1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: It's like Christmas morning. I really just don't know where 2 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: to start, so let me just dive in. So this guy, 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: a star, a star on the hit series Empire, tells 4 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: people he was the victim of a hate crime because 5 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: he is black and gay, that these perpetrators were just 6 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: waiting stalking him. They have been writing these letters. It 7 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: looks just like out of murder, she wrote, or wait 8 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: wait downgrade that to Nancy Drew, where you cut out 9 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 1: the letters out of a magazine or something and then 10 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: there's a little stick figure of someone being hung. Anyway, 11 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: I kept wondering who was stalking him at subway sandwich 12 00:00:54,640 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: at too am. Long story short, well, well, well, well, 13 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: if Jesse Smillett has not been indicted after pointing the 14 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: finger at everybody butt him in the last hours the 15 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: Empire starred Jesse Smilett indicted by a special prosecutor in 16 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: Chicago on six counts of lyne to cops. Let me 17 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: tell you something. This is not just about a pr 18 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: stunt to get attention to himself and get more money 19 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: as contract. This is about using Lady Justice crime stories 20 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace Smilette, a gay cast member of the 21 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: Fox hit show Empire told police two masked white men 22 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: shouting racist epithets and gay slurs, beat him up, knocked 23 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: him to the ground, and doused him with an unknown 24 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: chemical after he left a subway restaurant around two am 25 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: on Tuesday. He also said his attackers allegedly yelled Maga country, 26 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: a reference to President Trump's campaign slogan when does ohatsukipo? 27 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: Who got that popular vote? Flett is known for speaking 28 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: out against racism and bigotry, like in this twenty seventeen 29 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: music video. He is also a frequent critic of the president. 30 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: The actor was the target of a threatening letter last week, 31 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: which the FBI is now investigating. Chicago Mayor Ram Emmanuel. 32 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: What was done here? Alleged done here? Is this police 33 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: are working on. This has no place in the city 34 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: of Chicago now. Police sources tell us that Smolette says 35 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: he was on the phone with his manager during at 36 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: least part of that altercation, but so far neither man 37 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: has agreed to turn over his cell phone for examination. Wow, 38 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: you know what. This is not just about a pr 39 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: our stunt to get attention to himself and get more 40 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: money as contract. This is about using Lady justice, using 41 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: the police, using the system, working at like a dog, 42 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: like a mule, spending millions of dollars literally trying to 43 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: solve his high profile case, when the whole time he 44 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: was lying, you were just hearing our friend at CBS 45 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 1: News that was Dean Reynolds. I got an all star 46 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: panel with me right now, Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina trial 47 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: lawyer Bobby Chekom, a former special agent FBI, star of 48 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: Facebook watch series Curse of Acacore Psychologists, joining me from Manhattan. 49 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: Karen Stark at Karenstark dot Com. Karen Smith, renown forensics expert, 50 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: lecturer University Florida, host of Shattered Souls podcast. But right 51 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: now to our friend at the New York Post, right 52 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: in the middle of it, Gabrielle van Rouge. Gabrielle, Welcome, 53 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: What the hey? What the hey is right? This has 54 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: been a non stop roller coaster for pretty much twelve 55 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: months now, you know, and it all started with this 56 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: bizarre hate attack. So in the cops get to his apartment, 57 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: I believe the manager. I got into a fight with 58 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: somebody on air about this, and it was this beautiful anchor, 59 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: and I hated to be so mean to her. But 60 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: she kept saying that he called nine one one, but 61 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: didn't the manager called nine one one. Gabrielle, Yes, you 62 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: are exactly right. I've listened to the nine one one call. 63 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: It was not Jesse. In fact, Jesse did not supportedly 64 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: did not want to call nine one one because he 65 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: didn't want to make a big fuss about it. But 66 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: his manager, seeing the noose around his neck and smelling 67 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: the bleach on his clothes and seeing the scratches on 68 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: his face, he was like, we have to call the cops. 69 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,679 Speaker 1: So the manager is the one who called the police. 70 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: And in fact, on the nine one one call, you 71 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: can hear him saying that the subject who is wait, wait, wait, Gabrielle, 72 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: wait a minute, I hate crime. It sounds like he 73 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: got pushed around inside a nail salon. Wait a minute. 