Speaker 1: So the big question is this, how do investors like
Speaker 1: us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly,
Speaker 1: the right people that give us the tools and information
Speaker 1: we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success.
Speaker 1: That is the question, and this podcast will give us
Speaker 1: the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get
Speaker 1: this started. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the
Speaker 1: Market Disruptors podcast. Today we are sitting down with Remarks
Speaker 1: City of Pluton Mining, and we talk about bitcoin. We
Speaker 1: talk about mining. We talked about electricity waste as what
Speaker 1: people say, how renewable energy can solve that, different ways
Speaker 1: we can look at and use renewable and energy for that.
Speaker 1: We talk about proof of work versus proof of steak,
Speaker 1: um security, mining costs, and things that are that revolve
Speaker 1: around the security of the bitcoin blockchain. We also get
Speaker 1: into some sanctions, regulations and things like that and talk
Speaker 1: about the future of big win. It's it's a really
Speaker 1: good conversation I was excited to have with Remark. So
Speaker 1: here we go. All right, Welcome to another episode of
Speaker 1: the Market Disruptors podcast. Today we are joined by Ramac
Speaker 1: City with Pluton Mining and Um. He's got a really
Speaker 1: interesting story, specifically about mining. I know it's a topic
Speaker 1: a lot of people have interested in. It's a super
Speaker 1: important piece of the entire cryptom ecosystem. So we're gonna
Speaker 1: dig into some mining stuff today. I'm excited to get
Speaker 1: into that and remark, welcome to the show. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for giving us a chance to talk about
Speaker 1: our project and having me on your podcast. Yeah. Great. So. UM,
Speaker 1: just so we can get a little background, so we
Speaker 1: have some context of who we're talking to you. Why
Speaker 1: you just kind of tell us a little bit about
Speaker 1: yourself and how you got here into this mining space. UM.
Speaker 1: My background generalist thing is is real state and technology
Speaker 1: um UM. I moved to Houston from l A in
Speaker 1: late eighties. I started a couple of thousand means about hurts.
Speaker 1: I helped it was a family situation, and then in
Speaker 1: early nineties I got into technology m I started Tennant
Speaker 1: screen service. In late nineties, I built one of the
Speaker 1: first nation white criminal databases. Uh. Fast forward to about
Speaker 1: four years ago, I started doubling into I c O
Speaker 1: S and crypto. Got to consult with a company about
Speaker 1: an I c O UM and we ended up actually
Speaker 1: this recommending that they do such a thing. Then I
Speaker 1: got into mining. In about the mid two thousand seventeen,
Speaker 1: I got to buy some a SIC miners, the famous
Speaker 1: S nine, and I ended up flipping those, uh and
Speaker 1: got into hardware. Then in in early two thousand eighteen,
Speaker 1: got into try to mind myself with a company out
Speaker 1: of in Atlanta that was a tool disaster. We ended
Speaker 1: up suing that company in Atlanta, locking the owner out
Speaker 1: of the data center because they were just treating cutomers right.
Speaker 1: And from that you could see it was coming. I
Speaker 1: got into a bigger project. I ended up buying uh
Speaker 1: about fifty acres of land in western law hobby thought
Speaker 1: about building a project that's more pragmatic, solves the problem
Speaker 1: for for mining. Yeah. Okay, so you experienced some of
Speaker 1: the problems firsthand that that's inherent in the industry, and
Speaker 1: now you've just decided to kind of go out and
Speaker 1: solve them on your own. It sounds like it's it's
Speaker 1: an attempt, correct Now. At the time you talked about
Speaker 1: buying the AASIC miners, the S nine, So for those
Speaker 1: that don't know, S nine miners are used for mining bitcoin,
Speaker 1: and so you bought them. But at the time in
Speaker 1: ten I guess when bitcoin was running super hot and parabolic, Um,
Speaker 1: you thought it would be a better idea just to
Speaker 1: sell the miners than it was to actually mine at
Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, if if you're so, let me just
Speaker 1: say my focus was on on bitcoin mining generally speaking,
Speaker 1: because the other the other you know, mining situations were
Speaker 1: not up tomis for long term structure wise. So I
Speaker 1: got into the S nine and they were hard to get.
Speaker 1: This is we're talking about summer of two thousand seventeen.
