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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and a CBS Yougo poll finds fifty

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Speaker 1: eight percent of Americans want Congress to block Trump's tariffs.

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Speaker 1: We have such a great choke for you today the

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Speaker 1: Atlantics and Applebaum stops by to explain that our authoritarian

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Speaker 1: rise is actually happening faster than normal. Then we'll talk

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Speaker 1: to former The Apprentice producer Darryl Silver about what we

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Speaker 1: can learn from what he saw working with Trump. Plus,

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Speaker 1: we have a special bonus from our YouTube channel with

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Speaker 1: the Levers Dave Sarota on how Democrats can use Trump's

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Speaker 1: tariffs to win. But first the news Smike.

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Speaker 2: We have Dave Serota from The Lever on this podcast

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Speaker 2: a little later and on our YouTube channel today and

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Speaker 2: his news organization as a blockbuster story that Trump's irs

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Speaker 2: pick was just enriched by tech schemers and that they

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Speaker 2: paid down one hundred and thirty thousand dollars of his

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Speaker 2: personal debt.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, this is happening all over the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration, so none of us should be surprised. But

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Speaker 1: this is a new document show that Billy Long. He

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Speaker 1: was a member of Congress or Republican member of Congress.

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Speaker 1: One hundred and thirty thousand dollars in personal debt was

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Speaker 1: suddenly paid off by donors at a firm policed by

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Speaker 1: the tax agency he lead. By the way, this Trump

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Speaker 1: administration has been through a ton of different You'll be

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Speaker 1: shocked to know this. IRS directors, this is the acting

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Speaker 1: head of the IRS is stepping down and retiring. It's

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Speaker 1: just been like a cascade of resignations IRS chief Information

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Speaker 1: Officer and by the way, twenty thousand IRS employees offered

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Speaker 1: to resign because Trump has been trying to streamline the

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Speaker 1: IRS and make it very tiny. So you should not

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Speaker 1: be surprised. And look, this is like low key cleptocracy here.

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Speaker 1: Paying off the loans of the government agency that is

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Speaker 1: supposed to monitor you political contributions is one of the

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Speaker 1: many ways in which Trump's people grift off this administration.

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Speaker 2: Governor Gavin Newsom's California is now the first state to

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Speaker 2: suit Trump on tariffs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about this Governor Gavin Newsom. He is

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Speaker 1: a bad podcaster, but he is in some way as

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Speaker 1: a good governor.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of somebody starting a podcast and

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Speaker 2: having their polls fall because of it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's so stupid. And again, I just want to

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Speaker 1: just for one second, let's just go over this again

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Speaker 1: with Newsom Gavin. If you're listening, I want to say

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Speaker 1: one thing. You want to go on their podcasts. You

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Speaker 1: don't want them to come on your podcast. You need

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Speaker 1: to get in front of the audience that listens to

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Speaker 1: Steve Bannon, not get Steve Bannon in front of your audience.

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Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying. Go on Steve Bannon's podcast,

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Speaker 1: don't have Steve Bannon go on your podcast. This is

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Speaker 1: how this works. This is the siloed media industrial complex.

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Speaker 1: Go to them, don't bring them to you. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: and good night. But yes, this is good. California is

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Speaker 1: the fifth largest economy in the world. They will be absolutely,

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Speaker 1: like all of us, completely fucked over by tariffs. I'm

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Speaker 1: glad they're doing this. By the way, tariff's are a

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Speaker 1: really good example of how stupid and bad this administration is.

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Speaker 1: Right Like, they don't work, nobody wants them. They make

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Speaker 1: everything more expensive. They're not going to onshore manufacturing by

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Speaker 1: making things more expensive. There does not like one plus

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Speaker 1: two dozen equal seven thousand. So I am glad to

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Speaker 1: see this. I wish that we would see, you know,

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Speaker 1: the rage that people are having about the tariffs, about

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Speaker 1: the like grad student disappearing right, that grad student is

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Speaker 1: still in the Louisiana detention facility after having written it

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Speaker 1: opinion piece, right, So that stuff I would rather. I

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Speaker 1: wish people would be a little more upset about that

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Speaker 1: than the tariffs. But good for California. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I think more importantly, I think there's a real chance

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Speaker 1: that none of this, you know, this is going to

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Speaker 1: stop the tariffs. Between this and the Supreme Court case,

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Speaker 1: I actually think that will actually work, so good for them.

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Speaker 1: And like with so many things Trump is trying to do,

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Speaker 1: there is no legal standing for it.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of no legal standing, we used to have this

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Speaker 2: bipartisan consensus that no one would ever ever contend that

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Speaker 2: the sole due process thing is one of the things

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Speaker 2: that makes America great. Well that's gone now because jad

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Speaker 2: Vince says he's fine with the inevitable errors of due process.

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Speaker 1: Jd Vance has been shopping this all day on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: He is like, we shouldn't have to process for illegals

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Speaker 1: or for people who are non American citizens. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I want to point out that this administration and these

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Speaker 1: Republicans have for a while been saying that that people

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Speaker 1: who are not in this country legally are not entitled

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Speaker 1: to due process. And what we saw very clearly from

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court nine zero is that, in fact, no,

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Speaker 1: that's not true. So it is so JD Vance by

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Speaker 1: the way, to have JD Vance being like, no, you know,

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court already said you can't do this, JD.

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Speaker 1: So like, here's the deal. You don't get to do it,

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Speaker 1: Like that's it. And again I think it's worth remembering

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Speaker 1: like they are trying to do a lot of illegal

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Speaker 1: stuff because they want to, and we need to push

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Speaker 1: back and say n because no, no, no, no, this

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Speaker 1: is not okay. This is not what any of us

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Speaker 1: should be doing. And he's wrong. The Supreme Court won't

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Speaker 1: go along with this, and he's going to try because

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Speaker 1: he's super sketchy, but just ignore it. He's wrong. It's

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Speaker 1: not going to happen. Thank god we have the courts.

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Speaker 2: So, speaking of we have seen a very very big

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Speaker 2: tide shift in the Democratic base, and there's a new

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Speaker 2: poll from Harvard Center for American Political studies that shows

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Speaker 2: that Democrats want the party to abandon this centrist approach.

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Speaker 2: No more Liz Cheney being trot out. Yeah, they're going left.

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Speaker 1: So this is Harvard Center for American Political Studies. We

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Speaker 1: have to caveat this because this makes you too happy.

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Speaker 1: So I'm worried it's not totally legit. Anytime anything confirms

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Speaker 1: our priors, we have to be a little suspicious.

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Speaker 2: Yes, But also anytime you see crowds that size all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, you start to wonder, right.