74 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: So he had something on his clothing, but it didn't 75 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: get on his skin because I guess that would have hurt. 76 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: Then he had a scratch, Then there was a noose 77 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: around his neck. Where's the black eye, where's the beating? 78 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: Where's the ligature mark around his neck? And what were 79 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: these two? Just the subway vigilantes? What were they hanging 80 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: around at two o'clock. It's Chicago. How cold is it 81 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: is Chicago at two am? Even in the summertime, it's freezing, Gabrielle, 82 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: My nephew is there in grad school studying something complicated 83 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: business and math, and it's freezing. What is he doing 84 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: going out at two am in the morning anyway for 85 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: a subway? Doesn't he have anything in his fridge? That 86 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: was my first thought. Go ahead, Gabrielle, No, you're totally fight. 87 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: And not only was it cold that night, it was 88 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: actually one of the coldest nights of the year in Chicago. 89 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: It was down to like way in the negatives. People 90 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: were freezing their food within minutes of bringing it outside. 91 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: It's not just it really seemed very implausible from the beginning, 92 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: and that's exactly what Jesse's neighbor thought about. You know, 93 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: first of all, Chicago is one of the most liberal 94 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: cities in the US, So for somebody in that part 95 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: of Chicago, in downtown Chicago, the riskiest part to be 96 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: out at that time in those temperatures, stalking him from 97 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: a subway restaurant just really started to beg a lot 98 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: of questions very early on at the get go, at 99 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: the very beginning the story of being stalked at two 100 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: am and the freezing sub zero cold outside the subway 101 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: didn't make sense. And I'm so happy, Bobby Chico, because 102 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: I've always wanted to say, well, well, well, and I've 103 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: never ever in my life gotten to say it till 104 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: right now. Okay, what is wrong with his story, Bobby Chicone. Well, 105 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: the first thing is, you know, the very very first 106 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: thing that came to the investigator's mind, I think is 107 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: that in these hate crimes they're so emotionally traumatizing when 108 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: they actually happened, that the person would not keep a 109 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: noose around their neck. They would shed anything the minute 110 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: they got free, the minute they had their own ability 111 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: to do so, they would get they would rip off 112 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: a noose or rip off any other restraining up. Okay, wait, wait, wait, 113 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: Bobby Chacon, I want to back that up. Gabrielle van 114 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: Rouge with me, New York Post writer. Gabrielle, you said, 115 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: and as I recall, when the agent got there, this 116 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: is so he didn't call nine one. He called his 117 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: agent about a hate crime where nothing really happened to him. 118 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: He said, he's got to scratch on his face. Gabrielle 119 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: isn't Chacon correct? He still had the noose around his neck? 120 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: What thirty forty minutes later, that'd be the first thing 121 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: I do is get that off of my neck. You're 122 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: exactly right, and that's exactly what happened. He walked into 123 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: the apartment building still wearing the news. Their surveillance video 124 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: that we've review that shows that, and when the police 125 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: officers responded to his apartment. Their body camp footage shows 126 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: Jesse inside of his apartment wearing the news about thirty 127 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: forty minutes after this attack. Now and you know, shortly 128 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: before the clips turned off, because the after to turn 129 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: off the cameras. He claims that he wanted to keep 130 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: the news on as to not disturb the evidence, which 131 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: just again segs a lot of questions. Bobby Chikoon, former 132 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: special agent FBI star Facebook watched series Curse of Acacor. 133 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: You know, you and I've talked about a lot of 134 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: serious crimes where you would, for instance, pull up the 135 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: dismembered body of Alaska Barris to Samantha Konig out of 136 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: icy water, piece by piece, and then you get something 137 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: like this. You got somebody with a new still around 138 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: their neck. The most vile. The most horrible thing for 139 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: an African American is to see I've been told a 140 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: noose like that, or an image of a burning cross, 141 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: or someone dressed up like the KKKR, the devil. The 142 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: devil just oozes out of all of that, all the hate. 143 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: And he picked that one thing. And Bobby Checkon, don't 144 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: you know when he went into that apartment, he turned 145 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: right at the surveillance camera so they could so it 146 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: could catch him with a noose around his neck. Yeah, 147 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 1: when we we've had people that are victims that keep 148 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: evidence of crime because they are that aware of it, 149 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: but they normally keep it at a distance and other ways. 150 