Speaker 1: Trying to get miners from bitmin which was the only
Speaker 1: supplier at the time, you had a four or five
Speaker 1: months backlog and you have to fight your way to
Speaker 1: get the miners. I got my hands on ordering about
Speaker 1: two hundred of them, and I had to pay cash
Speaker 1: upfront for it, and it took four months for them
Speaker 1: to actually deliver. So it was I mean, they were
Speaker 1: hot items. So by the time they arrived, they were
Speaker 1: so over priced. This is late two thousand seventeen. Bitcoin
Speaker 1: was hitting twenty you know, and those miners by the
Speaker 1: time they arrived there, I mean, they were they were
Speaker 1: valuable pieces piece of equipment. Yeah. So, Um, for those
Speaker 1: that aren't aware, I'm sure most people are with bitcoin,
Speaker 1: it's a proof of work consensus mechanism, and the way
Speaker 1: that the coins are brought into existence is through mining.
Speaker 1: It's a super important piece of the ecosystem and it's
Speaker 1: really about security of that. Now I'm curious for me um.
Speaker 1: You know, with the mining we have with bitcoin, we
Speaker 1: have a difficulty rating that goes up and down. And
Speaker 1: when we saw the bitcoin price crashing, you know, down
Speaker 1: into the three thousand, well even if the six thousand ragns,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of talk about this death spiral
Speaker 1: and that you know, the miners would be losing money
Speaker 1: and and I think maybe a lot of them didn't
Speaker 1: shut down. What did you think during that time? So
Speaker 1: it's a tough situation. I got involved once I understood
Speaker 1: what mining was. Miners are essentially those computers that hold
Speaker 1: the this real Ledger records. Without the miners that blocked
Speaker 1: in the network wouldn't exist. That's when. And then you
Speaker 1: have the built in algorithm that that are just every
Speaker 1: so often about ten days. Uh, And that way itself
Speaker 1: gives you time. Now, these a sick miners, they use
Speaker 1: about fifteen hundred wards of power to give you an
Speaker 1: idea to bedroom, you know, a condo in southern California
Speaker 1: uses about four hundred and fifty per month. These miners
Speaker 1: are fifteen hundred wats. So it's all amount a matter
Speaker 1: of cost structure, the degree of difficulty adjust itself based
Speaker 1: on how many miners are connected. So you don't have
Speaker 1: to worry about that. You just need to worry about
Speaker 1: what your cost of operating these miners are the biggest
Speaker 1: costs being electricity. So if you're running at a low cost,
Speaker 1: people in you know, December of two thousand and seventeen,
Speaker 1: we're signing contract to host their miners at fifteen cents
Speaker 1: per per killer. What the fifteen cents you're essentially paying
Speaker 1: about two hundred dollars a month for the miners hosting.
Speaker 1: That's just not something you can do long term u in.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, bitcoin is going to continue to hit
Speaker 1: the higher highs and higher lows, but when it hits
Speaker 1: the lows, you need to be prepared for it. And
Speaker 1: that's essentially the problem. Right. So as the price of
Speaker 1: bitcoin came down, the profitability of mining went down as well,
Speaker 1: and a lot of miners couldn't continue to mind because
Speaker 1: their cost of electricity were too high. I think I
Speaker 1: saw the average was around five cents or so, does
Speaker 1: that make sense when now or the full cost of
Speaker 1: electricity cost of electricity that you do in mind, five
Speaker 1: cents is actually pretty good. In early two thousand eighteen,
Speaker 1: when the prices started to drop, was closer to ten
Speaker 1: to eleven cents. If you got anything below ten cents
Speaker 1: that was a good price. Then you had giggle. What
Speaker 1: who was offering you know, two and a half cents
Speaker 1: three cents to people, which was I mean over the
Speaker 1: top all included cost for them that they were selling
Speaker 1: to retail was still seven and a half to eight cents.
Speaker 1: So yeah, And as the people unplugged where they didn't
Speaker 1: have the coverage, that's where you you had the problem
Speaker 1: of of basically people unplugging their miners, that in itself
Speaker 1: drops down and it will adjust a degree of difficulty
Speaker 1: the distribution for the others. So it's a matter of
Speaker 1: it becomes a matter of survival of the best, essentially, right,
Speaker 1: and and the survival of the best a lot of it,
Speaker 1: like you said, comes down to that cost, and a
Speaker 1: lot of that cost is um depending on where you're located.
Speaker 1: Um right, So in southern California and New York. I mean,
Speaker 1: you have some of the highest electricity rates in the country.
