WEBVTT - Anne Applebaum, David Sirota & Daryl Silver 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:12.440 today's best minds, and a CBS Yougo poll finds fifty 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:17.040 eight percent of Americans want Congress to block Trump's tariffs. 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.919 We have such a great choke for you today the 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:27.080 Atlantics and Applebaum stops by to explain that our authoritarian 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:31.280 rise is actually happening faster than normal. Then we'll talk 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:36.519 to former The Apprentice producer Darryl Silver about what we 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.280 can learn from what he saw working with Trump. Plus, 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.600 we have a special bonus from our YouTube channel with 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:48.760 the Levers Dave Sarota on how Democrats can use Trump's 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:52.640 tariffs to win. But first the news Smike. 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:56.959 We have Dave Serota from The Lever on this podcast 0:00:56.960 --> 0:00:59.360 a little later and on our YouTube channel today and 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:03.520 his news organization as a blockbuster story that Trump's irs 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.160 pick was just enriched by tech schemers and that they 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:09.320 paid down one hundred and thirty thousand dollars of his 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:10.280 personal debt. 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.080 Yeah, I mean, look, this is happening all over the 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:16.880 Trump administration, so none of us should be surprised. But 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:20.240 this is a new document show that Billy Long. He 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:22.679 was a member of Congress or Republican member of Congress. 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.800 One hundred and thirty thousand dollars in personal debt was 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:29.520 suddenly paid off by donors at a firm policed by 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:32.679 the tax agency he lead. By the way, this Trump 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.080 administration has been through a ton of different You'll be 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:40.320 shocked to know this. IRS directors, this is the acting 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:43.480 head of the IRS is stepping down and retiring. It's 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:48.080 just been like a cascade of resignations IRS chief Information 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:53.800 Officer and by the way, twenty thousand IRS employees offered 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:59.640 to resign because Trump has been trying to streamline the 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:05.080 IRS and make it very tiny. So you should not 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:10.600 be surprised. And look, this is like low key cleptocracy here. 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:15.920 Paying off the loans of the government agency that is 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:23.200 supposed to monitor you political contributions is one of the 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:27.880 many ways in which Trump's people grift off this administration. 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.200 Governor Gavin Newsom's California is now the first state to 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:32.520 suit Trump on tariffs. 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:37.600 Yeah, let's talk about this Governor Gavin Newsom. He is 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:41.160 a bad podcaster, but he is in some way as 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:42.320 a good governor. 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.040 Have you ever heard of somebody starting a podcast and 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:46.760 having their polls fall because of it. 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:50.080 Yes, it's so stupid. And again, I just want to 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:52.720 just for one second, let's just go over this again 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.040 with Newsom Gavin. If you're listening, I want to say 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.720 one thing. You want to go on their podcasts. You 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.680 don't want them to come on your podcast. You need 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.400 to get in front of the audience that listens to 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:11.040 Steve Bannon, not get Steve Bannon in front of your audience. 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.680 You see what I'm saying. Go on Steve Bannon's podcast, 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.120 don't have Steve Bannon go on your podcast. This is 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:22.800 how this works. This is the siloed media industrial complex. 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.400 Go to them, don't bring them to you. Thank you, 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.880 and good night. But yes, this is good. California is 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:35.200 the fifth largest economy in the world. They will be absolutely, 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.680 like all of us, completely fucked over by tariffs. I'm 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.560 glad they're doing this. By the way, tariff's are a 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:47.040 really good example of how stupid and bad this administration is. 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.480 Right Like, they don't work, nobody wants them. They make 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:54.360 everything more expensive. They're not going to onshore manufacturing by 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.720 making things more expensive. There does not like one plus 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:01.880 two dozen equal seven thousand. So I am glad to 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.960 see this. I wish that we would see, you know, 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.200 the rage that people are having about the tariffs, about 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:13.080 the like grad student disappearing right, that grad student is 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:17.599 still in the Louisiana detention facility after having written it 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:21.400 opinion piece, right, So that stuff I would rather. I 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:23.200 wish people would be a little more upset about that 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.240 than the tariffs. But good for California. And you know, 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:30.039 I think more importantly, I think there's a real chance 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:32.919 that none of this, you know, this is going to 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.240 stop the tariffs. Between this and the Supreme Court case, 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:40.360 I actually think that will actually work, so good for them. 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.800 And like with so many things Trump is trying to do, 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.000 there is no legal standing for it. 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.480 Speaking of no legal standing, we used to have this 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:53.840 bipartisan consensus that no one would ever ever contend that 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.080 the sole due process thing is one of the things 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.240 that makes America great. Well that's gone now because jad 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.680 Vince says he's fine with the inevitable errors of due process. 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:06.839 Jd Vance has been shopping this all day on Twitter. 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:11.640 He is like, we shouldn't have to process for illegals 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.560 or for people who are non American citizens. By the way, 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.640 I want to point out that this administration and these 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:23.720 Republicans have for a while been saying that that people 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.320 who are not in this country legally are not entitled 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:31.880 to due process. And what we saw very clearly from 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.800 the Supreme Court nine zero is that, in fact, no, 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:39.720 that's not true. So it is so JD Vance by 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.680 the way, to have JD Vance being like, no, you know, 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.600 the Supreme Court already said you can't do this, JD. 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.120 So like, here's the deal. You don't get to do it, 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:53.839 Like that's it. And again I think it's worth remembering 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:56.160 like they are trying to do a lot of illegal 0:05:56.200 --> 0:06:02.000 stuff because they want to, and we need to push 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:07.160 back and say n because no, no, no, no, this 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.560 is not okay. This is not what any of us 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.400 should be doing. And he's wrong. The Supreme Court won't 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:16.800 go along with this, and he's going to try because 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:21.240 he's super sketchy, but just ignore it. He's wrong. It's 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:23.679 not going to happen. Thank god we have the courts. 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:28.679 So, speaking of we have seen a very very big 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.680 tide shift in the Democratic base, and there's a new 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.920 poll from Harvard Center for American Political studies that shows 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.440 that Democrats want the party to abandon this centrist approach. 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:43.119 No more Liz Cheney being trot out. Yeah, they're going left. 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:48.120 So this is Harvard Center for American Political Studies. We 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.440 have to caveat this because this makes you too happy. 