WEBVTT - Bitcoin Mining with Renewable Energy 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.680 So the big question is this, how do investors like 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.800 us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly, 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.880 the right people that give us the tools and information 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:19.000 we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success. 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.360 That is the question, and this podcast will give us 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.480 the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:28.560 this started. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.200 Market Disruptors podcast. Today we are sitting down with Remarks 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:36.440 City of Pluton Mining, and we talk about bitcoin. We 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:40.080 talk about mining. We talked about electricity waste as what 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:44.640 people say, how renewable energy can solve that, different ways 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:47.559 we can look at and use renewable and energy for that. 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.280 We talk about proof of work versus proof of steak, 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.280 um security, mining costs, and things that are that revolve 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.560 around the security of the bitcoin blockchain. We also get 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:01.959 into some sanctions, regulations and things like that and talk 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:03.600 about the future of big win. It's it's a really 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.560 good conversation I was excited to have with Remark. So 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.600 here we go. All right, Welcome to another episode of 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:13.319 the Market Disruptors podcast. Today we are joined by Ramac 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:17.080 City with Pluton Mining and Um. He's got a really 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:20.199 interesting story, specifically about mining. I know it's a topic 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:22.560 a lot of people have interested in. It's a super 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:26.240 important piece of the entire cryptom ecosystem. So we're gonna 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.600 dig into some mining stuff today. I'm excited to get 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.480 into that and remark, welcome to the show. Thank you 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:33.600 so much for giving us a chance to talk about 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:38.560 our project and having me on your podcast. Yeah. Great. So. UM, 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:40.800 just so we can get a little background, so we 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:42.479 have some context of who we're talking to you. Why 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:44.479 you just kind of tell us a little bit about 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:48.360 yourself and how you got here into this mining space. UM. 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.559 My background generalist thing is is real state and technology 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.800 um UM. I moved to Houston from l A in 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.840 late eighties. I started a couple of thousand means about hurts. 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.000 I helped it was a family situation, and then in 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.960 early nineties I got into technology m I started Tennant 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.920 screen service. In late nineties, I built one of the 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:13.519 first nation white criminal databases. Uh. Fast forward to about 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.880 four years ago, I started doubling into I c O 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.480 S and crypto. Got to consult with a company about 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:22.840 an I c O UM and we ended up actually 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.200 this recommending that they do such a thing. Then I 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:30.960 got into mining. In about the mid two thousand seventeen, 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:35.000 I got to buy some a SIC miners, the famous 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.280 S nine, and I ended up flipping those, uh and 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:44.400 got into hardware. Then in in early two thousand eighteen, 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.720 got into try to mind myself with a company out 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.639 of in Atlanta that was a tool disaster. We ended 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.960 up suing that company in Atlanta, locking the owner out 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.720 of the data center because they were just treating cutomers right. 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.440 And from that you could see it was coming. I 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.519 got into a bigger project. I ended up buying uh 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:11.119 about fifty acres of land in western law hobby thought 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:15.200 about building a project that's more pragmatic, solves the problem 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:20.480 for for mining. Yeah. Okay, so you experienced some of 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.360 the problems firsthand that that's inherent in the industry, and 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:24.919 now you've just decided to kind of go out and 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.359 solve them on your own. It sounds like it's it's 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.520 an attempt, correct Now. At the time you talked about 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:32.839 buying the AASIC miners, the S nine, So for those 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.800 that don't know, S nine miners are used for mining bitcoin, 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:37.800 and so you bought them. But at the time in 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:41.840 ten I guess when bitcoin was running super hot and parabolic, Um, 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:43.560 you thought it would be a better idea just to 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.920 sell the miners than it was to actually mine at 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.760 the time. Yeah, if if you're so, let me just 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.760 say my focus was on on bitcoin mining generally speaking, 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:59.000 because the other the other you know, mining situations were 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.960 not up tomis for long term structure wise. So I 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:04.960 got into the S nine and they were hard to get. 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.119 This is we're talking about summer of two thousand seventeen. 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:12.120 Trying to get miners from bitmin which was the only 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:14.680 supplier at the time, you had a four or five 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.279 months backlog and you have to fight your way to 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.840 get the miners. I got my hands on ordering about 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:24.320 two hundred of them, and I had to pay cash 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:27.800 upfront for it, and it took four months for them 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:31.240 to actually deliver. So it was I mean, they were 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.640 hot items. So by the time they arrived, they were 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:38.320 so over priced. This is late two thousand seventeen. Bitcoin 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.960 was hitting twenty you know, and those miners by the 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:43.640 time they arrived there, I mean, they were they were 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:48.880 valuable pieces piece of equipment. Yeah. So, Um, for those 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.920 that aren't aware, I'm sure most people are with bitcoin, 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:54.600 it's a proof of work consensus mechanism, and the way 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.520 that the coins are brought into existence is through mining. 