Speaker 1: I'm in southern California. I know in the summertime I'm
Speaker 1: paying peak like forty cents a kilowat absolutely and then
Speaker 1: if you haven't in some of the areas where you're renewable,
Speaker 1: you can get those costs down, like you said with
Speaker 1: giga water places that are hooked up to that. Now,
Speaker 1: the thing with mining is um you know it is
Speaker 1: super important to the ecosystem for security. But you have
Speaker 1: this whole argument about bitcoin that it's a big waste
Speaker 1: of electricity. What are your thoughts on that it is?
Speaker 1: And that's one of the shoes. Not enough people are
Speaker 1: using their own renewable source. Most people idea was to
Speaker 1: go find which area they have cheap electricity and try
Speaker 1: to grab that, so they're not doing anything to help
Speaker 1: the ecosystem and they try to solve any problem. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's using a lot of electricity, But if people start
Speaker 1: to use their own produced electricity through renewable source, that's
Speaker 1: where you're going to see a lot of the movement,
Speaker 1: and that's where the people are going to the future
Speaker 1: is going to be. I thought I've seen reports that
Speaker 1: as much as eighty percent of bitcoin miners are already
Speaker 1: being ran on renewable energy, well not on their own
Speaker 1: internal they go to use. For example, giggle what claimed
Speaker 1: that they use some renewable because the majority of the
Speaker 1: utility companies out there use the hydro power to generate electricity.
Speaker 1: That's not what I'm talking about. They you need to
Speaker 1: own your own hydro power, You need to go out
Speaker 1: there build your own solar form. If you're saying that that,
Speaker 1: it may be true that miners are ran on renewable energy,
Speaker 1: but that's not energy that the mining company is actually
Speaker 1: generating on their own. They're buying it from a power
Speaker 1: company which is generating be a renewable Absolutely correct, That's
Speaker 1: exactly what I was trying to say. As far as
Speaker 1: the you know, the argument that that it's a waste
Speaker 1: of electricity, I don't know if I agree with that
Speaker 1: because I don't believe that there is a waste. Right
Speaker 1: is an energy created on demand, So you're a you're
Speaker 1: a customer of the energy company and they're going to
Speaker 1: supply it for you as you need it, or you
Speaker 1: can create it on your own. But there's really no waste,
Speaker 1: is there. So let me play the devil's advocate that
Speaker 1: the issue is that for utility company, when you're a customer,
Speaker 1: they have to generate electricity at their peak usage. And
Speaker 1: if you're taking that and they're generating electricity, the community
Speaker 1: at large doesn't see mining as a benefit to the community.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not a sector that chris tremendous number
Speaker 1: of jobs or does anything specifically for the current you know,
Speaker 1: society to solve any problems. So the way they see it.
Speaker 1: Take an example, again, we can take I mean data centers,
Speaker 1: bit main bot or giggle what, gigle what. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: had the capacity util to the companies had the capacity.
Speaker 1: But then going in there taking that energy for for mining,
Speaker 1: you're taking five to ten years worth of that community's
Speaker 1: electrictic growth away from them. And that's where the problem is.
Speaker 1: That's why people in general see mining as a waste,
Speaker 1: because you're taking electricity away from the community's ability to grow.
Speaker 1: Once they run out that peak capacity, then they have
Speaker 1: to spend billions of dollars into building more capacity. And
Speaker 1: and and then I guess, as they say, right, one
Speaker 1: man's trash another treasure, right, So we all value different things.
Speaker 1: I saw recently there was an article that said bitcoin
Speaker 1: mining uses as much power as as as Las Vegas
Speaker 1: something about New Zealand. I mean, yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 1: using a lot of it. Like first say that, but
Speaker 1: but but then you have to go I mean, and
Speaker 1: I understand exactly what you're saying, and I agree with
Speaker 1: you that the average public doesn't doesn't see the value
Speaker 1: in that. UM. I think for us, those of us
Speaker 1: that do understand what's going on with bitcoin, we do
Speaker 1: see the value. So then I would argue that the
Speaker 1: electricity that has spent, the money that is spent, is
Speaker 1: worth it. It's worth it to secure this asset, and
Speaker 1: it's worth a heck of a lot more than powering
Speaker 1: Las Vegas that a bunch of gamblers go to or whatever. Um.
Speaker 1: I I understand the average public doesn't see that, but
Speaker 1: I think over time hopefully they will. So the year
Speaker 1: is continue to do this, and the way I'm trying
Speaker 1: to I'm trying to make sure the mining community can
Speaker 1: see what the average person is looking at. In two
Speaker 1: to five years, all these communities are going to have
Speaker 1: to increase production of electricity because they're growing internally, and
Speaker 1: a lot of that capacity has been taken by the miners.