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Speaker 1: And the crowds that sis you're talking about are the

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Speaker 1: Bernie aoc rallies. A survey taken by Harvard Center for

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Speaker 1: American Political Studies and Harris between April ninth and tenth

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Speaker 1: found that seventy two percent of Democratic voters support politicians

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Speaker 1: like Sanders and AOC who are calling on Democrats to

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Speaker 1: adapt a more aggressive stance towards Trump and his administration,

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Speaker 1: fight harder rather than leaders who are willing to compromise

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Speaker 1: with President Trump. So that's I think pretty important. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't say I think, Look, Jesse's very lefty, and I

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Speaker 1: am leftyer than I was for a long time. But

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Speaker 1: I do think this is really important. It is about

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Speaker 1: taking a stand and pushing back. I would also add

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Speaker 1: that this is AOC and Chris Murphy and all the

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Speaker 1: politicians who have been standing up have raised millions of dollars.

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Speaker 1: They've had like the best quarter ever. So clearly voters

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Speaker 1: like this, and they want this, and they want pushback

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Speaker 1: and they want standing up, and they don't want you

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Speaker 1: to bring Charlie Kirk on your podcast. That's for you,

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Speaker 1: Governor Musing. And Applebaum is the author of Autocracy, Inc.

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Speaker 1: The Dictators who want to run the world. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: and Applebaum, thanks for having me. I'm so glad to

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Speaker 1: have you because you predicted everything that was going to happen.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to telling you love everything. You wrote. This

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Speaker 1: really brilliant book about cryptocracy and what that looks like

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Speaker 1: in authoritarianism, and you just had a really smart op

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Speaker 1: at about it. And so we've spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time thinking about what this presidency would look like. In

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Speaker 1: some ways, it's worse. In some ways, it's not as bad.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are certain parts of it which I

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Speaker 1: think are worse, but also there seems to be more

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Speaker 1: weiggle room, if.

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Speaker 3: That makes sense, in the area of kleptocracy and corruption

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Speaker 3: and conflicts of interest. This is about as bad as

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Speaker 3: it could be. Yes, So I did write a book.

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Speaker 3: It's called Autocracy, Inc. And it was about this network

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Speaker 3: of dictators who don't share any ideology, but they have

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Speaker 3: common interests, and they often have common financial interests, and

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Speaker 3: they act out of their financial and political interests and

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Speaker 3: not in the interests of their own countries when they

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Speaker 3: make decisions. When the book was published, which was last summer,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people said, and will Trump be like that?

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Speaker 3: And I said, let's wait and see. But I think

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Speaker 3: that's a really precise description of what we're seeing. We're

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Speaker 3: seeing an administration which is acting not in the interests

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Speaker 3: of all Americans, but in the interest of very small

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Speaker 3: groups and in some cases in the president's personal financial interest.

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Speaker 1: I just want you to tell us who those dictators are.

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Speaker 1: That's Orbon and Bud and right, Yeah, the book.

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Speaker 3: The book was actually about Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela.

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Speaker 3: Leaders of countries who where there are no checks and balances,

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Speaker 3: where there's no rule of law, where the law is

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Speaker 3: whatever the person in charge or the party in charge

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Speaker 3: says it is right, and that's that was a that's

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Speaker 3: the big difference, the important difference between those countries and

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Speaker 3: liberal democracies. And I was also particularly interested in countries

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Speaker 3: that were fighting against narratives of democracy and we're trying

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Speaker 3: to create an authoritarian narrative instead. And actually you can

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Speaker 3: see ways in which this administration is also collaborating in

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Speaker 3: that project, so taking apart American soft power and institutions

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Speaker 3: and that promoted democracy and so on. But I think

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Speaker 3: the I think the shift in the direction of personalized

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Speaker 3: rule without rule of law, seeking to undermine or go

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Speaker 3: around the constitution, seeking to attacking the legal community, actually

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Speaker 3: attacking law firms, directly, seeking to undermine courts, ignoring or

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Speaker 3: mocking court decisions.

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Speaker 4: That is stuff that.

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Speaker 3: We know from the autocratic world. That's almost the definition

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Speaker 3: of autocracy. You know, these are countries where people rule

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Speaker 3: without any constraints. And it looks to me like this

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Speaker 3: administration also wants to rule without any constraints.

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Speaker 1: Right, and things like for example, this is a bit neasy,

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Speaker 1: but they're kicking out the wire services of the White

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Speaker 1: House press pool.

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Speaker 3: Seaking the wire services out of the White House press pool,

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Speaker 3: suing or using regulatory bodies to undermine the broadcast networks,

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Speaker 3: issuing executive orders against law firms seeking to literally take

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Speaker 3: over universities. I mean, the proposal for what they wanted

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Speaker 3: to do to Harvard was actually there's no way Harvard

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Speaker 3: could ever have accepted it. It was about giving the

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Speaker 3: administration control over a faculty, hiring, courses, students, eventually acceptances,

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Speaker 3: all kinds of things that no institution could tolerate. So

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Speaker 3: all those things are part of a project. And the

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Speaker 3: project is eliminate any source of information or knowledge or

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Speaker 3: expertise that can challenge the ruler, and eliminate any source

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Speaker 3: of possible descent, any institutions or organizations that could transmit

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Speaker 3: or communicate descent. These are tactics that we know from

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Speaker 3: the autocratic world. This is how many autocrats came to power,

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Speaker 3: or it's what they do once they have power. Here,

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Speaker 3: I have to say, I think maybe Americans don't realize

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Speaker 3: the shift has happened here much faster than I have

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Speaker 3: seen happen anywhere else. Usually it takes a long time.

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Speaker 3: Like there's an expression boiling the frog. You know, you

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Speaker 3: do a little, one little thing, and then another little thing,

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Speaker 3: and then before the frog knows that the frog is boiled.

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Speaker 3: This is much more aggressive, and of course it might

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Speaker 3: also therefore create a much more powerful counter reaction. The

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Speaker 3: aim and the goals are clear. It's attack institutions, it's

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Speaker 3: undermined the rule of law, eliminate sources of disagreement, and

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Speaker 3: do so also as a way of fighting culture wars.

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Speaker 3: So when the administration attacks Harvard or Columbia, the purpose

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Speaker 3: isn't just legal. It's also part of a narrative game.

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Speaker 3: We're pushing back against institutions that you don't like, or

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Speaker 3: that they think there are supporters don't like. There's an

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Speaker 3: argument being made as well as these legal changes happening.

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Speaker 1: It's important to sort of mention that Columbia did the

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Speaker 1: wrong thing, and the billionaires and the law firms that

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Speaker 1: went along with that. You don't ever win by acquiescing.

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Speaker 1: Will you talk about that? I mean, except with Putin,

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Speaker 1: But you don't win Trump doing.

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Speaker 4: That with Putin.

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Speaker 1: Do so.

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Speaker 3: Note what happened to Columbia is something that everyone should

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Speaker 3: pay attention to. Because Columbia tried to concede. Columbia tried

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Speaker 3: to go along with what the Straation wanted. It tried

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Speaker 3: to it abolished some departments or it announced some kind

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Speaker 3: of investigations and so on, and they thought that in

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Speaker 3: exchange for doing that, that the administration would give them

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Speaker 3: back their four hundred million dollars of federal scientific research funding,

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Speaker 3: which by the way, has nothing to do with, you know,

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Speaker 3: any of the political issues that Columbia was supposedly dealing with.