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:58.640 So I'm worried it's not totally legit. Anytime anything confirms 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.080 our priors, we have to be a little suspicious. 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.920 Yes, But also anytime you see crowds that size all 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.839 of a sudden, you start to wonder, right. 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:09.360 And the crowds that sis you're talking about are the 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:13.920 Bernie aoc rallies. A survey taken by Harvard Center for 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:18.280 American Political Studies and Harris between April ninth and tenth 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.400 found that seventy two percent of Democratic voters support politicians 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:27.000 like Sanders and AOC who are calling on Democrats to 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:31.520 adapt a more aggressive stance towards Trump and his administration, 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:36.280 fight harder rather than leaders who are willing to compromise 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.960 with President Trump. So that's I think pretty important. I 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:44.440 wouldn't say I think, Look, Jesse's very lefty, and I 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:50.000 am leftyer than I was for a long time. But 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.560 I do think this is really important. It is about 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.480 taking a stand and pushing back. I would also add 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:03.560 that this is AOC and Chris Murphy and all the 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:08.000 politicians who have been standing up have raised millions of dollars. 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:12.760 They've had like the best quarter ever. So clearly voters 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:17.600 like this, and they want this, and they want pushback 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.880 and they want standing up, and they don't want you 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.200 to bring Charlie Kirk on your podcast. That's for you, 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:34.920 Governor Musing. And Applebaum is the author of Autocracy, Inc. 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:39.040 The Dictators who want to run the world. Welcome back 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:43.120 and Applebaum, thanks for having me. I'm so glad to 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.440 have you because you predicted everything that was going to happen. 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:50.800 I'm sorry to telling you love everything. You wrote. This 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:54.840 really brilliant book about cryptocracy and what that looks like 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.480 in authoritarianism, and you just had a really smart op 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:00.559 at about it. And so we've spent a lot of 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.160 time thinking about what this presidency would look like. In 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:07.680 some ways, it's worse. In some ways, it's not as bad. 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:09.679 I mean, there are certain parts of it which I 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:13.120 think are worse, but also there seems to be more 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:14.240 weiggle room, if. 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.200 That makes sense, in the area of kleptocracy and corruption 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.600 and conflicts of interest. This is about as bad as 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.360 it could be. Yes, So I did write a book. 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.240 It's called Autocracy, Inc. And it was about this network 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.920 of dictators who don't share any ideology, but they have 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.840 common interests, and they often have common financial interests, and 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:38.000 they act out of their financial and political interests and 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:40.120 not in the interests of their own countries when they 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.839 make decisions. When the book was published, which was last summer, 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.720 a lot of people said, and will Trump be like that? 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.320 And I said, let's wait and see. But I think 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.640 that's a really precise description of what we're seeing. We're 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:57.359 seeing an administration which is acting not in the interests 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:01.160 of all Americans, but in the interest of very small 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.920 groups and in some cases in the president's personal financial interest. 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.400 I just want you to tell us who those dictators are. 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:12.120 That's Orbon and Bud and right, Yeah, the book. 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:17.079 The book was actually about Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela. 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:21.160 Leaders of countries who where there are no checks and balances, 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:25.200 where there's no rule of law, where the law is 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.680 whatever the person in charge or the party in charge 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.959 says it is right, and that's that was a that's 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:34.280 the big difference, the important difference between those countries and 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.880 liberal democracies. And I was also particularly interested in countries 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:42.320 that were fighting against narratives of democracy and we're trying 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:46.000 to create an authoritarian narrative instead. And actually you can 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.440 see ways in which this administration is also collaborating in 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:53.679 that project, so taking apart American soft power and institutions 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.040 and that promoted democracy and so on. But I think 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:59.959 the I think the shift in the direction of personalized 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:04.640 rule without rule of law, seeking to undermine or go 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:09.840 around the constitution, seeking to attacking the legal community, actually 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:15.719 attacking law firms, directly, seeking to undermine courts, ignoring or 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:17.680 mocking court decisions. 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:19.160 That is stuff that. 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.800 We know from the autocratic world. That's almost the definition 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:25.679 of autocracy. You know, these are countries where people rule 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.360 without any constraints. And it looks to me like this 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:33.960 administration also wants to rule without any constraints. 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.360 Right, and things like for example, this is a bit neasy, 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.960 but they're kicking out the wire services of the White 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:42.000 House press pool. 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:44.720 Seaking the wire services out of the White House press pool, 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:51.080 suing or using regulatory bodies to undermine the broadcast networks, 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:55.840 issuing executive orders against law firms seeking to literally take 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.280 over universities. I mean, the proposal for what they wanted 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.360 to do to Harvard was actually there's no way Harvard 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.800 could ever have accepted it. It was about giving the 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:09.720 administration control over a faculty, hiring, courses, students, eventually acceptances, 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.760 all kinds of things that no institution could tolerate. So 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.240 all those things are part of a project. And the 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:22.760 project is eliminate any source of information or knowledge or 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:27.120 expertise that can challenge the ruler, and eliminate any source 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:31.480 of possible descent, any institutions or organizations that could transmit 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.559 or communicate descent. These are tactics that we know from 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:38.280 the autocratic world. This is how many autocrats came to power, 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.280 or it's what they do once they have power. Here, 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:44.200 I have to say, I think maybe Americans don't realize 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.840 the shift has happened here much faster than I have 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:51.120 seen happen anywhere else. Usually it takes a long time. 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.840 Like there's an expression boiling the frog. You know, you 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.760 do a little, one little thing, and then another little thing, 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:58.800 and then before the frog knows that the frog is boiled. 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.960 This is much more aggressive, and of course it might 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:05.679 also therefore create a much more powerful counter reaction. The 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.240 aim and the goals are clear. It's attack institutions, it's 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:14.280 undermined the rule of law, eliminate sources of disagreement, and 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.400 do so also as a way of fighting culture wars. 