Speaker 1: So they're going to be looking at either the electrictic
Speaker 1: capacity for the utail, the companies issue two bonds and
Speaker 1: average you know, residents constituents are going to have to
Speaker 1: pay for it two to five years. Every single community
Speaker 1: is going to have to increase either capacity or end
Speaker 1: void terminate the contract for a handful of companies who
Speaker 1: are sucking up enough power for one to five million households.
Speaker 1: And that's the problem coming up. Why would what I
Speaker 1: would the resident of Las Vegas one to approve a
Speaker 1: two billion dollar bond for extra capacity if five miners
Speaker 1: are terminated and that you know, creates capacity for another
Speaker 1: million household That's where essentially the problem is going to be. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can definitely see that. I'm curious though, you say,
Speaker 1: like every community would have to do that? Um, wouldn't
Speaker 1: it be? I mean, so one people think that mining
Speaker 1: is really concentrated in China. Um, But I guess you're
Speaker 1: saying every community, So you see it really the mining
Speaker 1: becoming really decentralized. That was so. I was actually at
Speaker 1: the World Dishtrial Mining Summit that bit men put together
Speaker 1: last September October. I was actually one of the speakers there. Um,
Speaker 1: let me tell you all the miners from China, Mongolia
Speaker 1: over there, and they were all looking for new hosting
Speaker 1: space to move their miners. Um there, I think that
Speaker 1: ninety percent of the miners out of China either shut
Speaker 1: down or moved out of that space. A lot of
Speaker 1: miners are coming onto to us, quite a bit in Europe,
Speaker 1: a lot in Australia. So it's getting a lot more
Speaker 1: spread and it's not nearly as concentrated as it used
Speaker 1: to be in China and Mongolia. Mongolia was one of
Speaker 1: the I mean, I think at some point that we're
Speaker 1: giving out electricity for a penny. Her Killer was right.
Speaker 1: So we're starting to see that decentralization of mining. And then, um,
Speaker 1: I would you know, in investing, I always say money
Speaker 1: goes where it's treated best, um, and I would imagine
Speaker 1: the same is true. Right, the mining is going to
Speaker 1: go where it gets the best rate, So it'll go
Speaker 1: seek out those low power areas of the world, and
Speaker 1: that's where those set up shop. Absolutely, as a free
Speaker 1: market thinker, I have to always believe that. I always
Speaker 1: have to believe in supply and demand. Um. Now I understand,
Speaker 1: and there's government intervention in price fixing and whatnot sometimes,
Speaker 1: but for the most part, there's always apply in demand.
Speaker 1: So it would make sense that being in southern California
Speaker 1: or New York with the highest electricity rates sets because
Speaker 1: the demand is the highest, and likewise the places with
Speaker 1: the cheapest electricity probably have the least demand. And wouldn't
Speaker 1: that be where the miners would go to set up
Speaker 1: and help maybe offset that or augment that. Listen, they
Speaker 1: don't see the community doesn't see that asn't offset They can't.
Speaker 1: They can offset it for a couple of years, but
Speaker 1: remember again, they're taking away from the community's ability to
Speaker 1: expand before they have goal to create factory, find another
Speaker 1: way to generate more power. Electricity companies the grid has
Speaker 1: to worry about the peak our usage and then when
Speaker 1: it goes to off peak, it's not that they can
Speaker 1: just shut it off. They can reduce the production by
Speaker 1: but not by fifty seven percent. So they are going
Speaker 1: to go to all those and they they've tried. It's
Speaker 1: not for lack of trying. Texas Bit main body Data Center, Kentucky.