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:00.600 It's a super important piece of the ecosystem and it's 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:04.800 really about security of that. Now I'm curious for me um. 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.960 You know, with the mining we have with bitcoin, we 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.640 have a difficulty rating that goes up and down. And 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:14.200 when we saw the bitcoin price crashing, you know, down 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.719 into the three thousand, well even if the six thousand ragns, 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.320 there was a lot of talk about this death spiral 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.000 and that you know, the miners would be losing money 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:24.760 and and I think maybe a lot of them didn't 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.600 shut down. What did you think during that time? So 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:33.360 it's a tough situation. I got involved once I understood 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:38.200 what mining was. Miners are essentially those computers that hold 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:42.120 the this real Ledger records. Without the miners that blocked 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.200 in the network wouldn't exist. That's when. And then you 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.279 have the built in algorithm that that are just every 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:52.480 so often about ten days. Uh, And that way itself 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:56.160 gives you time. Now, these a sick miners, they use 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.360 about fifteen hundred wards of power to give you an 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:03.360 idea to bedroom, you know, a condo in southern California 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:08.159 uses about four hundred and fifty per month. These miners 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.880 are fifteen hundred wats. So it's all amount a matter 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:16.279 of cost structure, the degree of difficulty adjust itself based 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.520 on how many miners are connected. So you don't have 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:21.920 to worry about that. You just need to worry about 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:26.000 what your cost of operating these miners are the biggest 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.840 costs being electricity. So if you're running at a low cost, 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.160 people in you know, December of two thousand and seventeen, 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:38.120 we're signing contract to host their miners at fifteen cents 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:42.320 per per killer. What the fifteen cents you're essentially paying 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.480 about two hundred dollars a month for the miners hosting. 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:51.039 That's just not something you can do long term u in. 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.680 In my opinion, bitcoin is going to continue to hit 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:57.239 the higher highs and higher lows, but when it hits 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.159 the lows, you need to be prepared for it. And 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.400 that's essentially the problem. Right. So as the price of 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:07.120 bitcoin came down, the profitability of mining went down as well, 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.080 and a lot of miners couldn't continue to mind because 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.000 their cost of electricity were too high. I think I 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:16.800 saw the average was around five cents or so, does 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.880 that make sense when now or the full cost of 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.960 electricity cost of electricity that you do in mind, five 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:27.240 cents is actually pretty good. In early two thousand eighteen, 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.360 when the prices started to drop, was closer to ten 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.760 to eleven cents. If you got anything below ten cents 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.080 that was a good price. Then you had giggle. What 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.720 who was offering you know, two and a half cents 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.840 three cents to people, which was I mean over the 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:46.160 top all included cost for them that they were selling 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.840 to retail was still seven and a half to eight cents. 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.400 So yeah, And as the people unplugged where they didn't 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.440 have the coverage, that's where you you had the problem 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:02.960 of of basically people unplugging their miners, that in itself 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.360 drops down and it will adjust a degree of difficulty 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:09.720 the distribution for the others. So it's a matter of 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:13.960 it becomes a matter of survival of the best, essentially, right, 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:16.880 and and the survival of the best a lot of it, 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:18.960 like you said, comes down to that cost, and a 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.800 lot of that cost is um depending on where you're located. 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:26.240 Um right, So in southern California and New York. I mean, 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:28.480 you have some of the highest electricity rates in the country. 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.360 I'm in southern California. I know in the summertime I'm 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.240 paying peak like forty cents a kilowat absolutely and then 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.400 if you haven't in some of the areas where you're renewable, 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:39.080 you can get those costs down, like you said with 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.640 giga water places that are hooked up to that. Now, 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.160 the thing with mining is um you know it is 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:49.320 super important to the ecosystem for security. But you have 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:53.600 this whole argument about bitcoin that it's a big waste 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:58.120 of electricity. What are your thoughts on that it is? 