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Speaker 3: And then they didn't give it back. Instead they asked

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Speaker 3: for more and they still haven't given them the four

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Speaker 3: hundred million dollars. And the lesson is, you can you

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Speaker 3: can do what they want. You can concede to what

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Speaker 3: they want. They're going to demand more, you know, they

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Speaker 3: will not They're not going to leave you alone. And

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Speaker 3: I would say the same thing that these law firms

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Speaker 3: who have made concessions to Trump and you know are

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Speaker 3: trying to get along with them, and that that's going

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Speaker 3: to end badly too. Offering him some kind of deal

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Speaker 3: or paying money to his family is as you know,

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Speaker 3: as Amazon did when it when it invested forty million

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Speaker 3: dollars in a documentary about Millennia. All of that will

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Speaker 3: not build respect and safety. It will just make them

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Speaker 3: ask for more. They'll just want more money, They'll want

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Speaker 3: more payoffs, they'll want more concessions.

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Speaker 1: And I think what I think is so interesting here

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Speaker 1: is that if you are a university, you can win

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Speaker 1: if you just take them to court, because none of

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Speaker 1: this is legal.

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Speaker 3: It is not legal to withhold federal funding you in

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Speaker 3: exchange for unconstitutional requests to curve free speech. Note, as

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Speaker 3: long as we still have some independent judges in this country,

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Speaker 3: you know, Harvard will win that case.

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Speaker 1: With the exception of this sort of very few corrupt judges,

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Speaker 1: the very few Eileen Cannons. Trump world has not had

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Speaker 1: the time to put in cronies in the legal system,

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Speaker 1: so they are rolling the dice and getting people like

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Speaker 1: Judge Boseburg, who was appointed by both Obama and Bush

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Speaker 1: and who does not believe he's in Hungary. So I

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Speaker 1: think that is an important sort of backstop there is

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Speaker 1: that you can be brave and know the courts will

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Speaker 1: have your back.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's also the case that conservative judges for the

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Speaker 3: last several decades have all been originalists. They're people who

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Speaker 3: almost made a fetish of the Constitution. You know, I

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Speaker 3: think you know a lot of legal cases have been argued.

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Speaker 3: You know, what were the founders thinking in the eighteenth

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Speaker 3: century when they wrote this or that you know this

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Speaker 3: or that piece of it.

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Speaker 4: You know, even the conservative judges.

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Speaker 3: Are people who have, at least in their scholarship and

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Speaker 3: in their work, have not been partisans in the crudest sense,

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Speaker 3: but have been sticklers for an absolute orthdox interpretation of

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Speaker 3: the rule of law. So there is some hope that

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Speaker 3: conservative judges, when they see clear violations of the Constitution,

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Speaker 3: will reject it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean this nine zero response from the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court. I don't want to get all rosy eyed,

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Speaker 1: because we are certainly in a lot of trouble here,

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Speaker 1: but this nine zero response from the Supreme Court on

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Speaker 1: that you can't get rid of due process, I think

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Speaker 1: is meaningful.

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Speaker 3: I think it's meaningful too. It's also the very interesting

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Speaker 3: if you saw the exchange in the Oval office when

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Speaker 3: the bouqueta from El Salvador was there with President Trump,

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Speaker 3: there was a little weird commentary about the nine O decision.

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Speaker 3: And I think it was Stephen Miller, if I'm recollecting correctly,

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Speaker 3: who said, oh, the nine decision was in our favor.

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Speaker 3: In other words, they already feel the need to undermine

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Speaker 3: the decision and to lie about it and to tell

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Speaker 3: a completely different story about it. And you can see

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Speaker 3: Vance doing this as well in some of the propaganda

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Speaker 3: that he's been putting out. So they're trying to create

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Speaker 3: an alternate story. And it's really important that the courts,

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Speaker 3: the media, and of course Republican politicians as well as

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Speaker 3: democratic politicians hold them to reality. You know, they need

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Speaker 3: to listen to what the court says, and they need

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Speaker 3: to abide by what the court says.

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Speaker 1: The reason that it's been able to go so fast

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Speaker 1: is because I think a lot of people in this

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Speaker 1: country have not had to ever be brave, and it's

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Speaker 1: a muscle that's sort of out of fashion right now.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that two? Or why do you think

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Speaker 1: that people have came in so many cases?

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Speaker 3: Maybe partly that it's maybe that there's no cultural memory

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Speaker 3: of anything like this happening before, whereas there is in

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Speaker 3: other countries, for example, in Brazil and South Korea, who

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Speaker 3: both done a better job of pushing back against dictatorial

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Speaker 3: presidents or presidents who are usurping too much power. You know,

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Speaker 3: I also think there was a complacency here. You heard

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Speaker 3: it during the election campaign. There was a complacency about

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Speaker 3: what could happen. You know, there's an idea of American exceptionalism.

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Speaker 3: You know that we are a special country and we've

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Speaker 3: had democracy for such a long time that none of

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Speaker 3: this could happen to us, And I think people were

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Speaker 3: just not mentally prepared for, you know, what was actually

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Speaker 3: a very very well planned, you know, long thought about

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Speaker 3: attack on specific institutions. I mean, there were one or two,

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Speaker 3: there have to be said, there were one or two

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Speaker 3: pieces of this that were unique. I don't know of

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Speaker 3: a previous case when an equivalent of DOGE went into

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Speaker 3: a government and you know, a set of engineers went

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Speaker 3: into a you know, a finance ministry or a treasury

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Speaker 3: department and just shut off programs illegally and in such

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Speaker 3: a way that nobody knew how to turn them back

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Speaker 3: on again, which is a continuing problem. And all kinds

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Speaker 3: of spheres of you know, in all kinds of ways.

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Speaker 3: And so they did do some things that were new

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Speaker 3: in the world of you know, declining democracy. Yeah, but

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Speaker 3: you know, but a lot of it was predictable and

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Speaker 3: could have been predicted. I mean, the attacks on universities

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Speaker 3: were predictable, and actually presidents of universities, some of whom

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Speaker 3: I've spoken to, did know it was coming and have

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Speaker 3: been thinking about it for a long time. And certainly

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Speaker 3: the attacks on the media and the attempts to circumvent

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Speaker 3: the rule of law, and certainly once let me just

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Speaker 3: return again to the cryptocracy. These are These are people

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Speaker 3: who think that it's okay for the president to spend

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Speaker 3: a weekend, then a weekend when the stock market is crashing,

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Speaker 3: at his personal golf course and his Perersonal hotel where

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Speaker 3: a golf tournament is being played that is sponsored by

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Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia, and in attendance is the head of the

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Speaker 3: Saudi Sovereign Wealth Company and the Sovereign Wealth Fund and

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Speaker 3: aram Code are also sponsors. The Saudi Oil Company and

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Speaker 3: a series of other important Saudi business people are there,

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Speaker 3: and they are paying money to the president's golf course

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Speaker 3: and to the president's club, and nobody blinks an eye.