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: I've walked into scenes where they go, it's right over there, 151 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: it's there. They don't lose sight of it, but they 152 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: certainly don't keep in contact with or keep it around 153 00:09:48,440 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: their neck. Crime story, he's with Nancy Grace. He knew 154 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 1: it was the brothers, didn't He did not The attackers 155 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: were masked. He only saw one of them. One of 156 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: them approached him from behind and he was wearing a mask, 157 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: and so he did not identify them. He initially had 158 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: a really hard time believing that they could be involved 159 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: because he knew one of them, and we can only 160 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: speculate estimiliations. You know, the police say they have phone 161 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: records of him talking to the brothers an hour before 162 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: the attack, absolutely hour after the attack, and while they're 163 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: in Africa, not after, not an hour after the attack 164 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: that they said. That's completely false. And not only that 165 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: you were hearing our friends at Good Morning America. But 166 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: take a listen to Charlie DeMar's CBS Chicago. Brothers Ola 167 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: and abel osan Daro, captured on Street Orville surveillance cameras, 168 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: told detectives their role in the reported January twenty ninth 169 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: attack on actor Jesse Smillette, according to multiple sources. Those 170 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: sources say paid the brothers thousands to carry out a 171 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: staged attack. In attacks, Molette reported to police saying two 172 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: men slinging racial and homophobic slurs, dousing him in bleach 173 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: and placing a rope around his neck. The Osandaros were 174 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 1: arrested and later released by Chicago police. Simultaneously, the FBI 175 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: is looking into a threatening letter Smolette received just days 176 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: before the reported attack. The words, pieced together by magazines, 177 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: end a drawing depicting a rope around a stick figure's neck. 178 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: Days later, Smolette said that's what happened to him during 179 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: the reported attack. You know, I've worked with a lot 180 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: of cases where there are notes, ransom notes, bank robbery notes, 181 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: all sorts of notes, and at the get go, these 182 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: notes that were sent to Jesse Smolette at Empire at 183 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: the set seem July they were staged. Again. It seemed 184 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: like they were written by a fifth grade girl trying 185 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: to write mystery novel. Gabrielle van Rouge with me New 186 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: York Post investigative reporter, Gabrielle It all started with these notes. 187 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 1: And again I'm not strung out. I'm not upset about 188 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: many aspects of what Smolette did. Nobody was murdered, nobody 189 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: was killed, nobody was maimed, nobody's dismembered. But what he 190 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: has done for all of us crime victims through across 191 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: the country is a huge, huge disservice because this means 192 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: a lot of victims are going to be questioned because 193 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: Jesse Smileett allegedly faked the whole hate crime. How do 194 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 1: you think gay people feel, how do you think African 195 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: American people feel? When he faked it? There living through 196 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: Hublel every day with people really committing hate crimes. One 197 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: of the first cases I worked on in front of 198 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: the Georgia Supreme Court was we didn't even know to 199 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: call it hate crimes. Them, Gabrielle, a string of young 200 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: black males were shot, always within thirty eight, always in 201 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: the same position, across the city of Atlanta, and it 202 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: was hell trying to solve it. That's a hate crime. 203 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: They were raped and murdered. That is a hate crime. 204 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: And they always picked out young black males always and 205 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 1: now Smolette, according to police, capitalized on fear and hatred 206 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,719 Speaker 1: just so he could get attention and get a renewal 207 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: of his contract at Empire and maybe a raise. That's 208 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: what many people think. All of these just allegations. But 209 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: tell me about the fake letter. To start with, gabriel 210 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: ylfon Reiche, Well, he received this letter over at the 211 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: studios w the MBI since the Fox Empire studios are 212 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: in Chicago, and it's it's this letter a with a 213 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: six figure showing a news around its neck and he's 214 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: kind of magazine cutouts using the N word and some 215 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: other slurs, and it was very threatening and it also 216 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: had some type of powder in it, which I think 217 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: they determined to be aspirin um. So already this was 218 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: something that was really alarming, you know. And then and 219 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: then the studio offers, do you want some extra security? 220 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: Do you want this? Do you want that he's a client? 