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.800 So when the administration attacks Harvard or Columbia, the purpose 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:24.680 isn't just legal. It's also part of a narrative game. 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.920 We're pushing back against institutions that you don't like, or 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.480 that they think there are supporters don't like. There's an 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.640 argument being made as well as these legal changes happening. 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.280 It's important to sort of mention that Columbia did the 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.560 wrong thing, and the billionaires and the law firms that 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:44.319 went along with that. You don't ever win by acquiescing. 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.120 Will you talk about that? I mean, except with Putin, 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:48.920 But you don't win Trump doing. 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:49.840 That with Putin. 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:50.280 Do so. 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.839 Note what happened to Columbia is something that everyone should 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:58.240 pay attention to. Because Columbia tried to concede. Columbia tried 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.199 to go along with what the Straation wanted. It tried 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:05.120 to it abolished some departments or it announced some kind 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.600 of investigations and so on, and they thought that in 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.800 exchange for doing that, that the administration would give them 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:16.080 back their four hundred million dollars of federal scientific research funding, 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:17.960 which by the way, has nothing to do with, you know, 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.120 any of the political issues that Columbia was supposedly dealing with. 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.120 And then they didn't give it back. Instead they asked 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.200 for more and they still haven't given them the four 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.800 hundred million dollars. And the lesson is, you can you 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:31.920 can do what they want. You can concede to what 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.160 they want. They're going to demand more, you know, they 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:35.800 will not They're not going to leave you alone. And 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.040 I would say the same thing that these law firms 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.840 who have made concessions to Trump and you know are 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:42.440 trying to get along with them, and that that's going 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.080 to end badly too. Offering him some kind of deal 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.360 or paying money to his family is as you know, 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.880 as Amazon did when it when it invested forty million 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.640 dollars in a documentary about Millennia. All of that will 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.960 not build respect and safety. It will just make them 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.040 ask for more. They'll just want more money, They'll want 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.320 more payoffs, they'll want more concessions. 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.640 And I think what I think is so interesting here 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.320 is that if you are a university, you can win 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.360 if you just take them to court, because none of 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:14.520 this is legal. 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:19.320 It is not legal to withhold federal funding you in 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:25.040 exchange for unconstitutional requests to curve free speech. Note, as 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.760 long as we still have some independent judges in this country, 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:30.600 you know, Harvard will win that case. 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.480 With the exception of this sort of very few corrupt judges, 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.920 the very few Eileen Cannons. Trump world has not had 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.160 the time to put in cronies in the legal system, 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:43.960 so they are rolling the dice and getting people like 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:48.200 Judge Boseburg, who was appointed by both Obama and Bush 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.160 and who does not believe he's in Hungary. So I 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.040 think that is an important sort of backstop there is 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.640 that you can be brave and know the courts will 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:57.280 have your back. 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:01.000 Well, it's also the case that conservative judges for the 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:05.080 last several decades have all been originalists. They're people who 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.760 almost made a fetish of the Constitution. You know, I 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.080 think you know a lot of legal cases have been argued. 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.480 You know, what were the founders thinking in the eighteenth 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.520 century when they wrote this or that you know this 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:15.520 or that piece of it. 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:17.520 You know, even the conservative judges. 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.360 Are people who have, at least in their scholarship and 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.320 in their work, have not been partisans in the crudest sense, 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:28.120 but have been sticklers for an absolute orthdox interpretation of 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:29.840 the rule of law. So there is some hope that 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:34.480 conservative judges, when they see clear violations of the Constitution, 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:35.800 will reject it. 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:41.200 Yeah, and I mean this nine zero response from the 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.480 Supreme Court. I don't want to get all rosy eyed, 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.840 because we are certainly in a lot of trouble here, 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.960 but this nine zero response from the Supreme Court on 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.640 that you can't get rid of due process, I think 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:55.480 is meaningful. 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:59.440 I think it's meaningful too. It's also the very interesting 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:03.400 if you saw the exchange in the Oval office when 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.760 the bouqueta from El Salvador was there with President Trump, 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.760 there was a little weird commentary about the nine O decision. 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.360 And I think it was Stephen Miller, if I'm recollecting correctly, 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.080 who said, oh, the nine decision was in our favor. 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:19.680 In other words, they already feel the need to undermine 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.359 the decision and to lie about it and to tell 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.680 a completely different story about it. And you can see 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.560 Vance doing this as well in some of the propaganda 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.439 that he's been putting out. So they're trying to create 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:34.480 an alternate story. And it's really important that the courts, 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.200 the media, and of course Republican politicians as well as 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:42.640 democratic politicians hold them to reality. You know, they need 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:44.680 to listen to what the court says, and they need 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:46.280 to abide by what the court says. 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.040 The reason that it's been able to go so fast 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.040 is because I think a lot of people in this 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.640 country have not had to ever be brave, and it's 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:59.359 a muscle that's sort of out of fashion right now. 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.439 Do you think that two? Or why do you think 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.640 that people have came in so many cases? 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.480 Maybe partly that it's maybe that there's no cultural memory 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.560 of anything like this happening before, whereas there is in 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.000 other countries, for example, in Brazil and South Korea, who 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.760 both done a better job of pushing back against dictatorial 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.119 presidents or presidents who are usurping too much power. You know, 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:24.440 I also think there was a complacency here. You heard 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.840 it during the election campaign. There was a complacency about 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:32.080 what could happen. You know, there's an idea of American exceptionalism. 