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Speaker 3: That's a conflict of interest. You know that Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 3: is a country that has a complex and relationship with

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Speaker 3: the United States. It cares very much what our foreign

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Speaker 3: policy is. And they are seeking to buy the president

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Speaker 3: in a way that's not even secret. It's not like

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Speaker 3: they're bribing him. The names of the sponsors of the

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Speaker 3: tournament are on billboards at Dorrall Golf Course and on websites.

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Speaker 3: The practice of this administration is now to openly flaunt

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Speaker 3: and enjoy conflicts of interests. I mean, Musk is another one.

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Speaker 3: Doje has attacked and fired people at regulatory agencies that

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Speaker 3: Musk's companies, and Musk now has to say in the

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Speaker 3: running of other agencies who subsidize his companies. In other words,

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Speaker 3: he is the beneficiary of the policies that he is

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Speaker 3: carrying out, the personal financial beneficiary. And that although you know,

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Speaker 3: there have been rich people involved in US politics for

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Speaker 3: a long time, and there have been lots of rich

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Speaker 3: people in the cabinet in the past, I am I

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Speaker 3: am unaware of anything this blatant. You know, where people

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Speaker 3: with an actual interest in a government decision get to

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Speaker 3: make that decision all by themselves.

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Speaker 1: What is interesting about it, too, is that one of

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Speaker 1: the things that you talked about on that article was

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Speaker 1: that TikTok was one of the sponsors of that golf tournament.

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Speaker 1: TikTok is so conflicted, but also the person who will

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Speaker 1: decide TikTok's fate is Donald Trump, right yep.

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Speaker 3: And TikTok is directly paying him. I mean they are

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Speaker 3: a sponsor of the tournament at his club. The club

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Speaker 3: is he makes money off of it. The actions of

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Speaker 3: TikTok or openly seeking to bribe are persuade the president

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Speaker 3: that they would like to stay in business. That a

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Speaker 3: website that collects vast amounts of data about Americans and

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Speaker 3: may well be sharing it with the Chinese Communist Party,

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Speaker 3: that website is seeking to win a regulatory decision through

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Speaker 3: influencing the president's personal financial decisions. Again, I can't state

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Speaker 3: enough how far out of line this is with certainly

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Speaker 3: the presidencies of the last century. Maybe if you go

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Speaker 3: back to the nineteenth century and the Gilded Age, you'll

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Speaker 3: find some similar level of conflict that I am not

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Speaker 3: aware of any president who's been personally courted by companies

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Speaker 3: and by foreign leaders who are also making financial contributions

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Speaker 3: to his businesses.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is absolutely just one of the kind of

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Speaker 1: most breson bits of self dealing that we've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: Tell Us, if we want to stop the cryptocracy and

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Speaker 1: the authoritarianism, what would you say are the mean things

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Speaker 1: this sort of call to action?

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Speaker 3: Here two things in particular, Number one, the next elections

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Speaker 3: by which I mean the midterms are unbelievably important. It

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Speaker 3: is really important that the Democrats win both the House

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Speaker 3: and the Senate, and it's also really important that they

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Speaker 3: get they create a broad coalition to help them do it,

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Speaker 3: hopefully including some Republicans or people are Trump voters, and

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Speaker 3: it's very important that those elections be free and fair.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: Again, in the list of things that Americans don't imagine,

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Speaker 3: they probably don't imagine that it's possible to corrupt an

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Speaker 3: American election.

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Speaker 1: But it is.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there are multiple, many scenarios you can imagine,

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Speaker 3: and it's good that everybody prepares to.

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Speaker 4: Think about them.

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Speaker 3: I mean, without being hysterical or creating anxiety. Just think

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Speaker 3: about whether there would be a you know, maybe they

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Speaker 3: are going to be protests, maybe there would be a crackdown,

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Speaker 3: maybe there would be a state of emergency, or maybe

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Speaker 3: there would be changes to electoral laws that would affect

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Speaker 3: who could vote. Just be prepared for that because it's

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Speaker 3: extremely important that, you know, in a democracy, power is

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Speaker 3: ultimately controlled in the by politicians in the political realm,

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Speaker 3: and we need some power. We need Congress to come

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Speaker 3: back to playing its role of checking the president. You know, Congress,

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Speaker 3: you know, Congress. Just to give one example, Congress could

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Speaker 3: end this the tariff policy immediately if they wanted to.

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Speaker 3: The tariff side. The tarts are also illegal. They're being

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Speaker 3: carried out in violation of treaties the United States has

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Speaker 3: signed on the basis of a kind of emergency law.

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Speaker 3: That's bullshit, and Congress could block that and take back

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Speaker 3: tariff power. Now, in our system, Congress has the power

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Speaker 3: of taxation and it controls the budget. They could take

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Speaker 3: that back. They could end the role of DOGE, which

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Speaker 3: is also acting illegally and ending programs and you know,

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Speaker 3: and departments that have been agreed to by Congress, and

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Speaker 3: you know, all those things could be brought to an end.

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Speaker 3: It's really really important that these elections go well. I

436
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 3: would also say, in the less political sphere, it's really

437
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 3: important to create broad coalitions. You know, it's so obvious

438
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 3: to me that all of the law firms in this

439
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 3: country need to be on the same side. I mean,

440
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 3: it cannot be the case that Trump can pick them

441
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,239
Speaker 3: off one by one or do a special deal with

442
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 3: Paul Weiss and then you know, and then attack wilmer Hale. Ultimately,

443
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 3: it's not going to work for anybody. It has to

444
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 3: be okay for law firms to defend whoever they want

445
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 3: and to have whatever clients they want. That's our tradition

446
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 3: going back two centuries, and lawyers cannot allow that to

447
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 3: be undermined. But the same is true of universities. You know,

448
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 3: what would be really great would be not just for

449
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 3: Harvard and MIT and a few very wealthy universities on

450
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,479
Speaker 3: the East Coast to be standing up, but for a

451
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 3: coalition of universities who see the threat to one as

452
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 3: a threat to all, to begin to speak in one voice.

453
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 3: There's been a little bit of that. There have been

454
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 3: some group lawsuits, particularly against the cuts in biomedical research

455
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 3: and healthcare spending, which have affected some universities disproportionately, but

456
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 3: not everybody has joined them. I mean, there's one interesting

457
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 3: exam University of Alabama. University of Alabama Medical School. At

458
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 3: least until recently, it was the largest employer in the

459
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 3: city Bingham. It's a really important institution. They will also

460
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 3: lose money from cuts to an age spending. So how

461
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 3: about hearing from them? How about hearing from other Red

462
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 3: state universities, from wider range of universities, All across the system.

463
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 3: You know, we need some solidarity from universities, from law firms,

464
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 3: from media. You know, the more they speak, you know, together,

465
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 3: the harder it's going to be to undermine this. So

466
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 3: I would start with those two things. You know, elections

467
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 3: are important and our system. Elections are the main thing.

468
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 3: Don't forget about them or dismiss them or think we

469
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 3: can solve this with lawsuits. You know, elections really matter.

470
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 3: And then I think solidarity matters and coalitions matter.