221 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: Follow Did I hear you say aspirin? Yeah? But I 222 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: hear you say aspirin yeah. Okay, that's a fact. As 223 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: many times as I've read this, I must have forgotten that. 224 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: So he threatened himself with aspirin. Listen to CBS bring 225 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: a rate of the brothers home last week only CBS 226 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: to his cameras were all out inside. Among the items, 227 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: investigators walked away with a magazine, a piece of paper, 228 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: along with a writing sample, and a wallet with damps. 229 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: Multiple sources say Smolette was upset the threatening letter didn't 230 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: receive a bigger reaction. That's when he orchestrated the attack 231 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: with the brothers. The rope used by at least one 232 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: of the brothers purchased at the direction of Smolette. Sources 233 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: say the brothers are friends with Smolette Ola playing an 234 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: extra on Empire. Last week. In a televised interview, Smoilette 235 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: had this to say about the scuffle with his attackers. 236 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: He said, this maga country punches me right in the face, 237 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: So I posted the ass back. I noticed the rope 238 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: around my neck, and I started screaming. The brothers, who 239 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: were first seen in grainy surveillance video now coming into 240 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: focus speaking exclusively with me over the phone, saying we're 241 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: not racist, we're not homophobic, and we are not anti Trump. 242 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: We were born and raised in Chicago and our American 243 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: citizens that CBS two Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar Smolette reportedly 244 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: upset his self and to threatening a letter, where, according 245 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: to Gabrielle von Rouge at New York Post, he threatened 246 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: himself with aspirin was not taken seriously, so he went 247 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: a step further and staged the attack. Kathleen Murphy, North 248 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: Carolina trial lawyer, you can find her at NC Domestic 249 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: law dot com. So this is a big crime amongst friends, 250 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: and that is considered domestic when you are related to 251 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: like brothers with a family situation. But I can tell 252 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: you this right now, those two guys, his friends O 253 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: Law and a blows Ocean Dara, They're gonna roll over 254 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: and testify that he paid them for the quote attack 255 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy. Well, well, well, Nancy, is all I can say. 256 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: The evidence is there, The evidence was there, and the 257 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: off to the city. The cost to these citizens who 258 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: have stat taxes is significant and it's only going to 259 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:10,959 Speaker 1: get worse for Justice Smollett because the evidence is clear. 260 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: They didn't do a six count indictment for no reason. 261 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: That's right. Cook County grand jury hit the Empire actor 262 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: with six counts disorderly conduct on Tuesday for allegedly staging 263 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: a hoax, a racist and homophobic hate crime, then lying 264 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: to police about it for this long. I mean, Karen Start, 265 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: you're the shrink Karen Start, New York psychologist at Karen 266 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 1: Start dot com. How do you create a lie and 267 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,719 Speaker 1: then you maintain it for so long? Then you drag 268 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: lawyers and other people into your lie and apparently don't 269 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: even feel bad about it. That's what's called the pathological liar, Nancy. 270 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: Somebody who is not only able to create the lives, 271 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: but they begin to believe the lie they created, so 272 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: they come across very authentically. They can talk to lawyers, 273 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: they can claim their innocence and say that they've been 274 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: wronged when people didn't believe them because they are so 275 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: a depth at being able to come up with their 276 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: lives convincingly. Take a listen to our friends Fox five 277 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: DC reporter Nick smi Night. Those personal trainers are suing 278 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: Smallest Lawyers for defamation the two brothers, saying they're filing 279 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,239 Speaker 1: the lawsuit because Smallest Attorneys lie to the media and 280 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: try to make it appear that they were the culprits 281 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: in a real homophobic and racist attack. Now the suit 282 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: doubles down, saying the brothers never knew small att would 283 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 1: go to the police because he was simply staging the 284 00:18:49,200 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: attack for social media crime stories with Nancy Grace, No 285 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: man nor any woman is above the law. Chicago attorneys 286 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: for the brothers, Ola and Bola Assundario firing a shot 287 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: across the bow of their legal counterparts in Los Angeles 288 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: representing actor Jessie small Let allegations of a fake hate 289 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: crime engineered by small d According to Chicago police, the 290 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: brothers reportedly admitting their involvement in the elaborate hoax, allegedly 291 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: concocted by the actor to raise his profile and earning 292 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: potential before Cook County prosecutors. In a surprise, move through 293 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: the case out. That's right, the case was thrown out. 294 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: You're hearing wg AND news reporter Julian Cruise, But take 295 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: a listen to our friend Robin Roberts at ABC. Why 296 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: do you think you were targeted? I can just assume. 