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:34.080 You know that we are a special country and we've 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.879 had democracy for such a long time that none of 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.760 this could happen to us, And I think people were 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.720 just not mentally prepared for, you know, what was actually 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.439 a very very well planned, you know, long thought about 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.640 attack on specific institutions. I mean, there were one or two, 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:53.360 there have to be said, there were one or two 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.760 pieces of this that were unique. I don't know of 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.920 a previous case when an equivalent of DOGE went into 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.679 a government and you know, a set of engineers went 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:06.240 into a you know, a finance ministry or a treasury 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:09.760 department and just shut off programs illegally and in such 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.120 a way that nobody knew how to turn them back 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.680 on again, which is a continuing problem. And all kinds 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.639 of spheres of you know, in all kinds of ways. 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:19.880 And so they did do some things that were new 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:24.040 in the world of you know, declining democracy. Yeah, but 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:26.960 you know, but a lot of it was predictable and 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.600 could have been predicted. I mean, the attacks on universities 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:33.400 were predictable, and actually presidents of universities, some of whom 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:35.760 I've spoken to, did know it was coming and have 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:38.480 been thinking about it for a long time. And certainly 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:42.360 the attacks on the media and the attempts to circumvent 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:44.720 the rule of law, and certainly once let me just 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.879 return again to the cryptocracy. These are These are people 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:53.200 who think that it's okay for the president to spend 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:56.560 a weekend, then a weekend when the stock market is crashing, 0:19:57.000 --> 0:20:01.119 at his personal golf course and his Perersonal hotel where 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:04.080 a golf tournament is being played that is sponsored by 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:08.040 Saudi Arabia, and in attendance is the head of the 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:13.120 Saudi Sovereign Wealth Company and the Sovereign Wealth Fund and 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:16.720 aram Code are also sponsors. The Saudi Oil Company and 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.960 a series of other important Saudi business people are there, 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:22.720 and they are paying money to the president's golf course 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.760 and to the president's club, and nobody blinks an eye. 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.320 That's a conflict of interest. You know that Saudi Arabia 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.560 is a country that has a complex and relationship with 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:33.920 the United States. It cares very much what our foreign 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:37.400 policy is. And they are seeking to buy the president 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:39.800 in a way that's not even secret. It's not like 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.960 they're bribing him. The names of the sponsors of the 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:47.720 tournament are on billboards at Dorrall Golf Course and on websites. 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:51.760 The practice of this administration is now to openly flaunt 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.080 and enjoy conflicts of interests. I mean, Musk is another one. 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:59.399 Doje has attacked and fired people at regulatory agencies that 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.840 Musk's companies, and Musk now has to say in the 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.679 running of other agencies who subsidize his companies. In other words, 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:10.679 he is the beneficiary of the policies that he is 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.919 carrying out, the personal financial beneficiary. And that although you know, 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:17.199 there have been rich people involved in US politics for 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:18.760 a long time, and there have been lots of rich 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:20.760 people in the cabinet in the past, I am I 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:25.040 am unaware of anything this blatant. You know, where people 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.560 with an actual interest in a government decision get to 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:30.639 make that decision all by themselves. 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:34.399 What is interesting about it, too, is that one of 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:36.520 the things that you talked about on that article was 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:40.720 that TikTok was one of the sponsors of that golf tournament. 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:44.560 TikTok is so conflicted, but also the person who will 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:47.320 decide TikTok's fate is Donald Trump, right yep. 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:49.800 And TikTok is directly paying him. I mean they are 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:52.399 a sponsor of the tournament at his club. The club 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:54.919 is he makes money off of it. The actions of 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:59.400 TikTok or openly seeking to bribe are persuade the president 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:02.199 that they would like to stay in business. That a 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:06.800 website that collects vast amounts of data about Americans and 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:09.480 may well be sharing it with the Chinese Communist Party, 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:14.320 that website is seeking to win a regulatory decision through 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:19.320 influencing the president's personal financial decisions. Again, I can't state 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:23.280 enough how far out of line this is with certainly 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:26.080 the presidencies of the last century. Maybe if you go 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:28.640 back to the nineteenth century and the Gilded Age, you'll 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:31.119 find some similar level of conflict that I am not 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:36.399 aware of any president who's been personally courted by companies 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:40.399 and by foreign leaders who are also making financial contributions 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:41.160 to his businesses. 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:47.119 Yeah, it is absolutely just one of the kind of 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:52.560 most breson bits of self dealing that we've ever seen. 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:56.480 Tell Us, if we want to stop the cryptocracy and 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.720 the authoritarianism, what would you say are the mean things 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:01.280 this sort of call to action? 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:05.880 Here two things in particular, Number one, the next elections 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:09.879 by which I mean the midterms are unbelievably important. It 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:13.600 is really important that the Democrats win both the House 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:16.320 and the Senate, and it's also really important that they 0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:18.919 get they create a broad coalition to help them do it, 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:22.159 hopefully including some Republicans or people are Trump voters, and 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:25.200 it's very important that those elections be free and fair. 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:25.679 You know. 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:29.080 Again, in the list of things that Americans don't imagine, 0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:31.840 they probably don't imagine that it's possible to corrupt an 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:32.600 American election. 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:34.240 But it is. 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:38.360 I mean, there are multiple, many scenarios you can imagine, 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:40.600 and it's good that everybody prepares to. 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:41.159 Think about them. 0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:46.080 I mean, without being hysterical or creating anxiety. Just think 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:48.919 about whether there would be a you know, maybe they 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:51.160 are going to be protests, maybe there would be a crackdown, 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:53.840 maybe there would be a state of emergency, or maybe 0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:56.240 there would be changes to electoral laws that would affect 0:23:56.240 --> 0:23:58.880 who could vote. Just be prepared for that because it's 0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:02.480 extremely important that, you know, in a democracy, power is 0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:06.280 ultimately controlled in the by politicians in the political realm, 0:24:06.359 --> 0:24:09.160 and we need some power. We need Congress to come 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:12.800 back to playing its role of checking the president. You know, Congress, 0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:15.520 you know, Congress. Just to give one example, Congress could 0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:19.239 end this the tariff policy immediately if they wanted to. 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:22.040 The tariff side. The tarts are also illegal. They're being 0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:24.600 carried out in violation of treaties the United States has 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:27.680 signed on the basis of a kind of emergency law. 