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.719 And that's one of the shoes. Not enough people are 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:06.640 using their own renewable source. Most people idea was to 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:11.720 go find which area they have cheap electricity and try 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.920 to grab that, so they're not doing anything to help 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:19.880 the ecosystem and they try to solve any problem. Yes, 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.400 it's using a lot of electricity, But if people start 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:31.240 to use their own produced electricity through renewable source, that's 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.520 where you're going to see a lot of the movement, 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.280 and that's where the people are going to the future 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.560 is going to be. I thought I've seen reports that 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.640 as much as eighty percent of bitcoin miners are already 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:47.280 being ran on renewable energy, well not on their own 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.559 internal they go to use. For example, giggle what claimed 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.680 that they use some renewable because the majority of the 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:58.560 utility companies out there use the hydro power to generate electricity. 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:01.200 That's not what I'm talking about. They you need to 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.040 own your own hydro power, You need to go out 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:08.960 there build your own solar form. If you're saying that that, 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:12.800 it may be true that miners are ran on renewable energy, 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.800 but that's not energy that the mining company is actually 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:18.640 generating on their own. They're buying it from a power 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.480 company which is generating be a renewable Absolutely correct, That's 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.480 exactly what I was trying to say. As far as 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.760 the you know, the argument that that it's a waste 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.559 of electricity, I don't know if I agree with that 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.520 because I don't believe that there is a waste. Right 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.160 is an energy created on demand, So you're a you're 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.280 a customer of the energy company and they're going to 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:42.200 supply it for you as you need it, or you 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.280 can create it on your own. But there's really no waste, 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.640 is there. So let me play the devil's advocate that 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:52.000 the issue is that for utility company, when you're a customer, 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.920 they have to generate electricity at their peak usage. And 0:10:55.960 --> 0:11:00.800 if you're taking that and they're generating electricity, the community 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:06.439 at large doesn't see mining as a benefit to the community. 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:11.840 I mean, it's not a sector that chris tremendous number 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:16.880 of jobs or does anything specifically for the current you know, 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:21.000 society to solve any problems. So the way they see it. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:25.760 Take an example, again, we can take I mean data centers, 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:29.560 bit main bot or giggle what, gigle what. Yeah, they 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.160 had the capacity util to the companies had the capacity. 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:36.400 But then going in there taking that energy for for mining, 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:41.400 you're taking five to ten years worth of that community's 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.960 electrictic growth away from them. And that's where the problem is. 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:50.240 That's why people in general see mining as a waste, 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:56.000 because you're taking electricity away from the community's ability to grow. 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:00.320 Once they run out that peak capacity, then they have 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:06.040 to spend billions of dollars into building more capacity. And 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.520 and and then I guess, as they say, right, one 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.640 man's trash another treasure, right, So we all value different things. 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:15.320 I saw recently there was an article that said bitcoin 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:20.200 mining uses as much power as as as Las Vegas 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.000 something about New Zealand. I mean, yeah, I mean it's 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.360 using a lot of it. Like first say that, but 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.560 but but then you have to go I mean, and 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:29.960 I understand exactly what you're saying, and I agree with 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:34.120 you that the average public doesn't doesn't see the value 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:37.520 in that. UM. I think for us, those of us 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.600 that do understand what's going on with bitcoin, we do 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.160 see the value. So then I would argue that the 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.760 electricity that has spent, the money that is spent, is 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.880 worth it. It's worth it to secure this asset, and 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:50.559 it's worth a heck of a lot more than powering 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:54.119 Las Vegas that a bunch of gamblers go to or whatever. Um. 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.920 I I understand the average public doesn't see that, but 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.760 I think over time hopefully they will. So the year 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.000 is continue to do this, and the way I'm trying 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.200 to I'm trying to make sure the mining community can 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:11.720 see what the average person is looking at. In two 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:15.240 to five years, all these communities are going to have 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:20.839 to increase production of electricity because they're growing internally, and 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.360 a lot of that capacity has been taken by the miners. 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.280 So they're going to be looking at either the electrictic 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.960 capacity for the utail, the companies issue two bonds and 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.800 average you know, residents constituents are going to have to 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:39.360 pay for it two to five years. Every single community 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:44.680 is going to have to increase either capacity or end 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:50.400 void terminate the contract for a handful of companies who 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:55.719 are sucking up enough power for one to five million households. 