297 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I come really really hard against forty five. 298 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: I come really really hard against his administration, and I 299 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: don't hold my tongue. You don't want to ask. I 300 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: think that's horrible. It doesn't get worse as far as 301 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: I'm concerned. Were you are aware that he made that statement? 302 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: I saw it, and there is no doubt in your 303 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: mind what motivated this attack. I could only go off 304 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: of their words. I mean, who says empire this maga country, 305 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: ties a noose around your neck and pours bleach on you, 306 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: and this is just a friendly fight. I will never 307 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: be the man that this did not happen to. I 308 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: have forever changed, and I don't subscribe to the idea 309 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: that everything happens for a reason. But I do subscribe 310 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: to the idea that we have the right and the 311 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: responsibility to make something meaningful out of the things that 312 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: happened to us, good and bad. Okay, you know as 313 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: much as I love Gabrielle fun Rouge. Karen Smith, Karen Start, 314 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: Bobby Kin, Kathleen Murphy. I could just listen to him 315 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: lying all day long. You were hearing Jesse Smilette lying, 316 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: according to police, straight to Robin Robert's face, straight to 317 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: her face. Did she believe him? I don't know, but 318 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: right at the get go, the story was thin, very thin, 319 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: with a lot of holes in it. Joining me right now, 320 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: a forensics expert Special lecturer, University Florida, host of Shattered 321 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: Souled podcast, Karen Smith. Thanks for being with us. Karen, 322 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: tell me all the forensic evidence you'd like to get 323 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: your mits on. First of all, the rope I would 324 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: like to do. Touch DNA on the rope anybody other 325 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: than the brothers and Jesse Smilett's DNA on that rope. 326 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: That'd be my first question. Second question, document examination, the note, 327 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: the letter. Look at all of that, the ink, the paper, 328 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 1: the glue, the magazine it came from, and then compare 329 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: it with the magazines, stamps and everything found at the 330 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: brother's apartment. Nancy. This case is such a cluster I 331 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: can't even begin to tell you. And what really makes 332 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: me angry is all of the police that did their 333 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: due diligence. They did their work, and this is what 334 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: drives cops nuts. They did the work and put in 335 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: the effort, and they were just thrown under the bus 336 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: last year by the prosecutor. We did our work, hundreds 337 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: and hundreds of hours that could have been dedicated to 338 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: other investigations, all of the forensics, everything that went into it. 339 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: It is maddening. You know, when I think about real 340 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: victims out there. Gabrielle Fondrei's New York Post investigative writer. 341 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: When I think about real victims, victims I've dealt with 342 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: victims I represented in court, all in inner city Atlanta, 343 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: for the most part, victims that did not have a 344 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: voice for themselves. They were too afraid, to uneducated, to 345 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: beat down, to stand up in a court of law, 346 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: be heard. And then Jesse Smillett jumps up, I think 347 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: you'd better rethink that whole quote about holding his tongue. 348 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: He's not one to hold his tongue. I'm so happy 349 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: he didn't hold his tongue because now, oh, I can't wait. 350 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: If they plead this out, I'm going to be so disappointed. 351 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: I want this to go to trial. I want to 352 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: be on the front row and I can't wait to 353 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: watch Jesse Smollett when they playback for the jury these 354 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: interviews with our friend Robin Roberts, gabriel fundraising. I want 355 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: to go back, and I know I said it already, 356 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: and then I moved on to the magazines and how 357 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: we can tie that, how cops can tie those magazines 358 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: to Smelette. But I also want to find out why 359 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: was the case dropped to start with, Let's start right there, Gabrielle. Well, 360 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: that was immediately extremely suspicious because all of a sudden, 361 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: it's an early March morning and news comes across the 362 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: wires that Seth attorney Kim Fox had dropped the charges 363 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: and there was no explanation at all. He didn't take 364 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: a please, he didn't reduce it to a violation. He 365 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: admitted no guilt at all. And it's not often that 366 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: prosecutors agree to do something like that, you know. The 367 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: Cook County State's attorney tried to claim that this was 368 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: based on previous practice, like that they would treat any 369 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: defendants this way. But they're not throwing out charges, they're 370 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: reducing them, they're taking please ninety nine percent of cases 371 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 1: are pleaded down, So this was already extremely odd. And 372 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: then as the case started to unfold, as all the 373 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: public records started to come out, I noticed that the 374 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: that this case was rife with unethical decisions based on, 375 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: you know, on Kim Fox's part. At first, she recused 376 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: herself but didn't appoint a special prosecutor, and then tried 377 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: to say that it was only a colloquial recusal, which 378 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: I don't understand in a court of law how there 379 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: could be such thing as a colloquial recusal. Which is 380 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: why Judge Tuman eventually appointed a special prosecutor, because he 381 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: said the entire her investigation from Kim Fox's office was 382 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: null from the beginning because by appointing her first deputy 383 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: in her stead was completely invalid. You can't you can't 384 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: recuse yourself without actually appointing a special prosecutor. So there's 385 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: a lot of questions why this got dropped, What got 386 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: into her? What got into Kim Fox? I mean, she 387 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: had a great career ahead of her, and then all 388 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: of a sudden she allegedly fudges shows partiality, gets snugged 389 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: up with Smilette's family, what happened. Well, there's a lot 390 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: of political implications here. First, we have Tina chen who 391 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: is a longtime friend of the Obama's who has connections 392 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: with Michelle Obama. She used to work in her office. 393 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: And Tina Chen reaches out to Kim Fox. And Kim 394 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: Fox is a politician through and through. That's just what 395 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: she is. And Tina chenn is thingless in the Smilette 396 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: family needs a little bit of help, and you helped 397 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: them out and she died. She agrees, of course, you know, 398 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: she starts saying, I'm going to try to get the 399 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: FBI involved. You know, I'm going to do everything I 400 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: can to help your family member. This is when Smilett 401 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: was still being viewed as a victim. And to have 402 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 1: you know, a prosecutor that you know, Chicago's lead prosecutor 403 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: get involved with victim's families like that, already, that's already 404 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: an ethical issue. So we have Fox's chief ethics office 405 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: or April Perry come in and say, listen, you know, 406 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: just to play this one hundred percent straight. This is 407 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: a high profile case. We're going to be scrutinized to 408 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: pieces on this. You need to recuse yourself because those 409 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: text messages are damning. So she decides to recuse herself, 410 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: but not actually so it begs a lot of questions here, 411 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, was she trying to curry political favor, was 412 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: she just trying to not jam up a celebrity? Did 413 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: she feel some kind of kinships to Smolett? There's really 414 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: it's really unclear. It's been a mystery all along, and 415 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: that's something that Kim Fox is going to have to 416 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: answer as she enters into her new campaign right now 417 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: for reelection. Mmmmmm, guys, as awesome as you all are, 418 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: and you got to know that, you have to know that. 419 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: I just have to listen to Jesse Smilt again. Listen. 420 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: I went to the subway and got the order. During 421 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: that time, I texted my manager, thinking that he was 422 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 1: still in Australia because he was on an Australian tour 423 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: with one of his other clients, and I say, YO, 424 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: call me when you can. He called me immediately, and 425 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: while he was on the phone, I heard As I 426 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: was crossing the intersection, I heard Empire and I don't 427 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: answer to Empire. Empire and I didn't answer. I kept 428 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: walking and then I heard Empire, so I turned around 429 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,719 Speaker 1: and I said, did you just say to me? Then 430 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: I see the attacker masked, and he said this Maga 431 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: country punches me right in the face. So I punched 432 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: the ass back and then we started tussling. You know, 433 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: it was very icy, and we ended up tussling by 434 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: the stairs, fighting, fighting, fighting. There was a second person 435 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 1: involved who was kicking me in my back, and then 436 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: it just stopped Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. And I 437 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 1: looked down. I see that there's a rope around my neck, 438 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: which I hadn't I had noticed it before you because 439 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: it was so fast, you know what I'm saying. It 440 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: was so fast. How long did this all? It felt 441 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 1: like minutes, but it probably was like thirty seconds. Honestly, 442 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: I can't tell you. Honestly, I noticed the rope around 443 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: my neck and I started screaming and I said, there's 444 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: a rope around my neck. And did you get any 445 