Speaker 1: They even bought it in Niche County where giggle what
Speaker 1: was but they never ever got those two to open
Speaker 1: up and they saw they used the electricity, but within
Speaker 1: two years they got bills and notices and the public
Speaker 1: utility commissions void and terminated their contract with a four
Speaker 1: x pricing crews. Right yeah, So, um, what you're doing
Speaker 1: and what we're talking about is that you're looking at mining,
Speaker 1: but where you can produce your own power. So instead
Speaker 1: of putting the load on the local um the local
Speaker 1: system and making taxpayers pay for that VIH bonds, you
Speaker 1: can just create your own electricity through your own renewables,
Speaker 1: mostly through solar exactly, and the trick becomes the peak
Speaker 1: hour production. So the way we try to solve this
Speaker 1: problem is being pragmatic. If you go all solar, it's
Speaker 1: too expensive because at night you don't have solar. Battery
Speaker 1: storage is too expensive still, and if you go all grit,
Speaker 1: you're gonna run into a problem two to five years
Speaker 1: after starting. So what we did is that we're going
Speaker 1: to produce our own electricity for peak hour in the
Speaker 1: best area of the world for this purpose. We're sitting
Speaker 1: in western Mohave in the ninety percentile of solar rate
Speaker 1: for electricity production cool weather. Again, this is western Mohabbi
Speaker 1: not the Mohabbi desert everybody has in mind. And then
Speaker 1: at night we become partners with the utility companies. Saturdayn
Speaker 1: California Edison one of the most expensive electricity you know,
Speaker 1: companies in the world. As you mentioned they are. They
Speaker 1: listed price for volume retail on commercial for off peak
Speaker 1: is two and a half since per kilo WA and
Speaker 1: they want to get rid of that excess capacity because
Speaker 1: they don't know what to do with it at night.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about some of the opportunities that are
Speaker 1: in mining. So UM. For example, you have anywhere down
Speaker 1: from a single person could buy a mining rig and
Speaker 1: set it up in their closet all the way up
Speaker 1: to um giant institutions setting up, you know, billion dollar facilities.
Speaker 1: Where do you see the opportunity? I mean, do you
Speaker 1: really think there's a good opportunity for individual people to
Speaker 1: get in or really uh is it really more reserved
Speaker 1: for big institutions or can everybody participate in some capacity?
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts there? I think there's gonna be
Speaker 1: opportunity for both. You're gonna see a lot specially for
Speaker 1: the for the A six. You're gonna see a lot
Speaker 1: of structured basically from the big, big money, and you're
Speaker 1: going to see smaller opportunity that are gonna come from
Speaker 1: Let's take Venezuela in in In that case, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of individuals basically run in using the the the
Speaker 1: mining as extra basically income. So there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: combination of the two in my opinion. Moving forward, you're
Speaker 1: also going to see with renewables, you're gonna see areas
Speaker 1: that are under developed that are going to use more
Speaker 1: and more renewable energy to for for production of the mining.
Speaker 1: Take areas that are in similar situations like Venezuela right
Speaker 1: now with high inflation, who have solar there's no reason
Speaker 1: why they wouldn't be able to use that that energy
Speaker 1: to do mining and generate you know, income for the community,
Speaker 1: to help the community. I think that's where the future
Speaker 1: is going to be. So you think there's still opportunity
Speaker 1: for the little guy to have one or a few
Speaker 1: machines and make a profit all the way up to
Speaker 1: you if big institutions wanted to get in. Long term,
Speaker 1: there's there's obstunity for everybody. This is not a short term,
Speaker 1: long term absolutely. Now, are you only focused on bitcoin
Speaker 1: or do you look at other coins as well. So
Speaker 1: at this point for this particular project, we're just focused
Speaker 1: on Bitcoin because it's structured. As you mentioned it, it's
Speaker 1: already into the ASIC world. There's no change. It's on
Speaker 1: based on proof of work. There's no rumors of changing that.
Speaker 1: Nobody can tweak with it too much. So for long term,
Speaker 1: if I'm gonna invest x amount of money of my
Speaker 1: own money and I want an area that's basically guaranteed
Speaker 1: for the next twenty five years, I can make long
Speaker 1: term predictions. And that's why we're focusing at this point
Speaker 1: strictly on on bitcoin mining. Right. Yeah, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: they haven't said anything about moving to a pos nor
Speaker 1: do I think that would ever even become a reality. However,
Speaker 1: it is a reality for a lot of other coins.
Speaker 1: You know, Ethereum has been talking about switch quite a while,
Speaker 1: and it seems like most new projects coming out today
Speaker 1: are all pos um. Do do you see that as well?
Speaker 1: And does that worry you for like long term you
Speaker 1: know ability not for bitcoin. I don't see that happening.
Speaker 1: There's just too too so you think you can find
Speaker 1: focusing on bitcoin and not having bitcoin at this point, Yes,
Speaker 1: the other ones. I mean there's there's arguments to be
Speaker 1: made on both sides for you know, proof of stake
Speaker 1: or proof award, but yeah, for proof award and bit bitcoin,
Speaker 1: I'm comfortable moving forward where I can see future in
Speaker 1: this aspect of the mining with the proof award for
Speaker 1: the next twenty thirty years. Right. What about regulations? So,
Speaker 1: I mean we have we're seeing just kind of more
Speaker 1: and more regulations. We're seeing the US being and most
Speaker 1: of the developed countries. I guess do you asked Europe, etcetera.