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:30.520 That's bullshit, and Congress could block that and take back 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:33.880 tariff power. Now, in our system, Congress has the power 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:36.320 of taxation and it controls the budget. They could take 0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:38.800 that back. They could end the role of DOGE, which 0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:42.840 is also acting illegally and ending programs and you know, 0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:45.399 and departments that have been agreed to by Congress, and 0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:47.280 you know, all those things could be brought to an end. 0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:50.320 It's really really important that these elections go well. I 0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:54.119 would also say, in the less political sphere, it's really 0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:57.640 important to create broad coalitions. You know, it's so obvious 0:24:57.640 --> 0:24:59.879 to me that all of the law firms in this 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:01.840 country need to be on the same side. I mean, 0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:04.080 it cannot be the case that Trump can pick them 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:07.239 off one by one or do a special deal with 0:25:07.280 --> 0:25:10.919 Paul Weiss and then you know, and then attack wilmer Hale. Ultimately, 0:25:10.960 --> 0:25:12.919 it's not going to work for anybody. It has to 0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:15.360 be okay for law firms to defend whoever they want 0:25:15.400 --> 0:25:17.639 and to have whatever clients they want. That's our tradition 0:25:17.760 --> 0:25:21.080 going back two centuries, and lawyers cannot allow that to 0:25:21.160 --> 0:25:23.960 be undermined. But the same is true of universities. You know, 0:25:24.000 --> 0:25:26.560 what would be really great would be not just for 0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:30.520 Harvard and MIT and a few very wealthy universities on 0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:33.479 the East Coast to be standing up, but for a 0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:37.320 coalition of universities who see the threat to one as 0:25:37.320 --> 0:25:39.880 a threat to all, to begin to speak in one voice. 0:25:39.960 --> 0:25:41.640 There's been a little bit of that. There have been 0:25:41.640 --> 0:25:45.760 some group lawsuits, particularly against the cuts in biomedical research 0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:51.119 and healthcare spending, which have affected some universities disproportionately, but 0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:53.520 not everybody has joined them. I mean, there's one interesting 0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:57.399 exam University of Alabama. University of Alabama Medical School. At 0:25:57.480 --> 0:25:59.639 least until recently, it was the largest employer in the 0:25:59.640 --> 0:26:03.040 city Bingham. It's a really important institution. They will also 0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:06.840 lose money from cuts to an age spending. So how 0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:09.840 about hearing from them? How about hearing from other Red 0:26:09.880 --> 0:26:14.119 state universities, from wider range of universities, All across the system. 0:26:14.600 --> 0:26:17.760 You know, we need some solidarity from universities, from law firms, 0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:21.360 from media. You know, the more they speak, you know, together, 0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:23.399 the harder it's going to be to undermine this. So 0:26:23.520 --> 0:26:26.680 I would start with those two things. You know, elections 0:26:26.680 --> 0:26:29.000 are important and our system. Elections are the main thing. 0:26:29.200 --> 0:26:32.080 Don't forget about them or dismiss them or think we 0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:34.840 can solve this with lawsuits. You know, elections really matter. 0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:37.520 And then I think solidarity matters and coalitions matter. 0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:42.040 Thank you, thank you, thank you, Anna. 0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:41.600 Thank you. 0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:47.359 Darryl Silver is an author and producer of over a 0:26:47.520 --> 0:26:53.119 dozen television shows, including The Apprentice. Welcome to Fast Politics. 0:26:52.680 --> 0:26:54.159 Daryl, thanks for having me. 0:26:54.680 --> 0:26:57.960 So you produced The Apprentice. You were one of the 0:26:58.040 --> 0:27:02.480 people who started tell us about your relationship with the Apprentices. 0:27:02.880 --> 0:27:05.000 So I came on at Concept. I was brought on 0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:07.400 literally the day I came on. I had to sign 0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:11.000 my contract before I could even told what the show was. Wow, Yeah, 0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:12.159 what did you think it was? 0:27:12.440 --> 0:27:12.600 Well? 0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:13.840 I didn't know, but I was a big fan of 0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:16.320 Survivor at the time. But Conrad Riggs, who is Mark 0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:19.840 Burnett's number two, hired me and I signed my contract 0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:21.920 and they said Okay, what's the show, and they said, 0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:23.680 it's Survivor in the City and the winner gets to 0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:26.000 be Donald Trump's prince for a year. I was then 0:27:26.119 --> 0:27:28.520 ushered into a room of like twenty some odd people 0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:33.080 who literally like signed the contract learned that walked into 0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:35.160 a room, was introduced as one of the creative guys 0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:36.960 on the show who will be developing the show for 0:27:37.080 --> 0:27:39.760 Mark Burnett, and the line was Survivor in the City 0:27:39.920 --> 0:27:42.520 winner gives me Donald Trump's apprentice for a year, and 0:27:42.720 --> 0:27:44.719 you need to figure out the format of the show 0:27:44.800 --> 0:27:47.639 before the network asks us. So I literally came on 0:27:47.720 --> 0:27:49.600 at Concept and when I went into that first meeting, 0:27:49.920 --> 0:27:52.480 I had just learned thirty seconds ago what the show 0:27:52.560 --> 0:27:55.160 was about. So I took out my little read book 0:27:55.200 --> 0:27:57.160 that I brought with me for notes and I still 0:27:57.200 --> 0:27:59.959 have it today. I created like probably half a dozen 0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:02.200 tasks that wound up getting in the show, in formats 0:28:02.200 --> 0:28:05.159 that wanted getting the show, including lemonade stand. While we 0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:08.600 were going around introducing ourselves in the room, I'm feverishly 0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:12.240 writing because I'm about to be asked, like what my 0:28:12.320 --> 0:28:14.760 ideas are that I just learned thirty seconds ago. So 0:28:14.960 --> 0:28:17.320 that's literally where I came on and then I did 0:28:17.359 --> 0:28:18.840 that for the first three seasons, and I was a 0:28:18.840 --> 0:28:20.680 producer on the first three seasons of the show. 0:28:20.880 --> 0:28:23.720 Did anyone ever become an apprentice to him? 0:28:23.760 --> 0:28:26.840 For a year afterward, I was in La doing this, 0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:29.240 and that was all kind of happening in New York. 0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:31.880 Although in season two and three I was on the set. 0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:34.320 In season one, there was a limited amount of us 0:28:34.400 --> 0:28:36.640 that actually went to the set, and so like, after 0:28:36.680 --> 0:28:39.240 all this happened, like we really weren't involved with that, 0:28:39.360 --> 0:28:41.640 because the whole show took on a mind of its 0:28:41.640 --> 0:28:43.440 own so quickly, it became such a big hit that 0:28:43.520 --> 0:28:45.280 it was like we were rushed back into season two 0:28:45.320 --> 0:28:47.480 and three, Like we weren't paying attention to what happened 0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:50.360 to season one. So I guess they did work for him. 0:28:50.680 --> 0:28:53.000 I mean, I think Bill worked in Chicago or something, 0:28:53.040 --> 0:28:55.840 But like, we weren't involved in that. Really, we weren't 0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:56.720 tracking that at all. 0:28:56.960 --> 0:29:01.080 In some ways, the Apprentice was as much a part 0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:04.640 of the origin story of Donald Trump as Donald Trump was, 0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:05.840 right well. 0:29:05.760 --> 0:29:08.480 It validated him. It took a guy who had, you know, 0:29:08.600 --> 0:29:11.520 ruined a lot of businesses. You know, he had bankrupt 0:29:11.600 --> 0:29:14.280 a lot of businesses and struggled in a lot of 0:29:14.320 --> 0:29:17.320 his real estate career. And then we validated him. We 0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:21.600 convinced America and the world that he was a business genius, 0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:23.800 you know. And that's what it did. It gave him 0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:24.640 some validation. 0:29:24.760 --> 0:29:25.240 True or not. 0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:28.400 You guys wrote it sort of without him. Was he 0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:30.000 involved in the writing of it. 0:29:30.000 --> 0:29:32.360 It was not involved at all. What happened is is 0:29:32.400 --> 0:29:34.560 like we developed the show. We would create the tasks, 0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:36.959 the format and all that, and then he was brought in. 0:29:36.960 --> 0:29:38.600 If you actually look at the show, he's not in 0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:41.160 the show that much. So at the beginning he'll say 0:29:41.200 --> 0:29:43.120 like here I am at Macy's, or here I am 0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:45.400 at this place, or here I'm at home depot, and 0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:47.320 then he disappears for the most of the show. And 0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:49.280 on an occasion he would show up in the middle 0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:52.320 of the show, but not every episode. And then he 0:29:52.360 --> 0:29:54.480 would obviously come to the boardroom at the end. And 0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:56.040 what would happen at the end of the show is 0:29:56.080 --> 0:29:58.840 like we'd be sitting in the control room and there'd 0:29:58.840 --> 0:30:01.000 be a lot of producers stand around him and we 0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:05.000 would download him on what happened during the week. I 0:30:05.040 --> 0:30:06.960 forget the other two people's name, but the people who 0:30:06.960 --> 0:30:08.800 work for him, they would pop in here and there 0:30:08.840 --> 0:30:10.840 and they would give him a download too, and then 0:30:10.960 --> 0:30:13.120 based on that information, he would go into the boardroom 0:30:13.160 --> 0:30:15.440 and he would you know, make his decisions. 