0:13:55.760 --> 0:14:00.040 And that's the problem coming up. Why would what I 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.640 would the resident of Las Vegas one to approve a 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:09.920 two billion dollar bond for extra capacity if five miners 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:15.360 are terminated and that you know, creates capacity for another 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.960 million household That's where essentially the problem is going to be. Yeah, yeah, 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.600 I can definitely see that. I'm curious though, you say, 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.320 like every community would have to do that? Um, wouldn't 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:29.200 it be? I mean, so one people think that mining 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.760 is really concentrated in China. Um, But I guess you're 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.320 saying every community, So you see it really the mining 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:40.440 becoming really decentralized. That was so. I was actually at 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:45.200 the World Dishtrial Mining Summit that bit men put together 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:49.720 last September October. I was actually one of the speakers there. Um, 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:53.640 let me tell you all the miners from China, Mongolia 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:58.080 over there, and they were all looking for new hosting 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:02.760 space to move their miners. Um there, I think that 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.760 ninety percent of the miners out of China either shut 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:10.720 down or moved out of that space. A lot of 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:16.400 miners are coming onto to us, quite a bit in Europe, 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:19.920 a lot in Australia. So it's getting a lot more 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.640 spread and it's not nearly as concentrated as it used 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.800 to be in China and Mongolia. Mongolia was one of 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:28.880 the I mean, I think at some point that we're 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:32.640 giving out electricity for a penny. Her Killer was right. 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.560 So we're starting to see that decentralization of mining. And then, um, 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:38.720 I would you know, in investing, I always say money 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:41.240 goes where it's treated best, um, and I would imagine 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.000 the same is true. Right, the mining is going to 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:46.280 go where it gets the best rate, So it'll go 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.400 seek out those low power areas of the world, and 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.800 that's where those set up shop. Absolutely, as a free 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:56.760 market thinker, I have to always believe that. I always 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.960 have to believe in supply and demand. Um. Now I understand, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.480 and there's government intervention in price fixing and whatnot sometimes, 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.440 but for the most part, there's always apply in demand. 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.880 So it would make sense that being in southern California 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.040 or New York with the highest electricity rates sets because 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.960 the demand is the highest, and likewise the places with 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.600 the cheapest electricity probably have the least demand. And wouldn't 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.240 that be where the miners would go to set up 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:25.400 and help maybe offset that or augment that. Listen, they 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:27.880 don't see the community doesn't see that asn't offset They can't. 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:29.720 They can offset it for a couple of years, but 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:34.600 remember again, they're taking away from the community's ability to 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:40.400 expand before they have goal to create factory, find another 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:46.160 way to generate more power. Electricity companies the grid has 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.640 to worry about the peak our usage and then when 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.080 it goes to off peak, it's not that they can 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:56.120 just shut it off. They can reduce the production by 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.400 but not by fifty seven percent. So they are going 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.200 to go to all those and they they've tried. It's 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:08.520 not for lack of trying. Texas Bit main body Data Center, Kentucky. 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.840 They even bought it in Niche County where giggle what 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:17.800 was but they never ever got those two to open 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:22.880 up and they saw they used the electricity, but within 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:27.080 two years they got bills and notices and the public 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:31.159 utility commissions void and terminated their contract with a four 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:36.720 x pricing crews. Right yeah, So, um, what you're doing 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.600 and what we're talking about is that you're looking at mining, 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:42.359 but where you can produce your own power. So instead 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.240 of putting the load on the local um the local 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.359 system and making taxpayers pay for that VIH bonds, you 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.520 can just create your own electricity through your own renewables, 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:55.639 mostly through solar exactly, and the trick becomes the peak 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.520 hour production. So the way we try to solve this 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.760 problem is being pragmatic. If you go all solar, it's 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.280 too expensive because at night you don't have solar. Battery 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.200 storage is too expensive still, and if you go all grit, 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:12.440 you're gonna run into a problem two to five years 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:16.000 after starting. So what we did is that we're going 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.359 to produce our own electricity for peak hour in the 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.480 best area of the world for this purpose. We're sitting 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:26.600 in western Mohave in the ninety percentile of solar rate 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:31.479 for electricity production cool weather. Again, this is western Mohabbi 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.440 not the Mohabbi desert everybody has in mind. And then 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.680 at night we become partners with the utility companies. Saturdayn 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:43.479 California Edison one of the most expensive electricity you know, 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:47.760 companies in the world. As you mentioned they are. They 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:54.120 listed price for volume retail on commercial for off peak 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.600 is two and a half since per kilo WA and 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.680 they want to get rid of that excess capacity because 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:02.800 they don't know what to do with it at night. 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:06.440 So let's talk about some of the opportunities that are 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.680 in mining. So UM. For example, you have anywhere down 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.000 from a single person could buy a mining rig and 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:15.359 set it up in their closet all the way up 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:19.199 to um giant institutions setting up, you know, billion dollar facilities. 