Speaker 1: But the US has kind of being a little bit
Speaker 1: tough on regulations. We've seen with the big Facebook news
Speaker 1: that came out and whatnot. Um, they really want to
Speaker 1: control the on rams and off rams for sure. Um,
Speaker 1: how how does how does that affect mining? Because you're
Speaker 1: basically creating it from nothing, Um, they can't trace that trail, etcetera.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? So I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: something that's not too popular in crypto. We need some
Speaker 1: some regulation. We don't need regulations like they have in India.
Speaker 1: If you touch crypto, you're gonna end up in jail.
Speaker 1: But what what do we need? And why? Listen? I
Speaker 1: don't think if if you're a sixteen year old and
Speaker 1: you come up with a wish list and you label
Speaker 1: it a white paper, you should be able to raise twelve,
Speaker 1: thirteen or a hundred thousand dollars without some consequence to
Speaker 1: you if you don't deliver on what you promised. I
Speaker 1: can agree with that. Yes. On the other hand, you
Speaker 1: shouldn't go after a company like take Facebook for example,
Speaker 1: they need to do know your customer. Everybody says just
Speaker 1: because you're a member of Facebook that doesn't mean But
Speaker 1: as it stands right now, from what I understand, if
Speaker 1: you raise money through a token offering, even one person
Speaker 1: of that money goes into either expanding your current infrastructure
Speaker 1: or operation or into getting into new ones, it wipes
Speaker 1: the utility condition away from that offering. So SEC is
Speaker 1: going to come after you because it becomes instantly a
Speaker 1: security is offered. That to me is the other extreme.
Speaker 1: I think when it comes to raising money, that seems
Speaker 1: to be pretty black and white. You know, now, what
Speaker 1: we've seen is these companies they're raising money for their
Speaker 1: private company, and then they have a separate token offering
Speaker 1: where they're not raising money. Um, I think that's clear.
Speaker 1: I'm more concerned with you know, and you talked about
Speaker 1: your facility in California and I'm in California as well,
Speaker 1: and we had a representative Sherman come out and say
Speaker 1: what a month or two ago and say specifically, quote, UM,
Speaker 1: we need to ban US citizens from owning cryptocurrencies. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, And so I just talk about just like
Speaker 1: those regulations that could um specifically, I'm getting into the
Speaker 1: on and off ramps UM in the k y C.
Speaker 1: And I'm just wondering how that affects mining though, because um,
Speaker 1: you're creating it, you're not buying it. But are you
Speaker 1: Are you seeing any of that or you don't think
Speaker 1: that's really getting into the mining side of thing. So
Speaker 1: the irony of our project, we sit property line to
Speaker 1: property line to a golden silver mining operation. It's pretty ironic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's this is no different than them. They're digging gold
Speaker 1: from the ground, they're generating gold. If they hand that
Speaker 1: gold out to somebody, they should know who they're handing
Speaker 1: it to. Same thing with crypto. If we're generating crypto
Speaker 1: and we're handing it to somebody, we should know who
Speaker 1: they are. We should do our or you know, you
Speaker 1: know your customer M l A and so forth. For
Speaker 1: if we're handing that out to somebody, so that regulation
Speaker 1: has to be there. But Sherman's idea, that's the other extreme.
Speaker 1: No U S citizens should touch crypto. I think one
Speaker 1: thing crypto has demonstrated is how many of these people
Speaker 1: who we thought were pretty smart have no idea how
Speaker 1: cryptocurrency works, what it is, what blockchain is, and hollo.
Speaker 1: They have capacity of accepting that they may not know.
Speaker 1: I've been involved in this thing for four years. I'm
Speaker 1: a newbie by all measures, and I've done technology. I've
Speaker 1: done all these things. Uh, but I also know I
Speaker 1: probably don't even understand fifty percent of it. For any
Speaker 1: of these people to think that they have a couple
Speaker 1: of advisors with whom they spend five minutes to explain
Speaker 1: something so broadly, and then they come up with such
Speaker 1: a black owned white decision, no US citizens would touch cryptocurrency.