0:30:16.360 --> 0:30:18.600 So did you get the sense when you were working 0:30:18.600 --> 0:30:20.760 on it that he was good at business or now? 0:30:20.920 --> 0:30:24.200 I did not. I wasn't involved in his day to 0:30:24.280 --> 0:30:26.640 day businesses. I didn't see it. But what surprised me, 0:30:26.680 --> 0:30:29.080 which is like everybody talks about Trump's lies, is that 0:30:29.280 --> 0:30:31.160 being in the middle of this, we would hear his 0:30:31.320 --> 0:30:34.200 lies that didn't need to be lies. I remember once 0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:36.520 he would he said like, we're the number one show 0:30:36.560 --> 0:30:38.320 in the history of the network, and we were laughing. 0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:41.080 We're like, we're an absolute hit show. We're doing fantastic, 0:30:41.160 --> 0:30:43.520 like on all metrics or a smash hit. And he 0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:45.720 would still have to get on camera and lie about it. 0:30:45.720 --> 0:30:47.800 And we were constantly like laughing at it, like why 0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:49.080 is he telling all these lies? 0:30:49.200 --> 0:30:50.840 Did you feel like you couldn't trust him? 0:30:51.080 --> 0:30:52.920 I mean, it wasn't matter trust and you remember he 0:30:53.280 --> 0:30:55.360 wasn't around that much, so it wasn't like, you know, 0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:59.200 Donald Trump wasn't giving us any direction. You know, Jay 0:30:59.240 --> 0:31:02.280 Beanstalk was our showrunner and he was really in charge 0:31:02.280 --> 0:31:05.160 of it, and Mark wasn't really there for the most part, 0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:06.800 and so it was like, you know, we were just 0:31:07.040 --> 0:31:09.200 We're just a TV show, you know, that's it. We're 0:31:09.240 --> 0:31:11.680 just we're just making TV. And a lot of a 0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:13.640 lot of people always ask me, They're like, you know, 0:31:13.720 --> 0:31:16.240 why didn't you do something? Why why don't you say something? 0:31:16.280 --> 0:31:18.840 And I'm always like, the guy was a real estate 0:31:18.880 --> 0:31:20.680 guy who thought he would become a president. 0:31:20.760 --> 0:31:22.520 You know, did you feel like he was smart? No, 0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:25.360 that's interesting. I mean, as simple as that, what led 0:31:25.440 --> 0:31:27.200 you to think that. Let me break it out. There's 0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:29.440 two different kinds of smarts. There's street smarts and then 0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:32.440 there's smart. There's no question he's street smart. He proves 0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:33.000 it every day. 0:31:33.120 --> 0:31:33.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:31:34.000 --> 0:31:37.760 His superpower is that he can convince whoever he's standing 0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:40.000 in front of that he's going to do for them 0:31:40.040 --> 0:31:42.320 what they want. Whatever your dream come true is. He 0:31:42.360 --> 0:31:44.800 will promise you within an hour, he'll promise that there's 0:31:44.800 --> 0:31:47.640 going to be clean coal to coal miners and then environmentalists, 0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:49.840 that he's going to be the best environmental president ever, 0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:52.160 and he'll do that. He'll do that without even thinking, 0:31:52.160 --> 0:31:54.480 without even skipping a bee. Yeah, you know, And that's 0:31:54.480 --> 0:31:56.640 his superpower, is that he's able to do that without 0:31:56.640 --> 0:31:58.600 a conscience in my opinion. 0:31:58.400 --> 0:32:00.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah, in your set and of like the 0:32:01.040 --> 0:32:03.960 experience of making television like that, do you think it 0:32:04.080 --> 0:32:07.640 helped him create the sort of skill set that he has. 0:32:07.560 --> 0:32:10.360 Now, No, I don't think he has a skill set. 0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:12.560 But you know, the skill set of like getting people 0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:13.400 to believe stuff. 0:32:13.480 --> 0:32:15.680 No, he was doing that already if you spent any 0:32:15.720 --> 0:32:17.760 time with him at all, Like he made the grips 0:32:17.760 --> 0:32:19.960 feel good about themselves as well as the guy on 0:32:20.000 --> 0:32:22.320 the street. He wanted to be liked. He had this 0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:25.440 gift of gab. Again, I think it's his superpower, is 0:32:25.480 --> 0:32:27.120 that he is. You know, people always asked me, would 0:32:27.120 --> 0:32:29.240 you think of Donald Trump? He was a really nice 0:32:29.240 --> 0:32:31.120 guy when we were there. I just, you know, I 0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:32.960 just don't think he should be a dog catcher. But 0:32:33.000 --> 0:32:34.680 he was charming and he was friendly, and he was 0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:36.640 always he was nice to us. I didn't I didn't 0:32:36.680 --> 0:32:38.200 have a bad thing to say about him. From a 0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:39.040 personal standpoint. 0:32:39.280 --> 0:32:41.920 I think it's really important that when we talk about him, 0:32:41.920 --> 0:32:45.680 we separate like how he is, how he is there's 0:32:45.720 --> 0:32:50.760 a reason that a plurality of Americans voted for him twice. 0:32:50.840 --> 0:32:54.040 And you know, he is a wildly successful politician. That's 0:32:54.120 --> 0:32:57.480 part of how we got here again. And he's able 0:32:57.520 --> 0:33:01.040 to do something that other Republicans are not. So I 0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:05.200 think that learning this stuff is actually really relevant and important. 0:33:05.440 --> 0:33:07.440 You know, you compare it to like the people who 0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:11.080 convince suicide bombers to kill themselves with seventy two virgins. 0:33:11.320 --> 0:33:14.120 If you pound enough time into people's head and they 0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:16.600 believe you, they'll do anything for you, including voting against 0:33:16.600 --> 0:33:18.840 their best interests. I mean, look at farmers today, Look 0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:20.840 at all the people losing jobs. Look at the immigrants 0:33:20.840 --> 0:33:23.000 who voted for him. I mean, like they're all getting 0:33:23.000 --> 0:33:27.200 shellacked right now. He convinced them against all their better judgment. 0:33:27.280 --> 0:33:29.920 You look at cities right now that are losing education 0:33:30.040 --> 0:33:33.200 funding and all the red states that they can't afford 0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:34.880 to lose any of it, and they're losing all and 0:33:35.200 --> 0:33:37.080 it's all because he convinced them that this was best 0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:39.360 for him. That's his genius. I mean, that's his genius. 0:33:39.520 --> 0:33:41.840 And you saw that even in the boardroom. 0:33:42.080 --> 0:33:43.640 I'll tell you what I saw in the boardroom. That 0:33:43.760 --> 0:33:46.120 was interesting, Like we would give him the download of 0:33:46.160 --> 0:33:48.720 what happened during the episode, it'd be obvious, like Molly 0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:50.640 did this and so and so did this, and like 0:33:50.720 --> 0:33:53.160 it would be obvious he obviously made all the decisions 0:33:53.160 --> 0:33:54.960 what he wanted to do and who he wanted to fire. 0:33:55.000 --> 0:33:57.160 But every once in a while, somebody who was like 0:33:57.200 --> 0:34:00.480 a tangential person in the task or whatever said something 0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:02.160 he didn't like and he would just go, you're fired, 0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:05.120 and you'd be like, and you'd hear the control room 0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:07.400 everybody would freeze, because there was it was always like 0:34:07.440 --> 0:34:10.000 a like an order with which things were supposed to 0:34:10.000 --> 0:34:12.719 happen to lead up to the firing. And sometimes he 0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:14.479 would go out of order and he would just fire 0:34:14.520 --> 0:34:16.880 somebody way before we got all the bites that we needed, 0:34:16.920 --> 0:34:18.880 and you would be like, what just happened? Why did 0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:20.880 he fire that person? Like that person had nothing to 0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:23.239 do with the downfall of the team or something like that, 0:34:23.320 --> 0:34:25.160 And so you know, you look at somebody who's just 0:34:25.200 --> 0:34:28.080 it's just not logical, and which is what we're seeing today, 0:34:28.160 --> 0:34:30.400 is like he's doing all these things that aren't logical 0:34:30.600 --> 0:34:31.560 and you're just like, why is. 0:34:31.480 --> 0:34:31.960 He doing them? 0:34:32.000 --> 0:34:34.319 And he's got his people who go on camera and 0:34:34.400 --> 0:34:36.920 like he knows what he's doing. He's playing you know, 0:34:37.520 --> 0:34:40.480 you know, four level chests and you're just like, he's not. 0:34:40.960 --> 0:34:44.439 But that's really an interesting thing you're talking about there, 0:34:44.480 --> 0:34:48.120 because that is what we see today, right, We see 0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:51.880 that kind of like unpredictable for the tariffs. I mean, 0:34:52.040 --> 0:34:54.640 like he sort of gets is it. You think it's 0:34:54.800 --> 0:34:57.279 emotional on some level or just. 0:34:57.400 --> 0:34:59.680 Angry if you want to go down to like the 0:34:59.680 --> 0:35:03.319 most basic level. My opinion is that everything he does 0:35:03.400 --> 0:35:05.919 is either to benefit Donald Trump or to protect Donald Trump, 0:35:05.920 --> 0:35:07.839 and he really doesn't care about the rest. Had not 0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:11.120 he been trying to stay out of jail, who knows 0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:12.880 if he would have even run. If not that he 0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:15.879 was getting actually shellacked in his businesses and losing money, 0:35:15.920 --> 0:35:18.200 he wouldn't be pulling all these grifts that he's doing 0:35:18.280 --> 0:35:20.960 now to raise money. Whether it's whether it's shoes, or 0:35:21.000 --> 0:35:23.400 whether it's the coin, or whether it's all of these things. 0:35:23.480 --> 0:35:26.720 It's really all Donald Trump's centric. It's not about the country, 0:35:26.760 --> 0:35:29.440 it's not about really anything. It's about how he gets 0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:30.160 what he needs. 0:35:30.200 --> 0:35:32.960 In my opinion, yeah, oh yeah, let's talk about this 0:35:33.000 --> 0:35:35.920 bill Maher thing because Bill Maher went tomorrow Laga the 0:35:35.960 --> 0:35:39.560 Winter White House to see Donald Trump. Can you explain 0:35:39.640 --> 0:35:42.120 to us your take on that what you think happened there. 