471
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you, Anna.

472
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 4: Thank you.

473
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: Darryl Silver is an author and producer of over a

474
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: dozen television shows, including The Apprentice. Welcome to Fast Politics.

475
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 4: Daryl, thanks for having me.

476
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: So you produced The Apprentice. You were one of the

477
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: people who started tell us about your relationship with the Apprentices.

478
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 4: So I came on at Concept. I was brought on

479
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 4: literally the day I came on. I had to sign

480
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 4: my contract before I could even told what the show was. Wow, Yeah,

481
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 4: what did you think it was?

482
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 5: Well?

483
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 4: I didn't know, but I was a big fan of

484
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 4: Survivor at the time. But Conrad Riggs, who is Mark

485
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 4: Burnett's number two, hired me and I signed my contract

486
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 4: and they said Okay, what's the show, and they said,

487
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 4: it's Survivor in the City and the winner gets to

488
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 4: be Donald Trump's prince for a year. I was then

489
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 4: ushered into a room of like twenty some odd people

490
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 4: who literally like signed the contract learned that walked into

491
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 4: a room, was introduced as one of the creative guys

492
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 4: on the show who will be developing the show for

493
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 4: Mark Burnett, and the line was Survivor in the City

494
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 4: winner gives me Donald Trump's apprentice for a year, and

495
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,719
Speaker 4: you need to figure out the format of the show

496
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 4: before the network asks us. So I literally came on

497
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 4: at Concept and when I went into that first meeting,

498
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 4: I had just learned thirty seconds ago what the show

499
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 4: was about. So I took out my little read book

500
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 4: that I brought with me for notes and I still

501
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,959
Speaker 4: have it today. I created like probably half a dozen

502
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 4: tasks that wound up getting in the show, in formats

503
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 4: that wanted getting the show, including lemonade stand. While we

504
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 4: were going around introducing ourselves in the room, I'm feverishly

505
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 4: writing because I'm about to be asked, like what my

506
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 4: ideas are that I just learned thirty seconds ago. So

507
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 4: that's literally where I came on and then I did

508
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 4: that for the first three seasons, and I was a

509
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 4: producer on the first three seasons of the show.

510
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: Did anyone ever become an apprentice to him?

511
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 4: For a year afterward, I was in La doing this,

512
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 4: and that was all kind of happening in New York.

513
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 4: Although in season two and three I was on the set.

514
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 4: In season one, there was a limited amount of us

515
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 4: that actually went to the set, and so like, after

516
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 4: all this happened, like we really weren't involved with that,

517
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 4: because the whole show took on a mind of its

518
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 4: own so quickly, it became such a big hit that

519
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 4: it was like we were rushed back into season two

520
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 4: and three, Like we weren't paying attention to what happened

521
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 4: to season one. So I guess they did work for him.

522
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 4: I mean, I think Bill worked in Chicago or something,

523
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 4: But like, we weren't involved in that. Really, we weren't

524
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 4: tracking that at all.

525
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: In some ways, the Apprentice was as much a part

526
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: of the origin story of Donald Trump as Donald Trump was,

527
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: right well.

528
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 4: It validated him. It took a guy who had, you know,

529
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 4: ruined a lot of businesses. You know, he had bankrupt

530
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 4: a lot of businesses and struggled in a lot of

531
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 4: his real estate career. And then we validated him. We

532
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 4: convinced America and the world that he was a business genius,

533
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 4: you know. And that's what it did. It gave him

534
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 4: some validation.

535
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 2: True or not.

536
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: You guys wrote it sort of without him. Was he

537
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: involved in the writing of it.

538
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 4: It was not involved at all. What happened is is

539
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 4: like we developed the show. We would create the tasks,

540
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,959
Speaker 4: the format and all that, and then he was brought in.

541
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 4: If you actually look at the show, he's not in

542
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 4: the show that much. So at the beginning he'll say

543
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 4: like here I am at Macy's, or here I am

544
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 4: at this place, or here I'm at home depot, and

545
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 4: then he disappears for the most of the show. And

546
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 4: on an occasion he would show up in the middle

547
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 4: of the show, but not every episode. And then he

548
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 4: would obviously come to the boardroom at the end. And

549
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 4: what would happen at the end of the show is

550
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 4: like we'd be sitting in the control room and there'd

551
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 4: be a lot of producers stand around him and we

552
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 4: would download him on what happened during the week. I

553
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 4: forget the other two people's name, but the people who

554
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 4: work for him, they would pop in here and there

555
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 4: and they would give him a download too, and then

556
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 4: based on that information, he would go into the boardroom

557
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 4: and he would you know, make his decisions.

558
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: So did you get the sense when you were working

559
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: on it that he was good at business or now?

560
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 4: I did not. I wasn't involved in his day to

561
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 4: day businesses. I didn't see it. But what surprised me,

562
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 4: which is like everybody talks about Trump's lies, is that

563
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 4: being in the middle of this, we would hear his

564
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 4: lies that didn't need to be lies. I remember once

565
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 4: he would he said like, we're the number one show

566
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 4: in the history of the network, and we were laughing.

567
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 4: We're like, we're an absolute hit show. We're doing fantastic,

568
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 4: like on all metrics or a smash hit. And he

569
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 4: would still have to get on camera and lie about it.

570
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 4: And we were constantly like laughing at it, like why

571
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 4: is he telling all these lies?

572
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: Did you feel like you couldn't trust him?

573
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 4: I mean, it wasn't matter trust and you remember he

574
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 4: wasn't around that much, so it wasn't like, you know,

575
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 4: Donald Trump wasn't giving us any direction. You know, Jay

576
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 4: Beanstalk was our showrunner and he was really in charge

577
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 4: of it, and Mark wasn't really there for the most part,

578
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 4: and so it was like, you know, we were just

579
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 4: We're just a TV show, you know, that's it. We're

580
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 4: just we're just making TV. And a lot of a

581
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 4: lot of people always ask me, They're like, you know,

582
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 4: why didn't you do something? Why why don't you say something?

583
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 4: And I'm always like, the guy was a real estate

584
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 4: guy who thought he would become a president.

585
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 5: You know, did you feel like he was smart? No,

586
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 5: that's interesting. I mean, as simple as that, what led

587
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 5: you to think that. Let me break it out. There's

588
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 5: two different kinds of smarts. There's street smarts and then

589
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 5: there's smart. There's no question he's street smart. He proves

590
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 5: it every day.

591
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

592
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 4: His superpower is that he can convince whoever he's standing

593
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 4: in front of that he's going to do for them

594
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 4: what they want. Whatever your dream come true is. He

595
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 4: will promise you within an hour, he'll promise that there's

596
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 4: going to be clean coal to coal miners and then environmentalists,

597
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 4: that he's going to be the best environmental president ever,

598
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 4: and he'll do that. He'll do that without even thinking,

599
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 4: without even skipping a bee. Yeah, you know, And that's

600
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 4: his superpower, is that he's able to do that without

601
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 4: a conscience in my opinion.