Speaker 1: That's just not right. Yeah, it's not right. I agree
Speaker 1: on I agree with that. You know, and you can
Speaker 1: see the policy makers, the legislators, they're usually pretty old
Speaker 1: and um, this is a new technology for young people, right,
Speaker 1: So that's a that's a problem in itself. However, in
Speaker 1: his case, he understands exactly, and he quoted it and
Speaker 1: he said the reason why is because it undermines the
Speaker 1: US dollar and the U that's the security problem. And
Speaker 1: if and the U S dollar could lose its ability
Speaker 1: to sanction countries like Iran. He called them out specifically,
Speaker 1: so he actually kind of gets it, um, and he's
Speaker 1: afraid of that. We saw Christine Leguard from the I
Speaker 1: m F. She said, quote unquote, UM, we need to
Speaker 1: stop innovation because it threatens to disrupt everything. And so
Speaker 1: they get it right, They're like, WHOA, Well, we can't
Speaker 1: have this because it's gonna ruin everything that we have.
Speaker 1: That's the whole point, right, So for bitcoin it is,
Speaker 1: but if they understood it, they would be working on
Speaker 1: trying to use the technology blockchain for things that's i mean, voting,
Speaker 1: property ownership, car registration. It's like blockchain was just meant
Speaker 1: for those. I mean, imagine everybody's complaining about their voting
Speaker 1: fraud whose you know, people are voting to three times.
Speaker 1: If you put the whole thing on blockchain, you're done.
Speaker 1: Nobody can do it. It's immediately there. And that's why
Speaker 1: I have to applaud this state of Delaware. They're moving
Speaker 1: forward with that. They have a law that now a
Speaker 1: corporation the issue shares under blockchain and it has to
Speaker 1: be under blockchain for everybody to see them verify. Those
Speaker 1: are the approaches they should be taking. You know, they
Speaker 1: understand and I'm sure somebody has handed them some sort
Speaker 1: of boiler plate of what it is. Yes, it undermines
Speaker 1: the the US dollar, but that should say something about
Speaker 1: the US dollar. First of all, they can you should
Speaker 1: be working with it. If they think they can stop
Speaker 1: blockchain bitcoin and and the majority of these that's why
Speaker 1: I say they don't understand it. You and I know
Speaker 1: there's no Look at China, they've tried to stop it.
Speaker 1: The it's just not possible. It's not possible. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we can see how well the US has
Speaker 1: been able to stop the flow of drugs. That hasn't
Speaker 1: worked so well. And and the other problem is, you know,
Speaker 1: like he said, Sherman said specifically, Um, it takes away
Speaker 1: our ability to slap sayings is on Iran. So what
Speaker 1: does Iran think about him saying that? Well, Iran is like, really,
Speaker 1: well that's great, then we want it right. And so
Speaker 1: you have these couple of countries that that oppose it,
Speaker 1: but the rest of the country is the world is
Speaker 1: gonna embrace it. And so it's it's very interesting and
Speaker 1: I don't like to predict things, but it's definitely something
Speaker 1: to pay attention to. Absolutely absolutely, Yeah, yeah, good stuff. So, um,
Speaker 1: where the record, let me just add to that. I
Speaker 1: am from Iran, I'm Irani, and I actually gave an
Speaker 1: interview for publication in the wrong so uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's you're a hundred percent right on that aspect.
Speaker 1: Oh well, I should have asked that earlier. So that's interesting. So, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I've had several guests that are international that
Speaker 1: have been lived in one or two countries, come from
Speaker 1: other countries, which I think is great because it gives
Speaker 1: you this this bigger, broader perspective where you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of people in the US are are very kind
Speaker 1: of close minded, haven't really traveled a law up and
Speaker 1: I always have to remind people that this is a
Speaker 1: global thing, and so coming from another country, um, it
Speaker 1: really gives you that perspective. So I'm curious, coming from
Speaker 1: here on, um, do you see this differently? I mean deuced?
Speaker 1: How are they looking at this do you have any
Speaker 1: idea what they've been doing as far as their own
Speaker 1: regulations and how they're viewing it. I'm not very familiar
Speaker 1: from the inside, and I've been around the few countries
Speaker 1: lived there. I moved to the US twice. I grew
Speaker 1: up in France. I sent my teen years there. Um.
Speaker 1: I met a few people, a couple of reporters at
Speaker 1: the World the it main hat world uh usial mining
Speaker 1: in Tipolisi, Georgia. From what I understand that, I mean,
Speaker 1: they have some cheap electristy, but from everything I hear,
Speaker 1: they're running to the same problems as everybody else's because again,
Speaker 1: the country was giving. In those countries, the utility companies
Speaker 1: are government own, they're not private, so they were giving
Speaker 1: the Christy out to to do these things, and now
Speaker 1: they're going back giving those putting those people out of
Speaker 1: business as well. So it's the same cycle over and over.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a catch twenty two. They are implementing regulation,
Speaker 1: it is not really helping them to to bypass the sanctions.