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.080 Where do you see the opportunity? I mean, do you 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.480 really think there's a good opportunity for individual people to 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.760 get in or really uh is it really more reserved 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.240 for big institutions or can everybody participate in some capacity? 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:35.000 What are your thoughts there? I think there's gonna be 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.360 opportunity for both. You're gonna see a lot specially for 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.440 the for the A six. You're gonna see a lot 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:48.080 of structured basically from the big, big money, and you're 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:52.399 going to see smaller opportunity that are gonna come from 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:56.760 Let's take Venezuela in in In that case, there's a 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:01.680 lot of individuals basically run in using the the the 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:09.399 mining as extra basically income. So there's gonna be a 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:13.080 combination of the two in my opinion. Moving forward, you're 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.280 also going to see with renewables, you're gonna see areas 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:20.640 that are under developed that are going to use more 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:26.680 and more renewable energy to for for production of the mining. 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:33.320 Take areas that are in similar situations like Venezuela right 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:38.199 now with high inflation, who have solar there's no reason 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.760 why they wouldn't be able to use that that energy 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:48.760 to do mining and generate you know, income for the community, 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:52.040 to help the community. I think that's where the future 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.280 is going to be. So you think there's still opportunity 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:57.640 for the little guy to have one or a few 0:20:57.680 --> 0:20:59.960 machines and make a profit all the way up to 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:02.880 you if big institutions wanted to get in. Long term, 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:06.440 there's there's obstunity for everybody. This is not a short term, 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.240 long term absolutely. Now, are you only focused on bitcoin 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:12.720 or do you look at other coins as well. So 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.720 at this point for this particular project, we're just focused 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.480 on Bitcoin because it's structured. As you mentioned it, it's 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.280 already into the ASIC world. There's no change. It's on 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:26.440 based on proof of work. There's no rumors of changing that. 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:30.200 Nobody can tweak with it too much. So for long term, 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.359 if I'm gonna invest x amount of money of my 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:38.040 own money and I want an area that's basically guaranteed 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:41.919 for the next twenty five years, I can make long 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:45.600 term predictions. And that's why we're focusing at this point 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:50.280 strictly on on bitcoin mining. Right. Yeah, as you mentioned, 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.119 they haven't said anything about moving to a pos nor 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:55.760 do I think that would ever even become a reality. However, 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:58.080 it is a reality for a lot of other coins. 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.040 You know, Ethereum has been talking about switch quite a while, 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.359 and it seems like most new projects coming out today 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:08.720 are all pos um. Do do you see that as well? 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:11.840 And does that worry you for like long term you 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:16.480 know ability not for bitcoin. I don't see that happening. 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.400 There's just too too so you think you can find 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:22.520 focusing on bitcoin and not having bitcoin at this point, Yes, 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:25.439 the other ones. I mean there's there's arguments to be 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:27.480 made on both sides for you know, proof of stake 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:32.359 or proof award, but yeah, for proof award and bit bitcoin, 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:39.240 I'm comfortable moving forward where I can see future in 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:44.840 this aspect of the mining with the proof award for 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:51.080 the next twenty thirty years. Right. What about regulations? So, 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:53.760 I mean we have we're seeing just kind of more 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:58.440 and more regulations. We're seeing the US being and most 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:01.280 of the developed countries. I guess do you asked Europe, etcetera. 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:03.560 But the US has kind of being a little bit 0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:06.480 tough on regulations. We've seen with the big Facebook news 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.159 that came out and whatnot. Um, they really want to 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:12.399 control the on rams and off rams for sure. Um, 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:15.600 how how does how does that affect mining? Because you're 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:19.840 basically creating it from nothing, Um, they can't trace that trail, etcetera. 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:23.160 What do you think about that? So I'm gonna say 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:27.000 something that's not too popular in crypto. We need some 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:30.399 some regulation. We don't need regulations like they have in India. 0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:32.480 If you touch crypto, you're gonna end up in jail. 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:37.080 But what what do we need? And why? Listen? I 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:41.399 don't think if if you're a sixteen year old and 0:23:41.560 --> 0:23:43.919 you come up with a wish list and you label 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:48.160 it a white paper, you should be able to raise twelve, 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:53.960 thirteen or a hundred thousand dollars without some consequence to 0:23:54.160 --> 0:23:58.480 you if you don't deliver on what you promised. I 0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:02.080 can agree with that. Yes. On the other hand, you 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:08.119 shouldn't go after a company like take Facebook for example, 0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:12.600 they need to do know your customer. Everybody says just 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:15.000 because you're a member of Facebook that doesn't mean But 0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:19.160 as it stands right now, from what I understand, if 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:24.520