602
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, in your set and of like the

603
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: experience of making television like that, do you think it

604
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: helped him create the sort of skill set that he has.

605
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 4: Now, No, I don't think he has a skill set.

606
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: But you know, the skill set of like getting people

607
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: to believe stuff.

608
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 4: No, he was doing that already if you spent any

609
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 4: time with him at all, Like he made the grips

610
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 4: feel good about themselves as well as the guy on

611
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 4: the street. He wanted to be liked. He had this

612
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 4: gift of gab. Again, I think it's his superpower, is

613
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 4: that he is. You know, people always asked me, would

614
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 4: you think of Donald Trump? He was a really nice

615
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 4: guy when we were there. I just, you know, I

616
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 4: just don't think he should be a dog catcher. But

617
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 4: he was charming and he was friendly, and he was

618
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 4: always he was nice to us. I didn't I didn't

619
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 4: have a bad thing to say about him. From a

620
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 4: personal standpoint.

621
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: I think it's really important that when we talk about him,

622
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: we separate like how he is, how he is there's

623
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: a reason that a plurality of Americans voted for him twice.

624
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: And you know, he is a wildly successful politician. That's

625
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: part of how we got here again. And he's able

626
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: to do something that other Republicans are not. So I

627
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: think that learning this stuff is actually really relevant and important.

628
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 4: You know, you compare it to like the people who

629
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 4: convince suicide bombers to kill themselves with seventy two virgins.

630
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 4: If you pound enough time into people's head and they

631
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 4: believe you, they'll do anything for you, including voting against

632
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 4: their best interests. I mean, look at farmers today, Look

633
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 4: at all the people losing jobs. Look at the immigrants

634
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 4: who voted for him. I mean, like they're all getting

635
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 4: shellacked right now. He convinced them against all their better judgment.

636
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 4: You look at cities right now that are losing education

637
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 4: funding and all the red states that they can't afford

638
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 4: to lose any of it, and they're losing all and

639
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 4: it's all because he convinced them that this was best

640
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 4: for him. That's his genius. I mean, that's his genius.

641
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: And you saw that even in the boardroom.

642
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 4: I'll tell you what I saw in the boardroom. That

643
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 4: was interesting, Like we would give him the download of

644
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 4: what happened during the episode, it'd be obvious, like Molly

645
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 4: did this and so and so did this, and like

646
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 4: it would be obvious he obviously made all the decisions

647
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 4: what he wanted to do and who he wanted to fire.

648
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 4: But every once in a while, somebody who was like

649
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 4: a tangential person in the task or whatever said something

650
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 4: he didn't like and he would just go, you're fired,

651
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 4: and you'd be like, and you'd hear the control room

652
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 4: everybody would freeze, because there was it was always like

653
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 4: a like an order with which things were supposed to

654
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 4: happen to lead up to the firing. And sometimes he

655
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,479
Speaker 4: would go out of order and he would just fire

656
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 4: somebody way before we got all the bites that we needed,

657
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 4: and you would be like, what just happened? Why did

658
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 4: he fire that person? Like that person had nothing to

659
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 4: do with the downfall of the team or something like that,

660
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 4: And so you know, you look at somebody who's just

661
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 4: it's just not logical, and which is what we're seeing today,

662
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 4: is like he's doing all these things that aren't logical

663
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 4: and you're just like, why is.

664
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 6: He doing them?

665
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 4: And he's got his people who go on camera and

666
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 4: like he knows what he's doing. He's playing you know,

667
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 4: you know, four level chests and you're just like, he's not.

668
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 1: But that's really an interesting thing you're talking about there,

669
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: because that is what we see today, right, We see

670
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: that kind of like unpredictable for the tariffs. I mean,

671
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: like he sort of gets is it. You think it's

672
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: emotional on some level or just.

673
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 4: Angry if you want to go down to like the

674
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 4: most basic level. My opinion is that everything he does

675
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,919
Speaker 4: is either to benefit Donald Trump or to protect Donald Trump,

676
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 4: and he really doesn't care about the rest. Had not

677
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 4: he been trying to stay out of jail, who knows

678
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 4: if he would have even run. If not that he

679
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 4: was getting actually shellacked in his businesses and losing money,

680
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 4: he wouldn't be pulling all these grifts that he's doing

681
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 4: now to raise money. Whether it's whether it's shoes, or

682
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 4: whether it's the coin, or whether it's all of these things.

683
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 4: It's really all Donald Trump's centric. It's not about the country,

684
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 4: it's not about really anything. It's about how he gets

685
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 4: what he needs.

686
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: In my opinion, yeah, oh yeah, let's talk about this

687
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: bill Maher thing because Bill Maher went tomorrow Laga the

688
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: Winter White House to see Donald Trump. Can you explain

689
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: to us your take on that what you think happened there.

690
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 4: Look, I've been watching Bill Maher for years, and I

691
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 4: think Bill Maher is a smart guy. It wasn't as

692
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 4: much that Bill Maher went there and met with him.

693
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 4: It's that when he came out, he was like, he's

694
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 4: not you know, basically his line is and I'd have

695
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 4: to look it up and the thing I wrote, but

696
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 4: he's like, he wasn't the crazy person that he saw

697
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 4: on TV every day. He was like a nice, normal person,

698
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 4: you know. He was charming, he was all these things.

699
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 4: And it's like, yeah, most dictators and tyrants historically when

700
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 4: you sit with them, were nice guys, but then they

701
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 4: went and did all this crazy shit that destroyed the world.

702
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 4: And basically Trump's inherent thing is he wants people to

703
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 4: love him. He really wants to be loved. He wants

704
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 4: people like him, he wants people love him. He wants

705
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 4: to feel like the big macher, you know, and and

706
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,439
Speaker 4: if you give him that, he loves it. So Bill

707
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 4: Mark came to meet him at the White House and

708
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 4: like sat with him, and it was a nice meeting

709
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 4: and with Kid Rock and I believe the guy from

710
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 4: usc was.

711
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: There a beautiful piece of chocolate cake.

712
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 4: Maybe yeah, exactly, And so like he's gonna be charming,

713
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 4: just like he was charming with us, and he's charming

714
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 4: with everybody. And then you leave and you go like,

715
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 4: well he was a charming guy. This charming guy like

716
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 4: just sent all these people to a death camp in Salvador.

717
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, he was nice, but what does that mean?

718
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 4: And in since Bill Maher had that as like his

719
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 4: first line out to the public, it was like, are

720
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 4: you joking? Like are you just wiping all the things

721
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 4: that he's doing and you see he's doing just because

722
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 4: he was nice to you at a dinner. It's like

723
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 4: it's madness and it's what Trump does and it's how

724
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 4: he lulls people into this.

725
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: But it's interesting because it's like, and you probably relate

726
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: to this too, Like I meet people sometimes a lot

727
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: of times they're very nice to me. Does that mean

728
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: they're going to be nice to everyone? Maybe not? Right,

729
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: Like Bill obviously has a real place in Donald Trump's mind,

730
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: so of course, like why would he be mean to Bill? Right?