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: kind of description of the attack? I gave a body description, 446 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: and I you know, because I saw this, but and 447 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, right here or whatever, But I didn't see 448 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: I can't tell you what color their eyes were. I 449 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: can't tell you. And I did not see anything except 450 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: a second person. I saw running away and the first person, Yeah, 451 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: I saw saw his stature. I gave the description as 452 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: best as I could. You have to understand also that 453 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: gets Chicago in winter. People can wear ski masks, and 454 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: nobody's gonna question that. Okay, I could listen to that 455 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: all day long. That is Jesse Smillette, formerly the star 456 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: of Empire, the hit series making tons of Money, speaking 457 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: to our friend ABC, Robin Roberts with Me, Kathleen Murphy, 458 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: Bobby Chico, and Karen Start Karen Smith and Gabrielle von Rouge, 459 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: investigative reporter, New York Post. It turns out the attackers 460 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: are his friends. One is his trainer and the other 461 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: or the same one is an extra on Empire, the 462 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: hit series. He's a star of, a star of and 463 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: he knows both of them. They're brothers for Pete Saint Gabrielle. Yes, ma'am, 464 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: they are. He knew both of them from the show. 465 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: They had actually both played as extras. One of them 466 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: had started being his personal trainer. He would also get 467 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: drugs for him whenever Jesse wanted. He'd procured ecstasy and 468 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: cocaine for him on numerous occasions, so kind of relied 469 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: on him for that kind of stuff. And you know 470 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: what's really funny about this that I think that you'll 471 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: enjoy is when you hear Jesse speaking on with Robin 472 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: talking about how they punched him in the face and 473 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: how he punched him back. So he actually, according to 474 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: the brothers, and according to police records that I reviewed, 475 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: he had told the brothers that he wanted to be 476 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: able to fight back and that he asked them to 477 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: pull their punches and to let him get a few 478 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: licks in so he didn't look like a total, you know, victim, 479 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: and that he had actually had a chance to fight back. 480 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: And one of the brothers he didn't trust to throw 481 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: his punch, so he told him to not even do anything, 482 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: and he told the other brother to do the majority 483 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: of the punches. So this whole thing, every detail of it, 484 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: every literal punch that was thrown, was calculated and constructed 485 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: by Smolette, according to police. Don't they have Gabrielle fan 486 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: rage the brothers, those Sadar brothers caught on video buying 487 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: the masks, Yes, yes, they were caught on video masks. 488 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: And they were also caught on video purchasing the red 489 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: hat and the rope that was used for the news. 490 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Look, you know, I'm totally a political 491 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: because I hate all politicians. I think they're all lying, 492 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: and I try to just hold my nose and vote 493 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: for the best one, the least offensive one. Every time 494 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: I vote that, I think can just keep the country 495 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: in the middle of the road and we'll all do 496 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: the rest. The Americans will do the rest. Just don't 497 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: get us in a war. Just that. If you can 498 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: just do that, then we'll try to figure But this 499 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: could not have played more into Trump's hands. It's like 500 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: crazy when you pay your attackers allegedly to wear mega 501 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: hats and attack you. I mean, what a big way 502 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: really if you get it on the mail right there, 503 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: Because now that police have determined that the pay crime 504 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: didn't actually happen, it completely feeled the right oh and 505 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: gave them the AMMO that they needed to fight against liberals. 506 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: It's like, look, they're literally making these things up about 507 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: Karen Smith with me, forensics expert host Shattered Souls podcast. 508 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: You've got video surveillance and so many different areas of 509 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: the brothers, the friends of Smolette buying the masks and 510 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: the red hat. You've got video of the attackers, kind 511 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: of like walking off into the distance and not trying 512 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: to hide nothing. You've got Smilette smiling up at the 513 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: camera showing off his news. I mean, there are there's 514 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: a ton of evidence, a ton. You know. I talked 515 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: about touch DNA on the rope. N He wouldn't even 516 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: need that. This case has played out and it was 517 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: tied up with a little pink bow for the prosecutor. 