00:51:44,276
Speaker 3: But it was cool. I was very far away from

1133
00:51:44,276 --> 00:51:48,156
Speaker 3: everything I was in Jamaica and when I was sitting out,

1134
00:51:48,316 --> 00:51:50,596
Speaker 3: like on this thing over the ocean, and my phone

1135
00:51:50,676 --> 00:51:52,396
Speaker 3: just happened to be with me, and it was like bing,

1136
00:51:52,476 --> 00:51:54,236
Speaker 3: bing bing, and I was like, oh, it's ruining my

1137
00:51:54,316 --> 00:51:55,916
Speaker 3: moment on the ocean.

1138
00:51:56,316 --> 00:51:57,596
Speaker 4: But then everyone started saying.

1139
00:51:57,516 --> 00:51:59,356
Speaker 3: I was like, what are they talking about? I had

1140
00:51:59,396 --> 00:52:02,396
Speaker 3: no idea what they were talking about. And then somebody

1141
00:52:02,476 --> 00:52:05,036
Speaker 3: sent it to me and I was like, oh, that's cool.

1142
00:52:05,836 --> 00:52:08,396
Speaker 3: It felt good to be acknowledged in that way, because

1143
00:52:08,396 --> 00:52:12,836
Speaker 3: I do think I said, I definitely know that I

1144
00:52:12,916 --> 00:52:15,916
Speaker 3: have been a pioneer in a lot of ways, and

1145
00:52:15,956 --> 00:52:19,316
Speaker 3: I know that I've influenced a lot of artists, but

1146
00:52:19,636 --> 00:52:22,996
Speaker 3: unfortunately artists don't always say who has influenced them or

1147
00:52:23,036 --> 00:52:23,676
Speaker 3: they just you know.

1148
00:52:23,756 --> 00:52:26,596
Speaker 4: And it was nice that she actually said that.

1149
00:52:26,676 --> 00:52:29,716
Speaker 3: And also the company and the names that she included

1150
00:52:30,076 --> 00:52:31,996
Speaker 3: that felt really special.

1151
00:52:32,036 --> 00:52:33,956
Speaker 4: So I was really grateful that she did that.

1152
00:52:34,076 --> 00:52:36,236
Speaker 3: And I not just for myself, but for some of

1153
00:52:36,276 --> 00:52:38,676
Speaker 3: the other artists that she mentioned that I know people

1154
00:52:38,716 --> 00:52:40,276
Speaker 3: didn't know of, you know.

1155
00:52:40,316 --> 00:52:41,156
Speaker 4: Like Rosetta Tharp.

1156
00:52:41,196 --> 00:52:43,556
Speaker 3: I mean, like, I know a lot of those people

1157
00:52:43,556 --> 00:52:46,716
Speaker 3: were like who, And it's like, that's good that she

1158
00:52:46,956 --> 00:52:49,156
Speaker 3: used her platform to bring attention to these women.

1159
00:52:49,676 --> 00:52:53,156
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's great. Well, thank you so much for

1160
00:52:53,196 --> 00:52:54,476
Speaker 2: doing this. This was fun.

1161
00:52:54,676 --> 00:52:58,676
Speaker 4: Thank you, it was fun.

1162
00:52:59,036 --> 00:53:01,956
Speaker 1: Thanks to Sonti Gold for sharing artistic vision with us.

1163
00:53:02,156 --> 00:53:04,476
Speaker 1: You can hear all of our favorite Sonti Gold songs

1164
00:53:04,516 --> 00:53:08,196
Speaker 1: on a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. You

1165
00:53:08,236 --> 00:53:11,116
Speaker 1: can subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com

1166
00:53:11,116 --> 00:53:14,436
Speaker 1: slash broken record Podcast, where you can find all of

1167
00:53:14,476 --> 00:53:18,636
Speaker 1: our new episodes. Broken Record is produced to help from

1168
00:53:18,716 --> 00:53:23,716
Speaker 1: Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ven Taliday, Nisha Venkat, Jordan McMillan,

1169
00:53:23,916 --> 00:53:29,396
Speaker 1: and Eric Sander. Our editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record

1170
00:53:29,436 --> 00:53:32,196
Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this

1171
00:53:32,276 --> 00:53:35,956
Speaker 1: show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.

1172
00:53:36,676 --> 00:53:40,196
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription service that offers bonus

1173
00:53:40,196 --> 00:53:43,956
Speaker 1: content and unintrupted ad free listening for only four ninety

1174
00:53:44,036 --> 00:53:48,276
Speaker 1: nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions,

1175
00:53:49,396 --> 00:53:51,516
Speaker 1: and if you like the show, remember to share, rate,

1176
00:53:51,596 --> 00:53:54,876
Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast staff. Our themes expect

1177
00:53:54,916 --> 00:53:56,796
Speaker 1: Anny Beats. I'm Justina richm