731
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 4: Why would Bill come out with the first line that

732
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 4: he say be complimentary towards Trump? That's the crazy thing.

733
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 4: It's like, tell us what you discussed, tell us how

734
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 4: he responds to all the things he's doing. Give us,

735
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 4: give us an insight into policy. That's what I want

736
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 4: to know, and not that he was nice to you

737
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 4: and you guys had a nice dinner. Like nobody gives

738
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 4: a shit that you guys had a nice dinner.

739
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: Well, it's also just like, there are things that you

740
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: could find out about Trump that would be quite useful

741
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: for all of us, right, that would make sense?

742
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,439
Speaker 4: That would You've seen Trump being interviewed by a lot

743
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 4: of people. He gives very little true information when he's

744
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 4: doing when he's doing an interview, I mean, the guy,

745
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 4: if you ask him a direct question that he doesn't

746
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 4: like it just pretends is if that question was never

747
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 4: asks and starts talking about some other thing.

748
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: By the way, that's a New York rich people thing,

749
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: because I've had other people do it to me before,

750
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: and I'll be like, am I going crazy because I

751
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: just asked you a question about something totally and they

752
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: just talk about something else. It's like brilliant gas lighting.

753
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 4: Well, you know what he's been doing. I mean, if

754
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 4: you look what he's been doing in the White House meetings,

755
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 4: Like he had all the press in there the other

756
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 4: day and they asked him directly about kill mar Abrego Garcia,

757
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 4: and like he was like, that's a rude question, and

758
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 4: then he went off on some tangent. It's like, that's

759
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 4: the question we all want to know. So he's smart

760
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 4: enough not to answer the questions that he doesn't want

761
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 4: to answer, which is frankly as opposed to the very

762
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 4: very very friendly media every question.

763
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: Right, right, No, that's a really good point. And I

764
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: think that, you know, that is instructive in a lot

765
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: of ways. So he's a creature of reality television. What

766
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: do you think it was in this show that made

767
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: him so appealing to the world.

768
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,879
Speaker 4: I think people look at Donald Trump and see him

769
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 4: as an everyman and think I could be that man,

770
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 4: Like I could that could be me, you know, and

771
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 4: then they like that he says things for a large

772
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 4: portion of our population. He's willing to say the things

773
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 4: that a lot of people aren't willing to say. And

774
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 4: he's like, oh my god, he'll say things that I

775
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 4: would like to say. He gives a certain portion of

776
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 4: our public the right to say things that normally you

777
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 4: wouldn't say out loud. And on the TV show, I mean,

778
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 4: he was likable, he was funny, he was friendly. You know,

779
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 4: he made big decisions. You saw him in you know,

780
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 4: this is how the rich live. You know, we love

781
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 4: to see behind the curtain of how rich people live.

782
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 4: And you saw it. And by the way, the show

783
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 4: was super entertaining. I mean, there's no doubt about it.

784
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 4: Like when we first developed the show and we'd be

785
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 4: sitting around talking about business tasks, we would say it

786
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 4: to ourselves, like, is anybody gonna want to watch this

787
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 4: at all? And they didn't watch it for the business tasks.

788
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 4: They watched it because Trump was so charismatic. And yeah,

789
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 4: there was great drama with the two teams and whatnot,

790
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 4: but like, you know, that's really what it was. So

791
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 4: when when the show became a massive hit, we sat

792
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 4: around and we were like, we're genius. Is like, we

793
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 4: never thought a million years it was going to be

794
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 4: this mashion it was. When we came back, were like,

795
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 4: we weren't just as surprised as everybody else that it

796
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 4: was like this big hit. But because of his personality.

797
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 4: That's what it was.

798
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: So you think ultimately that sort of ability to make

799
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: everyone like him was what did it?

800
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 4: Who's a politician who was a football.

801
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: Coach, Tommy Tuberville.

802
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 4: How is Tommy Tuberville like in government? You know what

803
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 4: I mean? But it's because people loved the guy. They

804
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 4: loved him for his coaching, they loved the things he

805
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 4: had to say, They love he was outspoken. And now

806
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 4: he's running a state. You know, he's one of the

807
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 4: heads of a state. I mean, it's no different when

808
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 4: you look at any celebrity who really, inherently you don't

809
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 4: think would be in government, has no experience in government,

810
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 4: doesn't understand clear, simple policies how they get to these positions.

811
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 4: The same thing with Trump. There's always a time in

812
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 4: our society where everybody wants an outsider. We don't want

813
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 4: an insider. We don't want somebody who actually knows how

814
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 4: to run the government. If we could just get this

815
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 4: genius businessman to run this business of America, like, everything

816
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 4: will be great, even though the two skill sets have

817
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 4: nothing to do with one another. And that's what he

818
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 4: convinced people, and that's what then people wanted. That twice

819
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 4: Thank you, Darren, thank you.

820
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: And now we have a clip from our YouTube channel

821
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: with Dave Serota from The Lever, who also is the

822
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 1: creator of the podcast The master Plan and the screenplay

823
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 1: author of the movie Don't Look Up. Welcome Too Fast Politics.

824
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 6: David, thank you, thanks for having me.

825
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: So you and I are like absolutely on the same

826
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: page today. We both wrote our columns. You wrote your

827
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 1: column in the Guardian. I wrote my common Vanity fair

828
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: about exactly the same thing, which is where I think

829
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: the smart money is in the Democratic Party right now.

830
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: So I want you to explain to our listeners why

831
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: you think that Trump's tariffs are a winner for deams.

832
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 6: I think they're a winner for a particular kind of

833
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 6: dem I think obviously the tariffs creating chaos for the

834
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 6: economy is bad for the incumbent party and probably structurally,

835
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 6: I guess, politically good for the opposition party. I mean,

836
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 6: I think it's bad for really every unless you're a billionaire, and.

837
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: Even then.

838
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 4: A lot of ye billionaire.

839
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, good point. So I think there's a way for

840
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 6: Democrats to be criticizing the kinds of tariffs, the kinds

841
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 6: of trade policies Trump is putting into effect. Uh, there's

842
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,720
Speaker 6: a very strong argument that they're so broad, they're so inconsistent,

843
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 6: they're so sort of hap has there's no indication to

844
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 6: suggest they're going to achieve anything that Trump says they

845
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 6: are right. If you're trying to reshore American jobs that

846
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 6: have been offshore, for example, you probably want to put

847
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 6: in tariffs that have a timetable for implementation to give

848
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 6: industries a chance to rebuild and make capital investments, rebuild

849
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 6: factories in the United States that really hasn't happened. If

850
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 6: you want to get companies to make giant capital investments

851
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 6: in the United States, you probably want to show that

852
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 6: the policies you're putting into place are permanent and stable,

853
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 6: rather than waking up every six hours and saying, oh,

854
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 6: we're going to do this exemption or that exemption. How

855
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 6: is any business supposed to invest in that. So the

856
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 6: point is that the Democrats have a really good argument

857
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 6: to make that these tariffs are going to harm the

858
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 6: working class and America in general. Now one caveat. I

859
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 6: think if the Democrats take that to its extreme and

860
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 6: say all industrial policy, all tariffs are bad, that the

861
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 6: NAFTA trade paradigm and the China free trade paradigm. All

862
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 6: of that is good, then I think they walk into

863
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 6: a trap that Trump wants them to walk into, and

864
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 6: I think there's evidence that parts of the party don't

865
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 6: really understand the trap that Trump is trying to lay

866
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 6: for them.