518 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: The cell record, they had, the Internet infos, they had 519 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: all of that video surveillance of the brothers buying masks 520 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: and then admitting to payoff by Jesse Smilett. Listen, if 521 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: I had brought that to a prosecutor as a case 522 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: when I was a cop, they would have kissed me 523 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: on the cheek and said, thank you very much, have 524 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: a nice day. I don't understand it, Nancy. I just 525 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: hate it for real victims. And I'm talking about victims 526 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: of real hate crimes that suffer every day in our 527 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: country because of pure hate. Now this raises another red flag. 528 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: Listen to Jesse Smellet digging his hole with his own 529 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: teeth as he talks to Robin Roberts the phone. When 530 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,719 Speaker 1: did you because as you said it was a packard 531 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: account of the timeline valuable information. When did you make 532 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: that information available to the police. We gave, We had 533 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: to give the phone records, which they didn't originally ask 534 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: for my phone records. They asked for my phone. They 535 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: wanted me to give my phone to the tech for 536 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: three to four hours. I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna 537 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: do that. Not gonna hand over his phone claiming he 538 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: has private things on it when he has been the 539 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: victim of a hate crime. That was well in addition 540 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: to the whole made up scenario, when you won't hand 541 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: over your phone to catch your hate crime attackers. Bobby Jacon, 542 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: former Special Agent FBI, that's way off. Yeah, you know, 543 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: for for an African American person in the United States 544 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: to have a news put around their neck, I can't 545 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: think of short of being killed. I can't think of 546 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: a worse crime committed against you. That has to be 547 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: the single most traumatic event that's ever happened to you 548 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,959 Speaker 1: in your life. And for you not to be one 549 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: hundred and one percent cooperative. He had to take my phone, 550 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: you need it for a couple hours, Great, I'll grab 551 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee. I mean, and if you heard 552 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: his interview, if you're heard, we just heard that long 553 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: awkward pause. He didn't have an answer on why when 554 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: when the interview said why, there was this long awkward pause, 555 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: he just didn't even know. He hadn't even thought about 556 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: coming up with an excuse on why. This has to 557 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,720 Speaker 1: be again, the single most traumatic event that ever happened 558 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: to you, and you're going to not be You're going 559 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: to guard your phone more than help search for the truth. 560 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: It's it's all of these indications very very early on 561 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: in an investigation that tells the police that there is 562 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: something amiss about what we're being told. Kathleen Murphy way 563 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: in that the evidence is there. There's no doubt in 564 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: my mind that this is a clim occurred. I cannot 565 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: believe it was dismissed originally. And by the way, Nancy, 566 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: a lot of people are saying, isn't that double jeopardy. 567 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,839 Speaker 1: Double jeopardy does not attach unless he enters a plea 568 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 1: of guilty or there's a trial that is begun. So 569 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: it is not double jeopardy and the state has the 570 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: right to pursue this charge. The Chicago Police vowing to 571 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: investigate the incident with all its might celebrities around the 572 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 1: world supporting Smalette. He became even more famous. But then 573 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: it all fell apart when it turns out he faked 574 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: the whole thing. What a blow to the police for 575 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: the charges against him to be dropped, But now they've 576 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 1: been resurrected. Gabrielle van Rouge, what exactly are the charges 577 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,720 Speaker 1: their closs war felony, But it's six counts of disorderly conduct, 578 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: which the Illinois Penal Code can counts filing a false 579 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: filly support under disorderly conduct. And based on my reading 580 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: of it, and I could be wrong, I know that 581 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: you used to be a prosecutor here, so you might 582 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 1: have the upper hand over here. But a clous war 583 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: felony in Illinois is three years minimum. It's also twenty 584 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars fine and you'll have to go do 585 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: community service. And previously he was charged with sixteen counts 586 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 1: of felony disorderly conduct. But potential sentence is he facing, Gabrielle, 587 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: He's face You know the way that the penal code 588 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: reads in Illinois. For a class floor felony, you have 589 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: no less than one year in jail in a max 590 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: of three years in jail. You'd also have to pay 591 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,919 Speaker 1: a fine up to twenty five thousand dollars, and any 592 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: line who's found guilty of disorderly conduct has the complete 593 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: complete community service in our community if it is available. 594 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing 595 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: off goodbye.