0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:44.120 Look, I've been watching Bill Maher for years, and I 0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:46.440 think Bill Maher is a smart guy. It wasn't as 0:35:46.560 --> 0:35:48.839 much that Bill Maher went there and met with him. 0:35:49.160 --> 0:35:51.480 It's that when he came out, he was like, he's 0:35:51.520 --> 0:35:53.440 not you know, basically his line is and I'd have 0:35:53.480 --> 0:35:55.880 to look it up and the thing I wrote, but 0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:58.520 he's like, he wasn't the crazy person that he saw 0:35:58.800 --> 0:36:02.120 on TV every day. He was like a nice, normal person, 0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:05.000 you know. He was charming, he was all these things. 0:36:05.000 --> 0:36:09.120 And it's like, yeah, most dictators and tyrants historically when 0:36:09.120 --> 0:36:10.960 you sit with them, were nice guys, but then they 0:36:11.000 --> 0:36:14.320 went and did all this crazy shit that destroyed the world. 0:36:14.400 --> 0:36:17.319 And basically Trump's inherent thing is he wants people to 0:36:17.360 --> 0:36:19.359 love him. He really wants to be loved. He wants 0:36:19.360 --> 0:36:21.000 people like him, he wants people love him. He wants 0:36:21.000 --> 0:36:23.520 to feel like the big macher, you know, and and 0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:25.439 if you give him that, he loves it. So Bill 0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:27.759 Mark came to meet him at the White House and 0:36:27.920 --> 0:36:30.360 like sat with him, and it was a nice meeting 0:36:30.560 --> 0:36:32.600 and with Kid Rock and I believe the guy from 0:36:32.680 --> 0:36:33.279 usc was. 0:36:33.200 --> 0:36:35.200 There a beautiful piece of chocolate cake. 0:36:35.280 --> 0:36:38.120 Maybe yeah, exactly, And so like he's gonna be charming, 0:36:38.239 --> 0:36:40.160 just like he was charming with us, and he's charming 0:36:40.200 --> 0:36:42.120 with everybody. And then you leave and you go like, 0:36:42.160 --> 0:36:45.000 well he was a charming guy. This charming guy like 0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:48.480 just sent all these people to a death camp in Salvador. 0:36:48.719 --> 0:36:51.040 It's like, yeah, he was nice, but what does that mean? 0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:53.120 And in since Bill Maher had that as like his 0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:55.400 first line out to the public, it was like, are 0:36:55.440 --> 0:36:58.319 you joking? Like are you just wiping all the things 0:36:58.320 --> 0:37:00.880 that he's doing and you see he's doing just because 0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:02.920 he was nice to you at a dinner. It's like 0:37:03.040 --> 0:37:05.440 it's madness and it's what Trump does and it's how 0:37:05.440 --> 0:37:06.680 he lulls people into this. 0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:09.920 But it's interesting because it's like, and you probably relate 0:37:10.000 --> 0:37:13.239 to this too, Like I meet people sometimes a lot 0:37:13.280 --> 0:37:15.920 of times they're very nice to me. Does that mean 0:37:15.960 --> 0:37:19.239 they're going to be nice to everyone? Maybe not? Right, 0:37:19.400 --> 0:37:23.560 Like Bill obviously has a real place in Donald Trump's mind, 0:37:23.960 --> 0:37:28.120 so of course, like why would he be mean to Bill? Right? 0:37:28.239 --> 0:37:29.880 Why would Bill come out with the first line that 0:37:29.920 --> 0:37:33.520 he say be complimentary towards Trump? That's the crazy thing. 0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:36.000 It's like, tell us what you discussed, tell us how 0:37:36.040 --> 0:37:39.000 he responds to all the things he's doing. Give us, 0:37:39.239 --> 0:37:42.719 give us an insight into policy. That's what I want 0:37:42.760 --> 0:37:44.440 to know, and not that he was nice to you 0:37:44.480 --> 0:37:47.200 and you guys had a nice dinner. Like nobody gives 0:37:47.239 --> 0:37:49.000 a shit that you guys had a nice dinner. 0:37:49.080 --> 0:37:52.600 Well, it's also just like, there are things that you 0:37:52.680 --> 0:37:55.800 could find out about Trump that would be quite useful 0:37:56.400 --> 0:37:59.480 for all of us, right, that would make sense? 0:37:59.560 --> 0:38:02.439 That would You've seen Trump being interviewed by a lot 0:38:02.440 --> 0:38:05.960 of people. He gives very little true information when he's 0:38:06.000 --> 0:38:08.160 doing when he's doing an interview, I mean, the guy, 0:38:08.480 --> 0:38:10.560 if you ask him a direct question that he doesn't 0:38:10.600 --> 0:38:13.200 like it just pretends is if that question was never 0:38:13.280 --> 0:38:16.160 asks and starts talking about some other thing. 0:38:16.320 --> 0:38:18.560 By the way, that's a New York rich people thing, 0:38:18.760 --> 0:38:21.080 because I've had other people do it to me before, 0:38:21.360 --> 0:38:23.640 and I'll be like, am I going crazy because I 0:38:23.800 --> 0:38:26.239 just asked you a question about something totally and they 0:38:26.320 --> 0:38:29.400 just talk about something else. It's like brilliant gas lighting. 0:38:29.880 --> 0:38:31.359 Well, you know what he's been doing. I mean, if 0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:33.640 you look what he's been doing in the White House meetings, 0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:35.120 Like he had all the press in there the other 0:38:35.200 --> 0:38:38.919 day and they asked him directly about kill mar Abrego Garcia, 0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:41.080 and like he was like, that's a rude question, and 0:38:41.120 --> 0:38:43.359 then he went off on some tangent. It's like, that's 0:38:43.360 --> 0:38:45.520 the question we all want to know. So he's smart 0:38:45.640 --> 0:38:48.000 enough not to answer the questions that he doesn't want 0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:52.319 to answer, which is frankly as opposed to the very 0:38:52.400 --> 0:38:55.520 very very friendly media every question. 0:38:55.480 --> 0:38:59.000 Right, right, No, that's a really good point. And I 0:38:59.080 --> 0:39:03.239 think that, you know, that is instructive in a lot 0:39:03.280 --> 0:39:07.160 of ways. So he's a creature of reality television. What 0:39:07.239 --> 0:39:10.120 do you think it was in this show that made 0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:14.200 him so appealing to the world. 0:39:14.640 --> 0:39:16.879 I think people look at Donald Trump and see him 0:39:16.880 --> 0:39:19.480 as an everyman and think I could be that man, 0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:22.279 Like I could that could be me, you know, and 0:39:22.320 --> 0:39:25.400 then they like that he says things for a large 0:39:25.440 --> 0:39:28.400 portion of our population. He's willing to say the things 0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:31.400 that a lot of people aren't willing to say. And 0:39:31.400 --> 0:39:33.080 he's like, oh my god, he'll say things that I 0:39:33.080 --> 0:39:36.000 would like to say. He gives a certain portion of 0:39:36.040 --> 0:39:39.360 our public the right to say things that normally you 0:39:39.360 --> 0:39:42.560 wouldn't say out loud. And on the TV show, I mean, 0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:45.600 he was likable, he was funny, he was friendly. You know, 0:39:45.680 --> 0:39:49.480 he made big decisions. You saw him in you know, 0:39:49.920 --> 0:39:51.680 this is how the rich live. You know, we love 0:39:51.760 --> 0:39:53.920 to see behind the curtain of how rich people live. 0:39:54.000 --> 0:39:55.879 And you saw it. And by the way, the show 0:39:55.960 --> 0:39:58.839 was super entertaining. I mean, there's no doubt about it. 0:39:58.880 --> 0:40:00.960 Like when we first developed the show and we'd be 0:40:01.000 --> 0:40:04.000 sitting around talking about business tasks, we would say it 0:40:04.000 --> 0:40:06.200 to ourselves, like, is anybody gonna want to watch this 0:40:06.320 --> 0:40:09.520 at all? And they didn't watch it for the business tasks. 0:40:09.600 --> 0:40:12.719 They watched it because Trump was so charismatic. And yeah, 0:40:12.719 --> 0:40:15.600 there was great drama with the two teams and whatnot, 0:40:15.640 --> 0:40:17.560 but like, you know, that's really what it was. So 0:40:17.600 --> 0:40:19.520 when when the show became a massive hit, we sat 0:40:19.560 --> 0:40:21.560 around and we were like, we're genius. Is like, we 0:40:21.600 --> 0:40:23.239 never thought a million years it was going to be 0:40:23.239 --> 0:40:25.440 this mashion it was. When we came back, were like, 0:40:25.480 --> 0:40:27.440 we weren't just as surprised as everybody else that it 0:40:27.520 --> 0:40:30.799 was like this big hit. But because of his personality. 0:40:30.800 --> 0:40:31.480 That's what it was. 0:40:31.960 --> 0:40:36.319 So you think ultimately that sort of ability to make 0:40:36.400 --> 0:40:39.160 everyone like him was what did it? 0:40:39.320 --> 0:40:41.920 Who's a politician who was a football. 0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:43.160 Coach, Tommy Tuberville. 0:40:43.400 --> 0:40:47.239 How is Tommy Tuberville like in government? You know what 0:40:47.280 --> 0:40:49.759 I mean? But it's because people loved the guy. They 0:40:49.760 --> 0:40:51.440 loved him for his coaching, they loved the things he 0:40:51.480 --> 0:40:54.040 had to say, They love he was outspoken. And now 0:40:54.080 --> 0:40:56.000 he's running a state. You know, he's one of the 0:40:56.000 --> 0:40:58.040 heads of a state. I mean, it's no different when 0:40:58.080 --> 0:41:00.879 you look at any celebrity who really, inherently you don't 0:41:00.880 --> 0:41:03.640 think would be in government, has no experience in government, 0:41:03.680 --> 0:41:07.240 doesn't understand clear, simple policies how they get to these positions. 0:41:07.320 --> 0:41:09.160 The same thing with Trump. There's always a time in 0:41:09.200 --> 0:41:12.279 our society where everybody wants an outsider. We don't want 0:41:12.280 --> 0:41:14.440 an insider. We don't want somebody who actually knows how 0:41:14.480 --> 0:41:16.319 to run the government. If we could just get this 0:41:16.440 --> 0:41:20.800 genius businessman to run this business of America, like, everything 0:41:20.840 --> 0:41:23.080 will be great, even though the two skill sets have 0:41:23.160 --> 0:41:25.440 nothing to do with one another. And that's what he 0:41:25.600 --> 0:41:28.480 convinced people, and that's what then people wanted. That twice 0:41:28.719 --> 0:41:30.520 Thank you, Darren, thank you. 0:41:32.440 --> 0:41:35.040 And now we have a clip from our YouTube channel 0:41:35.080 --> 0:41:39.480 with Dave Serota from The Lever, who also is the 0:41:39.560 --> 0:41:43.280 creator of the podcast The master Plan and the screenplay 0:41:43.280 --> 0:41:46.800 author of the movie Don't Look Up. Welcome Too Fast Politics. 0:41:46.840 --> 0:41:48.839 David, thank you, thanks for having me. 0:41:49.040 --> 0:41:51.759 So you and I are like absolutely on the same 0:41:51.800 --> 0:41:54.560 page today. We both wrote our columns. You wrote your 0:41:54.600 --> 0:41:56.839 column in the Guardian. I wrote my common Vanity fair 0:41:57.160 --> 0:42:00.920 about exactly the same thing, which is where I think 0:42:00.960 --> 0:42:03.719 the smart money is in the Democratic Party right now. 0:42:03.800 --> 0:42:08.960 So I want you to explain to our listeners why 0:42:09.080 --> 0:42:14.200 you think that Trump's tariffs are a winner for deams. 0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:17.840 I think they're a winner for a particular kind of 0:42:17.920 --> 0:42:22.400 dem I think obviously the tariffs creating chaos for the 0:42:22.520 --> 0:42:28.120 economy is bad for the incumbent party and probably structurally, 0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:31.759 I guess, politically good for the opposition party. I mean, 0:42:31.760 --> 0:42:36.640 I think it's bad for really every unless you're a billionaire, and. 0:42:36.719 --> 0:42:37.920 Even then. 0:42:39.760 --> 0:42:41.000 A lot of ye billionaire. 