867
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: First, I want to just go back to what you

868
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Speaker 1: were saying, seventy percent of Americans believe the tariffs are

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Speaker 1: going to be bad for the economy on the short term.

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Speaker 1: You don't get seventy percent of Americans who agree on anything.

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Speaker 1: Those are incredible numbers, and I think that that should

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Speaker 1: be sort of the foundation of all of this. But

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Speaker 1: the thing that I think will likely do the best

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Speaker 1: for the opposition party, which Democrats need to be, is

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Speaker 1: the haphazardous and the way that none of this has

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Speaker 1: been thought out, which is what we write so like

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Speaker 1: for example, and I want to get into this, the

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Speaker 1: reshoring reshoring manufacturing is like one of the goals here, right,

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Speaker 1: restoring manufacturing. But you can't reshore manufacturing just by making

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Speaker 1: things more expensive. Chips and Science had a goal of

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Speaker 1: reshoring manufacturing. Really like reshoring these high paying manufacturing jobs,

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Speaker 1: which are chips. A chips assembly line is a much

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Speaker 1: better job than a Sneaker's assembly line, and that was

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Speaker 1: the thinking here, but because they could not articulate it,

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Speaker 1: it got lost. And so now here we have Trump

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Speaker 1: trying to do the same thing, but because there's no

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Speaker 1: there's never any sort of thinking behind anything, we're here instead.

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Speaker 6: That's a really good point. The Biden administration, it got

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Speaker 6: the policy actually right that Biden. That Biden used targeted

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Speaker 6: tariffs on specific industries as part of a coordinated industrial policy.

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Speaker 6: For instance, the Chips Act, as you mentioned, which which

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Speaker 6: invests actually uses money resources to invest the Inflation Reduction Act,

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Speaker 6: which uses tax credits and other investment tools along with

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Speaker 6: targeted tariffs. And we saw manufacturing jobs start to come

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Speaker 6: back in the United States and factory investments start to

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Speaker 6: be made by the way, many of which were made

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Speaker 6: in red states, in Republican states. The problem was, as

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Speaker 6: you allude to, the Biden administration never sold it. They

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Speaker 6: never made it part of their political pitch to the country.

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Speaker 6: Kamala Harris didn't, the Democratic Party didn't. And now you

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Speaker 6: have a situation where Trump is trying to take the

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Speaker 6: political themes of reshoring American jobs, brand it to himself,

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Speaker 6: but with a completely unacceptable, reckless and haphazard policy. And again,

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Speaker 6: I think the Democrats have a story to tell about

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Speaker 6: how the hap has ears of Trump's policy is imperiling

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Speaker 6: the country. But I think they could make a political

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Speaker 6: mistake by allowing Trump to brand them once again as

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Speaker 6: he did in twenty sixteen, to brand them as the

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Speaker 6: party of NAFTA style trade policy.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 6: I think this has been forgotten. There are large swaths

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Speaker 6: of this country that used to be democratic regions, democratic strongholds,

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Speaker 6: that were hollowed out by so called free trade deals NAFTA, China,

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Speaker 6: p and tr And I think that is a very

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Speaker 6: real issue, that is a very authentic concern for those

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Speaker 6: communities that went through that and that continue to go

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Speaker 6: through that. And I think if the Democrats sort of

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Speaker 6: scoff at that grievance, they play into what Trump wants

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Speaker 6: them to do. And here's the other polling number that

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Speaker 6: I think has been forgotten that while the public is

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Speaker 6: opposed to Trump's tariff policy, on the actual policy merits

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Speaker 6: for the first time in generations, At the same time,

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Speaker 6: the Republicans have evened the playing field on the question

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Speaker 6: of who cares about you? That question in polling, who

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Speaker 6: most cares about you. For the first time really in

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Speaker 6: modern polling history, the Republican Party has now pulled even

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Speaker 6: with Democrats. So my theory here is, and I would

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Speaker 6: speculate that what's going on here is that large, you know,

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Speaker 6: majorities of the country are like, hey, Trump is not

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Speaker 6: handling the is not managing the economy, right, he doesn't

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Speaker 6: know what he's doing with these tariffs. The tariffs are

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Speaker 6: going to be bad for me. On the policy, it's clear,

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Speaker 6: but hey, you know, he's also talking about this issue

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Speaker 6: trade and tariffs and reshoring jobs and what happened to America.

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Speaker 6: And so even if we don't think he's right on

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Speaker 6: the policy, he's at least talking about this issue that

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Speaker 6: very few politicians have wanted to talk about, which shows

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Speaker 6: where the perception is is that he's on our side.

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Speaker 6: And I think that is that's the dichotomy that we're in.

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Speaker 6: Obviously I don't think he's on our side, but my

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Speaker 6: point is is that that's the tension here.

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Speaker 1: To hear more of that segment, head over to our

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel No More Perfectly Jesse Cannon, Small.

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Speaker 2: Junk fast Man. You know, when we started to hear

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00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 2: Trump years ago talk about which hunts against him. We

946
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: kind of knew if he got back into power, exactly

947
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Speaker 2: what he be doing and what he's doing James here

948
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Speaker 2: is exactly what we suspected.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so he is going to do a fake investigation

950
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: of her. So he basically, according to a letter obtained

951
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Speaker 1: by the euro Post, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch

952
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: and is Donald Trump's favorite outlet because he still lives

953
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: in the nineties, she launched a civil fraud case again

954
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 1: Trump and his business empire in twenty twenty two. So

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Speaker 1: now this US Attorney General Pam Bondi is alleging that

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00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: James falsified records in twenty twenty three to secure home

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Speaker 1: loans on a property in Norfolk, Virginia that she said

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Speaker 1: was her principal residence while still serving in her role

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Speaker 1: in New York. This is while James is announcing a

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Speaker 1: new investigation into the President over accusations of insider trading.

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Speaker 1: The accusations arose in the wake of his u turn

962
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Speaker 1: on the Reciprocal Theraists last week, after the program's unraveling

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Speaker 1: inspired a panic on Wall Street. Writing to Bondy and

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Speaker 1: her deputy Todd Blanche, who you will remember as Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump's defense lawyer. Miss James was the sitting Attorney General

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Speaker 1: of New York and is required by a low to

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Speaker 1: have her primary residents in the state of New York,

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Speaker 1: even though her mortgage application lists her intent to have

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Speaker 1: the Norfolk, Virginia property as her primary home. Is like

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Speaker 1: going after someone for a crime that includes not filing

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Speaker 1: a form. Right, but this is what they do. That's

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Speaker 1: it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics

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00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

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00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.