Speaker 1: Uh in a sense that puts it them in it.
Speaker 1: But yes, there it is a loophole if you will. Yeah. So, um,
Speaker 1: I'm curious to know, what is you what what is
Speaker 1: the thing that has you the most excited about this
Speaker 1: space in the near term? Um, maybe in regards to
Speaker 1: mining or something else, like what do you what do
Speaker 1: you see coming down that you're you're focusing on you're
Speaker 1: excited about. I I think it's it's opening up the
Speaker 1: door bringing on these politicians who don't believe in blockchain,
Speaker 1: and they're more focused on those aspects, for you know,
Speaker 1: is helping Ivan bypass sanctions versus how can I get involved?
Speaker 1: How can I make us a better country, our system
Speaker 1: a better system by implementing blockchain? UM, I know there's
Speaker 1: a company out here in Santa Monica that's working on
Speaker 1: on a network of voting on on a not exactly
Speaker 1: a blockchain, it's a semi private structure that they're working on.
Speaker 1: Those are really the part that really gets me excited
Speaker 1: is to see how it's going to help the general
Speaker 1: public and and all the other aspects of the way
Speaker 1: we live, just like the Internet that I'm a dinosaur
Speaker 1: in this space. I'm fifty two, and I think most
Speaker 1: people I meet are less than half of my age.
Speaker 1: They have an experienced first and how the Internet change
Speaker 1: the way we live I remember building my having my
Speaker 1: first business card, handing it to people and I at
Speaker 1: an email and a website on there, and they're like,
Speaker 1: what is this again? So this is the same thing.
Speaker 1: This is gonna change us. I think the voting, car registration,
Speaker 1: public ownership, property ownership, those are really really exciting aspects.
Speaker 1: The shows the general public hord this technology can change
Speaker 1: the way will live a thousand times more than the Internet.
Speaker 1: And you just hope it's all gonna be built on
Speaker 1: the bitcoin, right, Well, no, Bitcoin won't be able to
Speaker 1: handle those things. Bitcoin is going to be, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: the gold standard. I mean, gold is there, but there's
Speaker 1: other things. You don't go buy gold, you know at
Speaker 1: Starbucks pay them in gold, but gold is there. Is
Speaker 1: gold is a layer one based settlement layer, but you
Speaker 1: build payment rails on top of that. Um, and I
Speaker 1: think with layer two and layer three stuff we already
Speaker 1: seen on bitcoin, eventually I can get there. Um, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be the most secure chain in the world. So
Speaker 1: I think eventually gonna at least handle all the high
Speaker 1: value stuff and the coin minor like yourself, I would
Speaker 1: love that there are a couple of side chains that
Speaker 1: are being built to address that. UM, it's it's gonna
Speaker 1: be a longer project. In my opinion. You're gonna see
Speaker 1: some of those others on on a on a sideline.
Speaker 1: You're gonna see some exciting exciting, but there won't be
Speaker 1: the ones where you you process millions of transactions per second.
Speaker 1: This is gonna be more of an overall structure, data
Speaker 1: keeping and things like that with the new site change
Speaker 1: that are coming on board, right right, all right, Well,
Speaker 1: good stuff, really good information about mining and really thinking
Speaker 1: about the power the renewable I can definitely see. You know,
Speaker 1: one of the one of the things that can really
Speaker 1: affect the security of of bitcoin is if miners have
Speaker 1: to stop, if they capitulate, and so you know, the
Speaker 1: producer own power. UM, definitely take some of that away.
Speaker 1: So that's good in the long run. UM. So where
Speaker 1: would people be able to keep up with you? If
Speaker 1: they want to follow you and get more info, they
Speaker 1: can go sign up on Pluton mining dot com. They
Speaker 1: can also look us up on any of the social
Speaker 1: media platforms with the handle Pluton group as one word
Speaker 1: and Pluton To just give you a quick background, this
Speaker 1: is a Pluton P L O U T O N
Speaker 1: and it's the is the Greek god of wealth and finance,
Speaker 1: and ironically the iron in this is pretty interesting because
Speaker 1: it was Pluton p l you t o n, but
Speaker 1: that god apparently got banned in the Greek you know,
Speaker 1: I guess terminology, and they change the name to Pluton
Speaker 1: p l o u t o n to bypass in
Speaker 1: a sense regulatory sanctions, which is interesting. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, thanks so much for coming on. It's
Speaker 1: been talking to you and we'll see you. We'll see
Speaker 1: you later. Thank you again for having me. Hey, if
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