0:42:41.120 --> 0:42:44.800 Yeah, good point. So I think there's a way for 0:42:45.120 --> 0:42:50.240 Democrats to be criticizing the kinds of tariffs, the kinds 0:42:50.239 --> 0:42:54.000 of trade policies Trump is putting into effect. Uh, there's 0:42:54.000 --> 0:42:57.720 a very strong argument that they're so broad, they're so inconsistent, 0:42:58.440 --> 0:43:01.440 they're so sort of hap has there's no indication to 0:43:01.480 --> 0:43:04.359 suggest they're going to achieve anything that Trump says they 0:43:04.400 --> 0:43:08.239 are right. If you're trying to reshore American jobs that 0:43:08.320 --> 0:43:13.080 have been offshore, for example, you probably want to put 0:43:13.080 --> 0:43:17.399 in tariffs that have a timetable for implementation to give 0:43:17.480 --> 0:43:23.040 industries a chance to rebuild and make capital investments, rebuild 0:43:23.080 --> 0:43:27.839 factories in the United States that really hasn't happened. If 0:43:27.840 --> 0:43:30.920 you want to get companies to make giant capital investments 0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:34.000 in the United States, you probably want to show that 0:43:34.080 --> 0:43:37.560 the policies you're putting into place are permanent and stable, 0:43:37.920 --> 0:43:40.600 rather than waking up every six hours and saying, oh, 0:43:40.600 --> 0:43:42.839 we're going to do this exemption or that exemption. How 0:43:42.920 --> 0:43:45.200 is any business supposed to invest in that. So the 0:43:45.239 --> 0:43:48.320 point is that the Democrats have a really good argument 0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:51.560 to make that these tariffs are going to harm the 0:43:51.600 --> 0:43:56.560 working class and America in general. Now one caveat. I 0:43:56.600 --> 0:44:00.759 think if the Democrats take that to its extreme and 0:44:00.800 --> 0:44:07.239 say all industrial policy, all tariffs are bad, that the 0:44:07.360 --> 0:44:12.120 NAFTA trade paradigm and the China free trade paradigm. All 0:44:12.160 --> 0:44:16.239 of that is good, then I think they walk into 0:44:16.280 --> 0:44:20.080 a trap that Trump wants them to walk into, and 0:44:20.120 --> 0:44:23.040 I think there's evidence that parts of the party don't 0:44:23.080 --> 0:44:27.399 really understand the trap that Trump is trying to lay 0:44:27.400 --> 0:44:27.719 for them. 0:44:27.880 --> 0:44:29.600 First, I want to just go back to what you 0:44:29.640 --> 0:44:33.000 were saying, seventy percent of Americans believe the tariffs are 0:44:33.000 --> 0:44:35.400 going to be bad for the economy on the short term. 0:44:35.840 --> 0:44:38.600 You don't get seventy percent of Americans who agree on anything. 0:44:38.800 --> 0:44:41.880 Those are incredible numbers, and I think that that should 0:44:41.960 --> 0:44:44.440 be sort of the foundation of all of this. But 0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:48.000 the thing that I think will likely do the best 0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:52.480 for the opposition party, which Democrats need to be, is 0:44:52.719 --> 0:44:57.080 the haphazardous and the way that none of this has 0:44:57.120 --> 0:45:00.400 been thought out, which is what we write so like 0:45:00.440 --> 0:45:03.080 for example, and I want to get into this, the 0:45:03.160 --> 0:45:09.439 reshoring reshoring manufacturing is like one of the goals here, right, 0:45:09.560 --> 0:45:13.560 restoring manufacturing. But you can't reshore manufacturing just by making 0:45:13.560 --> 0:45:17.000 things more expensive. Chips and Science had a goal of 0:45:17.080 --> 0:45:22.600 reshoring manufacturing. Really like reshoring these high paying manufacturing jobs, 0:45:22.640 --> 0:45:25.440 which are chips. A chips assembly line is a much 0:45:25.440 --> 0:45:29.319 better job than a Sneaker's assembly line, and that was 0:45:29.360 --> 0:45:33.520 the thinking here, but because they could not articulate it, 0:45:33.520 --> 0:45:36.360 it got lost. And so now here we have Trump 0:45:36.520 --> 0:45:39.600 trying to do the same thing, but because there's no 0:45:39.840 --> 0:45:43.400 there's never any sort of thinking behind anything, we're here instead. 0:45:43.760 --> 0:45:47.439 That's a really good point. The Biden administration, it got 0:45:47.480 --> 0:45:52.640 the policy actually right that Biden. That Biden used targeted 0:45:52.680 --> 0:45:58.120 tariffs on specific industries as part of a coordinated industrial policy. 0:45:58.200 --> 0:46:00.680 For instance, the Chips Act, as you mentioned, which which 0:46:00.800 --> 0:46:06.000 invests actually uses money resources to invest the Inflation Reduction Act, 0:46:06.000 --> 0:46:10.120 which uses tax credits and other investment tools along with 0:46:10.320 --> 0:46:15.839 targeted tariffs. And we saw manufacturing jobs start to come 0:46:15.880 --> 0:46:19.000 back in the United States and factory investments start to 0:46:19.040 --> 0:46:22.200 be made by the way, many of which were made 0:46:22.600 --> 0:46:26.399 in red states, in Republican states. The problem was, as 0:46:26.400 --> 0:46:30.120 you allude to, the Biden administration never sold it. They 0:46:30.200 --> 0:46:34.480 never made it part of their political pitch to the country. 0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:38.120 Kamala Harris didn't, the Democratic Party didn't. And now you 0:46:38.160 --> 0:46:43.040 have a situation where Trump is trying to take the 0:46:43.440 --> 0:46:49.560 political themes of reshoring American jobs, brand it to himself, 0:46:49.920 --> 0:46:56.320 but with a completely unacceptable, reckless and haphazard policy. And again, 0:46:56.440 --> 0:46:58.920 I think the Democrats have a story to tell about 0:46:58.920 --> 0:47:03.239 how the hap has ears of Trump's policy is imperiling 0:47:03.280 --> 0:47:06.520 the country. But I think they could make a political 0:47:06.600 --> 0:47:11.080 mistake by allowing Trump to brand them once again as 0:47:11.120 --> 0:47:14.160 he did in twenty sixteen, to brand them as the 0:47:14.200 --> 0:47:17.520 party of NAFTA style trade policy. 0:47:17.719 --> 0:47:17.879 Right. 0:47:17.920 --> 0:47:21.160 I think this has been forgotten. There are large swaths 0:47:21.200 --> 0:47:27.120 of this country that used to be democratic regions, democratic strongholds, 0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:34.240 that were hollowed out by so called free trade deals NAFTA, China, 0:47:34.280 --> 0:47:36.960 p and tr And I think that is a very 0:47:37.160 --> 0:47:41.120 real issue, that is a very authentic concern for those 0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:44.120 communities that went through that and that continue to go 0:47:44.239 --> 0:47:47.080 through that. And I think if the Democrats sort of 0:47:47.440 --> 0:47:52.319 scoff at that grievance, they play into what Trump wants 0:47:52.360 --> 0:47:55.200 them to do. And here's the other polling number that 0:47:55.320 --> 0:47:59.520 I think has been forgotten that while the public is 0:47:59.520 --> 0:48:04.520 opposed to Trump's tariff policy, on the actual policy merits 0:48:04.920 --> 0:48:09.280 for the first time in generations, At the same time, 0:48:09.719 --> 0:48:13.920 the Republicans have evened the playing field on the question 0:48:14.040 --> 0:48:18.959 of who cares about you? That question in polling, who 0:48:19.080 --> 0:48:21.800 most cares about you. For the first time really in 0:48:22.280 --> 0:48:25.200 modern polling history, the Republican Party has now pulled even 0:48:25.200 --> 0:48:28.480 with Democrats. So my theory here is, and I would 0:48:28.560 --> 0:48:32.960 speculate that what's going on here is that large, you know, 0:48:33.120 --> 0:48:35.360 majorities of the country are like, hey, Trump is not 0:48:35.440 --> 0:48:38.120 handling the is not managing the economy, right, he doesn't 0:48:38.120 --> 0:48:39.759 know what he's doing with these tariffs. The tariffs are 0:48:39.760 --> 0:48:42.800 going to be bad for me. On the policy, it's clear, 0:48:43.040 --> 0:48:46.000 but hey, you know, he's also talking about this issue 0:48:46.040 --> 0:48:49.840 trade and tariffs and reshoring jobs and what happened to America. 0:48:50.239 --> 0:48:54.000 And so even if we don't think he's right on 0:48:54.200 --> 0:48:59.160 the policy, he's at least talking about this issue that 0:48:59.400 --> 0:49:02.640 very few politicians have wanted to talk about, which shows 0:49:02.719 --> 0:49:06.080 where the perception is is that he's on our side. 0:49:06.120 --> 0:49:08.800 And I think that is that's the dichotomy that we're in. 0:49:08.880 --> 0:49:11.160 Obviously I don't think he's on our side, but my 0:49:11.239 --> 0:49:13.399 point is is that that's the tension here. 0:49:13.480 --> 0:49:17.439 To hear more of that segment, head over to our 0:49:17.480 --> 0:49:26.239 YouTube channel No More Perfectly Jesse Cannon, Small. 0:49:26.120 --> 0:49:30.200 Junk fast Man. You know, when we started to hear 0:49:30.280 --> 0:49:33.680 Trump years ago talk about which hunts against him. We 0:49:33.760 --> 0:49:36.080 kind of knew if he got back into power, exactly 0:49:36.160 --> 0:49:39.000 what he be doing and what he's doing James here 0:49:39.200 --> 0:49:40.640 is exactly what we suspected. 0:49:41.040 --> 0:49:44.600 Yeah, so he is going to do a fake investigation 0:49:44.719 --> 0:49:49.400 of her. So he basically, according to a letter obtained 0:49:50.040 --> 0:49:53.240 by the euro Post, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch 0:49:53.400 --> 0:49:56.759 and is Donald Trump's favorite outlet because he still lives 0:49:56.800 --> 0:49:59.960 in the nineties, she launched a civil fraud case again 0:50:00.160 --> 0:50:03.359 Trump and his business empire in twenty twenty two. So 0:50:03.680 --> 0:50:08.640 now this US Attorney General Pam Bondi is alleging that 0:50:08.760 --> 0:50:13.279 James falsified records in twenty twenty three to secure home 0:50:13.320 --> 0:50:16.359 loans on a property in Norfolk, Virginia that she said 0:50:16.400 --> 0:50:20.000 was her principal residence while still serving in her role 0:50:20.200 --> 0:50:24.040 in New York. This is while James is announcing a 0:50:24.080 --> 0:50:29.000 new investigation into the President over accusations of insider trading. 0:50:29.480 --> 0:50:32.600 The accusations arose in the wake of his u turn 0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:37.239 on the Reciprocal Theraists last week, after the program's unraveling 0:50:37.400 --> 0:50:41.440 inspired a panic on Wall Street. Writing to Bondy and 0:50:41.520 --> 0:50:45.080 her deputy Todd Blanche, who you will remember as Donald 0:50:45.080 --> 0:50:49.160 Trump's defense lawyer. Miss James was the sitting Attorney General 0:50:49.160 --> 0:50:50.759 of New York and is required by a low to 0:50:50.800 --> 0:50:53.279 have her primary residents in the state of New York, 0:50:53.480 --> 0:50:56.960 even though her mortgage application lists her intent to have 0:50:57.080 --> 0:51:00.360 the Norfolk, Virginia property as her primary home. Is like 0:51:00.480 --> 0:51:06.600 going after someone for a crime that includes not filing 0:51:06.920 --> 0:51:11.479 a form. Right, but this is what they do. That's 0:51:11.640 --> 0:51:18.000 it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, 0:51:18.239 --> 0:51:22.719 Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics 0:51:22.800 --> 0:51:27.080 make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, 0:51:27.440 --> 0:51:30.880 please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 0:51:31.320 --> 0:51:32.480 Thanks for listening.